Is 13 blocks too far?

[Joe Ahearn]

A few teaser photos below of what I believe to be an exciting potential space for The Silent Barn, which we're deep in lease/build-out logistics of right now. It's got a great kitchen space, legal bedrooms/apartment upstairs (we're seeing about building out extra rooms / studio space), large performance space, and a huge walk-out roof. It even has lots of egress and is zoned as a social club, for those (like us) focused on the legality side of things. Downsides are price (not impossible, but need to negotiate down), and distance. It's about 13 blocks from a subway, in the industrial Maspeth/Ridgewood/E WBurg zone. We've been brainstorming ideas like trying to implement a new bike-sharing program and/or trying access a clunker van to act as a shuttle, but this is a great opportunity to turn the questions out to you all while we're in the process. Does this seem too far if everything else fits?

[Nathan Cearley]

Can you give the address so we can map it and see?

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Joe Ahearn <joseph....@gmail.com> wrote:

A few teaser photos below of what I believe to be an exciting potential space for The Silent Barn, which we're deep in lease/build-out logistics of right now. It's got a great kitchen space, legal bedrooms/apartment upstairs (we're seeing about building out extra rooms / studio space), large performance space, and a huge walk-out roof. It even has lots of egress and is zoned as a social club, for those (like us) focused on the legality side of things. Downsides are price (not impossible, but need to negotiate down), and distance. It's about 13 blocks from a subway, in the industrial Maspeth/Ridgewood/E WBurg zone. We've been brainstorming ideas like trying to implement a new bike-sharing program and/or trying access a clunker van to act as a shuttle, but this is a great opportunity to turn the questions out to you all while we're in the process. Does this seem too far if everything else fits?

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[alabast...@gmail.com]

that bungalow kitchen/bar thing is too great to pass up

[Joe Ahearn]

If any of you would like to individually talk with me about the location I'm down, but there are hundreds of people on this list, so disclosing the address before we've closed a deal with the landlord seems very risky.

But hey! There's another thing up for discussion :)

I'm not sure if it's impossible to chime in with thoughts on distance without an exact address, though.

--
JOE AHEARN | ShowsShowsShows

// phone: (646) 481-6116

\\ The Clocktower Gallery / AIR

// Showpaper

\\ The Silent Barn

[Luke Saenz]

Joe,

I've definitely walked further than 13 blocks to get to a show before, so I'm not sure that would be a major deterrent if it was an event that I really wanted to go to.  13 blocks through the hood, on the other hand...

[Max Suski]

Hey Joe,

I used to live in Ridgewood. I'm curious about the mapping of it. Can you send me it?

On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 9:41:01 AM UTC-4, Joe Ahearn wrote:

If any of you would like to individually talk with me about the location I'm down, but there are hundreds of people on this list, so disclosing the address before we've closed a deal with the landlord seems very risky.

But hey! There's another thing up for discussion :)

I'm not sure if it's impossible to chime in with thoughts on distance without an exact address, though.

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Nathan Cearley <nathan...@gmail.com> wrote:

Can you give the address so we can map it and see?

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Joe Ahearn <joseph....@gmail.com> wrote:

A few teaser photos below of what I believe to be an exciting potential space for The Silent Barn, which we're deep in lease/build-out logistics of right now. It's got a great kitchen space, legal bedrooms/apartment upstairs (we're seeing about building out extra rooms / studio space), large performance space, and a huge walk-out roof. It even has lots of egress and is zoned as a social club, for those (like us) focused on the legality side of things. Downsides are price (not impossible, but need to negotiate down), and distance. It's about 13 blocks from a subway, in the industrial Maspeth/Ridgewood/E WBurg zone. We've been brainstorming ideas like trying to implement a new bike-sharing program and/or trying access a clunker van to act as a shuttle, but this is a great opportunity to turn the questions out to you all while we're in the process. Does this seem too far if everything else fits?

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[Leo Hardman-Hill]

Can we know the subway stop?

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[Chris Person]

I've been wondering about Maspeth for a while, but would the van system work? Economically, I mean.

On May 16, 2012 9:20 AM, "Joe Ahearn" <joseph....@gmail.com> wrote:

A few teaser photos below of what I believe to be an exciting potential space for The Silent Barn, which we're deep in lease/build-out logistics of right now. It's got a great kitchen space, legal bedrooms/apartment upstairs (we're seeing about building out extra rooms / studio space), large performance space, and a huge walk-out roof. It even has lots of egress and is zoned as a social club, for those (like us) focused on the legality side of things. Downsides are price (not impossible, but need to negotiate down), and distance. It's about 13 blocks from a subway, in the industrial Maspeth/Ridgewood/E WBurg zone. We've been brainstorming ideas like trying to implement a new bike-sharing program and/or trying access a clunker van to act as a shuttle, but this is a great opportunity to turn the questions out to you all while we're in the process. Does this seem too far if everything else fits?

--

[Ryan Walsh]

I'm coming from Crown Heights, so an extra 13 blocks is not a deterrent.

I would check what bus lines its on, too- could be that it's 13 blocks from the train but 2 blocks from one or more bus routes.

Ryan

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Max Suski <mks...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Joe Ahearn]

Good question, no idea!

[Kristen Barry]

It'd be 13 blocks through residential Ridgewood!

Right off a bus that goes through Williamsburg!

VERY AWESOME BIKE RIDE #getwheels

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Chris Person <amishex...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Bee K]

When it comes to length, are these "Ridgewood blocks?"

Ben

[Joe Ahearn]

They're definitely Ridgewood blocks. You mean are they long blocks?

