Intersexuality mailing list
Miss E C Bryant
tr...@whatever.cs.jhu.edu (Denise Tree) writes:
>
>
> Intersex Newsletter/Mailing list
>
> I am looking for people who might be interested
> in participating in a mailing list for those who
> are biologically intersexed, and friends. Included
> specifically are syndromes such as the following:
>
> Various forms of androgen insensitivity syndrome
>
> Congenital adrenal hyperplasia
>
> Progestin induced androgenization
>
> Mixed gonadal histology
>
> and others.
>
> I would like the list to be oriented toward peer support
> and the sharing of experiences and histories: the discussion
> of the social, personal and biological experiences of those
> who were born intersexed.
>
> If you are interested please write to:
>
> Kira Triea
> tr...@cs.jhu.edu
>
>
>
its no good, im obviously not bright enough for this newsgroup. unfair!
nobody said you had to be an intellectual to join!
does anybody know what this actually _means_?
--
"For starters I'll have Who, What, When and Where. And then Whither, Whether,
Whence and Wherefore to follow, and one big side-order of Why."
Lizzy Bryant - ts...@csv.warwick.ac.uk - The Minotaur.
"We must have courage, faith and chocolate fudge cake"
Albert Lunde
>In article <CBvs1...@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>,
> tr...@whatever.cs.jhu.edu (Denise Tree) writes:
>> Intersex Newsletter/Mailing list
>> I am looking for people who might be interested
>> in participating in a mailing list for those who
>> are biologically intersexed, and friends. Included
>> specifically are syndromes such as the following:
>>
>> Various forms of androgen insensitivity syndrome
>> Congenital adrenal hyperplasia
>> Progestin induced androgenization
>> Mixed gonadal histology
>> and others.
>>
>> I would like the list to be oriented toward peer support
>> and the sharing of experiences and histories: the discussion
>> of the social, personal and biological experiences of those
>> who were born intersexed.
>>
>> If you are interested please write to:
>> Kira Triea
>> tr...@cs.jhu.edu
>its no good, im obviously not bright enough for this newsgroup. unfair!
>nobody said you had to be an intellectual to join!
>does anybody know what this actually _means_?
This seems to refer to people who are born with a mix of male and female
physical characteristics (either visible or hormonal) -- what are also
called hermaphrodies (though this word has further connotations).
(This might be contrasted with transexual/trangender people,
most of whom start out with no diagnosed physical abnormalities.)
For descriptions of some of the conditions listed above, see John
Money's book "Gay, Straight, and In-between" -- as I recall he discusses
them in the context of the biological basis of sex differences.
There is also a short article in "Bisexuality: A Reader and Sourcebook"
ed. Tom Geller -- 'Normal and Atypical Gender Differentiation'.
--
Albert Lunde | Interfaith | *Y*Y* "A branch on the
Albert...@nwu.edu | Bisexual | *Y* tree of life"
| Feminist |.......|.........................
Alan Hamilton
> This seems to refer to people who are born with a mix of male and female
> physical characteristics (either visible or hormonal) -- what are also
> called hermaphrodies (though this word has further connotations).
Yes. My understanding is that the number of people who match the
classical "hermaphrodite" definition (someone with both "male" and
"female" genitals) is vanishingly small (though I may find out
otherwise by joining this list).
It turns out that 4% or more (I think according to John Money, the
reference Albert gave) of people are born with bodies which do not
match the range of "male" and "female" defined by this society. These
are classed as abnormal according to current medical guidelines, and
Kira has listed several of these terms:
>> Various forms of androgen insensitivity syndrome
>> Congenital adrenal hyperplasia
>> Progestin induced androgenization
>> Mixed gonadal histology
I don't understand all these terms, but the following is what I think
I know about them.
'Mixed gonadal histology' probably refers to the fact that some
people's gonad tissue develops partly toward testicles and partly
toward ovaries (since both kinds of tissue develop from the same
starting point). One teste may develop one way and the other the
other way, or one teste may have tissue of both types.
