The Home Depot in Santa Cruz County
Chuck Anderson
Home Depot in Santa Cruz County.
And how many have objections.
I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who has thoughts to share.
I live in Rio del Mar, am a member of the Green Party, work for The Home
Depot as a garden department manager and am interested in providing factual
information.
Chuck, The Garden Guy
Tim May
Count me as a eager customer of a Home Depot in Capitola or Soquel. (Or,
perhaps better for them and for me, near Green Valley and Main in
Watsonville.)
However, I hope the Green/Leftist/Turtle Costume People expend their
energy trying to stop Home Depot from invading our county. Keeping them
out makes things better for Orchard Supply, er, I mean "Sears." And it
causes us to drive to the Home Depot over in Salinas, thus using up oil
and helping to further pollute. Best of all, it keeps the Greenies
occupied.
All for naught. You see, in America it is not constitutionally permissable
to pass laws favoring one particular business over another. Zoning laws
must be blind to specific owners. If the square footage of a building is
within general zoning laws, it matters not whether the occupant is Home
Depot or Macy's or Borders or Tower Records.
--Tim May
--
They pulled the pin...now we're all just waiting
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
Geoff Miller
"Chuck Anderson" <gard...@jps.net> writes:
> I want to find out how many Santa Cruzans would are interested
> in having a Home Depot in Santa Cruz County.
I'd love to have a Home Despot in Santa Cruz County. The closest
one is in Campbell, and it's a PITA to drive all the way over
there. Especially this time of year, when Bear Creek Road is
brought to its knees by all the white-knuckers from the Valley
who are going to and from the Christmas tree farms.
I think an ideal location for a Home Depot would be in the area
near Costco; it'd be close to a lot of potential customers, in
an area that's already industrial, and would probably have a
tolerable impact on local traffic congestion. I suppose an
obvious alternative location would be east of Hwy. 1 in the
41st Avenue area, but that area is choked with traffic on
weekends as it is.
> And how many have objections.
Fuck 'em. If they don't like Home Depot, they don't have to
shop there. Send in the next case.
> I live in Rio del Mar, am a member of the Green Party, work
> for The Home Depot as a garden department manager and am
> interested in providing factual information.
Of what relevance is your place of residence, or particularly
your party affiliation?
Geoff
--
"It takes a special kind of retard to be offended so easily."
-- Adam Thrasher
Steve Premo
wrote:
>I want to find out how many Santa Cruzans would are interested in having a
>Home Depot in Santa Cruz County.
I am. When I need, say, a new bathroom sink, I'd like more choices
than are now available.
>And how many have objections.
Well, I'd object to building one on a vacant lot on Pacific, but I'm
not concerned about preserving the "character" of 41st Avenue. It has
no character to preserve. And traffic problems should be addressed
and mitigated.
Steve Premo -- Santa Cruz, California
"Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum."
(A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants.)
http://www2.cruzio.com/~premo/steve.html
melp...@cruzio.com
41st/Soquel Drive location or out in Watsonville, it would still be
more convenient than driving over the hill or to Salinas, and I've
done both.
I shop at San Lorenzo for gardening stuff (and will probably continue
to because the quality is stellar) and go there for the odd hardware
piece, but often can't find a good selection for other things (light
fixtures, for example).
It's ironic that some of the people who are against widening Highway 1
are also against the Home Depot coming to the mid-county, citing
traffic concerns. Well, gee, maybe if Highway 1 was widened to 3 or 4
lanes in both directions, that entire bottleneck between Santa Cruz
and Capitola might be eliminated.
Whether Highway 1 is widened or not, growth will occur in south
county. Also, as long as Santa Cruz spooks away decent merchants,
people will drive to Capitola (or to Monterey or over the hill as
necessary).
--Mel
melp...@cruzio.com
John R Pierce
>I shop at San Lorenzo for gardening stuff (and will probably continue
>to because the quality is stellar) and go there for the odd hardware
>piece, but often can't find a good selection for other things (light
>fixtures, for example).
I suspect they go light on the electrics because Riverside Lighting
has such a broad selection.
-jrp
--
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea --
massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and
a source of mind- boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."
(Gene Spafford)
Tim May
(Geoff Miller) wrote:
> Interesting experience wirh your neighbor that you related.
> I wonder why the guy was so goddamed territorial that he
> couldn't tolerate your simply passing by several times a
> day on your way in and out? My property is a flag lot,
> as you know. According to the papers I got when I bought
> the place, I have a legal right of way on my neighbors'
> driveway in perpetuity. Of course, it doesn't hurt that
> I get along so well with them in the bargain...
Those who live on flag lots should never feel that their right to pass is
somehow dependent on keeping the neighbor happy. As you say, your right to
pass is granted in perpetuity (unless, I suppose, you both agreed upon a
new condition and had it properly written the papers).
The flag lot was either created that way by the original subdivider, or by
the property owner who sold off some of his land and guaranteed access to
the flag piece.
My property is set up this way...the only way in from the main road is
through my neigbor's property, albeit at the edge of his property.
He's never threatened to block my way. Nor could he, legally or
practically. An easement means he can't.
I don't know what Glen's situation was or is. Something fishy about it
from all accounts...a lean-to built out of plywood and tarpaper by a guy
during one long weekend, no electricity, no plumbing...no wonder his
neighbor was/is edgy about Glen and his brood rolling through his
property.
Tim May
> On Wed, 08 Dec 1999 18:51:26 -0800, "Chuck Anderson"
> <gard...@jps.net> wrote:
>
> >I want to find out how many Santa Cruzans would are interested in having a
> >Home Depot in Santa Cruz County.
>
> I'd love to be able to shop at a local Home Depot.
>
> >And how many have objections.
>
> Call Keith Sugar. I'm sure he has a list.
>
Well, Sugar is Santa Cruz _City_, so his views on County developments
don't count for much.
As a lawyer, though, he may be centrally involved in suing Home Depot on
some flimsy pretext to hassle it or to extract some shakedown money.
But the opponents will have an easy time working "Home Depot" into their
tired old chant,
"Hey Ho, Hi Ho, Home Depot has got to go!"
Maybe they'll dress as endangered sea turtles and smash all of the windows
on Pacific Avenue.
Chewy
when you hold it up against a Home Depot. Then all we need is a Target
and SC wil be set.
Tim May wrote:
Glen Appleby
(Geoff Miller) wrote:
>I'd love to have a Home Despot in Santa Cruz County. The closest
>one is in Campbell, and it's a PITA to drive all the way over
>there. Especially this time of year, when Bear Creek Road is
>brought to its knees by all the white-knuckers from the Valley
>who are going to and from the Christmas tree farms.
Oh, yeah. I forgot to mention that in your Welcome To The SLV.
Well, it's easy for me to do. I try to overlook xmas ... try to
forget it, more accurately. Apparently I have been more
successful that has been helpful to others.
BTW, I have noticed that you seem really ticked off at the
various drivers on the roads that you travel. (I know -- how
could I miss it?) Have you considered a helicopter?
I ask that with some seriousness.
When we first moved up here, we had the Neighbor From Hell (tm)
who was really pissed that we had to drive past his house to get
in and out of our place.
First he tried gating off the road (not even his road or on his
property). When we stopped that, he tried to buy us alternative
methods to get in and out. One thing that he suggested was
buying us a helicopter so that we didn't have to use the road.
Yeah, it probibly would have been an old WWII surplus that had
been scrapped out 30 years ago.
--
Do not underestimate your abilities. That is your boss's job.
It is your job to find ways around your boss's roadblocks.
______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby gl...@armory.com <http://www.armory.com/~glena/>
Geoff Miller
gl...@ihwy.com (Glen Appleby) writes:
> BTW, I have noticed that you seem really ticked off at
> the various drivers on the roads that you travel.
That comes and goes. There are fairly lengthy periods
when everything's just ducky, and then without warning
there'll be a stretch of time when there seems to be a
plodding, road-blocking fuckhead around every turn. And
when that happens I have to vent. What gets me is that
so much of driving boils down to simple courtesy and
common sense.. It's exasperating as hell to see how
stubborn and out-and-out dumb some of the people I share
the roads with can be.
There's also the possibility, however slight, that one
of the miscreants might be a lurker here and, reading
my ravings, either achieve some low form of _satori_ or
else decide, at the very least, that he's needlessly
endangering his own safety by pissing people off to that
degree. Sometimes people learn to modify their behavior
not because they understand why it irritates people, but
by resigning themselves to the mere fact that it *does.*
> Have you considered a helicopter?
I would if it were feasible. I'd prefer a Russian Mi-24 Hind
gunship that could do double duty taking out roadhogs on 9
as a public service. I could paint a name like "Afghanistan
Annie" on the nose. A quick burst of 23mm would work wonders
for loosening up the commute traffic.
Interesting experience wirh your neighbor that you related.
I wonder why the guy was so goddamed territorial that he
couldn't tolerate your simply passing by several times a
day on your way in and out? My property is a flag lot,
as you know. According to the papers I got when I bought
the place, I have a legal right of way on my neighbors'
driveway in perpetuity. Of course, it doesn't hurt that
I get along so well with them in the bargain...
