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Subject: Re: What's an operating system?
From: Joel Li <josef.und.r...@gmail.com>
To: San Jose State University Linux Users Group <sjslug@googlegroups.com>
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The duplicate copies of my reply to Larry have been removed. There is
no longer any trace of it here, so I thought I'd mention it since my
comment about the "triple-post" is now very confusing without the
context.


On Sep 10, 1:57=A0pm, Joel Li <josef.und.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Holy cow! Sorry about the triple-post. I must have pushed the back
> button and refreshed the page too many times in my Gecko web browser.
> *SNARK* =A0;)
>
> On Sep 10, 1:44=A0pm, Joel Li <josef.und.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Thanks, Larry, for taking time out of your busy schedule to to share
> > your thoughts. I'll wait to hear the rest of your argument before I
> > attempt to counter with my own.
>
> > On Sep 10, 11:41=A0am, Larry Cafiero <larry.cafi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Actually, no, Joel -- I have a lot to say on the issue, but I'm facin=
g
> > > a very busy day.
>
> > > "Linux" is fairly accepted as shorthand for the operating system
> > > comprising of the Linux kernel, the GNU tools, X, etc., that make up
> > > the entire system. Folks who insist on calling it GNU/Linux -- I used
> > > to be one -- are somewhat myopic in their insistence
>
> > > I'll write more later, obviously, but I can't right now -- preparing
> > > for Felton LUG and working.
>
> > > Larry Cafiero
>
> > > On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Joel Li <josef.und.r...@gmail.com> =
wrote:
> > > > Did I kill the discussion before it even really began, or is everyb=
ody
> > > > busy with school work already? I hope it's not quiet in here becaus=
e
> > > > people are afraid to offend. It is not offensive to disagree with
> > > > someone.
>
> > > > To tell someone he is wrong and explain why he's wrong is a wonderf=
ul
> > > > form of respect. I can only hope that, if I'm wrong, someone will h=
elp
> > > > put me straight. If I feel strongly that I'm right, I'll keep
> > > > debating, but in the process, my opinions will have been influenced=
 by
> > > > those who debated with me.
>
> > > > Participating in the free marketplace of ideas is always better tha=
n
> > > > keeping quiet on the sidelines. Then again, maybe this topic just
> > > > wasn't provocative enough. Apologies if I've disappointed. I'll try=
 to
> > > > think of some more provocative things to say and I'll post at least
> > > > one new topic tonight!
>
> > > > On Sep 10, 1:53=A0am, Joel Li <josef.und.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> Hi, Grant.
>
> > > >> You've skirted my questions! =A0:)
>
> > > >> Okay, I've read the intro you wrote onhttp://www.dvlug.org/Overall=
,
> > > >> I think your introduction is just great. But I do disagree with yo=
u on
> > > >> a few things.
>
> > > >> Linux is not an operating system, it's a kernel. Even textbooks, l=
ike
> > > >> Operating System Concepts by Silberschatz, et. al., get this wrong=
. I
> > > >> refer you to two essays by the father of the GNU/Linux operating
> > > >> system, Richard Stallman:
> > > > "Linux and GNU" <https://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html> and
> > > > "Why GNU/Linux?" <https://www.gnu.org/gnu/why-gnu-linux.html>.
> > > >> I encourage everyone here to read these essays.
>
> > > >> Here's a key quote from "Linux and GNU":
> > > >> Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the
> > > >> machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel=
 is
> > > >> an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; i=
t
> > > >> can only function in the context of a complete operating system. L=
inux
> > > >> is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the
> > > >> whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux.
>
> > > >> There. The floodgates are open. I hope there's water in these foru=
ms!
> > > >> Let's debate!
>
> > > >> By the way, I used to hang out at Caff=E9 La Scala on Wednesdays a=
fter
> > > >> my weekly piano lesson with Janet Murray at Music One Studios in
> > > >> Walnut Creek. I used to lounge at the coffee shop to work on freel=
ance
> > > >> side-projects. Sometimes I'd proselytize software freedom to the
> > > >> people next to me, and I think you were mentioned by one of the pe=
ople
> > > >> I talked to once. It's nice to finally sorta meet you!
>
> > > >> On Sep 9, 11:51=A0pm, Grant Bowman <grant...@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > Greetings Joel,
>
> > > >> > I have written an introduction for newcomers to linux athttp://w=
ww.dvlug.organdwouldappreciateanyfeedback you have. I
> > > >> > like the image given on the wikipedia page for operating systems=
 and
> > > >> > use it on my page as well.
>
> > > >> > Cheers,
>
> > > >> > Grant Bowmanhttp://www.ubuntu-california.org
>
> > > >> > On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Joel Li <josef.und.r...@gmail.c=
om> wrote:
> > > >> > > In an effort to be provocative, and to get people talking, I w=
ill pose
> > > >> > > these questions:
>
> > > >> > > When you say /Linux/ are you referring to the kernel, or are y=
ou
> > > >> > > referring to the GNU operating system?
>
> > > >> > > What is an operating system?
>
> > > >> > > --
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