typography connection lost in html editor / ideas about CMS presentation
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Nicolaas Thiemen Francken - Sunny Side Up
Dec 2, 2009, 8:54:43 PM12/2/09
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Hi Everyone
I might be completely mistaken (please forgive me if I am), but here
is a concern I have:
The WYSIWYG editing function has been broken in the CMS for quiet some
time now. That is, in the old days, the styles applied to your
typography stylesheet would also apply to the HTML editor in the CMS.
Now, they dont. This is one of the main selling features of the SS
CMS in my opinion. It never worked perfectly, but it was a nice
customisation that made editing a whole lot easier.
The reason why I think I might be mistaken is that very few complaints
have been made about this. It appears few of us really care.
If it is indeed broken then I feel we (as in the Silverstripe
Community) should really try to pay more attention to usability, not
just fancy PHP. That is, ultimately we all rely on the quality of the
CMS for our success.
My question is then, how can we get more look and feel input.
Can we find some volunteers to get stuck into this? Presentation is
so important. A few hours of work would make such a difference (e.g.
ModelAdmin)
I guess this sort of work is always controversial. It is more art and
less craft than back-end work. What are your thoughts on this?
Cheers
Nicolaas
I might be completely mistaken (please forgive me if I am), but here
is a concern I have:
The WYSIWYG editing function has been broken in the CMS for quiet some
time now. That is, in the old days, the styles applied to your
typography stylesheet would also apply to the HTML editor in the CMS.
Now, they dont. This is one of the main selling features of the SS
CMS in my opinion. It never worked perfectly, but it was a nice
customisation that made editing a whole lot easier.
The reason why I think I might be mistaken is that very few complaints
have been made about this. It appears few of us really care.
If it is indeed broken then I feel we (as in the Silverstripe
Community) should really try to pay more attention to usability, not
just fancy PHP. That is, ultimately we all rely on the quality of the
CMS for our success.
My question is then, how can we get more look and feel input.
Can we find some volunteers to get stuck into this? Presentation is
so important. A few hours of work would make such a difference (e.g.
ModelAdmin)
I guess this sort of work is always controversial. It is more art and
less craft than back-end work. What are your thoughts on this?
Cheers
Nicolaas
Liam Whittle
Dec 2, 2009, 9:18:25 PM12/2/09
to silverst...@googlegroups.com
I've never used it like that because you can define the styles you
need in a editor.css file and those rules are applied to the wysiswyg.
This works better because most of the time I need to rewrite the css
specifically for the editor.
Something like this wouldn't work in the editor:
#mainWrap p { some style };
----------------------------
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On 2009-12-02, at 8:54 PM, Nicolaas Thiemen Francken - Sunny Side Up <nfra...@gmail.com
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need in a editor.css file and those rules are applied to the wysiswyg.
This works better because most of the time I need to rewrite the css
specifically for the editor.
Something like this wouldn't work in the editor:
#mainWrap p { some style };
----------------------------
Sent from my iPhone
On 2009-12-02, at 8:54 PM, Nicolaas Thiemen Francken - Sunny Side Up <nfra...@gmail.com
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> To post to this group, send email to silverstripe-
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Nicolaas Thiemen Francken - Sunny Side Up
Dec 2, 2009, 9:23:15 PM12/2/09
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Hi Liam
Are you able to connect to the editor.css file without hacking the
CMS? I believe this link is broken.
2009/12/3 Liam Whittle <lee...@gmail.com>:
> To post to this group, send email to silverst...@googlegroups.com.
Are you able to connect to the editor.css file without hacking the
CMS? I believe this link is broken.
2009/12/3 Liam Whittle <lee...@gmail.com>:
Sam Minnee
Dec 2, 2009, 9:37:23 PM12/2/09
to SilverStripe Development
Hi Nicolaas,
> The WYSIWYG editing function has been broken in the CMS for quiet some
> time now. That is, in the old days, the styles applied to your
> typography stylesheet would also apply to the HTML editor in the CMS.
> Now, they dont. This is one of the main selling features of the SS
> CMS in my opinion. It never worked perfectly, but it was a nice
> customisation that made editing a whole lot easier.
You can create a replacement editor.css file in either mysite/css/
editor.css or themes/(yourtheme)/css/editor.css.
A good strategy is to include typography.css within editor.css, and
then make any additional modifications that are necessary to get the
editor looking right.
> My question is then, how can we get more look and feel input?
This is quite a different issue from the specific bug that you raised
above. The best bet is probably to pick specific issues and resolve
them. Design by committee tends not to work very well, but if a bunch
of people each pick something that's broken and fix it, the CMS will
improve a great deal.
> The WYSIWYG editing function has been broken in the CMS for quiet some
> time now. That is, in the old days, the styles applied to your
> typography stylesheet would also apply to the HTML editor in the CMS.
> Now, they dont. This is one of the main selling features of the SS
> CMS in my opinion. It never worked perfectly, but it was a nice
> customisation that made editing a whole lot easier.
editor.css or themes/(yourtheme)/css/editor.css.
A good strategy is to include typography.css within editor.css, and
then make any additional modifications that are necessary to get the
editor looking right.
