Dirty Taliban
afghanyat
insignificant wrote in message
<1c88e830...@usw-ex0106-048.remarq.com>...
>
>
>I beg to differ. First of all, I had to struggle through the show (in
>reference to a recently aired story against the Taliban on national TV
>in the USA) eyeing the cookies on the table because it was so retarded
>and boring.
>
>Second,it completely misrepresented the situation in Afghanistan. After
>the Russian withdrawal from Afghanistan the greedy warlords implanted
>in Afghanistan by the U.S.A., Russia, Pakistan and India vied with each
>other for rule of Afghanistan. In the process hundreds of thousands of
>civilians were massacred and a solid slave trade was established
>between Afghanistan and Punjab where young girls were kidnapped (often
>on their way to school) and sold in neighboring Pakistan where they
>were to become prostitutes and/or concubines.
>
>Rabbani, Masood, Dostum, Hekmatyar, and the minority Shi'ite groups of
>Hezb e Wahadat, and Abdul Ali Mazari turned Afghanistan into hell on
>earth. Then in 1993 a group of students from the Islamic Madrassas of
>the Pakhtun tribal areas of the neighboring "Pakhtunistan" autononomous
>region in Pakistan (also called NWFP by the Brittish) rallied behind a
>veteran of the Afghan/Russian war, Mohammad Omar.
>
>They chose the name "Taliban" meaning "students" because they had no
>political affiliation other then learning Islam.
>
>They took the country at alarming speed and were the first to give
>freedom of religion to the Shafi'i, Hanbali, and Maliki Arabs residing
>in mostly Hanafi Afghanistan. They were also the first to illegalize
>Shi'ite practices involving cursing the Prophet's (s) companions and
>certain family members. They were the first group in the past 100 years
>to take Afghanistan without a single rape. Not even their opponents
>could document a single case.
>
>Women were initially forbidden from going to school because there was a
>war. We Muslims tend to be really, really stupid and impractical at
>times. Why were girls walking to school in the middle of a war when the
>streets are littered with mercenaries, many of whom were brigands with
>materialistic motives?
>
>A young girl brings a high price in neighboring Pakistan. So the whole
>time while women were being kidnapped, raped, murdered,and sold from
>1979-1993 no one peeped a word or bothered making episodes on
>television.
>
>I never saw an episode of Diff'rent Strokes in which Arnold complained
>to Mr. Drummond about the Russian invasion of Afghanistan or the
>sweeping violations of human rights therein.
>
>Now a group comes and take over 90% of the country at a rate which no
>one understands with NO foreign support. They have eliminated crime
>completely in all the territories they have stabilized under their
>control. Even their worst opponents throughout the world can't document
>a single rape case.
>
>In their despair to find such a case the Hazaras (Mongoloid shi'ite
>minority) reported a case in which a nurse complained of stomach pains
>and they said she must have been raped. Her name was not recorded nor
>was the incident even documented. It was a word of mouth story but it
>is so rigorously circulated.
>
>So how come I never heard anything for over 10 years when Afghanistan
>was being raped, murdered and plundered.....but now that Shari`ah is
>established and women must wear chedor (full body Persian garment) and
>stay indoors (only in the enemy frontier provinces) everyone is up in
>arms? Why is that?
>
>So the 15 years of rape, plunder and murder were okay...but
>noooooooooooooooooooo those darned extremist Tally-bans are tryin to
>keep women from going to school! How dare they! [sarcasm]
>
>Have we all forgotten what an Islamic state would look like? Men would
>grow beards and not look so GQ. They would have to lower their gaze in
>the street and not talk so freely with women. Women would be covered
>from head to toe. Sorry if you don't like that...but that is
>Islam..take it or leave it..no apologies.
>
>To quote that blonde lady who plays the mother in that show 7thHeaven,
>"They are literally wiping out the female population of Afghanistan".
>
>Excuse me? This is such a massive distortion of the facts I am sure it
>even made the CIA laugh. The only people complaining about the
>situation in Afghanistan are the Hazara and other shi'ite minorities
>because they are forbidden to play their curses of Abu Bakr, Omar and
>Othman on loud Speakers in the streets on Friday. They can't beat
>themselves bloody during Moharram anymore. They can't have 1 hour long
>"muta`ah" temporary marriages. These rules have really ticked them off.
>They are the only ones complaining aside from the modernists and
>secularists in Afghanistan.
>
>When I went for Hajj in 98 I spoke with many Afghans (pashtoons as well
>as farsi-wans) who praised the Taliban and said they are the best thing
>that happened to Afghanistan. They had no reason to fear telling me the
>truth in Saudi Arabia where there was no threat of repurcussion. They
>are the only leadership on earth who have literally said "to hell with
>you" to the entire world in order to protect their Muslim brother whom
>we all know has been living there for the past few years all the while
>eagerly hunted by the CIA, FBI, Mossad, ISI, etc. They have endured
>tomahawk missles, constant infiltration and interference, the foreign
>support of their enemies (recently U.S. and Israeli commandos landed in
>Pakistan to train the enemies of the Taliban...documented fact),
>complete and absolute isolation from the rest of the world including
>the few gulf countries that initially supported them, simply to defend
>and protect one man....who isnt even that rich compared the U.S. and
>gulf countries whos support they completely threw away without
>hesitation.
>
>If we Muslims don't know the facts and don't defend the soldiers of
>Allah who live only to make Allah's law supreme on earth.....who will?
>Allah says in the surat al Hujoorat that when you hear news...verify
>it...lest you cause injury to the ummah without knowledge.
>
>was-salaamu `alaykum.
>Shibli
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network
*
>The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
>
Mujahid
Most people fail to understand is that Afghanistan is a big problem for US,
recent visit by Jewess Albright to Khazikistan is to help them defend
against the fundamentalism and terrorism, an euphemism for Islam. Why
Albright rejected establishment of criminal courts to convict Russians, who
committed war crimes ? because America does not want another Afghanistan
there and hoping Russia will eliminate Chechnya's Islamic threat. US is very
much interested in oil from that region as an alternative to traditional
sources, sort of not to have all the eggs in one basket and Islam is a
threat to US interest. We Muslims need to unite soon, I think Afghanistan,
Pakistan and Chechnya should form immediate federation to start with.
American media services are just an extension of US foreign policies and
they would not say any thing which might jeopardize the situation, so
accepting US media to present any fact is like waiting for mangos to grow in
apple tree.
Peace,
Mujahid
"afghanyat" <afgh...@primus.com.au> wrote in message
news:38fc...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
A brief lookback to history. President Zia ul Haq was a very religious person. I
am not saying he was perfect. Every person has his weaknesses. But Zia ul Haq
was by far, the best ruler that Pakistan has ever had to date.
President Zia ul Haq had a wish. To form a confederation of states including
Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Central Asian republics which had just been
created, and stretching as far as Turkey. (By confederation, I mean somewhat
what is happening today like in Europe, i.e., the European Union). President Zia
ul Haq once said, "It is my wish, that I pray in the mosque of Kabul and the
people of Afghanistan pray in the mosque in Islamabad." With the vast popularity
of Zia among the Pakistani People and the people of Afghanistan, he was sure to
succeed. Also, politically, he was much stable than other rulers. The US, though
it was supporting Zia only on the basis of demolishing the communist forces,
didn't want to be portrayed as a country supporting a military leader. They
didn't know what to do. On one hand, they wanted to help the Afghanistan
Mujahideen to demolish the communist russia, on the other hand, they knew that
once russians are defeated, the mujahideen would come to power and that's what
they didn't want, after seing the revolution in Iran, the United states didn't
want another such revolution in Afghanistan. Probably, the US biggest helper in
gettting rid of Zia ul haq was benazir bhutto, whom they thought must be eager
to get rid of zia for the death of her father.