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Bee K <b...@benkrieger.com> wrote:

When it comes to length, are these "Ridgewood blocks?"

Ben

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[Kevin Bruce]

Might be a deterrent in the winter or if it's raining or something,
but not really any more than it would be if it was closer to the
train. If it's a chill neighborhood I don't see a problem. Walking is
good for you.

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:57 AM, Joe Ahearn <joseph....@gmail.com> wrote:
> They're definitely Ridgewood blocks. You mean are they long blocks?
>
> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:55 AM, Bee K <b...@benkrieger.com> wrote:
>>
>> When it comes to length, are these "Ridgewood blocks?"
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>
>> --
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>> Thanks for offering to help, it makes this space better for all of us.
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>
>
>
>
> --
> JOE AHEARN | ShowsShowsShows
> // phone: (646) 481-6116
> \\ The Clocktower Gallery / AIR
> // Showpaper
> \\ The Silent Barn
>

> --
> You received this message because you seem down to help us keep this space
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[Megan Moncrief]

i'm envisioning a variety of conceptual car/bikepools from the train stop, and i like it

[MP Lockwood]

It's about 13 blocks from the subway to Death by Audio, which I walk all the time, so the distance is not a problem. But that's a very lit up, populated route. The neighborhood and the subway line are more important, and keep in mind the respondents here may be a very biased sample group. Lots of people, and particularly women unfortunately, will be concerned about walking through an unknown neighborhood that's dark & quiet.

But if that's the only issue, I would vote to go for it. I'm sure something could be done to help make a safe (and safe feeling) trip to the Barn.

[Max Suski]

So we are talking this area then? http://g.co/maps/byyw2  The Q57 from the M train is pretty frequent during the day, but becomes an hourly bus at night 1-2amish. The B57 goes all the way to Williamsburg under the JMZ Marcy Ave stop and its passes most of the stops on the L train too. The third bus (Q39) right next to it goes all the way to Long Island City from Ridgewood and would make it easier for people coming from Astoria.

On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 9:55:33 AM UTC-4, Kristen Barry wrote:

It'd be 13 blocks through residential Ridgewood!

Right off a bus that goes through Williamsburg!

VERY AWESOME BIKE RIDE #getwheels

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Chris Person <amishex...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've been wondering about Maspeth for a while, but would the van system work? Economically, I mean.

On May 16, 2012 9:20 AM, "Joe Ahearn" <joseph....@gmail.com> wrote:

A few teaser photos below of what I believe to be an exciting potential space for The Silent Barn, which we're deep in lease/build-out logistics of right now. It's got a great kitchen space, legal bedrooms/apartment upstairs (we're seeing about building out extra rooms / studio space), large performance space, and a huge walk-out roof. It even has lots of egress and is zoned as a social club, for those (like us) focused on the legality side of things. Downsides are price (not impossible, but need to negotiate down), and distance. It's about 13 blocks from a subway, in the industrial Maspeth/Ridgewood/E WBurg zone. We've been brainstorming ideas like trying to implement a new bike-sharing program and/or trying access a clunker van to act as a shuttle, but this is a great opportunity to turn the questions out to you all while we're in the process. Does this seem too far if everything else fits?

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[Max Suski]

That is a valid point. Same goes for 285 Kent Ave and Glasslands Gallery. If this is the spot where I think it is, then the neighborhood is very safe and quiet. I used to live next to the Ridgewood Police Precinct and it was rare for the police to go racing out anywhere. The M train is nice too, but if I am correct on the spot, then the buses should make it fairly easy to get to. Even by car because its like 5 blocks from the Long Island Expressway.

[646 DJ KUNAL]

the overall commute time from dba, or myrtle broadway, etc  is less than half an hour, sometimes 22 min, sometimes 24min, but it is mostly walking. the place is 13 blocks from the subway, or alternatively also right off of a bus stop!  it is NOT 13 blocks from a bus commute :)

Snet from my iPone

--

[Nathan Cearley]

there is quite a bit of looking on the bright side on this strand--I mean, its a cool space because it meets almost all the fundamental and complicated needs of SB.  

two questions:  is it licensed to sell beer and is it licensed to have shows...already.  What are the cidty rules of a "social club" and do you inherit them?

also, the only way to really find out if it is too far is to get 15 random folks to try and trek it out there on a weeknight and see how they felt about the experience and if they would do it again.  or a sunday night.  when it is pretty invconvenient.  the people on this strand are obviously pretty dedicated to the silent barn so they are all going to say "hell ya I will take a bus in the middle of the night into a neighborhood I am unfamiliar with and walk through it alone!"  but most other folks might feel differently.  

i would have to argue that proximity to a subway stop is equal in importance to every other need previously listed.  

so, experiment on a group of average show goers...people who used to go to maybe like 3-5 SB shows/events a month.  get feedback from them.

nkc

[Joe Ahearn]

We're radiating slowly outwards in our input - we've already discussed this at length amongst the chefs, and so now we're turning to this group. The next step is certainly a wider pool. 

Any ideas on how we get 15 random people to walk to the middle of nowhere for no reason other than a venue they're sort of interested in might be there in the future? If we can solve that, I think we have a laundry list of other experiments to try on them as well. 

Maybe we have someone standing on the street with a reward. 

[Hillary]

has anyone discussed the possibility of a shhhuttle

[Joe Ahearn]

Also, in regards to zoning and legality - I'm not suggesting the 13 block thing is the ONLY qualifier for this space. We have our professional advisers helping us research those issues, and the fact that preliminary research is all turning up positive is why I'm turning to this group for a purely audience question (as well as facebook). 

