Get the FAQ out of here
Manohar Kanuri
Perish forbid we do something original rather than have a
Six-Pack of answered questions for the curious.
Yeah, taking the fun out of it all! Think of all the witticisms that
would be lost forever when a newcomer waddles in and starts going -
do you think I am and do you it is etc. - and all we do is blare at
him/her in grunting unison - LOOK AT THE FAQ! blah....encouraging a
nation of pigeon-holers if you ask me.
So, how many of you prefer Queer over Bisexual?
I think I prefer something omnibus like Queer, except that its current
usage tends to be associated mainly with gay/lesbian. But hey! let's
not start looking for a substitute for queer now! Maybe just make it
more inclusive with greater usage?
How many of you believe we should be included in
Gay rights movement as "Bisexual"?
Well, I don't know about the three blokes who've stepped out for some
tea, but the 14 of me are unanimous in saying yes.....that I don't
understand your question fully is a secret I'm keeping from the other 16.
Does Gay or Queer cover who we are?
Per their current usages - no.
Manohar
Tim Pierce
>So, how many of you prefer Queer over Bisexual?
Prefer? I like them both, in different contexts.
>How many of you believe we should be included in
>Gay rights movement as "Bisexual"?
Here!
>Does Gay or Queer cover who we are?
Queer, yes. As for "Gay," I really don't think it is for me. It
might be arguable whether "Gay" is usually meant to describe anyone
who has same-sex attractions, or only those who are EXCLUSIVELY
attracted to members of their own gender, but to me, there is no
question that it is the latter. Identifying myself as "Gay," without
qualification, simply feels like it is a misrepresentation of who I
am.
--
____ Tim Pierce / "I know, very un PC of me to say such
\ / pie...@husc.harvard.edu / things, but gosh, I care deeply about
\/ (aka twpi...@amherst.edu) / their feelings." -- Robert Kelly
Robert Kelly
Perish forbid we do something original rather than have a
Six-Pack of answered questions for the curious.
So, how many of you prefer Queer over Bisexual?
How many of you believe we should be included in
Gay rights movement as "Bisexual"?
Does Gay or Queer cover who we are?
Just curious....
"He/She isn't Heterosexual/Homosexual, she/he just haven't had a REAL
Man/Woman yet!"
- The Straight/Homosexual Last Word Dept.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Kelly
rke...@triton.unm.edu
david carlton
> So, how many of you prefer Queer over Bisexual?
Not I.
> How many of you believe we should be included in
> Gay rights movement as "Bisexual"?
I do.
> Does Gay or Queer cover who we are?
I prefer 'gay' as the blanket term.
david carlton
car...@husc.harvard.edu
Finally, Zippy drives his 1958 RAMBLER METROPOLITAN into the
faculty dining room.
Paul Crowley
arrive wielding all-round silliness.
In article <CARLTON.91...@husc10.harvard.edu> car...@husc10.harvard.edu (david carlton) writes:
>In article <d0l...@lynx.unm.edu>, rke...@triton.unm.edu (Robert Kelly) writes:
>
>> So, how many of you prefer Queer over Bisexual?
See .sig...
____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley p...@castle.ed.ac.uk \ /
/\__/ Part straight. Part gay. All queer. \/
"J'accuse, buster. I'm charging you with intellectual turpitude and
taking you in. " -- Gene Ward Smith (gsm...@concour.cs.concordia.ca)
Sara Hopkins
>Haha! With a flash of over-the-top special effects, the Edinburgh Crew
>arrive wielding all-round silliness.
Speak for yourself dear.
>>> So, how many of you prefer Queer over Bisexual?
>
>See .sig...
> ____
>\/ o\ Paul Crowley p...@castle.ed.ac.uk \ /
>/\__/ Part straight. Part gay. All queer. \/
Much though I like Paul's sig, it's still too close to the times when
the word "queer" was an insult for me to feel comfortable with it.
Actually I don't like the word bisexual much, I think we could do with
some nice slang words for this, but gay/lesbian/queer don't describe
what I am. Paraphrasing Paul, I would say "Part straight. Part
lesbian. All me." Or something.
Sara
--
>{8-) Sara (-8}< Geography Dept|Oho! So my evil stepmother returns to cheat
Edinburgh University, Drummond St|me out of my inheritance. Well it won't work!
