Re: Artificially Intelligent entity? or doll?
American
> Patricia Aldoraz wrote:
> > On Jul 15, 8:05 am, John Jones <jonescard...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >> If intention is a process that can be found in any material system then
> >> people may think that you ascribe equal value to the movements of humans
> >> and inanimate matter.
>
> > Intention is not a process, it is not found in any material system you
> > can name and the question of value is connected how?
>
> If you think that robots, as aggregates of tasks, show intentions, then
> I would worry about your values. Because, you would place what you argue
> as the goals of machines on a par with the goals of humans.
A.I. doesn't have to be that much compromised with
robotics for a 100+ year interstellar exploration
initiatives if we've got a great stock of older,
more willing accomplices to try out FTL, at least for
the short term.
Besides, we've got much better healing through
Obamacare with who dies first.
Who are they kidding?
According to the 1000+ page health bill HR3200, older
citizens are rejected for coverage in favor of an
illegal aliens of younger age.
In fact, any person with a private health care plan
will be a punishable offense, according to the fine
print in HR3200.
American
[1]
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/universal_coverage_ok_obamacar.html
American
Since the plan that works for Obamacare would insure
only patient's EKG's that are more strongly synchronized
in the statistically younger brain's EEG pattern, the govern-
ment could therefore spread its influence over the human
condition much further with Obamacare. Not only could the
margins of unfortunate statistics expand to unprecedented
levels, but the government could implement further plans to
control itself from private expansion into utilizing the hearts
of the most healthy brains in affecting the electromagnetic
fields of other willing accomplices around them.
Since it would not be fair for any private enterprise to
influence its employees with a harmonious relationship
between an enterprise's willing accomplice's average repe-
titive cycle of EKG's with the synchronized event averages
of the employee's EEG, or vice versa, forming a dependency
on providing the equivalent amount of equalization time that
the bureaucracy can implement with its own version of
weighted dependencies, the negatively legal outcome that
would become permeated throughout the populist culture
would now include all of the willing accomplices of some
private enterprise as well as the willing accomplices of the
bureaucracy, unless of course there was already foul play
being perpetrated by both the private enterprise and
the bureaucracy, which would be, most likely the case.
In such a case, at least the OLDER willing accomplice can
divorce himself from this system of bureaucracy/industrial/media
complex, since he/she had been automatically entered into
the bureaucracy's statistical database on who would have
been the least likely candidate to recieve medical attention,
with this person being more likely and free to choose other
willing accomplices (who are just like him/herself) in which to
validate his/her claim that neither the earth-bound private
enterprise OR the bureaucracy was expedient at all in providing
a reliable witness towards installing a deltronic relationship
between all of its recipients within the higher
dimensional universe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxieS-6WuA
with the "dimension" of gravity crossing over into the 5th,
as well as its "instantaneous velocity", thus eliminating having
to design or use cell phones and satellite systems with their
"relativistic" effects already designed within the circuitry,
meaning that all communications have now become instan-
taneous, and IMO would require quantum encryption.
The data is now everywhere, it just amounts to WHO is
using WHAT filters WHEN, that makes the difference
between universal acceptance and universal rejection.
Since those who are willing to forfeit a piece of their own
memory in exchange for the ability to channel healing[1]
there has been a new consciousness on the horizon.
However, the world that our existing government operates
in is not ready for this technology.
The only alternative is to judge the world as being mostly
misled, depite the attempts of independent authorities to
discredit and/or HALT the juggernaut of typically old/young
polarizations, and instead preserve the memories[2] of
those who have been most useful in offering to channel
their gift of healing for both local and extraterrestrial
human resource development.
American
"Energy is the voice of spirit."
- Dr. James Levin
{1]
"John of God (healer from Brazil) claims to do his work
in a trance and reports having no memory afterward
of what has transpired."
- The Energy Healing Experiments, Ch. 18, p.191,
Gary A. Schwartz, PhD, w/ William Simon, ATRA
Books (c) 2007
[2]
ref. "Origins of BLM Theory", 09/04/08 post:
In quantum theory, both the raising and lowering operators
define the Pauli spin operators (in terms of the spin angular
momentum) in their use of integral values (0,1,2,..etc.) for
orbital angular momentum. The raising and lowering operators
are each described by the following equations:
http://home.comcast.net/~samuel_ransom/lower_raise_operators.htm
With respect to these fundamental creation and annhiliation
operators, which have become so aptly named the raising and
lowering operators, we have for each arrangement possibility of
the operators, the process for dipole coupling is identical to
the production of resonant wave's inverted phase angle, e.g.
@-45 degrees vs.+45 degrees. When the hyperpolarized medium is
then chirp pulse amplified from A1 to A_a space group [1] in a
plane perpendicular to the longitudinal axis, with a slightly
detuned probe beam at 90 degree angle with the pulse beam, the
resultant output along the axis of the probe beam provides
the energy required for hypertranslating ONE OF THE FOUR
NORMALS DESCRIBED ABOVE.
IF ONE OF THE FOUR NORMALS MUST HYPERTRANSLATE
SPACELIKE, THEN A COVARIANT (DELTRONIC) EXCHANGE
OF 'TIMELIKE' PSYCHOMETRY MUST ALSO CONTRACT
ORTHOGONALLY. LIKEWISE, IF ONE OF THE FOUR
NORMALS MUST HYPERTRANSLATE TIMELIKE,
THEN A COVARIANT (BOSONIC) EXCHANGE OF
'SPACELIKE' PSYCHOMETRY MUST DILATE
ORTHOGONALLY. The TIMELIKE perception is
our perception of the 4th dimension, and the
SPACELIKE perception is our perception of the
first three dimensions.