Geoff
geoffw@cruzļo.com
<gard...@jps.net> wrote:
>I want to find out how many Santa Cruzans would are interested in having a
>Home Depot in Santa Cruz County.
I'd love to be able to shop at a local Home Depot.
>And how many have objections.
Call Keith Sugar. I'm sure he has a list.
--Geoffrey Wells
-- geo...@cruzio.com
melp...@cruzio.com
wrote:
>melp...@cruzio.com wrote:
>>I shop at San Lorenzo for gardening stuff (and will probably continue
>>to because the quality is stellar) and go there for the odd hardware
>>piece, but often can't find a good selection for other things (light
>>fixtures, for example).
>
>I suspect they go light on the electrics because Riverside Lighting
>has such a broad selection.
Now that you mention it...
My spouse just installed a ceiling light fixture a few months ago,
purchased at Riverside Lighting. It broke a couple of days ago.
Apparently the glass got too hot or was defective or something. (The
bulbs used were according to instructions). I'm really thankful
nobody was in the room when it broke, because pieces of glass went
everywhere. I don't think we still have the receipt but we will be
returning the fixture for another one, and I sure hope that we don't
get an argument about it. I don't recall how much it cost, as I
didn't pay for it, my spouse did, but he told me, and it was not a
bargain fixture.
The ceiling light fixture we have from Home Depot has behaved itself
quite well for almost 4 years.
--Mel
melp...@cruzio.com
Glen Appleby
(Geoff Miller) wrote:
>I would if it were feasible. I'd prefer a Russian Mi-24 Hind
>gunship that could do double duty taking out roadhogs on 9
>as a public service. I could paint a name like "Afghanistan
>Annie" on the nose. A quick burst of 23mm would work wonders
>for loosening up the commute traffic.
You had better be quite accurate; otherwise you'll be generating
even more potholes in the road and that would piss off even more
drivers.
I have, on occasion, had the fantasy (no -- this one includes
*no* babes) of encountering one of the brain-dead drivers and
using my imaginary bazooka to move them off of the roadway.
Very satisfying.
Aw, come on! Most of my best experiences in life have been
fantasy.
>Interesting experience wirh your neighbor that you related.
>I wonder why the guy was so goddamed territorial that he
>couldn't tolerate your simply passing by several times a
>day on your way in and out?
His story: He bought his place 2 weeks before we bought ours (but
I had been familiar with this area for about 10 years before we
bought, having worked with about half of our neighbors in the mid
70s). His house has some picture windows looking right out onto
the road and his house is only about 20 feet from the road (I am
continually amazed at people building *right* on the roads, then,
when the road becomes used, complain about the traffic going by
their house). He thought that he was buying a mountain-top
retreat.
>My property is a flag lot,
>as you know. According to the papers I got when I bought
>the place, I have a legal right of way on my neighbors'
>driveway in perpetuity. Of course, it doesn't hurt that
>I get along so well with them in the bargain...
Well, the problem with any ROW is that, unless everybody agrees
to is, some can try to deny it.
We always had a ROW on our place as well. It was because of the
road association (the documents of that association were attached
to the deed) stating that the roads were maintained to allow
ingress and egress (damned lawyers!) to all property owners.
Unfortunately, that wasn't exact enough for the title company, so
we ended up paying $6k to prove it to our neighbor in court.
The amazing thing was that he spent $33k to try to prove that we
were wrong.
Glen (little victories) Appleby
Tim May
wrote:
>
> Well, the problem with any ROW is that, unless everybody agrees
> to is, some can try to deny it.
Easements and rights of way are generally written into the property
contracts. If they are, the "some can try to deny it" part almost always
fails, quickly.
If they are not, all hell breaks loose. Sounds like you bought property
without careful stipulation of easements and other rights.
>
> We always had a ROW on our place as well. It was because of the
> road association (the documents of that association were attached
> to the deed) stating that the roads were maintained to allow
> ingress and egress (damned lawyers!) to all property owners.
>
> Unfortunately, that wasn't exact enough for the title company, so
> we ended up paying $6k to prove it to our neighbor in court.
>
> The amazing thing was that he spent $33k to try to prove that we
> were wrong.
>
> Glen (little victories) Appleby
Your original title company was, then, derelict in not spotting this
defect in the property contract/title documents.
John R Pierce
>yes, put a home depot right smack in the middle of SC. Osh is nothing
>when you hold it up against a Home Depot. Then all we need is a Target
>and SC wil be set.
The Target is in Watsonville. Sugar already tried to sue them.
Glen Appleby
scruz.general,tc...@got.net (Tim May) wrote:
>In article <385106bc...@news.ihwy.com>, gl...@ihwy.com (Glen Appleby)
>wrote:
>>
>> Well, the problem with any ROW is that, unless everybody agrees
>> to is, some can try to deny it.
>
>Easements and rights of way are generally written into the property
>contracts. If they are, the "some can try to deny it" part almost always
>fails, quickly.
However, the process of supporting one's ROW is not automatic. I
seriously doubt that a cop would come out here, go over all of
the paperwork from both parties and make a legal decision.
>If they are not, all hell breaks loose. Sounds like you bought property
>without careful stipulation of easements and other rights.
As is not unusual on rural properties. "Careful stipulation" is
relative.
>> We always had a ROW on our place as well. It was because of the
>> road association (the documents of that association were attached
>> to the deed) stating that the roads were maintained to allow
>> ingress and egress (damned lawyers!) to all property owners.
>>
>> Unfortunately, that wasn't exact enough for the title company, so
>> we ended up paying $6k to prove it to our neighbor in court.
>>
>> The amazing thing was that he spent $33k to try to prove that we
>> were wrong.
>>
>> Glen (little victories) Appleby
>
>Your original title company was, then, derelict in not spotting this
>defect in the property contract/title documents.
They pointed out that there was no specifically deeded ROW; but I
checked and found that the road association agreement (as I said,
associated and recorded with each deed) should be adequate.
What I found was, in the end, correct.
Steve Premo
tc...@got.net (Tim May) wrote:
>In article <38506148...@cnews.newsguy.com>, geoffw@cruzļo.com wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 08 Dec 1999 18:51:26 -0800, "Chuck Anderson"
>> <gard...@jps.net> wrote:
>>
>> >I want to find out how many Santa Cruzans would are interested in having a
>> >Home Depot in Santa Cruz County.
>>
>> I'd love to be able to shop at a local Home Depot.
>>
>> >And how many have objections.
>>
>> Call Keith Sugar. I'm sure he has a list.
>>
>Well, Sugar is Santa Cruz _City_, so his views on County developments
>don't count for much.
Well, they count for as much as your views on allowing Borders in
downtown Santa Cruz.
Geoff Miller
tc...@got.net (Tim May) writes:
> Those who live on flag lots should never feel that their
> right to pass is somehow dependent on keeping the neighbor
> happy.
That's quite true, and I didn't mean to imply differently.
What I was saying was that getting along so well with my
neighbors makes problems even less of a possibility than
they'd otherwise be.
Oh, and "easement" was the word I was grasping for. I
think I might be showing the initial signs of Sometimer's
disease.
Tim May
> In <tcmay-09129...@dyn-207-111-241-200.sjc.got.net>,
> tc...@got.net (Tim May) wrote:
> >Well, Sugar is Santa Cruz _City_, so his views on County developments
> >don't count for much.
>
> Well, they count for as much as your views on allowing Borders in
> downtown Santa Cruz.
>
Legalistic snidery aside, the issue is not what our _personal_ views are.
No wonder you became a kind of lawyer.
Glen Appleby
scruz.general,tc...@got.net (Tim May) wrote:
>In article <5mg25s8goptklm251...@4ax.com>, pr...@cruzio.com wrote:
>
>> Well, they count for as much as your views on allowing Borders in
>> downtown Santa Cruz.
>
>Legalistic snidery aside, the issue is not what our _personal_ views are.
>
>No wonder you became a kind of lawyer.
<shaking my head in amazement>
This should be a fair warning as to what happens when people mix
alcohol and perscription medicines.
Tim May
> On Thu, 09 Dec 1999 19:37:14 -0800, Chewy <bba...@cats.ucsc.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >yes, put a home depot right smack in the middle of SC. Osh is nothing
> >when you hold it up against a Home Depot. Then all we need is a Target
> >and SC wil be set.
>
> Not quite. We still don't have a Walmart.
>
Wal-Marts are simply too small to be interesting.
I favor the proposal to put a Sam's Club in at Lighthouse Field.
Mike Parrish
> In article <3851a177...@cnews.newsguy.com>, geoffw@cruzďo.com wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 09 Dec 1999 19:37:14 -0800, Chewy <bba...@cats.ucsc.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >yes, put a home depot right smack in the middle of SC. Osh is nothing
> > >when you hold it up against a Home Depot. Then all we need is a Target
> > >and SC wil be set.
> >
> > Not quite. We still don't have a Walmart.
> >
>
> Wal-Marts are simply too small to be interesting.
>
> I favor the proposal to put a Sam's Club in at Lighthouse Field.
Beh.
Sams' Club would be fine, but they should put it in near Costco.
Lighthouse field is really too nice as it is to use for this.
Mike
Mike Parrish
> On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:42:38 -0800, in
> scruz.general,tc...@got.net (Tim May) wrote:
>
> >In article <5mg25s8goptklm251...@4ax.com>, pr...@cruzio.com wrote:
> >
> >> Well, they count for as much as your views on allowing Borders in
> >> downtown Santa Cruz.
