Hello all

[Chris]

Good Evening,
I'm a fairly new cyclist here in San Diego and would like to work up
to randonneuring. I'm currently looking at new bikes/frames and was
wondering if anyone rides a Rivendell Bleriot? According to the Riv
website, this is what the bike is make for. I currently ride a Giant
TCX cyclocross bike and think I'm looking for something a bit more
relaxed and actually fits, the tt on the TCX feels way long!
Thanks,
Chris in Sabre Springs

[Mike Berry]

Chris,

 

    The Bleriot is a fine machine, however you need to know, it is designed

 for 650B wheels. 650B wheels are larger than 26 inch wheels and not quite 

as large as 700cc wheels. It typically uses tires wider than the typical 23-25mm 

used on road bikes.  I've typicall seen riders using tires in the 35-40mm range.

     The availability of the wheels and tires is not a problem as long as you are

satisfied with obtaining them online from one of the many vendors that carry them. (Rivendell,

Jan Heine, Velo Orange, etc.) I don't know of any local bike shops that

carry the tires, but I could be wrong.

    I know several riders who own 650B bikes and they love them. They are

comfortable on the road and have wide enough tires that you can ride

the "rough stuff" like dirt and fire roads with ease. 

    As long as you are not consumed with the lighter is better mantra (many randonneurs

prefer comfort and utility over lightweight) this bike or any 650B would make a great

choice for randonneuring.

   See you on the road, and don't hesitate to post questions concerning randonneuring to this 

group. It's a great bunch of folks who are more than willing to help out with advice.

Mike Berry

San Diego Regional Brevet Administrator

[Chris]

Thanks Mike,
I don't think I'm too worried about the 650B, I've actually read you
can run 650C that they run tri bikes and they make thoes up to 28mm I
guess. I have the chance to test ride a Bleriot tommorrow. I was all
concerned with weight for a while, but the more I read I undestand
light weight=harsh ride for the most part. I'm also considering a
Salsa La Raza or a Cruz, I'm liking steel bikes for some reason right
now.
Chris

> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Chris <FourF...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Good Evening,
> > I'm a fairly new cyclist here in San Diego and would like to work up
> > to randonneuring. I'm currently looking at new bikes/frames and was
> > wondering if anyone rides a Rivendell Bleriot? According to the Riv
> > website, this is what the bike is make for. I currently ride a Giant
> > TCX cyclocross bike and think I'm looking for something a bit more
> > relaxed and actually fits, the tt on the TCX feels way long!
> > Thanks,
> > Chris in Sabre Springs
>

> --
> Mike Berry
> Regional Brevet Administrator
> San Diegowww.sandiegorandonneurs.com

[Dan Crain]

I'm not exactly a gram weenie, but I come down on the side of as light as reasonable possible.  That's because I like to ride with others, and whenever the hill tips up, I'm in jeopardy of losing the group I'm with.   It's often said that rather than drop x grams from your bike, you should eat one less cupcake and get the weight off your body.  While it's certainly helpful to drop weight from your body, you can do both.  It will make a huge difference if you can lose 5 pounds of fat and also 5 pounds of unnecessary bike weight.   You can have a reasonably light bike, and still one that includes the gear you need for longer treks.  Litespeed used to make a tourer called Blue Ridge with rear eyelets for racks.  You should be able to find one on ebay.  Listen to what everyone says, then make up you mind what you think will work for you.  Good luck, and hope to see you on the road. --- On Thu, 7/31/08, Chris <Four...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Thomas Reynolds]

> It's often said that rather than drop x grams from your bike, you should eat
> one less cupcake and get the weight off your body.

I pointed this out to someone once and they responded "Your bike won't
gain the weight back" :)

Tom
thomas.t...@gmail.com

[steve...@san.rr.com]

Chris,

I'm a newer cyclist myself, just over two years now, so I'll pitch in my two cents worth.