In both cases described above, one may wonder, "what
is the contracting and/or dilating phenomenon
describing? The phenomenon represents the compression
and/or stretching of the Schumann wavelength ABOVE
and BELOW 7.486 Hz., and the human 'personality'
that resonates with this wavelength from birth
to death. Even in the space of days or weeks,
there are minute fluctuations in the spacetime that
governs psychometric phenomenon.
The white noise VR "phonon screen" becomes synonymous
with the Bekenstein-bounded, holographic storage medium,
as described in a previous post:
"The geometries that model these theories consist of
cubes, diamonds, hypercubes, and hyper-diamonds. They
ARE the BLOOD and the WATER of ALPHA and OMEGA
(upper and lower) HARMONIC representing the
ZERO POINT of FAITH. Where the LAW is the
FILTER BETWEEN BELIEF AND UNBELIEF, the
screening utilizing the non-Abelian gauge theory
of QCD (quantum chromodynamics) becomes
"Bekenstein Bounded", and is a relationship that is
based on the viewer's perception of what is happening
on a "Thing enclosed in a finite boundary" (The
"THING" BEING WHAT IS NOT SEEN;
CREATION or KILLING VECTOR) becoming programmed
syntheses of holographic storage medium(s). The
area of the screen must change when energy flows
through it, as the geometry of space changes with
the flow of energy. "
The "screen" becomes our programming medium between real
space and imaginary space, as each of the three-quark
triplets with their superpartners are non-relativistic,
and are represented by three separate charged
electromagnetic HF (35 THz or 10^-11 meters),
optothermal polarized gases (lasers) with combined
phase velocities, pulsed when combined to form the
white (noise) interference pattern.
The type of pattern employed is a harmonically stitched,
local phase conjugated, off-NMR, and off-beat
frequency wavelength, which is induced by the
quadrupolarized lasers described above.
This comprises the white noise envelope that becomes
utilized, in resonating the far field pilot wave upper
harmonic limit, with it's stretched version deltronic
wave in the near field.
By filtering the unwanted harmonics, the optothermal
lasers can be programmed to resonate the upper harmonic
pilot in unison with the near field BLM pilot wave.
The white noise interference pattern can be used to
project an HF signal into field space, as well as
entrain the LF within the white noise envelope.
(Notice that 35THz is a HF (subsummated) harmonic of
the LF 3.5 Hz., which, in this example, represents
the DNA frequency regenerative stimulator).
Originally, the LF of the blackbody photon would have
to be super-compressed to 35 THz in order to manifest
some decompression element into the field space.
In that sense, the white noise filter is a two-
directional high pass/low pass frequency filter:
in one direction, only the triggered and compressed
(from low->high) specified pilot frequencies pass,
and in the other direction, only the triggered and
DEcompressed (from high->low), SUBSUMED
frequencies pass.
jacob navia
> Who are they kidding?
>
> According to the 1000+ page health bill HR3200, older
> citizens are rejected for coverage in favor of an
> illegal aliens of younger age.
>
How many lies can republicans tell in a single sentence?
This bill establishes that you are entitled to insurance
and cannot be rejected (as you are rejected TODAY) for
preexisting conditions. I quote that proposal in full:
<quote>
SEC. 111. PROHIBITING PRE-EXISTING CONDITION EXCLUSIONS.
A qualified health benefits plan may not impose any pre-existing
condition exclusion (as defined in section 2701(b)(1)(A) of the Public
Health Service Act) or otherwise impose any limit or condition on the
coverage under the plan with respect to an individual or dependent based
on any health status-related factors (as defined in section 2791(d)(9)
of the Public Health Service Act) in relation to the individual or
dependent.
<end quote>
This means that older people that are in most cases already ill or have
some health problems will no longer be left to die. This is exactly the
contrary of what this republican liar is telling here!
See also section 164: "REINSURANCE PROGRAM FOR RETIREES."
> In fact, any person with a private health care plan
> will be a punishable offense, according to the fine
> print in HR3200.
Another lie. This one is so utterly stupid that is not even worth
trying to examine it in detail.
You can verify that republicans lie if you just read the
text of this proposal under
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:1:./temp/~c111sC9SmT::
That is the library of congress site.
jmfbahciv
> "American" wrote:
>
>> Who are they kidding?
>>
>> According to the 1000+ page health bill HR3200, older
>> citizens are rejected for coverage in favor of an
>> illegal aliens of younger age.
>>
>
> How many lies can republicans tell in a single sentence?
>
> This bill establishes that you are entitled to insurance
> and cannot be rejected (as you are rejected TODAY) for
> preexisting conditions. I quote that proposal in full:
>
Insurance doesn't guarantee access to services.
You should watch how this kind of edict is not
working in Massachusetts.
/BAH
American
:: In fact, any person with a private health care plan
:: will be a punishable offense, according to the fine
:: print in HR3200.
: Another lie. This one is so utterly stupid that is
: not even worth trying to examine it in detail.
Do we have another LIAR here?
I SAID READ THE FINE PRINT.
Investor's Business Daily reviewed the 1,018 page H.R. 3200,
DID YOU??
The editors found the wording a bit mysterious
and sought help from the House Ways and Means
Committee when it stumbled upon the following
segment, listed under "Protecting the Choice to
Keep Current Coverage," in the "Limitation on
Enrollment" section on Page 16:
"Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual
health insurance issuer offering such coverage does
not enroll any individual in such coverage if the
first effective date of coverage is on or after
the first day of the year the legislation
becomes law."
SNAKE IN THE GRASS!!
WHAT THIS MEANS is that those who currently
have a private health insurance plan won't be able
to change to a different plan without violating the
conditions of HR 3200. And if you leave a company
to work for yourself, you will NOT be free to pur-
chase an individual plan from a private carrier
without violating the conditions of HR 3200.
WHAT HAPPENS TO VIOLATERS?
: You can verify that republicans lie if you just
: read the text of this proposal under
: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:1:./temp/~c111sC9SmT::
: That is the library of congress site.