Whathever the method, it is 100% certain that Zia was killed by the Americans
with the prior knowledge of opposition party leaders, probably Benazir Bhutto.
President Zia's plane was not an accident. Of the 31 passengers, autopsy on only
1 passenger was carried out and it was found that the passenger had died
"before" the plane had actually hit the ground due to poisoning. Traces of
poisonous gas were found on the landing site. All this leads to one thing. That
the passengers of the plane (obviously also including the pilot) were killed
before hand by letting poison gas loose in the plane due to which, the plane got
out of control and crashed.
So much is being done against us but us muslims are still dreaming. It is time
that we realize the danger surrounding us and unite.
Allah Hafiz!
Ünver
oppression? As a Muslim, I am disgusted that the Taliban
claim to be working in the name of Allah. Where in the
Qur'an does it say that women should be excluded from
society, or imprisoned behind shapeless and dehumanising
veils? Now that women in Afghanistan are not permitted to
study, and male doctors are forbidden from treating female
patients, what will happen in the future when women become
ill?
If the Taliban have brought certain benefits to
Afghanistan, then these are far outweighed by the violence
and oppression that they represent. Like Saddam Hussein,
these twisted, power-hungry sinners are destroying their
people, and ruining the name of Islam in the process.
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Mujahid
Below is the post, I tried posting earlier but some how it did not appear on
this NG, I am against oppression, Taliban are no different, but question is
how much do I know about them or its just propaganda. Read the link below,
it will give you more insight in to that conflict first hand.
Peace,
Mujahid.
This is good article, witty and catching , best I have read in years. I am
posting this because I heard lot of Muslim brother's cocked eye objections
of Talibans, author clears up lot of points and present the situation in the
pre-text of war in Afghanistan, his view about Taliban can be summed up in a
sentence - "The more I learn about the Taliban and Kabul the more I
understand that the choice is either the Taliban or more chaos".
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/dp/dp_a1a.html
Peace,
Mujahid.
"afghanyat" <afgh...@primus.com.au> wrote in message
news:38fc...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
Come to Afghanistan and ask the people themselves if they are happy with the rule or not. You hear what the media (controlled by outside forces) is saying.
Listen to what the Taliban are saying.
> As a Muslim, I am disgusted that the Taliban claim to be working in the name of Allah. Where in the Qur'an does it say that women should be excluded from
> society, or imprisoned behind shapeless and dehumanising veils?
Where in the Qur'an does it say that you let your women loose so that they can be raped and where in the Qur'an does it say that you let your women walk
around naked and where in the Qur'an does it say that women should abolish purdah?
> Now that women in Afghanistan are not permitted to study, and male doctors are forbidden from treating female patients, what will happen in the future when
> women become ill?
In a country where even male children have no resources to study, how can you expect girls to study. People are dying of food and hunger over there and you
people are talking about Education??? Will a hungry man want to fill his stomach or would he want books lying around him?? What if you were in the same
position??
Instead they are being hit by sanctions, they have been boycotted.. What will happen tot he future of Afghanistan when everyone is bent upon destroying it
and boycotting it? Why don't you look it that way? And why are you blaming the Taliban because of all of this? weren't the same problems being faced before
the TAliban? where were all your human rights stuff at that time?
> If the Taliban have brought certain benefits to Afghanistan, then these are far outweighed by the violence and oppression that they represent. Like Saddam
> Hussein, these twisted, power-hungry sinners are destroying their people, and ruining the name of Islam in the process.
How can you say that Taliban are ruining the name of Islam? Pakistan is promoting vulgarity in its programs, isn't that ruining the image of Islam? Egypt has
banned all islamic organisations, isn't that ruining the image of Islam? Turkey has banned the wear of hijab and purdah, isn't that ruining the image of
Islam? Saudi Arabia's Royal family are crooks, isn't that ruining the image of Islam? Look what Indian Muslims are doing in their movies, isn't that ruining
the image of Islam?
What do you think Islam is? Promotion of those things which I have mentioned above.
afghanyat
1st of all i do not support them
i just believe they are a better alternative to the northern alliance
who are to blame for the emergence of the taliban any way
if they had not been at each others throuts from
1991 2 1996
today there would be no taliban
Ünver wrote in message <09a7dd6d...@usw-ex0108-061.remarq.com>...
>How can you defend a regime that rules by terror and
>claim to be working in the name of Allah. Where in the
>Qur'an does it say that women should be excluded from
>society, or imprisoned behind shapeless and dehumanising
>study, and male doctors are forbidden from treating female
>patients, what will happen in the future when women become
>ill?
>
>Afghanistan, then these are far outweighed by the violence
>and oppression that they represent. Like Saddam Hussein,
>these twisted, power-hungry sinners are destroying their
>people, and ruining the name of Islam in the process.
>
>
Shamseddin Mohammad
The Taliban are surely not good, but although I hate them too, I must tell
you that the reason for their strenght lies in the mistakes and failures of
the various Mudjahedin factions after the end of the Jihad. I don´´ t want
to go too much into details because there are many different theories about
who commited which crime on whom and why.
However it can be stated objectively that the situation under the ousted
government was not satisfactory.
In Afghanistan will happen what happened in Iran. Once there is no more
opposition the people will see that the Taliban are lacking of any
conception how to rule this country. It´s interesting that the peace there
is due to a reign of terror just like the calm in Iran. When people know
what the Taliban did to civilians in Mazar i Sharif or Bamyan they won´t
dare to do any protest against this brutal rulers. The same is in Iran. When
the students were badly beaten up by the vigilantes and fundamentalist
groups they became anxious and started to fear the consequences.
It is brazen to claim that the people like the Taliban. They are afraid of
them. Recently they executed 26 people in one city. Nobody knows for what.
If you ask Iranian pilgrims in Mecca about the iranian regime, they will
surely praise the regime. Otherwise they can kiss their ass good-bye after
returning to Iran. Therefore they are very cautious. The same thing is valid
for afghan pilgrims.
Taliban supporters deny every charge and complaint against the Taliban and
say this is a conspiracy. The same people refer to organizations like
Amnesty Int. or UN when it comes to condemn Israel, but when these
institutions condemn the Taliban they become liars and anti-islamic
propagandists.
Taliban cannot be good. They have heavily contributed to the further
destruction of Afghanistan and they still insist on the military situation.
Plus the Taliban movement contains many non-afghans and many ultra
pashtoonist elements. There is nothing wrong with pashtoonism, but the
Taliban use it as a device of racism, accurately observed during the days
after the occupation of Bamyan, Mazar or last years in the Shamali plains.
"Ünver" <mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:09a7dd6d...@usw-ex0108-061.remarq.com...
Ünver
seclusion of women, it doesn't mean that I advocate female
nudity! Don't put words into my mouth, or twist my meaning.
A woman can be modest without being locked away. And my
point regarding education was a simple one: if women cannot
become doctors, and male doctors cannot treat female
patients, then what will happen to ill women? Does God want
them to die? Of course not! How would you feel if a female
loved-one was on her death-bed because the law did not
allow for her to be treated?
As you point out, there are many regimes around the world
that are polluting the name of Islam. But the Taliban is
surely one of the worst. If you can provide me with a
passage from the Qur'an that states that women should be
locked away and left to die if they become ill, then we can
talk again!
Ünver
philosophy is irrelevant here. What matters is that this
cruel "Islamic" regime is ruining the lives of those it is
supposed to represent.
afghanyat
did i mention that
watandar wrote in message <38FF84AD...@aol.com>...
>How could you suggest "the better of two evils," philosophy, Afghanyat?
>
>I miss the pre-Taliban days when the buz ,hazaras, gelam jams, etc. would
kill 60,000 people in Kabul and slash women in half in broad daylight.