From what I have heard from other cyclists and most LBS, fit is more important than just about anything else, and especially true the longer the ride. If the bike is not comfortable, your going to want to get off it, and be pretty miserable when the 100 mile mark is only half the ride.

I'm doing my first brevet in a couple of weeks, so I'd like to know what the veterans think, but I would guess that weight does matter, since they are self supported you are packing some extra gear and already adding some weight to the bike.

Many companies now make some kind of "plush road" where they keep the weight down, but add ride dampening features to offset the harshness.

I see you live in Sabre Springs. May I suggest asking the guys a Black Mountain Bikes what they think? They have been great to me since I got involved in cycling.
(I don't work there, they don't pay me).

Good luck with whatever you decide.

-Steve

[mest...@gmail.com]

Chris,

The $0.02 that I've learned over the past year of some fairly serious
randonneuring (not in any order of priority, rather a steam of
consciousness kind of thought train) is...

1) Wheel weight seems to matter. I can put a set of wheels on my bike
with heavy rubber (500 gram tires with heavy tubes), and I feel like
I'm pedalling underwater compared to light tires/tubes. I learned this
when I was a teenager and put my racing wheels (sewups) on a clunker
Schwinn Continental and found it rode pretty darn good (except for the
shifting and braking). Yet I still find myself going back and forth
between light skinny tires and heavier wide tires. I love the
responsiveness of the light setup, and love the comfort of the heavier
setup. A very personal choice. But my heavy setup leans towards the
lightest wide tire/tube combo I can find (300 gm tires and 28-25mm
tubes).

2) Light weight is good, but not at the expense of durability or the
ability to repair in the middle of nowhere. A set of super lightweight
wheels are great until you break a spoke and it taco's so much it
can't be ridden.

3) Yes, fit is everything. When you talk randonneuring, don't think
miles but rather think hours. How many hours can you spend in your
riding position? A good rando ride can be 24 hours + . Very few people
ever spend that much time doing anything for that long, much less
riding their bike. I've found preparing to ride that long is almost as
much about training your body to be in your riding position for that
long as it is about developing your strength. So that position better
be comfortable, or you better have a very young forgiving body. Have
you ever taken a really long international airplane flight? How does
your riding position compare to sitting in an airplane seat?

3a) Re-reading this post, I have to insert something about "points of
contact." I've read it many places before, and it's a lesson every
randonneur learns - probably the "hard" way. Whatever part of your
body contacts the bike, you better pay very close attention to. Of
course, everyone always thinks of the seat. And with good reason. But
it's your hands, feet, and butt. I'm just learning thie randonneuring
game, but I find it curious that after riding for 300+ miles my
biggest issue is my wrists. And this is on a steel frame, 28mm tires,
and double tape on the bars. Not my legs, not my butt (thank you
Brooks!!!!!), not my back. Not to say any of those body parts were
happy, but it was my wrists that hurt the most. So I still have some
work to do on my bike setup. But like I said, it's about those "points
of contact."

4) Most bikes today are set up for racing. Just look at the position
of the seat compared to the bars. Almost all rando's have their bars
and seats at almost the same height. Just try to find a bike with that
setup today. Why do we go that way - comfort for the long haul. Or
maybe because we're all old farts whose bodies just don't bend so well
anymore.

5) Frame material can matter. I ride a steel frame now, and love it.
It's certainly not the lightest you can have, but it is flexible and
absorbs road bumps really well. But what I really like about it is
what is called "planing", where the bike flexes in harmony with your
pedal stroke. I can best describe it as a flywheel effect. The bike
wants to keep going forward, and seems to pull you along with it. It's
a very subjective thing to describe (like describing how a banana
tastes), but once you experience it you'll know it. The bike is
working with you, not against you. I'm not arguing for a steel frame
here, but for any frame that works with you.