> My question is then, how can we get more look and feel input?
This is quite a different issue from the specific bug that you raised
above. The best bet is probably to pick specific issues and resolve
them. Design by committee tends not to work very well, but if a bunch
of people each pick something that's broken and fix it, the CMS will
improve a great deal.
Nicolaas Thiemen Francken - Sunny Side Up
Dec 2, 2009, 9:50:27 PM12/2/09
to silverst...@googlegroups.com
2009/12/3 Sam Minnee <sam.m...@gmail.com>:
http://open.silverstripe.org/ticket/4493.
>
> A good strategy is to include typography.css within editor.css, and
> then make any additional modifications that are necessary to get the
> editor looking right.
>
>> My question is then, how can we get more look and feel input?
>
> This is quite a different issue from the specific bug that you raised
> above. The best bet is probably to pick specific issues and resolve
> them. Design by committee tends not to work very well, but if a bunch
> of people each pick something that's broken and fix it, the CMS will
> improve a great deal.
I wanted to use the bug above as an example of how we tend to focus
more on back-end issues rather than presentation (few people have
raised this issues (or noticed it), core team is not including a fix
in 2.4).
Design by committee no good, agreed. But how can we get more
front-end focussed folk involved? I reckon it would make big
difference. I will see if I can work on some ideas for modeladmin.
Cheers
Nicolaas
> Hi Nicolaas,
>
>> The WYSIWYG editing function has been broken in the CMS for quiet some
>> time now. That is, in the old days, the styles applied to your
>> typography stylesheet would also apply to the HTML editor in the CMS.
>> Now, they dont. This is one of the main selling features of the SS
>> CMS in my opinion. It never worked perfectly, but it was a nice
>> customisation that made editing a whole lot easier.
>
> You can create a replacement editor.css file in either mysite/css/
> editor.css or themes/(yourtheme)/css/editor.css.
I believe this functionality is broked now for a few months:
>
>> The WYSIWYG editing function has been broken in the CMS for quiet some
>> time now. That is, in the old days, the styles applied to your
>> typography stylesheet would also apply to the HTML editor in the CMS.
>> Now, they dont. This is one of the main selling features of the SS
>> CMS in my opinion. It never worked perfectly, but it was a nice
>> customisation that made editing a whole lot easier.
>
> You can create a replacement editor.css file in either mysite/css/
> editor.css or themes/(yourtheme)/css/editor.css.
http://open.silverstripe.org/ticket/4493.
>
> A good strategy is to include typography.css within editor.css, and
> then make any additional modifications that are necessary to get the
> editor looking right.
>
>> My question is then, how can we get more look and feel input?
>
> This is quite a different issue from the specific bug that you raised
> above. The best bet is probably to pick specific issues and resolve
> them. Design by committee tends not to work very well, but if a bunch
> of people each pick something that's broken and fix it, the CMS will
> improve a great deal.
more on back-end issues rather than presentation (few people have
raised this issues (or noticed it), core team is not including a fix
in 2.4).
Design by committee no good, agreed. But how can we get more
front-end focussed folk involved? I reckon it would make big
difference. I will see if I can work on some ideas for modeladmin.
Cheers
Nicolaas
Sam Minnee
Dec 2, 2009, 10:55:28 PM12/2/09
to SilverStripe Development
> I believe this functionality is broked now for a few months:http://open.silverstripe.org/ticket/4493.
Fair point; it is fixed in the 2.4 branch now - r94349 and r94350.
dalesaurus
Dec 3, 2009, 1:09:56 PM12/3/09
to SilverStripe Development
There was a similar exchange on the forums a few days ago:
http://www.silverstripe.org/general-questions/show/274055
Its not so much that anything is broken (the 404 issue fixed with
r94349/r94350 aside) but the concepts of how the 'typography' classing
and editor.css usage aren't immediately clear. What files do what,
where they used, what order they are applied in, and how to start
cascading new styles over them are basic SS kung-fu. An experienced
developer can figure this out but designers I've worked have struggled
with the concepts.
That said, once it is all put together the SS approach is much cleaner
than say WP's admin_print_styles hook. Nicolaas, would you agree that
it is more of a documentation issue than a code issue? Often a little
training and explaining goes further towards solving problems than
throwing technology at it.
On Dec 2, 7:54 pm, Nicolaas Thiemen Francken - Sunny Side Up
http://www.silverstripe.org/general-questions/show/274055
Its not so much that anything is broken (the 404 issue fixed with
r94349/r94350 aside) but the concepts of how the 'typography' classing
and editor.css usage aren't immediately clear. What files do what,
where they used, what order they are applied in, and how to start
cascading new styles over them are basic SS kung-fu. An experienced
developer can figure this out but designers I've worked have struggled
with the concepts.
That said, once it is all put together the SS approach is much cleaner
than say WP's admin_print_styles hook. Nicolaas, would you agree that
it is more of a documentation issue than a code issue? Often a little
training and explaining goes further towards solving problems than
throwing technology at it.
On Dec 2, 7:54 pm, Nicolaas Thiemen Francken - Sunny Side Up
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