Afghan Women
Peter Amschel
all, the veil has means that they can walk around without being
judged by their appearance. Secondly, all women are equally
respected and appreciated.
MassoudAfghan
news:MPG.1269ba353...@news.pe.net...
Peter, that is a big blow to humanity. Is that your definition of freedom?
Are you man enough to do what ever with your wife only , and respect all
other women regardless of their appearance, and don't engage in sexual
fantasies about them? Believe me, it's possible without wiping women off
from the cities, schools, and offices.
Would you respect women so much that you deny them healthcare?
Peter, you got it wrong, what you know is not Islam, it's a dark
interpretation, badly influenced by the Buddhism culture. "Chadari" (veil)
is not part of Islamic culture, but it's part of Buddhism. People of
Afghanistan used to be Buddists before Islam was broth in. They accepted
Islam, but did not abandon all of their pre-Islamic practices.
Mohammad (pbuh) worked for his wife who was a business woman and was not
locked up, dude. Understand the bright side, and avoid the dark Taliban's
and/or other Islamic extremist's interpretations.
You are unbelievable.
m...@heidy.com
Dear M.A.,
Sorry, but the chadari is not Buddhist. It is christian. The Christian in
Suria, Lebanon and the whole middle eaest used this veil in the early days od
Islam. It was mainly used by rich women, who want to cover their face, to
seperate from the poor. It was a fashion copied by rich Muslim women.
Islam with its strong nomadic tradition had no use for this fashion. Have a
look to nomads. The women are still uncovered out of practical reasons. The
Luri, or the Koochis women are still uncovered. They just wear a scarf, and
this is very practical. Scarfs are also used in mountainous areas of Europe.
Old women in Austrian mountains still use a scarf.
Cadri or burqa are more local tradition, and not islamic law, Peter. The world
is changing, and hte Islam is more than this cadri-story.
Peter, it is not your bussiness to defend local traditions. You have nothing
to do with Afghanistan; and your blablabla is neither interesting nor true.
You are misusing Islam to cover your personal problems. That is your chadri.
Peter Amschel
a woman's point of view:
http://www.faklen.dk/en/the_torch/veil.shtml
In article <380064A9...@heidy.com>, m...@heidy.com says...
montgomery
the veil, the hajib, out of respect and necessarily so in some countries I have
travelled in. I have also worn the simple scarf in the mountains where nomadic
tribes roam on their paths. I found the veil ... comfortable (possibly because it
was my choice to wear one) and practical (it kept me cleaner during my journeys and
safer too ... I was spared some of the attention that other western woman did get
and did not want). It afforded me some privacy when I needed it. And still as a
western woman, and I know this sounds terribly archaic, but there are times (a lot
of them) that I do not want attention from strangers. I do not dress
provocatively. I try to dress with respect and accordingly to the company I am
with. I will wear a traditional sarong when it is appropriate or a full length, to
the wrist, to the neck dress in certain other company and move freely in those
circumstances out of cultural courtesy and respect and because it is easier. But it
is the hajib of the mind that frightens me .. not the dress. It it the regime
imposed upon the person (both male and female) by the laws that dictate certain
behaviour ... people are beaten and killed for failing to observe what some one else
declares is "acceptable" ... when the veil becomes a living shroud and used against
people, to deprive them of important freedoms or inflict upon them hardships that
are cruel ... then the habit / beliefs behind the veil (so to speak) must be
lifted. Not to "reveal" but to facilitate freedoms that are important to all of
us. It is not the clothes, but rather the people and their beliefs that are
important. If people wish to use the burqa, the hajib ... fine by me ... but do not
impose that on me or others and do not use that as an excuse to exploit / control
others. I do not insist that anyone follow my "moral codes" when it comes to
dress. I simply try to follow my own.
point in case. my youngest daughter and her friends went to a local tourist
attraction, a famous suspension bridge in North Vancovuer several years ago during
the heat of the summer. There was a group of people in the middle of the bridge ...
the women wore not only the burqa but the gloves as well. The men, on the other
hand, were wearing muscle t-shirts and skin tight short shorts ... quite a contrast
... and as the group of young girls looked at this seeming contradiction, one of the
men charged at them, screaming at these young ladies "WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AT MY WIFE
!! " and a bunch of not nice and very obsene expletives which shocked the young
girls ... the girls recoiled in fear ... they had never encountered anything like
this before ... they stayed far away from the burqa group but the tallest of the
young ladies, a soccer player, said under her breath to the man that was yelling at
them "what a creep" ... as indeed this man was ... he was trying to terrorize a
group of young girls by threats. My own daughter said to me later ... "Mommy it was
over 100 degrees !!" ... the lesson these girls learned is many ... fear being the
first one. Did they learn any respect for the burqa? I don't think so. It became
something to fear and pity. I tried to explain to my child that I have worn the
veil and found it cool in the summer, warm in the winter, and a few of the other
benefits ... because there are people who live with the veil by choice ... but then
there are those who are burdened by it ... and therein is the problem. When choices
and freedoms are denied because of the veil ...
