I'm sure I'll catch hell for this, but... let's vote reef fish off sci.stat.math
Chris Chiasson
Let's just cut to the chase. If it were possible to "vote someone off
the sci.stat.math island", or at least have him (assumption) censured
for repeated bad behavior -- would you vote Reef Fish off and/or have
him censured?
I would, not that it's possible.
It will be interesting to see if lots of "people" who have never posted
show up to support him. Let's give it a month from today and then
analyze the posts by author history on usenet (message headers will be
important too).
What say ye?
"Luis A. Afonso"
**** Forget the thread entitled "sci.stat.math.moderated?" thread. Let's just cut to the chase. If it were possible to "vote someone off the sci.stat.math island", or at least have him (assumption) censured for repeated bad behavior -- would you vote Reef Fish off and/or have him censured? I would, not that it's possible. It will be interesting to see if lots of "people" who have never posted show up to support him. Let's give it a month from today and then analyze the posts by author history on usenet (message headers will be important too). What say ye? ***
My response:
Let´s see : I am curious too.
_____licas (Luis A. Afonso)
Reef Fish
> Forget the thread entitled "sci.stat.math.moderated ?" thread.
>
> Let's just cut to the chase.
> What say ye?
To your subject. How do you do that?
-- Bob.
Reef Fish
Chris Chiasson wrote:
> Forget the thread entitled "sci.stat.math.moderated ?" thread.
>
> Let's just cut to the chase.
>
I already gave you a short answer earlier.
This is a longer post which should show YOU what a Clueless Newbie
you are in the sci.stat.math group, to be making the NOISE that you
were making by starting this new subject.
Make sure you read that, and read that VERY CAREFULLY.
-- Bob.
Chris Chiasson
Are you going to "vote"? I am hoping you will, but of course you don't
have to if you don't want to.
Reef Fish
Chris Chiasson,
You're even more clueless than I had thought.
-- Reef FIsh Bob
espyrian
revive my comatose statistical "skills" off life support). At first I
wondered "who the hell is this troll?" But since then I have concluded
that there a few people here whose statistical knowledge & experience I
respect more than Professor (retired) Robert "Reef Fish" Ling.
Having said that, there are, of course, plenty of things to hate about
Reef Fish's posting style. His combatative, often abusive, nature, his
use of CAPS, the kind of dumb use of tinyurl and his apparent
reluctance to proof read are all extremely annoying, but so what?
Whenever I read something that pisses me off on the Internet I thank my
deity of choice that I live in a country that affords me the freedom to
do so. (On a related note, why does Reef Fish dislike us Aussies so
much?)
OTOH, it's not like humility is beyond him. On the two or three
occassions where I've observed Reef Fish caught in an error he has
admitted it. Simply and without ego, "I was wrong. I stand corrected".
I urge others here to do the same. It seems to me that many posters
here only get into trouble with Reef Fish after trying to fight their
way out of a hopeless situation.
I, for one, support Reef Fish. When his posts aren't informative they
are at least highly entertaining. I wish him a long future on usenet.
I'll never call him my friend but I may call him my teacher.
"Luis A. Afonso"
____licas (Luis A. Afonso)
Reef Fish
> NO! I "rejoined" the sci.stat groups in November last year (trying to
> revive my comatose statistical "skills" off life support). At first I
> wondered "who the hell is this troll?" But since then I have concluded
> that there a few people here whose statistical knowledge & experience I
> respect more than Professor (retired) Robert "Reef Fish" Ling.
Not that I need any support from anyone on the silly proposal in the
OP's subject, I do appreciate the kind words of "espirian" in this
post,
his dislikes notwithstanding.
>
> Having said that, there are, of course, plenty of things to hate about
> Reef Fish's posting style.
You're not the first, by a long shot, and definitely will not be the
last.
In fact you may be about the thousandth person who had said that.
Since it's someone's OPINION, it's always right for HIM; I shall
only supply some reasons for MY style which some/many dislike.