[Joe Ahearn]

Whoa. Such a good name.

[Katie McVeay]

the weather is nice, can people bike? maybe have a race, see who can find the best/most efficient way to the new location. winner receives free entry for a month or a 12 pack or anything really, or just have a nice dinner after for participants. i enjoy the adventure that is silent barn, walking a few extra blocks or taking a new bus makes shhhh extra special. 

Katie McVeay

Spokesperson

Music Without Labels & Beat-Play, LLC. 

San Diego, CA 92109

646-577-7300 

ka...@musicwithoutlabels.com

musicwithoutlabels.com

crookedsunshine.tumblr.com

[Nathan Cearley]

would the property owners lease it out for a weekend to conduct experiments...say, putting on a trial show/event and then measuring turnout and other variables (how did you get here/where you happy to get here/how are you getting back/would you do this again/etc?).  

nkc

[Joe Ahearn]

We could try and ask about that. It seems like a fun idea, but do you think the variables of which bands are booked and it being a single promoted event in potential new Silent Barn might too heavily effect the results to be helpful?

Another concern is that we had been planning to do some build-out and talk the Fire Department, etc, before doing any shows there. Doing a test show before having any time in the space to plan out staging, equipment, etc, might also outweigh the benefits. 

I love polls, though. We did one at the first public meeting: Location Door Poll

Maybe there's a way we could word a new poll in regards to travel and distance from subway?

[G Lucas]

A long time ago, I was involved in a space called "fort awesome" we had mostly noise, crust, and Indy-pop shows around 2000-2005. It had a red door and was on an industrial street with nothing on it.
It was on Morgan avenue, but the ass end, right near the bqe onram at meeker and driggs.
It was the graham ave stop but you had to walk maybe 15 blocks to get to it. WAY down graham WAY up Richardson, THEN left THEN RIGHT AGAIN then even farther up to Morgan.
Back then, I didn't think about logistics at all, I was just like " let's have a show! Um hello?" this was pre Todd p era Brooklyn house shows, and I had no idea what to expect. I'm from Brooklyn and didn't grow up going into random houses in random neiborhoods. It was defiantly something that was more prevalent in other states, suburb punk culture, etc.
Anyway, when we started out, it was very complicated to even explain how to get there from the graham L. Too many turns for even one sentence. We had flyers with maps and a long text description of the directions, but it was still faaaaar.
So then I actually went out one night with an arrow stencil and spray painted red arrows directly on the sidewalk in a line all the way from the subway to my front door.

People needed direction, and it was far, but people still came out. I think the air of adventurousness is still the rule. And if something is made worth trekking to and has many different ways to engage with over the course of a night, then the long trip is justified by good times

Um, did you see that pool table? Crazy.

On May 16, 2012, at 9:55, Bee K <b...@benkrieger.com> wrote:

> When it comes to length, are these "Ridgewood blocks?"
>
> Ben
>

[G Lucas]

Hmmm that's a bigger issue than just our needs. "A travel and distance survey of urban culture consumers"

[Leo Hardman-Hill]

While being nearby the train is nice, it's not the end of the world to have to walk 13 blocks. Besides there's something kind of cool sounding about forging the frost of winter for 13 blocks and finally seeing the beacon of light at the end of the end of the last block that is our new silent barn.. Delayed gratification! (I guess the question is, when it really is freezing and windy, will people be thinking about delayed gratification, or just how far the barn is from the train. Probably the later..). But still, we should take into account the space as well. It might be better to have a great space far from the train, than a not as great space that is close to the train

[Joe Salina]

I feel like these are all really good points in terms of supporting the idea that it could work.  People are willing to walk to places like 285, Glasslands, DBA etc. from the L or JMZ.

I do think, though, that it's worth noting that there still exists this stigma (somehow) that Ridgewood is "far away," so a space that is also a decent walk from the train might not help.  But if a show is "good," then people will come, no matter what, I think.  i.e., if someone is really into seeing a particular performance, are they really going to let a 10-15 minute walk deter them?  Maybe, but I'm not really of that mindset (though I don't know how many people on this list would be).

But, yeah, if the space meets all the needs of what's being looked for, then I think that's worth it over something that is around the corner from a subway stop.  If the Silent Barn can be fully realized there, then I think people will show up.

Joe Salina

(516) 376-2808

isfet

http://isfet.bandcamp.com/

http://soundcloud.com/isfet/

http://www.facebook.com/thisisisfet

babycastles

http://www.babycastles.com

[Leo Hardman-Hill]

Yeah word thats true and since Silent Barn is already an established
place (concept, idea, energy?), it would be less likely that someone
who didn't know beforehand about Barn would be deterred by the
distance cause they would either be going with people they know or
have read good things about it online or something (I.e., people would
less likely to travel a distance, if they know nothing about the place
they are going to, but i dont think Silent Barn will have that
problem)

On 5/16/12, Joe Salina <isf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I feel like these are all really good points in terms of supporting the
> idea that it could work. People are willing to walk to places like 285,
> Glasslands, DBA etc. from the L or JMZ.
>
> I do think, though, that it's worth noting that there still exists this
> stigma (somehow) that Ridgewood is "far away," so a space that is also a
> decent walk from the train might not help. But if a show is "good," then
> people will come, no matter what, I think. i.e., if someone is really into
> seeing a particular performance, are they really going to let a 10-15
> minute walk deter them? Maybe, but I'm not really of that mindset (though

> I don't know how many people on this list *would* be).