> >
> >Legalistic snidery aside, the issue is not what our _personal_ views are.
> >
> >No wonder you became a kind of lawyer.
>
> <shaking my head in amazement>
>
> This should be a fair warning as to what happens when people mix
> alcohol and perscription medicines.
with guns....
Mike
Tim May
> Tim May wrote:
> >
> > Wal-Marts are simply too small to be interesting.
> >
> > I favor the proposal to put a Sam's Club in at Lighthouse Field.
>
> Beh.
> Sams' Club would be fine, but they should put it in near Costco.
> Lighthouse field is really too nice as it is to use for this.
>
Do you know that the word "gullible" is not in any modern dictionary?
Tim May
(Geoff Miller) wrote:
> tc...@got.net (Tim May) writes:
>
> > Wal-Marts are simply too small to be interesting.
>
>
> Two stores that absolutely give me the heebie-jeebies are
> Wal-Mart and Target. Part of it is the crowds, and part
> is the feeling of being immersed in such an alien socio-
> economic milieu. I think of those places as The Barefoot
> And Pregnant Stores. K-mart is another one, now that I
> think about it.
>
> I was in the Cupertino Target store earlier this week, and
> damn near three-quarters of the clientele consisted of young
> Hispanic women with babies on their hips. There was even a
> passel of 'tards at the register next to mine ("UNNNNGH!").
> I had an almost irresistable urge to bolt from the store,
> jump into my car, and drive straight to the nearest Nordstrom
> in order to settle my equanimity and realign my chakras.
> Gack!
Sure, Target and Wal-Mart have a target market, so to speak, of people
buying plastic trashcans, vinyl veneer entertainment units, and so on.
Poor people have to shop somewhere. Likewise, Markley's has a target
market of people buying rifles and shotguns. No doubt many Wal-Mart
shoppers would be put off by the clientele and products at Markleys. And
so on. Those who are interested in the products shop at the stores.
As for creepiness, there's a chain called "Bed, Bath, and Beyond" which is
even worse than Target. Slightly more expensive stuff, but the _entire_
store is devoted to towells, bath curtains, soap dishes, and perfumed
candles.
In conclude one important thing: men have no business shopping in women's
stores, and vice versa. No doubt our mothers shopped in the 1950s and 60s
(or 70s, for a few of the youngest here) versions of Target. And they were
just as tacky, if not more tacky, back then.
Stores like "Jitney Jungle," for example.
geoffw@cruzļo.com
wrote:
>yes, put a home depot right smack in the middle of SC. Osh is nothing
>when you hold it up against a Home Depot. Then all we need is a Target
>and SC wil be set.
Not quite. We still don't have a Walmart.
--Geoffrey Wells
-- geo...@cruzio.com
Geoff Miller
tc...@got.net (Tim May) writes:
> Wal-Marts are simply too small to be interesting.
Two stores that absolutely give me the heebie-jeebies are
Wal-Mart and Target. Part of it is the crowds, and part
is the feeling of being immersed in such an alien socio-
economic milieu. I think of those places as The Barefoot
And Pregnant Stores. K-mart is another one, now that I
think about it.
I was in the Cupertino Target store earlier this week, and
damn near three-quarters of the clientele consisted of young
Hispanic women with babies on their hips. There was even a
passel of 'tards at the register next to mine ("UNNNNGH!").
I had an almost irresistable urge to bolt from the store,
jump into my car, and drive straight to the nearest Nordstrom
in order to settle my equanimity and realign my chakras.
Gack!
Say, you know the first words of English that a typical
Mexican-American baby learns, don't you? "Attention K-Mart
shoppers!"
swe...@scruznet.com
> Tim May wrote:
>> In article <3851a177...@cnews.newsguy.com>, geoffw@cruzďo.com wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, 09 Dec 1999 19:37:14 -0800, Chewy <bba...@cats.ucsc.edu>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >yes, put a home depot right smack in the middle of SC. Osh is nothing
>> > >when you hold it up against a Home Depot. Then all we need is a Target
>> > >and SC wil be set.
>> >
>> > Not quite. We still don't have a Walmart.
>> >
>>
>> Wal-Marts are simply too small to be interesting.
>>
>> I favor the proposal to put a Sam's Club in at Lighthouse Field.
> Beh.
> Sams' Club would be fine, but they should put it in near Costco.
> Lighthouse field is really too nice as it is to use for this.
It's a place for dogs to shit by day, and at night, its a place
for all sorts of Weird Things. A friend and I rode out
bikes through there one morning. Found a piece of Kelbassa
wrapped around a Trojan sitting on the path. All the
dogs were sniffing it as they went by. There were other incidents,
too..
-sw
Mike Parrish
> In article <3851D465...@postoffice.pacbell.net>, spl...@pacbell.net wrote:
>
> > Tim May wrote:
> > >
> > > Wal-Marts are simply too small to be interesting.
> > >
> > > I favor the proposal to put a Sam's Club in at Lighthouse Field.
> >
> > Beh.
> > Sams' Club would be fine, but they should put it in near Costco.
> > Lighthouse field is really too nice as it is to use for this.
> >
>
> Do you know that the word "gullible" is not in any modern dictionary?
Tim,
Knowing you slightly, I can never be sure what you'll propose as a serious position.
I know, I know, I need to be sent to the showers for disagreeing with you... Save
your breath.
Mike
Mike Parrish
> Mike Parrish <spl...@postoffice.pacbell.net> wrote:
> > Tim May wrote:
>
> >> In article <3851a177...@cnews.newsguy.com>, geoffw@cruzďo.com wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Thu, 09 Dec 1999 19:37:14 -0800, Chewy <bba...@cats.ucsc.edu>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >yes, put a home depot right smack in the middle of SC. Osh is nothing
> >> > >when you hold it up against a Home Depot. Then all we need is a Target
> >> > >and SC wil be set.
> >> >
> >> > Not quite. We still don't have a Walmart.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Wal-Marts are simply too small to be interesting.
> >>
> >> I favor the proposal to put a Sam's Club in at Lighthouse Field.
>
> > Beh.
> > Sams' Club would be fine, but they should put it in near Costco.
> > Lighthouse field is really too nice as it is to use for this.
>
> It's a place for dogs to shit by day, and at night, its a place
> for all sorts of Weird Things. A friend and I rode out
> bikes through there one morning. Found a piece of Kelbassa
> wrapped around a Trojan sitting on the path. All the
> dogs were sniffing it as they went by. There were other incidents,
> too..
Damn,
That's nasty. We used to walk our dogs there after running them on Dog Beach
(just to the west). Since we've had kids, our time on the beach has dropped
significantly. And apparently, so has the niceness of the Lighthouse Field.
Sorry to hear about that.
Mike
Christopher Williams
Geoff Miller wrote in message <82ssu8$nmg$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net>...
>Wal-Mart and Target. Part of it is the crowds, and part
>is the feeling of being immersed in such an alien socio-
>economic milieu. I think of those places as The Barefoot
>And Pregnant Stores. K-mart is another one, now that I
>think about it.
Target is in Watsonville, on Main Street. Perhaps you and a pregnant Tim May
could go shopping there?
cw
Christopher Williams
swe...@scruznet.com wrote in message ...
>> Sams' Club would be fine, but they should put it in near Costco.
>> Lighthouse field is really too nice as it is to use for this.
>
>It's a place for dogs to shit by day, and at night, its a place
>for all sorts of Weird Things. A friend and I rode out
>bikes through there one morning. Found a piece of Kelbassa
>wrapped around a Trojan sitting on the path. All the
>dogs were sniffing it as they went by. There were other incidents,
>too..
I used to live about a block away from there, watched all of the dogs and
their stupid owners shit on every square inch as I tried to find a clean
spot to do tai chi.
I think people own dogs because they need to be led around a lot...
As to the OTHER THINGS, it's not as weird as the scene under the pier about
10 years ago...
cw
John R Pierce
>I've noticed that the (larger) camera on top of the West Coast inn
>actively monitors the beach go'ers, including under the pier. Also
>active camera's on the Boardwalk just in front of the Pirate Ship,
>and on top of the Sea Cloud out on the wharf.
The camera on top of the West Coast Inn is the SlugVideo webcam,
http://ipmml.cse.ucsc.edu/SlugVideo/index.shtml (but it appears to be
broken again). When its operating, every 15 minutes, it pans
automatically and takes 3 or 4 different views, including a neat
panorama.
The one on top of the Sea Cloud is the SurfLine Steamers Lane webcam,
http://wavetrak.surfline.com/santacruz.asp
Now, the one at the Boardwalk probably IS a security camera.
>
>There was a ruckus there a few days ago, and I'll be damned. The
>first two camera's swung around to get a closer look. No cops showed
>up though. I couldn't see what the Sea Cloud camera was pointed at;
>too far away. Those three camera's cover quite a bit of Santa Cruz.
>Throw in the one Downtown on top of the Palomar, and you can truly
>feel "safe" in scruz.
Ya know, you really can't see that much from a 1/2 mile off in a video
camera. Even with a very powerful telephoto lens, atmospheric
turbulence tends to mush the picture up.
