To what extent can a PM Officer help??

[Gustavo Cebrian Garcia]

Hello,

In my opinion, a PMO can help by having one-to-one meetings, taking metrics, etc.

However, if the PMO is managing more than one team, I think it is going to be imposible to know about 

all the requirements, testing activities, and really do good couching. Moreover, I am not sure how much a

PMO can help...

So, the PMO can help motivating, but it is the Scrum Masters and Product Owner responsability to be really

close to the team and the ones who are going to motivate and get high performance teams.

What is your experience on this?

--

Gustavo.

[Embrenchia Snyman]

My experience with a PMO in a large scale organization, is of the worst kind. 

They cannot get over the fact that they are no longer in control, there is no more governance to enforce in a self governing team, they basically don't have a job anymore. Despite this, they are also the ones most resistant to change. Their latest endeavor was to embark on a metrics frenzy, drawing up checklists for the Agile principles and calling it the Quality Principles Ticksheet, the sole purpose is to make tick marks or crosses on things like " did every story comply to a definition of done". Your project then gets a good or bad rating depending on number of crosses or right marks. 

I am sorry but it is simply ridiculous, measuring the wrong things. 

I will take the very strong stand that the PMO has a place no longer. 

Teams with their POs and Scrum masters are capable of getting the job done without heaps of admin for metrics. 

Embrenchia Snyman

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[Michael James]

On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Gustavo Cebrian Garcia <g.cebria...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So, the PMO can help motivating, but it is the Scrum Masters and Product Owner responsability to be really
> close to the team and the ones who are going to motivate and get high performance teams.

I'm going to take your idea even further and assert that *no one* can motivate developers to do complex work. The Product Owner can provide an inspiring vision and the ScrumMaster can help remove demotivating impediments (such as a PMO who is trying to pressure -- I mean "motivate" -- them).

I do not hear developers reporting the PMO as a source of motivation. More often the PMO is described as an impediment. The PMOs I meet don't report great job satisfaction either. The role they've been asked to perform is inherently dysfunctional, rooted in the previous century's discredited models of human effectiveness. The last thing Taylorism was good for was building 9 million Model-T Fords. But Scrum is for creative work, building one of something that's never existed before.

This isn't to say the individuals saddled with dysfunctional management job titles don't have anything to offer the Agile organization. Most do. (A few others should be paid to stay home and out of the way.) People who are serious about team self organization are working to reduce the influence of job titles and static hierarchies, to the point of eliminating them.

--mj

[Gustavo Cebrian Garcia]

Hello,

I Knew i was going to hear something like this. So, what about Senior managers? Is their responsability just to hire good people for the teams?

I actually agree with what you are saying. The idea is simple. Working outside the group, not fighting with the real problems, does not really

add a lot of value.

I still think one-to-one conversations can be useful, but in my opinion, the team must be willing to listen and change...

Having said that, a check list can be used in a good way... The team can always learn...( and they should listen )

Gustavo.

[Albert Arul Prakash Rajendran]

Actually they don't have any responsibility other than mentoring themselves to some other place. May be some smart senior managers can help scrum masters to facilitate scrum of scrums and improving the process.



-- I really do not understand really why we need soo many hierarchy.

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[Gustavo Cebrian Garcia]

Hello,

Well, I have to say, that, a Senior Manager can be the facilitator to introduce Scrum practices. Obviously, he will need

training and Scrum Masters, (Agile Couches)

I think Lysa Adkins says in her book that a team needs an Agile Couch. If this Agile Couch tries to work on some other

projects/teams, he/she will not really add value.

They like Hierarchies because it is the way it always worked. To some extend, you sometimes need them.

Having said that, a still think in some way you need a Senior Manager to make sure you have the correct Product Owners, etc...

Make sure the client is happy, and so on...

Gustavo.

[RonJeffries]

Albert,

On Jan 4, 2012, at 8:17 AM, Albert Arul Prakash Rajendran wrote:

Actually they don't have any responsibility other than mentoring themselves to some other place. May be some smart senior managers can help scrum masters to facilitate scrum of scrums and improving the process.

It seems to me that you must never have sat in a senior manager's chair. Among the things they do are:

Decide what projects get invested in and what projects do not;

Assess the performance of the teams and individuals under them;

Negotiate responsibilities with other departments;

Decide the company's business priorities and product direction;

Negotiate arrangements with other companies for purchases, leases, sales;

Sell the product and promote the company;

We could just all go work in your basement, but that isn't what makes a big success. It might be more fun, mind you, but it doesn't build a Google or a GM.

Ron Jeffries

www.XProgramming.com

If another does not intend offense, it is wrong for me to seek it;

if another does indeed intend offense, it is foolish for me to permit it.

  -- Kelly Easterley

[Gustavo Cebrian Garcia]

Ron,

What is your experience then:

Are PMOs useful?

In my opinion, they can be useful (to some extent), as long as the team is good...

--

Gustavo.

[RonJeffries]

On Jan 4, 2012, at 9:35 AM, Gustavo Cebrian Garcia wrote:

Are PMOs useful?

