Is it this easy to live on Earth?
Willie...@gmail.com
films to survive on Mars by compressing oxygen 27,000x and compressing
nitrogen and water 5,000x from Mar's atmosphere - to provide water,
oxygen and nitrogen - needed to sustain life on Mars. Each person
needs about 10 watts per day for this purpose - out of a budget of 165
watts per day.
Some folks reading this result asked how easy would it be to live on
Earth? haha.. Sort of a dumb question, but when one looks at the
inputs needed to create the Jeffersonian ideal of independent farmer
families producing and trading from their own capital base..
Using advanced technology, self-replicating technology, and an
internet based knowledge sphere - this ideal seems very close indeed.
With the industrial age of large scale capital investments - being but
a temporary period - and an end point of technical development having
technological 'seeds' augment more traditional biological seeds - and
a common outgrowth being to tap into the environment for energy and
raw materials- to create a highly sustainable environment within.
Using modern agricultural practice it takes about 1 acre - 4,050 sq m
- to support an individual's food demand at the USA per capita rate.
This uses outdoor agriculture. Greenhouses have substantially higher
outputs - supporting up to 100 people per acre. This suggests that a
well managed automated system might support a family of 3 to 12 people
on less than 2,000 sq m.
Water is easily recovered from the atmosphere of Earth without any
need of centralized piping or sewage treatment by using molecular
sieves and pumps similar to that described for mars, but requiring
about 1/4th the energy..
Solar power - averages 120 to 240 watts/ m2 depending on locale.
Demands of about 250 W/person on a continuous basis seem to be
adequate. So, with 40% efficient systems, mean the 5 sq meter per
person is needed. So, supporting say 12 people per 'farm' - requires
60 sq meters of panels. Energy is stored as hydrogen and oxygen gas
at high pressure in thin film containers. .
MEMS based industrial systems capable of producing a wide array of
products, including PET thin films for major structural systems,
PET thin films molded to contain pneumatic structural elements and
coated with dichroic films and other elements to control lighting -
form very low mass very easily constructed greenhouses. EPS
stabilized PET structures - with polyacrylate actuators - form very
sophisticated robotic systems to automate farming and growing
functions - with a high degree of automation - and the balance
provided by an IP based telerobotic capability driving humaniform
robots.
Approximately 200 kg per person is needed to sustain that person at a
very high level.
MEMs based systems - capable of self assembly and self reproduction -
also appear possible.
A 12 person farm consists of a 2.4 tonne inflatable self erecting
system - that produces a copy of itself - including animal and plant
offspring- every 2 years.
Self replicating MEMs system need not have sophisticated AI. Johnny
vonNeuman demonstrated self replicating systems in the 1940s using a
shoe box and shaped pieces of wood. He also used a clay based system
that molded 'daughters' by pressing two 'parent' molds together. The
front of one mold is pressed against the back of another mold, and the
volume in between, creates a copy of the two molds. When dried, the
new mold can function with other molds to make copies of itself.
A complex device that is essentially an orgami of a piece of foil that
is cut into a specific 2d pattern and folded into a specific shape..
The orgami is unfolded and immersed in an electrolytic solution that
causes another foil to form from solution coating the first.
The double sheet is immersed in another solution that causes the two
sheets to separate into two identical sheets.
The two sheets are now folded into the same orgami shape replicating
the same device.
These sheets of foil are actually polymers that have insulating,
conductive and semiconductive properties - and all these properties
are replicated in the 'daughter' sheets.
It will take about 5 to 8 years to completely spec out and design the
very first 'farm' - but then every two years, the number of farms will
double. Within 63 years that one farm will balloon into 2 billion
farms - capable of supporting 24 billion people at current USA per
capita standard of consumption. Each farm covers 2,000 sq meters (1/2
acres) so 2 billion of them - covering 4 million sq km. - about 2.3%
of the world's land area.
To avoid political difficulties it may be desirable to build farms
that float on the ocean. A 52 m diameter sphere - weighted down with
soil and a mechanical spike - and even a fresh water 'pond' would
easily support 3 to 12 people each - and draw materials out of the air
- CO2 - to get carbon, H2O to get hydrogen - magnesium calcium and so
forth - would provide an upscale residence for 'boat people' A mat
2,500 km in diameter would house 2 billion 'farms'
Doubling every year would allow completion of this program in 30 years
instead of 60. Some plants and animals have gestation periods of
less than a year. Doubling every six months - would provide
completion of the program in 15 years - and adding in a 5 year
development cycle - we could have transformed life on earth by 2025.