"Progestin induced androgenization" sounds like the hormone progestin
in the womb has caused someone who is genetically XX (most common
genetic combination of chromosomes for female) to develop genitals
which appear male (or perhaps just more male-like, like a
larger/longer than average clitoris).
In situations where the infant's genitals do not fall within this
society's definition of the "normal" range for "male" and "female",
many doctors recommend surgical modification of the genitals. In
other words, they are "cut to fit." Among other things, someone I
talked to in the San Francisco Bay Area told me of a woman in her
class who was born with a 4-inch clitoris. The medical establishment
performed a clitorectomy which made her look "normal" but also
deprived her of clitoral sensation. Some people see this as allowing
children to fit in with their peers, others see it as unwarranted
mutilation.
Other differences may not come to light until puberty. A young person
whose body fits society's norms for "male," who has been raised as a
man and has developed a masculine gender identity may at puberty find
his breasts developing like a woman's. Because our society does not
address the varieties of human physical differences very thoroughly,
he will probably have had no warning that this is possible, and endure
sigificant trauma because of it.
My hope is that more information will increase people's comfort with
people who are physically different from them, and decrease the amount
of effort that goes into maintaining the "male" and "female"
categories as carefully separated and distinct, and the amount of
energy and trauma which people experience in trying to fit in with
these arbitrary definitions.
> (This might be contrasted with transexual/trangender people,
> most of whom start out with no diagnosed physical abnormalities.)
<Gently> The phrasing "abnormalities" is offensive, since "abnormal"
in this society is invested with such negative connotations. Of
course, this *is* the terminology used by the medical establishment in
dealing with physical differences, and not necessarily your own
phrasing.
Certainly 4% is no less "normal" in numbers than the figures used in
the Janis Report (sp?) for queers, however poor or limited their
definition of homosexual/gay/lesbian/bi may be. I personally prefer
to say that intersexed people's bodies do not fit the arbitrary
categories created by this society for what a "male" or "female"
person "should be."
-Alan
Kay Dekker
Sorry to be picky, Alan, but as Etymology spod of soc.bi... I just
*have* to do it ... :)
>starting point). One teste may develop one way and the other the
>other way, or one teste may have tissue of both types.
Testis; pl testes. Latin, y'know.
Kay
--
Kay Dekker - the Vestigial Virgin of soc.bi
N4689 l-- a- f- n- e-- d m+ b g v+ u++ w+- (thanks, Candide!)
Sean Doran
>>starting point). One teste may develop one way and the other the
>>other way, or one teste may have tissue of both types.
>Testis; pl testes. Latin, y'know.
Tch! Such testiness.
Sean. (bareing witness to the soc.bi grammar queen cabal)
Muffy Barkocy
In article <CBy4K...@uunet.ca> s...@uunet.ca (Sean Doran) writes:
> Sean. (bareing witness to the soc.bi grammar queen cabal)
Hey, which witness did you bare? And what did they witness?
Muffy
--
Muffy Barkocy |~You can be active/with the activists or/
mu...@remarque.berkeley.edu | sleeping/with the sleepers/while you're
"amorous inclinations"? Aha! I'm | waiting/for the great leap forward~
not "not straight," I'm *inclined*.| - Billy Bragg
Piglet
Muffy Barkocy <mu...@remarque.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>In article <CBy4K...@uunet.ca> s...@uunet.ca (Sean Doran) writes:
>> Sean. (bareing witness to the soc.bi grammar queen cabal)
>Hey, which witness did you bare? And what did they witness?
Damn! She beat me to it. I gotta get up early in the morning to
beat Muffy. (Heh.) You missed a spelling flame, though -- Hey,
Sean -- it's BARING!!! (Note careful choice of first vowel.)
Piglet, who _still_ doesn't know if she's flying to Santa Barbara
this weekend or not, but _promises_ to let the other coast
know as soon as she does
Sean Doran
>Hey, which witness did you bare? And what did they witness?
The left one. And I'm not sure, but the expressions on their faces
told me it was a Kodak moment.
Sean.