They can be, I imagine. I've never seen it happen, but I've only been doing this for a half century.

In my opinion, they can be useful (to some extent), as long as the team is good...

If the team is good, what good is the PMO?

Ron Jeffries

www.XProgramming.com

 Before you contradict an old man, my fair friend, you should endeavor to understand him. - George Santayana

[Gustavo Cebrian Garcia]

On 4 January 2012 15:40, RonJeffries <ronje...@acm.org> wrote:

On Jan 4, 2012, at 9:35 AM, Gustavo Cebrian Garcia wrote:

Are PMOs useful?

They can be, I imagine. I've never seen it happen, but I've only been doing this for a half century.

In my opinion, they can be useful (to some extent), as long as the team is good...

If the team is good, what good is the PMO?

Good to learn. Well, a PMO can be a coach in some way. ( As I said, not being a full time coach, is difficult and you do not get benefits )

 

Ron Jeffries

www.XProgramming.com

 Before you contradict an old man, my fair friend, you should endeavor to understand him. - George Santayana

[Michael James]

On Jan 4, 2012, at 6:40 AM, RonJeffries wrote:

Are PMOs useful?

They can be, I imagine. I've never seen it happen, but I've only been doing this for a half century.

I met a guy named Bruce who may be a counterexample.  He is the "Agile PMO" for a local company and his function seems mostly to be conducting or coordinating trainings on Agile approaches, and being an internal source of information on Agile for people who want it.  From my discussions with him, I don't *think* he would do the unhelpful things we expect from the way the PMO role is ordinarily defined.

--mj

[gamsjo]

It seems to me that you are asking the question because you have a PMO
that do not want to abandon his/her title and still do "PMO work" in
an Agile setting.
IMO this is going backwards - Agile is meant to challenge the
existing, traditional paradigm.

It´s a bit like:
I have this nice spoon here, that I always have eaten my soup with.
But now I have discovered spagetti - so you go to a dining forum and
ask "How do I use a spoon for eating spagetti?" The obvious answer is
"You don´t - get a Fork!"

-geir

[Pierre Neis]

Hi Gustavo,

Good question... In my dream, Development team (i.e. Scrum Master) hires the people with the necessary background or mindset... but it's a dream.

I do not have often problems with Senior Managers willing to hire but much more with HR and Purchasing Department.

Here a new changing paradigm: People are values instead costs.

Pierre E.  NEIS, csp

PMO @ coPROcess S.A. │ Scrum & Lean Coach   

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[Pierre Neis]

There is a tactical initiative: transforming silos into a system driven by Portfolio.

Here you can have enough space for Agile Practices and PMO doesn't felt bereaved.

In other hand, having an Agile Coach as member of the PMO is strategically relevant.

Pierre E.  NEIS, csp

PMO @ coPROcess S.A. │ Scrum & Lean Coach   

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[Pierre Neis]

Changing paradigms is also true for the PMO.

PMO can give you feedback on best practices and is a support for the Product Owner at Meta Level. In my projects, I try to have a PMO as Product Owner, here I consider the PM Office as a Meta Scrum Team.

Changing paradigms fosters to include the Agile CoP or Scrum Center into the PM Office.

The core problem is that you can find different interpretation of the Mission of a Project Management Office:

• Prince 2: more or less Portfolio Management + Risk Management
• PMI: same + best practices knowledge center + coaching/training/mentoring on methodologies

Good source of inspiration: AgileEVM, Johanna Rothman's blog

Pierre E.  NEIS, csp

PMO @ coPROcess S.A. │ Scrum & Lean Coach   

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On 4 January 2012 08:44, Michael James <mj4s...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Skip La Fetra]

Pierre phrases it

>  Here a new changing paradigm: People are values instead costs.

 

I've coached that "people are capital assets" -- often they are treated as "production assets".

 

It is the same thought that Pierre has -- use whichever thought works best in your environment.

Capital == longlasting value to be used, nurtured and reused.  Production == expensed resource to be bought-at-value, consumed and replaced.

 

  - Skip

 

[Yves Hanoulle]

what is the response you get when you coach this?

y

2012/1/6 Skip La Fetra <Skip.L...@lafetra.com>

--

[Pierre Neis]

Yep...

In coaching large organization, you must highlight that human capital must be reinforced i.e. consolidated as an asset. Here is the point where you must educate the organization by fostering internal competences/expertise instead SLA's. As a former Senior Consultant I saw to often knowledge or organization/business assets owned by external providers: a kidney machine is not a kidney, is a machine.

In my point of view as a coach, we must advise our customers that this is look-alike value but not valuable assets.

Kaizen is inside out!

Pierre E.  NEIS, csp

PMO @ coPROcess S.A. │ Scrum & Lean Coach   

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Meet with me: http://meetwith.me/pierreneis

 

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[Skip La Fetra]

Yves asks:

 

>  what is the response you get when you coach this?

 

Good question -- I get complete agreement from the individuals and their line managers.

