There's a new shogi server, real time for free

[twixter]

One way to access the server is to visit your iGoogle page. The server
is a gadget that you can add to your collection of gadgets. Click on
"add stuff" and search for game center.

http://www.google.com/ig

Another way is to visit the server site itself.

http://www.iggamecenter.com/

Free registration is required. This will not result in spam.

Here's an archived game between two experienced players. It will
probably be deleted eventually.

http://gc1.iggamecenter.com/gm.php?gid=95&sid=82257&place=0&lang=en

Click on the arrow for the first move and then the view game buttons
will become active.

Java script is required. Many abstracts are implemented there. Shogi
was added just a few days ago. I'm sure Arty Sandler, the
administrator, would be glad to hear your comments, questions, and
suggestions. If more experienced players show up, perhaps more people
around the world will become interested.

[Daniel Toebbens]

twixter schrieb:

> Another way is to visit the server site itself.
>
> http://www.iggamecenter.com/
>
> Free registration is required. This will not result in spam.
>

This IS interesting. I'll probably stay true to PlayOk, which has just
gotten interesting in the last year. But the visibility of the Google
game center is probably much higher. Though currently it still seems to
be pretty deserted.

I had a look at it: A plus - it shows the correct pictures for the
sideboard even on my workplace computer. PlayOk only shows squares,
probably because it is lacking support for Japanese. A minus - It does
not seem to be possible to klick through the game records of other players.

Daniel

[twixter]

> This IS interesting. I'll probably stay true to PlayOk, which has just
> gotten interesting in the last year. But the visibility of the Google
> game center is probably much higher. Though currently it still seems to
> be pretty deserted.

Yeah, PlayOk has a much better field of opponents, and their window is
resizable, and they have automated tournaments, and they use Java.
Game Center is Javascript. The ideograms did not require any Japanese
fonts, since the window does not resize. If the board appears small on
your computer, one workaround is to reduce your screen resolution.

> I had a look at it: A plus - it shows the correct pictures for the
> sideboard even on my workplace computer. PlayOk only shows squares,
> probably because it is lacking support for Japanese. A minus - It does
> not seem to be possible to klick through the game records of other players.

You can select a filter to look at shogi games only, but games older
than a few weeks get deleted.
If you are playing white, the board flips so that your pieces start at
the bottom, but your in hand display on the right remains next to your
name on the top. Easy to get used to. Time stamping is a bit beyond
the capabilities of Javascript, and you might lose a few seconds due
to Net lag on each move, but you can select an increment of N seconds
to be added to your time each time you move. The time controls
available are the same for all games. No byoyomi, sorry. A rating
system is in place. No handicaps yet.

[Eric De Las Casas]

I just discovered last night that Yahoo! Games in English has a
section to play Shogi, and it seems to be functional. I played a game
with a friend of mine and it worked fine. The only problem is that
Yahoo! doesn't link to it from the main Yahoo! Games page. You can
find it here:

http://games.yahoo.com/help/rules/shg&ss=1

I have written Yahoo! and asked why they haven't put Shogi on the
Yahoo! Games page, but so far they haven't written me back.

[Bernhard]

Hi,

I took a short look at it, but I can't find any advantage to the other
existing shogi-servers.

I'm dreaming from ONE (!!!) shogi-server with the same big features
Chess- and Go-Players have with there servers.
Instead there coming more and more Java/Javascript/... things with
less features.

Bye,

Bernhard

[Eric De Las Casas]

I agree that one shogi server on the same level as GoKGS or Chess.com
would be ideal. Everyone in the shogi community talks about it, but
nobody takes the steps to start it. I would be willing to help in any
way I can with a shogi server, though my knowledge of website building
and software programming is weak. Perhaps if someone took the first
steps in building one and began advertising it and asking for help,
others would contribute and we could make it a reality.

[Bernhard]

Hi,

Ohhh, yeeahhh, this remembering me something very similar ...

The story begins:

It was a long time ago ...
Every year there was a discussion about a new shogi-format. PSN is not
good.
Many people had spoken about it, gave tips and suggestions about the
new format, about features it should be able to do.
Also a lot of people are crying for good software, that there is not a
good shogi-viewer for the western world, which supports comments, game
tree, ...
Then finaly (after I figured out the most important thing for me: how
to implement a strong shogi-engine), I've started BCMShogi.
Very soon I've reached the point, where BCMShogi has features which
requires a new shogi-format.
But THEN, there was not anybody (hmm, maybe 1 or 2 for only one post)
who likes to work at the USF (universal shogi format).
Also I'm hearing words like "where is language xyz-support", "how
about a language xyz-speech-set", "how about graphics abc", ...
I (!!!) did not need ANYTHING of it and furthermore I (!!!) couldn't
do that, don't speaking the language xyz.
BCMShogi is written configureable as much as possible: graphics by
bitmapfiles, sounds by soundfiles, languages by languagefiles, ...
Why not people are shouting: "I will make language xyz", "I will make
a xyz-speech-set", "I will paint nice graphics...", ... ???