6) Serious randonneuring means riding your bike in any conditions.
That means rain, and that sometimes means non-paved roads. So consider
whether your bike will allow you to mount fenders. Heaven forbid, but
if you've ever ridden in the rain for a long time you'll kiss them.
And non-paved roads don't usually work so well with really light
narrow tires. So can you mount wide tires? Having said that, the
roughest roads I've ever ridden were paved. It was at the end of a 200
mile ride and the road was like riding on a washerboard. Think of
holding a jackhammer after spending 18 hours with your upper body
resting on your wrists. For a good 10 miles...

7) And finally, I learned from a very good friend that you can't buy
your way to good randonneuring. Randonneuring rides are hard. There
are no bikes you can buy that will make it easy. A good rider on a 28
lb bike that fits them well can kick the butt of most anyone on the
best bike you can buy. So think about what you want to do with your
bike, and get one that works with you and not against you.

Just a few "stream of consciousness" thoughts about bikes and fit.
None of this touches on the questions of training, pacing, hydration,
or fueling. All worthy of books themselves...

The sad part is that we can't test drive bikes on a good long ride to
see if they'll really work well for us.

John Mestemacher

[ddr...@gmail.com]

FWIW -- I'm in both Dan Crain's and John Mestemacher's
camps. But my initial thought is that the cyclocross bike
might work for you with some adjustments.

Personally I keep coming back to my carbon Trek even though
I have a stable of other bikes from Ti racer to steel
touring to choose from. Of course, my body position with my
current Trek setup looks a little strange compared with the
way Lance had his bike set up in 2002! A 3" stem steerer
extension and very short 80mm stem solved the reach problem
for me, but the steering does now act at bit quickly -- it
might not be acceptable to everyone. But the the bike planes
well over a wide range and the carbon, though stiff where it
needs to be, absorbs road buzz better than anything else
I've ridden. With its light weight and wheels, it keeps
winning out. The only problems are with figuring out ways
to mount gear on a carbon frame, and the lack of fenders for
wet weather and no possibility of mounting them.

Ironically, my second choice is my steel Bianchi Eros light
tourer -- light only in concept since it weighs nearly 25
lbs stripped! But its got all the necessary eyelets and
brazeons, with fenders mounted for wet weather. Also, 25mm
instead of 23mm tires. Its a very smooth ride, though not
quite as good and different from the Trek. A minor oddity
is that it goes on to a plane all of a sudden and takes just
a bit of effort to keep it there -- it sort of surprizes you
and you say to yourself-- oh yeh -- when it happens.
Although its far from being a Moots, its a lot like many of
the bikes I've seen from Colorado and the Northwest where
they don't have the luxury of being able to count on good
weather.

As to tires, I've been going with less pressure -- just
enough (what ever that could possibly be) to avoid pinch
flats -- right now about 83# front /95# rear for my 170#.
According to Jan Heine's studies, this usually reduces
rolling resistance on all but the smoothest surfaces. I'm
also toying with the idea, next time I change rubber, of
putting 25mm tires on the Trek to see if that will smooth it
out even more, and going to 28mm on the Bianchi and others
with sufficient clearance.

For me, on a brevet everything hurts at one point or
another -- usually its my butt first at somewhere between 70
and 100 miles. But I just keep going, and 7-8 miles later
it'll be something else. Some might say that I need to work
some more on fit, but I've done a lot of that and now think
that it is an indication that fit is right but the static
position that we're locked into on long rides takes a toll
everywhere. As a result, I make it a point to shift my hand
positions almost constantly and to stand up a lot, and maybe
even stretch a bit while rolling along.

Dion Dyer

[ddr...@gmail.com]

During the last week they've started construction work on Hwy 67 between the top of the Mt. Woodson grade and Ramona itself.  Apparently, they're planning to repave that whole stretch.  A lot of our permanent routes go that way, so take note.

 

It looks like they'll mostly be working at night, as I found out the hard way.   Discovering this was one of those those "Won't be doing that again" adventures.

