I just gave my lightning talk about MediaGoblin (decentralized, FOSS
YouTube/Flickr/SoundCloud/Thingiverse replacement) at Sector 67 and someone
said, "Post that campaign link to the list!" And so... done!
http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html
> I just gave my lightning talk about MediaGoblin (decentralized, FOSS
> YouTube/Flickr/SoundCloud/Thingiverse replacement) at Sector 67 and someone
> said, "Post that campaign link to the list!" And so... done!
> http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html
> Thanks! I really enjoyed your presentation, its a cool project.
> Once the 3d model repository is stable, I could see that being of
> great benefit to sector. Will play with it for sure!
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Christopher Allan Webber
> <cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>> Heya all,
>> I just gave my lightning talk about MediaGoblin (decentralized, FOSS
>> YouTube/Flickr/SoundCloud/Thingiverse replacement) at Sector 67 and someone
>> said, "Post that campaign link to the list!" And so... done!
>> http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html
Joe Kerman writes:
> Thanks! I really enjoyed your presentation, its a cool project.
> Once the 3d model repository is stable, I could see that being of
> great benefit to sector. Will play with it for sure!
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Christopher Allan Webber
> <cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>> Heya all,
>> I just gave my lightning talk about MediaGoblin (decentralized, FOSS
>> YouTube/Flickr/SoundCloud/Thingiverse replacement) at Sector 67 and someone
>> said, "Post that campaign link to the list!" And so... done!
>> http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html
This isn't actually a good idea for Sector. Like most people in Madison
(and in the US), we have an "asymmetric" connection to the Internet-- this
means we have substantially less upstream (sending stuff to the Internet)
capacity than downstream (watching cat videos).
Since we have so little upstream, trying to host stuff like this locally
will just nuke our ability to actually use the Internet in the shop, while
at the same time, frustrating anyone trying to watch any videos we actually
host on this MediaGoblin.
So it's not good for Sector to run one locally. Now, take the fact that 1)
almost everyone in the US has a broadly asymmetric connection, and 2) the
part in that video where it shows the Internet with multiple redundant
equal connections, so it can route around damage, is factually untrue, and
you start to dramatically decrease the utility of things like this. Work
like the Diaspora project can function *anyway*, because it needs so much
less bandwidth---but for things like MediaGoblin, you need to fundamentally
alter the state of national broadband networks (not just in the local ISPs,
but the way regional and national ISPs interconnect and exchange traffic)
before they become even remotely useful.
If you're interested, http://thefnf.org/ is working on that issue. (I
reserve comment on whether they can succeed.)
---Brendan O'Connor
On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Christopher Allan Webber <
cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
> Thank you! I'd definitely be interested in getting an instance running
> at Sector 67! I think hackerspaces would be great users of this
> software :)
> Joe Kerman writes:
> > Thanks! I really enjoyed your presentation, its a cool project.
> > Once the 3d model repository is stable, I could see that being of
> > great benefit to sector. Will play with it for sure!
> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Christopher Allan Webber
> > <cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
> >> Heya all,
> >> I just gave my lightning talk about MediaGoblin (decentralized, FOSS
> >> YouTube/Flickr/SoundCloud/Thingiverse replacement) at Sector 67 and
> someone
> >> said, "Post that campaign link to the list!" And so... done!
> >> http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html
People at the meeting were talking about it to exchange and publish STL
files and such for projects they're working on with the 3d
support... those aren't very heavy.
But anyway, if people are interested, I'm happy to help set it up, if
not, that's fine also. :)
Brendan O'Connor writes:
> This isn't actually a good idea for Sector. Like most people in Madison
> (and in the US), we have an "asymmetric" connection to the Internet-- this
> means we have substantially less upstream (sending stuff to the Internet)
> capacity than downstream (watching cat videos).
> Since we have so little upstream, trying to host stuff like this locally
> will just nuke our ability to actually use the Internet in the shop, while
> at the same time, frustrating anyone trying to watch any videos we actually
> host on this MediaGoblin.
> So it's not good for Sector to run one locally. Now, take the fact that 1)
> almost everyone in the US has a broadly asymmetric connection, and 2) the
> part in that video where it shows the Internet with multiple redundant
> equal connections, so it can route around damage, is factually untrue, and
> you start to dramatically decrease the utility of things like this. Work
> like the Diaspora project can function *anyway*, because it needs so much
> less bandwidth---but for things like MediaGoblin, you need to fundamentally
> alter the state of national broadband networks (not just in the local ISPs,
> but the way regional and national ISPs interconnect and exchange traffic)
> before they become even remotely useful.
> If you're interested, http://thefnf.org/ is working on that issue. (I
> reserve comment on whether they can succeed.)
> ---Brendan O'Connor
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Christopher Allan Webber <
> cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>> Thank you! I'd definitely be interested in getting an instance running
>> at Sector 67! I think hackerspaces would be great users of this
>> software :)
>> Joe Kerman writes:
>> > Thanks! I really enjoyed your presentation, its a cool project.