> His combatative, often abusive, nature,
"Combatative"? Ah, you don't use a spell checker either. :-)
Combative, yes -- whenever I am challanged for some factually
correct statements I made -- the more the challenger comes back
with his torch, the more combative I get, and you might correctly
characterize what I say then, as "abusive", because I do get
ill-supported and invalid challenges often. And I am fond of
abusing Thugs and Muggers.
I have signed myself as the "Archivist" and "Kung Fu Master",
two well characterized internet "Flame Warriors":
http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/archivist.htm
http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/kungfumaster.htm
> his use of CAPS,
As I've explained many times before, I use them as my ITALICS
for emphasis, as well as to save two keystrokes each time I use
them, instead of _italics_ or *italics*. Folks complain about my
"rants" already, on posts such as this. The use of CAPS save
at least hundreds of keystrokes.
It has become my STYLE. For the short attention span of many
ng readers, the CAPS draw their attention much better than _caps_
or leaving out all emphasis in the prose.
I had said in
http://www.travelnicety.com/posting.php?mode=quote&p=4026
"I must confess that I am actually James F. Kilpatrick (the nationally
syndicated wordsmith, who teaches correct English usage in his
columns "Crimes, Misdemeanors, Faux Pas,and Peccadillos" on
bad usage). He (ooops, I mean I), uses CAPS for EMPHASIS
even when the newspaper can print italics, IN italics."
I also said in that same post,
"I am also Dave Barry. He is a Pulitzer Prize winning Humor
Columnist. He uses CAPS a LOT in his weekly syndicated
columns, for the same purpose of EMPHASIS, and he has italics
at his disposal too."
> the kind of dumb use of tinyurl
I have encountered numerous times long URLs that wrap around
a second or third line, and only the first line is clickable, so that
I had to cut and past the URL before I can read the reference in
my internet browser.
tinyurl is godsend to keep the above from happening, used to
HELP the READERS. Anyone who uses a tinyurl (for an original
reference) also has the long version, and has to make a special
effort to make the url tiny, for the convenience of the readers!
It's never a "dumb use". It's the "dumb user" who hates it.
> and his apparent reluctance to proof read are all extremely annoying,
Guilty as charged! I rarely proofread, and I don't use any spell-
checker because I post from groups.google.com has no spell-
checker. But my typos and grammatical errors are almost always
"inconsequential". Readers wouldn't be misled by them and they
give Spelling and Grammar Cops something to complain and flame
when they ran out of substance to discuss, or rebut.
See
"A Treatese on key MISSPELLINGS and inconsequential TYPOS"
in http://tinyurl.com/84d9f
OR in
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.travel.air/msg/d7ba035f284cb1d0?hl=en&
<Note. A reader pointed out I misspelled "treatise" in the subject.
:-)
Guilty as charged. But surely no one was misled by the typo.>
I am almost as prolific a ng and list poster as Paul Erdos is a writer
or mathematical papers. In these recreational or informal forums,
I don't spend time on my English. Substance over form. When I
write serious papers for publication, I do write carefully, and my
occasional slips are always caught by copywriters and editors.
When I co-author with meticulous writers, such as John Pratt of
Harvard, he sometimes went over the phone for 30 minutes on
some single line, to polish on how best to say it, when I couldn't
see any difference in his highly refined choices. :-)
So there!
Those are the reasons for my STYLE, or madness, as some say.
> but so what?
> Whenever I read something that pisses me off on the Internet I thank my
> deity of choice that I live in a country that affords me the freedom to
> do so. (On a related note, why does Reef Fish dislike us Aussies so
> much?)
Au contraire! Those several Aussies I dislike are those who butted
in my posts to make nonsensible or pointless interruptions. That
would be a serious mistaken stereotyping of those few I flame --
when they deserved to be flamed.
I also intensely dislike a particular Portuguese, lots of 'Merkins
and Brits, Poms, Frogs, etc. <BG>
Some of my very BEST friends are Aussies. So much so that I go
o Sydney just to take them to the Tower Restaurant
http://www.seesydneycard.com/attraction.do?id=43
for the buffet of emu, kangaroo, and other Aussie game meats. :-)
I also own a copy of 527-page Dunkum's Dictionary (A Ripper Guide
to Aussie English) so that I can speak just like them bloody blokes. :)
>
> OTOH, it's not like humility is beyond him. On the two or three
> occassions where I've observed Reef Fish caught in an error he has
> admitted it. Simply and without ego, "I was wrong. I stand corrected".