Edinburgh, EH8 9XP, Scotland, UK|These frogs are mine, you hear me! They're
*** sa...@geovax.ed.ac.uk *** |all mine! __ uBIquitous __ __ BYKEr __
Sonja Kueppers
>
>So, how many of you prefer Queer over Bisexual?
I have recently been trying to come up with some slogans for a
visibility campaign for the Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Student
Alliance here on campus. The biggest problem I've come across
is that of terminology.
I like the word Queer as an inclusive term. I don't like the word
Gay so much, because it's always meant more "gay men, and maybe
lesbians, but barely a hint of bisexuals" to me than Queer does.
I think part of it is that Queer is so shocking, that you think
a little more about what it means.
In addition, I think of "queer" as being more of a political/lifestyle
kind of thing than "gay" or "bisexual".
However, Queer doesn't really seem right for a button slogan, because
the straight community thinks of it as so derogatory. *sigh*
On the other hand, "bisexual" is a word which also has many applications.
Just because sometimes you want to be inclusive, doesn't mean that you
always do.
>How many of you believe we should be included in
>Gay rights movement as "Bisexual"?
Definitely. I think it's important to increase awareness of bisexual
people, both in and out of the LGB community.
This is why I put a little "Bi" in my .sig. I didn't think it was good
enough to say, "I'm not straight." I felt that it was important to
define myself further for the purpose of increasing people's awareness
of the existence of bisexual people.
>Does Gay or Queer cover who we are?
Any term that you feel covers you, does. "Queer" suits me just fine.
"Gay" doesn't. However, I know many bisexual people who are *not*
"queer"...not just because they don't fit into my idea of queer, but
they don't fit into their own idea of queer either.
If anyone has any good ideas for button slogans/posters, please
don't hesitate to ship them my way.
-Sonja
-----------------------------Sonja Kueppers------------------------------
|SEK@PSUVM (bitnet) ____ "Sex should be friendly. Otherwise|
|S...@PSUVM.psu.edu \bi/ stick to mechanical toys; it's |
|MaBellNet: (814) 867-1805 \/ more sanitary." TEFL, Heinlein |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ciaran McHale
>I have recently been trying to come up with some slogans for a
>visibility campaign for the Lesbian, Gay, and Bisexual Student
>Alliance here on campus. The biggest problem I've come across
>is that of terminology.
>If anyone has any good ideas for button slogans/posters, please
>don't hesitate to ship them my way.
Whenever I see a slogan that might be good on a button badge or a
t-shirt, I save it. Ditto for march slogans. Here's my list so far.
- Two stick figures under a tree, labelled as your choice
of "Adam and Steve" or "Amy and Eve."
- Are you going to come quietly or do I have to use earmuffs?
- Chez moi ou chez vous?
- Don't dare assume I'm straight
- How *dare* you assume I'm straight
- Assume nothing
- Bi the way, don't assume I'm gay
- Bisexual and proud to be lesbian/gay
- Gay/Bisexual Pride (with triangle in background)
- Happy bi nature
- Blatently bisexual
- Bi
- Bi boy
- God is an Equal-Opportunity Lover
- Equal-Opportunity Lover
- Biphobia shield
- Queer as Fuck
- Absolutetly queer
- faggot with attitude
- dyke with attitude
- Bent is best
- I <pink triangle> (wo)men
- Glad/Proud to be Gay/bi/lesbian
- Gay & Proud
- Gay rights now
- Gay rights are human rights
- Gay & Catholic
- Gay is good/great
- Have a gay day
- Closets are for clothes
- Out of the closet and into the street
- "Queens will not be pawns"---Derek Jarman
- Professional/Militant/Practicing Homosexual
- Keep your laws off my body
- Love is not a crime
- I love my pretend family
- I survived a Catholic education
- I'm an incurable romantic homosexual
- I'm a woman's woman
- I'm a man's man
- A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle
- I'm not a lesbian but my girlfriend is
- I'm not gay but my boyfriend is
- Pretend family member
- Please do not tease or feed the straights
- Homophobia is a social disease
- The moral majority is neither
- That's _MR_ Fag to you
- Smile if you're gay
- I'm out. Are you?
- U2?
- Yes, me 2
- I'm one too
- 2-4-6-8 How do you know your husband's straight?