>> > Once the 3d model repository is stable, I could see that being of
>> > great benefit to sector. Will play with it for sure!
>> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Christopher Allan Webber
>> > <cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>> >> Heya all,
>> >> I just gave my lightning talk about MediaGoblin (decentralized, FOSS
>> >> YouTube/Flickr/SoundCloud/Thingiverse replacement) at Sector 67 and
>> someone
>> >> said, "Post that campaign link to the list!" And so... done!
>> >> http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html
Chris, thank you for presenting your project at our monthly meeting.
I think it's a GREAT[?] idea to set up a MediaGoblin at Sector to collect
all the cool stuff we make.
Before you let Brendan's words discourage you about MediaGoblin's
usefulness, keep in mind that he's funded by the military-industrial
complex whose interest in consolidated power is subverted by popularizing
decentralization. As for the present-day network connection, I believe we
have technology in our network at Sector called QoS that can minimize
disruptions by allocating the available bandwidth fairly.
Best luck to you and your exciting work.
Mark
On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Christopher Allan Webber <
cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
> People at the meeting were talking about it to exchange and publish STL
> files and such for projects they're working on with the 3d
> support... those aren't very heavy.
> But anyway, if people are interested, I'm happy to help set it up, if
> not, that's fine also. :)
> Brendan O'Connor writes:
>> This isn't actually a good idea for Sector. Like most people in Madison
>> (and in the US), we have an "asymmetric" connection to the Internet--
this
>> means we have substantially less upstream (sending stuff to the Internet)
>> capacity than downstream (watching cat videos).
>> Since we have so little upstream, trying to host stuff like this locally
>> will just nuke our ability to actually use the Internet in the shop,
while
>> at the same time, frustrating anyone trying to watch any videos we
actually
>> host on this MediaGoblin.
>> So it's not good for Sector to run one locally. Now, take the fact that
1)
>> almost everyone in the US has a broadly asymmetric connection, and 2) the
>> part in that video where it shows the Internet with multiple redundant
>> equal connections, so it can route around damage, is factually untrue,
and
>> you start to dramatically decrease the utility of things like this. Work
>> like the Diaspora project can function *anyway*, because it needs so much
>> less bandwidth---but for things like MediaGoblin, you need to
fundamentally
>> alter the state of national broadband networks (not just in the local
ISPs,
>> but the way regional and national ISPs interconnect and exchange traffic)
>> before they become even remotely useful.
>> If you're interested, http://thefnf.org/ is working on that issue. (I
>> reserve comment on whether they can succeed.)
>> ---Brendan O'Connor
>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Christopher Allan Webber <
>> cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>>> Thank you! I'd definitely be interested in getting an instance running
>>> at Sector 67! I think hackerspaces would be great users of this
>>> software :)
>>> Joe Kerman writes:
>>> > Thanks! I really enjoyed your presentation, its a cool project.
>>> > Once the 3d model repository is stable, I could see that being of
>>> > great benefit to sector. Will play with it for sure!
>>> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Christopher Allan Webber
>>> > <cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>>> >> Heya all,
>>> >> I just gave my lightning talk about MediaGoblin (decentralized, FOSS
>>> >> YouTube/Flickr/SoundCloud/Thingiverse replacement) at Sector 67 and
>>> someone
>>> >> said, "Post that campaign link to the list!" And so... done!
>>> >> http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html
>>> >> Also, people seemed particularly excited about the new 3d model
>>> >> support. You can read more about that here:
>>> >> http://mediagoblin.org/news/3d-support.html
>>> >> So yeah! We're in our last week... anything you can do to support us
>>> >> and spread the word is massively appreciated!
Mark, I've always loved ad hominem attacks directed at me; they prove
how truly gutless the attacker is.
If you have a problem with me or my work, have the basic vertebrae to
discuss it with me. You might find that-- shocker!-- my work is more
complex than you think. On the other hand, if you had to appreciate
complexity, you wouldn't be able to make this sort of drive-by.
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Mark Kostreva <kostr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris, thank you for presenting your project at our monthly meeting.
> I think it's a GREAT idea to set up a MediaGoblin at Sector to collect all
> the cool stuff we make.
> Before you let Brendan's words discourage you about MediaGoblin's
> usefulness, keep in mind that he's funded by the military-industrial complex
> whose interest in consolidated power is subverted by popularizing
> decentralization. As for the present-day network connection, I believe we
> have technology in our network at Sector called QoS that can minimize
> disruptions by allocating the available bandwidth fairly.
> Best luck to you and your exciting work.
> Mark
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Christopher Allan Webber
> <cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
> > People at the meeting were talking about it to exchange and publish STL
> > files and such for projects they're working on with the 3d
> > support... those aren't very heavy.
