Question on a Wyse 30 terminal + H8
Alex - K3CIM
need some assistance. if i have a televideo terminal connected the h8
communicates just fine. if i take the same cable and connect it to the
Wyse 30 terminal nothing displays. if i set it to half duplex, i get
what i type on the keyboard(single characters not double). baud rate
is the same as the televideo (9600) nothing display upon boot up, but
if i wait a bit and type "dir" the disk starts up and acts like it it
doing the directory. but nothing is displaying on the wyse 30. does
anyone happen to know if there is an option in this terminal that i
am overlooking??? when i look at the user manual it looks like it uses
the standard RS232 seriel on the modem port. which the televideo is
using.
Thanks for any info,
Alex Bodnar
K3CIM
Glenn Roberts
they're configured. When I've used PC emulators I've had to go in and turn
HW handshaking on. I believe the standard cable that came with my H8/H19
setup had pins 1-8 plus pin 20 connected thru. Perhaps there's a "hardware"
handshake option (vs. software, XON XOFF). If so try turning on hardware
handshake.
- glenn
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Alex - K3CIM
there is a "handshaking" option in the Wyse 30 and i have tried it
both ways "xon/xoff" , "DTR" and "both" to no avail.
i will double check the cable lines but if it works on one terminal i
would have thought the cable would work on others???
Alex
Chris Elmquist
You can potentially discover a lot about required hardware handshakes
if you take the terminal by itself and a DB25 connector and loop the
terminal's Tx back to it's Rx (short pin 2 to pin 3) and then start
playing with the handshake signals to see which are required to be
asserted before it will talk back to itself. If you have a volt meter,
you can also look at which lines it asserts or does not as outputs.
RS232 handshake signals (RTS, CTS, DCD, DTR) will be ACTIVE when they are
driven to +12 (or thereabouts). They are inactive when they are at -12.
I am not entirely familar with the H8 output routines but it seems that
if you are not seeing output from the H8 to the terminal, that the H8 is
being blocked from transmitting-- so, as a DCE, it is not seeing CTS,
DCD, DSR or some combination of those, from the terminal (the DTE),
in order to enable the H8's UART to transmit.
In any case, looping the terminal back to itself and getting that to work,
will eliminate concerns with the terminal itself and once you have that,
you can isolate any issue with connecting it to the H8.
Chris N0JCF
--
Chris Elmquist
Glenn Roberts
and see if the two can talk to each other. I suppose since it was an eBay
item there's some possibility that it's not working properly. If the two
can talk to each other via null modem that should tell you something.
-----Original Message-----
From: se...@googlegroups.com [mailto:se...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
Chris N0JCF
--
Chris Elmquist
--
Alex - K3CIM
thank-you both for the information!
Alex
Alex - K3CIM
this seems to be getting more bizarre....
when i connect the two terminals together they talk to each other ok,
what i type on a keyboard of one displays on the other. but when i
connect the same cable to the H8 i get nothing on the Wyse 30. i am at
a loss.... :-(
Bob Groh
I don't have a lot of material sitting around on the subject but in general terms you need to find out what the Wyse needs to receive and display characters. Then you need to find out what the H8 needs (connection-wise) to transmit characters! Somebody is either not getting the right hardware setup to either receive or transmit characters or the characters are not being transmitted/received with the proper number of characters and stop bits and start bits and parity and baud rate!
It would seem that the Wyse must be working and that the H8 must be working. So keep plugging.
Of course, if you get totally discouraged, you can send me the H-8 and I'll give it a good home! Just kidding - sort of.
Bob Groh
Blue Springs, Missouri
Les Bird
Peter Shkabara
I have finally confirmed that messages coming from this list are arriving at gmail as a group. That is, the latest messages I got, which were from Les, Bob, and Alex, showed up on google web mail as one line item from Alex, but the three messages showed up when I opened the message. Google mail also indicated that there were several deleted messages from the same “group”. However, when I retrieved the mail from google using POP3, I received three double messages – two copies of the messages from Les, Bob, and Alex.
Still don’t know why this happens, but assume that it is something with google mail. Just wanted to let the rest of you know in case you run into this same behavior.
Hope all had a Merry Christmas, and wishing you a safe and pleasant New Year.
Peter Shkabara
===================
dwight elvey
> Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 13:03:53 -0800
> Subject: [sebhc] Re: Question on a Wyse 30 terminal + H8
> From: abo...@zoominternet.net
> To: se...@googlegroups.com
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
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>
>
If your sure that the handshake is correct, there is one other thing that I
can think of that might be the problem ( I think it is a handshake issue
myself ). It could be that the H8's serial board is missing the -12v.
Some terminals will work with +5 and 0 signals and others require
the full swing.
What serial board are you using and what baud rate?
Dwight
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Alex - K3CIM
On Dec 26, 10:42 pm, dwight elvey <dkel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 13:03:53 -0800
> > Subject: [sebhc] Re: Question on a Wyse 30 terminal + H8
> > From: abod...@zoominternet.net
> > To: se...@googlegroups.com
>
> > this seems to be getting more bizarre....
> > when i connect the two terminals together they talk to each other ok,
> > what i type on a keyboard of one displays on the other. but when i
> > connect the same cable to the H8 i get nothing on the Wyse 30. i am at
> > a loss.... :-(
>
> > --
>
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "SEBHC" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to se...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sebhc+un...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/sebhc?hl=en.
>
> Hi
>
> If your sure that the handshake is correct, there is one other thing that I
>
> can think of that might be the problem ( I think it is a handshake issue
>
> myself ). It could be that the H8's serial board is missing the -12v.
>
> Some terminals will work with +5 and 0 signals and others require
>
> the full swing.
