Re: Great ISS story
snidely
Pat Flannery wrote:
> I couldn't make this one up.
> Alex Pachenko (of Soviet/Russian space and aviation collectibles fame)
> lives in West Hills, California, which is north of Los Angeles. On
> September 28th, a wildfire started in the Bell Canyon/West Hills area
> and started moving toward Alex's house.
> Alex had to evacuate with what little he could carry of his wonderful
> collection of space memorabilia.
> ...but Alex was not alone in this time of crisis; for high above his
> head was Alex's friend, cosmonaut Sergei Krikalev- aboard the ISS.
> Sergei looked downwards, saw the fire, and realized it was near where
> Alex's house was located... so he gave him a call to comfort him and
> offer his best wishes.
> All turned out well; and when Alex returned the next day he found that
> his property had sustained only minor damage, and the space memorabilia
> was intact.
> Now, is that one great story, or what?
> http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=124&products_id=2542
>
> Pat
Pat Flannery
snidely wrote:
>Perhaps Pat can explain why he posted this everywhere *but* ss.station?
>
>
Pat has his hands full just keeping up with .history and .policy,
although I should have thought of .station now that you mention it.
Pat
snidely
Pat Flannery wrote:
> snidely wrote:
>
> >Perhaps Pat can explain why he posted this everywhere *but* ss.station?
>
> Pat has his hands full
Hands?
> just keeping up with .history and .policy,
> although I should have thought of .station now that you mention it.
I only read .policy when the other groups are too slow...kinda like
drinking antifreeze when you can't get the Jack Daniels.
It's been a little slow getting news about the Elektron repairs
following P19 on .station, though. Nobody let anything slip until
Jacques did the weekly status report.
/dps
Jim Oberg
It's impossible for me to believe this could have happened.
"snidely" <Snide...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128471967....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Pat Flannery
Jim Oberg wrote:
>It's impossible for me to believe this could have happened.
>
>
>
>
>
Well, check with Alex on it:
apanc...@earthlink.net
I imagine one could also check the ISS communications logs to see if
there was a phone call.
Pat
Jim Oberg
More to the point, what human eyeball could resolve that
location delta, through smoke, haze and clouds?
I'm astonished the self-evident implausibilities of the
claim didn't raise suspicions immediately.
Gosh, I take a two week trip to Russia and the group
is overcome by cosmocredulity.
"Pat Flannery" <fla...@daktel.com> wrote in message
news:11kamdv...@corp.supernews.com...
Herb Schaltegger
(in article <POe1f.4624$0c....@tornado.texas.rr.com>):
> Gosh, I take a two week trip to Russia and the group
> is overcome by cosmocredulity.
Since we are all JimO, that must mean that while you were on your trip,
YOU were overcome by cosmocredulity and the effects spread through the
quantum foam to affect all of us (who are really all you).
--
"Fame may be fleeting but obscurity is forever." ~Anonymous
"I believe as little as possible and know as much as I can."
~Todd Stuart Phillips
<www.angryherb.net>
Jim Logajan
> What 'phone call'?
No reference to "phone" in Alex's account. Entire account appears to be in
one brief sentence:
"Sergei Krikalev noticed fire from board of station and called with words
of support."
> More to the point, what human eyeball could resolve that
> location delta, through smoke, haze and clouds?
You're a journalist, or at least an author of non-fiction, so check with
the original sources. This is Usenet and if you want opinion you've come to
the right place. My opinion:
Implausible, but not impossible. One possible scenario: Sergei may very
well have heard of the fires from news accounts, known Alex lived in the
area, and looked for smoke plumes on the next pass later that day that came
closest. (Do they have any scopes or binoculars on the ISS?) Seeing the
amount of smoke in the general area may have nudged him into sending words
of support.
> I'm astonished the self-evident implausibilities of the
> claim didn't raise suspicions immediately.
The story has grown in the telling - to be sure - and implausible elements
added.
Pat Flannery
Jim Oberg wrote:
>What 'phone call'?
>
>
This phone call:
http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=124&products_id=2542
"September 28, 2005.Big fire started in Bell Canyon-West Hills area one
mile North-West from my West Hills house.Within couple hours time period
fire was very close. It was was almost impossible to see anything
outside backyard, but flames, smoke and very difficult to breath.Of
course, it was not enough time to evacuate entire business and we left
house with no hope to see it again.Sergei Krikalev noticed fire from
board of station and called with words of support.Several friends came
over to help evacuate at least some most important artifacts from my
aerospace collection.