Apparently, you can read HR 3200 all you want, it
won't make a difference to those who can plainly
see that this is a power grab of greedy bureaucrats
(and their worshipping crony types) to encroach
on our freedoms, much like the Bolsheviks did
across the Soviet Union when Lenin/Stalin rose
to power.
American
jacob navia
This is just a lie started by that conservative journal.
If you place that paragraph in its context you arrive at a totally
different view:
(You can read all about the republican campaign based on this lies
in http://mediamatters.org/print/research/200907170005)
---------------------------------------------------------quote
SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.
(a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE DEFINED. -- Subject to
the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing
acceptable coverage under this division, the term ''grandfathered health
insurance coverage'' means individual health insurance coverage that is
offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 [2013] if the
following conditions are met:
(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT. --
(A) IN GENERAL. -- Except as provided in this paragraph, the
individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not
enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of
coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.
(B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED. -- Subparagraph (A) shall not
affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is
covered as of such first day.
Sec. 102 subsection (c) states that "Individual health insurance
coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under
subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an
Exchange-participating health benefits plan."
According to the House Ways and Means Committee's summary of the bill,
the Health Insurance Exchange "creates a transparent and functional
marketplace for individuals and small employers to comparison shop among
private and public insurers."
------------------------------------------------------------end quote
tadchem
Libertarians condemn the use of government power beyond what is
necessary to secure the right of the individual to life, liberty and
the guarantees of the Bill of Rights. This "legislation" secures none
of these rights, and therefore represents an unConstitutional abuse of
power by the Federal government.
We do not ask the government to grant us our constitutional rights.
Those rights are identified as the birthright of every American. (in
other nations YMMV).
We charge the governmennt to protect our rights. We are perfectly
capable of exercising them ourselves.
The Federal government has no authority, right, or mandate to
commandeer the health care industry, the banks, the unionized
carmakers, or any other industry that wants to milk "Uncle Sugar" for
all the cash he can print. Runaway indebtedness by the people who
print money only destroys the value of money.
It won't be long before North Korea can print more US dollars than the
Mint can, anyway:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/23/magazine/23counterfeit.html?pagewanted=all
Can you spell "hyperinflation," boys and girls? That's when money is
so easy to get and hard to spend that you can line your bird cages
with it.
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
jacob navia
> On Jul 24, 3:13 pm, jacob navia <ja...@nospam.org> wrote:
>
> Libertarians condemn the use of government power beyond what is
> necessary to secure the right of the individual to life,
Then, you agree that leaving dozens of millions of americans
without health care is one of the tasks of the government
since access to health care is a life or death question when you
have a serious illness.
> liberty and
> the guarantees of the Bill of Rights.
This means that you have the liberty to change your job (for instance)
without losing your health insurance and risking your life.
> This "legislation" secures none
> of these rights, and therefore represents an unConstitutional abuse of
> power by the Federal government.
>
This is not true. The legislation will allow people to have
access to health care that now can't have it because of
lack of money, pre-existing conditions, or similar problems.
> We do not ask the government to grant us our constitutional rights.
>
????
> Those rights are identified as the birthright of every American. (in
> other nations YMMV).
>
Americans pay more than any other country of the world for health
care but their life expectancy is behind that of Cuba. Doesn't that
make you think a bit?
> We charge the governmennt to protect our rights. We are perfectly
> capable of exercising them ourselves.
>
Sure. But the right to go to the doctor is included there?
> The Federal government has no authority, right, or mandate to
> commandeer the health care industry, the banks, the unionized
> carmakers, or any other industry that wants to milk "Uncle Sugar" for
> all the cash he can print.
You are just misrepresenting the health plan of the government, in
other words LYING together with your fellow republicans.
>Runaway indebtedness by the people who
> print money only destroys the value of money.
>
That is why reducing the cost of health care is necessary.
To AVOID future deficits.
[rest of nonsense snipped]
ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com
> tadchem wrote:
>> On Jul 24, 3:13 pm, jacob navia <ja...@nospam.org> wrote:
>>
>> Libertarians condemn the use of government power beyond what is
>> necessary to secure the right of the individual to life,
>
> Then, you agree that leaving dozens of millions of americans
> without health care is one of the tasks of the government
> since access to health care is a life or death question when you
> have a serious illness.
According to the US Census Bureau, for 2007 (the latest year for which
they have complied data) the percentage of Americans without health
insurance is about 15% and the number has been dropping for years.
15% doesn't sound like a crisis to me, especially when that 15% contains
a large percentage of young, healthy people that have no interest in
having health insurance.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
jacob navia
Sure. 46 MILLION people... they do not represent anything to you.
Nearly 90 million people spend some time (in 2006) without health insurance.
Over 8 in 10 uninsured people come from working families � almost 70
percent from families with one or more full-time workers and 11 percent
from families with part-time workers.
The number of uninsured children in 2007 was 8.1 million � or 10.7
percent of all children in the U.S
This doesn't "sound like a crisis to you" ?
There is only one thing certain in life Jim: one day you will get
sick. I hope that you don't discover THEN that the money you paid for
health insurance doesn't actually COVER anything and that you were
screwed by the insurance company, like many others discovered to their
horror.
(Data from http://www.nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml)
Androcles
"jacob navia" <ja...@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:h4d9n4$d04$1...@aioe.org...
> tadchem wrote:
>> On Jul 24, 3:13 pm, jacob navia <ja...@nospam.org> wrote:
>>
>> Libertarians condemn the use of government power beyond what is
>> necessary to secure the right of the individual to life,
>
> Then, you agree that leaving dozens of millions of americans
> without health care is one of the tasks of the government
> since access to health care is a life or death question when you
> have a serious illness.
Dozens of millions of Americans voted it that way. It's your system,
live free or die. No medic is obliged to treat you for free, TANSTAAFL.
If you don't like it, LEAVE. Go join the communists.
