Cheapo!
an3...@anon.penet.fi
he is SO CHEAP! I think it's fair to split meals down the middle and
for us to alternate phone-calling (we have been long-distance for the
past 4 months of our two year-relationship), but once in a while I'd
like to see that I mean more to him than his money! He has resisted
urges to call me for monetary reasons (and he is under no financial
duress whatsoever, and is actually quite well-off), and when we were
discussing engagement rings, he was horrified to discover that they
cost more than $200! AAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHH!
Further, for my birthday, he built up his gift to be such a great, exciting
thing: and he gave me a USED CD! Now, I know that it's the thought
that counts, and I shouldn't be so superficial as to expect something
more expensive, but heck, I've definitely spent more on gifts for him
than vice versa! I don't know how to bring this up with him without
seeming superficial or looking like I don't appreciate his gifts/am
after his money. My friend's boyfriend of 1 year just bought her a
beautiful gold bracelet for her birthday. I don't expect as much, but
I'd like to have my birthday gift cost more than a KMart glove!
So my question is:
How can I relay this message to him without being offensive? He's wonderful
in almost every other way, so I don't want to do something so radical
so as to lose him. How do I get CHEAPO to realize his folly?!?
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Mark Goldberg
I could have advised you to set a proper example, but apparently you
have done this through generosity in your gifts to him. If this had
gone on for the years your relationship, then you can reasonably expect
this frugality to be part of your boyfriend's permanent makeup. The
choices now are to (1) decide whether or not you can tolerate his attitude
for the rest of your life, and if not, get out of the relationship;
(2) give him an "I" message honestly discussing your feelings about
the issue and what outcome you desire, or (3) give him a much stronger
message with an ultimatum to change or it all over.
/|/| /||)|/ /~ /\| |\|)[~|)/~ | Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.
/ | |/ ||\|\ \_|\/|_|/|)[_|\\_| | gold...@oasys.dt.navy.mil
========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein=======
Roger Walker
A> I have a great, loving boyfriend
[DRUM ROLL, PLEASE...]
A> with no major flaws but this one:
A> he is SO CHEAP!
[SUPPORTING EVIDENCE DELETED]
A> So my question is:
A> How can I relay this message to him without being offensive?
You spoke of the possibility of marriage. Finances and how they are handled
are certainly one of the many important subjects that should be flogged to
death before taking those vows.
It's clear to me that you and he have different attitudes about money. Keep
in mind, that if you do marry him and his attitude hasn't changed, you will
either have to change yours or put up with his.
A> How do I get CHEAPO to realize his folly?!?
Make it clear to him that you either need a compromise, understanding, or
an attitude change from him (your choice) for you to continue with or
elevate (again, your choice) the status of your relationship. Not much
leeway here, but a good relationship should be based on open communication,
else no problems can really be solved.
-- Via DLG Pro v0.995
"Please quote only the RELEVANT text to reduce the bandwidth."
Roger Walker (403) 465-4962 ** SysOp, CUE Here BBS (403) 465-7715
GIS Analyst, City of Edmonton Computing Resources Dept (403) 496-4145
kas...@helix.nih.gov
>I have a great, loving boyfriend with no major flaws but this one:
>he is SO CHEAP!
(stuff deleted that shows examples of boyfriend's cheapness)
>So my question is:
>How can I relay this message to him without being offensive? He's wonderful
>in almost every other way, so I don't want to do something so radical
Rehabilitating a tightwad can be a lifelong task, but it is certainly not
impossible. The condition probably stems from the way your SO was raised,
and if he has siblings, they are probably afflicted with the same disease.
: ) Of course, everyone has different degrees of selfishness, but it looks
like he is just too self-focused for his own good.
What you need to do is to tackle the problem in many various ways, until
something starts working. This is what I did to rehabilitate my cheapo
husband:
* Insist on separate bank accounts (VERY IMPORTANT). Of course, it goes
without saying that you do not hand over your paycheck.
* When you show him a new purchase (that you bought with your OWN money),
be ready to thwart his insistance that the purchase needs to be justified.
When he asks, "How much did it cost?" exagerate the price. Note: this does
not mean that you can skip paying your half of the bills to buy yourself
lotsa stuff!
* For a few years I adamantly refused to go out to dinner with my husband
(something that he desired very much), saying that it was "too expensive"
and "we didn't have that kind of money". He eventually admitted that we
did have money for a few extravagances.
* Shower him with very expensive and multiple birthday and Christmas gifts.
Give him stuff that he would definitely not buy for himself, but that you
know he wants very much. Perhaps he will feel embarrassed when his gift to
you pales by comparison.