- 3-5-7-9 Your wife might be les-bi-ine
- 2-4-6-8 Gay's twice as good as straight
- 3-5-7-9 Lesbians are quite divine
- Nobody knows I'm gay
- Everybody knows I'm gay
- Let's go straight bashing
- God loves me the way I am---Gay
- I'm straight, but it might be just a phase
- We're here, we're queer, get used to it
- We're here, we're queer and we're not going shopping
- We're here, we're queer, we're fabulous
- We are everywhere
- I'm here, I'm queer and I fuck (wo)men too
- Picture of a brain with a pink triangle in it. Underneath, the
caption reads "It's a brain thing."
- Picture of a brain and underneath the caption reads "How big is yours?"
- "My hypothalmus is the only thing small about me."
- Hey hey! ho ho! homophobia's got to GO!
- We're here, we're queer, we're not going to disappear
- Suck my dick, lick my clit, homophobia's got to quit
- Wilson fucked us, now we're sore. We won't take his shit no more
- What do we want? Gay/equal/queer rights!----When do want 'em? Now!
- We're here, we're queer, and so are some of you
This chant is usually done when the march passes by a
lot of spectators and it's usually accompanied by
gestures. We're here (point to the ground), we're queer
(point to oneself), and so are some of you (point at
the spectators). The "we're here, we're queer, we're
fabulous, get used to it" chant is also often
accompanied by gestures -- in this case, you throw both
arms up in the air a la Las Vegas showgirls on the
"we're fabulous" line. Not everyone does it, but it can
be amusing when a lot do.
- Gimme an O
O!
Gimme another O
O!
Gimme another O
O!
Whadda you got?
[screaming] Ooo!
- We're Queer, we're wet, we're really upset!
- Wilson! You liar! We'll set your ass on fire!
Ciaran.
--
Ciaran McHale "It pays to be pedantic" ----
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland. \bi/
Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-772204 \/
Telex: 93782 TCD EI email: cjmc...@cs.tcd.ie
Palmer Davis
No! No! No! A thousand times, no!
>How many of you believe we should be included in
>Gay rights movement as "Bisexual"?
Included, no. Allied with, maybe. I assume that you're asking if we
should be absorbed into the GL community rather than develop an identity
of our own. Not only would that be a bad idea, but it's really not up
to us as to whether we'd be accepted or not. And since I encounter a
good deal more hostility about my sexuality from gay friends and
acquaintances than from straight ones, I rather doubt it.
If you meant ``should we be accepted'', then by all means, yes. But being
``included'' in the GL community shouldn't be used as an excuse to argue
against our forming a community of our own.
>Does Gay or Queer cover who we are?
That depends on your definition of ``we''. You're perfectly welcome
to attempt to find a subset of the bisexual community that those terms
will cover. But you can count me out.
I'm sure that you will find quite a large number of bisexuals who will
identify with those terms, however. The ``bisexual community'', whatever
that means at this point, is sufficiently large and diverse that you
really can't talk about a ``we'' or an ``us'' except in the most general
of terms. Which is why I try to only speak for myself. I notice, however,
that I fall into the trap of talking about what ``we'' should do in my
answer to the second question. What I mean by ``us'' is ``me and anyone
who feels like agreeing with me on this point.''
I s'pose the best way to deal with this question is to imagine a Venn
diagram with three sets G, Q, and B, which mutually overlap. The
intersection of all three sets is nonempty, as are the intersections of
any two. And there exist portions of each set that do not overlap either
of the other two. But not all elements of B are contained in either G
or Q.
-- PTD --
--
Palmer Davis, CWRU INS Mac/UNIX Guy <da...@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Life is short.
Paul Crowley
>- I'm not a lesbian but my girlfriend is
>- I'm not gay but my boyfriend is
I want a badge that reads
/-------------------------------------------------------\
/ IIIIII '' MM MM GGGG AA YY YY !! \
| II '' MMMM MMMM GG AA AA YY YY !! |
| II MM MM MM GG AAAAAA YYYY !! |
| II MM MM GG GG AA AA YY |
| IIIIII MM MM GGGG AA AA YY !! |
| |
\ and so is my girlfriend. /
\-------------------------------------------------------/
____
\/ o\ Paul Crowley p...@castle.ed.ac.uk \ /
/\__/ Part straight. Part gay. All queer. \/
KirK
>In article <d0l...@lynx.unm.edu>, rke...@triton.unm.edu (Robert Kelly) says:
>>
>>So, how many of you prefer Queer over Bisexual?
