soc.atheism Google Group

DOJ Disputes Atheist's Claim of Religious Intolerance in Military

themilitaryto...@pacbell.net (Otis Willie PIO The American War Library) — Sat, 19 Jul 2008 12:53:13 UT

DOJ Disputes Atheist's Claim of Religious Intolerance in Military
[link]
{EXCERPT} The Public Record, California - Fearing that higher ranking Army
officials would not come to his defense, Hall contacted the Military Religious
Freedom Foundation (MRFF), a watchdog group...

Re: No atheists allowed in foxholes

ca...@optonline.net (Christopher A. Lee) — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:25:57 UT

On Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:05:10 -0400, nos...@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek)
wrote:
I thought it was scary when the officer (Kiefer Sutherland) said that
in "A Few Good Men".

Re: NPR story

a...@spamcop.net (axlq) — Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:24:57 UT

In article <swJ8k.16051$E41.9...@text.new s.virginmedia.com>,
Ad hominem. Yawn.
Because I tend to ignore posts that start out fulminating and go on
from there. You're lucky I read as far as the second paragraph in your
reply. Apologies if I missed a point buried in your prior rant.
I agree that a religious advisor may not be the best support person

Re: No atheists allowed in foxholes

nos...@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek) — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:05:10 UT

In article <xXu7k.13879$E41.8...@text.new s.virginmedia.com>,
Well, your deity may be able to save you from death, but he can't save
you from the sergeant. So if the sergeant says to go in the foxhole,
that's what you do. Unit, Corps, God, Country in that order.

Re: NPR story

nos...@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek) — Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:05:07 UT

Poor choice of example, I'm afraid. Non-believers are being told
that non-believers have no place in the army--and since you can't
quit the army, that means you're supposed to become a believer
pretty damn quick if you know what's good for you.

Atheist soldier sues Pentagon

themilitaryto...@pacbell.net (Otis Willie PIO The American War Library) — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:19:56 UT

Atheist soldier sues Pentagon
[link]
{EXCERPT} United Press International - Hall contends there is a pattern of
discrimination against non-Christians in the military, saying, "I think it's
utterly and totally wrong....

Re: Pew Forum religion survey

gwmitchell...@pobox.com (Wayne Mitchell) — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:26:27 UT

Not necessarily "faulty", but the survey does depend upon
self-identification. It can be no surprise that, in any category, some
of those who accept the label don't know what the definition or
parameters are. Among the religious sects, also, there were many who
identified with a particular sect, yet rejected some of the essential

Re: NPR story

s...@hotmail.com (David V.) — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:07:32 UT

axlq wrote:
In my 10 years with the US Navy I found all the chaplains to be
respectful of my Atheism. One even made sure "Atheist" was on my
dog tags. He was the Jewish chaplain. Nice guy.

Re: NPR story

duck...@gfy.slf (Charles & Mambo Duckman) — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:06:27 UT

axlq wrote:
So what? The organization notoriously known for its spending on $600 hammers
wastes more taxpayer money on unnecessary bullshit and just because they
allegedly don't discriminate while they spend money on superstitious
bullshit, this somehow makes it OK?
Tried and proven? For doing what exactly? At best, chaplain "services" can

Re: NPR story

n...@arizona.bay (Mike) — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:43:05 UT

Responding to axlq:
Ok, now pull up the comments you snipped out, and explain the term "knee-
jerk reaction" and why you considered this accusation appropriate here.
(Curious how defensive you are about this, and how reactive you've been
so far.)

Your comment "and even the lack of belief" indicates you see those who do

Re: NPR story

a...@spamcop.net (axlq) — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 23:03:27 UT

In article <hF58k.14835$E41....@text.news .virginmedia.com>,
Neither is your knee-jerk reaction to anything smacking of religion.
For decades, the military has employed chaplains trained to deal
with, and respect, service men and women with all manner of
religious beliefs, including Wiccan, Pagan, Satanist, and even the

Re: Pew Forum religion survey

w_e_coyot...@hotmail.com (dali_70) — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:22:52 UT

I'd say it was probably a combination of poorly worded questions and
ignorance.

Re: Pew Forum religion survey

br...@gweep.ca (Brian Edmonds) — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:13:25 UT

Or just that people are stupid. I'd be unsurprised to find a number
of people self identifying as atheists because they're "mad at God"
for the state of their sad, little lives. I sometimes wonder if some
people wouldn't be happier in one of the pantheistic religions, such
as that of the Norse or Romans. At least there the gods were openly

Re: Pew Forum religion survey

j...@reallykillersystems.com (James Beck) — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:11:46 UT

In article <Xns9AC7C3449D68Ftoddnverklar. ..@216.196.97.142>,
NsOeSbPm...@arsienne.calm says...
It has to be an anomaly of the survey system/questions.
How could someone that rejects the idea of gods also believe in a
personal or universal spirit.
Are not the two mutually exclusive?
Maybe, just maybe, the question was worded in such a manner that

Pew Forum religion survey

nsoesbpm...@arsienne.calm (Todd N. Verklarung) — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 04:51:50 UT

Lots of reporting on this. See, for example:
[link]
The most interesting (for this ng) quote:
'Another finding almost defies explanation: 21 percent of
self-identified atheists said they believe in God or a universal spirit,
with 8 percent "absolutely certain" of it.'