After decades of using note cards in doing my historical research I
have finally decided to enter the modern age and work digitally. I
have looked at a number of database programs and found them either
too complex or unsuited to the task. Both Scribe and Zotero have been
recommended to me. I have 'played' with both a little but now I need
to invest some time in learning how to use one or the other in depth .
Given that they both emanate from the same stable and there does seem
to be some convergence planned between the two which of the two would
best reward the time learning to use it effectively? Suggestions
would be welcome. Is there a parallel on-going development planned for
both programs or is Scribe destined to be subsumed into Zotero?
I don't know if this is still the case, but last April 29th , Elena was asked: * And, most importantly, are there long-term financial resources committed to it [Scribe]?
Elena answered:
I have funding to provide support for existing Scribe users indefinitely and to fix bugs and import/export problems, but not to develop significant new features.
Best, Elena
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 6:31 AM, palombaro <neil.tho...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> After decades of using note cards in doing my historical research I > have finally decided to enter the modern age and work digitally. I > have looked at a number of database programs and found them either > too complex or unsuited to the task. Both Scribe and Zotero have been > recommended to me. I have 'played' with both a little but now I need > to invest some time in learning how to use one or the other in depth . > Given that they both emanate from the same stable and there does seem > to be some convergence planned between the two which of the two would > best reward the time learning to use it effectively? Suggestions > would be welcome. Is there a parallel on-going development planned for > both programs or is Scribe destined to be subsumed into Zotero?
> I don't know if this is still the case, but last April 29th , Elena > was asked: > * And, most importantly, are there long-term financial resources > committed to it [Scribe]?
> Elena answered:
> I have funding to provide support for existing Scribe users > indefinitely and to fix bugs and import/export problems, but not to > develop significant new features.'
Yes, this is still the case.
I should also mention that I'm doing my own research in Zotero now rather than Scribe--I migrated about a year ago. For that reason, I spend whatever time I have for software development on improving Zotero features--as an open source tool, Zotero can be perfected and extended indefinitely.
That said, as the note above states, I'm committed to providing support for existing Scribe users and improving import/export features so people can comfortably migrate to Zotero if/when they choose to do so.
For people who are just starting a new project and looking for a new digital tool, I would definitely recommend Zotero (because of its potential for future development) over Scribe.
> On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 6:31 AM, palombaro > <neil.tho...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> After decades of using note cards in doing my historical research I > have finally decided to enter the modern age and work digitally. I > have looked at a number of database programs and found them either > too complex or unsuited to the task. Both Scribe and Zotero have been > recommended to me. I have 'played' with both a little but now I need > to invest some time in learning how to use one or the other in depth . > Given that they both emanate from the same stable and there does seem > to be some convergence planned between the two which of the two would > best reward the time learning to use it effectively? Suggestions > would be welcome. Is there a parallel on-going development planned for > both programs or is Scribe destined to be subsumed into Zotero?
> On Mar 17, 2008, at 6:16 AM, Gary McCaman wrote:
>> I don't know if this is still the case, but last April 29th , Elena >> was asked: >> * And, most importantly, are there long-term financial resources >> committed to it [Scribe]?
>> Elena answered:
>> I have funding to provide support for existing Scribe users >> indefinitely and to fix bugs and import/export problems, but not to >> develop significant new features.'
> Yes, this is still the case.
> I should also mention that I'm doing my own research in Zotero now > rather than Scribe--I migrated about a year ago. For that reason, I > spend whatever time I have for software development on improving > Zotero features--as an open source tool, Zotero can be perfected and > extended indefinitely.
> That said, as the note above states, I'm committed to providing > support for existing Scribe users and improving import/export features > so people can comfortably migrate to Zotero if/when they choose to do > so.
> For people who are just starting a new project and looking for a new > digital tool, I would definitely recommend Zotero (because of its > potential for future development) over Scribe.
> Best, > Elena
>> Best, >> Elena
>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 6:31 AM, palombaro >> <neil.tho...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> After decades of using note cards in doing my historical research I >> have finally decided to enter the modern age and work digitally. I >> have looked at a number of database programs and found them either >> too complex or unsuited to the task. Both Scribe and Zotero have been >> recommended to me. I have 'played' with both a little but now I need >> to invest some time in learning how to use one or the other in >> depth . >> Given that they both emanate from the same stable and there does >> seem >> to be some convergence planned between the two which of the two >> would >> best reward the time learning to use it effectively? Suggestions >> would be welcome. Is there a parallel on-going development planned >> for >> both programs or is Scribe destined to be subsumed into Zotero?
> Elena: For someone about to migrate from Scribe to Zotero, where is > the best place to look for instructions on how to make the shift?