IMSVHO, I prefer Bi over both but Queer will do in a pinch.
>I like the word Queer as an inclusive term. I don't like the word
>Gay so much, because it's always meant more "gay men, and maybe
>lesbians, but barely a hint of bisexuals" to me than Queer does.
>I think part of it is that Queer is so shocking, that you think
>a little more about what it means.
>
Of course I've met some gay men who will argue that Queer does not include
bi people but then there are men (not necessarily gay) who will argue anything.
Women also BTW. (PC addendum.)
>In addition, I think of "queer" as being more of a political/lifestyle
>kind of thing than "gay" or "bisexual".
Then who is queer, who isn't queer. (Who knows, maybe there will be a comercial
that starts with the line "What is Queer?")
>However, Queer doesn't really seem right for a button slogan, because
>the straight community thinks of it as so derogatory. *sigh*
>
I thought that was the point. Kinda like the rock groups that put satanic
symbols on record covers. Shock value is a wonderful thing.
>On the other hand, "bisexual" is a word which also has many applications.
>Just because sometimes you want to be inclusive, doesn't mean that you
>always do.
Mabe we can combine the two into "Beer?"
>>How many of you believe we should be included in
>>Gay rights movement as "Bisexual"?
>
It is kinda depressing when I go into the "gay/lesbian" section of a major
chain bookstore and see one title with the word "bisexual." Gee, I don't
mean to sound to PC but could we get a mention in somewhere? Even maybe
a footnote. It seems like the major attention that we get as been involved
with the AIDS epidemic.
>>Does Gay or Queer cover who we are?
>
Gay doesn't work for me mainly because it sounds too, shall we say, cute.
Partly because it used to mean happy and partly because there are so few
good words that rhyme with it. (may, day, pay, sway, nea, say, cray, play,
the only good one that I can think of is flay.) We need a term that will strike
fear into the hearts of mice and men alike.
Actually this arguement reminds me of a line from a recent comic book.
"Quit calling us Mutants. How the hell are we supposed to get respect if
you keep calling us a term synonymous with defective?"
"Well what would you rather be called?"
"Geneticly challenged, Geeche for short."
_X-Factor #75
How about these for inclusive terms.
Sexually Challenged
Sexually Diferent
Romanticly Different
Men/Women/people of differing sexual attraction
Alternately sexual
different
(Tounge firmly between both cheeks of course.)
>
>-Sonja
>-----------------------------Sonja Kueppers------------------------------
>|SEK@PSUVM (bitnet) ____ "Sex should be friendly. Otherwise|
>|S...@PSUVM.psu.edu \bi/ stick to mechanical toys; it's |
>|MaBellNet: (814) 867-1805 \/ more sanitary." TEFL, Heinlein |
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Feh, there is nothing like a good mutually consensual and playfully violent
rape fantasy to get the juices flowing of a morning.
KirK
(flakbait on isca and quartz)
Tim Pierce
>If you meant ``should we be accepted'', then by all means, yes. But being
>``included'' in the GL community shouldn't be used as an excuse to argue
>against our forming a community of our own.
Certainly not, but by the same token, the need to build our own
community shouldn't be used as an excuse against inclusion with the
gay & lesbian community.
Last of the Dinosaurs
Many words have a `public' sense and also special senses that depend
on context. For example, the word `run' in its general, `public' sense
means something very different from the word `run' in its technical
baseball sense, although you can see how a baseball run is related to
the `public' idea of `running'.
Similarly, `gay' has a public meaning and also a special meaning.
However, in recent years, the public meaning has been almost completely
replaced by the special meaning. `gay' no longer means `cheerful'; it
means `homosexual'. That seems like a shame, but there it is.
`queer' has a public sense of `deviating from the expected norm' or
`eccentric' or `unconventional', and also a special meaning that has
something to do with sexual orientation.
It seems to me that in most contexts, however, what people mean by
`queer' is something very close to the public sense. When I say I am
`queer', for example, I mean mostly that I am eccentric and
unconventional and that I deviate from the expected norm, and I feel
less that I am making a specific statement about the deployment of my
penis.