(I'm not an American, but I played one on TV.)
ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com
> ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>> In sci.physics jacob navia <ja...@nospam.org> wrote:
>>> tadchem wrote:
>>>> On Jul 24, 3:13 pm, jacob navia <ja...@nospam.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Libertarians condemn the use of government power beyond what is
>>>> necessary to secure the right of the individual to life,
>>> Then, you agree that leaving dozens of millions of americans
>>> without health care is one of the tasks of the government
>>> since access to health care is a life or death question when you
>>> have a serious illness.
>>
>> According to the US Census Bureau, for 2007 (the latest year for which
>> they have complied data) the percentage of Americans without health
>> insurance is about 15% and the number has been dropping for years.
>>
>> 15% doesn't sound like a crisis to me, especially when that 15% contains
>> a large percentage of young, healthy people that have no interest in
>> having health insurance.
>>
>>
>
> Sure. 46 MILLION people... they do not represent anything to you.
It would have been even scarier if you would have used 46,000,000.
No, 15% does not sound like a crisis to me, maybe a point of concern, but
hardly a crisis.
Guess what, I'm one of the 15%, have been most of my life, and am
over 60 but too young to collect medicare.
For the sort terms I did have health insurance, mostly because after
the company contribution it was really cheap, I spent more on health
insurance than the total of all my medical bills my entire life.
Most people that have health insurance are over insured and just pissing
away money. They would be better off with a "catastrophic" plan with a
big annual deductable for the rare contingency of a major illness or
accident.
If people did that, maybe health facilities wouldn't be overwhelmed with
things like runny nosed kids and fat guys with heartburn, which can be
treated just fine with a generic OTC remedy from the local drug store.
jacob navia
> Dozens of millions of Americans voted it that way.
Apparently not, since the voted president, Mr Obama,
proposed a health reform. Or maybe you did not notice
that republicans lost the last U.S. election?
> It's your system,
> live free or die.
This kind of of "alternatives" can only exist in
republican minds. The possibility of living free
AND have health insurance doesn't even appear as
a possibility in their small brains :-)
> No medic is obliged to treat you for free, TANSTAAFL.
Death to the poor then. Let them DIE, and the best
way to do it is to deny them health care.
> If you don't like it, LEAVE. Go join the communists.
Sure sure pal...
> (I'm not an American, but I played one on TV.)
Apparently you confuse "TV americans" with the real
people of the U.S.
Androcles
> Androcles wrote:
>
>> Dozens of millions of Americans voted it that way.
>
> Apparently not
You seem to have snipped what I wrote.
Anything you can snip I can snip better.
Fuck off, bigot.
*plonk*
Do not reply to this generic message, it was automatically generated;
you have been kill-filed, either for being boringly stupid, repetitive,
unfunny, ineducable, repeatedly posting politics, religion or off-topic
subjects to a sci. newsgroup, attempting cheapskate free advertising
for profit, because you are a troll, simply insane or any combination
or permutation of the aforementioned reasons; any reply will go unread.
Boringly stupid is the most common cause of kill-filing, but because
this message is generic the other reasons have been included. You are
left to decide which is most applicable to you.
There is no appeal, I have despotic power over whom I will electronically
admit into my home and you do not qualify as a reasonable person I would
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filed, they amuse me and I retain them for their entertainment value
as I would any chicken with two heads, either one of which enables the
dumb bird to scratch dirt, step back, look down, step forward to the
same spot and repeat the process eternally.
This should not trouble you, many of those plonked find it a blessing
that they are not required to think and can persist in their bigotry
or crackpot theories without challenge.
You have the right to free speech, I have the right not to listen. The
kill-file will be cleared annually with spring cleaning or whenever I
purchase a new computer or hard drive.
I hope you find this explanation is satisfactory but even if you don't,
damnly my frank, I don't give a dear. Have a nice day.
jacob navia
> "jacob navia" <ja...@nospam.org> wrote in message
news:h4dfqa$jgq$1...@aioe.org...
>> Androcles wrote:
>>
>>> Dozens of millions of Americans voted it that way.
>> Apparently not
>
> You seem to have snipped what I wrote.
>
You see that you can't argue this, and then (usual tactics)
you start insulting to hide the fact that you have absolutely
NO ARGUMENTS.
Remember:
To be able to insult me it would be necessary FIRST that I give some
importance to what you say :-)
Have a nice evening Sir.
jmfbahciv
Once again, you are confusing health insurance with access.
/BAH
jmfbahciv
insurance for each kid; if they did not, they would lose the
dependent deduction on their income taxes. The Democrat's bill
is aimed at destroying small business.
/BAH
John Stafford
> jacob navia wrote:
>> tadchem wrote:
>>> On Jul 24, 3:13 pm, jacob navia <ja...@nospam.org> wrote:
>>>
>> Sure. But the right to go to the doctor is included there?
>>
>>> The Federal government has no authority, right, or mandate to
>>> commandeer the health care industry, the banks, the unionized
>>> carmakers, or any other industry that wants to milk "Uncle Sugar" for
>>> all the cash he can print.
>>
>> You are just misrepresenting the health plan of the government, in
>> other words LYING together with your fellow republicans.
>>
>
> Once again, you are confusing health insurance with access.
Injecting the issue of access a bit late is bad form, but let's take it
on anyway. Freedom, for example, means nothing if there is no access to
the resources it requires - for example, the freedom to read certain
material if the positing society/government makes access to the material
impossible.
Healthcare, once mediated by government, is likely to become more
limited in scope than it is now (to the insured or very wealthy, or
congress). It must be diminished in order to be cost-effective and
'fair'. It's just too expensive otherwise, even if we increase the
number of doctors or lower their mean income by another means (force).
So ACCESS to the breath of medical facilities will be limited.
Some people will still be left to die, just as they are now, through the
arbitrary judgments of doctors - sometimes fairly, others not.