Several firefighters on the ground,and also helicopters and planes
continued to work in very difficult conditions of hill side area, and we
were lucky to see our house safe next morning with just some minor
property damage.Same lucky day October 1, Valeriy Tokarev and team
started their mission to the ISS on orbit.It will take couple weeks to
clean everything and to start work again soon.
Thanks to all for expressing concerns and help during these difficult days."
Pat
snidely
Jim Logajan wrote:
[...]
> "Sergei Krikalev noticed fire from board of station and called with words
> of support."
>
> > More to the point, what human eyeball could resolve that
> > location delta, through smoke, haze and clouds?
>
> You're a journalist, or at least an author of non-fiction, so check with
> the original sources. This is Usenet and if you want opinion you've come to
> the right place. My opinion:
>
> Implausible, but not impossible. One possible scenario: Sergei may very
> well have heard of the fires from news accounts, known Alex lived in the
> area, and looked for smoke plumes on the next pass later that day that came
> closest. (Do they have any scopes or binoculars on the ISS?) Seeing the
> amount of smoke in the general area may have nudged him into sending words
> of support.
To be sure they imaging apparatus with sufficient resolution to be able
to pick out campus-size areas...see the ISS photo pages that include
JPL, for instance.
And they have imaged smoke plumes from previous fires (including the
Bandon fire in Oregon last year, but that one was a lot larger), and
the plume from the WTC.
The questionable part would be in being able to pick out and recognize
an individual house.
/dps
Pat Flannery
Jim Oberg wrote:
>
>I'm astonished the self-evident implausibilities of the
>claim didn't raise suspicions immediately.
>
>Gosh, I take a two week trip to Russia and the group
>is overcome by cosmocredulity.
>
>
>
Sergei knows Alex Pachenko (Alex knows most of the cosmonauts, and has
lots of merchandise available signed by them:
http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=33&PHPSESSID=26639cb304daed8a6201a43a4dde0861
)
...and some have come to visit him in California, so they know where he
lives.
I assume scuttlebutt got up to the ISS about the California wildfires
near L.A. and they probably had a gander at the smoke from them via
binoculars from the ISS as they passed over California on one of their
orbits.
Realizing that Alex lived near where the fires were occurring, Sergei
called him to see what was going on.
I don't see what's so far-fetched about that- it wasn't like Sergei
looked out the window and saw flames creeping toward Alex's house and
could see through his bedroom window that Alex was asleep, so he called
up to tell him to grab all the signed N-1 models* and Russian B-2 clone
ashtrays and get his rear the hell out of there. :-)
Here's a photo of Alex with cosmonauts Sergei Krikalev and Alexander
Serebrov: http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog/images/al/33/07171544.jpg
* Including this beauty:
http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24_53&products_id=2426&PHPSESSID=26639cb304daed8a6201a43a4dde0861
Pat
hop
> house with no hope to see it again.Sergei Krikalev noticed fire from
> board of station and called with words of support.
Doesn't say phone. More likely a HAM contact, although they do have
some IP phone capability, and must have the ability to relay email as
well. If Pachenko knows Krikalev personally, it wouldn't be at all
surprising if they have regular contacts.
And "noticed" could mean "head about fire in that general area from
news or MCC" or "noticed smoke in that general area" rather than
actually seeing that specific house was in danger from orbit.
Jim Logajan
> More to the point, what human eyeball could resolve that
> location delta, through smoke, haze and clouds?
Probably not. But in checking to see what has been photographed from the
ISS by crew members, I found this resource:
"Gateway to Astronaut Photography of Earth":
http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/default.htm
Clickable map:
http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/sseop/clickmap/
Pat Flannery
Jim Logajan wrote:
>"Jim Oberg" <james...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>What 'phone call'?
>>
>>
>
>No reference to "phone" in Alex's account. Entire account appears to be in
>one brief sentence:
>
>"Sergei Krikalev noticed fire from board of station and called with words
>of support."
>
>
I don't know if Alex has a communications up-link to the station
(although I could almost believe this as he's got just about everything
else imaginable- if he has one, it's probably autographed by Alexei
Leonov), so I assumed the communication came as a phone call.
Since Alex's account seems to imply that the communication from Sergei
occurred while Alex was away from his house awaiting the outcome of the
fire, this would suggest that the communication came in via something
portable, probably a cell phone.