* Don't show the slightest bit of interest in the cheap gifts that he gives
you. Indeed, show disappointment. When he asks why you won't wear the
jewelry, clothing, etc., explain that it is of poor quality, and ask him if
he would be offended if the gift was returned.
* Take advantage of occasions when he asks you what you want for a gift.
For instance, when my husband asked me what I wanted for my birthday, I
told him that I wanted to trade in my engagement ring for the kind of ring
that I really wanted. Imagine the insult to his manhood when the jeweler
refused to give us anything for the ring.
* Once I did something which to most people would seem very foolish, but
which made me very proud of myself. I withdrew $300 cash out of the bank,
stuffed it in a brown papar bag, and "hid" the bag in the refrigerator with
his name on it (no special occasion was involved). When he discovered the
bag of cash, he was absolutely befuddled! He kept the cash, but shortly
afterwards he started doing some very generous things in return (for
example, when we had to take my car for repair, he surprised me by picking
up the car and paying the bill. This was a big step for him.).
* Ask him what charities that he regularly donates to. Encourage him to
sponsor a starving child in a third-world country or give donations to the
charity of his choice. If he says that he doesn't donate to any charities,
show your displeasure by saying, "I can't imagine that anyone that is so
well off could be so selfish."
* When he proudly tells you what a great "deal" he made (on buying a car or
whatever), remind him that it is virtuous to pay the actual value of a
product.
* Show by example. Overtip at restaurants. I always give at least 20
percent.
* Be alert to devious tactics that may emerge. For a few years my husband
did indeed give me expensive Christmas gifts: the microwave oven that he
always wanted (he knows that I hate to cook), a bicycle that was big enough
for him to ride, exercising equipment obviously meant for a man, etc. I
had to clue him in that he was buying these gifts for himself. We finally
agreed to start exchanging gift wishlists, and I added some items on my
list that I definitely DID NOT want.
All of the above suggestions can easily be criticized or condemned. Some
ideas are perhaps too costly, and some might not seem fair. But remember,
we are trying to change a person's basic behaviorisms, and sometimes
extreme temporary measures have to be taken.
Yes, I am fully aware that my suggestions will probably result in heated
arguments and marital discord. But we are groping around to discover
something that works. I do not believe that this problem has no
compromises or solutions. And I do believe that it IS a problem.
Just talking to him, and being honest and "up front" with him probably
isn't going to work. He may even agree wholeheartedly with you, and
profoundly apologize. He may respond by buying you a surprise and costly
gift. But his spending habits are ingrained in his personality...and will
always re-emerge from time to time thoughout his life. If this is
unacceptable to you, then the relationship will probably not survive.
The methods that I have suggested have worked for me. Keep in mind that I
do not believe in extravagances such as charging up your credit cards,
buying overpriced cars, going on shopping binges out of boredom, etc.
Migrating to the other extreme is even worse than being a tightwad.
Remember the fine expression, 'moderation in all things.'
To the orginal poster, best of luck. You've got a hell of a job in front
of you. But someone's got to do it! :)
-Eve
.
P. C. Kilinskas
>an3...@anon.penet.fi says:
>>I have a great, loving boyfriend with no major flaws but this one:
>>he is SO CHEAP!
> (stuff deleted that shows examples of boyfriend's cheapness)
>>So my question is:
>>How can I relay this message to him without being offensive? He's wonderful
>>in almost every other way, so I don't want to do something so radical
>>so as to lose him. How do I get CHEAPO to realize his folly?!?
[ideas deleted]
While I certainly agree that being overly attached to money can cause someone
much misery, I can't agree that these kind of mind games could help a
relationship overall. If I sensed this kind of manipulative behavior from
my SO, I would end the relationship quickly.
>Just talking to him, and being honest and "up front" with him probably
>isn't going to work. He may even agree wholeheartedly with you, and
>profoundly apologize. He may respond by buying you a surprise and costly
>gift. But his spending habits are ingrained in his personality...and will
>always re-emerge from time to time thoughout his life. If this is
>unacceptable to you, then the relationship will probably not survive.
>To the orginal poster, best of luck. You've got a hell of a job in front
>of you. But someone's got to do it! :)
It's not always a good idea to try and mold someone to your personal idea
of acceptable. If you are, I think truth and understanding are better than
games and manipulation.
Phil
____________________________________________________________________________
p...@acsu.buffalo.edu / "Our days are like grass..." - Psalms 103:51
Your eyes are weary from staring at the CRT. You feel sleepy. Notice how
restful it is to watch the cursor blink. Close your eyes. The opinions
stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.