Mujahid
w'alaikum salaam,
First of all Its hard to believe what you wrote, no offence intended. I know
some Afghans, to most only thing matters is their alliance with their
former friends and tribal allies then what goes with the country, there
could be many reasons for their so-called forced migration, if indeed it
really happened. If I to presume that 200,000 people did move to Northern
Alliance held territory, then we should also not forget many who moved back
to Afghanistan from other regions due to realative peace. Talibans are made
of local ethnic groups, this can not be a case of ethnic cleansing, it's
preposterous. If I concur Pakistan I surely will kill a lot of people, like
politicians and local landlords, does that mean ethnic cleansing, my actions
might be considered extreme, they can not be constituted as ethnic
cleansing. I posted an article in same thread, by an American tourist who
went to front line and his account of what he saw and how people felt about
Talibans, it's a good read and must for a moderate anti-Taliban. Any how,
most anti-Talibans I know usually post empty rhetoric, instead of presenting
some material, am I to believe you, or the person who been to front line, is
he too affected by Tailban propaganda, may be they are harsh, may be they
take extreme measures to curb uncivil elements, but again we are not talking
about a suburb in California. Like the author said "harsh times bread harsh
men".
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/dp/dp_a1a.html
Peace,
Mujahid.
"Shamseddin Mohammad" <Sh...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:8dnti7$r...@c4.hrz.uni-giessen.de...
> Salam alaikum brother,
> we all cannot judge the situation correctly, but on question remains:
> Assuming that the people who have the best information and most un-biased
> information about the Taliban are the Afghans themselves (those who really
> live there). Why, if the Taliban are really so good, do the people flee
> their areas and prefer to live in the refugee camps of the northern
> alliance? This happened last year in the Shamali plains some 70 Km North
of
> Kabul. 200000 people fled to the opposition held Panjshir Valley, many of
> them even took part in Massoods deadly counter-attack against the militia.
I
> think the news of Talibans goodness should at least have reached the
people
> who live so close to Kabul.
> As a matter of fact they have carried out a lot of mass executions and
acts
> of ethnic cleansing after conquering new areas. The only people who
remained
> are either Taliban supporters or they fear them and don´t dare to protest.
I
> can again and again repeat the example of Iran. Many years long the
Islamic
> republic tried to convince the world of the happiness and satisfaction of
> the people in Iran. They even managed to rally demonstration of hundreds
of
> thousands to show off for their own purposes. We know that this was a lie
> and the evidence came when the people had the chance to take part on the
> first quasi-democratic elections two years ago.
> Therefore, I tell you that you should not believe the Taliban propaganda
for
> example by quoting afghan pilgrims in Mecca, who say they love the Taliban
> and similar crap.
> Mujahid <re...@pdq.net> wrote in message
> news:15B6FD3BA3D83B55.F3ADA0D6...@lp.airnews.net...
Ünver
dress (even without the accompanying Western "propoganda")
is enough to convince me that that the Taliban are truly
evil.
Peter Amschel
like that for centuries.
Also, there are several testimonials on the web from women touting the
advantages of the garment. I don't have the cites right now because I
am changing computer systems, but I could find them on request. For one
thing, they say that the garment eliminates the categorization of women
by age and body type.
In article <001d40e8...@usw-ex0109-069.remarq.com>,
mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid says...
Observer
before you rule against the Taliban,make sure the info you got
is genuine.Western propaganda machinery have been known in the past
for disseminating false news to discredit regimes not to their liking.
Whilst the press reports could be genuine,until we observe with our own eyes
or have reporters who fit the the description of being "just" as required
by the Syariah laws of testimony,it is better if you begin your sentence as
such:
"If the reports of the Taliban is true...then...."
You never know,you might killing your own brethren due to believing in a lie
spread by your own enemy.Don't you think it is worthwhile to be cautious.
Ünver <mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid> wrote in message
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
afghanyat wrote:
> huh?
> did i m
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
afghanyat
get that kemal attaturk thinkin of ur head
buddy boy
Ünver wrote in message <001d40e8...@usw-ex0109-069.remarq.com>...
mafis
>Just seeing the way in which Afghan women are *forced* to
>dress (even without the accompanying Western "propoganda")
>is enough to convince me that that the Taliban are truly
>evil.
Dear Ünver,
please do not forget that in Afghanistan is war since more than 20 years. Let
the afghans decide, and try to keep fair.
according your name you are Turkish. Well aren`t there hizbullahis in Turkey?
Wasn`t the Kurdish language forbitten between 1926-1994. Was it not forbitten to
use Kurdish names for children. Are most publications in Kurdish not suppressed?
have a look at the human right record in Turkey. The taliban are not forbitting
any languages or cultures. well it seems that pakhtunwali is more human than
Mustafa Kemals ideology.
watandar
This Unver guy dismissed your idea that the Talibs were at least better than
the warlords who murdered and plundered Kabul. I, in response, pretended to
admonish you and made the sarcastic remark that I miss the 'good old days' of
raping and killing under Masood, Hazaras, Dostum etc.
Sorry for the confusion!
afghanyat wrote:
> huh?
> did i mention that
> watandar wrote in message <38FF84AD...@aol.com>...
> >How could you suggest "the better of two evils," philosophy, Afghanyat?
> >
> >I miss the pre-Taliban days when the buz ,hazaras, gelam jams, etc. would
> kill 60,000 people in Kabul and slash women in half in broad daylight.
> >
> >"Ünver" wrote:
> >
> >> Fair enough. But surely the "better of two evils"
> >> philosophy is irrelevant here. What matters is that this
> >> cruel "Islamic" regime is ruining the lives of those it is
> >> supposed to represent.
> >>
Ünver
over, increasing numbers of educated women in
Afghanistan's cities realised that modesty in dress could
be achieved without total veiling. At least they had a
choice. If what you say is true, then the Taliban would not
need to enforce a dress code.
And your assertion that the veil stops discrimination is
ridiculous! The veil is an instrument of discrimination,
designed to exclude women from playing an active role in
society.
Ünver
Kemal. As far as I'm concerned, he is an enemy of Islam.
My issue is not with headscarves, although I do feel that
they are unnecesary outside of holy buildings. But veils
which cover the face are an entirely different matter: they
cut women off from the world, and de-humanise them. It is a
distortion of Islam to *force* women to cover their heads
and faces. The Qur'an promotes modest dress, and
specifically mentions the concealment of bosoms. It says
nothing more than this. Indeed, Islam speaks of the
*equality* of the sexes, and grants women a multitude of
rights and freedoms.
If women *want* to wear veils, then fair enough. That is
their choice, and they shouldn't be prevented from doing
so. But in Afghanistan and other such countries, severe
veiling is forcefully inflicted on all. Muslims need to
realise that the veil is a matter of choice, not a demand
of Allah.
Ünver
government. My country's treatment of the Kurds has been
terrible. Kemal's influence on Turkey has also been
extremely harmful. Just because the Turkish government acts
as it does, it doesn't mean that I agree with it. I am an
individual, and people should not assume that my race
dictates my political allegiances.
In the same way, the Taliban do not represent the will of
all Afghans. It is the Taliban - and not *I* - that is
trying to stop Afghans from deciding for themselves. After
all, a government that fought its way into power and rules
by terror cannot be all that popular.
Ünver
that the "better of two evils" philosophy that so many
apologists use is infact irrelevant: what matters is the
*status quo* in Afghanistan. There's no point in looking to
the past for comparisons.
Peter Amschel
mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid says...
> The veil is an instrument of discrimination,
> designed to exclude women from playing an active role in
> society.
>
Womens' natural use of themselves is in the role of wife and mother.