>There's a second smaller camera on the West Cost Inn that doesn't seem
>to move.
The smaller device up there is a radio antenna for the Reinas network
which feeds the SlugVideo camera back up to UCSC.
>I suspect that was the camera that took the web-cam shots
>as recent as 2 years ago, but I can't find any references to it
>on the web anymore.
see above. was working last week. Down tonite.
>Another web-cam showed horse-shoe(?) curve
>up on 17.
Satellite Curve actually. That one is history. Guy wanted money to
operate it, and couldn't sell subscriptions.
John R Pierce
>I've noticed that the (larger) camera on top of the West Coast inn
>actively monitors the beach go'ers, including under the pier.
oops, I think I moofed the URL in my last posting.
http://ipmml.cse.ucsc.edu/SlugVideo/wch.shtml is the West Coast
Hotel's SlugVideo camera.
-jrp
Geoff Miller
"Christopher Williams" <chr...@sasquatch.com> sniffs:
> Target is in Watsonville, on Main Street. Perhaps you and
> a pregnant Tim May could go shopping there?
Sorry, Mister Anti-Elitist, but while I can't speak for Tim,
Nordstrom and Bloomingdale's at Stanford Shopping Center are
much more in line with the lifestyle to which I've become
accustomed, being a frightfully overpaid Computer Professional.
and all.
Move along, now. There's nothing of interest to you proles here.
swe...@scruznet.com
> swe...@scruznet.com wrote in message ...
>>> Lighthouse field is really too nice as it is to use for this.
>>
>>It's a place for dogs to shit by day, and at night, its a place
>>for all sorts of Weird Things. A friend and I rode out
>>bikes through there one morning. Found a piece of Kelbassa
>>wrapped around a Trojan sitting on the path. All the
>>dogs were sniffing it as they went by. There were other incidents,
>>too..
> I used to live about a block away from there, watched all of the dogs and
> their stupid owners shit on every square inch as I tried to find a clean
> spot to do tai chi.
> I think people own dogs because they need to be led around a lot...
> As to the OTHER THINGS, it's not as weird as the scene under the pier about
> 10 years ago...
C'mon, this is scruz.general. There ain't no holding back here.
I've noticed that the (larger) camera on top of the West Coast inn
actively monitors the beach go'ers, including under the pier. Also
active camera's on the Boardwalk just in front of the Pirate Ship,
and on top of the Sea Cloud out on the wharf.
There was a ruckus there a few days ago, and I'll be damned. The
first two camera's swung around to get a closer look. No cops showed
up though. I couldn't see what the Sea Cloud camera was pointed at;
too far away. Those three camera's cover quite a bit of Santa Cruz.
Throw in the one Downtown on top of the Palomar, and you can truly
feel "safe" in scruz.
Big Brother is Watching, so sicko's, please stay home.
There's a second smaller camera on the West Cost Inn that doesn't seem
to move. I suspect that was the camera that took the web-cam shots
as recent as 2 years ago, but I can't find any references to it
on the web anymore. Another web-cam showed horse-shoe(?) curve
up on 17.
-sw
Geoff Miller
swe...@scruznet.com writes:
> A friend and I rode out bikes through there one morning.
> Found a piece of Kelbassa wrapped around a Trojan sitting
> on the path.
I've always wanted to unroll a Trojan onto a cucumber in the
produce section of a supermarket, then back off to a discreet
vantage point and watch the reactions when it's discovered.
Geoff Miller
"Christopher Williams" <chr...@sasquatch.com> writes:
> As to the OTHER THINGS, it's not as weird as the scene
> under the pier about 10 years ago...
Well, let the other shoe drop. What was going on under
the pier? Were homosexuals SUKKING KOK?
"Lip-smackingly smegmalicious..."
Christopher Williams
Geoff Miller wrote in message <833ild$u3d$1...@nntp6.atl.mindspring.net>...
>
>Well, let the other shoe drop. What was going on under
>the pier? Were homosexuals SUKKING KOK?
Actually, that was the most normal of events, the fun part was finding out
which prominent real estate person or police officer liked to get their
knobs polished on a regular basis. Not as outrageous as the scenes from the
German film, Taxi to the Closet, which ran at the Nick... The unfun part was
the violent acts that changed that scene to one of aggressive fear and
loathing.
>"Lip-smackingly smegmalicious..."
Smuglysmackingsmegma Geoff, a new nickname for you? And you chose it
yourself, we're all so damned proud of you...
cw
roja_loca
http://www.panix.com/~notbored/the-scp.html
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Don Steiny
>The Target is in Watsonville. Sugar already tried to sue them.
He didn't just try, he did it three times and lost each time.
-Don
--
Don Steiny - InfoPoint, Inc. - www.infopoint.com
125 Mission St #3 - Santa Cruz, CA 95060 - 831.471.1671 - fax: 831.471.1670
Reinventing business through the power of the Internet
Don Steiny
>It's ironic that some of the people who are against widening Highway 1
>are also against the Home Depot coming to the mid-county, citing
>traffic concerns. Well, gee, maybe if Highway 1 was widened to 3 or 4
>lanes in both directions, that entire bottleneck between Santa Cruz
>and Capitola might be eliminated.
They would have to consider more than one thing at the same time
and they are not that smart.
Geoff Miller
"Christopher Williams" <chr...@sasquatch.com> writes:
> Smuglysmackingsmegma Geoff, a new nickname for you?
Naah, too hard to type.
Besides, I think "Poodleslayer" has gobs more panache.
Glen Appleby
scruz.general,tc...@got.net (Tim May) continues to try to sell
his sig file:
>Do you know that the word "gullible" is not in any modern dictionary?
>
>
>They pulled the pin...now we're all just waiting
The only *real* Y2K problem involves prepurchased headstones with
"XXXX - 19 " carved in them.
I just heard that this is going to effect something like 250k
people.
Boy! Talk about overplanning for the future!
Glen Appleby
(Geoff Miller) wrote:
>I've always wanted to unroll a Trojan onto a cucumber in the
>produce section of a supermarket, then back off to a discreet
>vantage point and watch the reactions when it's discovered.
Damn, but you give me such great opportunities ... but I lack the
time, right now, to do it justice.
Think "If" instead of "when", then just wander through the
creative mine fields in yer head and you'll come up with much
better that I could, right now.
Glen (pissed at lack of time) Appleby
Glen Appleby
<spl...@postoffice.pacbell.net> wrote:
>Tim May wrote:
<stuff, snipped>
>I know, I know, I need to be sent to the showers for disagreeing with you... Save
>your breath.
I didn't know that "Parrish" is Jewish.
Glen Appleby
scruz.general,tc...@got.net (Tim May) wrote:
>In conclude one important thing: men have no business shopping in women's
>stores
Then how does one pick up babes?
Glen "Tampons'rUs" Appleby
John Reece
landlocked, but why "flag".
John Reece
>> Those who live on flag lots should never feel that their
>> right to pass is somehow dependent on keeping the neighbor
>> happy.
John Reece
Tim May wrote in message ...
>In article <384f...@news1.jps.net>, "Chuck Anderson" <gard...@jps.net>
wrote:
>
>> I want to find out how many Santa Cruzans would are interested in having
a
>> Home Depot in Santa Cruz County.
>>
>> And how many have objections.
I don't object to chain stores that represent an improvement. But then
there's K-Mart and Rite Aid, which are lousy for their niche but still
somehow manage to drive out local businesses.
The main thing I dislike about Home Depot is their sloppy housekeeping.
The aisles are narrow and always blocked with pallets. I feel like I
always have to keep an eye and ear peeled for hurtling forklifts.
If I worked there I'd don't know how I'd feel about having pallets
of cinderblocks stored high above my head in earthquake
country....
Also, the fact that like many big box retail outlets they understaff the
actual point of sale despite having plenty of staff lurking
elsewhere in the store. Long checkout lines in retail are deliberate.
I'm not just paranoid, I studied queuing theory and time-motion
analysis in college.
John Reece
Tim May
<re...@cut-this.cruzio.com> wrote:
Because the access road in looks like a flagpole.
The flag part is the lot behind another house.
--Tim May
--
They pulled the pin...now we're all just waiting
Daniel Veditz
>
> melp...@cruzio.com writes:
>
> >It's ironic that some of the people who are against widening Highway 1
> >are also against the Home Depot coming to the mid-county, citing
> >traffic concerns. Well, gee, maybe if Highway 1 was widened to 3 or 4
> >lanes in both directions, that entire bottleneck between Santa Cruz
> >and Capitola might be eliminated.
>
> They would have to consider more than one thing at the same time
> and they are not that smart.
No, it's utterly consistent. Widening the freeway will induce growth,
growth is bad; Home Depot will make this a nicer place to live (less
need to leave the community for a decent price), inducing growth, growth
is bad.
Traffic is good. People will avoid the area and won't want to live here,
and as a bonus it can be used to keep icky old-growth-destroying chains
from moving in. Hwy1 traffic is irrelevant when you walk or ride your
ecofriendly bicycle. If you have to travel so far you can't bike then
you deserve to suffer in traffic.
-Dan Veditz
mag...@rahul.net
>John Reece" <re...@cut-this.cruzio.com> writes:
>> Long checkout lines in retail are deliberate.