>>> Poll<https://sites.google.com/site/paestheticsllc/refrigerator/deeper-in-the-fridge/door-poll>

>>>>>>>>> <shhhbarn%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>>>>>>>>> shhhbarn+u...@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at
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>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/shhhbarn?hl=en?hl=en
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you seem down to help us keep this
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> JOE AHEARN | ShowsShowsShows
>>>>>>> // phone: (646) 481-6116

>>>>>>> \\ The Clocktower Gallery / AIR <http://www.artonair.org/>
>>>>>>> // Showpaper <http://www.showpaper.org/>
>>>>>>> \\ The Silent Barn <http://facebook.com/silentbarn>

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> You received this message because you seem down to help us keep this
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>>>>>>> all of
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> JOE AHEARN | ShowsShowsShows
>>>>> // phone: (646) 481-6116

>>>>> \\ The Clocktower Gallery / AIR <http://www.artonair.org/>
>>>>> // Showpaper <http://www.showpaper.org/>
>>>>> \\ The Silent Barn <http://facebook.com/silentbarn>

>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you seem down to help us keep this
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>>>> You received this message because you seem down to help us keep this
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> JOE AHEARN | ShowsShowsShows
>>> // phone: (646) 481-6116

>>> \\ The Clocktower Gallery / AIR <http://www.artonair.org/>
>>> // Showpaper <http://www.showpaper.org/>
>>> \\ The Silent Barn <http://facebook.com/silentbarn>

> *Joe Salina*
> *(516) 376-2808*
> *
> *
> *isfet*
> http://isfet.bandcamp.com/
> http://soundcloud.com/isfet/
> http://www.facebook.com/thisisisfet <http://www.myspace.com/thisisisfet>
>
> *babycastles*
> http://www.babycastles.com

[Reg Bloor]

If it's a show people really wanted to see, they'd absolutely go that far for it. 

But would people go that far to see something they're merely curious about or of they're bored and just want to hang out? Would they go that far just because they trust the curating tastes of the venue enough to show up to something they don't know?

I don't know if they would.

If you just want to be a concert venue for known acts that's fine, but I think you want to be more than that. 

---

From: Leo Hardman-Hill <sweat...@gmail.com>
To: shhh...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [shhhbarn] Is 13 blocks too far?

>>>>>>>>> <shhhbarn+unsub...@googlegroups.com>
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>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> JOE AHEARN | ShowsShowsShows
>>>>>>> // phone: (646) 481-6116
>>>>>>> \\ The Clocktower Gallery / AIR <http://www.artonair.org/>
>>>>>>> // Showpaper <http://www.showpaper.org/>
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>>>>> // phone: (646) 481-6116
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>>> --
>>> JOE AHEARN | ShowsShowsShows
>>> // phone: (646) 481-6116
>>> \\ The Clocktower Gallery / AIR <http://www.artonair.org/>
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>>> \\ The Silent Barn <http://facebook.com/silentbarn>
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>
>
>
> --
> *Joe Salina*
> *(516) 376-2808*
> *
> *
> *isfet*
> http://isfet.bandcamp.com/
> http://soundcloud.com/isfet/
> http://www.facebook.com/thisisisfet <http://www.myspace.com/thisisisfet>
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> http://www.babycastles.com
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[mgle...@gmail.com]

I don't think 13 blocks is a major deterrent.

Michael

---

From: Reg Bloor <paranoid...@yahoo.com>

Sender: shhh...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 11:47:22 -0700 (PDT)

To: shhh...@googlegroups.com<shhh...@googlegroups.com>

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[Hillary]

the first time i went to silent barn, i couldn't find it. then when i did and saw what it was inside it became this really beautiful thing to me, actually because of the fact that it was a fair distance from the venues i normally frequented.

An unassuming building plus an unconcerned location give you legitimacy as a community driven space. if you were building out a store front in williamsburg proper that would send a different message wouldn't it?

people flock to cultural centers. doesn't matter if it is a physical space or attitude. but it's better if it's a physical space, right?

[Reg Bloor]

Of course a barrier to entry might not necessarily be a bad thing.

---

From: "mgle...@gmail.com" <mgle...@gmail.com>
To: shhh...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 2:51 PM

[646 DJ KUNAL]

From the perspective of watching the difference in the people that show up in various venues for the same bill, I really am afraid of this walk commute.  It's funny. I had no problems with Broadway Junction because I was looking for places beside the subway.  

The difference in amount of people that show up @ 285 / DBA / Monster Island for the same bill is about 3x.  That's astronomical. That's what real estate is worth.  For example, compared to Silent Barn, Monster Island is ok, there's nothing particularly great about 285 Kent as a square plot - but the location was worth 3x the audience.  That can mean a lot to some people.

I'm thinking from a performer's perspective.

 If we're thinking about big shows we're looking at it the wrong way - That was always a bit of a trade-off for artists at the barn - much smaller venue, much more incredible night, people were already making that bargain.  Twin Sister, PicturePlane, Future Islands, Wolf Eyes, etc.   It might be a little harder to make that exchange and have bigger artists psyched on a show at an even smaller audience place, but at least that's a level of gradation of choice for them.  I personally think we can make a Silent Barn that would make that exchange worthwhile for everyone, even so far away, even if only 75 people show up to 200 person bookings.