Eric Weaver
In article <930902132...@helix.nih.gov>, kas...@helix.nih.gov writes:
|> [...]
|> * Shower him with very expensive and multiple birthday and Christmas gifts.
|> Give him stuff that he would definitely not buy for himself, but that you
|> know he wants very much. Perhaps he will feel embarrassed when his gift to
|> you pales by comparison.
|>
|> * Don't show the slightest bit of interest in the cheap gifts that he gives
|> you. Indeed, show disappointment. When he asks why you won't wear the
|> jewelry, clothing, etc., explain that it is of poor quality, and ask him if
|> he would be offended if the gift was returned.
|>
|> * Take advantage of occasions when he asks you what you want for a gift.
|> For instance, when my husband asked me what I wanted for my birthday, I
|> told him that I wanted to trade in my engagement ring for the kind of ring
|> that I really wanted. Imagine the insult to his manhood when the jeweler
|> refused to give us anything for the ring.
|>
|> sponsor a starving child in a third-world country or give donations to the
|> charity of his choice. If he says that he doesn't donate to any charities,
|> show your displeasure by saying, "I can't imagine that anyone that is so
|> well off could be so selfish."
|>
|> * When he proudly tells you what a great "deal" he made (on buying a car or
|> whatever), remind him that it is virtuous to pay the actual value of a
|> product.
And you pretend to love this man?
Sheesh.
You would have done him and yourself a greater service by marrying someone
else instead of playing mindfuck games with him throughout your marriage.
Happily not married to you...
--
Eric Weaver Sony AVTC 3300 Zanker Road, 4th fl. SJ CA 95134 408 955-4904
& Chief Engineer, KFJC 89.7 Foothill College Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Beth Weiss
>>>I have a great, loving boyfriend with no major flaws but this one:
>>>he is SO CHEAP!
Eve wrote:
>>Just talking to him, and being honest and "up front" with him probably
>>isn't going to work. He may even agree wholeheartedly with you, and
>>profoundly apologize. He may respond by buying you a surprise and costly
>>gift. But his spending habits are ingrained in his personality...and will
>>always re-emerge from time to time thoughout his life. If this is
>>unacceptable to you, then the relationship will probably not survive.
While it is likely that they will always re-emerge, that doesn't mean
he can't fundamentally change, recognize them, and fight them.
The first Christmas my SO and I were together, I received coasters and
a knife block. I was heartbroken (and I didn't even like the knife
block he picked out). I was distressed all day--he hadn't bothered to
pick anything out for _me_. (And for my birthday, he'd given me a
ceramic pitcher. It was pretty enough, but I collect bud vases, not
pitchers) It took me all day to get up the courage to talk about
it, but I decided that if we were going to stay together forever, whch
looked likely at that point, I'd have to talk to him.
So, pretty much in tears, I explained how hurt I was that he hadn't
picked anything out that was special for _me_, that would be important
to me. He then confessed that the beautiful replica glass vase he'd
ordered for me hadn't arrived yet (it didn't come until february, as
it turned out), and so he hadn't known what to do, and that's why he'd
gotten other stuff.
But even so, he'd spent a fraction of the amount of money, and less
time and thought than I had picking out gifts--part of it is a
different way of looking at gifts. He thinks of them as "tokens" and
I think of them as "major". We've worked out a lot of this over the
last five years--but talking about it has made the major difference.
If your SO loves you and wants you to be happy, he'll try to adjust,
just as you will, and you'll find a happy common ground.
--
--Beth Weiss
bwe...@cs.arizona.edu
Ron G Hay
In article <1993Sep...@kuttner.sfc.sony.com>, wea...@kuttner.sfc.sony.com (Eric Weaver) writes:
|> And you pretend to love this man?
|>
|> Sheesh.
|>
|> You would have done him and yourself a greater service by marrying someone
|> else instead of playing mindfuck games with him throughout your marriage.
|>
|> Happily not married to you...
|> --
Agreed. Talk with the person. Tell him how you feel. *Communicate*.
*Don't* try to change him. If it drives you crazy, change yourself. If you
just can't handle it, don't be in the relationship. I can't stand people
who try to change their SOs :p (Can you tell I was in a relationship with
someone that kept trying to "improve" me? ) Have respect for the person and
talk to him about *your* problem (your need to have expensive gifts) and try
to come up with compromises. Just don't try to change him, it puts bad
pressures on a relationship.
"Never underestimate your ability to change yourself,
never overestimate your ability to change others."
- don't know who said it, but it seems very appropriate...