Here's the ISS crew sending Alex congratulations on his 40th birthday in
June of 2003:
http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog/images/al/33/23184107.jpg
And to his daughter, Grisha:
http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog/images/al/33/17180944.jpg
and here, Alex specifically mentions talking to the ISS crew via telephone:
http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=1622&PHPSESSID=26639cb304daed8a6201a43a4dde0861
So there! ;-)
Pat
Pat Flannery
snidely wrote:
>
>The questionable part would be in being able to pick out and recognize
>an individual house.
>
>
I didn't mean to imply that they saw the fire was creeping up the street
toward Alex's house; just that they could see it was near where he
lived, which given the size of the smoke plume it would generate doesn't
seem implausible at all, given the use of binoculars (I assume they have
some on the ISS) and the fact that the cosmonauts would know where he
lived in relation to L.A.
Pat
Pat Flannery
hop wrote:
>Doesn't say phone. More likely a HAM contact, although they do have
>some IP phone capability, and must have the ability to relay email as
>well. If Pachenko knows Krikalev personally, it wouldn't be at all
>surprising if they have regular contacts.
>
>
He says he talks to them via phone:
http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=1622&PHPSESSID=26639cb304daed8a6201a43a4dde0861
"On June 18, 2003 ISS-7 expedition commander Yuri Malenchenko sends
felicitation to my younger newborn 3 months old Grisha-Alexei.On page
Yuri typed HAPPY BIRTHDAY (3 MONTHS!) GRISHA!!! Flight engineer American
astronaut Ed Lu photographed Yuri with this congratulation typed on
paper and image received by e-mail from orbit same day.It`s always a
pleasure to talk with crew onboard over the telephone, but picture from
board is a special part.And I would share with you best part of this
picture-a beautiful view outside station (window on left side of Yuri)."
http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=1638&PHPSESSID=26639cb304daed8a6201a43a4dde0861
"Early morning June 24, 2003 following phone call from board of ISS
Commander of Expedition-7 Yuri Malenchenko sends e-mail with attached
photo. This picture made a distance between Earth and orbit shorter.And
it was a pleasant surprise I will always remember. And never had such
for 40 years.Attached to Music Book (over keyboard piano-organ) page
with typed `Happy 40 years birthday Alex!!!` and specially funny picture
of Ed and Yuri next to piano make me a good smile. During free minutes
of short brakes from work crew do have fun and it is pleasure to see
them smiling.I am sharing this great picture with admirers of
Cosmonautics, Space enthusiasts. It is several months ahead for Yuri and
Ed to work on orbit and we wish them well too. We`re witnessing amazing
times-One American and One Russian(Ukranian) on board only.Friends on
Earth , Partners and Co-workers on orbit flown and will return on Soyuz
TMA By end of mission can ask Yuri for personalized picture from
orbit.Private and 1-2 approximately.You can check with me on that."
http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=1562&PHPSESSID=26639cb304daed8a6201a43a4dde0861
"Greeting from Russian cosmonaut Yuri Malenchenko and American cosmonaut
Edward Lu sent from board of ISS by e-mail May 17, 2003. It`s great to
see cosmonauts smiling and doing well on board of station. During
telephone conversation Yuri asked to send warmest wishes to family,
friends and enthusiasts of Cosmonautics from Soyuz TMA- ISS-7 Russia-USA
team. Original picture came by e-mail little dark.Better resolution
image will be sent from ISS later. Thank you for watching."
Grisha is a boy BTW:
http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog/images/al/33/27215544.jpg
That's him in the foreground.
This kid is growing up with all the toys that I wish I had when I was a
kid...I never had a lucite MiG-21:
http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog/images/al/33/27215638.jpg
All I had was a cutaway cricket and frog. :-(
Pat
Jim Oberg
> Sergei knows Alex Pachenko ...and some have come to visit him in
> I assume scuttlebutt got up to the ISS about the California wildfires near
> L.A. and they probably had a gander at the smoke from them via binoculars
> from the ISS as they passed over California on one of their orbits.
> Realizing that Alex lived near where the fires were occurring, Sergei
> called him to see what was going on.