Here's one of those sites where the women praise the veil:
'
http://www.faklen.dk/en/the_torch/veil.shtml
afghanyat
are dimmed to repeat it in the future
Ünver wrote in message <02000cac...@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com>...
indigo
--
"Peter Amschel" <amsc...@pe.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.136bff0dc...@news.pe.net...
> In article <1c31fd54...@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com>,
> mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid says...
> > The veil is an instrument of discrimination,
> > designed to exclude women from playing an active role in
> > society.
> >
>
> Womens' natural use of themselves is in the role of wife and mother.
>
My last two dentists were women and that was natural enough for me. The
first one was Moslem. I never realized that some followers of Islam were so
retarded until the Taliban became a news item. Should women learn to read so
they can educate their children or are you against that too?
indigo
--
"Peter Amschel" <amsc...@pe.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.136bff0dc...@news.pe.net...
> In article <1c31fd54...@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com>,
> mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid says...
> > The veil is an instrument of discrimination,
> > designed to exclude women from playing an active role in
> > society.
> >
>
> Womens' natural use of themselves is in the role of wife and mother.
>
> Here's one of those sites where the women praise the veil:
> '
> http://www.faklen.dk/en/the_torch/veil.shtml
>
Which includes the quote:
Secondly, the women are equally respected and appreciated whether they
choose to be housewives or professional women.
Try another reference next time!
Ünver
sexes can achieve their marital and parental obligations
without sacrificing their education or careers.
Shamseddin Mohammad
thinking in Iran and Afghanistan
"afghanyat" <afgh...@primus.com.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3901...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Shamseddin Mohammad
Kemalism with Taliban.
One must be blind to do that.
How much can you ignore facts?
watandar
Taliban offer education for women in Afghanistan, one of the poorest,
war-destroyed countries in the world while Clinton, the Russians, Iran, India
are constantly trying to overthrow them?
indigo wrote:
> --
>
> "Peter Amschel" <amsc...@pe.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.136bff0dc...@news.pe.net...
> > In article <1c31fd54...@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com>,
> > mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid says...
> > > The veil is an instrument of discrimination,
> > > designed to exclude women from playing an active role in
> > > society.
> > >
> >
> > Womens' natural use of themselves is in the role of wife and mother.
> >
Ünver
afghanyat
then we wont be able to harm u
lolllll
yama wrote in message <20000424212528...@ng-fp1.aol.com>...
>>It would be good when there were a little bit of that "Kemal Attaturk"
>>thinking in Iran and Afghanistan
>
I
>think we should avoid killing Armenians, if at all possible.
>
>
>yama
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>my stupid website
>http://members.aol.com/yrahyar/index.html
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
you ever heard EVEN ONE Good thing about them through the media???
Why Not??? Because throughout the world, the western media has a monopoly. The Taliban are lagging behind in the media war because all of the infrastructure
of the country had been ruined by your wonderful leaders whom you support.
That's why the Taliban are mostly unable to counteract with the war on the technology front.
"Ünver" wrote:
> Just seeing the way in which Afghan women are *forced* to
> dress (even without the accompanying Western "propoganda")
> is enough to convince me that that the Taliban are truly
> evil.
>
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
is the custom and culture of that society. Even before the Taliban, these dress code was strictly observed. Even in Pakistan, There are numerous places where
women are wearing these burqas. Why don't you blame Nawaz Sharif or Parvaiz Musharraf or whathever for doing this??? And I know you won't blame them. Because
all of them are the wests pet dogs and they won't stand up to anybody. And even if you force them to change this custom, they won't be able to because this
is not a thing which has been enforced, it is a custom of the area.
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
himself had said that the Taliban know that they are taking very strict actions
against the people. And he himself said that all these actions are temporary and
they will be observed unless and until the situation in Afghanistan comes back
to normal. What more do you want from these guys?? He said that we have stopped
women from working in public places because for the sake of their own safety.
>
Ünver
that it nullifies its bad side. Hitler was, for example,
extremely kind to animals: does this excuse him for
murdering millions of people?
Whatever good the Taliban may do, the fact is that their
oppression of women *alone* far outweighs it.
Ünver
Afghanistan. However, in the years before the Taliban, some
city women were abandoning the shapeless chador (I'm not
sure if that's the correct name) and beginning to show
their faces. What I am saying is that now, there is no
choice: all women are *forcibly* made to wear full veils.
kick_a...@my-deja.com
Ünver <mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid> wrote:
> Just because something has a good side, it doesn't mean
> that it nullifies its bad side. Hitler was, for example,
> extremely kind to animals: does this excuse him for
> murdering millions of people?
>
> Whatever good the Taliban may do, the fact is that their
> oppression of women *alone* far outweighs it.
>
What oppression of women? And how is the good they have done
"outweighed" by their policy towards women?
You better have an answer, Jew.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
why? Are city women made of something else or what???
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
is required to accomplish this. The city dwellers of Afghanistan were so "Modern" that they used to wear mini skirts. Islam says that a woman should be in
Purdah even from her husband's brother. Yet today's women defy this, and walk around like you have seen everywhere. Is this a healthy thing to do?
"Ünver" wrote:
> Just because something has a good side, it doesn't mean
> that it nullifies its bad side. Hitler was, for example,
> extremely kind to animals: does this excuse him for
> murdering millions of people?
>
> Whatever good the Taliban may do, the fact is that their
> oppression of women *alone* far outweighs it.
And yes, hitler wasn't kind to animals. Just because he didn't have the time to kill animals doesn't mean that he was kind to them. Ha Ha!!
afghanyat
that was a lame
very very lame
Ünver wrote in message <16cc96b3...@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com>...
>Just because something has a good side, it doesn't mean
>that it nullifies its bad side. Hitler was, for example,
>extremely kind to animals: does this excuse him for
>murdering millions of people?
>
>Whatever good the Taliban may do, the fact is that their
>oppression of women *alone* far outweighs it.
>
>
afghanyat
that women should be alowed to sleep with as many men as they can
have children who are fatherless
it means women to wear g-strings or evan go naked
thats what i believe he means
and kicka hindu i think u need a name change
kick_a...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8e871t$h2b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>In article <16cc96b3...@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com>,
> Ünver <mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid> wrote:
>> that it nullifies its bad side. Hitler was, for example,
>> extremely kind to animals: does this excuse him for
>> murdering millions of people?
>>
>> Whatever good the Taliban may do, the fact is that their
>> oppression of women *alone* far outweighs it.
>>
>
afghanyat
but i do approve of the hijab but it should be upto the women
but the current situation in afghanistan
does not allow that
Omar Usman Khan Marwat wrote in message <3907FA6B...@yahoo.com>...
>My Dear Unver, just because YOU don't like pardah doesn't mean that it
should be abolished. It is the Islamic Code and it should be observed. Even
if force
>is required to accomplish this. The city dwellers of Afghanistan were so
"Modern" that they used to wear mini skirts. Islam says that a woman should
be in
>Purdah even from her husband's brother. Yet today's women defy this, and
walk around like you have seen everywhere. Is this a healthy thing to do?
>
>
>> Just because something has a good side, it doesn't mean
>> that it nullifies its bad side. Hitler was, for example,
>> extremely kind to animals: does this excuse him for
>> murdering millions of people?
>>
>> Whatever good the Taliban may do, the fact is that their
>> oppression of women *alone* far outweighs it.
>
afghanyat
one of their firsts act was to tell women to wear the hijab
did u know that
Ünver wrote in message <18bb845c...@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com>...
>I've never denied that conservative dress is traditional in
>Afghanistan. However, in the years before the Taliban, some
>city women were abandoning the shapeless chador (I'm not
>sure if that's the correct name) and beginning to show
>their faces. What I am saying is that now, there is no
>choice: all women are *forcibly* made to wear full veils.