>
>What does the store get out of long checkout lines? I'd
>think it'd be to the store's advantage to move as many
>customers through the registers per unit time as pos-
>sible. Hell, there are even those customers (like me)
>who will often say "Screw this!" and walk out if they
>see long lines at the registeres.
See all the low price goodies that are just within reach while you are waiting
in line? Want to hazzard a guess as to how well those goodies sell when the
lines are short versus when the lines are long?
jc
Geoff Miller
"John Reece" <re...@cut-this.cruzio.com> writes:
> OK, explain the term "flag lot".
A flag lot is a piece of property where an admiral lives.
The term itself has already been explained, but before we
move on, I have to say that I continue to be surprised at
how many people have never heard of flag lots. Maybe my
perception is tweaked by having grown up in Los Altos,
where flag lots are as common as dirt, but they're hardly
unknown elsewhere.
Another thing that astounds me is the number of people in
the Bay Area who've never heard of Boulder Creek. And
I'm not talking about recent arrivals or longtime Contra
Costa County residents, either, but people I encounter
on the Peninsula and in the South Bay.
And not only that, but a lot of the people who _have_
heard of Boulder Creek seem to think that it's a lot
farther away from the Bay Area proper than it actually
is. These folks are usually amazed that it only takes
me 45 minutes to drive to work. It seems that anytime
mountains and curvy roads are involved, the effective
distance is doubled in the minds of many people.
I think what it is, is that more people than I ever
realized are the sort who just don't care about anything
outside their immediate orbits. As I go through life,
I'm continually astounded at how little native curiosity
the average person has.
Geoff Miller
John Reece" <re...@cut-this.cruzio.com> writes:
> The main thing I dislike about Home Depot is their
> sloppy housekeeping.
That's true. What bothers me the most, as much as I like
the store as a whole, is the noise level. A major con-
tributor to that is the famous Home Depot PA System From
Hell. Not only is it never silent for long, but in most
Home depot stores, the system is the sort that's activated
by a touch of a telephone button. Which is well and good,
except that the piercing BEEP! preceding each announcement
actually goes out over the speakers.
I've observed that anywhere people have access to a public
address system, it tends to be overused -- both in terms of
frequency and in terms of duration. I first became aware
of this in the Coast Guard, where I noticed that many of
the people who made announcements over the ship-wide 1MC
system seemed to deliberately drag out their spiels for as
long as possible.
A few years back, the constant chatter over the PA at the
Barnes & Noble in Santa Clara got so out of control ("Manager
to Cash Wrap One, Manager To Cash Wrap One, please!") that I
actually wrote an irate letter reminding the store management
that the place was full of people trying to READ, goddammit,
and suggested that their staff's communications needs might
be better met with the use of cell phones and pagers.
What the hell is a PA system even DOING in a bookstore to
begin with, one wonders? If they ever needed to evacuate
everyone because of a fire or a power failure, those needs
could be met by keeping one battery-operated bullhorn under
the counter at either end of the store. The very nature of
a bullhorn would preclude its casual (mis)use, I think.
Anyway, back to Home Depot.
When I was in the Sunnyvale Home Depot for half an hour or
so one summer afternoon , I made it a point to time the
periods of silence between announcements on the store's PA
system. The longest interval I timed (and it only happened
once) was FOUR SECONDS. And then as described above, the
employees often seem to drag their announcements out as long
as they posibly can. It's their time on stage, I suppose,
and so they want to savor it while it lasts.
Then there are the forklifts, whose drivers will usually beep
their horns a lot more, and a lot longer, than is really
necessary to make people aware of their approach. It's really
the same phenomenon as with the PA system, and one that I'm
convinced extends to a lot of motorcyclists as well as the
lowered-minitruck crowd: "Be Somebody -- Make A Loud Noise
And Be Noticed!"
In closing, I have a question for all you parents in the
readership: What is it about shopping at hardware stores
like OSH or Home Depot that makes you feel compelled to
bring your small children? Hardware stores always seem
to be overrun with little kids, proportionately more so
than most other stores. In fact, I think that only the
aforementioned "barefoot & pregnant" stores have a higher
kid-density. Why is this?
> Long checkout lines in retail are deliberate.
What does the store get out of long checkout lines? I'd
think it'd be to the store's advantage to move as many
customers through the registers per unit time as pos-
sible. Hell, there are even those customers (like me)
who will often say "Screw this!" and walk out if they
see long lines at the registeres.
Geoff
melp...@cruzio.com
<dve...@netscape.com> wrote:
>No, it's utterly consistent. Widening the freeway will induce growth,
>growth is bad; Home Depot will make this a nicer place to live (less
>need to leave the community for a decent price), inducing growth, growth
>is bad.
>
>Traffic is good. People will avoid the area and won't want to live here,
>and as a bonus it can be used to keep icky old-growth-destroying chains
>from moving in. Hwy1 traffic is irrelevant when you walk or ride your
>ecofriendly bicycle. If you have to travel so far you can't bike then
>you deserve to suffer in traffic.
That's the theory. So far, it hasn't panned out. Now what?
--Mel
melp...@cruzio.com
Patty Wayne
>
> The only *real* Y2K problem involves prepurchased headstones with
> "XXXX - 19 " carved in them.
>
> I just heard that this is going to effect something like 250k
> people.
>
> Boy! Talk about overplanning for the future!
You didn't hear about the mass suicide planned for New Year's Eve? ;-)
--
http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/quarters/6154/
The Maneuvering Room
http://members.xoom.com/Tautog639/
WTF Page-The People, Places, and Things for which Submarines are Named
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Glen Appleby
(Geoff Miller) wrote:
>What does the store get out of long checkout lines? I'd
>think it'd be to the store's advantage to move as many
>customers through the registers per unit time as pos-
>sible. Hell, there are even those customers (like me)
>who will often say "Screw this!" and walk out if they
>see long lines at the registeres.
I have often thought of taking a larger group of people to Costco
to go shopping. A bit of a twist, though. The idea would be to
load up everybody's barges, get into the checkout lines (but not
in a solid group, but well interspersed with regular shopers);
then, one at a time, get discusted and just walk out, leaving the
full cart there for the employees to deal with.
Now, this is of some benefit to the regular shoppers as well.
Whenever one of my shill shoppers leaves, they get to move up one
position in line.
Glen Appleby
(Geoff Miller) wrote:
>Another thing that astounds me is the number of people in
>the Bay Area who've never heard of Boulder Creek.
And we kinda like it like that.
>And not only that, but a lot of the people who _have_
>heard of Boulder Creek seem to think that it's a lot
>farther away from the Bay Area proper than it actually
>is.
Again, shhhhhh.
>I think what it is, is that more people than I ever
>realized are the sort who just don't care about anything
>outside their immediate orbits. As I go through life,
>I'm continually astounded at how little native curiosity
>the average person has.
OK, now the serious part of the post (I was only half serious,
previously).
Might this be related, in any way, to a skool system and
parenting methods that seem focused on squelching any inherent
curiosity in kids?
Glen Appleby
Keep saying it over and over, with the hopes that somebody will
believe it, eventually.
I'm not suggesting that it is an effective approach. It's just
one that Dean has long used, so I figure that government should
start trying it as well.
Gosh. Who woulda thought that Dean was a testing site for
government stupidity?
Glen (everybody?) Appleby
TBO
geo...@netcom.com (Geoff Miller) wrote:
> Another thing that astounds me is the number of people in
> the Bay Area who've never heard of Boulder Creek. And
> I'm not talking about recent arrivals or longtime Contra
> Costa County residents, either, but people I encounter
> on the Peninsula and in the South Bay.
"Boulder Creek? Oh, Colorado, right?"
... it has happened.
--- TBO
Don Steiny
>On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:01:49 -0800, Daniel Veditz
><dve...@netscape.com> wrote:
>>No, it's utterly consistent. Widening the freeway will induce growth,
>>growth is bad; Home Depot will make this a nicer place to live (less
>>need to leave the community for a decent price), inducing growth, growth
>>is bad.
>That's the theory. So far, it hasn't panned out. Now what?
They keep trying: Which is cheaper to live, Harlem or Manhatten?
SF or Stockton? Beverly Hills or East LA? It is always cheaper to live
in a slum without services or jobs. The city council and the board of
supervisors hope to turn Santa Cruz into a slum without jobs or services
and by so doing, they will reduce the housing costs.
It could work.
I was in Hawaii last week and met an expatriot from Santa Cruz.
He told me, without prompting, that he had left Santa Cruz because it was
so corrupt that it was impossible to do business here. That a small group
of people had dominated the politics and appointed friends and family to
all the boards and commissions that it was impossible to get fair treatment.
Tim May
(Don Steiny) wrote:
> melp...@cruzio.com writes:
>
> >On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:01:49 -0800, Daniel Veditz
> ><dve...@netscape.com> wrote:
>
> >>No, it's utterly consistent. Widening the freeway will induce growth,
> >>growth is bad; Home Depot will make this a nicer place to live (less
> >>need to leave the community for a decent price), inducing growth, growth
> >>is bad.
>
> >That's the theory. So far, it hasn't panned out. Now what?
>
> They keep trying: Which is cheaper to live, Harlem or Manhatten?