But think about smaller shows.  That's what I'm worried about and would like some perspective on.  I don't know the answer.  Silent Barn was full of 10-15 audience shows most weekdays, booked by Slusher, Nat Roe, other experimental musicians, or sometimes just new curators.  That was our day to day existence and basically our strength.  Is THAT audience going to diminish by a factor of  3 as well ?  If that's true, that means at our strongest moments of interesting curation and emerging artist incubation, only 3 people will show up.  Sometimes 2.  Like LEMP art space in St. Louis, which is fine there.  but in NY, I don't think that's worthwhile for new artists, won't serve their purpose, and a community will form for experimental musicians somewhere else, slightly more accessible.  We can't take this place if that's the case, we'd be serving no purpose, only capable of throwing medium-large shows .

I can't predict the city, but I'd love as much feedback on small show attendance as possible. For the Silent Barn to be the Silent Barn, our small shows still need to feel like a community connected to the rest of the city.  Otherwise we're a different, hideaway, project.  

What do you think? I think we basically need to have confidence that a decent handful of people would come to our smaller shows to make the barn a worthwhile venue to everybody.

Kunal

[Joe Salina]

I'd also thought about the idea of what it would mean for smaller shows.  It's true; there were plenty of nights where the audience at SB was about 15-20 people (I played some of those! and I went to a lot of them, too!).  I feel like there's a pretty good chance that at least that many people would come out, if the vibe were as positive as it had been at the barn.

For example, I've been going out to the new Secret Project Robot quite a bit.  It's about a 15-20 minute walk from my apartment, but it's too close for me to justify using a subway for.  That distance hasn't deterred me from going out to shows I know nothing about.

Perhaps I'm not thinking of it correctly though, in that it would be a train commute + the walking distance.  But...somehow I feel like that's what kept people away from smaller shows, to begin with.  Somehow I doubt that that number is going to change very much, if at all.

It's just a strange intuition that the kind of people who would go to some weird ambient/noise show on a Tuesday night would do so whether it took them 20 minutes to get to or 35.

Joe Salina

(516) 376-2808

isfet

http://isfet.bandcamp.com/

http://soundcloud.com/isfet/

http://www.facebook.com/thisisisfet

babycastles

http://www.babycastles.com

[646 DJ KUNAL]

Why am I the nay-sayer here.  It's just because of 285 Kent.  I just learned a shitload about location, and human habits, there.  It was also awesome to see Weasel Walter beaming so happily because so many people came to his shows at Monster Island (hi if you're here!).

Man I really love this particular location, though.  The locations is awesome.  It's got the worst strip club I've ever been to, and all this homey stuff, and twisty hills - it was my favorite part of ridgewood.  It's next to Gottscheer Hall.  The walk is really, really, enjoyable for those who know it (and safe).  I just want a little confidence that we can make it a place that people actually love to go to.  Love the walk in the winter, even. 

[646 DJ KUNAL]

It's just a strange intuition that the kind of people who would go to some weird ambient/noise show on a Tuesday night would do so whether it took them 20 minutes to get to or 35.

Say more of these kinds of these things!!! then I can vote for the place.

[Alison Sirico]

I think if we make the silent barn a cultural hub, where multiple mediums meet and really excite people about this great concentrated space of creatvity, they will come. The space itself will be worth the trip.. the interesting audience will be worth the trip.. the bands will be worth the trip.. oscar is always worth the trip.

 

What we do in the day will also affect traffic.. ie. maybe the building of studios 

[G Lucas]

people are gonna want to come from far away to sit out in our AMAZING ROOF GARDEN PATIO

or delight in our FULL IMMERSION SENSORY DEPRIVATION/DEEP LISTENING NON-AMORAL SURVEILLANCE POD

and the like.....

www.nonhorse.com

[Ilya Z]

can you guide people there by emitting some inaudible sound waves that people can tune their phones to

[chthonic]

i second the concern about not just the distance, but the safety of the area walked
through, particularly at night.

the space itself looks great.




________________________________________________________________
Sent via the WebMail system at chthonicstreams.com

[Keiko Uenishi]

This thread is going too fast to catch up;)
I already live in the '1-blk-away from Ridgewood' near Halsey-L. So, it's not much of an adventure for me... (& I've never got scared by dark streets in the middle of the night with being alert while walking) but in general, 13 blks away from station would be a challenge to folks who are spoiled living in Manhattan or closer range to Manhattan. But SB has a good record of stretching people's routines to head to Ridgewood in the past. So, why not stretching even farther??;)
I won't worry much about the warm seasons but the real challenge would come during the miserably cold & nasty snowy season. 13 blks walk (no option for bike for those nights) would be brutal...
Keiko

P.S. Btw. have I read someone said it's 13 blks away from a subway station to which Death by Audio is close?! That's Marcy Ave/J train. I can't believe any part of Ridgewood is walkable from there. (unless DBA has been moved?!?) or have I mis-read it??

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[Michael Anthony Sanchez]

The subway isn't my main method of transportation, but I still feel that its vital for the location to be closer to the subway. 

The husk was right on top of the L and some nights struggled to draw a crowd. 

I don't believe people are going to trek to this location. Compound that with the fact that this property would be stretching the budget and this ceases to look like a spot for SB to thrive.

[Nathan Cearley]

there are lots of great ideas--practical and not, fun and responsible--so far; however, opinions are just that--get SCIENTIFIC.  EMPIRICAL. 

Joe, you are correct to ask--how to lure some pro non die hard SB folks out for the trek there in order to get there opinions on the distance and safety? 

Kunal--didn't you say its rather close to the beer hall?  maybe Silent Barn could organize a FIELD EXPEDITION to the new site and with the lure of either the next Public Meeting or FREE BEERS and GERMAN FOOD as the prize?  its a business expense...its research. 