> > But anyway, if people are interested, I'm happy to help set it up, if
> > not, that's fine also. :)
> > Brendan O'Connor writes:
> >> This isn't actually a good idea for Sector. Like most people in Madison
> >> (and in the US), we have an "asymmetric" connection to the Internet--
> >> this
> >> means we have substantially less upstream (sending stuff to the
> >> Internet)
> >> capacity than downstream (watching cat videos).
> >> Since we have so little upstream, trying to host stuff like this
> >> locally
> >> will just nuke our ability to actually use the Internet in the shop,
> >> while
> >> at the same time, frustrating anyone trying to watch any videos we
> >> actually
> >> host on this MediaGoblin.
> >> So it's not good for Sector to run one locally. Now, take the fact that
> >> 1)
> >> almost everyone in the US has a broadly asymmetric connection, and 2)
> >> the
> >> part in that video where it shows the Internet with multiple redundant
> >> equal connections, so it can route around damage, is factually untrue,
> >> and
> >> you start to dramatically decrease the utility of things like this.
> >> Work
> >> like the Diaspora project can function *anyway*, because it needs so
> >> much
> >> less bandwidth---but for things like MediaGoblin, you need to
> >> fundamentally
> >> alter the state of national broadband networks (not just in the local
> >> ISPs,
> >> but the way regional and national ISPs interconnect and exchange
> >> traffic)
> >> before they become even remotely useful.
> >> If you're interested, http://thefnf.org/ is working on that issue. (I
> >> reserve comment on whether they can succeed.)
> >> ---Brendan O'Connor
> >> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Christopher Allan Webber <
> >> cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
> >>> Thank you! I'd definitely be interested in getting an instance
> >>> running
> >>> at Sector 67! I think hackerspaces would be great users of this
> >>> software :)
> >>> Joe Kerman writes:
> >>> > Thanks! I really enjoyed your presentation, its a cool project.
> >>> > Once the 3d model repository is stable, I could see that being of
> >>> > great benefit to sector. Will play with it for sure!
> >>> > On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Christopher Allan Webber
> >>> > <cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
> >>> >> Heya all,
> >>> >> I just gave my lightning talk about MediaGoblin (decentralized,
> >>> >> FOSS
> >>> >> YouTube/Flickr/SoundCloud/Thingiverse replacement) at Sector 67 and
> >>> someone
> >>> >> said, "Post that campaign link to the list!" And so... done!
> >>> >> http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html
> >>> >> Also, people seemed particularly excited about the new 3d model
> >>> >> support. You can read more about that here:
> >>> >> http://mediagoblin.org/news/3d-support.html
> >>> >> So yeah! We're in our last week... anything you can do to support
> >>> >> us
> >>> >> and spread the word is massively appreciated!
My paycheck comes from a company where I build closed-source software, so I can't say that GNU Hurd is silly and they should contribute to Linux instead?
If the situation hasn't changed recently, the space has 6Mb down/1Mb up, or something like that, with the smaller number being the significant one in this application. QoS is nothing more than the metered on-ramps that everyone hates: it can't make the freeway have more lanes.
On the other hand, STL files are what, a kilobyte or two? That shouldn't be a problem (not to say that I've used MediaGoblin or know what it entails).
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 16, 2012, at 11:18 AM, "Brendan O'Connor" <ussj...@ussjoin.com> wrote:
> Mark, I've always loved ad hominem attacks directed at me; they prove
> how truly gutless the attacker is.
> If you have a problem with me or my work, have the basic vertebrae to
> discuss it with me. You might find that-- shocker!-- my work is more
> complex than you think. On the other hand, if you had to appreciate
> complexity, you wouldn't be able to make this sort of drive-by.
> Good luck in your future endeavors.
> ---Brendan O'Connor
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Mark Kostreva <kostr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Chris, thank you for presenting your project at our monthly meeting.
>> I think it's a GREAT idea to set up a MediaGoblin at Sector to collect all
>> the cool stuff we make.
>> Before you let Brendan's words discourage you about MediaGoblin's
>> usefulness, keep in mind that he's funded by the military-industrial complex
>> whose interest in consolidated power is subverted by popularizing
>> decentralization. As for the present-day network connection, I believe we
>> have technology in our network at Sector called QoS that can minimize
>> disruptions by allocating the available bandwidth fairly.
>> Best luck to you and your exciting work.
>> Mark
>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Christopher Allan Webber
>> <cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>>> People at the meeting were talking about it to exchange and publish STL
>>> files and such for projects they're working on with the 3d
>>> support... those aren't very heavy.
>>> But anyway, if people are interested, I'm happy to help set it up, if
>>> not, that's fine also. :)
>>> Brendan O'Connor writes:
>>>> This isn't actually a good idea for Sector. Like most people in Madison
>>>> (and in the US), we have an "asymmetric" connection to the Internet--
>>>> this
>>>> means we have substantially less upstream (sending stuff to the
>>>> Internet)
>>>> capacity than downstream (watching cat videos).