--
Ron Hay "Always...ALWAYS remember:
ron...@med.umich.edu Less is LESS. More is MORE.
Human Genome Center More is BETTER, and TWICE as much is GOOD too...
University of Michigan Not enough is BAD, and too much is never ENOUGH
(This space left blank) except when it's JUST ABOUT RIGHT." - The Tick (tm)
ellen.m.mcsorley
He was pretty much the same way. He was very much into
electronics and his home computer - spending $1000 that
he didn't have for a new hard disk and printer didn't
take a second thought. AND, mind you, he always reminded
me when his birthday was coming and what he'd like for
Christmas.
As for me, he thought it was funny that he couldn't remember
my brithday, and gee, he had ALL these family members to
buy Christmas presents for, gee, he didn't have much left
over.... and he REALLY hated having to be creative in
picking out a gift for me, even though I always said that
I loved receiving flowers, and flowers from the A&P were
just as good as flowers from a florist (flowers at the
A&P are $3.99 around here!)
I once got the line "gee, ya know, if we lived together
WE could afford a really good VCR and a stereo TV!"
I made it clear early in the relationship that I was not
interested in getting married. He'd always bring up the
subject when he was thinking of buying a house (which he
couldn't afford on his own.) I finally called it off
during the last "if you loved me you'd marry me and help
me buy a house" whining fit.
I know "breaking up is hard to do" but I did it and am
now married to a WONDERFUL Englishman who is thoughtful
and caring - and who gives me roses on our Anniversary!
(no, not from the A&P, either!)
True - you don't want to put a "price" on love, or relationships,
but a lot of it has to do with thoughtfullness for the
other person. It IS the thought that counts, not the price.
Ellen
Tim Sheehan
>
[story of coasters, knife block, and tears deleted]
>
> If your SO loves you and wants you to be happy, he'll try to adjust,
> just as you will, and you'll find a happy common ground.
>
> --
> --Beth Weiss
> bwe...@cs.arizona.edu
The family I grew up in has always been very practical when it comes
to gift giving. Presents are usually extremely utilitarian and are often
costly. For instance, I once gave my brother a garage door opener for
Christmas, and he was quite happy with it. The answer to the question
"What do you want for Christmas?" nearly always starts with "Well, let's
see, what do I need?..."
On the first birthday my SO, Victoria, had after we started dating, I gave
her a set of flannel sheets. On our first Christmas, the main gift I gave
her was a nice saucepan. Very practical!
For my birthday and Christmas that first year, she gave me thoughtful, fun
gifts (in general, less expensive than the gifts I gave her).
Eventually, she brought up the subject of gift giving in terms of
utilitarian gifts versus thoughtful and fun gifts. After talking about it,
I saw the light. It is more fun to get/give gifts that are thoughtful and
not necessarily practical. Buying a good gift is more challenging this way,
but it's more fun, too. Besides, people will usually get the things they
really need for themselves (such is not always the case for the things they
want).
The next year, I decided to make a decorative shelf for her. I didn't know
the exact size or type of shelf she would want, so I decided to let her
decide after Christmas. I wrapped up the board I had bought for the shelf
in one package, and the dowel pins I planned on using in another. When she
opened the packages she was confused and asked me what they were for. When
I told her that I was going to make them into a decorative shelf for her,
she was so touched, she cried. She said that nobody had ever made her
anything.
Since then, I give her the most thoughtful fun/nice gifts I can think of,
and I try to do the same with my family, too. I'm not sure how much my
practical family appreciates it, but I know Victoria does. I know she gets
a lot more joy out of looking at that shelf than she does from cooking in
that saucepan.
--
-Tim-
Jodi Giannini
word, most people are delighted to get a book. I can always manage to find
a book that suits a person. I usually enclose a bookmark that I know they'll
like, and write a dedication on the inside page as well with the name, date,
and occasion. I have books that were given to me as a child. Books also
come in a variety of price ranges, which makes it easy to stick to a budget.
--Jodi G.
Beth Weiss
>[story of coasters, knife block, and tears deleted]
>On the first birthday my SO, Victoria, had after we started dating, I gave
>her a set of flannel sheets. On our first Christmas, the main gift I gave
>her was a nice saucepan. Very practical!
Actually, I got a 12" RevereWare skillet the following year for
Christmas. (The year after the knifeblock :-) But, it came along
with pearl and diamond earrings, and a purple jacket!
The moral of the story: practical is okay, it just has to come with
something sweet/fun/loving/romantic.