I have had bad luck and had shows on the same night as exactly your last two Public Meetings, but I would be down for an expedition that left, say, from the L or the JMZ in either Williamsburg or the Lower East Side or East Village and then out to the new site.  Start it with a bang and a couple of rounds.  Next, hit the train to the spot.  Presto, take a walk.  Presto, you are there.  Go to the Beer Hall for free rounds, food and surveys and debriefings...or, the next Public Meeting with a PUBLIC DEBRIEFING.

nkc

--

[MP Lockwood]

I said DBA was about 13 blocks from the subway. I did some quick mental math of the walk from the Bedford L, which is at N.7th, DBA is on S.2nd, a few blocks off Bedford. My mental walk from the Marcy JMZ gives me a similar count.

But I agree with chthonic. Safety is the primary concern, and will be people's primary concern, as it should be. In particular, many times I have heard women mention that they wouldn't go to this or that place alone because of the lengthy walk through an unknown neighborhood. It doesn't matter if the walk is residential or if it seems sketchy to me. (and for what it's worth, to the large majority of people the Halsey stop does feel like a sketchy area) If it's dark and unpopulated late at night then it's less safe. This may not influence the people on this list as much, but it's the primary issue for most people when deciding whether to go "out there" to a show.

The walk to DBA is now well lit with many 24-hour places and lots of traffic late at night. A more accurate comparison might be Free103 back in the days when they had that space.

If the bus stops right next to it, then that helps a lot.

I think the 10-15 people who came to those smaller shows will go no matter what. I don't think it's really even the music fans who want to see a particular band who make up the two-thirds of the crowd at those big 285 Kent shows. Those are the casual people who just want to go to a so-cool Brooklyn Todd P scene show. It doesn't sound like the Silent Barn's mission is to court that audience, though you may have some name recognition now and some of that draw.

[G Lucas]

Interesting

On May 16, 2012 4:58 PM, "Nathan Cearley" <nathan...@gmail.com> wrote:

there are lots of great ideas--practical and not, fun and responsible--so far; however, opinions are just that--get SCIENTIFIC.  EMPIRICAL. 

Joe, you are correct to ask--how to lure some pro non die hard SB folks out for the trek there in order to get there opinions on the distance and safety? 

Kunal--didn't you say its rather close to the beer hall?  maybe Silent Barn could organize a FIELD EXPEDITION to the new site and with the lure of either the next Public Meeting or FREE BEERS and GERMAN FOOD as the prize?  its a business expense...its research. 

I have had bad luck and had shows on the same night as exactly your last two Public Meetings, but I would be down for an expedition that left, say, from the L or the JMZ in either Williamsburg or the Lower East Side or East Village and then out to the new site.  Start it with a bang and a couple of rounds.  Next, hit the train to the spot.  Presto, take a walk.  Presto, you are there.  Go to the Beer Hall for free rounds, food and surveys and debriefings...or, the next Public Meeting with a PUBLIC DEBRIEFING.

nkc

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Michael Anthony Sanchez <winds...@gmail.com> wrote: > > The s...

[646 DJ KUNAL]

That's encouraging! You're kind of the voices I'm looking, people that come out to smaller shows - would you rather we keep looking, or you would you be psyched on this space?   It's funny - the commute isn't far from anywhere, so it's a completely practical location in commute time - except that the commute is walking :) People can learn to walk.

I think our bigger shows being canned a little more isn't really a big deal to big performers, I really don't, it's more about the viability at all for a great underground music culture. 

We can do our huge huge shows at Gottscheer Hall... 

[G Lucas]

as a New Yorker, i feel good about the bus.

www.nonhorse.com

[Healani Combier-Kapel]

Google says:

its exactly a 15 minute googlewalk from M - Freshpond Rd, M - MiddleVillage
                              14 minute googlewalk from M - Forest Av
                              23 minute googlewalk from Dekalb L or 7 minute bikeride

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:05 PM, 646 DJ KUNAL <djk...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
Lani

[Alex Weiner]

If its less than 4 bus stops from a major bus depot it shouldn't be much of a problem. 

[Keiko Uenishi]

Healani, thank you for this.
MP, o... okay. I got it confused. DBA is near Marcy-J or longer walk from Bedford-L.
It may be the same count of blks. But the issue some people tend to raise is not the distance, but 'nothing else' fun during the walk. The south willyburg area nowadays (even in the back in the days) always have had bunch of bars, eateries, etc. to drop in after/before the event. If wanted, people can hop between gigs. SB's proposed location may ask people to commit the entire night to the event there. Long walk in the safe residential area may be easy but maybe 'boring'?!(Well, 'beer hall' was mentioned. So, maybe linking it as an additional fun destination, and possibility of collaborating with the hall, it might become interesting destination?! Well, I hate to say... but new SB can bring a new pre-cursor for real estates to call Ridgewood a 'new Greenpoint'?!;)

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Healani Combier-Kapel <hcom...@hunter.cuny.edu> wrote:

[Julian Fader]

Far is good!

[Max Suski]

It sound like a really rad space.

