Possible 2014 comet impact to Mars could make it habitable.

[Robert Clark]

Speculation here that such an impact could make Mars habitable:

Rush to Mars: Comet impact could make Red Planet inhabitable.
Published time: February 28, 2013 16:32
http://rt.com/news/mars-comet-tito-flyby-601/


Bob Clark

[David Spain]

Cross-posts elided...

On 3/5/2013 11:31 AM, Robert Clark wrote:
> Speculation here that such an impact could make Mars habitable:
>

Title says otherwise?

> Rush to Mars: Comet impact could make Red Planet inhabitable.
> Published time: February 28, 2013 16:32
> http://rt.com/news/mars-comet-tito-flyby-601/

I think we should hope for a miss. Geologic time scales for climate
change on Mars to complete a 'terraform' would not be a boon for human
exploration.

Dave

[Robert Clark]

Habitable and inhabitable are used interchangeably, like flammable
and inflammable. The opposite term is uninhabitable.

Bob Clark

[David Spain]

On 3/5/2013 2:12 PM, Robert Clark wrote:
> Habitable and inhabitable are used interchangeably, like flammable
> and inflammable. The opposite term is uninhabitable.
>
> Bob Clark
>

Ah, right you are...

[Greg (Strider) Moore]

"David Spain" wrote in message
news:Tr2dnSHlaMQH0avM...@giganews.com...

Well technically inflammable means VERY flammable. It's an intensifier.

I suppose that means Anchorage AK is habitable, but Honolulu is inhabitable
:-)


>
>

--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

[caru...@mac.com]

It's a nice thought but Mars is just too small for a comet impact to do much good. Think about it: over the last 4 billion years, Mars has been repeatedly hit by comets, just like Earth and while they were probably able to deliver enough water and atmospheric gasses to keep that water liquid for an extended period - long enough to form various minerals which can ONLY form in the presence of hot, liquid water!

However, there are two things Mars doesn't have that the Earth does which allowed Earth to keep most of it's water and atmosphere: it's magnetic field and it's size. To address the latter first, you can and I did, do some quick back-of-the-envelope calculations to show that Mars is simply not large enough to hold onto gaseous nitrogen and nitrogen is critical to the formation of life as it's absolutely necessary for any kind of long-chain reproductive molecule, like RNA/DNA and it's also necessary to create the substrate molecules that form the workhorse protein molecules that get things done in the cell. The first issue formed as a result of Hadean-Earth hitting a Mars-sized object which blew off a good-chunk of the Earth's crust into space, formed the moon, started the earth spinning, and left the earth big enough to hold onto it's nitrogen gas. Moreover, because space is extremely insulating, all that kinetic energy was stored in the core and has been oozing out onto the crust as lava flows and volcanoes ever since - well, it had radioactive decay to help it out, but Mercury is nothing BUT a core of radioactive elements and it's no longer liquid rock. Further, Venus has a lot of the same things going for it as the earth with the exception that Venus no longer spins to any meaningful amount. As a result, it's lost it's magnetic field and the gas it has is slowly losing it's atmosphere to solar radiation. If this had been going on for the last 4 billion years, Venus would be a barren rock today. It's not. Ergo, at one point in the not too distant past - like the last couple-few million years, it was almost earth's twin with a moon, an atmosphere, liquid, but hot, water, and likely life of some sort. I would speculate, however, that the moon rotated in a retrograde orbit which deteriorated, was pulled apart by Venus' gravity and impacted all over Venus, destroying it's life, it's atmosphere, and it's magnetic field as the impacts of millions of asteroids slowed the planet down like pellets fired at a revolving wax drum. All those weird pancake-like structures they've found on Venus are simply meteor-impacts filled with magma.

[Nun Giver]

Well, it might make it less hostile whether to even a meaningful degree
is debatable.

If Mars had been bigger perhaps a bit bigger than Earth and
had it had a moon similar to Earth's moon, I suppose it might
have managed a sort of 'habitable' environment. This of course
is the habitable zone discussion and Mars is just too small.
Perhaps 4 billion years with a still very active magnetic field
Mars might have been more interesting, if this meant a three bar
atmosphere as an insulating blanket. As a wildly eye guess for
it would really take.

As it stands, Mars means tunnels or perhaps domes with perhaps a
Star Wars defence/defense system for space rocks for a permanent colony.

making fire or just friction..............Trig

[bob haller]

http://pubs.giss.nasa.gov/docs/1985/1985_Stothers.pdf

It appears we may be entering a littered area of space......

every 64 million years life on earth gets largely wiped out:(

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <ebdec39b-925b-472f...@googlegroups.com>,

Is that you, George?