--
--Beth Weiss
bwe...@cs.arizona.edu
Seagull
Agreed! One of the best gifts I have gotten from my SO was a Harlan
Ellison collection that I had been wanting to get for several months. It
was, quite definitely, the perfect gift for me.
--
"All my possessions for a moment of time."
- Queen Elizabeth I
kas...@helix.nih.gov
>Agreed. Talk with the person. Tell him how you feel. *Communicate*.
>*Don't* try to change him.
If you are not trying to change him, then why bother talking to him? To
convince him to change himself?? Isn't that the same as trying to change
him?
>I can't stand people who try to change their SOs
Errr...but my husband use to SHOPLIFT his Christmas gifts so that he
wouldn't have to pay for them. This continued until he was arrested.
Believe me, the guy had a problem. It is wrong to try to CHANGE this??
How long have your relationships lasted?? Can you honestly say that you
have never tried to change you SO? That she has never tried to change
you?? From what I observe around me, this is happening all the time, every
day.
>If you just can't handle it, don't be in the relationship
But what if you're married? Grounds for divorce need to be a little
stronger than: 'my partner tried to change me.'
I wish that straightforward communication was the solution to our myraid
relationship problems, but it is usually alot more complex than that.
That's what gives marriage counselors and psychologists their jobs.
-Eve
.
kas...@helix.nih.gov
>And you pretend to love this man?
No, I do not pretend to love this man. I DO love this man. Our marriage
has lasted for nine years. And he has admitted that he was indeed a
cheapskate and is glad that I've helped him past his problem.
> Happily not married to you...
Perhaps you would only be happily married to a puppet on a string...
The best marriages involve compromise, which means, yes, that no one is the
perfect mate and BOTH partners have to change somewhat to accommodate the
other.
-E
.
jabol...@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu
>>I have a great, loving boyfriend with no major flaws but this one:
>>he is SO CHEAP!
> (stuff deleted that shows examples of boyfriend's cheapness)
>>So my question is:
>>How can I relay this message to him without being offensive? He's wonderful
>>in almost every other way, so I don't want to do something so radical
>>so as to lose him. How do I get CHEAPO to realize his folly?!?
>
>
> Rehabilitating a tightwad can be a lifelong task, but it is certainly not
> * When he proudly tells you what a great "deal" he made (on buying a car or
> whatever), remind him that it is virtuous to pay the actual value of a
> product.... an aside but I don't see any virtue in this.
>
> What you need to do is to tackle the problem in many various ways, until
> something starts working. This is what I did to rehabilitate my cheapo
> husband:.....
>
> All of the above suggestions can easily be criticized or condemned. Some
> ideas are perhaps too costly, and some might not seem fair. But remember,
> we are trying to change a person's basic behaviorisms, and sometimes
> extreme temporary measures have to be taken.
>
> Yes, I am fully aware that my suggestions will probably result in heated
> arguments and marital discord. But we are groping around to discover
> something that works. I do not believe that this problem has no
> compromises or solutions. And I do believe that it IS a problem.
>
> Just talking to him, and being honest and "up front" with him probably
> isn't going to work. Agreed.
> The methods that I have suggested have worked for me. Keep in mind that I
> do not believe in extravagances such as charging up your credit cards,
> buying overpriced cars, going on shopping binges out of boredom, etc.
> Migrating to the other extreme is even worse than being a tightwad.
> Remember the fine expression, 'moderation in all things.'
>
> To the orginal poster, best of luck. You've got a hell of a job in front
> of you. But someone's got to do it! :)
> -Eve
Eve- congradulations. If it works for the two of you and both of you are
satisfied that's great. I, however, couldn't do this. I'd rather give
my partner the responsibility for his own virtue. It is too much
of a strain to rehabilitate someone. Lifes too short and I got my own
life to live. If I were the orginal poster I'd look somewhere else.
Jean Ann
kas...@helix.nih.gov
>>Perhaps you would only be happily married to a puppet on a string...
p...@acsu.buffalo.edu (P. C. Kilinskas) replies:
>Rather ironic you would say this, since it seems to be exactly what you want
>for yourself.
My husband was an abusive alcholic for the first five years of our
marriage. After his third drunk-driving arrest, endless court dates, loss
of driving privileges, and legally-enforced rehabilitation.....
Everyone in my family and all my friends wanted me to leave him. Not one
person was on his side. But I remembered some important vows that I
whispered long ago in front of a minister. And I know the meaning of
commitment.
So, instead, I supported his rehabilitation. And I'm glad that I did.
Because he hasn't had a drink in over two years, he has matured, he is now
very responsible, and is a real sweetheart too. What more could a girl
want? I'm not giving myself any credit -- he gets all the credit. He just
needed a push in the right direction.