John Stafford
jacob navia
> Last year, Massachusetts' edicted that all parents had to buy drug
> insurance for each kid; if they did not, they would lose the
> dependent deduction on their income taxes. The Democrat's bill
> is aimed at destroying small business.
>
Another republican lie. Small business are being crushed now with the
amount they have to pay for health insurance. In average
they pay 18% more for the same plans because of lack of
bargaining power. The reform proposed targets to create
an exchange where the costs for everyone will be lower
because of competition that now is inexistent.
jacob navia
What you miss here is that things like preventive care, i.e. treating
conditions BEFORE they are serious, will allow to LOWER the cost of
health care to everyone.
If today a diabetic can't afford to go to the doctor, nothing will be
done against his diabetes and society will be forced to pay emergency
care for the amputation of a leg, and then will be forced to take care
of a disabled person permanently.
With easy access to care the same diabetic person will receive
preventive care, will keep his leg and will be able to work and be
productive within his community. Savings in pain and money for
everyone.
> Some people will still be left to die, just as they are now, through the
> arbitrary judgments of doctors - sometimes fairly, others not.
>
We will all die, there is no way out, this is the human condition.
What is important is that health care increases the life expectancy of
the majority of citizens. The U.S. spend more in health care than any
other nation but the life expectancy is behind that of Cuba.
Why?
Best care does NOT mean more expensive care!
jacob navia
Libertarians are a set in themselves. A mixture of good intentions
without any sense of proportion.
If you drink a cup of milk it is good for your health.
If you drink 10 liters of milk you die.
Everything must have a measure, a limit, there is no silver bullet.
Respect of the individual is OK but collective problems need
collective solutions. Humans live in a community, not isolated.
What can we deduce from your ideas?
Tat we should scrap doctors? (You are 60 and never got any serious
illness)
That we should abolish health insurance?
That we should give health care only to the super rich?
What is exactly your objective?
Thanks
John Stafford
> Last year, Massachusetts' edicted that all parents had to buy drug
> insurance for each kid; if they did not, they would lose the
> dependent deduction on their income taxes. The Democrat's bill
> is aimed at destroying small business.
Since when is the insurance industry a small business? They have more
money than the government!
John Stafford
> [....]
> What you miss here is that things like preventive care, i.e. treating
> conditions BEFORE they are serious, will allow to LOWER the cost of
> health care to everyone.
It MIGHT eventually if Americans begin to take care of themselves properly.
> If today a diabetic can't afford to go to the doctor, nothing will be
> done against his diabetes and society will be forced to pay emergency
> care for the amputation of a leg, and then will be forced to take care
> of a disabled person permanently.
I know of no such situation because we have a not-for-profit hospital
that takes the indigent. Diabetes is not uncommon among them. They are
treated.
A better example would be those with cancer: they are sent to a hospice
to die while the insured get treatment.
> With easy access to care the same diabetic person will receive
> preventive care,
Like a whup against the side of their head and told to stop eating junk
food, to lose weight.
>> Some people will still be left to die, just as they are now, through
>> the arbitrary judgments of doctors - sometimes fairly, others not.
>>
>
> We will all die, there is no way out, this is the human condition.
> What is important is that health care increases the life expectancy of
> the majority of citizens. The U.S. spend more in health care than any
> other nation but the life expectancy is behind that of Cuba.
>
> Why?
>
> Best care does NOT mean more expensive care!
If we all ate like the Cubans, we might live longer, too.
jmfbahciv
and these businesses will pay even more if the Democrat's
version of the bill passes. There will be no bargaining
power because there won't be any competition.
/BAH
jmfbahciv
No, it doesn't. The fact is that you will become sick and die. There
is no such thing as preventing that.
>
> If today a diabetic can't afford to go to the doctor, nothing will be
> done against his diabetes and society will be forced to pay emergency
> care for the amputation of a leg, and then will be forced to take care
> of a disabled person permanently.
Why are you assuming that the national health insurance will pay
for all of the above? Why do you assume that diabetes is
preventable?
>
> With easy access
Again, the bill proposed by Congress does not guarantee access; it
only "insures" people.
>to care the same diabetic person will receive
> preventive care, will keep his leg and will be able to work and be
> productive within his community. Savings in pain and money for
> everyone.
>
>> Some people will still be left to die, just as they are now, through
>> the arbitrary judgments of doctors - sometimes fairly, others not.
>>
>
> We will all die, there is no way out, this is the human condition.
> What is important is that health care increases the life expectancy of
> the majority of citizens. The U.S. spend more in health care than any
> other nation but the life expectancy is behind that of Cuba.
>
Does this statement include cost/person?
> Why?
>
> Best care does NOT mean more expensive care!
Yes, it does. You've been listening to the left fork
of Pelosi's tongue too much.
/BAH
jmfbahciv
> jmfbahciv wrote:
>> Last year, Massachusetts' edicted that all parents had to buy drug
>> insurance for each kid; if they did not, they would lose the
>> dependent deduction on their income taxes. The Democrat's bill
>> is aimed at destroying small business.
>
> Since when is the insurance industry a small business?
Where did I state that insurance is small business? Go look
at what has happened over the last three years in Mass.
> They have more
> money than the government!
>
No, they don't. But that's beside the point.
/BAH
jmfbahciv
> jacob navia wrote:
> > [....]
>> What you miss here is that things like preventive care, i.e. treating
>> conditions BEFORE they are serious, will allow to LOWER the cost of
>> health care to everyone.
>
> It MIGHT eventually if Americans begin to take care of themselves properly.
>
>
>> If today a diabetic can't afford to go to the doctor, nothing will be
>> done against his diabetes and society will be forced to pay emergency
>> care for the amputation of a leg, and then will be forced to take care
>> of a disabled person permanently.