[Snidely]

Greg (Strider) Moore used his keyboard to write :

> "David Spain" wrote in message
> news:Tr2dnSHlaMQH0avM...@giganews.com...
>>
>>On 3/5/2013 2:12 PM, Robert Clark wrote:
>>> Habitable and inhabitable are used interchangeably, like flammable
>>> and inflammable. The opposite term is uninhabitable.
>>>
>>> Bob Clark
>>>
>>
>>Ah, right you are...
>
> Well technically inflammable means VERY flammable. It's an intensifier.

I thought flammable was a back-formation, and that imflammable was the
older word. Have those naughty posters over in AUE been lying to me
again?

>
> I suppose that means Anchorage AK is habitable, but Honolulu is inhabitable
> :-)

Depends on how claustophobic you are, I suppose.

/dps

--
I have always been glad we weren't killed that night. I do not know
any particular reason, but I have always been glad.
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain

[bob haller]

On Mar 8, 12:22 am, Fred J. McCall <fjmcc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> bob haller <hall...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >It appears we may be entering a littered area of space......
>

> Oh, it doesn't appear like any such thing.
>
> --
> "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
>  truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
>                                -- Thomas Jefferson

Go google it, life changes on earth are cyclical. We may be entering a
littered area of space. Just like the persides meteor shower but on a
much larger scale

[Greg (Strider) Moore]

How about YOU FRACKING CITE a reference for a change.

Who knows, you may be right here. Maybe Fred is wrong. But you know what,
without an actual cite (google it doesn't count), I'll take Fred's word over
yours based on your track record.

[bob haller]

On Mar 8, 4:22 pm, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Mass-extinction-comes-every-62-million-years-UC-2693228.php

There are lots of references to this on the net, its a well known issue

[Wayne Throop]

::: We may be entering a littered area of space.

:: How about YOU FRACKING CITE a reference for a change.

: bob haller <hal...@aol.com>
: http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Mass-extinction-comes-every-62-million-years-UC-2693228.php

Which has, of course, little if anything
to do with "entering a littered area of space".

[bob haller]

On Mar 8, 11:16 pm, Fred J. McCall <fjmcc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> bob haller <hall...@aol.com> wrote:
> >On Mar 8, 4:22 pm, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
> ><moor...@ignorethisgreenms.com> wrote:
> >> On Mar 8, 12:22 am, Fred J. McCall <fjmcc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> bob haller <hall...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >It appears we may be entering a littered area of space......
>
> >> >> Oh, it doesn't appear like any such thing.
>
> >> >> --
> >> >> "Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
> >> >>  truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
> >> >>                                -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> >> >Go google it, life changes on earth are cyclical. We may be entering a
> >> >littered area of space. Just like the persides meteor shower but on a
> >> >much larger scale
>
> >> How about YOU FRACKING CITE a reference for a change.
>
> >> Who knows, you may be right here.  Maybe Fred is wrong. But you know what,
> >> without an actual cite (google it doesn't count), I'll take Fred's word over
> >> yours based on your track record.
>

> >http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Mass-extinction-comes-every-62-mil...

>
> >There are lots of references to this on the net, its a well known issue
>

> An occurrence FOR WHICH WE DO NOT KNOW THE CAUSE is not support for
> whatever the current "Sky Is Falling" hypothesis occurs to Bobbert
> "Chicken Little" Haller.
>
> --
> "Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
>  territory."
>                                       --G. Behn

laugh allyou want now, since earth has a poor ability to track meteors
and comets, no one knows for sure whats up.

but once something strikes earth and does real damage everyone will
get interested......

[bob haller]

> An occurrence FOR WHICH WE DO NOT KNOW THE CAUSE is not support for
> whatever the current "Sky Is Falling" hypothesis occurs to Bobbert
> "Chicken Little" Haller.

Ignoring obvous possible hazards is class A STUPID......

Your driving along and hear a noise like a tire is going flat:(

Do you ignore it till the tire blows and causes a possible accident?

Or pull over like I did yesterday and take a look? It must of been
something about the road, everything looked fine and the noise went
away at the end of the block


Global warming is another one like that and the severe storms doing
mega damage and the central part of USA drought is expected to
continue, national weather service prediction

. We as a world wouldnt worry about global warming till the word is
brought to its knees with famine, new york will be evacuated because
of flooding etc....

While billions are wasted on SLS that money should be better spent on
things we really need


sad your too dumb to get it:(

[John F. Eldredge]

You would need thousands of comets' worth of gas to make Mars' atmosphere
dense enough for human life, plus you would probably have to introduce
some sort of genetically-engineered plant to release free oxygen, then
wait a long time.

--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly
is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

[bob haller]

On Mar 9, 6:53 pm, Fred J. McCall <fjmcc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> bob haller <hall...@aol.com> wrote:
>

> >> An occurrence FOR WHICH WE DO NOT KNOW THE CAUSE is not support for
> >> whatever the current "Sky Is Falling" hypothesis occurs to Bobbert
> >> "Chicken Little" Haller.
>
> >Ignoring obvous possible hazards is class A STUPID......
>

> Reacting to every chicken-hearted delusional fantasy of a hazard is
> class A INSANE.