> SF or Stockton? Beverly Hills or East LA? It is always cheaper to live
> in a slum without services or jobs. The city council and the board of
> supervisors hope to turn Santa Cruz into a slum without jobs or services
> and by so doing, they will reduce the housing costs.
>
> It could work.
>
Unlikely. The spillover pressure from Silicon Valley, plus the newfound
riches of the local high-tech companies (Cisco, Kahn's new company, etc.),
mean that the best quality houses and locales will see rising prices for a
while. My old neighborhood of Rio Del Mar used to have a lot of houses in
the $200-300 K range, as recently as a couple of years ago. Now I am
shocked to see listings for RDM looking roughly like this, from my memory
of a recent "Sentinel" Sunday real estate page:
"3 BR/2BA, nice family house, blah blah, $672K."
"3 BR/2.5 BA, spacious, near golf course, blah blah, $735K."
"2 BR/1 BA, charmer, needs some TLC but the bones are good, blah blah, $495K."
"4 BR/3 BA, perfect for rental, convenient to bus lines and Cabrillo, blah
blah, $695K."
Prices seem to have moved from the $200-300K level right through the $500K
barrier and are into the $600s. I assume this has a lot to do with the
incredible rise in the stock market over the past year or two, the stock
options and bonues many of these residents have gotten in their Silicon
Valley jobs, and just the overall shortage of high-quality homes.
Gaack. (Not too bad for me, though, as I still have a house in RDM. While
I had been hoping to sell it for about $275-300K, it now looks like I can
get more for.)
We are heading toward a predictable outcome: a population of high-income,
or house-rich, property owners and a population of minimum wage, leftist,
students and assorted service industry workers. It is likely that the
latter class will continue to outnumber the former at the voting booth,
though, so policies won't change.
And many of the most expensive areas, like the aforementioned RDM area,
along with Seascape, Los Barrancos, Forests and Meadows, and areas of
Soquel, etc., are outside the City limits, obviously. So Santa Cruz will
continue to punish businesses they disfavor and will continue to practice
their "eat the rich" social policies.
> I was in Hawaii last week and met an expatriot from Santa Cruz.
> He told me, without prompting, that he had left Santa Cruz because it was
> so corrupt that it was impossible to do business here. That a small group
> of people had dominated the politics and appointed friends and family to
> all the boards and commissions that it was impossible to get fair treatment.
It is becoming clear that downtown Santa Cruz is moving toward
"trinket-selling," thus catering to those who hang out on the mall, er, on
Pacific Avenue. Those who live in the $900K houses in Pasatiempo, or the
$700K houses on the upper Westside, or the $1M and up choice houses on
oceanfront lots...well, they are almost certainly not venturing into
downtown Santa Cruz to have to step over the winos and bums and to fight
the crowds of dreadlocked Rastamen (and Rastawimmin) with their blonde
hair clumped together.
Most of them probably either put up with the not-quite-top-class stores at
Capitola Mall, or they head over to the Valley for their Nordstrom's fix.
Or down to Carmel and Monterey.
Downtown Santa Cruz may thrive as a happening place for programming shops
on the second and third floors, places like Lightsurf, Cisco, Network
Alchemy, Lutris, etc., with coffee shops and trinket shops to amuse the
crowds. But the sales base is weak and is unlikely to get stronger with
the current voting trends.
The good news for Borders: they will be allowed into the downtown area.
The bad news for Borders: see above.
Don Steiny
>In article <HUQ54.161$L5.2...@tw11.nn.bcandid.com>, ste...@infopoint.com
>(Don Steiny) wrote:
>> They keep trying: Which is cheaper to live, Harlem or Manhatten?
>> SF or Stockton? Beverly Hills or East LA? It is always cheaper to live
>> in a slum without services or jobs. The city council and the board of
>> supervisors hope to turn Santa Cruz into a slum without jobs or services
>> and by so doing, they will reduce the housing costs.
>>
>> It could work.
>>
>Unlikely. The spillover pressure from Silicon Valley, plus the newfound
>riches of the local high-tech companies (Cisco, Kahn's new company, etc.),
>mean that the best quality houses and locales will see rising prices for a
>while.
Check out Isle Vista for a model. It is possible that in the downtown
area, the boardwalk, circle streets and so on things will just get more like
Isle Vista.
Daniel Veditz
>
> In closing, I have a question for all you parents in the
> readership: What is it about shopping at hardware stores
> like OSH or Home Depot that makes you feel compelled to
> bring your small children? Hardware stores always seem
> to be overrun with little kids, proportionately more so
> than most other stores. In fact, I think that only the
> aforementioned "barefoot & pregnant" stores have a higher
> kid-density. Why is this?
Because you're not allowed to lock your kids in the closet when you have
an errand to run on the week-end?
There really aren't places you can drop your kid off for an hour or two
(and if there are, who's going to trust them?). Most parents aren't
going to arrange for daycare on days when they are normally available to
do the job.
-Dan Veditz
Daniel Veditz
>
> On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 12:01:49 -0800, Daniel Veditz
> <dve...@netscape.com> wrote:
>
> >No, it's utterly consistent. Widening the freeway will induce growth,
> >growth is bad; Home Depot will make this a nicer place to live (less
> >need to leave the community for a decent price), inducing growth, growth
> >is bad.
> >
> >and as a bonus it can be used to keep icky old-growth-destroying chains
> >from moving in. Hwy1 traffic is irrelevant when you walk or ride your
> >ecofriendly bicycle. If you have to travel so far you can't bike then
> >you deserve to suffer in traffic.
>
Oh I don't know, it's worked on me. I won't live in Santa Cruz and I
avoid travelling south of the fishhook, doing my shopping over the hill
(near work) instead when possible.
I guess the county still gets my property tax, but their anti-growth
policies are working to the extent that they're losing out on a lot of
potential sales tax from me. On the other hand, without revenue from my
potential purchases stores will grow less (or shrink), cutting jobs,
making the place less attractive for people to come live.
Sounds like a rousing success to me!
-Dan Veditz
Tim May
(Don Steiny) wrote:
> tc...@got.net (Tim May) writes:
>
> >In article <HUQ54.161$L5.2...@tw11.nn.bcandid.com>, ste...@infopoint.com
> >(Don Steiny) wrote:
>
> >> They keep trying: Which is cheaper to live, Harlem or Manhatten?
> >> SF or Stockton? Beverly Hills or East LA? It is always cheaper to live
> >> in a slum without services or jobs. The city council and the board of
> >> supervisors hope to turn Santa Cruz into a slum without jobs or services
> >> and by so doing, they will reduce the housing costs.
> >>
> >> It could work.
> >>
>
> >Unlikely. The spillover pressure from Silicon Valley, plus the newfound
> >riches of the local high-tech companies (Cisco, Kahn's new company, etc.),
> >mean that the best quality houses and locales will see rising prices for a
> >while.
>
> Check out Isle Vista for a model. It is possible that in the downtown
> area, the boardwalk, circle streets and so on things will just get more like
> Isle Vista.
I lived in Isla Vista for 2 years.
Santa Cruz will not likely ever be like that, if only because of the
installed base of actual buildings, historical buildings, etc. Isla Vista
was more like an Army tilt-up town, as it mostly was.
Tim May
<dve...@netscape.com> wrote:
I don't mind the kids running around in the Home Depot aisles...just so
long as the kids and their parents don't mind if they smash into the
shovels and pitchforks I have in my barge.
melp...@cruzio.com
>In closing, I have a question for all you parents in the
>readership: What is it about shopping at hardware stores
>like OSH or Home Depot that makes you feel compelled to
>bring your small children? Hardware stores always seem
>to be overrun with little kids, proportionately more so
>than most other stores. In fact, I think that only the
>aforementioned "barefoot & pregnant" stores have a higher
>kid-density. Why is this?
I would much rather shop without my children, but it gets expensive
quickly to have to pay a babysitter whenever I need to get groceries,
or hardware, or any of the other things I need to buy.
Remembering back to when I was a kid, I recall that a trip to the
hardware store with my Dad was a real treat. I didn't get to spend
much time with him because he worked long hours - usually when we did
spend time together, it was in the course of weekend chores or
errands. Going to the dump with him was particularly fun.
--Mel
melp...@cruzio.com
Steve Premo
Steiny) wrote:
> Which is cheaper to live, Harlem or Manhatten?
This is totally irrelevant to your point, but isn't Harlem part of
Manhatten?
Steve Premo -- Santa Cruz, California
"Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum."
(A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants.)
http://www2.cruzio.com/~premo/steve.html
Glen Appleby
Veditz <dve...@netscape.com> wrote:
>Because you're not allowed to lock your kids in the closet when you have
>an errand to run on the week-end?
Ever hear of Niquil or duct tape?
Glen Appleby
<taut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> The only *real* Y2K problem involves prepurchased headstones with
>> "XXXX - 19 " carved in them.
>>
>> I just heard that this is going to effect something like 250k
>> people.
>>
>> Boy! Talk about overplanning for the future!
>
>You didn't hear about the mass suicide planned for New Year's Eve? ;-)
And I thought that since Kavorkian was in prison, that was called
off.