> > On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Keiko Uenishi <obla...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> This thread is going too fast to catch up;)
> >> I already live in the '1-blk-away from Ridgewood' near Halsey-L. So, it's
> >> not much of an adventure for me... (& I've never got scared by dark streets
> >> in the middle of the night with being alert while walking) but in general,
> >> 13 blks away from station would be a challenge to folks who are spoiled
> >> living in Manhattan or closer range to Manhattan. But SB has a good record
> >> of stretching people's routines to head to Ridgewood in the past. So, why
> >> not stretching even farther??;)
> >> I won't worry much about the warm seasons but the real challenge would
> >> come during the miserably cold & nasty snowy season. 13 blks walk (no
> >> option for bike for those nights) would be brutal...
> >> Keiko
>
> >> P.S. Btw. have I read someone said it's 13 blks away from a subway
> >> station to which Death by Audio is close?! That's Marcy Ave/J train. I
> >> can't believe any part of Ridgewood is walkable from there. (unless DBA has
> >> been moved?!?) or have I mis-read it??
>

[chthonic]

i agree with this concern. for the same reason i've never gone to some venues, or considered playing them (performers are another group to consider besides the audience). the idea of lugging gear a long way through a questionable nabe after a ride on a difficult train line going through sketchy stations is daunting. not to mention wondering if you can get your friends and fans to go to such a location, especially if (as reg insinuates below) it's not necessarily a "big draw" bill.

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Reg Bloor <paranoid...@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: shhh...@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 11:47:22 -0700 (PDT)

>If it's a show people really wanted to see, they'd absolutely go that far for it.
>But would people go that far to see something they're merely curious about or of they're bored and just want to hang out? Would they go that far just because they trust the curating tastes of the venue enough to show up to something they don't know?
>I don't know if they would.
>If you just want to be a concert venue for known acts that's fine, but I think you want to be more than that.

[chthonic]

>It's just a strange intuition that the kind of people who would go to some
>weird ambient/noise show on a Tuesday night would do so whether it took
>them 20 minutes to get to or 35.

listening to unconventional music isn't a guarantee of a certain type of person, always willing and able to go through hell and high water to get to an interesting show. consider the audience as more mental pioneers than physical.

also consider that as much as some of us might love to go on weeknights, an extra distance (as well as late night transportation slowdown) is off-putting due to having to be up for work the next day.

[646 DJ KUNAL]

Strong point about lugging equipment.

Again the total (google maps) commute time from places I measured was between 22-24 minutes, so standard, even very low.  The barn was probably 16 -20 minutes.   Not a huge difference in time planning.

It's just that the difference is entirely walking... I was just curious about the psychological impact of that.

Bands an equipment is something to consider!! Thank you.  We're always weighing a LOT of spaces, and these days more than ever.  But this particular space was the most magical space so far, and that might guide us to keep considering it as well as solutions to all of these thoughts.  

Kunal

[Nat Roe]

We're clearly buying a junker van to be the Silent Shhhhhuttle.

And covering it with fur like in Dumb and Dumber.

--
Nat Roe
347-379-5821
nathan...@gmail.com

[Kristen Barry]

*like*

[G Lucas]

Veggie pickup. It's in the barn exam somewhere!

[Krissy Rubbles]

Oh man that rooftop! Oh man that kitchen! Fancy virgin walls waiting for some life. And pool? If y'all can knock down the price, this place will be a fantasy land. I think the walk, drive, bike ride, bus ride or whatever y'all got going on will definitely be worth the trek to fantasy land and a furry shuttle might be super helpful in the winter or maybe hot cocoa at the door for all the frost bitten show goers. And if the walk is really intimidating for some or maybe some show goers just aren't physically able-bodied to make the journey, the bus seems like a completely viable alternative, even being hourly. 

As for carrying gear, what makes the walk any more inconvenient than the same length journey to DBA/285kent?

I'm not a musician so I really have no idea.

But seriously, THAT ROOFTOP YALL. You can put a ferris wheel on it

            /??/) 
           /?  / 
          /   / 
    /??/'   '/????? 
   /'/    /   /   /??/?\ 
  ( (   ?        ?&;/' ') 
  ' \               '  /   

   \'\             _.?? 
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[646 DJ KUNAL]

I had an installation opening party down the street where I live

and I've got to be the closest person that lives anywhere near it.

I'm the lucky person here. but the complex is so massive.

So it takes about 11 - 12 google map minutes to get to the venue.

Relatively, the only way I consider this distance is that I sure am really close to the venue, and that's what it feels like.

Same walk commute.  I don't imagine lugging equipment this distance to be a problem, honestly, physically.

I wouldn't feel bad about it.

It just isn't an issue.

It's just in NY, it's a huge difference psychologically for a community.

We'd have to somehow break that psychosis

I don't doubt that we could do that if we took the place. 

There are ok ideas already in this thread.

Kunal

[646 DJ KUNAL]

(perspective from denmark)

[mald...@aol.com]

    The length of the walk is nothing compared to the prospect of walking back at 1:30 AM on a weeknight through a sketchy neighborhood to a desolate subway station.  That is not appealing at all.  New York City has gotten a lot safer in the past decade or so, but with the plummeting economy crime is going to go (way) up.

-----Original Message-----
From: 646 DJ KUNAL <djk...@gmail.com>
To: shhhbarn <shhh...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, May 19, 2012 5:16 am
Subject: Re: [shhhbarn] Is 13 blocks too far?

[Brandon Zwagerman]

On the plus side, the walk is through a generally safe, middle class
neighborhood (not that things don't happen everywhere).

[katrina b]

I dunno, none of the M subway stations in Ridgwood are particularly sketchy, and the neighborhood (north of Metropolitan ~Maspeth-ish, right?) isn't so much sketchy as much as quiet... but I know that "quiet" can pose its own type of unease. If I'm reading-between-the-lines re: location correctly, the area is mostly industrial buildings, which is awesome for loud shows and weird events, and the nearest residential areas are kept "safe" by the Italians and Albanians, and the only trouble they start is NOT petty street crime. 