>
> What serial board are you using and what baud rate?
>
> Dwight
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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Alex - K3CIM
in one of the many tests i had the cable disconnected and booted hdos
3.0 the system stopped and waited at the boot, ignore, checksum
message and after i plugged the cable into the Wyse that boot message
displayed on the Wyse!!!! but nothing since???? there is only 12 of
the 25 lines wired in. the H8-4 does not have a jumper for "no"
interupts, i will try putting the jumper in and see what that does.
alex
Les Bird
message, then it requires interrupts from that point forward.
- Les
On Dec 30, 2009, at 3:04 PM, Alex - K3CIM <abo...@zoominternet.net>
wrote:
>
dwight elvey
The reason I asked is that the H8-5 was not too reliable at
9600 but the H8-4 should be fine.
Have you had a chance to put a scope on the signals to
see if they are making sufficient swings?
Dwight
> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 11:55:13 -0800
> Subject: [sebhc] Re: Question on a Wyse 30 terminal + H8
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Alex - K3CIM
on the H8-4 the "INT" is either on or off, that is the jumper plug is
on or off i dont have a select for a particular interupt. it is
inbetween the two numbers for the octal channel number. and again i
dont feel it is in the H8 since it worked on a H19 and the televideo.
i put the plug in this interupt place but to no avail it it still does
not want to talk.
Alex
Les Bird
From: Alex - K3CIM <abo...@zoominternet.net>
To: SEBHC <se...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, December 31, 2009 2:01:22 PM
Subject: [sebhc] Re: Question on a Wyse 30 terminal + H8
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Chris Elmquist
> Alex,
>
> Take the plug for the interrupt off the top and place at the bottom right of the board where the interrupt jumper blocks are. They are labeled 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 and there are blocks for CH0 through CH3. If you are able to boot to the HDOS prompt using the H19 and Televideo then you're probably right, the problem isn't on the H8. I'd say the problem is in the handshaking in the cable then. Perhaps a wire broke off the DB25 of the Wyse terminal?
I'd offer that the problem is not neccessarily that the H8 is broken--
but that the wyse is not providing an active hardware flow control to
enable for the H8's transmitter. The fact that you see some output
before the OS is booted suggests this to me even more. Once the OS is
booted, then the console driver (as in software driver) begins to obey
the outbound flow control and if the wyse is not asserting it, then the
H8 will be blocked from transmitting.
The short path to solving this is to put an RS232 breakout box between
the H8 and the wyse terminal and look at what flow control signals are
asserted and which are not. You could then also plug one of the terminals
that works in place of the wyse and see which flow controls it asserts.
The difference (ie, whichever the wyse is not asserting) is the problem.
I am H8-challenged so if someone can tell us which hardware flow control
signals it requires to enable its transmitter, then we can focus on just
those lines. It's likely to be one or a combination of RTS or DTR since
the terminal is a DTE and the H8 is a DCE... and RTS and DTR are sourced
by the DTE.
I just checked the H-4 documentation and the only inputs it has (other
than receive data) are RTS and DTR. RTS is on pin 4 and DTR is on pin
20 of the DB25. If you don't have a breakout box, you can use a volt
meter to check the levels on these two signals when a working terminal
is connected and when the non-working wyse is connected. See if the
levels are different on these two signals from the working to the
non-working case.
It's possible that the wyse has been configured to make one or both of
these signals behave differently and therefore they are not asserted
when we'd expect them to be.
You could also try building a cable like this,
H8 wyse
2 ------------- 2
3 ------------- 3
4 --
|
5 --
7 ------------- 7
8 --
|
20 -
which is the traditional method of faking out the hardware flow controls
at the DCE end and then sending only transmit and receive data to and
from the DTE.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
Alex - K3CIM
Success!
as a last resort, i changed the plug on the h8-4 card that goes to the
wyse terminal from the upper plug to the lower. one is DCE and the
other is DTE.
next boot and it worked like a champ. i just dont understand why the
wsye is set one way and the other terminals are the other.
"Thank-You" to all for your suggestions.
Alex
Chris Elmquist
>
>
> Success!
yea!
> as a last resort, i changed the plug on the h8-4 card that goes to the
> wyse terminal from the upper plug to the lower. one is DCE and the
> other is DTE.
> next boot and it worked like a champ. i just dont understand why the
> wsye is set one way and the other terminals are the other.
There really never was a clear "standard" for whether a manufacturer
put a DTE or DCE connection on their device. There were suggested
configurations such as, if it is a terminal, put a DTE pinout on it
because the "T" in DTE is 'terminal'. But, depending on application
and market being addressed, they often made other choices.
Some terminals can be configured so that their one and only connector can
be either DTE or DCE pinout and some even did it via configuration menus.
Inevitably you'd end up with the wrong gender connector then and that
is what brought us "gender benders" or if the equipment could not adjust
its pinout, then we got "null modems" to cross the Tx and Rx and all of
the hardware handshake lines.
Have you been plugging the terminals into the H8 with the same cable
between the H8 and terminal? or have you been using whatever cable is
attached to the terminal and plugging that into the H8? It's possible
that someone has left you with a null modem attached to the Wyse
while all the other terminals have straight-thru / uncrossed cables...
just a thought.
> "Thank-You" to all for your suggestions.
It's great when stuff works like it should!
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
Alex - K3CIM
now to find a termcap for the wyse to use with nzcpr.
Alex
Alex - K3CIM
the wyse worked with cpm just fine, boot, i can enter and recieve
data.
but when i try to boot hdos it just hangs,
if i boot hdos 3.02 it works but hdos 3.0 or lower does not.
i will look around to try to bypass the stop for boot and date.
Alex