>
>
kick_a...@my-deja.com
"afghanyat" <afgh...@primus.com.au> wrote:
> it means
> that women should be alowed to sleep with as many men as they can
> have children who are fatherless
> it means women to wear g-strings or evan go naked
> thats what i believe he means
Likely.
> and kicka hindu i think u need a name change
But you definitely need a name change.
> kick_a...@my-deja.com wrote in message
<8e871t$h2b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> >In article <16cc96b3...@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com>,
> > Ünver <mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid> wrote:
> >> Just because something has a good side, it doesn't mean
> >> that it nullifies its bad side. Hitler was, for example,
> >> extremely kind to animals: does this excuse him for
> >> murdering millions of people?
> >>
> >> Whatever good the Taliban may do, the fact is that their
> >> oppression of women *alone* far outweighs it.
> >>
> >
Shamseddin Mohammad
several times before in this newsgroup by calling people you don´t know Jews
or Zionists, I must doubt your understanding. If you still don´t know
anything about the Talibans oppression of women then you must be blind and
illiterate that you oversee this frequently reported fact. But I think that
you rather WANT to be blind, because you are probably a Talib yourself.
And I know the standard counter argumentation of the kinds of you: In
Afghanistan everybody loves the Taliban and the media is getting paid by
Massood to tell lies about the Taliban. The whole world is involved in a
conspiracy against these innocent angels to denounce and discredit them. And
who are the ones in the background pulling the strings? Off course the
Taliban fearing Mossad Zionists.
Man, you better listen to Afghanyat and change your name.
<kick_a...@my-deja.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:8e871t$h2b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
kick_a...@my-deja.com
who provoked it in the first place. You Jews and Hindus have provoked me
further by coming to this newsgroup and hiding behind Muslim names.
And how I am using very bad language by calling a Jew a Jew? I suppose
Jew is a bad word as you say, but that's not my fault.
In addition to comparing the Taliban with Hitler (who that particular
Zionist, along with other Zionists consider to be their arch-enemy) the
Zionist in question said that the good done by the Taliban is
"outweighed" by their alleged "oppression" of women. I want
substantiation of this statement; as to how women are being "oppressed",
and how this overshadows every other event in Afghanistan.
The Zionist has not answered.
In article <8ea67t$a...@c4.hrz.uni-giessen.de>,
"Shamseddin Mohammad" <Sh...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Beside the fact that you again use very bad language like you have
done
> several times before in this newsgroup by calling people you don´t
know Jews
> or Zionists, I must doubt your understanding. If you still don´t know
> anything about the Talibans oppression of women then you must be blind
and
> illiterate that you oversee this frequently reported fact. But I think
that
> you rather WANT to be blind, because you are probably a Talib
yourself.
> And I know the standard counter argumentation of the kinds of you: In
> Afghanistan everybody loves the Taliban and the media is getting paid
by
> Massood to tell lies about the Taliban. The whole world is involved in
a
> conspiracy against these innocent angels to denounce and discredit
them. And
> who are the ones in the background pulling the strings? Off course the
> Taliban fearing Mossad Zionists.
> Man, you better listen to Afghanyat and change your name.
Ünver
for you to criticise me. How dare you display such
ignorance and prejudice, when as Muslims we have a Qur'anic
obligation to respect People of the Book. In the same way,
we have a Qur'anic obligation to respect women and treat
them as spiritual equals, something which the Taliban has
fallen far short of.
Ünver
women should be dressed head-to-toe. Allah promotes modest
dress *only*, and mentions specifically the covering of the
bosom. If He had meant for women to cover themselves
entirely, then He would have said it! Those who feel
otherwise are questioning the completeness of the Qur'an
itself. The tradition of purdah is actually known to have
been adopted from the Persians after they converted to
Islam. It has nothing to do with true Islam!
And I'm not saying the veil should be abolished: i'm saying
it should be a matter of choice.
Ünver
As far as I'm concerned, *NO* woman needs purdah: I was
just saying that the first Afghan women to realise this
happened to be townswomen.
Ünver
the current regime in Afghanistan.
Ünver
world of difference between women dressing modestly without
veils, and women wearing thongs! Stop twisting my meaning,
and use proper methods of debate.
Ünver
objectively and in terms of the true teachings of our
wonderful religion.
Ünver
<afgh...@primus.com.au> wrote:
> it should be upto
> the women
> but the current situation in afghanistan
> does not allow that
And yet when I state similar opinions, you do nothing but
criticise me!
kick_a...@my-deja.com
spouting unsubstantiated crap, that the Zionist should go unchallenged.
In article <00fa3dc4...@usw-ex0109-068.remarq.com>,
Ünver <mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid> wrote:
> Well said! Finally, someone is looking at things
> objectively and in terms of the true teachings of our
> wonderful religion.
>
> * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find
related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is
Beautiful
>
kick_a...@my-deja.com
Ünver <mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid> wrote:
> I am a Muslim. But if I were a Jew, it would be no reason
> for you to criticise me.
If a Jew is simply being a Jew and minding his/her own business, I am
not concerned with them.
But when you come here, pretending to be a Muslim, and spout your
propaganda, I have every right to criticise. Islam never said that if a
Zionist is attacking you, that you must let them.
>How dare you display such
> ignorance and prejudice, when as Muslims we have a Qur'anic
> obligation to respect People of the Book.
I don't think that we are expected to respect Zionists who have hostile
intentions towards ourselves. As for "people of the book" I don't think
that means that a Jew is somehow better than a Buddhist etc.
>In the same way,
> we have a Qur'anic obligation to respect women and treat
> them as spiritual equals, something which the Taliban has
> fallen far short of.
>
Substantiate how the Taliban have fallen far short of this. Also,
subtantiate your statement, that the Taliban policy towards women
overshadows everything else they have done.
Observer
news:16477d22...@usw-ex0109-068.remarq.com...
> obligation to respect People of the Book. In the same way,
> we have a Qur'anic obligation to respect women and treat
> them as spiritual equals, something which the Taliban has
> fallen far short of.
The Taliban was "reported" to act in those manners by the Western media.
With their anti Islamic stance I wonder how much reliability one can put on
those reports.
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
am concerned, *EVERY* woman should be in Purdah. I also agree with your point that a women can dress modestly without being in Veil.
You give me JUST 1 Example in QORAN or HADEES that a woman has been allowed to stop purdah if she is dressed modestly. Just 1 and I will agree whole
heartedly with you. Either follow Islam on the whole, or don't follow it at all.
Wether anybody realises the importance of purdah or not, this obligation should be strictly observed.
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
let her do it, simply because it is her wish?? These things destroy the whole social and moral set up of the society. If a woman doesn't want to observe
purdah, then this will have a very bad effect on the society on the whole. Look at america and other western countries nowadays. Christianity also tells
women that they should observe Purdah. Are they observing it? No. And look at what the society like there is. Do you want the same menace to spread to other
countries?
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
For centuries, women in Afghanistan and Pakistan are observing purdah.
And now that the Taliban are here, people have started to protest against it.
If purdah is so bad, then why didn't people protest to the Prophet PBUH? If
purdah is so bad, why have you people waited so long for centuries and remained
quiet? And now that the Taliban are here, you people suddenly realised that
there is some sort of thing as Purdah!!!
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
Unver, it seems like you don't even know anything about the Issue of purdah at all. I have collected the following Ahadees. Read on:
1. When a woman applies perfume and passes by a gathering of men (Or
in other words, tries to attract other men), she is like this and this
(like an adulterer) and will be among the people who committed Zina on
the day of judgement.
2.The gaze (at a ghair mahram) is a poisonous arrow from among the
arrows of Iblis. He who restrains (his staring gaze) for fear of me. I
shall exchange it for such solid Imaan, the sweetness of which he will
experience in his heart.