> On Mar 17, 2008, at 8:22 AM, Elena Razlogova wrote:
>> On Mar 17, 2008, at 6:16 AM, Gary McCaman wrote:
>>> I don't know if this is still the case, but last April 29th , Elena >>> was asked: >>> * And, most importantly, are there long-term financial resources >>> committed to it [Scribe]?
>>> Elena answered:
>>> I have funding to provide support for existing Scribe users >>> indefinitely and to fix bugs and import/export problems, but not to >>> develop significant new features.'
>> Yes, this is still the case.
>> I should also mention that I'm doing my own research in Zotero now >> rather than Scribe--I migrated about a year ago. For that reason, I >> spend whatever time I have for software development on improving >> Zotero features--as an open source tool, Zotero can be perfected and >> extended indefinitely.
>> That said, as the note above states, I'm committed to providing >> support for existing Scribe users and improving import/export >> features >> so people can comfortably migrate to Zotero if/when they choose to do >> so.
>> For people who are just starting a new project and looking for a new >> digital tool, I would definitely recommend Zotero (because of its >> potential for future development) over Scribe.
>> Best, >> Elena
>>> Best, >>> Elena
>>> On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 6:31 AM, palombaro >>> <neil.tho...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> After decades of using note cards in doing my historical research I >>> have finally decided to enter the modern age and work digitally. I >>> have looked at a number of database programs and found them either >>> too complex or unsuited to the task. Both Scribe and Zotero have >>> been >>> recommended to me. I have 'played' with both a little but now I need >>> to invest some time in learning how to use one or the other in >>> depth . >>> Given that they both emanate from the same stable and there does >>> seem >>> to be some convergence planned between the two which of the two >>> would >>> best reward the time learning to use it effectively? Suggestions >>> would be welcome. Is there a parallel on-going development planned >>> for >>> both programs or is Scribe destined to be subsumed into Zotero?
> On Mar 17, 2008, at 6:16 AM, Gary McCaman wrote:
> > I don't know if this is still the case, but last April 29th , Elena
> > was asked:
> > * And, most importantly, are there long-term financial resources
> > committed to it [Scribe]?
> > Elena answered:
> > I have funding to provide support for existing Scribe users
> > indefinitely and to fix bugs and import/export problems, but not to
> > develop significant new features.'
> Yes, this is still the case.
> I should also mention that I'm doing my own research in Zotero now
> rather than Scribe--I migrated about a year ago. For that reason, I
> spend whatever time I have for software development on improving
> Zotero features--as an open source tool, Zotero can be perfected and
> extended indefinitely.
> That said, as the note above states, I'm committed to providing
> support for existing Scribe users and improving import/export features
> so people can comfortably migrate to Zotero if/when they choose to do
> so.
> For people who are just starting a new project and looking for a new
> digital tool, I would definitely recommend Zotero (because of its
> potential for future development) over Scribe.
> Best,
> Elena
> > Best,
> > Elena
> > On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 6:31 AM, palombaro
> > <neil.tho...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > After decades of using note cards in doing my historical research I
> > have finally decided to enter the modern age and work digitally. I
> > have looked at a number of database programs and found them either
> > too complex or unsuited to the task. Both Scribe and Zotero have been
> > recommended to me. I have 'played' with both a little but now I need
> > to invest some time in learning how to use one or the other in depth .
> > Given that they both emanate from the same stable and there does seem
> > to be some convergence planned between the two which of the two would
> > best reward the time learning to use it effectively? Suggestions
> > would be welcome. Is there a parallel on-going development planned for
> > both programs or is Scribe destined to be subsumed into Zotero?
> For people who are just starting a new project and looking for a new > digital tool, I would definitely recommend Zotero (because of its > potential for future development) over Scribe.
> Best, > Elena
I like Zotero and decided to try it over Scribe and ndxCards. However, the very first thing I ran into was the size allowed for a note. I often have long quotes which I then work with later. I entered such and when I went to print, most of the note was gone. Everything after the point where the scroll bar appeared was gone. I don't know if this has changed, but this was in the fall and this is why I am still playing between Scribe and ndxCards.
I didn't realize that there was a size limit for the note card. I too would find this difficult to work with. Elizabeth any idea as to the size limit you ran into?
Morgan, Elizabeth Ann wrote: >> For people who are just starting a new project and looking for a new >> digital tool, I would definitely recommend Zotero (because of its >> potential for future development) over Scribe.