Was change called for? You bet! Did I want a puppet? No way.
-Eve
.
Gary L Dare
>he is SO CHEAP! I think it's fair to split meals down the middle
Well, the first thing to do is to analyze the reasons for his spending
habits and his sense of fairness ... I'm economical myself (-; but for
getting the most mileage out of my dollar on quality items (i.e., shop
at pricey labels *but* at their outlet stores, like Lands' End --- and
to boot, during their sales --- rather than get junk at Wal-Mart that
lasts half as long) and also to spend the rest elsewhere (nice dinners
on the harbour, etc). My girlfriend and I used to split our bills 1/3
and 2/3 (I'd finish the stuff that she didn't like and left behind, so
I ate close to 2/3rds (-;); now, we fight over the cheque.
>(and he is under no financial duress whatsoever, and is actually
>quite well-off),
Ask him if there's a reason for it ... such as my outlet store rule
for dealing with my company's dress custom: if it's one or two years
old, and doesn't look good now, I was lucky not to have bought it at
full catalogue price when it first came out. Fashion over fad ...
plus, some at places the outlets' leftovers are *better* stuff than
you'd expect (I thought that Lands' End was a bore until moving to
Chicago and finding out, "Oh, so HERE is where all of their black
clothing has been hiding!").
Without skirting into the issue of trying to change another person,
this is certainly not an advocacy for that ... just that sometimes we
all lapse into behaviours that we would not care to have but no means
of detecting such ... maybe there are reasons, or maybe there is just
a yearning need for better reasons or strategies (e.g., someone wants
to be better with their own money, but has been quite awkward in going
about it; yes, I've put down some money on K-Mart stuff when I was an
early grad student, but found that I couldn't afford replacing them
again and again ... good lesson there ...).
Maybe he's been saving for a car or a house/condo? A boat? Learning
to fly? I know of a lot of people saving up for a dream hobby, but
they don't budget as well (i.e., impulse purchase at pricey malls,
etc) as they should be.
>Further, for my birthday, he built up his gift to be such a great,
>exciting thing: and he gave me a USED CD!
How badly beaten up was it? Was it even still in print? I do know
collectors who'd be thrilled to get a beat-up Broadway LP that has
been out of print for >20 years ... taste matters and if the CD was
used but the packaging near-mint, do consider that the music data bits
themselves don't wear out ... so unless it had the look of an elephant
stepping on it, I wouldn't worry on it. Ask him if there's a reason
for it ... such as my outlet store rule ... if he's not on some
rational plan, steer him a little by playing The Game and you might
even enjoy it, too ... it'll teach a lot of good life lessons (e.g.,
for personal travel, or even on business trips which are lined with
potential ripoffs ... if you ever work for a place that has profit-
sharing or pays a bit in stock, that is your money disappearing too).
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare Montreal Canadiens,
> g...@columbia.EDU 1993 Champions!
> g...@cunixc.BITNET La Coupe Stanley Cup
Seagull
>>kas...@helix.nih.gov writes:
>>>Perhaps you would only be happily married to a puppet on a string...
>
>p...@acsu.buffalo.edu (P. C. Kilinskas) replies:
>>Rather ironic you would say this, since it seems to be exactly what you want
>>for yourself.
>
>My husband was an abusive alcholic for the first five years of our
>marriage. After his third drunk-driving arrest, endless court dates, loss
>of driving privileges, and legally-enforced rehabilitation.....
Of course, alcoholism is hardly on the same level as being "cheap" person.
>Everyone in my family and all my friends wanted me to leave him. Not one
>person was on his side. But I remembered some important vows that I
>whispered long ago in front of a minister. And I know the meaning of
>commitment.
>
>So, instead, I supported his rehabilitation. And I'm glad that I did.
>Because he hasn't had a drink in over two years, he has matured, he is now
>very responsible, and is a real sweetheart too. What more could a girl
>want? I'm not giving myself any credit -- he gets all the credit. He just
>needed a push in the right direction.
>
>Was change called for? You bet! Did I want a puppet? No way.
If I may, I can offer an alternate story with a very different ending,
straight from my home town. Everyone told the wife (a good friend of
our family) to leave her husband and his abusive, alcoholic life. She
decided to stick around, even after he threatened her life.
A few months later, he shot her in the head and then shot himself.
The moral: it's hard to know when its right to stick around and try
to change things. What works for one person won't always work for another.
Of course, we're all offering personal experiences and opinions here,
anyway, so I guess the point is moot. But, I just wanted to play Devil's
Advocate.