The higher up the "business chain" I go, the more factors such as "today's skill-set" and other questions about relevancy to <current> (their words) situation.

 

My take ... the less enlightened, the more an organization works in "today's" short-term needs.  The more enlightened, they work in the "industry" needs and skill-sets.

 

The mindset that you and I share is one of a longer-term resource.  If you only need a "widget" for today-only, it doesn't make sense to hire or retain a "widget-plus".  But those situations are few.

My experience is only one -- there are many in this forum who have far more experience than I do.

 

  - Skip

[Yves Hanoulle]

That's great.

Guess you are better at it then me. most of the time people smile and ignore the remark with their actions.

  
At AYE, people talked about the opposite way:

when people talk about resources:

ask: "what do you mean, you mean fungable meatbased programming, units?"

the few times I tried that, people seem to understand more.

Part of the problem is that in the accountancy systems (and accountancy laws), people are costs.

that is why things like Beyond budgetting are so good for the agile

http://www.amazon.com/Implementing-Beyond-Budgeting-Performance-ebook/dp/B001M60BJQ 

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2012/1/6 Skip La Fetra <Skip.L...@lafetra.com>

Yves asks:

 

>  what is the response you get when you coach this?

 

Good question -- I get complete agreement from the individuals and their line managers.

The higher up the "business chain" I go, the more factors such as "today's skill-set" and other questions about relevancy to <current> (their words) situation.

 

My take ... the less enlightened, the more an organization works in "today's" short-term needs.  The more enlightened, they work in the "industry" needs and skill-sets.

 

The mindset that you and I share is one of a longer-term resource. 

>> part of my solution  is to stop the word resource.

[Pierre Neis]

Beyond budgeting is very inspiring... agree with you

The core problem is understanding senior management issues and business process (sorry!).

One trick that I use often is that my Dev Teams are "Proposal Force" and support Senior Management for their decisions: that works very well.

Another trick for the Dev Teams, never give one proposal but 3: the best, the cheapest, the compromise.

Pierre E.  NEIS, csp

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[George Dinwiddie]

Gustavo,

I think your vision of a PMO is too low-level. You might find Johanna
Rothman's book on Portfolio Management (http://amzn.to/xZEtv6) helpful.

- George

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[Gustavo Cebrian Garcia]

Hello George,

We are talking about the role of a PMO here.

I do not think a lot of people doubts it is necessary to have a good Portfolio Manager for product direction.

It is the role of a PMO the most criticised here.

Does this book speak about both roles?

What do you think of PMO roles?

Thanks.

Gustavo.

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[George Dinwiddie]

Gustavo,

On 1/6/12 4:20 PM, Gustavo Cebrian Garcia wrote:
> Hello George,
>
> We are talking about the role of a PMO here.

To me, PMO means Portfolio Management Office. Some call it Project
Management Office but are really talking about the portfolio of projects.

What does it mean to you?

- George

[Dan Rawsthorne]

Let me just weigh in quickly. The purpose of a PM is to balance a Project's scope/schedule/cost in accordance with the change management plan, based on the realities that are in scope. In other words, the PM is supposed to be agile. Most of them don't know how to be, and I'd rather not see them on scrum teams. I'd like to see the PO managing the scope in order to produce valuable product, and the PM taking the velocity as reality and then balancing the scope at a higher level (defining what is valuable), cost, and schedule accordingly. The PM can be seen as the PO's PO, in some sense. PMs have a useful purpose and mission, but often need to be taught what it is and how to do it. Then, the Portfolio Management guys are another level up, and can be thought of as the PM's PO. Remember that the PO is a role, not a position, and from the Dev Team on up, we could see a chain of POs. from DevLead to PM to Portfolio Manager. My 2 cents,  Dan  ;-)

Dan Rawsthorne, PhD, PMP, CST
Author of Exploring Scrum: the Fundamentals

[miked]

+1
I am really tired hearing people who have not walked in another's
shoes claim there is no value in the path others walk.
I have a growing concern this arrogance going to continue the increase
the schism between small scrum world view and Scrum transforming the
way the world works.

[Pierre Neis]

If a PMO says that XP and TDD are not fitted to Infrastructure and/or Enterprise Projects, then it makes sense to have one.

Agile CoP have to be part of PMO else it's Muda.

Pierre E.  NEIS, csp

Senior Operational Excellence Consultant @ coPROcess S.A. │ Scrum/Lean Coach   

M: +352 / 661 727 867  - Skype: pierre.neis  
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[RonJeffries]

Pierre ...

On Feb 7, 2012, at 1:14 PM, Pierre Neis wrote:

If a PMO says that XP and TDD are not fitted to Infrastructure and/or Enterprise Projects, then it makes sense to have one.

Huh? If a PMO is wrong it makes sense to have one? How is that?

Ron Jeffries

www.XProgramming.com

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[Mark Levison]

Knowing Pierre I suspect a "not" slipped in where he didn't intend it.

Cheers

Mark

[Pierre Neis]

As a PMO I give you +1

PMO's are like developers... to much tittles not enough brain

Pierre E.  NEIS, csp

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