>
> I know of no such situation because we have a not-for-profit hospital
> that takes the indigent. Diabetes is not uncommon among them. They are
> treated.
>
> A better example would be those with cancer: they are sent to a hospice
> to die while the insured get treatment.
In Canada, they are insured but put on a waiting list because the
facilities can only handle a certain amount.
>
>> With easy access to care the same diabetic person will receive
>> preventive care,
>
> Like a whup against the side of their head and told to stop eating junk
> food, to lose weight.
That isn't what causes the disease.
>
>>> Some people will still be left to die, just as they are now, through
>>> the arbitrary judgments of doctors - sometimes fairly, others not.
>>>
>>
>> We will all die, there is no way out, this is the human condition.
>> What is important is that health care increases the life expectancy of
>> the majority of citizens. The U.S. spend more in health care than any
>> other nation but the life expectancy is behind that of Cuba.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Best care does NOT mean more expensive care!
>
> If we all ate like the Cubans, we might live longer, too.
>
All you have to do is wait a couple of years. If the Democrats get
their way, you will be living in the same kind of economic
environment.
/BAH
John Stafford
> John Stafford wrote:
>> jacob navia wrote:
>> > [....]
>>> What you miss here is that things like preventive care, i.e. treating
>>> conditions BEFORE they are serious, will allow to LOWER the cost of
>>> health care to everyone.
>>
>> It MIGHT eventually if Americans begin to take care of themselves
>> properly.
>>
>>
>>> If today a diabetic can't afford to go to the doctor, nothing will be
>>> done against his diabetes and society will be forced to pay emergency
>>> care for the amputation of a leg, and then will be forced to take care
>>> of a disabled person permanently.
>>
>> I know of no such situation because we have a not-for-profit hospital
>> that takes the indigent. Diabetes is not uncommon among them. They are
>> treated.
>>
>> A better example would be those with cancer: they are sent to a
>> hospice to die while the insured get treatment.
>
> In Canada, they are insured but put on a waiting list because the
> facilities can only handle a certain amount.
I was speaking of the present in the USA: the uninsured poor are given
home hospice and left to die. If we broaden treatment of all who get a
fatal kind of cancer, then it's going to get rather expensive unless the
cost of treatment plummets to a reasonable level.
>>> With easy access to care the same diabetic person will receive
>>> preventive care,
>>
>> Like a whup against the side of their head and told to stop eating
>> junk food, to lose weight.
>
> That isn't what causes the disease.
You are right and I deserve the whup. Thank you for the correction.
>> If we all ate like the Cubans, we might live longer, too.
>>
> All you have to do is wait a couple of years. If the Democrats get
> their way, you will be living in the same kind of economic
> environment.
I guess we have a bet, then.
ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com
Other than to point out that a issue that only effects 15%, many of
them voluntarily, is hardly a "crisis" requiring immediate action.
American
insurance, there wouldn't be enough doctors to go around.
The #1 mortality statistic is heart disease, and there
just aren't enough heart doctors and health care specialists
that have either the time or the ability to charge nothing for
their service.
This is America - there is much more pressure to perform
in diversified areas of the economy that most people, in
looking for an "escape", will infect their lives with drugs
and/or alcohol, fast foods, and cheap whores, which
lowers one's resistance to other polluting elements such
as pornography, drug culture, bad music, and crime.
Since a doctor is increasingly under pressure to choose
only the best treatment for some scoundrel that abuses
himself constantly, a majority of the patients who get
mixed in with these types in crowded emergency room
decision-making processes, end up blaming their
"victimology" on something that's economically or even
socially systemic, and fails to recognize that in their
own blindness, the "quick fix" that they have been given
most or all of their lives, such as credit card abuse,
exploiting technological resources to the detriment of
the society-at-large, all have become "quickened" to an
"ah ha" moment of recognition of the downwardly-spiraling
urbane cultural environment, that just a drive down main
street, pukes for them into existence.
Outside of being a complete shut-in, and as a result of
this kind of sick society, the metropolitan demand goes
up, but the first people in line for the most personal
attention are the ones who are the citizens that can
work for a living, in order to pay the required fees,
NOT those with no job or family planning whose
trollops squirt babies out like rabbits, or those whose
career ladder consists of greasing the skids for the next
raw deal to go down.
Thus the "universality" of health care makes "universal"
a code word for increased taxes or penalties on the more
honest of Americans, which is completely unethical, and
makes this government guilty of running an illegal business
in the affairs of what doctors charge.
The U.S. has the highest per capita amount spent on
health care in the entire world, and our whole system
is becoming bankrupted by malpractice torts and people
that can't or won't pay their fair share of the bill. The whole
problem lies with government intrusion into just about every
aspect of what a free market system is supposed
to represent.
The country is beginning to look like Boston Tea Party
time, and neither the Republicrats or the Demicans act
like they can do anything about the rise in bank failures
and/or job losses rising to an all time high. ALL OF THEM
are responsible, and now all the socialcrats are trying to
tell me that we need health care reform by the government?
Ha Ha, NO THANKS, the system works just fine the way
it is, IT IS NOT BROKEN, and no amount of tweaking on
the government's part will make it run any smoother -
it will just add to the legal morass that doctors and
health care providers are already up to their necks in.
Government is taking way too much of our money away
from us and creating useless pork with what doesn't do
anything at all except create more class dependency.
Neither government health care for some universal
beneficiary, or a social welfare program as an
entitlement, will ever work with the "plug-and-play"
version of health care that the state-run media complex
is trying to spin in the lying populist media clip or
sound byte.
Besides, any program that the government takes on will
always end up costing $$$$ to the taxpayers, and these
taxpayers, who are in the designated income brackets
above $250K (where most of the business investment
capital resides), having a direct influence on the number
of quality jobs being created here in the U.S., would be
forced to cut its expenses, and invest elsewhere because
it has lost the power to invest in the diversified industries
that originated the quality job market to begin with.