Dan Whitaker
condemns the guy for somehow being flawed. If he's a cheepo then
it is probably because, for whatever reason, he believes that's
the way he should be. I've read all kinds of elaborate schemes
that are designed to change him. Most of the schemes were covert.
If he thinks it is important to him to be cheep then leave him
that way. If it is not too important to him, he can be convinced
to compromise if he cares for you enough to do so. Confront him
with your objections in the right spirit and if you find that he
is a stone wall then either chuck the realtionship or learn
to change your attitude such that you can live with his perceived
imperfection.
Dan
Edward Bertsch
[lots of intimate dirty laundry about her husband deleted]
>Was change called for? You bet! Did I want a puppet? No way.
Eve,
does your husband know you are airing his dirty laundry in front
of the entire world (potentially) ? How do you think he would
feel about it?
--
Edward A. Bertsch (e...@msc.edu) Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc.
Operations/User Services 1200 Washington Ave.So./Mpls MN 55104
+1 (612) 645-0168 voice mail [DISCLAIMER: MY OPINIONS; NOT MSCI'S]
"An armed society is a polite society" -Robert A. Heinlein
Gavin Flower
P. C. Kilinskas <p...@acsu.buffalo.edu> wrote:
>kas...@helix.nih.gov writes:
>
>>Perhaps you would only be happily married to a puppet on a string...
>
>for yourself.
I feel you are not reading carefully enough what she has written.
Though I admit I felt very dubious about some of things she had
suggested. However, each couple is quite different - she both knows
and loves her husband much better than ever you will!
I know there are some characteristics about myself that my Very
Special Woman would like to change, and I'm quite happy to change some
of those, despite it not being that easy. I'm not going into details,
except to say some (superficial?) people would think these are major
things, but the essential core of me is deeper still - so it in no way
threatens my ego. I love my VSW very much, so if I can change
something that is much more important to her than to me, about myself,
then I'll do my best to do so. This doesn't make her a puppet master!
Gavin
--
Tomorrow's Society | flow...@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Depends on ----------------------------
Today's Children - help us raise them properly!
******* These comments have no known correlation with dept. policy! *******
Sandra Rollins
weekend, and my SO & I were just talking about this stuff. After 12
years together, somehow it's just not as important as it once was.
Our third Christmas together, I had just moved into my first apartment.
I had been hinting about *wanting* some jewelry, and *needing* a vacuum
cleaner. Well, imagine my dismay when _my mom_ bought me the jewelry,
and eminently practical Dave bought me the vacuum cleaner! He couldn't
understand why I was upset, and kept repeating "But you SAID you needed
one!" Men.... :^) We still make references to this (i.e., "Sorry, Dave,
but that's a vacuum cleaner gift.")
Of course, he redeemed himself the following Christmas. He quietly pushed
my car out of the carport in the complex, used his key to drive it
home, where he then stayed up most of the night installing a new
AM/FM cassette player. When I got to the car on Xmas morning to drive
to his parents, there was a new cassette on the driver's seat, complete
with a mushy note. Expressing my feelings sure worked out in the long run.
My point: communication is sometimes hard, sometimes the position or
feelings may seem completely irrational to the other, but it's a start!
We're still not perfect, but it certainly was a bonding experience to
discuss this issue.
I also second a previous poster's comment about gift-giving sometimes
demonstrating a certain level of consideration. I would assume that your
problem is not necessarily with the money or cost of the gifts; perhaps
your irritation and anger arise from a feeling that your SO is not sensitive
to your needs, including those of gift-giving.
Cheapness can be pervasive; if he is cheap in terms of affection, time and
consideration, find someone else. If the cheapness is only in relation
to gifts, lighten up a bit. Is his cheapness _caused_ by something you
can identify? His upbringing? Real lack of money? Lack of imagination
as to what you might like? Lack of inspiration? It's hard to stay
creative in gift-giving over a long period of time; giving gifts is not
the only solution.
We've considered contributing to a vacation fund for ourselves rather than
buying gifts; I'd rather make memories than get yet another blouse. Would
something like this be helpful?
Anyway, hope this gives you some ideas. let us know what happens!
Sandi
Thomas Krueger
women any practical gift?
My way of doing it is to make something or have something made if possible.
If not, find something old and cool as hell, or get a book.
- Tom
--
Thomas Krueger UW-Milwaukee Engineering Electronics Shop
t...@csd4.csd.uwm.edu +1 (414) 229-5172
Moderator: rec.audio.high-end, Info-Fortune, and Mystery mailing lists
T
the "from the heart" respect you seem to hold for your husband. I SALUTE YOU.