>>>> Since we have so little upstream, trying to host stuff like this
>>>> locally
>>>> will just nuke our ability to actually use the Internet in the shop,
>>>> while
>>>> at the same time, frustrating anyone trying to watch any videos we
>>>> actually
>>>> host on this MediaGoblin.
>>>> So it's not good for Sector to run one locally. Now, take the fact that
>>>> 1)
>>>> almost everyone in the US has a broadly asymmetric connection, and 2)
>>>> the
>>>> part in that video where it shows the Internet with multiple redundant
>>>> equal connections, so it can route around damage, is factually untrue,
>>>> and
>>>> you start to dramatically decrease the utility of things like this.
>>>> Work
>>>> like the Diaspora project can function *anyway*, because it needs so
>>>> much
>>>> less bandwidth---but for things like MediaGoblin, you need to
>>>> fundamentally
>>>> alter the state of national broadband networks (not just in the local
>>>> ISPs,
>>>> but the way regional and national ISPs interconnect and exchange
>>>> traffic)
>>>> before they become even remotely useful.
>>>> If you're interested, http://thefnf.org/ is working on that issue. (I
>>>> reserve comment on whether they can succeed.)
>>>> ---Brendan O'Connor
>>>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Christopher Allan Webber <
>>>> cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>>>>> Thank you! I'd definitely be interested in getting an instance
>>>>> running
>>>>> at Sector 67! I think hackerspaces would be great users of this
>>>>> software :)
>>>>> Joe Kerman writes:
>>>>>> Thanks! I really enjoyed your presentation, its a cool project.
>>>>>> Once the 3d model repository is stable, I could see that being of
>>>>>> great benefit to sector. Will play with it for sure!
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Christopher Allan Webber
>>>>>> <cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Heya all,
>>>>>>> I just gave my lightning talk about MediaGoblin (decentralized,
>>>>>>> FOSS
>>>>>>> YouTube/Flickr/SoundCloud/Thingiverse replacement) at Sector 67 and
>>>>> someone
>>>>>>> said, "Post that campaign link to the list!" And so... done!
>>>>>>> http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html
>>>>>>> Also, people seemed particularly excited about the new 3d model
>>>>>>> support. You can read more about that here:
>>>>>>> http://mediagoblin.org/news/3d-support.html
>>>>>>> So yeah! We're in our last week... anything you can do to support
>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>> and spread the word is massively appreciated!
allow me to shed some needed light on this thread.
current deal at sector for networking stuff:
-ATT adsl2+ (not vdsl2, the loop is too long, would do no good, and
ATT has no VRAD chassis anywhere near the site anyway)
-11.2 mbit usable phy rate downstream
-1.1 mbit usable phy rate upstream
-shaped in cisco 7505 router to 10.5 mbit downstream, and .98 mbit upstream
-shaped queues have the following QoS policies applied:
policy-map downstream
class class-default
fair-queue
fair-queue queue-limit 32
policy-map upstream
class class-default
fair-queue
fair-queue queue-limit 8
-the router has plenty of memory for hundreds of thousands of NAT
flows/dynamic translations
-the 'core switch' doing layer-3 vlan boundary duty is stateless and
can handle any collection of ethernet/IP traffic thrown at it
the "qos" created with fair-queue is fine for then few ten's of dozens
that ever compete for up/downstream bandwidth -- the issue that may be
encountered hosting a media related site (even if only for small
files) would be, naturally, content and popularity dependent.
at the outside, the service times/reply times would be exaggerated (by
upstream contention) to the point where remote users might just give
up.
i might suggest that sector pool some resources to toss a 1u box in
the 5nines sandbox, for a low rate, where we can hand out gige ports
without a lot of hassel, and where we have multiple gige's of capacity
on tap.
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 1:29 PM, William LaFrance <wjlafra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My paycheck comes from a company where I build closed-source software, so I can't say that GNU Hurd is silly and they should contribute to Linux instead?
> If the situation hasn't changed recently, the space has 6Mb down/1Mb up, or something like that, with the smaller number being the significant one in this application. QoS is nothing more than the metered on-ramps that everyone hates: it can't make the freeway have more lanes.
> On the other hand, STL files are what, a kilobyte or two? That shouldn't be a problem (not to say that I've used MediaGoblin or know what it entails).
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 16, 2012, at 11:18 AM, "Brendan O'Connor" <ussj...@ussjoin.com> wrote:
>> Wow.
>> Mark, I've always loved ad hominem attacks directed at me; they prove
>> how truly gutless the attacker is.
>> If you have a problem with me or my work, have the basic vertebrae to
>> discuss it with me. You might find that-- shocker!-- my work is more
>> complex than you think. On the other hand, if you had to appreciate
>> complexity, you wouldn't be able to make this sort of drive-by.
>> Good luck in your future endeavors.
>> ---Brendan O'Connor
>> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Mark Kostreva <kostr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Chris, thank you for presenting your project at our monthly meeting.