>
>
>
> >Your driving along and hear a noise like a tire is going flat:(
>
> >Do you ignore it till the tire blows and causes a possible accident?
>
> >Or pull over like I did yesterday and take a look? It must of been
> >something about the road, everything looked fine and the noise went
> >away at the end of the block
>

> So you're the idiot who stops every other block and walks around his
> car, looking at it in bemusement?
>
> Face it, Bobbert.  You're a Class A Loon.
>
> --
> "Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
>  only stupid."
>                             -- Heinrich Heine

No I am the one who pulled off the road into a parking lot to check
the tires......

so I wouldnt hit a loon like you.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article <aq0urs...@mid.individual.net>,

"John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 05 Mar 2013 08:31:02 -0800, Robert Clark wrote:
>
> > Speculation here that such an impact could make Mars habitable:
> >
> > Rush to Mars: Comet impact could make Red Planet inhabitable. Published
> > time: February 28, 2013 16:32
> > http://rt.com/news/mars-comet-tito-flyby-601/
> >
> >
> > Bob Clark
>
> You would need thousands of comets' worth of gas to make Mars' atmosphere
> dense enough for human life, plus you would probably have to introduce
> some sort of genetically-engineered plant to release free oxygen, then
> wait a long time.

That's a pretty good assessment.

[bob haller]

On Mar 9, 8:37 pm, Orval Fairbairn <orfairba...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> In article <aq0ursF4sk...@mid.individual.net>,

if theres enough water under the mars surface it could be electrically
turned into oxygen and hydrogen to provide breathable air. or
genetically engineer some lichen that would produce air.

[Nun Giver]

I'll suggest it will take more comets on Mars than on Earth to
make the same delta\equal rise in surface atmospheric pressure.

2 bottles of Costco brand beer................Trig

[Nun Giver]

Just add time. How many millions of years? What level of nitrogen
will this creation require?

[Sam Wormley]

On 3/9/13 10:17 PM, bob haller wrote:
> if theres enough water under the mars surface it could be electrically
> turned into oxygen and hydrogen to provide breathable air.

Only to be scoured away by the solar wind.

[Greg (Strider) Moore]

>"bob haller" wrote in message
>news:ae4cec44-c408-4d7f...@u7g2000yqg.googlegroups.com...

That's a start. Now, I suggest you read what you cite.

"Rohde, however, prefers periodic surges of volcanism on Earth as the least
implausible explanation for the cycles, he said -- although it's only a
tentative one, he conceded."

So even the authors of the study can't agree on the cause (if such a
timetable even actually exists).

In addition, the articles doesn't necessarily describe a more littered area
of space, but possibly an area of space that causes more perturbations in
things such as the Oort cloud.

But at least you tried citing something.

[Lofty Goat]

How long did it take Mars to lose its original atmosphere to the solar
wind?

[alie...@gmail.com]

Anything to keep humans out of space, eh, Sam? If Mars' primeval
atmosphere was eroded away by the solar wind, remember that took
billions of years, during which the sun's radiation was much stronger
than today:

http://science1.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2001/ast31jan_1/

"To calculate the total loss of atmosphere," he added, "we must take
into account how the Sun has changed during the past four billion
years. The Sun's ultraviolet output was larger in the past, and the
solar wind was probably much stronger. This means that solar wind
erosion was likely much more effective in the past than it is today."


Mark L. Fergerson

[Wrong Stuff]

Here is a crazy question. What would it take to manufacture a magnetic
field for a planet? Has anyone run the numbers? I've this tingling feeling
it is in the realm of doable. A managed Mars with a extra uber magnetic
field and a renewed atmosphere might have a habitability span equal to or
greater than the home planet. Understanding habitable may mean an oxygen tank
for the expat earther.

Trig

[Wrong Stuff]

The issue is for how long? As I hinted the effects of solar wind
maybe be blocked with proper terraforming i.e. a synthetic magnetic
around the planet. Indeed a synthetic planetary grid may be just a
part of planetary power grid. Granted beyond this it likely would take
many many comets crashing into the planet to plump up the atmosphere indeed
it would take a more massive atmosphere to reach an earth full bar atmosphere.
And also why assume the goal is a breathable atmosphere for humans? I'd suggest
climatic temperature and how plants do maybe much more important. Humans
may need to wear an oxygen tank. Mars receives less light and it going to
have a less productive biosphere than Earth's. Nevertheless with a terraformed
atmosphere it could yeild a more secure state than Earthsurface has when incoming space rocks and comets hit the atmosphere. Plus in deep time such a terraformed Mars might last longer than Earth when the Sun grows towards its red giant stage. Do you want to suggest the Sun won't fuse away it's fuel?

If a terraformed Mars lasted only a couple of million years would doing
so make sense for mortal man? I think so. If you plan to live several millions
years then you may have problem. Even then that a bit of time to seek the
next step.

step by step......................Trig