Thank you for this opportunity.
T.
kas...@helix.nih.gov
>does your husband know you are airing his dirty laundry in front
>of the entire world (potentially) ? How do you think he would
>feel about it?
OOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPSSSSS!!!! Gosh, Ed, I sure wish that you'd e-mailed your
message to me pesonally instead of embarrassing me in front of the whole
wide world. : )
Just kidding! You made a valid point. (Of course I cleared it with him
first.)
-Eve
.
T. J. Olney
>So from all these postings we can conclude that men better not ever get
>women any practical gift?
Even though the research into consumer gift giving suggests that this
is the state of the world, it reflects the same set of socialization
values as the "Beauty Myth" and reflects a long, substantial, and most
effective effort to commercialize romance. (Think about where the
idea that a man needs to spend two months salary on a diamond to prove
his love, and the related idea that the size of the diamond represents
the extent of his love. If you don't know already, it was invented by
the N.W. Ayer advertising agency at the request of the DeBeers diamond
syndicate.)
Therefore, don't conclude that at all. If a woman can't appreciate a
practical gift and you are the kind of person who believes in giving
practical gifts for whatever reason, then the recipient is the one
being insensitive if they don't appreciate the gift.
I suggest that if money is tight (real or perceived) give inexpensive
impractical things, and save the money for the practical stuff. It
helps to after the fact remind the recipient how nice it is to have
the new XX and how much better life is now that they have it.
I did like the bonding aspect of the "misunderstanding" that occurred,
and hope that others will be able to have the same experiences no
matter what gifts they choose.
--
TJ Olney -- Associate Professor of Marketing -- Western Washington University
------------ Once in a while you'll get shown the light --------------
----- In the strangest of places if you look at it right -----
Beth Weiss
|> t...@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Thomas Krueger) writes:
|>
|> >So from all these postings we can conclude that men better not ever get
|> >women any practical gift?
|>
|> practical gift and you are the kind of person who believes in giving
|> practical gifts for whatever reason, then the recipient is the one
|> being insensitive if they don't appreciate the gift.
I have to disagree with the Tom's conclusion as well, but that
doesn't mean I agree with T.J's.
I don't find the issue to be practical vs frivolous at all. I find the
issue to be whether or not the person made a choice that reflected the
recipient's taste and desires and feelings.
There are lots of practical gifts that truly reflect the feelings of
the recipient. If my husband decided to give me a new sewing machine
for my birthday, I'd be ecstatic. If he decided to give me a new
vacuum cleaner, I'd be pretty depressed about it (he's the one who's
ruining it by using it as a Shop Vac). In fact, I did get a sewing
machine for my birthday last year (I picked it out, but it was still
a birthday gift)--I love it, I use it all the time, and like it all
the more for being able to think of it as a gift from my husband.
Nothing would make me like a vacuum cleaner.
Last year for Christmas, my husband gave me a sweater. That's certainly
a practical, useful gift--I wore it often last winter. But it was also
something that showed he knew what I liked, and styles that appealed to
me, and that he was thinking of _me_ when he picked it out, rather than
just pulling something off of the shelf. (I say this even though I
was glad he saved the receipt--I had to exchange it for one size larger)
If my husband were to say "I buy practical gifts, and you're insensitive
if you don't appreciate them" while giving me cotton underwear and
vacuum cleaners, I would consider that pretty insensitive. There's no
purpose in fighting over which is more insensitive--me not appreciating
them, or him not wanting to put more effort into finding practical
gifts that I'd appreciate--but the fact is neither of us would be happy.
I thought of a couple of practical gifts that I've received that I've
really liked: clothes, a new racquetball racquet, a punch bowl, a cake
keeper. Personally, I think some jewelery is really practical--a watch,
a necklace or earrings that go with a particular outfit. Once my husband
took me shopping for my birthday--we bought me new shoes. But he was
patient and acted as if he was enjoying himself--and that was a pretty
nice shopping change!
For my husband's birthday next month, he's going to get a Shop Vac. (Any
of you who know him, please don't tell him :-) Practical? Absolutely.
Will he like it? Absolutely. I think someone buying a gift should
concentrate on the "Will it be liked?" question, but that doesn't
rule out it being practical.
--Beth Weiss
bwe...@cs.arizona.edu
Michal Leah Peri
>So from all these postings we can conclude that men better not ever get
>women any practical gift?
Any gift is fine, so long as it is accompanied by chocolate and/or
flowers.
--
-- Michal
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