They got some freelancer out there?
swe...@scruznet.com
> swe...@scruznet.com wrote:
>>I've noticed that the (larger) camera on top of the West Coast inn
>>actively monitors the beach go'ers, including under the pier. Also
>>active camera's on the Boardwalk just in front of the Pirate Ship,
>>and on top of the Sea Cloud out on the wharf.
> The camera on top of the West Coast Inn is the SlugVideo webcam,
> http://ipmml.cse.ucsc.edu/SlugVideo/index.shtml (but it appears to be
> broken again). When its operating, every 15 minutes, it pans
> automatically and takes 3 or 4 different views, including a neat
> panorama.
I still think there are two camera's on top of the West Coast Inn.
There's one directly above the top floor of rooms (in the center
of the main building, and another all the way up on top of that
same building. We were eating lunch again there last weekend,
and I still think the larger one is a security-cam. It sure
isn't panning anything, and the directions I've seen that thing
pointing, wouldn't make for good web-material.
Thanks for posting the links.
-sw
Geoff Miller
Daniel Veditz <dve...@netscape.com> writes:
> Because you're not allowed to lock your kids in the closet
> when you have an errand to run on the week-end?
You're missing the Point, which is not that children are seen
in public at all, but that I've noticed proportionately more
of them in hardware stores than in most other kinds of retail
emporia. It almost seems that parents will sometimes find
alternatives to bringing the kids with them much of the time,
but when the errand is a trip to the hardware store, they'll
actually go out of their way to bring the children along.
Geoff
--
"Edith Head gives good costume"
Tim May
(Geoff Miller) wrote:
I think the proportions are also skewed by the type of store. At a
bookstore, for example, one doesn't see as many "broods" running around.
Probably because the types of folks who shop at Home Depot and Orchard
Supply Hardware are families with homes to buy things for, with not as
many of the single apartment dwellers who are unlikely to be in a Home
Depot type of store.
Steve Premo
tc...@got.net (Tim May) wrote:
>In article <83e0jp$p1c$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>, geo...@netcom.com
>(Geoff Miller) wrote:
>
>> Daniel Veditz <dve...@netscape.com> writes:
>>
>> > Because you're not allowed to lock your kids in the closet
>> > when you have an errand to run on the week-end?
>>
>> You're missing the Point, which is not that children are seen
>> in public at all, but that I've noticed proportionately more
>> of them in hardware stores than in most other kinds of retail
>> emporia. It almost seems that parents will sometimes find
>> alternatives to bringing the kids with them much of the time,
>> but when the errand is a trip to the hardware store, they'll
>> actually go out of their way to bring the children along.
>>
>I think the proportions are also skewed by the type of store. At a
>bookstore, for example, one doesn't see as many "broods" running around.
>Probably because the types of folks who shop at Home Depot and Orchard
>Supply Hardware are families with homes to buy things for, with not as
>many of the single apartment dwellers who are unlikely to be in a Home
>Depot type of store.
Good point. Also, we tend to take trips to the hardware store on our
days off, because that's when we have time to do a project around the
house. Other shopping is often done (at least in our family) on my
lunch break or on my way home from work.
Also, when you've got a family with kids and two parents who both
work, it's typical for both parents to be busy on the weekend. Mom's
cleaning house and Dad's going to the hardware store to fix things.
It makes it a lot easier for Mom to clean house if Dad can take the
kids with him to the hardware store. Of course, it's also easier for
Dad to go to the hardware store if he leaves the kids at home, but
it's sometimes easier to go shopping with the kids than to do
housework with the kids.
And sometimes Mom just needs a break to keep from going nuts, because
even if both parents are around, the kids are often much more
demanding on Mom than they are on Dad.
In other words, I don't think people take their kids to the hardware
store because it's more fun that way; they do it because it's what
works best for the family on that particular day. And people with
kids arrange their lives according to what works best for their
family, not according to what works best for that portion of the
general public which is easily annoyed by children.
Having said all that, though, my impression is that the percentage of
people who have kids with them at the hardware store is considerably
lower than the percentage of people who have kids. I suspect that,
more often than not, the kids are left home when Dad goes to the
hardware store.
Daniel Veditz
>
> In article <38580FCB...@netscape.com>, Daniel Veditz
> <dve...@netscape.com> wrote:
>
> > Geoff Miller wrote:
> > >
> > > readership: What is it about shopping at hardware stores
> > > like OSH or Home Depot that makes you feel compelled to
> > > bring your small children? Hardware stores always seem
> > > to be overrun with little kids, proportionately more so
> > > than most other stores. In fact, I think that only the
> > > aforementioned "barefoot & pregnant" stores have a higher
> > > kid-density. Why is this?
> >
> > an errand to run on the week-end?
> >
>
> long as the kids and their parents don't mind if they smash into the
> shovels and pitchforks I have in my barge.
Sounds fair to me. I keep my kid strapped down in places like that.
-Dan Veditz
John R Pierce
>I still think there are two camera's on top of the West Coast Inn.
>There's one directly above the top floor of rooms (in the center
>of the main building, and another all the way up on top of that
>same building. We were eating lunch again there last weekend,
>and I still think the larger one is a security-cam. It sure
>isn't panning anything, and the directions I've seen that thing
>pointing, wouldn't make for good web-material.
Here is the SlugVideo Dream-errr-WestCoast cam...
http://sapphire.cse.ucsc.edu/SlugVideo/about-the-camera.html
--
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea --
massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and
a source of mind- boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."
(Gene Spafford)
John R Pierce
>I still think there are two camera's on top of the West Coast Inn.
>There's one directly above the top floor of rooms (in the center
>of the main building, and another all the way up on top of that
>same building. We were eating lunch again there last weekend,
>and I still think the larger one is a security-cam. It sure
>isn't panning anything, and the directions I've seen that thing
>pointing, wouldn't make for good web-material.
oh, and here's a picture of the WestCoastSantaCruz Hotel I happened to
have snapped a while back...
http://hogranch.com/CoolPix/18Sep99a/DSCN1071.JPG
SlugVideo is the camera to the left.
And, yeah, I see that other camera on top of the elevator shaft. Yes,
thats probably Seaside Company security.
Mike Parrish
> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 00:33:42 -0800, in scruz.general,Mike Parrish
> <spl...@postoffice.pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >Tim May wrote:
> <stuff, snipped>
> >I know, I know, I need to be sent to the showers for disagreeing with you... Save
> >your breath.
>
> I didn't know that "Parrish" is Jewish.
Come on Glen,
You know Tim is an equal opportunity madman....
Mike
Mike Parrish
> On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 06:14:53 GMT, in scruz.general,Patty Wayne
> <taut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> The only *real* Y2K problem involves prepurchased headstones with
> >> "XXXX - 19 " carved in them.
> >>
> >> I just heard that this is going to effect something like 250k
> >> people.
> >>
> >> Boy! Talk about overplanning for the future!
> >
> >You didn't hear about the mass suicide planned for New Year's Eve? ;-)
>
> And I thought that since Kavorkian was in prison, that was called
> off.
>
> They got some freelancer out there?
Tim..... something or other.
Can't remember the last name...
Mike
Geoff Miller
Steve Premo <pr...@mail.cruzio.com> writes:
> And people with kids arrange their lives according to what
> works best for their family, not according to what works
> best for that portion of the general public which is easily
> annoyed by children.
I detect a note of defensiveness here. My mentioning an
abundance of children in a certain type of store wasn't
intended as a complaint, merely an observation. (I *am*
easily annoyed by small children, admittedly, but I don't
remember telegraphing anything to that effect in my initial
remarks on kids in hardware stores.
> Having said all that, though, my impression is that the
> percentage of people who have kids with them at the
> hardware store is considerably lower than the percentage
> of people who have kids. I suspect that, more often than
> not, the kids are left home when Dad goes to the hardware
> store.
The proportion of people who leave the kids home when they
go to rthe hardware store isn't what's at issue. What's
at issue is the proportion of parents who bring their kids
with them to the hardware store versus parents who bring
their kids with them to _other_ types of stores.
Glen Appleby
In time you May.
melp...@cruzio.com
>I think the proportions are also skewed by the type of store. At a
>bookstore, for example, one doesn't see as many "broods" running around.
>Probably because the types of folks who shop at Home Depot and Orchard
>Supply Hardware are families with homes to buy things for, with not as
>many of the single apartment dwellers who are unlikely to be in a Home
>Depot type of store.
Bookstores are places where people tend to browse, which is impossible
to do with young children (unless there is only one sleeping baby).
Hardware stores are places that most people go in with a list of what
to buy. I suspect this also has something to do with it.
--Mel
melp...@cruzio.com
Daniel Veditz
>
> The proportion of people who leave the kids home when they
> go to rthe hardware store isn't what's at issue. What's
> at issue is the proportion of parents who bring their kids
> with them to the hardware store versus parents who bring
> their kids with them to _other_ types of stores.
And I don't think you've made any kind of case that it's different. I
know in my family's case, if we have errands to run on the weekend the
kid comes along. As a result we avoid optional trips, avoid any kind of
"browsing" experience (like a bookstore), and limit meals to fast, noisy
places. If you see me and my wife you see my kid, but you don't see us
in lots of places we used to go when we were childless. You *do* see us
in hardware stores when something has broken and needs fixing.