Mr G Toal
>
>>>starting point). One teste may develop one way and the other the
>>>other way, or one teste may have tissue of both types.
>
>>Testis; pl testes. Latin, y'know.
>
>Tch! Such testiness.
Get a grip on yourself man. Remember, 'Testy Kills'.
> Sean. (bareing witness to the soc.bi grammar queen cabal)
Be careful what you bare in public Sean...
G
Sean Doran
>Damn! She beat me to it. I gotta get up early in the morning to
>beat Muffy.
Or stay up really late...
> (Heh.) You missed a spelling flame, though -- Hey,
>Sean -- it's BARING!!! (Note careful choice of first vowel.)
Damn. It was a typo. Honest. It was a typo.
Sean. (looking all honest and innocent)
Wayne Bryant
>nobody said you had to be an intellectual to join!
>does anybody know what this actually _means_?
I have been in a close relationship with an intersex person for quite some
time and we've had a number of long (and often painful) discussions on the
topic. Alan Hamilton's description of the various intersex types was
extremely good. If the medical community in general had even *his* level
of understanding of the subject (and Alan is just a software bear, like me),
there would be far fewer mutilations in the name of "normality".
Wayne
Albert Lunde
>In article <MUFFY.93A...@remarque.berkeley.edu>,
>Muffy Barkocy <mu...@remarque.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>In article <CBy4K...@uunet.ca> s...@uunet.ca (Sean Doran) writes:
>>> Sean. (bareing witness to the soc.bi grammar queen cabal)
>
>>Hey, which witness did you bare? And what did they witness?
>
>Damn! She beat me to it. I gotta get up early in the morning to
>beat Muffy. (Heh.) You missed a spelling flame, though -- Hey,
>Sean -- it's BARING!!! (Note careful choice of first vowel.)
Or perhaps "bearing" for ursine folk.
;)
Wayne Bryant
>In article <ALAN.93Au...@pluto.osf.org> al...@osf.org (Alan Hamilton) writes:
>
>Sorry to be picky, Alan, but as Etymology spod of soc.bi... I just
>*have* to do it ... :)
>
>>starting point). One teste may develop one way and the other the
>>other way, or one teste may have tissue of both types.
>
>Testis; pl testes. Latin, y'know.
Alan,
Please clean up your Latin. You know how testy these academic types
can be. ;-)
Wayne
Sean Doran
>Get a grip on yourself man.
And just what part of myself should I get a grip on, eh?
>Remember, 'Testy Kills'.
Oh! You have a _filthy_ mind, Mr. Toal!
>Be careful what you bare in public Sean...
Most of the time it'll likely be my teeth.
Sean.
Muffy Barkocy
>Muffy Barkocy <mu...@remarque.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>In article <CBy4K...@uunet.ca> s...@uunet.ca (Sean Doran) writes:
>>>>Sean. (bareing witness to the soc.bi grammar queen cabal)
>>Hey, which witness did you bare? And what did they witness?
>Damn! She beat me to it. I gotta get up early in the morning to
>beat Muffy. (Heh.) You missed a spelling flame, though -- Hey,
>Sean -- it's BARING!!! (Note careful choice of first vowel.)
Actually, it's "BEARING" (which, nonetheless, has nothing to do with
large furry creatures).
Anyway, I'm not into being beaten...*SMILE*...
Muffy
--
Muffy Barkocy - mu...@informix.com |~The faceless wonder of integrity/evades
OR uunet!infmx!muffy | you now/(to put it nicely)/and if I look
"amorous inclinations"? Aha! I'm | like your problem/you look like a/broken
not "not straight," I'm *inclined*.| promise to me..." - disappear fear
Kay Dekker
But Sean, it makes a vas deferens to me, really. And I'm not a
grammar queen - I'm a pedantophile...
smooches,
Sean Doran
unswerving, perineal wit of Kay, who writes:
>But Sean, it makes a vas deferens to me, really. And I'm not a
>grammar queen - I'm a pedantophile...
Darn, and I can't spell for beans.
Sean. (who _used_ to have an ant farm; does that count?)