You got that right! I don't make many errors. I think you caught
ALL of those I made this year. :-) I do exactly as you said,
when corrected. I don't Mouth Dance or waste bandwidth
making excuses for myself.
> I urge others here to do the same. It seems to me that many posters
> here only get into trouble with Reef Fish after trying to fight their
> way out of a hopeless situation.
Very astute observation. That's exactly where I get into NOISY
battles with them, playing my Archivist and Kung Fu Master personna.
i also look like the late Pat Morita, who was the famous Karate
Instructor in Karate Kid movies -- so much so that even stangers
in Cozumel call me Mr. Miyagi, or just Miyagi. My internet posting
gives me the feeling sometimes that I AM Miyagi fight and
kicking a gang of thugs and muggers all at once.
>
> I, for one, support Reef Fish. When his posts aren't informative they
> are at least highly entertaining. I wish him a long future on usenet.
Thank you, "espirian", for your insighful comments and support.
I wish a long future on your short start.
> I'll never call him my friend but I may call him my teacher.
That may be your hasty opinion because of your short exposure to
my ng existence. Most of my student whom I characterize as
"tree stumps disguised as college students" hate both ME and the
subject of Statistics. But some of my students are among my
best friends.
In any event, your post gave me a good opportunity to go through
your dirty laundry list to give my explanation of why I am what I am.
One thing you didn't complain was my frequent reference to what
I had already posted or said -- that's because I have written about
so many things against "Frequently Uttered Complaints" or other
matters of substance, that there's no point in re-writing the same.
Subject: I yam what I yam, and that's all that I yam!
"I yam what I yam, that's all that I yam, Reef Fish the Man
of a Thousand Interests. Boop Boop."
Nah, I won't bother to proofread this post. It's too long. :-)
-- Bob.
Russell...@wdn.com
I largely agree. There are relatively few knowledgeable people
still willing to share their knowledge in many Usenet NGs these
days. I'm not willing to vote any of them off even if I could.
Cheers,
Russell
Anon.
> espyrian wrote:
<snip>
>> but so what?
>> Whenever I read something that pisses me off on the Internet I thank my
>> deity of choice that I live in a country that affords me the freedom to
>> do so. (On a related note, why does Reef Fish dislike us Aussies so
>> much?)
>
> Au contraire! Those several Aussies I dislike are those who butted
> in my posts to make nonsensible or pointless interruptions. That
> would be a serious mistaken stereotyping of those few I flame --
> when they deserved to be flamed.
>
> I also intensely dislike a particular Portuguese, lots of 'Merkins
> and Brits, Poms, Frogs, etc. <BG>
>
Bob
--
Bob O'Hara
Department of Mathematics and Statistics
P.O. Box 68 (Gustaf Hällströmin katu 2b)
FIN-00014 University of Helsinki
Finland
Telephone: +358-9-191 51479
Mobile: +358 50 599 0540
Fax: +358-9-191 51400
WWW: http://www.RNI.Helsinki.FI/~boh/
Journal of Negative Results - EEB: www.jnr-eeb.org
joeu...@hotmail.com
> There are relatively few knowledgeable people still willing to
> share their knowledge in many Usenet NGs these days.
You can say that again! Many people are too quick to
dismiss legitimate questions as "homework assignments",
as if that's a bad thing in the first place. Others convolute
their answers, change the subject or seem simply incapable
of reading between the lines, debating semantics instead
of providing helpful insights to the obvious gist of the question.
I was surprised to hear praise for "Reef Fish". If he is ever
helpful, I would not know. I stopped reading his postings
long ago. Perhaps I should give him a fair "hearing" again
just in case he has something helpful to offer once in a blue
moon. But generally, I ignore anyone who so often stoops
to ad hominem attacks, no matter how good they might be,
hoping that a decent person will step up to the plate instead.