> I don't see what's so far-fetched about that- it wasn't like Sergei looked
> out the window and saw flames creeping toward Alex's house and could see
> through his bedroom window that Alex was asleep, so he called up to tell
> him to grab all the signed N-1 models* and Russian B-2 clone ashtrays and
> get his rear the hell out of there. :-)
Visiitng a house is one thing -- somebody else drove, right? -- but
knowing where in the hundreds of miles of nearby territory the house
actually WAS
based on its physical address is -- to my mind -- stretching the
geographical insights of the
crew.
And being able to overlay the physical boundaries of the fire with
the physical location of the house, without any auto-mapping aids,
but by eyesight alone, and through smoke and haze, strikes me a priori as
a daunting locational task.
John Doe
> Visiitng a house is one thing -- somebody else drove, right? -- but
> knowing where in the hundreds of miles of nearby territory the house
> actually WAS based on its physical address is -- to my mind -- stretching the
> geographical insights of the crew.
A house in a city, correct. But what if this home was if a veryt
peculiar location with recognisable road patterns ?
Flying across canada, you can spot many towns. But some towns are very
easily recognisable due to shape of river or streets/major roadways.
> And being able to overlay the physical boundaries of the fire with
> the physical location of the house, without any auto-mapping aids,
ISS has mapping aids on laptops.
To be able to say that fire was just one block away from a home, no. But
to be able to say that there was fire west of the home from southwest to
north east and that the only way in would be though the road coming in
from the south east , that would be credible.
Pat Flannery
Jim Oberg wrote:
>Visiitng a house is one thing -- somebody else drove, right? -- but
>knowing where in the hundreds of miles of nearby territory the house
>actually WAS
>based on its physical address is -- to my mind -- stretching the
>geographical insights of the
>crew.
>
>
If you were trying to get to it via a map of L.A., you'd know where it
was, at least approximately where it was in relation to the city. Los
Angles s huge, but it's not the North Am of "Magnus, Robot Fighter."
I imagine that one of the favorite things for the astronauts to do on
the ISS (maybe the _only_ interesting thing to do...) is watch the Earth
pass by below you and note things like cities, volcanos, lakes and
rivers, etc. I imagine after a few hundred orbits you end up with a
pretty good idea where everything is at.
In the case of the L.A. wildfire, no matter which way the wind was from,
the smoke plume would point like an arrow to the fire's source north of
L.A.. Sergei wouldn't be able to pin down the position of the fire's
source to a multi-block area, but he certainly could note that the fire
was somewhere within several miles of where Alex's house was located,
and since they do communicate by phone, giving Alex a call to see what
was up would be an obvious thing to do if you thought his house was near
a major fire.
>And being able to overlay the physical boundaries of the fire with
>the physical location of the house, without any auto-mapping aids,
>but by eyesight alone, and through smoke and haze, strikes me a priori as
>a daunting locational task.
>
One advantage of trying to figure out where things are in L.A. from
orbit is the extremely hilly nature of the terrain surrounding the city-
the city has hills and mountains running all around it, and even
extending into it. These would not only cast obvious shadows at any sun
angle other than directly overhead, but would tend to make comparison of
the city to a map pretty simple from orbit.
Here's some shots of Los Angeles from the ISS:
http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/scripts/sseop/photo.pl?mission=ISS011&roll=E&frame=10993&QueryResultsFile=112872716323161.tsv
http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/scripts/sseop/photo.pl?mission=ISS011&roll=E&frame=6524&QueryResultsFile=112872716323161.tsv
http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/scripts/sseop/photo.pl?mission=ISS011&roll=E&frame=12851&QueryResultsFile=112872716323161.tsv
http://eol.jsc.nasa.gov/scripts/sseop/photo.pl?mission=ISS009&roll=E&frame=12839&QueryResultsFile=112872716323161.tsv
And yes, even with cloud cover, smog, and haze you can get a pretty good
idea where things are, and the view would be fairly easy to compare to a
map.
I'm not the person to be discussing this with though; give Alex a call
and ask him for the specifics. I'm surprised you don't have some of his
Russian space memorabilia around your place already. I've got a stuffed
bear covered with Russian space pins and a bust of Sergei Korolev that I
purchased from him.
You mentioned you had a widget of some sort from the N-1 launch control
panel that you got when you were over there. You give Alex a call, Alex
will give someone else a call, that guy will call someone else, and
inside of a month you'll open your door and find a LK mock-up signed by
Mishin and Leonov sitting in the front yard.
Provided, Comrade Oberg, that the correct number of dollars have passed
into the correct hands. ;-)
Pat