3.'A Dayuth will not enter Jannah.' The Sahabah asked, 'Who is a Dayuth?'
Rasulullah (saw.) said, 'A man who does not care who visits his wife (i.e.
men).'
4.Every eye is a fornicator.
5.The zina of the hands is to touch (a ghair mahram).
6.It is better that a steel rod be plunged into your head than you
touch a woman who is not lawful for you.
7.When a man is alone with a woman, the third one present is Shaitan.
8.Beware of visiting women (who are unlawful for you).
9.Women should not speak with men, except with a mahram.
10.It is not lawful for a woman who believes in Allah and the Last
Day to allow anyone entry into her husbands home except with his permission.
She should not go out of the house against his wishes. Nor should she obey
anyone without his regard.
11.Women may not emerge (from their homes) except when compelled
to (by circumstances). (Tabrani)
12.A women is an object of concealment, thus when she emerges, Satan
surreptitiously pursues her (and lays in wait to create his fitna for immorality).
13.Allah curses the one who looks (at females) and the one to whom
the look was directed.
14.Beware of mingling with women. A man from the Anshar asked, "What
do you, O’ prophet of Allah say about the brother-in-law?" The Holy Prophet
(saw.) replied, "A brother in law is death." (I.e. intermingling with him
is worse than death). Even for abrother in law, the condition is
so strict.
Similarly, in the Koran, Allah says that
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at
forbidden things) and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual
acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornments except only that which
is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity
to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head cover, apron, etc.),
and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces,
necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their
husbands, their fathers, their husband’s fathers, their son’s, their husband’s
sons, their brothers or their brother’s sons, or their sisters sons or
their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islam), or the (female) slaves
whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or
small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not
stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And
beg Allah to forgive you all O believers, that you may be successful.
And similarly, at another point in the Koran (Soorah Al Ahzab Verse
59), it says that
"… O Nabi (Prophet Mohammad PBUH)! Say to the believing women to
draw over them their outer garments (or cloaks) so that they be recognised
and not molested."
I have fulfilled my obligation of showing you that women should observe purdah and what is the importance of it.
Now, Unver, it is your turn to show me where in the Koran does it says or where in the Hadees does it say, that women should abolish purdah if they want to and that women don't need purdah if they are dressed modestly.
Ünver" wrote:
Quote me one passage from the Holy Qur'an which says that
women should be dressed head-to-toe. Allah promotes modest
dress *only*, and mentions specifically the covering of the
bosom. If He had meant for women to cover themselves
entirely, then He would have said it! Those who feel
otherwise are questioning the completeness of the Qur'an
itself. The tradition of purdah is actually known to have
been adopted from the Persians after they converted to
Islam. It has nothing to do with true Islam!And I'm not saying the veil should be abolished: i'm saying
it should be a matter of choice.
It is not a matter of choice. It is compulsory.
Ünver
you to deny my faith. I cannot see how my criticism of the
Taliban is at all related to Zionism! And I am not
sprouting propaganda, merely debating. I thought that was
the point of these groups.
Why do you mock the concept of the People of the Book. The
Qur'an clearly states that Jews and Christians deserve
respect for believing in the one, true God. Is this not a
fact?
And as for stabstantiating my accusation that women are
mistreated by the Taliban, how's this:
Women in Afghanistan are not allowed to be treated by male
doctors. At the same time, they are not permitted to study
inorder to become doctors themselves. Is this moral or
Islamic? Does Allah - who views the sexes as equal - want
women to die because they are denied medical aid? Indeed,
would you feel comfortable if one of your female loved-ones
fell ill in Afghanistan?
Ünver
heavily veiled and *must* keep to their houses. This alone
is gross oppression. We as Muslims must stop hiding behind
excuses. Yes, the Western media consistetly misrepresent
Islam, but what do you expect when regimes such as that in
Afghanmistan present our religion in such a harsh and
untrue light?
watandar
You don't need to worry about Afghanistan....Look to your own country---Islamic parties are banned, women are ousted from Parliment for wearing veils. You
should be worried about Turkey. How long do you think your secular junta is going to hold out against Muslims?
Is Ecivit going to "liberate" the women of Afghanistan, or is he too busy killing Kurds?
"Ünver" wrote:
> I am a Muslim. But if I were a Jew, it would be no reason
> for you to criticise me. How dare you display such
> ignorance and prejudice, when as Muslims we have a Qur'anic
> obligation to respect People of the Book. In the same way,
> we have a Qur'anic obligation to respect women and treat
> them as spiritual equals, something which the Taliban has
> fallen far short of.
>
Ünver
ridiculous! You cannot compare freedom of action to a
person wanting to commit murder. People excercise choice
daily; what they choose to eat, what they choose to call
their children, etc. And as long as someone's actions do
not contradict Allah's teachings, they are doing nothing
wrong. Which brings me to my final point: NOWHERE IN THE
QU'RAN DOES IT SAY THAT WOMEN SHOULD BE VEILED HEAD-TO-TOE,
AND ISOLATED IN THE HOME. Prove otherwise and then come
back to me!
Ünver
women should dress modestly, and women specifically should
cover their bosoms and all other provocative areas. If
Allah had meant for women to be completely covered, he
would have said so!
Ünver
your own purposes: if someone were to read the passage
without the aid of your "helpful" bracketed commentary,
they might interpret it in an enirely different way. Let me
ask you this: if Allah had wanted women to be completey
covered, why would He have mentioned specific areas like
the bosom. He wouldn't have to say "cover your bosoms" if
he'd said "cover your entire body".
As for the Hadith, many are acknowledged as being dubious
in provenance. Indeed, one example regarding the punishment
of adulterers famously contradicts the Qur'an itself.
Another talks about the sex-life of the Prophet (PBUH), and
others compare women to animals. The Hadith is a distorted
body of text, and a disgraceful misrepresentation of the
teachings of Muhammad (PBUH). Don't get me wrong, I am not
a "Qur'an-only" Muslim. There *are* good Hadith which do
*not* contradict the Qur'an. But those that do, or else try
to tag on extra commandments, are untrustworthy. the Qur'an
is complete, and must always be the ultimate source of
Islam. And nowhere does it speak of Purdah.
Ünver
be totally covered, He *would* have - not *should* have -,
said so. This seems reasonable enough. Those who say
otherwise are saying that Allah leaves his revelations
incomplete and ambiguous.
Observer
> bosom. If He had meant for women to cover themselves
> entirely, then He would have said it!
Do you know that the revelation of the Qur'an is NOT compulsory upon
God.It was revealed by His grace of being the Most Merciful.
If he had wanted not to reveal anything at all,there would be nothing much
that man can do.
Now you want to dictate what should be revealed.Good luck to you.
Shamseddin Mohammad
try to argue with absolutely ignorant people, who don´t know much about
Islam. For them it is more important what their ridiculous Amir al mu´menin,
Mollah Omar says. This sick idiot once said that the selling of drugs is not
forbidden, only their use is forbidden.
At least this guy needs drug sales to fund the killing of his own brothers.
Don´t you notice that an idiot like Kick a hindu says all kind of childish
bullshit to you and the others don´t criticize him. They are ignorant. They
don´t care for Kick a Hindus crap as long as it is against you.
These people with exception of Afghanyat remain in a state of denial of
obvious facts:
The Taliban have put hard and unjust restrictions on women and this is far
more than it used to be in the past. The consequence is that women are
dissatisfied with the Taliban. These restrictions cannot be explained by the
hypocrate justification that the Taliban measures are only for the womens
own safety. Look at Syria. Assads judiciary executed rapists and soon there
was no more sexual crime against women. Hijab is good, but first of all it
should be upon a voluntary base and second it should not be exxagerated.