If we arrange babysitting we're not going to waste it shopping, though
we might poke into the bookstore or some Pacific Avenue trinket shops
after a movie.
-Dan Veditz
John Reece
mag...@rahul.net wrote in message
<385b1959....@news.concentric.net>...
>On 15 Dec 1999 01:48:22 GMT, geo...@netcom.com (Geoff Miller) wrote:
>>John Reece" <re...@cut-this.cruzio.com> writes:
>>> Long checkout lines in retail are deliberate.
>>What does the store get out of long checkout lines?
Saves money on staffing.
>> I'd
>>think it'd be to the store's advantage to move as many
>>customers through the registers per unit time as pos-
>>sible. Hell, there are even those customers (like me)
>>who will often say "Screw this!" and walk out if they
>>see long lines at the registeres.
I do this, but most won't, however. In queueing theory, this is known as
"balking
at the queue". By surveying service times, arrival rates and the like one
can predict not only wait times for a given number of servers, but also how
many customers will balk for a given wait time. In other words,
managements
know virtually everyone will wait a little while, and most will wait quite a
while,
and so by trying customers' patience a little bit, but not too
much, one can reduce staffing costs. Individual
stores probably don't do the actual math, but many corporations
do do this sort of thing.
I took queueing theory as well as a course in time-motion studies. Not
a good thing for a Type-A to do.
John Reece
John Reece
Glen Appleby wrote in message <3857ab3d....@news.ihwy.com>...
>On 15 Dec 1999 01:48:22 GMT, in scruz.general,geo...@netcom.com
>(Geoff Miller) wrote:
>
>>What does the store get out of long checkout lines? I'd
>>think it'd be to the store's advantage to move as many
>>customers through the registers per unit time as pos-
>>sible. Hell, there are even those customers (like me)
>>who will often say "Screw this!" and walk out if they
>>see long lines at the registeres.
Most won't. By applying something known as queueing theory
one can even predict not only how wait times will vary with
the number of servers, but how many customers will "balk at
the queue". Basically, everyone will wait a little while, and most
people will wait quite a while, and if one can successfully try
customers' patience a little bit, but not too much, one can reduce
staffing costs by more than the lost sales.
Individual stores probably never do the formal math, but apply the
general principles. However, almost every corporate customer
service phone bank has a bean counter somewhere analysing
this stuff.
I curse the day I took courses on queueing theory and time-motion
studies. Not good for a Type-A.
John Reece
Glen Appleby
<re...@cut-this.cruzio.com> wrote:
>mag...@rahul.net wrote in message
><385b1959....@news.concentric.net>...
>>On 15 Dec 1999 01:48:22 GMT, geo...@netcom.com (Geoff Miller) wrote:
>
>>>John Reece" <re...@cut-this.cruzio.com> writes:
>
>>>> Long checkout lines in retail are deliberate.
>>>What does the store get out of long checkout lines?
>
>Saves money on staffing.
I'm not sure that this is the main reason, in this case. Costco
pays their employees *very* well and they offer darned good
benefits.
Steve Wertz
>>I still think there are two camera's on top of the West Coast Inn.
>>There's one directly above the top floor of rooms (in the center
>>of the main building, and another all the way up on top of that
>>same building. We were eating lunch again there last weekend,
>>and I still think the larger one is a security-cam. It sure
>>isn't panning anything, and the directions I've seen that thing
>>pointing, wouldn't make for good web-material.
> oh, and here's a picture of the WestCoastSantaCruz Hotel I happened to
> have snapped a while back...
> http://hogranch.com/CoolPix/18Sep99a/DSCN1071.JPG
> SlugVideo is the camera to the left.
> And, yeah, I see that other camera on top of the elevator shaft. Yes,
> thats probably Seaside Company security.
Thanks for posting that. That's a nice picture, really. It was taken
after January '98, and before, oh.... January '99.
The balcony fencings were concrete, not iron, and the West Coast's
logo is there. The facade of the condo's in back and been redone and
trimmed properly (and is still lit-up for the Holdidays - looks a mall
from the street). The chairs on the patio were white or whicker (in
season), and some had small tables. The suites on the
right are still having the balcony's replaced, or are still
concrete.
The security-cam seems to be headed down East Cliff, towards
Oceanview Park, probably not much of interest there except a
a nude sunbather on her balcony, a mountain-biker smoking a tailor-made,
and somebody training the dog (to shit). The ladder leading up to the
camera I don't remember seeing since November of '97.
Worst of all, J&M painting just painted the Boardwalk a similar
puke-yellow color.
I'll guess the picture was taken March '98?
-sw
Glen Appleby
<swe...@swertz.scruznet.com> wrote:
>Thanks for posting that. That's a nice picture, really. It was taken
>after January '98, and before, oh.... January '99.
>
>The balcony fencings were concrete, not iron, and the West Coast's
>logo is there. The facade of the condo's in back and been redone and
>trimmed properly (and is still lit-up for the Holdidays - looks a mall
>from the street). The chairs on the patio were white or whicker (in
>season), and some had small tables. The suites on the
>right are still having the balcony's replaced, or are still
>concrete.
>
>The security-cam seems to be headed down East Cliff, towards
>Oceanview Park, probably not much of interest there except a
>a nude sunbather on her balcony, a mountain-biker smoking a tailor-made,
>and somebody training the dog (to shit). The ladder leading up to the
>camera I don't remember seeing since November of '97.
>
>Worst of all, J&M painting just painted the Boardwalk a similar
>puke-yellow color.
>
>I'll guess the picture was taken March '98?
It seems that *somebody* knows way too much about the inn.
Don't most guys take their "dates" to someplace a bit less
expensive?
Glen (You know -- saving the big buk$ for jewlery) Appleby
Steve Wertz
> On Fri, 07 Jan 2000 13:11:49 GMT, in scruz.general,Steve Wertz
> <swe...@swertz.scruznet.com> wrote:
>>Thanks for posting that. That's a nice picture, really. It was taken
>>after January '98, and before, oh.... January '99.
>>
>>The balcony fencings were concrete, not iron, and the West Coast's
>>logo is there. The facade of the condo's in back and been redone and
>>trimmed properly (and is still lit-up for the Holdidays - looks a mall
>>from the street). The chairs on the patio were white or whicker (in
>>season), and some had small tables. The suites on the
>>right are still having the balcony's replaced, or are still
>>concrete.
>>
>>The security-cam seems to be headed down East Cliff, towards
>>Oceanview Park, probably not much of interest there except a
>>a nude sunbather on her balcony, a mountain-biker smoking a tailor-made,
>>and somebody training the dog (to shit). The ladder leading up to the
>>camera I don't remember seeing since November of '97.
>>
>>Worst of all, J&M painting just painted the Boardwalk a similar
>>puke-yellow color.
>>
>>I'll guess the picture was taken March '98?
> It seems that *somebody* knows way too much about the inn.
Nope. I just live nearby and pass it 4-6 times week. I could also
tell you what kind, and the going price of the fish for sale on the
wharf is every-other day, if anybody here really cared (you don't, it's
not worth it)
I've only stayed at the Inn twice (not on my tab), and
most of the observances I made were from before I even lived here.
> Don't most guys take their "dates" to someplace a bit less
> expensive?
Yeah. The seats of a beat-up pickup truck that looked like it
just rolled down Hwy 9 from Boulder Creek, but didn't have enough 'umph'
to make it over the Riverside bridge. They seem to collect
in a pile down here, kind of like the shopping carts in the river,
or the fly-fishermen who just like an excuse to adorn themselves in
latex boots, whiping their rods aimlessly at imaginary fish.
-sw
John R Pierce
>> have snapped a while back...
>
>> http://hogranch.com/CoolPix/18Sep99a/DSCN1071.JPG
>
>> SlugVideo is the camera to the left.
>
>> And, yeah, I see that other camera on top of the elevator shaft. Yes,
>> thats probably Seaside Company security.
>
>after January '98, and before, oh.... January '99.
Actually, it was taken on 18 September, 1999 (note the URL?), right
around noon.
Geoff Miller
Steve Wertz <swe...@swertz.scruznet.com> writes:
> The chairs on the patio were white or whicker (in
> season), [...]
What's the season for white chairs? Is that one of
those things like how it's supposedly a _faux pas_
to wear white shoes after September? Where's Miss
Manners when we really need her?
Geoff
--
"Anyone who uses the term 'workshop' who isn't involved
in light engineering is a right twat." --Alexei Sayle
Glen Appleby
(Geoff Miller) wrote:
>to wear white shoes after September? Where's Miss
>Manners when we really need her?
Going down on Mr. Blackwell in an attempt to stay offa his list?
(She cut her hair short and bound her breasts)
Steve Wertz
> Actually, it was taken on 18 September, 1999 (note the URL?), right
> around noon.
So much for observation, eh? :-)
-sw
Steve Wertz
> Steve Wertz <swe...@swertz.scruznet.com> writes:
>> The chairs on the patio were white or whicker (in
>> season), [...]
> What's the season for white chairs? Is that one of
> those things like how it's supposedly a _faux pas_
> to wear white shoes after September? Where's Miss
> Manners when we really need her?
The whicker chairs were usually in the rooms. The
housekeepers drag them back inside, however often.
They're better for lounging than the stock Home Depot
chairs on the patio's.
-sw