 

I had been very busy at work during July with a couple of difficult problems during the last week.  On the way home at about 7:30 pm Thursday night, I suddenly realized that it was July 31, and I had not yet gotten a 200k permanent in for R-12.  Darn!  I didn't get R-12 last year only because of getting knocked down by another rider at PBP.  My wife is out of town, so after having dinner, I got a bike down and loaded it with gear so I could to do my Ramona-Rainbow-Coast permanent (242km/150mi).  Started out at 11:00pm!  (Remember, its that starting time that counts; not the day that you finish.)

 

Just before the top of Scripps Poway Pkwy, it started getting foggy.  Not dense, just wispy, so I kept going.  Going up to the Mt. Woodson summit, it became more like a veiled mist.  The climbing went more quickly than I expected -- nothing like cool temperatures to keep the internal engine from overheating.  Thankfully, there was very little traffic -- probably no more than 10 cars passed me the whole way up to Mt. Woodson from the bottom of Scripps Poway.

 

I didn't realize that I was near the top, but the mist filled sky ahead was being lit up by a yellow glow that blinked on and off.  At the top, two Highway Patrol cars were stopped with lights flashing while construction workers put up baracades for the anticipated construction.  As I rode on, it suddenly became as thick as proverbial pea soup. 

 

No descent at over 25 mph this time.  I got on the brakes and began to look for the bike lane limit line.  Guess what?  They had already ground it up!  The rest of the way to Ramona was an exercise in constant vigilence -- at least that was the main objective of my efforts -- the mist on my glasses made it impossible to see anything more than I front tire on the road and taking my glasses off really didn't improve my visibility very much! 

 

Basically the 7 miles into Ramona was done by braille -- feeling and watching for the grinder marks on the pavement, and slowing down quickly whenever I lost the marks or felt debris under the tires.  Fortunately at near 2:00 am in the morning, the traffic remained light, consisting almost entirely of the Highway Patrol and a few construction trucks.  I stopped at Denny's for a short stack and bathroom break. I was the only customer, and it was warm inside. It was a welcome respite since I was also dripping wet from the fog and mist, somewhat reminiscent of PBP last year.

 

After going on to the the 7-Eleven control and getting a receipt, I then had to negotiate my way back up Hwy 67 to the Highland Valley Road turnoff.  Braille again. 

 

The fog along Highland Valley Road was realitively light.  I breathed a sigh of relief,  prematurely thinking that the descent would be a snap. A mile latter in patchy fog, I rode right past the turnoff in the fields before the school.  After turning around and getting back on track, I discovered that every valley and hollow was dense with fog.  So during the rolling and twisting descent, I was on the brakes constantly, only to find that I had no momentum left for all of those short 12%-18% rises!  The fog finally cleared near the bottom of the final grade down to Lake Hodges.

 

Sunrise finally arrived North of Campaigne Village, and the rest of the permanent was essentially unremarkable.  Got a receipt as the market was opening in Rainbow -- breakfast and a big cup of coffee in Bonsal. Fueled by caffine, the ride along the river and coast back to Mission Bay went pretty quickly.  For obvious reasons, my overall time was, as they say, nothing to write home about.

 

Well, that's how I found out about the construction on Hwy 67.  Please don't tell my wife.  I won't be doing it again!  

 

Dion Dyer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[markw]

Have you considered a performance recumbent along the lines of a
Bacchetta Corsa or similar? They're light, comfortable and are stupid
fast with the right engine. (isn't any bike??) :)
John Schlitter, Jim Verheul, Jim Kern and other B-team riders have been
turning in impressive results and setting overall course records in the
Ultra world with them. I can gurantee after 10 or 12 hours, you'll be
way more comfortable on one than _ANY_ road bike. The downside is
there's no local dealer for them, so you'd have to travel to LA for a
new one. Ron and I both purchased our Corsa's from Bent Up Cycles in
Encino, Dana who runs the shop is a randonneur, and a distance racer.

http://www.bentupcycles.com

http://www.bacchettabikes.com

If you're not too keen on a bent yet, and are budget minded, look at the
Surly LHT and Cross Check. Great bikes that are a good bang for the buck.

Mark