Some people on this newsgroup only know these two extremes
A) Full Hijab a la Taliban or B) G-String wearing whores.
This is truly ridiculous and they are deceiving themselves. It is also not
of Quranic origin. The quranic hijab rule is more of a recommendation but
the Quran itself warns in a later passage of talking bad and defamatory
about women religious women who do not pay enough attention to their outfit.
The problem is that their are only few Hadith of the prophet that are
doubtlessly authentic. Everything else, especially tha Ahadith of Abu
Hurrayra are more or less speculation. In my opinion, where the Quran has
spoken clearly there is no more space and justification for a Hadith.
As you see I am well informed about my islamic faith but this does not
prevent denouncers like Kick a Hindu to call me a Jew.
Months ago he had a dispute with another guy and Afghanyat defended the
other guy a little bit. After this Kick a Hindu expressed his opinion that
Afghanyat and the other one are one and the same person. You see, he is
sick. So don´t care for this fundamentalist who disregards facts and
generalizes all media by calling them anti-islamic. This is not true. The
cheap and lowclass media in Europe are really anti-islamic and increase
their sales by printing naked girls, but the real intellectual print media
is absolutely not anti-islamic. But some fake Muslims think that
Anti-Taliban is equal to anti-islamic.
"Ünver" <mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:16477d22...@usw-ex0109-068.remarq.com...
> I am a Muslim. But if I were a Jew, it would be no reason
> for you to criticise me. How dare you display such
> ignorance and prejudice, when as Muslims we have a Qur'anic
> obligation to respect People of the Book. In the same way,
> we have a Qur'anic obligation to respect women and treat
> them as spiritual equals, something which the Taliban has
> fallen far short of.
>
>
Shamseddin Mohammad
in Pakistan and the holocaust and other facts.
There is no common base to discuss with you. You cannot argue, you are only
polemic.
I use at least my own name. You are the one who is hiding his identity.
Get lost, blind chlidish ignorant
<kick_a...@my-deja.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:8eag26$29d$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
You know what you remind me of?? You remind me of Abu Jahal. He would ask for proof and when he was put forward with proof, he would twist the words here and there. If you want, remove the bracketed commentary and read it again. It means the same words. Your argument is ridiculous about saying that the Qoran means totally different if you don't put commentary's in it. Here, read the passage again without the Commentary and then tell me.
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and protect their private parts and not to show off their adornments except only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband’s fathers, their son’s, their husband’s sons, their brothers or their brother’s sons, or
their sisters sons or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And beg Allah to forgive you all O believers, that you may be successful.
I have commented the first Ayat in brackets. The second ayat is as a whole. Why don't you look at that???
And about the Hadees, you are just putting forward a lame excuse. All of these Ahadees are Sayeeh Ahadees and they are mentioned in the Hadees Books. And besides, YOU YOURSELF ASKED ME TO SHOW YOU FROM THE QORAN AND "HADEES". So if you don't believe in Hadees, why did you ask me before in the first place??
And now Unver. Why are you running away from showing me from the Koran purdah is a matter of choice for women and that if they don't want to be in purdah, it is their wish to do so. Why are you shying away?????????????//
"Ünver" wrote:
You are merely interpreting the Qur'anic passage to suit
your own purposes: if someone were to read the passage
without the aid of your "helpful" bracketed commentary,
they might interpret it in an enirely different way. Let me
ask you this: if Allah had wanted women to be completey
covered, why would He have mentioned specific areas like
the bosom. He wouldn't have to say "cover your bosoms" if
he'd said "cover your entire body".
As for the Hadith, many are acknowledged as being dubious
in provenance. Indeed, one example regarding the punishment
of adulterers famously contradicts the Qur'an itself.
Another talks about the sex-life of the Prophet (PBUH), and
others compare women to animals. The Hadith is a distorted
body of text, and a disgraceful misrepresentation of the
teachings of Muhammad (PBUH). Don't get me wrong, I am not
a "Qur'an-only" Muslim. There *are* good Hadith which do
*not* contradict the Qur'an. But those that do, or else try
to tag on extra commandments, are untrustworthy. the Qur'an
is complete, and must always be the ultimate source of
Islam. And nowhere does it speak of Purdah.
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
need basic commodities of life. Why would a person want to become a doctor if he can't even fill his belly??
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
of your argument then?
"Ünver" wrote:
> The Qur'an gives a very clear dress code: both men and
> women should dress modestly, and women specifically should
> cover their bosoms and all other provocative areas. If
> Allah had meant for women to be completely covered, he
> would have said so!
>
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
Omar Usman Khan Marwat
them. He talks so much bullshit that it is better to just ignore him.
But I don't agree with people who are against Taliban.
kick_a...@my-deja.com
> Why do you mock the concept of the People of the Book.
I didn't 'mock' the concept of people of the book, and only a Zionist
would think I did. I pointed that just because you or any other Jew is
one of "the people of the book" does not mean that you are superior to a
Buddhist or any other person. I know you Zionists think you are the
'chosen people', but sorry, I don't think you are.
> And as for stabstantiating my accusation that women are
> mistreated by the Taliban, how's this:
>
> Women in Afghanistan are not allowed to be treated by male
> doctors.
You are calling this oppression? Only a Zionist would. What are you, a
gynecologist that needs female patients to make your living?
If you were at all honest, you would have admitted the fact that the
Taliban have created separate medical facilities for women, and even a
separate hospital, where female patients are treated by female doctors.
>At the same time, they are not permitted to study
> inorder to become doctors themselves.
Hmm...just what country do you think you are talking about? We're
talking about a country ravaged by war. I am very doubtful they would
have sufficient schooling for boys, let alone for females. Also, the
issue is not whether females are allowed schooling, but rather, what
their curriculum shall be (last I heard, anyways).
>Indeed,
> would you feel comfortable if one of your female loved-ones
> fell ill in Afghanistan?
If any one of my female loved ones fell ill, I wouldn't feel comfortable
at all, regardless of which country.
Now that I've shown you what I find wrong with your accusations about
their policy towards women, let us hear from you about why you think
this "outweighs" the good they have done (something I had asked you
earlier).
I'm listening.
In article <0c46da9b...@usw-ex0108-061.remarq.com>,
Ünver <mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid> wrote:
> I am not posing as a Muslim, and it is extremely immoral of
> you to deny my faith. I cannot see how my criticism of the
> Taliban is at all related to Zionism! And I am not
> sprouting propaganda, merely debating. I thought that was
> the point of these groups.
>
> Why do you mock the concept of the People of the Book. The
> Qur'an clearly states that Jews and Christians deserve
> respect for believing in the one, true God. Is this not a
> fact?
>
> And as for stabstantiating my accusation that women are
> mistreated by the Taliban, how's this:
>
> Women in Afghanistan are not allowed to be treated by male
> doctors. At the same time, they are not permitted to study
> inorder to become doctors themselves. Is this moral or
> Islamic? Does Allah - who views the sexes as equal - want
> women to die because they are denied medical aid? Indeed,
> would you feel comfortable if one of your female loved-ones
> fell ill in Afghanistan?
>
> * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find
related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is
Beautiful
>
watandar
The biggest idiot on this site is you.
Why is a kooni Iranian like you so interested in Afghanistan anyway?
Why do you spend so much time warning us Afghans about the Taliban?
Shamseddin Mohammad wrote:
Shamseddin Mohammad
Many Ahadith are dubious and have been connected to the Prophet to discredit
him and make the religion a joke.
"Ünver" <mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
Shamseddin Mohammad
Shamseddin Mohammad
responses from these guys.
They are not able to discuss, instead they are twisting the words of the
holy book and interpreting it towards their own purposes.
The deeds of the Taliban are well reported in publications of the UN and
Amnesty International, also in books of people like Ahmad Rashid and Changiz
Pahlawan.