I've got only ONE (!!!) time assistance by a person.
Very, very, very much thanks to Marco Milone for his italiano
translation!!!

(But still by the way: why I say thanks??? I (!!!) don't need italian
translataion. It's for all this italian guys.)

The story ended.


I have done my guilty to the shogiworld with BCMShogi.
I've wasted a lot of time, even haven't had time to play, learn,
study, ... shogi (and other things).
I won't start a new projet, to be alone again.

--------------

Even still I have much knowledge about "server"-programming.
(For example, BCMShogi can also play at floodgate and the commands
could be extended ...)

At the moment I see TWO (!!!) possible ways of a server:

A) simple at a telnet-base

B) completely own for example by java.

The earlier (chess-) server all was in style A, while today all is
going to style B (like shogi).
I personaly like style A more and didn't know, while B is more used.
Probably the reason is, that in style B you needn't any installation:
only start the application in your browser.
On the other side, when having OWN program (EXEs), then this can be
much more flexible.
For example with SC24, you MUST use the java-client and so you MUST
use that graphics.
If there would be an open protocol, it would be possible to write a
client with much better graphics.
On the other side, variant A is much easier to use for cheating. The
only chance to detect cheaters is by move-analysis.

--------------

Still what I would do, if I would like to start this project ...

I would use style A (by the way, floodgate is using it, so it should
be fast possible to have test-programs).
Then I would search an open-source telnet-SERVER (I have only
experience with telnet-clients).
Make it compile and in my eyes, than the biggest (only) problem is
solved.
Still there would be a lot of work, but not realy problems.

Bernhard

[Daniel Toebbens]

On 6 Aug., 00:30, Eric De Las Casas <edel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I agree that one shogi server on the same level as GoKGS or Chess.com
>> would be ideal. Everyone in the shogi community talks about it, but
>> nobody takes the steps to start it.

I think that would be a terrible idea. Terribly bad. Sure, the extra
features would be nice. But any dedicated shogi server would lack the
most important feature - exposition to the rest of the online world.
The shogi community is still too small (and currently shrinking). We
should be happy to have this priceless advertising tool.

[Bernhard]

Hi,

> The shogi community is still  too small (and currently shrinking). We
> should be happy to have this priceless advertising tool.

the shogi community is NOT too small.
There are many thousands people on SC24. ;-)

THOOSE people should be convinced about new needed features and they
have to enter the new arche-shogi!

Bernhard

[Daniel Toebbens]

Bernhard schrieb:

>> the shogi community is NOT too small.
>> There are many thousands people on SC24. ;-)
>>
>> THOOSE people should be convinced about new needed features and they have to enter the new arche-shogi!
>>
>>

Ok, let me precise ist: The shogi community in the western world is
still too small. If the Japanese shogi players develop a really good
online server this is a good thing. But if all the active western
players then migrate to this server, too, they will vanish from the eyes
of the rest of the western world. Which would be a very bad thing.

Daniel

[Eric De Las Casas]

I don't entirely see how having a dedicated shogi server would make
the shogi community "vanish" from the rest of the internet. Rather,
it would create one crossroads where the whole shogi community - from
around the world - can come together and discuss and play shogi. If
the shogi community in the western world is shrinking, I blame the
current system. We have many small places to play shogi. But where
in these small places is there actually a community?

Many of the players on PlayOK don't know anything about shogi. They
read how the pieces move on Wikipedia and then immediately start
playing. After being beaten by the stronger players, many of them
give up and completely forget about shogi. It's a novelty to many
people on PlayOK. "Oh, Japanese chess sounds interesting, maybe I'll
try a few games" is what they must be thinking.

Let's take, for example, igo. There are lots of small java-based
places to play igo. PlayOK is one of them, and Yahoo! Games and
igGames both feature playable igo applets. However, there is a
dedicated server for igo. That's GoKGS. Many, many people go onto
GoKGS because it's a dedicated place for igo players to meet up, play,
and discuss igo. They have many lessons on how to play and many
people there will drop what they are doing to teach igo to beginners.
And in these small servers such as PlayOK, Yahoo!, and igGoogle, when
people are playing, someone occasionally comes in and says, "Hi, if
you like igo, why not join GoKGS?"

This is what a shogi server should be like. If the international
shogi community had ONE place on the internet where everyone could go
to learn and play the game, I am positive it would grow. The key part
would be ADVERTISING it. Once the server is made, if we went to these
small shogi servers and said "Hi, if you like shogi, why not join the
shogi site?" then our numbers would grow. People would see that there
are many other people who enjoy shogi, not just the 20 or so same
people who are always in PlayOK. It would be a place to learn
strategy and watch high ranking players' games. And the key part is
that everyone would be learning together.