Over the last 50 years or so, countries like Venezuela and
Cuba have been producing a fine class of 100% mule team
workers, but then maybe China and the middle east are
starting to catch up with their own ox-blood types.
While many are fooled into believing that the $10.6 billion
worth of investors in these kinds of "worker based industries"
are an upper class of Golden Snouts who have invested in
these kinds of emergent markets, it seems quite odd that
nobody or nothing is there to fill the quality job market
void except the Fed and the self-bailed-out
banking complex.
This is sort of like what the Golden State's budget fix will
become without emerging markets having to initially
compete with our government, which in the NWO scheme
of things, is impossible[1], but yet will attempt to institute
a government fix that will arrive at the same time that the
emerging markets arrives on the scene, proving without
a doubt, that those in NWO charge want to completely
ideologue squirming complainers like you, into the same
job description with everyone else.
Join the ranks of amateurs who still need to learn the
english language, the luke-warm nihilists who constantly
complain of anything logically or reasonably based, for
any non-alien resident that might actually learn to compre-
hend what people are talking about, or the socialists that
wish to distribute land grants and entitlement programs to
their willing accomplices throughout the state-run media
complex, rather than airports and flying cars that might just
divert billions into non-pork programs of the 21st century
into a universe-based private enterprise.
Just like an explorer to the New World would not have
had either a mayor or president greet him at the border,
neither would a scientifically illiterate people have the
ability to find their way through a scientifically intuitive
culture - a culture which became hidden by the decadence
of the very society it was intended to serve and protect.
Intuitive-led thought reverse-identifies socialism with
slavery - just look at the heroes of invention, business,
and politics to illustrate the success of the individual.
Socialists maintain a heartlessness and unwillingness
to cooperate with newfangled ideas, and defer to centrist
opinion, ergo their psychic factories of centralized
government for what may be beneficial to only an en-
slaved society. They are altogether whitewashed tombs,
full of dead men's bones, because when it comes to
having an intricate, logical and/or truthful opinion on an
important issue or idea, none of them are willing to
stand out from the crowd.
This is why corruption takes hold of the weak minds who
have become subservient to the state - rugged individual-
ism has been lost to the dictates of either the dictator as
savior, or police state as the ultimate motivator-by-fear.
Slave-like hoardes ruled by masters and regulations
that are immune to change is not the right idea for
being successfully inclined - it is the complete antithesis
of a society that is spiritually scientific as well as
scientifically intuitive.
American
[1]
Daniel 2:33
jacob navia
> According to the statistics for people without health
> insurance, there wouldn't be enough doctors to go around.
>
Will YOU commit suicide then? That would free a doctor
for other people.
NO?
Surprising. Since according "to the statistics" there aren't enough
doctors to go around.
> This is America - there is much more pressure to perform
> in diversified areas of the economy that most people, in
> looking for an "escape", will infect their lives with drugs
> and/or alcohol, fast foods, and cheap whores, which
> lowers one's resistance to other polluting elements such
> as pornography, drug culture, bad music, and crime.
>
Over 8 in 10 uninsured people come from working families � almost 70
percent from families with one or more full-time workers and 11 percent
from families with part-time workers.
The number of uninsured children in 2007 was 8.1 million � or 10.7
percent of all children in the U.S
All those hard working people (also called "the poor") are just
"infecting their lives with drugs, cheap whores, bad music".
Those 8.1 million children too.
The old republican mantra:
WAR TO THE POOR! KILL THEM ALL!!
Poor people are just baseless, addicted to cheap whores and
hear bad music!
[snip rest of drivel]
jmfbahciv
> jmfbahciv wrote:
>> John Stafford wrote:
>>> jacob navia wrote:
>>> > [....]
>>>> What you miss here is that things like preventive care, i.e. treating
>>>> conditions BEFORE they are serious, will allow to LOWER the cost of
>>>> health care to everyone.
>>>
>>> It MIGHT eventually if Americans begin to take care of themselves
>>> properly.
>>>
>>>
>>>> If today a diabetic can't afford to go to the doctor, nothing will be
>>>> done against his diabetes and society will be forced to pay emergency
>>>> care for the amputation of a leg, and then will be forced to take care
>>>> of a disabled person permanently.
>>>
>>> I know of no such situation because we have a not-for-profit hospital
>>> that takes the indigent. Diabetes is not uncommon among them. They
>>> are treated.
>>>
>>> A better example would be those with cancer: they are sent to a
>>> hospice to die while the insured get treatment.
>>
>> In Canada, they are insured but put on a waiting list because the
>> facilities can only handle a certain amount.
>
> I was speaking of the present in the USA: the uninsured poor are given
> home hospice and left to die.
No, they aren't. To get hospice to come in requires a doctor's order.
> If we broaden treatment of all who get a
> fatal kind of cancer, then it's going to get rather expensive unless the
> cost of treatment plummets to a reasonable level.
>
Prices of cancer treatment will never go down.
>
>>>> With easy access to care the same diabetic person will receive
>>>> preventive care,
>>>
>>> Like a whup against the side of their head and told to stop eating
>>> junk food, to lose weight.
>>
>> That isn't what causes the disease.
>
> You are right and I deserve the whup. Thank you for the correction.
>
>>> If we all ate like the Cubans, we might live longer, too.
>>>
>> All you have to do is wait a couple of years. If the Democrats get
>> their way, you will be living in the same kind of economic
>> environment.
>
> I guess we have a bet, then.
It's no bet. All you have to do is look what has been happening
over the last six months.
/BAH
American
> According to the statistics for people without health
> insurance, there wouldn't be enough doctors to go around.
: Will YOU commit suicide then? That would free a doctor
: for other people.
Do you work for the health care thugs at SZIC?
(They're trying to force national health care down our
throats, see Glen Beck tonight about a confrontation
in La.)