There is no need to prove anything. The facts are evidence enough.
"Ünver" <mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
Surayya
Where are the references to the hadiths? If you spent the time
collecting them, where are the references?
Some of these translations look shoddy.
Also, its not just a matter of several hadiths, its the FIQH.
So supply the fiqh, not a handful of shoddily translated and referenced
hadiths.
Purdah is a cultural expression, and not fiqh terminology.
You have not shown anything that provides the daleel for the *forced*
donning of hijab ordered by non-mahrams let alone mahrams.
There are many obligatory acts in Islam (as detailed in the Quran) which
are not enforced or punishable by humans.
You haven't fulfilled your obligation of providing the daleel, can the
folks on URI punish you now?
Wa salam
sister Surayya
Omar Usman Khan Marwat <ome...@yahoo.com> writes
Ünver
being*. But only because there are female doctors who
received their education *before* the Taliban takeover.
Since no new female doctors are being trained, what will
happen when the current generation dies?
Your vile accusations are truly hurtful. You know nothing
about me in order to make such judgements. I am, in fact, a
Turkish Muslim, with a Palestinian grandfather who was
forced to leave his home as a result of the formation of
Israel. If that doesn't convince you, then all I can do is
plead by almight Allah that I am a true and believing
Muslim:
ASHADU AN LA ILAHA ILALLAH, WA ASHADU ANNA MUHAMMADAN
ABDUHUH WA RASULUH.
Ünver
Never!
As for the Qur'an's commandments, I will ask you again: if
God - who is never unclear in His meaning - had meant for
women to cover their entire bodies, why would He have not
said so? Why does He specifically mention the bosom?
Ünver
I'm not saying that Afghanistan's prime concern should be
the training of Doctors: I'm just saying that the current
restrictions make it very difficult for women to be treated
for illnesses. And surely that is unfair.
Ünver
purdah is even required!
Ünver
wasting my breath: still, there's no harm in trying!
afghanyat
you; see it im a few days
<kick_a...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8ea7sa$ou3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <39084dc9$1...@news.iprimus.com.au>,
> "afghanyat" <afgh...@primus.com.au> wrote:
> > it means
> > that women should be alowed to sleep with as many men as they can
> > have children who are fatherless
> > it means women to wear g-strings or evan go naked
> > thats what i believe he means
>
> Likely.
>
> > and kicka hindu i think u need a name change
>
> But you definitely need a name change.
>
> > kick_a...@my-deja.com wrote in message
> <8e871t$h2b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> > >In article <16cc96b3...@usw-ex0108-062.remarq.com>,
> > > Ünver <mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid> wrote:
> > >> Just because something has a good side, it doesn't mean
> > >> that it nullifies its bad side. Hitler was, for example,
> > >> extremely kind to animals: does this excuse him for
> > >> murdering millions of people?
> > >>
> > >> Whatever good the Taliban may do, the fact is that their
> > >> oppression of women *alone* far outweighs it.
> > >>
> > >
> > >What oppression of women? And how is the good they have done
> > >"outweighed" by their policy towards women?
> > >
> > >You better have an answer, Jew.
afghanyat
"Ünver" <mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid> wrote in message
> Why must you resort to cheap tactics like this? There is a
> world of difference between women dressing modestly without
> veils, and women wearing thongs! Stop twisting my meaning,
> and use proper methods of debate.
afghanyat
i prefer if zahir shah baba returned
mean while
im stuck with the crazy talibs
who are better than the buzak
gulbibi
gulam jaman
malkill
"Ünver" <mucahit.rus...@lineone.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:13e3e6e8...@usw-ex0109-068.remarq.com...
> No lamer than the Taliban apologists' attempts at defending
> the current regime in Afghanistan.
Shamseddin Mohammad
I know your postings already from alt.religion.islam or soc.culture.islam.
Good that you mention the problem with the Ahadith.
I am Shiit, bur of course I highly respect the Ahadith and the Sunna but
only as long as they not contradict the Quran and as long as they are
halfway authentic.
"Surayya" <sur...@ummah.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> So supply the fiqh, not a handful of shoddily translated and referenced
> hadiths.
> donning of hijab ordered by non-mahrams let alone mahrams.
> sister Surayya
Shamseddin Mohammad
You will not succeed to get racistic stetements from me.
I have good afghan friends.
Afghanistan prefers iranian friends to stupid native Afghans.
"watandar" <wata...@aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:390B5107...@aol.com...
watandar
only nobody wants to buy ur used-up ass anymore, nor ur retarded Iranian propaganda.
(See below, there's more!)
Shamseddin Mohammad wrote:
It seems that you are desperate "Watanforoosh"
You will not succeed to get racistic stetements from me.
I have good afghan friends.Afghanistan prefers iranian friends to stupid native Afghans.
"watandar" <wata...@aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
How right you are, Shamu. You know us Afghans so well.
We want to be just like Iranians. We want to be feminine, and use
words like "Aaray" and "merci". We want to speak Farsi like we were
drunk (the way you do). And we would love to get our asses kicked
by Afghans---over and over again throughout history.
And the only "stupid native" Afghans are the ones who hang out with you.
Ünver
<8ei8fe$jjd$1...@beethoven.singa.pore.net>, "Observer"
<obser...@yahool.com> wrote:
> Do you believe in the other laws of the Qur'an that is
> more clearly
> defined,such as:
> 1)cutting of the hand for theft
Can be interpreted as simply cutting (ie. wounding) as
opposed to amputating.
> 2)an eye for an eye
And mercy for those who apologise or surrender.
> 3)stoning/lashing for adulterers
Lashing only: stoning to death is found in the Hadith.
You have failed to point out that throughout the Qur'an, we
are told that those who apologise and repent for their sins
should not be punished. This is true of theives, for
example. *Mercy is the overriding factor*. I must admit
that the issue if Islamic law is not one that I have fully
consolidated my ideas about. There are, for example,
certain sections in the Qur'an that were clearly written
specifically for the peoples of the time. Slavery, for
example, is permitted because it was commonplace at the
time. However, Allah always makes it clear that slavery is
not something to be admired, and so over time, virtually
all Muslims have come to see slavery as wholly immoral.
This demonstrats that sometimes we have to look for God's
*implicit* messages. Similarly, I have asked myself whether
or not there is a subtext to Qur'anic law. At the time, the
punishments stated were extremely mild, in the same way
that the treatment of slaves that is laid out is extremely
humane. But the constant references to mercy, to
withholding punishment unless *absolutely* necessary: do
these too indicate that the punishments laid out in the
Qur'an were directed at the original Muslims, and that
successive generations should turn instead to the subtext
of mercy? As I say, I cannot fully embrace this view for
fear that I will be misinterpreting Allah. But what I *do*
know is that the Qur'an always promotes mercy above
punishment.
> AFAIK Turkey adamantly suppress any Islamic party so
> as to promote
> secularism.So where do you stand on this?
I am no friend of Kemalism, or Turkey's secular regimes.
However, I do not think that a Muslim regime has to rule a
la the Taliban. A fair democracy, led by righteous and God-
fearing people who have proven their religion is, I think,
the ideal.
Observer
> Israel. If that doesn't convince you, then all I can do is
> plead by almight Allah that I am a true and believing
> Muslim:
Do you believe in the other laws of the Qur'an that is more clearly
defined,such as:
1)cutting of the hand for theft
2)an eye for an eye
3)stoning/lashing for adulterers
4)faraid
AFAIK Turkey adamantly suppress any Islamic party so as to promote
secularism.So where do you stand on this?
Please don't repeat question on a small matter such as the purdah which you
claim is not stated in the Qur'an.So do you follow those that are clearly
stated in the first place?