Beyond subsistance - add global ballistic transport to create a global
village.
MEMs based hydrogen oxygen rockets driving thin film silica aerogel
coated vehicles - using automated GPS guidance - provide global
ballistic transport - anywhere of goods or people at very little cost.
With a 5% structural fraction - and 3 km/sec final velocity - along
with 4.5 km/sec exhaust speed - and 250 kg payload - require 540 kg
total vehicle weight, and 27 kg structural weight and 263 kg
propellant. That requires 9.2 GJ - 2,560 kWh of DC electricity to
produce that from water. If each PERSON uses this much capacity, this
is 100 kw per person over a 24 hour period. This is 400x the level
given above. So, 5 sq m of solar panels increases to 2,000 sq m - a
half acre per person.
With power satellites beaming energy to stationary solar panels,
output is increases to 1,000 watts electrical per square meter - 24/7
- so each square meter goes from 50 watts electrical per square meter
to 1,000 watts per square meter - 20x increase - so, total area drops
to 10 sq m of solar panels per person. That is, sufficient with the
overbuild in each 'farm' - to provide daily personal ballistic
transport throughout the world, for every man woman and child - by
building a low mass thin film powersat constellation over the same
period.- augmenting a global wireless internet and an advanced global
positioning system and an open aerial surveillance system to monitor
global security and environment.
kT
I want you on my team.
Dr J R Stockton
> I asked a question about using molecular sieves, solar power and thin
> films to survive on Mars by compressing oxygen 27,000x and compressing
> nitrogen and water 5,000x from Mar's atmosphere - to provide water,
> oxygen and nitrogen - needed to sustain life on Mars. Each person
> needs about 10 watts per day for this purpose - out of a budget of 165
> watts per day.
One who can write "watts per day" is manifestly technically
incompetent. One who can write Mar's is manifestly ill-educated.
--
(c) John Stockton, near London, UK. Posting with Google.
Mail: J.R.""""""""@physics.org or (better) via Home Page at
Web: <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/>
FAQish topics, acronyms, links, etc.; Date, Delphi, JavaScript, ....|
kT
> On Oct 4, 3:02 am, Willie.Moo...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I asked a question about using molecular sieves, solar power and thin
>> films to survive on Mars by compressing oxygen 27,000x and compressing
>> nitrogen and water 5,000x from Mar's atmosphere - to provide water,
>> oxygen and nitrogen - needed to sustain life on Mars. Each person
>> needs about 10 watts per day for this purpose - out of a budget of 165
>> watts per day.
>
> One who can write "watts per day" is manifestly technically
> incompetent. One who can write Mar's is manifestly ill-educated.
You don't grok. Grokking requires glial cells.
http://webpages.charter.net/cosmic/index.htm
You think you can keep all this straight all the time?
Dude, that's why we invented wiki. To help keep it all straight.
Willie...@gmail.com
lengthy piece and Dr. Stockton focuses on those two rather minor and
easily explained pieces - which are not central to what I've said, and
used these rather benign features in a foolish attempt to re-frame
everything I've said. One must wonder what his motivation is?
On Oct 5, 3:35 pm, Dr J R Stockton <J.R.Stock...@physics.org> wrote:
> On Oct 4, 3:02 am, Willie.Moo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I asked a question about using molecular sieves, solar power and thin
> > films to survive on Mars by compressing oxygen 27,000x and compressing
> > nitrogen and water 5,000x from Mars' atmosphere - to provide water,
> > oxygen and nitrogen - needed to sustain life on Mars. Each person
> > needs about 10 watts to proivde daily oxygen and water - out of a budget of 165
> > watts total power needs.
>
> One who can write "watts per day" is manifestly technically
> incompetent.
I mispoke certainly. You are taking it out of context, or rather
focusing on a way I mispoke in terms of the context you are speaking,
to wrongly re-frame what I wrote as something illogical and
idiotic.. haha..
Clearly, watts is a rate of energy usage - in SI terms, Joule/sec = 1
watt. The 'per day' part does not apply to the watts, but to the
daily requirement for 909 grams of oxygen and 6.7 liters of water
extracted from the Martion atmosphere.
What that statement means in the frame you are attempting to cast is
that 864,000 joules are needed each day to produce the daily
complement of water and oxygen an adult male needs to survive which is
small compared to a total energy budget of .14,256,000 joulrd per day.
> One who can write Mar's is manifestly ill-educated.
Mars' you mean? Did I write that? haha . I guess I did. I type
very rapidly and quite frequently typos occur. I also speak
informally, and malpropisms do sometimes occur.
Obviously if I can see and correct the typographic error I am not
'manifestly ill-educated' and if I can in detail provide a correction
to mis-statements,
I have done so above.
A truly educated person can look past typographic errors and simple
mis-statements and see the deeper meaning beneath. You have proven
yourself to be not one of these by your response.
Which is too damned bad - for you.
Willie...@gmail.com
Its not that I didn't get it straight, how could one forget that Joule/
sec = watts? Its that I mispoke, - a malpropism its called. And the
Mars' thing - is a simple typo.
The point is the '10 watts per day' should have been '864,000 joules
per day to provide the daily requirement of oxygen and water' and
the 165 watts per day should have read 14,256,000 joules per day total
energy budget.
Of course when you divide these daily rates by 86,400 seconds per day
you DO get a rate of power - 864,000 joules per day may be supplied by
an average power usage rate of 10 watts. 14,256,000 joules per day
may be provided by an average power usage rate of 165 watts.
The malpropism came not from any deep seated ignorance of the
difference between watts and joules - but what I was trying to
communicate. The power levels required to do ALL the things needed
to survive on Mars and the relative disparity of supplying oxygen and
water on Mars needed by a person each day, and the average power level
needed to supply those daily needs.
Watts per day - read as a stand-alone statement is confusing - its
either a rate of power growth, or a mistake. In the context of this
discussion it is a malpropism caused by the fact I'm looking at the
power requirements to sustain the physical needs for oxygen and water
each day on mars. 10 watts continuous supplies oxygen and water
needed by an adult male from the atmosphere of mars. This power level
allows the extraction of 909 grams of oxygen and 6.7 liters of water
each day from the martian atmosphere. Rather than write that I wrote
the malpropism which contracted it all - and left Stockton with the
wrong impression.
haha.. thing is I thought anyone who understood what was going on
would see the malpropism (and the typo) and understand what I was
getting at. I guess this just goes to show, some people are fools
regardless of badges.
BradGuth
A bipolar lose cannon like William Mook can always come in real
handy. For one thing, we could toss out or simply get rid of most any
number of libraries, thus saving countless millions upon millions per
year by way of relying upon the all-knowing expertise of wizard
William Mook, all wrapped up in just one very thick book (similar in
configuration to the New York city phone book, except there’d have to
be many more of those thin pages). Those nearly empty libraries could
then make good servitude/minion housing for those of us unwilling to
worship the ground upon which lord Mook has walked, and best of all
your local pretend-Atheist church would become an offshore banking
branch that never has to account for anything, much less pay any sort
of local or federal tax. In fact, all federal, state and civil
service workers will be entirely tax exempt as well as full early
retirement and medical benefit covered from birth to grave, whereas
the remaining 10% private sector of this nation are the only ones
that’ll forever get to pay for everything.
As long as Mook is sufficiently medicated, we're all in luck and far
richer plus better off than anyone on Earth or on Mars could possibly
imagine (you just don't want to be Muslim or the least bit anti bad-
Zionist, don’t eat pork and don’t mind naming your kids after the
Rothschilds). This New World Order where most everyone is rich and
powerful is also where unlimited resources of fossil energy just keeps
popping up, and our loot grows on trees.
This is all very good news, especially since most oceans will be those
of large dead zones populated with yummy jellyfish, and liquid fuels
of most any sort will run you at least $10/gallon for the lowest grade
of megajoules/kg, with a global surface atmosphere of 10000 ppm in
CO2, and perhaps in places as great as 60% O2, though at times sooty
and loaded with NOx.
Of course the SAA contour will have become ten fold greater in area,
ocean levels will have increased by another meter with no rising end
in sight, and the illegitimate son of GW Bush will have become
president. Undeveloped real estate property in Antarctica will be
going for $1M/acre, on Mars going for $1B/acre and our Selene/moon,
Venus as well as Sirius will each still be taboo/nondisclosure rated
(forbidden in text or in any public or private media context),
although China may have established my LSE-CM/ISS.
~ BG
BradGuth
Human life sustained on Mars for a mere 10 watts.h
Now that's even impressive for a true shut-in wizard like yourself.
Of course at 10 mb it's going to demand a great deal extra O2 than at
1 bar, not to mention the daunting task of keeping your biological
aspects reasonably ticking while more than half the time it's colder
than enough for making loads of dry ice, and otherwise it's nearly a
vacuum and irradiated enough to get rid of any cancer cells throughout
your entire body within the first few days, if not sooner.
And you seriously expect not having to pay folks big bucks for
attending your Mars expedition?
~ BG
trigonometry1972@gmail.com |
While he may or may not be a complete lunatic, the vision is
interesting.
And the question is how much electricity does one need to power
a settlement on Mars. Which is a good question when boiled
down to the basics. Indeed, you may or may not be a complete
lunatic as well after all you reponded to him.
Willie...@gmail.com
time you have ignored it.
The work required to raise the pressure of a gas from one pressure to
another is given by;
W = n R T * ln(Pa/Pb)
Where n = moles
R = rydberg constant = 8.314
T = temperature (Kelvins)
ln( ) = natural logarithm function
Pa = the higher pressure
Pb = the lower pressure
The atmosphere of Mars is 0.13% oxygen by volume
and its atmospheric pressure is no less than 0.6 kpa
So the partial pressure of oxygen on Mars is 0.00078 kpa
The atmosphere of Earth is 21% oxygen by volume
and its atmospheric pressure is 101.3 kpa.
So the partial pressure of oxygen on Earth is 21.273 kpa
The ratio of these two pressures is 27,273
The logarithm of 27,273 is 10.2
The temperature on Mars averages 220 K
An adult male consumes no more than 909 grams of oxygen per day
Oxygen molecules are O2 - which total 32 atomic mass units. That
means that 1 mole of oxygen molecules equal 32 grams - this means that
909 grams is 28.4 moles
So, the amount of work needed to raise the pressure of 28.4 moles of
oxygen in the Mars atmosphere from 0.00078 kpa to 21.273 kpa is
W = 28.4 * 8.314 * 220 * 10.2 = 529,847.89 joules
Divide this by 86,400 seconds in 24 hours - and this obtains 6.1 watts
continuous.
Now, oxygen requires 0.92 joules per gram per K. Room temperature is
295 K - 75 K higher than 220 K. So, to raise 909 grams 75 K
requires an additional 62,721 joules. Again divided by 86,400
seconds in a day this averages out to 0.73 watts.
So, to raise oxygen pressure to breathable levels and heat it to room
temperature requires less than 7 watts per person.
A similar calculation regarding water vapor in both Earth's atmosphere
and Mars' atmosphere obtains a lesser figure - the sum of all figures
is less than 10 watts per person.
BradGuth
In that case, cooling off a toasty and robust atmosphere and otherwise
extracting or converting in order to obtain as much O2 as you'd like
is another no brainer of hardly any local energy demand, and this is
especially impressive since none of the required energy (no matters
how much) need be imported, and unlike Mars as having essentially
zilch worth of water, there's likely hundreds of teratonnes of easily
accessible water within them acidic clouds surrounding Venus, which
also means that Venus already has nitrogen and mineral salts to work
with.
We couldn't have done it without you.
~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG
BradGuth
Bipolar minds are capable of parroting.
Plan on a demand of roughly 5 kw/hr per individual for the all-
inclusive energy of surviving on Mars without wasting yourself away to
nothing. Lord Mook is only off by roughly 500 fold, unless you don't
plan on hardly ever moving a mussel or ever returning to Earth outside
of a body bag.
~ BG
Willie...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
This is the fifth time I've said this - there is no free oxygen in the
Venusian atmosphere at all! Oxygen under high pressure and
temperature tends to react with things to form oxides. Which is what
happened on Venus, so the process will not work there. You can use
energy to break down CO2 into C and O2 - but that requires far more
energy to do that resulting in a higher power level per person.
No matter, the solar power available to a balloon floating at 50 km
altitude - where the temperature and pressure are survivable - is
rather high.
The main difficulty for anyone floating above the surface, or in
jimsuit
http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/photocredit/achievers/ear0-007
on the high pressure high temp surface - is the deep gravity well
presented by Venus.
To escape Venus requires 11 km/sec
To escape Mars requires 6 km/sec
Using the best available rockets our exhaust speed is 4.5 km/sec
So, this means
For Venus you need a 91.4% propellant fraction
For Mars you need a 73.7% propellant fraciton
With a structural fraction of 5% this means that
For Venus you need 278 tonnes for every 10 tonnes useful payload
landed on Venus
For Mars you need 47 tonnes for every 10 tonnes useful payload
landing on Mars.
Finally, lets not forget the stringent surface conditions on Venus
when compared to Mars. Pressure is 92x as high as on Eearth and
temperature is higher than can be achieved in your oven at high heat
at home.
We can build pressure suits and refirgerators that can survive in this
environment, even one filled with a sulfuric acid vapor.
We cannot build a rocket engine today however that operates at the
pressure and temperature of Venus' atmosphere. Their performance is
seriously degraded to nearly nothing. That's because the conditions
inside today's rocket chambers, approximate the temperature and
pressure on the surface of Venus.,
What is needed to operate on Venus is something like an arcjet rocket
- whose pressure and temperature of operation is several times greater
than the surface of Venus - and then a power supply adequate to
running the thing.
With an exhaust velocity of 16 km/sec - even on teh surface of Venus,
an arcjet can boost off the surface to 11 km/sec with only 49.8%
propellant fraction. With a 5% structural fraction this means that
22.1 tonnes vehicle can loft 10 tonnes to escape from the surface.
Since the arcjet rocket can use the atmosphere itself as a working
fluid, this amount of propellant can be reduced further to perhaps 5
tonnes or less - for use in the upper atmosphere.
The difficulty that must be addressed is the power required by the
rocket to produce adequate thrust. To lift 22.1 tonnes with an arcjet
rocket requires 4 gigawatts of electrical power be generated on Venus
and beamed through the thick atmosphere.
This may be achieved by releasing a light weight 4 km diameter balloon
whose surface is covered with MEMs solar cells and microwave emitters
- that beam energy to the descending capsule. If made thinly enough
this balloon may be made to mass only 30 tonnes or so. So, two
capsules are sent to Venus, the balloon unmanned, enters the
atmosphere and descends to 50 km - and deploys. It is sent a few days
ahead of the manned capsule. Successful deployment means the manned
capsule descends to the surface for exploration and then uses arcject
to launch back to Earth, leaving the power balloon for future
explorers.
Now the fact that Venus requires;
1) the development of special high pressure high temp suits
2) the development of advanced refirgeration
3) the development of advanced arcjet rocket technology
4) the development of advanced solar power technology
means that it will likely occur after, some think well after, the
exploration of Mars.
I tend to think that those in an age that desires to explore new
worlds will view these challenges as reasons to explore Venus not
reasons to avoid Venus.
And, yes, the 4 GW power plant used to power the arcjet rocket? It
will be tapped to run refrigeration and extract oxygen from Venus'
atmosphere. Not by molecular sieve, since no free oxygen exists on
Venus. But, by direct decomposition of CO2 into C and O2. along with
the direct decomposition of H2SO4 into H2O and SO2 to create water.
These are high energy operations compared compressing gases with a
molecular sieve, but small energy compared to the 4 GW power level
needed to generate the thrust to loft a 22 tonne capsule to Venus
escape.
Willie...@gmail.com
A spacesuit has about 2 sq meters of surface area, and room
temperature is 22 C - or 295 K - or 72 F.
The difference in temperature in K is 438 K.
Aerogels, if they can be made flexible enough, could be very good
insulators
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerogel#Silica_aerogels
Thermal conductivity as low as 0.004 W/mK - that's 4 W/mmK
Four mm of aerogel would transmit only 0.1 Watts per square meter.
That's 0.2 watts over the surface of a suit per Kelvin per mm.. So, a
refirigerator would have to reject 87.6 watts to keep the suit at 295K
- or 22 c - or 72 F. Refrigerators and heat pumps require
approximately 65% the power they reject. So, a refrigerator that 57
watts to reject this. Of course, a human being generates 60 watts of
heat energy being alive. Also, the refrigerator itself must reject its
own heat, and the heat of any electronics must also be rejected.
Adding this up;
87.6 watts - heat through the aerogel
60.0 watts - heat from the human
100.0 watts - heat from electronics
450.0 watts - heat from refrigeration operation
-----------------
697.6 watts - total heat rejected
Which requires 450 watts to run the refrigerator.
Capturing 2 H2SO4 and reducing it to 2 H2O and 2 SO2 and O2 -
rejecting the SO2 and keeping the H2O and O2 for breathing and
drinking - requires a comparable amount of energy - and refrigeration
- to work.
So, 1.5 kilowatts will be needed by this system to survive on the
surface of Venus.in a suit that looks like this
trigonometry1972@gmail.com |
So one needs a power source on the suit to power the
refrigerator. That is one heavy Venus Jim suit.
Which is clearly your point.
BradGuth
Funny or perhaps a little sad that our bipolar Mook has once again
responded exactly like we’d expect, as will as for not knowing squat
about our human physiology and our ability to otherwise better
withstand pressure than vacuum.
An OveGlove jumpsuit and the 65+ kg/m3 of buoyancy in the otherwise
0.9 gravity environment of Venus gives quite the advantage, in
addition to the easily available local energy of unlimited renewable
amounts, and even fairly accessible fresh water by the teratonnes.
Therefore we have our water, O2, N2, H2, S8 and any number of raw
elements in between, as well as the local energy for extracting and
utilizing such basics that need not be imported is what usually makes
happy campers out of most wizards, and asking of others like our lord
Mook, what’s not to like about Venus.
Of course the surface habitats and/or of their composite rigid
airships (each rather easily insulated to R-1024/m if need be in order
to isolate yourself from the IR and thermally conductive CO2 exterior)
offers as cold of interior as you'd like, icy cold if you’d care,
because there's no limits as to what local renewable energy and of
local raw elements can provide.
Oddly, I've never once suggested doing Venus in the buff, nor would
any other 5th grade accomplished ET. A full body pressure suit
similar to deep sea diving shouldn't be necessary, as long ago proven
by French pressurized habitat research, and by others long before
then. But that’s merely the best available truth as based entirely
upon the regular laws of physics.
BradGuth
BradGuth
Thanks once again for all the usual negative and otherwise
insurmountable loaded feedback.
Your mainstream cultivated nayism is noted, as is your underlying
intent to deceive and thereby essentially lie through your
intellectual flapping butt-cheeks. Apparently excluding evidence is
what drives each and every motive, means and opportunity that makes
our William Mook a happy camper.
If you were an ET, as out and about selecting a given planet of raw
minerals and valuable elements to pillage and plunder on behalf of
your own kind, and you only had the choice of Mars, Earth or Venus,
with all conceivable things fully considered, of which planet would
turn you on the most?
Try to remember that such ETs are at the very least interplanetary if
not interstellar travel capable, and thus as hard it may be to
believe, more than likely smarter and/or far less dumbfounded than
yourself.
~ BG
BradGuth
A bipolar lose cannon like William Mook can always come in real handy.
For one thing, we could toss out or simply get rid of most any number
of libraries, thus saving countless millions upon millions if not
billions per year by way of relying upon the all-knowing expertise of
wizard William Mook, all wrapped up within just one very thick book
(similar in physical configuration to the New York city phone book,
except there’d have to be many more of those thin pages). Those
nearly empty libraries could then make good servitude/minion housing
for those of us unwilling to worship the ground upon which lord Mook
has walked, and best of all is that your local pretend-Atheist church
would become an offshore banking branch that never has to account for
anything, much less pay any sort of local or federal tax. In fact,
all federal, state and civil service workers will remain entirely tax
exempt as well as offered full early retirement and medical benefits
as covered from birth to grave, whereas the remaining 10% private
sector of this nation are the only ones that’ll forever get to pay for
everything.
As long as Mook is sufficiently medicated, we're all in luck and far
richer plus better off than anyone on Earth or on Mars could possibly
imagine (you just don't want to be Muslim or the least bit anti bad-
Zionist or opposed to whatever’s faith-based bad and ugly, don’t eat
pork and don’t mind naming your kids after the Rothschilds). This New
World Order where most everyone is rich and powerful is also where
unlimited resources of fossil energy just keeps popping up, and public
funded loot grows on trees.
This is all very good news, especially since most oceans will be those
populated by large dead zones that’ll accommodate yummy jellyfish, and
liquid fuels of most any sort will run you at least $10/gallon for the
lowest grade of megajoules/kg, with a global surface atmosphere of
10000 ppm in CO2, and perhaps in places it’ll still offer as great as
12.6% O2 (60% of what we now have to work with), though at most times
rather sooty and loaded with NOx. Living on Earth via Mook knows best
is going to be even better than any New World Order, because we’ll all
become rich and powerful, though never as great as Mook himself.
Of course the SAA contour will have become ten fold greater in area,
ocean levels will have increased by another meter with no rising end
in sight, and the illegitimate son of GW Bush from the Ladden side of
his tree will have become president. Undeveloped real estate property
in Antarctica will be going for $1M/acre, on Mars going for $1B/acre,
and matters of our Selene/moon, Venus as well as Sirius will each
still remain taboo/nondisclosure rated (as well as forbidden in text
or within any public or private media context), although China may
have established my LSE-CM/ISS.
~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG
BradGuth
I have few problems with such typos and downright mistakes, as I make
more than my fair share.
How many mistakes or typos did you make with regards to getting
tonnage away from Venus?
> Willie.Moo (William Mook):
> And, yes, the 4 GW power plant used to power the arcjet rocket? It
> will be tapped to run refrigeration and extract oxygen from Venus'
> atmosphere. Not by molecular sieve, since no free oxygen exists on
> Venus. But, by direct decomposition of CO2 into C and O2. along with
> the direct decomposition of H2SO4 into H2O and SO2 to create water.
> These are high energy operations compared compressing gases with a
> molecular sieve, but small energy compared to the 4 GW power level
> needed to generate the thrust to loft a 22 tonne capsule to Venus
> escape.
Not taking into account the absolutely terrific buoyancy or 90%
gravity for rather easily getting that payload to 75 km if not nearly
100 km to start with, or not to mention the mostly co2, S8 and upper
O2 atmosphere itself becomes arcjet fuel, seems unlikely that it’ll
demand 4 GW per 20 metric tonne capsule, although such energy is not
hardly a problem since Venus already has whatever it takes, and then
some.
http://www.irs.uni-stuttgart.de/forschung/elektrische_raumfahrtantriebe/hiparc.html
http://www.irs.uni-stuttgart.de/forschung/elektrische_raumfahrtantriebe/lichtbogentriebwerk.html
The feed of co2 as arcjet fuel could create nearly a laser cannon
output, although heavier gas such as radon (Rn222) would be better
yet.
~ BG
BradGuth
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_suit
Problem in using a suit like you've suggested would be buoyancy, as in
perhaps too much buoyancy. You'd hardly be keeping your feet on the
geothermally toasty ground.
Why not instead stay inside where it's easily made icy cool, and just
let those robots do their toasty outside thing?
~ BG
BradGuth
I'm sure that you are off in your fancy BBJ doing all sorts of worldly
good kinds of nifty things. Meanwhile we village idiots that
apparently can't do anything right could always use more of your
wizardly expertise in how energy efficient it is to survive on other
planets, even including Venus.
However, did those DARPA MIB do to you what they did to contributor
"tomcat"?
Or is it something more personal that can't be disclosed?
BradGuth
> On Oct 3, 7:02 pm, Willie.Moo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> "tomcat"?
>
> Or is it something more personal that can't be disclosed?
>
> ~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG
Just because William Mook finally offered his wizardly two cents worth
on behalf of Venus, is not a good enough reason for having him whacked
or otherwise banished from Usenet/newsgroups.
~ BG