And then there is the "invisible veil" ... and I have lived under that too. Which
is worse, the foe we can or cannot see? I fear the latter more. When the person is
reduced to nothing because of attitudes ... and that surely exists in the "free
world" ...
I can live with the veil ... it is the veil or the proponents of the veil which is
used to suppress freedom (for both men and women) that frightens me. When the veil
is used to deny women opportunities to contribute to her society in meaninful ways,
or when it is used to enslave her to cruel beliefs and deny her basic human rights
(which naturally and inevitably deny men rights as well ... for I do not believe
that all men are only thinking about sex all the time ... that is a sexist belief
that degrades the dignity of men too). Bottom line, it is the humanity that
concerns me. Not the clothing or lack of. Too much or not enough can be a real
problem ... but ... the reasons behind it are the greater concerns.
The "face", the human face really is a world ... as a photographer who focuses on
the face ... it is that which is not so easily seen which can be a problem ... it is
the unknown, the secrets ... the mystery (for lack of better word) ... I go "beyond
the veil" all the time thru' the lens of a camera. And there is a trust in that ...
I am not going to argue the merits or problems of the veil ... both exist. How we
treat one another as human beings is the crux of the matter ... how we view each
other as human beings and how we respond to one another "face to face" is my
concern. And how we respect each others' needs and rights is the issue ... not so
much how we "appear" or "look" and yet .. it can say so much about who we are.
I have personally lived within strict Muslim communities and had no problems because
of the veil. It afforded me an ease of passage that might not otherwise exist for
me. I would still wear the veil and have thought of buying one and wearing it from
time to time in my own community. There are times I wish I had the privacy it
affords ... but I also have the freedom to make that decision. I am not penalized
or criticised one way or another becuase of it. I carry a head scarf in my camera
bag 'just in case' I end up in a temple or a mosque .. and I do from time to time.
I have also found that head scarves are provided at the doors for those of us who do
not travel with a veil ... it is no big problem nor should it be. Tolerance is
important factor in compassion. When we use the veil to deny basic human rights ...
THAT is the problem. And it is a problem in Afghanistan for sure. But then, I
think all of Afghanistan is denied basic human rights ... the veil is the least of
the problems. I see Afghanistan as a country blown apart by war ... the
infrastructure ravaged by ... war, war, war ... there is an urgent need for medical
support, the life expectancy (according to 1996 stats FROM Afghanistan's own stats,
I might add) for a man is 41 and for a woman, 42 ... there are no new stats
provided. THAT is appalling ... and speaks volumes on the whole matter. 41 !!
infant mortality is abysmal ... and so forth ... factored in with the untimely
deaths caused by conflict ... Afghanistan is in trouble and the question must be,
burqa or no burqa ... how can we help? What can we do to ease the burdens of the
people, men women children ... of all ages .. all beliefs ... how can we help? Our
criticism is not going to help anyone ... that is far too easy. Our wrangle about
this or that belief is not going to change one bit of the suffering / difficulties
... it is not going to save one life and maybe, just maybe, we are contributing by
our very arguments for / against ... to the further entrechment of old attitudes ...
we all need a new day ... and I can only say with respect to a Vancouver doctor who
spent time in a maternity ward in Afghanistan, helping to train people forward in
midwifery and pre / post natal care ... well done. We need more of that in many
places in the world.
The burqa is something beyond which we must "see" ... and we need to respect it.
But it must not be used as a barrier to human rights which we all need and are
dependent upon.
But enough.
Brenda M. Montgomery
Peter Amschel
was sent to the cited author.]
That's a nice, informative letter, thanks very much.
I plan to go to Afghanistan next October to check it out. Have
you ever been there? I am told that things are much better under
the Taliban, and that before Taliban arrived that the women were
subject to rape and murder by outlaws, and that no one could
travel without paying tribute to this or that tribe. I have been
told that Taliban is the true religion, the beginning of a new
world order of government by God over the earth, so I am going to
go an check it out. My beard is already regulation length even
though I still have to wait almost a year to get there.
In article <3800C321...@bc.sympatico.ca>,
mon...@bc.sympatico.ca says...
Eric Twose
I'll second you. I very much appreciated Brenda Montgomery's well-balanced
post, too.
You say "My beard is already regulation length even
though I still have to wait almost a year to get there."
Please forgive my impishness, but it occurs to me that acording to Hakim
Jami, "if the scissors are not used daily on the beard it will not be long
before the beard is, by its luxurient growth, pretending to be the head."
(Been there, done it, got the blood-stained t-shirt).
Regards, EricT.
Peter Amschel <amsc...@pe.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.126a7c264...@news.pe.net...