>>> I think it's a GREAT idea to set up a MediaGoblin at Sector to collect all
>>> the cool stuff we make.
>>> Before you let Brendan's words discourage you about MediaGoblin's
>>> usefulness, keep in mind that he's funded by the military-industrial complex
>>> whose interest in consolidated power is subverted by popularizing
>>> decentralization. As for the present-day network connection, I believe we
>>> have technology in our network at Sector called QoS that can minimize
>>> disruptions by allocating the available bandwidth fairly.
>>> Best luck to you and your exciting work.
>>> Mark
>>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Christopher Allan Webber
>>> <cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>>>> People at the meeting were talking about it to exchange and publish STL
>>>> files and such for projects they're working on with the 3d
>>>> support... those aren't very heavy.
>>>> But anyway, if people are interested, I'm happy to help set it up, if
>>>> not, that's fine also. :)
>>>> Brendan O'Connor writes:
>>>>> This isn't actually a good idea for Sector. Like most people in Madison
>>>>> (and in the US), we have an "asymmetric" connection to the Internet--
>>>>> this
>>>>> means we have substantially less upstream (sending stuff to the
>>>>> Internet)
>>>>> capacity than downstream (watching cat videos).
>>>>> Since we have so little upstream, trying to host stuff like this
>>>>> locally
>>>>> will just nuke our ability to actually use the Internet in the shop,
>>>>> while
>>>>> at the same time, frustrating anyone trying to watch any videos we
>>>>> actually
>>>>> host on this MediaGoblin.
>>>>> So it's not good for Sector to run one locally. Now, take the fact that
>>>>> 1)
>>>>> almost everyone in the US has a broadly asymmetric connection, and 2)
>>>>> the
>>>>> part in that video where it shows the Internet with multiple redundant
>>>>> equal connections, so it can route around damage, is factually untrue,
>>>>> and
>>>>> you start to dramatically decrease the utility of things like this.
>>>>> Work
>>>>> like the Diaspora project can function *anyway*, because it needs so
>>>>> much
>>>>> less bandwidth---but for things like MediaGoblin, you need to
>>>>> fundamentally
>>>>> alter the state of national broadband networks (not just in the local
>>>>> ISPs,
>>>>> but the way regional and national ISPs interconnect and exchange
>>>>> traffic)
>>>>> before they become even remotely useful.
>>>>> If you're interested, http://thefnf.org/ is working on that issue. (I
>>>>> reserve comment on whether they can succeed.)
>>>>> ---Brendan O'Connor
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Christopher Allan Webber <
>>>>> cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Thank you! I'd definitely be interested in getting an instance
>>>>>> running
>>>>>> at Sector 67! I think hackerspaces would be great users of this
>>>>>> software :)
>>>>>> Joe Kerman writes:
>>>>>>> Thanks! I really enjoyed your presentation, its a cool project.
>>>>>>> Once the 3d model repository is stable, I could see that being of
>>>>>>> great benefit to sector. Will play with it for sure!
>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Christopher Allan Webber
>>>>>>> <cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Heya all,
>>>>>>>> I just gave my lightning talk about MediaGoblin (decentralized,
>>>>>>>> FOSS
>>>>>>>> YouTube/Flickr/SoundCloud/Thingiverse replacement) at Sector 67 and
>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>> said, "Post that campaign link to the list!" And so... done!
>>>>>>>> http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html
>>>>>>>> Also, people seemed particularly excited about the new 3d model
>>>>>>>> support. You can read more about that here:
>>>>>>>> http://mediagoblin.org/news/3d-support.html
>>>>>>>> So yeah! We're in our last week... anything you can do to support
>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>> and spread the word is massively appreciated!
Great info, but the light you are shedding is barely visible outside
net-geek frequencies. Can you translate for the rest of us?
I'm guessing the lack of upstream bandwidth means we shouldn't host large
files (like videos), unless they're not popular.
What I understand is that if Sector hosts a media server on its own
network, then anyone not at Sector downloading from that server requires
the server to send the data "up" to the internet, which would quickly use
up all of the 1 Mbps (one million bits per second, 7.5 MB per minute)
upstream bandwidth available.
Do the QoS (quality of service) settings take care of it by slowing down
large transfers so that smaller ones are not slowed much?
A media server needs a faster internet connection. Sector's own website is
hosted externally, not on our in-house network.
10 Mbps downstream, 1 Mbps upstream is pretty small these days -- I have
better than that at home. Is it expensive to upgrade because we pay
business rates?
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Anton Kapela <tkap...@gmail.com> wrote:
> allow me to shed some needed light on this thread.