You're right, the shogi community IS shrinking. But you have to ask
yourself why it's shrinking. Our current system is obviously
failing. If we don't change the current system, it will continue
shrinking. Why sit around and just watch it disappear?

[Aaron Quam]

I'm most interested in correspondence shogi with several days allowed between moves (i.e. you make a move, submit it, and wait for your opponent to go at their leisure). I don't play live chess/shogi over the internet. So far the only site I've found which can do this for shogi is gamerz.net. The interface is very low-budget and primitive, but it works. I've been spoiled by chess.com.

[Rod Jackson]

Have you tried playing "Japanese Chess" on brain king?
 

For me I am greatful for igGoogle the Shogi on there is the only place I can play Shogi realtime on the net. Because I access the internet through my local library I cannot play on SC24, PlayOK or YahooGames...

 

So if anyone is logged onto the net around 9-12 (Australian time, ie +10 from Greenwich), feel free to go to http://www.iggamecenter.com/  and challenge me to a game :) [I'm on most days]

 

RAZA 2009

 

"Jesus answered, 'No one is good - except God alone.' " Mark 10:18
God's standard of goodness is - "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5:48
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://shogiwar.webs.com/Shogi_War_Page/index.html - Shogi War Page
http://shogiwar.webs.com/Xian_Is_True/index.html - Christianity is True

---

From: Aaron Quam <aaron...@gmail.com>
To: sho...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, 7 August, 2009 8:45:32 AM
Subject: Re: There's a new shogi server, real time for free

---

Find local businesses and services in your area with Yahoo!7 Local. Get started.

[Aaron Quam]

Yeah, back when I found gamerz.net I had stumbled upon brainking.com too. I can't recall exactly what it was that I didn't care for. Maybe they didn't have kanji on the pieces. I'm very particular about the aesthetics of the game.

[Kirk Finkbeiner]

Brainking has kanji on the pieces...it is in the options....it is a nice place to play    -------Original Message-------

[Aaron Quam]

Well I'll head back over there and check it out! Thanks!

[Kirk Finkbeiner]

Send me a challenge I am tookArook on brainking

[J Andrew Lipscomb]

Le 16 Ab 69 à 18:45, Aaron Quam a écrit :

> I'm most interested in correspondence shogi with several days
> allowed between moves (i.e. you make a move, submit it, and wait for
> your opponent to go at their leisure). I don't play live chess/shogi
> over the internet. So far the only site I've found which can do this
> for shogi is gamerz.net. The interface is very low-budget and
> primitive, but it works. I've been spoiled by chess.com.

BrainKing and (just recently) GoldToken have turn-based shogi available.

[Aaron Quam]

Done!

I set the time per move at 5 days, but I rarely go more than a day without making a move. Life just gets in the way sometimes. :-)

[lkau...@comcast.net]

     I would just like to add one comment to this discussion of shogi servers. I normally play only on SC24 as it's the only one on which I can expect to find a suitable game without a long wait. I tried playing on "PlayOK" for a while, but once I won enough games for my rating to be realistic it became too difficult to find any opponent within a reasonable rating range.

     The solution is the same one that is used in Japanese (and some western) shogi clubs which don't have huge numbers of members. When no suitable even pairings are possible, rated handicap games are played. In the case of a server, this would mean assigning each handicap a rating equivalence (this could be simply copied from the FESA system) that is deducted from the rating gap before computing the rating changes. This should make it fairly easy to get a game without much waiting, and would encourage strong players like myself to play there rather than just on SC24.

 

     Larry Kaufman (Amateur 5 Dan)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric De Las Casas" <ede...@gmail.com>
To: "SHOGI-L" <sho...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 6:36:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: There's a new shogi server, real time for free

[Daniel Toebbens]

lkau...@comcast.net schrieb:

>
> The solution is the same one that is used in Japanese (and some
> western) shogi clubs which don't have huge numbers of members. When no
> suitable even pairings are possible, rated handicap games are played.
> In the case of a server, this would mean assigning each handicap a
> rating equivalence (this could be simply copied from the FESA system)
> that is deducted from the rating gap before computing the rating
> changes. This should make it fairly easy to get a game without much
> waiting, and would encourage strong players like myself to play there
> rather than just on SC24.
>
>

I agree, having a decent handicap system on one of the western servers
would be a very good thing. Personally I wish for an option that
automatically sets the handicap. From my experience western players are
sometimes reluctant to accept a handicap. Even when they are totally
outmatched. Having an option to offer a game , where the appropriate
handicap is forced by the system would be very helpful in such situations.

Daniel

[mschribr]

You’re the top western player. What’s your SC24 rating?
Mark

On Aug 7, 1:06 am, lkauf...@comcast.net wrote:
> I normally play only on SC24 as it's the only one on which I can expect to find a suitable game without a long wait.