However, as you say, that never seems to happen these days.
In any case, the idea of "voting someone off" of an
unmoderated newsgroup is ludicrous. It usually just
encourages the miscreant to post more, getting the notoriety
that his overblown ego seems to crave so much.
Thus, the less said in this thread, the better. That goes for
all other off-topic threads, especially ad hominem attacks.
beli...@aol.com
<snip>
> In any case, the idea of "voting someone off" of an
> unmoderated newsgroup is ludicrous. It usually just
> encourages the miscreant to post more, getting the notoriety
> that his overblown ego seems to crave so much.
Google Groups has recently introduced the ability to rate Usenet
messages (1 to 5), and the average rating for a message (if any) is
displayed on Google Groups. This feature is not being used too much at
present, but several messages in this newsgroup, from the people one
would expect, have received low ratings. If more people use this
feature, and if Google in the future allows one to filter out messages
below a specified threshold (similar to Slashdot), this would be a
practical way of "voting someone off".
There is a moderated Google (not Usenet) group "Statistics"
http://groups.google.com/group/statistics?lnk=srgb&hl=en to which only
members can post, but which anyone can join. Most of the messages in
that group are actually about statistics.
Chris Chiasson
One problem with the current implementation is that ratings are
averaged to obtain a rating for a thread; even though the thread could
have good responses, it will be rated lowly overall if it has several
low-rated posts. Since we're talking about the big G, we know they
could implement a better system if there were more data to work with.
Slashdot's system is pretty robust with its' large userbase (though the
overall direction of the site in recent years leaves something to be
desired).
Will a stats usenet group ever have enough users participating in an
add-on moderation system to be effective?
"Luis A. Afonso"
_Those that have really time to spend in this job.
_Those that are not so mad (or else a too big ego) that thinks that thinks itself the unique right, always right, all the others wrong (human capability).
______licas (Luis A. Afonso)
Chris Chiasson
"Luis A. Afonso"
licas
Chris Chiasson
and let it go.
"Luis A. Afonso"
____licas (Luis A. Afonso)
"Luis A. Afonso"
Simply because Bob does not care to support his statements on truth, fairness is not in his lexicon. And he is self-indulgent - in an immense scale - with his prejudicing thoughts about the persons he met. He is completely unable to see when (and how) is ridiculous and emphatically unfair.
______licas (Luis A. Afonso)
"Luis A. Afonso"
"Luis A. Afonso"
_____licas (Luis A. Afonso)
"Luis A. Afonso"
He accused me, again, that I copy text - books *ipsis verbis* which is a lie and a shameless slander.
He repeatable state that my programs are wrong but he is unable to point out where and why they are.
Wish the Readers vote if we want to keep forever such a person among us?
____licas (Luis A. Afonso)
Lou Thraki
Luis A. Afonso wrote:
> IF we, the Readers, do not stop Bob we cannot hope any profit from
> Sci. Stat. Math. I suspect that this is the main goal he wish to attain:
> to drive away those that have something useful to share.
That's funny. I've got the feeling that it is actually you who is
trying
to do that right now.
"Luis A. Afonso"
Lou Thraki wrote:
*** Luis A. Afonso wrote:
> IF we, the Readers, do not stop Bob we cannot hope any profit from Sci. Stat. Math. I suspect that this is the main goal he wish to attain: to drive away those that have something useful to share.
*** That's funny. I've got the feeling that it is actually you who is trying to do that right now.***
My response:
That’s very fun: I do not suspect (ever) that you are irremeably toady.
______licas (Luis A. Afonso)
yurra
"Luis A. Afonso" wrote:
Afonso, you moron.
What does "irremeably" mean?
Yurra Moron
Reef Fish
yurra wrote:
> "Luis A. Afonso" wrote:
> Afonso, you moron.
> What does "irremeably" mean?
It means Afonso probably looked for the word "incurably" from
his ancient English dictionary to have come up with the word
"irremediably" and he was so exasperated over Lou Thraki's
insightful remark that Afonso dropped two letters ("di") from the
word he had just looked up in the dictionary.
-- Bob.