> current deal at sector for networking stuff:
> -ATT adsl2+ (not vdsl2, the loop is too long, would do no good, and
> ATT has no VRAD chassis anywhere near the site anyway)
> -11.2 mbit usable phy rate downstream
> -1.1 mbit usable phy rate upstream
> -shaped in cisco 7505 router to 10.5 mbit downstream, and .98 mbit upstream
> -shaped queues have the following QoS policies applied:
> -the router has plenty of memory for hundreds of thousands of NAT
> flows/dynamic translations
> -the 'core switch' doing layer-3 vlan boundary duty is stateless and
> can handle any collection of ethernet/IP traffic thrown at it
> the "qos" created with fair-queue is fine for then few ten's of dozens
> that ever compete for up/downstream bandwidth -- the issue that may be
> encountered hosting a media related site (even if only for small
> files) would be, naturally, content and popularity dependent.
> at the outside, the service times/reply times would be exaggerated (by
> upstream contention) to the point where remote users might just give
> up.
> i might suggest that sector pool some resources to toss a 1u box in
> the 5nines sandbox, for a low rate, where we can hand out gige ports
> without a lot of hassel, and where we have multiple gige's of capacity
> on tap.
> -tk
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 1:29 PM, William LaFrance <wjlafra...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > My paycheck comes from a company where I build closed-source software,
> so I can't say that GNU Hurd is silly and they should contribute to Linux
> instead?
> > If the situation hasn't changed recently, the space has 6Mb down/1Mb up,
> or something like that, with the smaller number being the significant one
> in this application. QoS is nothing more than the metered on-ramps that
> everyone hates: it can't make the freeway have more lanes.
> > On the other hand, STL files are what, a kilobyte or two? That shouldn't
> be a problem (not to say that I've used MediaGoblin or know what it
> entails).
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > On Nov 16, 2012, at 11:18 AM, "Brendan O'Connor" <ussj...@ussjoin.com>
> wrote:
> >> Wow.
> >> Mark, I've always loved ad hominem attacks directed at me; they prove
> >> how truly gutless the attacker is.
> >> If you have a problem with me or my work, have the basic vertebrae to
> >> discuss it with me. You might find that-- shocker!-- my work is more
> >> complex than you think. On the other hand, if you had to appreciate
> >> complexity, you wouldn't be able to make this sort of drive-by.
> >> Good luck in your future endeavors.
> >> ---Brendan O'Connor
> >> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Mark Kostreva <kostr...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> Chris, thank you for presenting your project at our monthly meeting.
> >>> I think it's a GREAT idea to set up a MediaGoblin at Sector to collect
> all
> >>> the cool stuff we make.
> >>> Before you let Brendan's words discourage you about MediaGoblin's
> >>> usefulness, keep in mind that he's funded by the military-industrial
> complex
> >>> whose interest in consolidated power is subverted by popularizing
> >>> decentralization. As for the present-day network connection, I believe
> we
> >>> have technology in our network at Sector called QoS that can minimize
> >>> disruptions by allocating the available bandwidth fairly.
> >>> Best luck to you and your exciting work.
> >>> Mark
> >>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Christopher Allan Webber
> >>> <cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
> >>>> People at the meeting were talking about it to exchange and publish
> STL
> >>>> files and such for projects they're working on with the 3d
> >>>> support... those aren't very heavy.
> >>>> But anyway, if people are interested, I'm happy to help set it up, if
> >>>> not, that's fine also. :)
> >>>> Brendan O'Connor writes:
> >>>>> This isn't actually a good idea for Sector. Like most people in
> Madison
> >>>>> (and in the US), we have an "asymmetric" connection to the Internet--
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> means we have substantially less upstream (sending stuff to the
> >>>>> Internet)
> >>>>> capacity than downstream (watching cat videos).
> >>>>> Since we have so little upstream, trying to host stuff like this
> >>>>> locally
> >>>>> will just nuke our ability to actually use the Internet in the shop,
> >>>>> while
> >>>>> at the same time, frustrating anyone trying to watch any videos we
> >>>>> actually
> >>>>> host on this MediaGoblin.
> >>>>> So it's not good for Sector to run one locally. Now, take the fact
> that
> >>>>> 1)
> >>>>> almost everyone in the US has a broadly asymmetric connection, and 2)
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> part in that video where it shows the Internet with multiple
> redundant
> >>>>> equal connections, so it can route around damage, is factually
> untrue,
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> you start to dramatically decrease the utility of things like this.
> >>>>> Work
> >>>>> like the Diaspora project can function *anyway*, because it needs so
> >>>>> much
> >>>>> less bandwidth---but for things like MediaGoblin, you need to
> >>>>> fundamentally
> >>>>> alter the state of national broadband networks (not just in the local
> >>>>> ISPs,
> >>>>> but the way regional and national ISPs interconnect and exchange
> >>>>> traffic)
> >>>>> before they become even remotely useful.
> >>>>> If you're interested, http://thefnf.org/ is working on that issue.
> (I
> >>>>> reserve comment on whether they can succeed.)