>> Best, >> Elena
> I like Zotero and decided to try it over Scribe and ndxCards. However, > the very first thing I ran into was the size allowed for a note. I often > have long quotes which I then work with later. I entered such and when I > went to print, most of the note was gone. Everything after the point > where the scroll bar appeared was gone. I don't know if this has changed, > but this was in the fall and this is why I am still playing between Scribe > and ndxCards.
No, I don't. I just know that I was typing with Zotero at the bottom of the screen and from the point at which the scroll appeared -- the point at which my note no longer fit the originally given box -- all info was lost. All cards I had done that day that went over were lost. I have not used Zotero for notes since then, just for quick source downloads.
If this were fixed, I might reconsider, given I don't have Framemaker or Filemaker 8.something, or whatever the software is that Scribe relies on. I can't afford it, either, so I lack full functionality in Scribe. In essence, Scribe is not fully free for me.
When I first tried Scribe way back, it was "not so good," as my niece would say. I found ndxCards and paid for that. It now has a USB version which I got for a very low cost because I already had a license. However, I discovered that ndxCards does not play well with EndNote and Word when I tried to move my sources over for my dissertation proposal. It was a nightmare.
I figured I was stuck and thus started keeping notes in the ndxCards and resources in EndNote. Then, this fall I saw a notice about Scribe being updated and was pleased with the changes from my way-ago past. However, as I said, I don't have full functionality and I also had by this time lost my notes in Zotero, so I'm back to bouncing around. Now, I have three note programs going instead of one. Not ideal by any means.
Elizabeth
I didn't realize that there was a size limit for the note card. I too
> would find this difficult to work with. Elizabeth any idea as to the > size limit you ran into?
> mies
> Morgan, Elizabeth Ann wrote: >>> For people who are just starting a new project and looking for a new >>> digital tool, I would definitely recommend Zotero (because of its >>> potential for future development) over Scribe.
>>> Best, >>> Elena
>> I like Zotero and decided to try it over Scribe and ndxCards. However, >> the very first thing I ran into was the size allowed for a note. I >> often >> have long quotes which I then work with later. I entered such and when >> I >> went to print, most of the note was gone. Everything after the point >> where the scroll bar appeared was gone. I don't know if this has >> changed, >> but this was in the fall and this is why I am still playing between >> Scribe >> and ndxCards.
> No, I don't. I just know that I was typing with Zotero at the > bottom of > the screen and from the point at which the scroll appeared -- the > point at > which my note no longer fit the originally given box -- all info was > lost. > All cards I had done that day that went over were lost. I have not > used > Zotero for notes since then, just for quick source downloads.
There was a bug like this in Zotero way back which had been fixed months ago. I haven't lost a word since then. I just tried to print a note of 3,489 words and it worked without a problem. You can also enter the note in a separate resizable window.
> If this were fixed, I might reconsider, given I don't have > Framemaker or > Filemaker 8.something, or whatever the software is that Scribe > relies on. > I can't afford it, either, so I lack full functionality in Scribe. In > essence, Scribe is not fully free for me.
There is no Scribe functionality lost if you don't use Filemaker 8. What you lose is ability to modify the database or interface or to see "'under the hood" of various scripts and layouts--you'd have to be an experienced Filemaker developer to use those features. There is no additional notetaking or citation functionality.
> When I first tried Scribe way back, it was "not so good," as my niece > would say. I found ndxCards and paid for that. It now has a USB > version > which I got for a very low cost because I already had a license. > However, > I discovered that ndxCards does not play well with EndNote and Word > when I > tried to move my sources over for my dissertation proposal. It was a > nightmare.
> I figured I was stuck and thus started keeping notes in the ndxCards > and > resources in EndNote. Then, this fall I saw a notice about Scribe > being > updated and was pleased with the changes from my way-ago past. > However, > as I said, I don't have full functionality and I also had by this time > lost my notes in Zotero, so I'm back to bouncing around. Now, I have > three note programs going instead of one. Not ideal by any means.
> Elizabeth
> I didn't realize that there was a size limit for the note card. I too >> would find this difficult to work with. Elizabeth any idea as to the >> size limit you ran into?
>> mies
>> Morgan, Elizabeth Ann wrote: >>>> For people who are just starting a new project and looking for a >>>> new >>>> digital tool, I would definitely recommend Zotero (because of its >>>> potential for future development) over Scribe.
>>>> Best, >>>> Elena
>>> I like Zotero and decided to try it over Scribe and ndxCards. >>> However, >>> the very first thing I ran into was the size allowed for a note. I >>> often >>> have long quotes which I then work with later. I entered such and >>> when >>> I >>> went to print, most of the note was gone. Everything after the >>> point >>> where the scroll bar appeared was gone. I don't know if this has >>> changed, >>> but this was in the fall and this is why I am still playing between >>> Scribe >>> and ndxCards.
>>> Elizabeth >>> elizabeth.a.mor...@vanderbilt.edu
> There was a bug like this in Zotero way back which had been fixed > months ago.
I will retry
> There is no Scribe functionality lost if you don't use Filemaker 8.
Actually, I wanted to set up some toolbars and some other features that I received error messages for. I sent a message asking about it and was told I had to have the updated Filemaker to access those features.
> Actually, I wanted to set up some toolbars and some other features > that I > received error messages for. I sent a message asking about it and was > told I had to have the updated Filemaker to access those features.
Ah, I found your earlier message:
> When I try certain features, I receive a message indicating > that the feature is only available in advanced mode. I cannot, > however, find any reference to advanced mode. How does one choose > this setting?
You can add existing buttons to a toolbar, you just can't create new buttons and new toolbars--that is the same functionality as you'd have, say, in a Firefox toolbar. Adding new buttons and deleting/ adding toolbars requires understanding of Filemaker and the relational table structure in Scribe and it's possible to break Scribe if you don't know what you're doing and delete something accidentally--that's why it's part of "Advanced access."
I came to Scribe after a long search for a notetaking program that was
better my home-made Word template for taking notes. Using the template
I would complete the note and then file it in an appropriate folder on
particular topics. I had a place for keywords, and every note was
footnoted. I could work as a historian and not a collector of Internet
scraps, but it was clumsy.
Over the years I have checked out many note-taking programs,
including, Circus Ponies, DevonNote, EZNote, iNotePad, Mori,
SuperNotecard, Jotz, NoteList, TinderBox, StickyBrain, TopXNotes,
Boswell, Tao, DevonThink, NoteTaker, Parsnips, and others that died
along the way. Probably the best was Tao, but outliners are not my
style. The most versatile and powerful was DevonThink Pro. The
simplest and fastest and most useable was Parsnips. Most of these
commercial and shareware programs are so-called "data-buckets" for
the storage of masses of undifferentiated articles, graphics,
snippets, web-pages, etc. None were designed for historians, with a
place for source citation (including publiication data, page number,
etc.) or, for documents, the location, type, collection, etc. Some had
the convenient feature of an automatic date stamp for the time the
note was taken.
Then another scholar recommended Scribe and I found this forum. I
agreed with every sentence of every entry or clearly understood the
basis for questionings. I found the tone amazingly civil and specific
to historical research.
Scribe seemed to be just what I've been looking for, and I even owned
FileMaker 8.x.
But alas, as I read the forum entries I concluded that Scribe3 is a
dead program, that is, it is dependent on the generosity of one person—
who recommends Zotero. All historians seeking a digital solution must
be deeply thankful for people like Elena, but if she recommends
Zotero, then that is is the way to go. Particularly compelling is her
remark that "For people who are just starting a new project and
looking for a new digital tool, I would definitely recommend Zotero
(because of its potential for future development) over Scribe. " It
is open source.
As the forum entries make clear, however, Zotero is not designed for
historians, but for people who do "research" by downloading documents
or snippets from the Internet, which can be an unreliable source, and
for all the blessings of the Gutenberg enterprise and Google
reproductions, and Lexis, and JStor etc, historians have to encounter
the primary sources where they are found, and they are mostly text.
Still, in checking out Zotero I found some really cool conveniences,
like the automatic downloading of a citation of a book. For me the
decisive factor will be the ease of writing notes (not copying
undigested snippets) and having them documented (Zotero has no place
for page number, one of the most important single pieces of data in a
citation). But I wil do the "ztour" and the "zdemo" on the Zotero web
site, even if the tone of the information does not sound scholarly.
Thanks for all your incisive and specific posts.
Zotero might be worth a tango.
On Mar 21, 5:25 am, Elena Razlogova <elena.razlog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Actually, I wanted to set up some toolbars and some other features
> > that I
> > received error messages for. I sent a message asking about it and was
> > told I had to have the updated Filemaker to access those features.
> Ah, I found your earlier message:
> > When I try certain features, I receive a message indicating
> > that the feature is only available in advanced mode. I cannot,
> > however, find any reference to advanced mode. How does one choose
> > this setting?
> You can add existing buttons to a toolbar, you just can't create new
> buttons and new toolbars--that is the same functionality as you'd
> have, say, in a Firefox toolbar. Adding new buttons and deleting/
> adding toolbars requires understanding of Filemaker and the relational
> table structure in Scribe and it's possible to break Scribe if you
> don't know what you're doing and delete something accidentally--that's
> why it's part of "Advanced access."
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