(Nerd alert: I receive the crime reports for the 2 miles around Ridgewood, and all the bad shit seems to go down closer to Flushing and the PJ's and what I call Williamsburg's "satellite campus" i.e. Morgan Ave. There are few *reported* issues in northernmost Ridgewood/Maspeth unless you're an asshole looking to dump your garbage illegally or you're in the mob. None of you are, right?)

I've often wondered why the Maspeth area never had artists move in since it has the same types of spaces that attracted people to Wburg/Bushwick/Ridgewood, and I guess it's all about the train access. But still! All that space! It will eventually happen. And it's always good to get your rent locked down before Gothamist and the NYTimes blows up your hood.

I have some friends who five years ago operated a performance space in Ridgewood but then lost their lease and two of them (1 dude, 1 lady) moved to the area north of Metropolitan and one of those weird Queens-numbered streets/aves that I always get confused. They've been there for years now. If someone wants to clue me in with a more precise location of the building in question, I could ask them how they feel about that area at night and in general. I'd especially be interested in getting a lady's opinion...

Has anyone considered the (potential) parallels between this space and that party spot out in the booneys on Lombardy? It's creepy to get there without a bike or taxi or doing the long walk with a group of friends, yet they still got great turnout for every event I ever went to there. If it is awesome, and if there is a ROOFTOP, people will come... Especially if your people are bike people. Everyone on bikes!!

Also, not to be a contrarian, but the assumption that bad economy = increased crime is popular and seems like common sense, but the stats generally don't support the theory: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/us/24crime.html

Not even gonna dip into the NYPD's infamous stat-jockeying though. Just saying that this fear is probably overblown, especially in an area that historically has had a low crime rate.

Sorry if any of this has been said already; I'm pretty sure I missed a few things in the neverending email chain...

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 2:07 PM, <mald...@aol.com> wrote:

[Aviv]

For bands that have a van, I'm sure it'll be fine. For bands/musicians who walk to shows lugging their gear by hand, both the neighborhood and the distance would be a deterent. If the shuttle thing goes on cool, as long as it lasts... You guys might want to make sure your back line includes a guitar amp, as people might be hesitant to walk 13 blocks with one.

My situation is a bit extreme, but when I play I usually have a guitar in one hand, an amp (if there's no backline) in another and a pedalboard in a bag across my shoulder. Without meaning to sound lame, walking 13 blocks through a quiet industrial neighborhood in a not great part of town seems a bit precarious with all that gear.

On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 9:20:53 AM UTC-4, Joe Ahearn wrote:

A few teaser photos below of what I believe to be an exciting potential space for The Silent Barn, which we're deep in lease/build-out logistics of right now. It's got a great kitchen space, legal bedrooms/apartment upstairs (we're seeing about building out extra rooms / studio space), large performance space, and a huge walk-out roof. It even has lots of egress and is zoned as a social club, for those (like us) focused on the legality side of things. Downsides are price (not impossible, but need to negotiate down), and distance. It's about 13 blocks from a subway, in the industrial Maspeth/Ridgewood/E WBurg zone. We've been brainstorming ideas like trying to implement a new bike-sharing program and/or trying access a clunker van to act as a shuttle, but this is a great opportunity to turn the questions out to you all while we're in the process. Does this seem too far if everything else fits?

On Wednesday, May 16, 2012 9:20:53 AM UTC-4, Joe Ahearn wrote:

A few teaser photos below of what I believe to be an exciting potential space for The Silent Barn, which we're deep in lease/build-out logistics of right now. It's got a great kitchen space, legal bedrooms/apartment upstairs (we're seeing about building out extra rooms / studio space), large performance space, and a huge walk-out roof. It even has lots of egress and is zoned as a social club, for those (like us) focused on the legality side of things. Downsides are price (not impossible, but need to negotiate down), and distance. It's about 13 blocks from a subway, in the industrial Maspeth/Ridgewood/E WBurg zone. We've been brainstorming ideas like trying to implement a new bike-sharing program and/or trying access a clunker van to act as a shuttle, but this is a great opportunity to turn the questions out to you all while we're in the process. Does this seem too far if everything else fits?

[Brandon Zwagerman]

For whatever it is worth, the walk is still the same distance to the train but it is through a quiet, middle-class, residential neighborhood, rather than an industrial or "sketchy" area, however much that makes a difference (probably minimal if carrying an amp!).

 

(and also next to a bus stop going straight to Williamsburg)

 

I am glad this thread is still happening. Thinking about location and what it all means and what are positives and negatives and dealbreakers is interesting.

--

[John Bujalski]

The idea of a shuttle is VERY appealing to me in this situation - not only for safety/exhaustion/whatever reasons that have been mentioned, but also because it could be a very social, fun experience on the way to and from the venue.

 - John

[mald...@aol.com]

    Not to be a contra-contrarian, but the article you cited did feature this:

"The news was not as positive in New York City, however. After leading a long decline in crime rates, the city saw increases in all four types of violent lawbreaking — murder, rape, robbery and aggravated assault — including a nearly 14 percent rise in murders. But data from the past few months suggest the city’s upward trend may have slowed or stopped."

[Reg Bloor]

Yeah, but:

“...but the 2010 spike has to be viewed in the context of the historic low the year before,” said Paul J. Browne, the New York Police Department’s chief spokesman. 

Reg Bloor

---

From: "mald...@aol.com" <mald...@aol.com>
To: shhh...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 5:48 PM

[Alaina Stamatis]

It's definitely too far.

[Aviv]

I think the most important thing the Silent Barn has going for it is it's people and it's atmosphere. You guys can turn any space into a great space. There's no reason imo, to choose one that's so far out of the way.