> >>>>> ---Brendan O'Connor
> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Christopher Allan Webber <
> >>>>> cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
> >>>>>> Thank you! I'd definitely be interested in getting an instance
> >>>>>> running
> >>>>>> at Sector 67! I think hackerspaces would be great users of this
> >>>>>> software :)
> >>>>>> Joe Kerman writes:
> >>>>>>> Thanks! I really enjoyed your presentation, its a cool project.
> >>>>>>> Once the 3d model repository is stable, I could see that being of
> >>>>>>> great benefit to sector. Will play with it for sure!
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Christopher Allan Webber
> >>>>>>> <cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Heya all,
> >>>>>>>> I just gave my lightning talk about MediaGoblin (decentralized,
> >>>>>>>> FOSS
> >>>>>>>> YouTube/Flickr/SoundCloud/Thingiverse replacement) at Sector 67
> and
> >>>>>> someone
> >>>>>>>> said, "Post that campaign link to the list!" And so... done!
> >>>>>>>> http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html
> >>>>>>>> Also, people seemed particularly excited about the new 3d model
> >>>>>>>> support. You can read more about that here:
> >>>>>>>> http://mediagoblin.org/news/3d-support.html
> >>>>>>>> So yeah! We're in our last week... anything you can do to support
> >>>>>>>> us
> >>>>>>>> and spread the word is massively appreciated!
Basically, he's saying the same thing that Brendan said. A 1Mbps upstream
isn't an idle hosting environment, anywhere, not even if you just have 5-10
regular users. Though at that small of a user base, they'd probably
tolerate the slowness.
As Brendan was saying, almost all the affordable network access is
asymmetrical, making it fast to grab data from hosted servers on fast
backbones, but pretty darn sucky for hosting things yourself. My home
office connection is 32Mbps/5Mbps and we still host all of our servers
offsite. In fact, we either just use a good ISP or a colocation facility.
AT&T and other provides will band together T1 or T3 lines for you, if you
need and while that's generally cheaper than paying to get true fiber, it
will cost you way more than what you spend on your ADSL or Cable
connection. Way more. Of course you could just get the synchronous T1 or T3
connection, but they typically have less downstream than your average DSL
connection these days.
Generally, speaking, for these types of projects, if Sector67 was
interested, they'd act more as a co-sponsor or co-host, rather than a host,
per say— meaning the server would be located somewhere other than Sector67,
perhaps 5Nines or SupraNet, etc. so it doesn't interfere with the
day-to-day operational internet needs of Sector67.
Colocation is much more affordable than what it use to be, as are virtual
server clusters. It wouldn't really stop take down notices, since even if
the server was hosted at Sector67, the person issuing the notice has the
right to go to ISP or telecommunication host to stop services or block
access to the service—think of all those BitTorrent blocks and throttles.
Alnisa
.....................
Alnisa Allgood
Executive Director
Nonprofit Tech
t. 608.241.3616
e. aln...@nonprofit-tech.org
On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Davi P <dav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Great info, but the light you are shedding is barely visible outside
> net-geek frequencies. Can you translate for the rest of us?
> I'm guessing the lack of upstream bandwidth means we shouldn't host large
> files (like videos), unless they're not popular.
> What I understand is that if Sector hosts a media server on its own
> network, then anyone not at Sector downloading from that server requires
> the server to send the data "up" to the internet, which would quickly use
> up all of the 1 Mbps (one million bits per second, 7.5 MB per minute)
> upstream bandwidth available.
> Do the QoS (quality of service) settings take care of it by slowing down
> large transfers so that smaller ones are not slowed much?
> A media server needs a faster internet connection. Sector's own website is
> hosted externally, not on our in-house network.
> 10 Mbps downstream, 1 Mbps upstream is pretty small these days -- I have
> better than that at home. Is it expensive to upgrade because we pay
> business rates?
> --Davi
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Anton Kapela <tkap...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> allow me to shed some needed light on this thread.
>> current deal at sector for networking stuff:
>> -ATT adsl2+ (not vdsl2, the loop is too long, would do no good, and
>> ATT has no VRAD chassis anywhere near the site anyway)
>> -11.2 mbit usable phy rate downstream
>> -1.1 mbit usable phy rate upstream
>> -shaped in cisco 7505 router to 10.5 mbit downstream, and .98 mbit
>> upstream
>> -shaped queues have the following QoS policies applied:
>> -the router has plenty of memory for hundreds of thousands of NAT
>> flows/dynamic translations
>> -the 'core switch' doing layer-3 vlan boundary duty is stateless and
>> can handle any collection of ethernet/IP traffic thrown at it
>> the "qos" created with fair-queue is fine for then few ten's of dozens
>> that ever compete for up/downstream bandwidth -- the issue that may be
>> encountered hosting a media related site (even if only for small
>> files) would be, naturally, content and popularity dependent.
>> at the outside, the service times/reply times would be exaggerated (by
>> upstream contention) to the point where remote users might just give
>> up.