Part of the reason I like to call myself `queer', then, is to say
that I am concerned not so much with bisexual peoples' freedom to be
bisexual, but rather with all eccentric peoples' fredom to be eccentric.
I think this is important. It is not good enough to liberate bisexual
people; I want everyone to have the freedom to act in whatever harmless
peculiar way they would like to, no matter what their sexual
orientation.
To demand rights and freedom for `queers' is a much bigger demand
than to demand rights and freedom for gayslesbiansandbisexuals. It is a
demand for acceptance of diversity, for people's freedom to be different
from one another. It is not just a demand for freedom to kiss whom I
want to.
It seems to me that when self-identified `queers' use the word
`queer', they tend to use it in this inclusive way. The impression I
have is that `queer' includes gays, lesbians, bisexuals, heterosexuals,
melon fetishists, albanian dwarfs. I think this is a good thing. If I
were heterosexual, I might feel peculiar about identifying as `gay',
because `gay' seems to mean `homosexual,' and, more and more, `male
homosexual'. However, if I were heterosexual, I think I would still be
willing to identify myself as `queer', because, well, I *am* queer, not
in any specialized sexual sense, but in the public sense.
That is why I like the word `queer'.
--
Nihil tam absurde dici potest, quod non dicatur ab aliquo philosophorum.
Mark-Jason Dominus m...@central.cis.upenn.edu
Rod Williams
>>>How many of you believe we should be included in
>>>Gay rights movement as "Bisexual"?
>It is kinda depressing when I go into the "gay/lesbian" section of a major
>chain bookstore and see one title with the word "bisexual." Gee, I don't
>mean to sound to PC but could we get a mention in somewhere? Even maybe
>a footnote. It seems like the major attention that we get as been involved
>with the AIDS epidemic.
There are gay/lesbian sections in bookstores because
gay men and lesbians who write, publish and buy books
*made*it*happen*.
That's the key to bisexual inclusion -- come out and
make it happen! No one is going to do you any favors.
Gay men didn't include lesbians in Gay Rights until
*lesbians* insisted on it. Likewise, lesbians and gay
men won't include bisexuals until *bis* insist on it,
loudly and vociferously. Once you figure this out,
you can even expand the theory to imagine how the
straight world will eventually come to grips with the
idea that the world ain't so straight...
--
~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"~"
rod williams - pacific*bell - san francisco - california
rjw...@pacbell.com (415) 542-6015
the Crisco Kid
>>On the other hand, "bisexual" is a word which also has many applications.
>>Just because sometimes you want to be inclusive, doesn't mean that you
>>always do.
>
>Mabe we can combine the two into "Beer?"
Just as long as it's not that nasty cold fizzy lager-type stuff. I'd
prefer some Theakstone's "Old Peculier" (yep, that *is* how it's spelled).
>Gay doesn't work for me mainly because it sounds too, shall we say, cute.
>Partly because it used to mean happy and partly because there are so few
>good words that rhyme with it. (may, day, pay, sway, nea, say, cray, play,
>the only good one that I can think of is flay.) We need a term that will strike
>fear into the hearts of mice and men alike.
Pussy? ;-)
>How about these for inclusive terms.
>Sexually Challenged
Naaah: sounds too much like the problems we can have getting into gayspace
with people of the other gender, or straightspace with people of our own.
Too depressing.
>Sexually Diferent
>Romanticly Different
Foo. Everybody's different.
>Men/Women/people of differing sexual attraction
Gaaaaaaakkkkkk!!!
>(Tounge firmly between both cheeks of course.)
My, you've got a flexible neck, haven't you? ;-)
>Feh, there is nothing like a good mutually consensual and playfully violent
>rape fantasy to get the juices flowing of a morning.
<grin> Oh, there are plenty of things *like* it, but isn't alt.sex a
better place to discuss them? If only UKnet would let alt.sex.* though
into the UK... <sigh>
Kay
--
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry Poly, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry |B0 f- t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |
Steven Schwartz
>Six-Pack of answered questions for the curious.
>
I see no reason why Perish should be forbidding us anything...
we don't let anyone else, so why should we let him/her/it? ;-)
>So, how many of you prefer Queer over Bisexual?
>
At least one less than would if I did. I'm bisexual 1st,
queer second. Though interested in and perhaps experimenting
with other things often brought under the header of queer (SM, etc.)
queer is, to me, a political statement and alignment, while
bisexual is a (self-used) descriptive phrase. Bisexual has
the other advantage, both as a self-reference and a label for
the world, of being more specific.
>How many of you believe we should be included in
>Gay rights movement as "Bisexual"?
>
Hear, hear...We've got more than enough invisibility problems
as it is, without being subsumed under a generic title, especially
an inaccurate generic title.
Also, being included in the LG movement as explicitly "bisexual"
makes people less likely to be openly biphobic in such meetings...
a problem the UC GALA used to have to some degree.
Saying that we should be included, however, does not mean that I
think we should not also retain our separate identities...
As I see it, the "Gay Rights Movement" on the UChicago campus
is made up of GALA, UCBU, and Uppity...
>Does Gay or Queer cover who we are?
>
>
Gay: Only when I've had too much (or just the right amount, depending
on your viewpoint) of my favorite mind-altering stimuli...
Queer: Yes. We're here (all join in for the rest of the chorus, I
on't write it out...)
>Just curious....
>
Welcome to the Universal Society for the Curious...
"Will you look at that one? I don't know, he may not be
curious enough..."
>"He/She isn't Heterosexual/Homosexual, she/he just haven't had a REAL
> Man/Woman yet!"
> - The Straight/Homosexual Last Word Dept.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Definitely curious enough. Into the quote file with that one...
>Robert Kelly
>rke...@triton.unm.edu
--
Steven Schwartz se...@midway.uchicago.edu B5 f- w+ g- K+ m r- p!
UCBU President: No Power, No Authority, Lots of Scutwork.
"Never say never - especially in 'I'll never sleep with x'. You're bound
to if you do that, unless, of course, you say it with that in mind." - D.P.
Sara Hopkins
se...@ellis.uchicago.edu (Steven Schwartz) writes:
> At least one less than would if I did. I'm bisexual 1st,
>queer second. Though interested in and perhaps experimenting
>with other things often brought under the header of queer (SM, etc.)
>queer is, to me, a political statement and alignment, while
>bisexual is a (self-used) descriptive phrase. Bisexual has
>the other advantage, both as a self-reference and a label for
>the world, of being more specific.
For myself, I consider the term "bisexual" to be both a descriptive word
*and* a political statement. I will certainly align with the
lesbian/gay community as many of my interests are the same as theirs,
but I am not a lesbian, I am bisexual. That is a political statement.
I think bisexual people should be explicitly included in the LG
community as "Lesbian Gay and Bisexual" or somesuch.
Ciaran McHale
>I think bisexual people should be explicitly included in the LG
>community as "Lesbian Gay and Bisexual" or somesuch.
[Sorry if that is taken too much out of context, but I don't like
quoting unnecessary text.]
A few days ago somebody complained that when going into a bookstore,
there is only 1 or 2 bi books in the GL section. Somebody else followed
up saying that the reason that there is such a lack of books is that
bis have not written them. He's right: we should be writing the books
ourselves rather than bitching that other have not written them for us.
Yes, I would like to see the GL community extend its charter to
explicitly include bis. *However*, I think it is _our_ responsibility
to make it happen rather than bitch at the GL community for not
including us by default.
So, I now raise the questions:
o What books should we (the bi community) write for ourselves?
o What other things can we do to work towards being included in
the GL community?
Joe P Woodhouse
This reminded me of an idea that my SO and I have had for some time
now. Imagine a huge party, with 3 baskets of badges by the door.
The first sort says "Hey, I'm Gay". The second says "Hi, I'm Bi", and
the third says "Hello, I'm Hetero". The understanding is that no-one gets
in without wearing one.
Good for breaking the ice. (Probably initiate a few pick-ups, too 8-> ).
(Actually, I had another idea the other day. Have *another* series of
badges, indicating availability/desire. Sayings range from "Totally
unavailable" through "Probably not" and "I'm open to suggestions" to
"I'm looking" and "GOD YES!". Well, I thought it was good.)
Joe.
--
Dorothy Parker, when asked if a certain party was good, replied
"Good?!? Another drink and I would have been under the host!"
Tim Pierce
>Yes, I would like to see the GL community extend its charter to
>explicitly include bis. *However*, I think it is _our_ responsibility
>to make it happen rather than bitch at the GL community for not
>including us by default.
Mostly I agree with this, but with a bit of clarification.
I don't think it's our responsibility to make this inclusion happen
any more than it's our responsibility to educate gays, lesbians, or
straights about bisexuality, any more than it's the responsibility of
the "gay community" to educate straights about homosexuality. In all
of these situations, however, one fact holds forth: _if we don't do
it, no one else will._ That, to me, is where our responsibility begins
and ends.
If we want to see it happen, we will have to work for it. That does
not mean that we are somehow obligated to force other people to do the
right thing; merely a sad statement of fact about the way the world
currently works.
--
____ Tim Pierce / "I don't understand it and further I
\ / pie...@husc.harvard.edu / don't want to understand it."
\/ (aka twpi...@amherst.edu) / -- Jeff Patterson
Dave Berry
>--
>Dorothy Parker, when asked if a certain party was good, replied
> "Good?!? Another drink and I would have been under the host!"
I think that was said by Talullah Bankhead.
Who, BTW, was bisexual.
Dave.
--
Dave Berry, LFCS, Edinburgh Uni. db%dcs.ed...@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
Dave Berry
> It seems to me that when self-identified `queers' use the word
>`queer', they tend to use it in this inclusive way.
That varies a lot. A lot of people use "queer" to be synonymous with "gay".
The first I heard of Queer nation was that they were using the word in the
inclusive sense, but I've since heard of other branches of QN who use it
in the narrow sense.
> Similarly, `gay' has a public meaning and also a special meaning.
>However, in recent years, the public meaning has been almost completely
>replaced by the special meaning. `gay' no longer means `cheerful'; it
>means `homosexual'. That seems like a shame, but there it is.
The only reason that it doesn't mean "cheerful" anymore is that homophobes
are too scared to use the word that way in case people think they're queer.
Their loss. Plenty of other words have two meanings - is a male hen no
longer a cock? Is "cock" no longer used to mean "mate" in the North of
England?
In any case, are we particularly short of words that mean "cheerful?
I'm not trying to persuade you to use "gay"; I just wanted to comment
on some points that you brought up along the way.
Angel of Sickness
> now. Imagine a huge party, with 3 baskets of badges by the door.
> The first sort says "Hey, I'm Gay". The second says "Hi, I'm Bi", and
> the third says "Hello, I'm Hetero". The understanding is that no-one gets
> in without wearing one.
Blech. How about badges that say
``It is none of your business''
or
``I am a math student''
or
``Why are you so interested in my penis? You don't even know me.''
or
``Please don't label me''
or
``If my sexuality is the only thing that matters to you,
fuck off.''
Maybe I left my sense of humor on the bus, but I sure wouldn't want
to wear any of your badges.
> Good for breaking the ice.
Maybe so, but there's other ice I'd like to break first, before I
start discussing my preferred deployment of my private parts.
adolphson
>In article <1991Nov7.1...@latcs1.lat.oz.au> wood...@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Joe P Woodhouse) writes:
>>--
>>Dorothy Parker, when asked if a certain party was good, replied
>> "Good?!? Another drink and I would have been under the host!"
>
> I think that was said by Talullah Bankhead.
> Who, BTW, was bisexual.
It's ascribed to Dorothy Parker in the recent bio of her ("What Fresh
Hell Is This?"). She's also quoted saying about a voyage across
the Atlantic that it was so rough the only thing she could keep
on her stomach was the captain.
Arne
Tom Limoncelli
> This reminded me of an idea that my SO and I have had for some time
> now. Imagine a huge party, with 3 baskets of badges by the door.
>
> The first sort says "Hey, I'm Gay". The second says "Hi, I'm Bi", and
> the third says "Hello, I'm Hetero". The understanding is that no-one gets
> in without wearing one.
At the Boston Bi Fest we did something like that. People were putting
little sticker dots on their name-tags. Red for don't hit on me,
green for do hit on me, black for s/m, etc. etc. It was pretty funny.
A lot of people just put on all the stickers to confuse everyone.
Tom
--
Tom Limoncelli -- t...@plts.uucp (play) -- t...@warren.mentorg.com (work)
"The souls of men and women, impassioned all. Their voices climb and fall;
battle trumpets call. I fill the bath and climb inside." -N. Merchant
pfl...@ccvax.ucd.ie
>>[stuff omitted] We need a term that will strike
>>fear into the hearts of mice and men alike.
>
> Pussy? ;-)
Brilliant. Had me rolling on the floor laughing. Made my day, Kay!
///Peter
__________ Peter Flynn aka Silmaril (RELAY, irc, cBix etc)
\ /__ cbts...@iruccvax.ucc.ie and elsewhere in Cyberspace
\ / / "For spirits when they please / Can either sex assume, or
\/ / both; so soft / And uncompounded is their essence pure...
\/ [Milton, _Paradise Lost_, 423]
pfl...@ccvax.ucd.ie
> In article <1991Nov7.1...@latcs1.lat.oz.au> wood...@latcs2.lat.oz.au (Joe P Woodhouse) writes:
> Maybe I left my sense of humor on the bus, but I sure wouldn't want
> to wear any of your badges.
You sure did. C'mon, lighten up, M-J :-)
> Nihil tam absurde dici potest, quod non dicatur ab aliquo philosophorum.
Numquam se minus otiosum esse quam cum otiosus, nec minus solum quam cum
solus esset...and boy, won't you know it!
Michael A. Atkinson
> This reminded me of an idea that my SO and I have had for some time
>now. Imagine a huge party, with 3 baskets of badges by the door.
> The first sort says "Hey, I'm Gay". The second says "Hi, I'm Bi", and
>the third says "Hello, I'm Hetero". The understanding is that no-one gets
>in without wearing one.
I'd only accept this if there was a basket with buttons saying, "None of
your damned business!" :-) :-) :-)
It's not a bad idea, really, but I prefer not to declare my sexuality to
everyone. It truly is not anybody's business unless I tell them.
--
Michael A. Atkinson | "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for
asbe...@nwu.edu | you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
** Member, Libertarian ** + All opinions expressed herein are solely +
** Party Illinois ** + those of my friend, Buck the squirrel. +
Sara Hopkins
>> Nihil tam absurde dici potest, quod non dicatur ab aliquo philosophorum.
>
>Numquam se minus otiosum esse quam cum otiosus, nec minus solum quam cum
>solus esset...and boy, won't you know it!
Well, talk about in-jokes! Could posters kindly post in a language we
can all understand, like Basic or Fortran.
Paul Crowley
>Well, talk about in-jokes! Could posters kindly post in a language we
>can all understand, like Basic or Fortran.
Thankfully, not all of us can understand Fortran.
Joe P Woodhouse
>
>Blech. How about badges that say
Well, yes, you certainly could have badges saying those sorts of things,
and I can even imagine circumstances where they would be quite funny, but
I think it's rather missing the point.
I'm slightly amazed that anyone found anything to be offended by in
those badges. When I and my main SO thought of them, we had a great laugh
at the probable ensuing situations.
Given that anyone at a party of ours is probably there through direct
invitation, we can presumably gauge in advance whether or not people will
find them offensive.
Really, I find this situation much like someone posting about how they
had a pool party, and someone replies, offended that the guests got wet.
I would also like to think that if anyone *did*, for whatever reason,
have a problem with the badges (or indeed, anything else), it would be a
simple matter to discuss it at the time.
I don't know what button I pressed with these badges of mine. *I* thought
they were a slightly sly dig at the prurience of society, but mainly
nothing more than a bit of fun. I can't anticipate every situation - if
your circumstances are such that these badges *are* offensive : I'm sorry
for that.
On the other hand, why didn't you also protest when Ciaran started this
thread with *his* badges? Sure, they were *serious*, and addressed a very
different issue - but they were also making assertive statements about
sexuality, saying "sexuality *is* what's important to me". And wasn't that
what was wrong with mine?
(BTW - I hope no-one construes this as an attack on *Ciaran's* post.
Just in case.)
Like I say, I'll apologize for offending you, in as much as I don't
like *inadvertantly* offending anyone - but it still seems to me that it
was just fun. <shrug> Hope no-one else was bothered.
> Maybe I left my sense of humor on the bus, but I sure wouldn't want
>to wear any of your badges.
No problem. (In fact, I thought that they might save insensitive and
inappropriate advances. That's what I get for trying 8-> ).
>Mark-Jason Dominus m...@central.cis.upenn.edu
Joe.