: NO?
: Surprising. Since according "to the statistics" there aren't
: enough doctors to go around.
How intelligent is it to take my comments out of context
while repeating yourself like a whining saw?
Please take a long walk off a short pier.
> This is America - there is much more pressure to perform
> in diversified areas of the economy that most people, in
> looking for an "escape", will infect their lives with drugs
> and/or alcohol, fast foods, and cheap whores, which
> lowers one's resistance to other polluting elements such
> as pornography, drug culture, bad music, and crime.
: Over 8 in 10 uninsured people come from working families
: – almost 70 percent from families with one or more full-time
: workers and 11 percent from families with part-time workers.
Statistics in themselves are no reason to blame any one
except the government that prevents industry from expanding
in the "poor's" direction.
Unfortunately, the government seems to want to expand in
all directions according to the cap and trade legislation,
as well as health care reform.
All one has to do is look at the number of jobs that have
been lost over the past few months because of your
so-called nasty little elite republican corporate downsizing
through taxation, e.g. capital gains and dividend taxes
on your so-called "rich", as well as rich "startups", and
you'll see that, in the short term, an economic war has
been brewing between government and private industry
for some time now.
Seems everyone that I know cares more about helping
the poor and saving the planet than the tax-and-spend,
bribe-and-elect crowd do.
Yet the war continues with massive banking insolvency
initiated by the government meddling with super-easy
term loans that automatically approved applicants used
to acquire the same homes that educated people had,
but the success was only short-lived, especially when
the price of gas rose for everyone.
Now we see the root of the problem. When the price
of oil rises, it is directly related to what OPEC wants
to charge its customers - since our government has
stifled our ability to drill here in America, because of
environmental and endless regulation and taxes on the
actual production of oil and oil-based derivatives, the
bottom line is that American ingenuity has simply gone
south for a while, and I think that this has to do with
our country's ability to open up more energy job
markets, so that more of us can afford to make money
on the entire population's ability to *pay us* for the
energy that *they* consume.
If the population increases, then the demand for
energy must also increase. If you don't modify the
production to serve the demand, then either the
price is too high, or the demand is too low, and an
alternative to gasoline must be introduced. The answer
has nothing to do with a faulty supply/demand loop,
because the loop should always exist to serve the
needs of an industrially active civilization.
When the government tries to put restrictions on
the ability of either the suppliers to serve the needs
of the consumer, or the consumer's ability to pay for
the supply of energy, it is the GOVERNMENT that
needs to be held at bay until the price (earnings/costs
ratio) is at equilibrium between both the consumer
and the supplier.
: The number of uninsured children in 2007 was 8.1 million
: – or 10.7 percent of all children in the U.S
This has nothing to do with the government's intrusion
on free market capitalism with either the rise in energy
costs or job markets, but is a hanging statistic based on
your rhetoric to blame the overall republic in order to
gain creedence with your own agenda.
: All those hard working people (also called "the poor") are just
: "infecting their lives with drugs, cheap whores, bad music".
: Those 8.1 million children too.
: The old republican mantra:
: WAR TO THE POOR! KILL THEM ALL!!
rrrriiiiiggggghhhhhtttttt, place the blame but don't offer any
solutions yourself. Just shift the responsibility on something
other than yourself.
: Poor people are just baseless, addicted to cheap whores
: and hear bad music!
This makes you an expert on every branch of music
that ever existed?
Hardly!
You'll have to come up with a better reason for poor
people to believe in themselves than try to strong-arm
the chorus of disenchantment!
: [snip rest of drivel]
Innuendo won't ever insulate you from the deleterous
effects of an international economy of vultures at the
gate, because medical care for even the poor is not
a right granted by the Constitution - it's just a matter
of survival.
The government is no more responsible for health care
than oil refineries are for producing automobiles -
although the two are linked only indirectly, there are
forces in the economy that will dictate the kind and
type of personal need for the comprehending consumer.
The personal needs of an American family has already
been justified by how much the breadwinner earns -
NOT what his/her rights are at any given time.
Besides, most government programs never make it
to the "end user" - THAT being the citizen.
The title "civil servant" becomes a total sham when
you are ethnically engendering greasing the skids
of all the lemmings that willingly jump off the cliff
of the rising federal debt.
American
"Life is not tried it is merely survived when
you're standing outside the fire."
- Garth Brooks
American
back in committee today (1400 EST) to ramrod HR 3200
to eventually include a hidden CARDCHECK provision.
You can find who your Congress person is and
give them a call to stop the tyranny:
American
Unlock patent suppression and free up market
competition TODAY!!
American
spam/troll posts and counting ..." <xanadu...@mchsi.com> wrote:
> "American" <samuelran...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:01525c38-9dd6-4b3d...@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks David Chilton for clarifying my noted link
mishap! - - It was definitely the MISSING LINK to
Freudian KNOTS:
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnn&&&&&&&nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnn&.................&nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnn&......................&nnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnn&.....'''''''.......'''''''......&nnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnn|......(o).......(o)......|nnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnn( ..............|..|...............)nnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnn(.?.............|...|.............?.)nnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnn(...............|.....|..............)nnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnn|_..........(.......)..........._|nnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnn...........^.. ^............nnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnn.........................nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnn......XXXXX......nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnn..................nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
nnnnnnnnnnnnnn________nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Obama science czar's mentor a renowned eugenicist?
Do you agree that musing about forced abortions,
mass sterilizations, and poisoning the water
supply to control the population is in
the mainstream?
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/07/29/more-on-the-whackjob-science-czar-the-msm-ignores/
Other "not-to-be-missed" links should have been:
http://www.redstate.com/states/*****
where the ***** means enter your state here.
Other useful links:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW_by_State.shtml
American
"Whenever you have an effective government you have
a dictatorship."
- Harry S. Truman, in a lecture at Columbia University,
04/28/1959