>> i might suggest that sector pool some resources to toss a 1u box in
>> the 5nines sandbox, for a low rate, where we can hand out gige ports
>> without a lot of hassel, and where we have multiple gige's of capacity
>> on tap.
>> -tk
>> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 1:29 PM, William LaFrance <wjlafra...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > My paycheck comes from a company where I build closed-source software,
>> so I can't say that GNU Hurd is silly and they should contribute to Linux
>> instead?
>> > If the situation hasn't changed recently, the space has 6Mb down/1Mb
>> up, or something like that, with the smaller number being the significant
>> one in this application. QoS is nothing more than the metered on-ramps that
>> everyone hates: it can't make the freeway have more lanes.
>> > On the other hand, STL files are what, a kilobyte or two? That
>> shouldn't be a problem (not to say that I've used MediaGoblin or know what
>> it entails).
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> > On Nov 16, 2012, at 11:18 AM, "Brendan O'Connor" <ussj...@ussjoin.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> Wow.
>> >> Mark, I've always loved ad hominem attacks directed at me; they prove
>> >> how truly gutless the attacker is.
>> >> If you have a problem with me or my work, have the basic vertebrae to
>> >> discuss it with me. You might find that-- shocker!-- my work is more
>> >> complex than you think. On the other hand, if you had to appreciate
>> >> complexity, you wouldn't be able to make this sort of drive-by.
>> >> Good luck in your future endeavors.
>> >> ---Brendan O'Connor
>> >> On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Mark Kostreva <kostr...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>> Chris, thank you for presenting your project at our monthly meeting.
>> >>> I think it's a GREAT idea to set up a MediaGoblin at Sector to
>> collect all
>> >>> the cool stuff we make.
>> >>> Before you let Brendan's words discourage you about MediaGoblin's
>> >>> usefulness, keep in mind that he's funded by the military-industrial
>> complex
>> >>> whose interest in consolidated power is subverted by popularizing
>> >>> decentralization. As for the present-day network connection, I
>> believe we
>> >>> have technology in our network at Sector called QoS that can minimize
>> >>> disruptions by allocating the available bandwidth fairly.
>> >>> Best luck to you and your exciting work.
>> >>> Mark
>> >>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Christopher Allan Webber
>> >>> <cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>> >>>> People at the meeting were talking about it to exchange and publish
>> STL
>> >>>> files and such for projects they're working on with the 3d
>> >>>> support... those aren't very heavy.
>> >>>> But anyway, if people are interested, I'm happy to help set it up, if
>> >>>> not, that's fine also. :)
>> >>>> Brendan O'Connor writes:
>> >>>>> This isn't actually a good idea for Sector. Like most people in
>> Madison
>> >>>>> (and in the US), we have an "asymmetric" connection to the
>> Internet--
>> >>>>> this
>> >>>>> means we have substantially less upstream (sending stuff to the
>> >>>>> Internet)
>> >>>>> capacity than downstream (watching cat videos).
>> >>>>> Since we have so little upstream, trying to host stuff like this
>> >>>>> locally
>> >>>>> will just nuke our ability to actually use the Internet in the shop,
>> >>>>> while
>> >>>>> at the same time, frustrating anyone trying to watch any videos we
>> >>>>> actually
>> >>>>> host on this MediaGoblin.
>> >>>>> So it's not good for Sector to run one locally. Now, take the fact
>> that
>> >>>>> 1)
>> >>>>> almost everyone in the US has a broadly asymmetric connection, and
>> 2)
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> part in that video where it shows the Internet with multiple
>> redundant
>> >>>>> equal connections, so it can route around damage, is factually
>> untrue,
>> >>>>> and
>> >>>>> you start to dramatically decrease the utility of things like this.
>> >>>>> Work
>> >>>>> like the Diaspora project can function *anyway*, because it needs so
>> >>>>> much
>> >>>>> less bandwidth---but for things like MediaGoblin, you need to
>> >>>>> fundamentally
>> >>>>> alter the state of national broadband networks (not just in the
>> local
>> >>>>> ISPs,
>> >>>>> but the way regional and national ISPs interconnect and exchange
>> >>>>> traffic)
>> >>>>> before they become even remotely useful.
>> >>>>> If you're interested, http://thefnf.org/ is working on that issue.
>> (I
>> >>>>> reserve comment on whether they can succeed.)
>> >>>>> ---Brendan O'Connor
>> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Christopher Allan Webber <
>> >>>>> cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>> Thank you! I'd definitely be interested in getting an instance
>> >>>>>> running
>> >>>>>> at Sector 67! I think hackerspaces would be great users of this
>> >>>>>> software :)
>> >>>>>> Joe Kerman writes:
>> >>>>>>> Thanks! I really enjoyed your presentation, its a cool project.
>> >>>>>>> Once the 3d model repository is stable, I could see that being of
>> >>>>>>> great benefit to sector. Will play with it for sure!
>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Christopher Allan Webber
>> >>>>>>> <cweb...@dustycloud.org> wrote:
