Mining the Moons of Mars
newpa...@gmail.com
.....if platinum were required for high efficiency fuel cells for
automobiles, only 20% of the world's ground vehicles could be
supplied. This of course doesn't even include the substantially higher
demand for platinum if electrolysis became the primary means for
producing hydrogen for a carbon neutral hydrocarbon fuel and
industrial chemical economy.
While alternatives to platinum use in fuel cells and electrodes for
electrolysis are currently being intensely pursued by researches, it
is interesting to note that while platinum is rare in the regolith of
Earth, it is extremely abundant in space-- in the form of asteroids.
In fact, the largest sources of platinum on Earth occur in regions
that appear to have been hit by large asteroid impacts in the more
recent geologic past.
The total mass of the asteroid belt between the planets Mars and
Jupiter is estimated to be about 3.0–3.6 quintillion tonnes (3.0 t0
3.6 billion billion tonnes of material). If all of this asteroid
material were sprinkled over the entire land area of the Earth, it
would be approximately 8 kilometers deep. Asteroids on average contain
about 15,000 parts per billion (ppb) of platinum vs an average of only
0.003 ppb of platinum found in the Earth's crust.
Planetary scientist, John Lewis, estimated that if all of the total
platinum wealth in the asteroid belt were divided amongst every person
on Earth, each-- individual's-- share would come out to be over $30
billion. Furthermore, he estimated that if the total value of
resources of the asteroids: iron, nickel, aluminum, titanium, gold,
silver, uranium, etc. were divided amongst every individual on Earth
then each individual's share would come out to be over $100 billion.
So its clear that while we may live on a planet of limited industrial
material resources, we also live in a solar system of virtually
unlimited industrial material resources.
Interestingly, two additional potential sources of asteroid material
may be in orbit around the fourth planet of our solar system. Mars has
two moons, Phobos and Deimos. Both of these rocky moons resemble C
type asteroids and may have originated elsewhere in the solar system
before being permanently captured in orbit around the red planet. The
inner moon, Phobos, orbits approximately 9377 kilometers from the
center of Mars. The outer moon, Deimos, orbits more than 23,000
kilometers away from Mars. Our own Moon, orbits the Earth more than
384,000 kilometers away. It is interesting that Russia and China are
currently planning a joint robotic mission to Phobos to be launched in
2009 to analyze-- and retrieve-- a sample of the material from the
surface of Phobos for return to Earth......
http://newpapyrusmagazine.blogspot.com/2008/09/mining-moons-of-mars.html
Ian Parker
Should anyone want to go there in preferance to Mars there should be
plenty of water. You might even generate the hydrogen/oxygen required
for a Martian landing. Let's have an open mind! We could at a pinch
explore Mars by telepresence.
- Ian Parker
willie...@gmail.com
Here is a photograph of the martian moon that's causing this
speculation;
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/59/Stickney_mro.jpg
Definitely lots of interesting things that *might* be there. You've
got something like 10 trillion metric tons of materials. Loosely
compacted. Easily accessible. Bathed in sunlight 24/7 at about the
same intensity you get on Earth's surface. So, that's very
interesting
You do need a means to mine the moon and process it for the materials
you want while handling the materials you don't want.
While it is true you may use aerobraking to enter orbit around Mars
and then make use of resources - if they can be found - to make
hydrogen and oxygen from water resources on one or both of the moons -
to land and return, and even refuel for departure back to Earth (as
well as supply crews with water and oxygen on orbit) - there isn't
much advantage from doing the Zubrin approach of using aerobraking to
land, and then doing all that on the Mars surface.
In fact, landing on the Mars surface gives you access to Mars'
atmosphere which allows you to process the gases with pumps and
filters and cryo coolers. A far simpler and less risky process.
Aerobraking to the surface has been done;
http://sirius.bu.edu/aeronomy/withersmericarus2006.pdf
Mars entry speeds are about 5.7 km/sec with a descent angle of 11.5
degrees took 251 seconds. That's 2.2 gees acceleration (v=at --> a =
v/t) which is less than what a launch from Earth imposes.
To skip off the Mars atmosphere into Mars orbit requires that 3.6 km/
sec be lost, with a far shallower descent angle, at a lower gee
force. So that's easy to do too.
So, the big difference is being able to process the moons of mars into
useful stuff easier and more safely and more efficiently than doing
the same thing with Mars atmosphere.
As Zubrin and others show in their works you can aerobrake and land on
Mars empty, or nearly so and then use a nuclear or solar energy source
to extract water vapor from the Mars atmosphere, and break that water
down into oxygen and hydrogen. CO2 may be combined with H2 brought
from Earth, producing CH4 and H2O - and that water broken back into 2
H2 and O2 from 2 H2O.
4 H2 + CO2 ---> CH4 + 2 H2O
2 H2O + energy --> 2 H2 + O2
In the end, 2 H2 is converted to CH4 and O2 - which is far more
massive than the H2 brought along.
4 amu 16 amu 32 amu
48 amu total
So, each ton of hydrogen is converted into 12 tons of propellant by
absorbing 11 tons of CO2 from the martian atmosphere.
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/070507_methane_rocket.html
http://www.space-travel.com/reports/ATK_Test_Fires_Liquid_Oxygen_Methane_Rocket_Engine_In_Vacuum_999.html
A 3.5 km/sec exhaust speed, combined with a 5.7 km/sec transfer
velocity from the Mars surface so, this is a velocity ratio of 5.7/3.5
which means a propellant fraction of 80.4%. With an 8.6% structural
fraction - this leaves 11.0% payload fraction. But 6.7% of that
must be hydrogen - leaving 4.3% payload - which must include the power
plant, and atmospheric processing - but part of that could be left
behind.
Using hydrogen and extracting both hydrogen and oxygen from water
vapor present in Mars' atmosphere - provides a 4.5 km/sec exhaust
speed, produces a propellant fraction of 71.9%. With the same 8.6%
structural fraction - 19.5% payload fraction - a far simpler system,
but more power is needed.
Landing on Diemos or Phobos after aerobraking - reduces aerobraking
requirements slightly - lowering gee forces from 2.2 gees to 1.2
gees. Adds complexity of processing solids in the vacuum of space.
Adds the benefit of solar energy available at higher intensity 24/7.
To deorbit from the moons requires 2.6 km/sec delta vee capability.
With a 4.5 km/sec exhaust speed this produces a propellant fraction of
43.9% - with the same 8.6% structural fraction - leaves 47.5% payload
fraction.
The propellant processing station - can be left on orbit during
landing - the lander can be use over and over again to visit several
sites, while the orbiting station can reconnoiter sites - to provide
planetary coverage in a single mission.
Finally, the 3.6 km/sec delta vee requirement to escape from Mars
orbit to Earth transfer - using hydrogen/oxygen is provided by a
propellant fraction of 55.1% - with the same 8.6% structural fraction
- leaves 36% payload fraction.
So, a 100 ton payload arriving on the mars surface requires the
following departing mars, which gives the scale of teh ship and power
supply needed;
Approach Payload Vehicle Energy
Zubrin direct descent 4.3% 2,326 tons 577 MWh
HyZ direct descent 11.0% 909 tons 5,656 MWh
orbit phobos/diemos 36.0% 278 tons 1,729 MWh
surf phobos diemos 47.5% 106 tons* 660 MWh**
*NOTE: The surface vehicle is assumed to be 50 tons empty, while the
entire payload is 100 tons
*NOTE: The energy for the surface vehicle is for landing and take off
only.
A primary energy system - either nuclear or solar - large enough for
the HyZ approach would allow 6 landings and take offs at six different
sites on Mars while the return stage was being refilled.
So there is are some things to recommend this approach.
Of course a bimodal nuclear rocket engine - improves things greatly!
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/RT/2004/PB/PBM-mcguire.html
Here was have a self contained power supply for transit, as well as
for use on orbit around Mars. We also have a nuclear thermal rocket
capable of generating 8.5 km/sec to 9.5 km/sec exhaust speeds. That
means far less propellant is needed to depart mars orbit. Using 8.5
km/sec exhaust speed and 3.6 km/sec delta vee to leave mars orbit,
requires a propellant fraction of 34.6% Increasing structural
fraction to 15.4% - leaves 50% payload fraction throughout. Here we
assume half the payload - 50 tons is the same chemically powered
lander.
Using the bimodal nuclear engine to land on mars creates a nuclear
radiation hazard that presumably is taken care of in space by
approaching and departing the nuclear stage along shadow lines of the
gamma shield used in transit.
Here, despite large increase in structural fraction due to the nuclear
thermal engine, and shield, we only need 200 tons on departure and 100
tons of propellant - 622 MWh of energy which means that at the same
power level as the HyZ mission above, 7 to 8 landings may be made with
a chemical stage.
Aerobraking at Earth, with this system at mission end is also
possible. The nuclear component enters high orbit after aerobraking -
as it does in Mars. The lander then descends to land on Earth with
crew and retrieved materials.
To reuse the system, the lander is refilled and relaunched, along with
164 tons of liquid hydrogen. A total of 288 tons of payload. This is
about half the capacity of a super-heavy lift launcher massing 5,000
tons at lift off - I have designed to support the deployment of solar-
power satellites. Obviously, such a launcher would easily support the
return of two vehicles every synodic period.
The heavy launcher would also deploy a single launch to mars at the
outset - six launches deploying a fleet of six vehicles. This gives
sufficient backup to assure crew survival in the event of mechanical
failure of any one two or three critical systems. Then after the
first mission, the six vehicles are reprovisioned with three launches
before the next launch window opens.
This approach provides a low cost means - especially if power
satellite revenues are taxed to support space operations beyond Earth
- to maintain a continuous presence on Mars.
The bimodal engine is really a redesign of the 1950s era Rover/Nerva
program.
http://www.fas.org/nuke/space/c04rover.htm
With full support of military and intelligence agencies this could be
redeployed for about $6 billion today. The full-scale heavy lift
launcher, would cost another $7 billion. The Mars lander, and deep
space transfer technologies, related to Mars and deep space operations
would cost another $7 billion - a total of $30 billion - if approached
efficiently (not using current method of contractor management now
used by NASA).
I could be completed within 5 years (the next two synodic periods) and
result in a heavy lift launcher capable of supporting power satellites
(the powersats themselves are developed and paid for by commercial
interests, the launchers are built owned and operated by NASA in this
example, and rented to the powersat builders to cover costs
of deep space exploration stages and their operation by NASA and NSF
and universities)
http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.space.policy/2008-06/msg00005.html
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/searagon.htm
Return to the moon and expansion of the space station are a natural
consequence of this as well - paid for ultimately from power sales on
orbit.
Commercial and exploration success, leads naturally to even LARGER
launchers, and larger payloads, and more capable systems
http://sci.tech-archive.net/pdf/Archive/sci.space.policy/2008-08/msg00185.pdf
* * *
Here's more general information on the martian moons;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_(moon)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deimos_(moon)
PHOBOS (Fear)
Dimensions 26.8 × 22.4 × 18.4 km
Mean radius 11.1 km (0.002 1 Earths)
Surface area ~6 100 km² (11.9 µEarths)
Volume 5 680 km³ (5.0 nEarths)
Mass 1.072×10^16 kg (1.8 nEarths)
Mean density 1.887 g/cm³
Equatorial surface gravity 0.008 4–0.001 9 m/s² (8.4-1.9 mm/s²)
(860-190 µg)
Escape velocity 11.3 m/s (40 km/h)
Rotation period synchronous
Equatorial rotation velocity 11.0 km/h (at longest axis' tips)
Axial tilt 0°
Albedo 0.071
Temperature ≈233 K
DIEMOS (Dread)
Dimensions 15 × 12.2 × 10.4 km
Mean radius 6.2 km
Mass 1.48×10^15 kg
Mean density 1.471 g/cm³
Equatorial surface gravity 0.003 9 m/s² (3.9 mm/s²) 0.000 40 g (400
µg)
Escape velocity 5.6 m/s (20 km/h)
Rotation period synchronous
Albedo 0.068
Temperature ≈233 K
A more detailed analysis;
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/phobosdeimos2007/pdf/7022.pdf
There is ten trillion tons of materials, likely loosely compacted
Van Chocstraw
Invading foreign countries and blowing shit up has a higher priority.
--
<<//--------------------\\>>
Van Chocstraw
>>\\--------------------//<<
willie...@gmail.com
view us as an asset to be friends with if we tapped into the resources
of the solar system.
solar power arrives from the sun free of charge every day. 171,000x
more enegy strike earth than human industry uses. Capturing that
energy at very low cost and make it available world wide would
dramatically shift our place in the world to that of major consumer
and taker, to that of major producer and contributor, and rapidly
shift the politics of the middle east.
http://www.ohiochamber.com/governmental/pdfs/William%20Mook_021308.pdf
Once terrestrial solar arrays are installed, solar pumped lasers are
orbited. These involve large thin film concentrators that focus light
to 5,000x ambient intensity on high efficiency solar cells. These
cells drive free electron lasers that beam band gap matched energy to
terrestrial solar arrays built in the first phase. These thin film
concentrators are placed on orbit by the launchers described above;
http://www.algor.com/news_pub/cust_app/srs/images/prototyl.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_satellite
http://video.gearlive.com/video/article/q108-powerbeam-laser-wireless-power/
This allows the 210,000 sq miles of solar collectors installed on the
surface in the USA to not only provide all the world's oil, but by
augmenting with beamed power also to provide all the world's energy -
through hydrogen, by beaming bandgap matched energy to the solar
collectors non-stop from a number of satellites hovering above the USA
at GEO.
A collection of 660 comsats interconnected by open optical data links,
and each possessing a large phased array antenna to paint virtual
cells throughout the Earth provide direct low cost broadband
communication throughout the Earth and cislunar space.
By these means the USA may provide the world with ALL of its oil with
UScoal and hydrogen, and replace all coal and natural gas with
hydrogen shipments. Industrial growth to 16x today's levels may be
provided by hydrogen produced in the USA from the original solar panel
array. This is 70 years of energy growth at 4% per annum. Carbon
footprint is non-existant at that point.
With a doubling of efficiency over that period, economic output will
be 5% per annum over the same period. Today's global income averages
$10,000 per person per year. The USA averages $40,000 per person per
year. In 2079 - according to this growth rate - global income will
average $320,000 per person per year, while US income from fuel sales
alone will total $210,000 per person per year - which when added to
the $320,000 average - totals $530,000 per person per year for the
USA.
Early over this period a piloted grand tour of the solar system using
nuclear pulse rockets, that allow the USA to take control of all the
world's nuclear materials, and convert them to non-threatening nuclear
pulse units - through an enhanced non proliferation treaty. A dozen
mid range nuclear pulse ships - 2000 tons each
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)
are built and flown throughout the solar system - completing a survey
of all the solar system's small bodies inside the Kuiper Belt. This
technology is adapted to moving small bodies where desired in the
solar system. This may be used to identify and deflect errant
asteroids from collision with Earth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_deflection
and may also be used to bring RICH asteroids into orbit AROUND Earth
in medium Earth orbit - sun synchronous flying over the poles. So the
factory flies over everyone's head twice every 24 hours. Once the
asteroids are there remotely operated factories use abundant labor on
Earth, with energy beamed from GEO, process the asteroids into raw
materials, and finished goods. Materials are deorbited using solar
powered rail guns on orbit, and the materials flown directly to end
users anywhere on Earth in minutes. A ring of such stations provide
jobs for anyone anywhere, and income with which to buy the vast range
of products produced and delivered directly to users anywhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telerobotics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asimo
Asteroidal feedstock and remotely operated solar powered factories on
Earth orbit, will also produce large pressure vessels on orbit. These
are supplied with seeds and animals to create forests and farms on
orbit, to match the capacity of the factories on orbit. In this way,
increasing quantities of food and fiber match and exceed the
quantities of machinery and raw materials available to humanity
everywhere - despite a continuing decline in humanity's impact on the
Earth's biosphere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_colonization
The earth becomes one vast nature preserve surrounding residential
parks and recycling centers supplied with energy, information, and
materials off-world.
MEMs based systems
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEMS
provide a means to create tiny arrays of highly capable rockets
http://www.me.berkeley.edu/mrcl/rockets.html
assembled to create propulsive skins. These skins, are similar to
plasma HDTV screens, except instead of plasma pixels, they consist of
arrays of highly controllable rockets. Just as HDTV has 3 primary
colors, the surface consists of 3 principal directions - each
orthogonal to the other two - providing a range of directions from
every point on the surface. A shaped surface can then produce thrust
in any direction - and that propulsive effect can be varied just as
quickly and with the same complexity as a HDTV color image.
Since MEMs based rockets scale favorably with size, and since very
tiny engines pose no explosion risk, and since millions of rockets
operating simultaneously are super reliable - such rockets turn rocket
propulsion into a commodity
http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/CDReadyMJPC2005_1177/PV2005_3650.pdf
that commodity can also be powered by lasers from space - achieving
very high performance
http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/final_report/897Kare.pdf
This technology will work with rail gun launchers on orbit to
efficiently deliver products to any point on Earth directly from
factories farms and forests on orbit. As the technology develops, it
will be used to deliver packages from anyone to anyone else in
minutes. Further development will allow people to travel anywhere
from anywhere in less than 40 minutes. Finally, people will fly to
orbit as easily as they drive cross town today. This technical
capabity when combined with telecherics and telerobotics and
telepresence will provide a seamless means for people to live in a
single global village.
Large collection of space stations built on orbit from orbiting
asteroids, fed by remotely operated factories, farms and forests,
accessed by propulsive skin spacecraft of tremendous capabilities, all
at very low cost - provide a means for people to move to orbit to live
at higher living standards.
Well before the 2070 date mentioned above, Artificial Intelligence
will allow humans to transcend biological evolution;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularity_is_near
which means a discontinuous leap in capabilities. The teleoperated
robots of the first half of the 21st century, will grow ever more
capable, and operate at super-human intelligence levels in the last
half of the 21st century. At this point, humanity will be very
wealthy indeed. If half of all human workers by 2030 operate
telerobotic systems via a wireless global broadband internet - there
will be over 2 billion robots operating throughout human space.
Upgrading these robots with super human intelligence, increases their
output at least three and perhaps up to six times - increasing global
output from $175 trillion per year to $875 trillion per year - from a
global average of $25,000 per person per year to $125,000 per person
per year. (today's global product is $66 trillion per year)
By 2050 the exodus of humans from Earth will exceed population
growth. By 2070 the world's population will have shifted to Earth
orbit.
The development of sun orbiting solar power satellites inside the
orbit of Mercury, will allow beaming of powerful laser beams to Earth
orbiting powersats - multiplying again the capacity of the beamed
power network. Very large optical systems, driven by sunlight, will
not only power massive space stations and armies of robots to maintain
a very high living standard for the few humans who live and control
each station. But, the energy will also be used to move the stations
far from Earth - first into the solar system, and then to the
interstellar voids beyond.
http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/final_report/4Landis.pdf
This is possible with near term technology. Using this approach,
there is not need for greed or hunger. We have the means, and for the
past 50 years we have always had the means, to make this world into a
paradise of plenty and wonder. We have lacked only the will
imagination and courage to make it so.
Beyond this, there are even more interesting things.
Rand Simberg
willie...@gmail.com made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a
way as to indicate that:
>We wouldn't need to invade other countries, and other countries would
>view us as an asset to be friends with if we tapped into the resources
>of the solar system.
We don't "invade other countries" because we haven't been tapping the
resources of the solar system.
What an idiotic post.
willie...@gmail.com
> On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:53:27 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
> way as to indicate that:
>
> >We wouldn't need to invade other countries, and other countries would
> >view us as an asset to be friends with if we tapped into the resources
> >of the solar system.
>
> We don't "invade other countries" because we haven't been tapping the
> resources of the solar system.
>
> What an idiotic post.
I didn't say that - you think I did - who's the idiot? lol.
Had we spent half the $10 trillion we spent on nuclear and
conventional forces in the last half of the 20th century on space
travel programs outlined here, the world would be a far richer, and
more peaceful place.
BradGuth
nondisclosure rated, with more excluded evidence than our mutually
perpetrated cold-war, JFK and TWA flight 800 combined.
We can't even establish a platform of science instruments within
Selene L1. Is that pathetic, or what?
~ BG
>
> Return to the moon and expansion of the space station are a natural
> consequence of this as well - paid for ultimately from power sales on
> orbit.
>
> Commercial and exploration success, leads naturally to even LARGER
> launchers, and larger payloads, and more capable systems
>
> http://sci.tech-archive.net/pdf/Archive/sci.space.policy/2008-08/msg0...
>
> * * *
>
> Here's more general information on the martian moons;
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_(moon)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deimos_(moon)
>
> PHOBOS (Fear)
> Dimensions 26.8 × 22.4 × 18.4 km
> Mean radius 11.1 km (0.002 1 Earths)
> Surface area ~6 100 km² (11.9 µEarths)
> Volume 5 680 km³ (5.0 nEarths)
> Mass 1.072×10^16 kg (1.8 nEarths)
> Mean density 1.887 g/cm³
> Equatorial surface gravity 0.008 4–0.001 9 m/s²
> ...
>
> read more »
BradGuth
wrote:
True, more than you think.
~ BG
BradGuth
> On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:53:27 -0800 (PST), in a place far, far away,
> way as to indicate that:
>
> >We wouldn't need to invade other countries, and other countries would
> >view us as an asset to be friends with if we tapped into the resources
> >of the solar system.
>
> We don't "invade other countries" because we haven't been tapping the
> resources of the solar system.
>
> What an idiotic post.
Spoken like a true Rothschild Zionist/Nazi. Remember that, keeping
yourself in denial is what got Hitler dead.
~ BG
BradGuth
We're talking nearly $60T (not $10T) in 2009 dollars (not including
our national debt).
Our mutually perpetrated cold-war has cost the greater humanity and
environment of Earth hundreds of billions if not an average trillion
per year of our hard earned loot, and that extended expenditure of
taking our best talent and resources is what compounded itself into
the current mess we're in.
We could have been mining our Selene/moon, Venus and beyond by now if
10% of that loot had gotten spent on terrestrial energy alternatives,
and another 10% on space exploration, not to mention that our global
inflation wouldn't likely be a tenth of what it is today, and
otherwise human productivity would be soaring.
This is not to say that faith-based and their Mafia/cabal/political
wars of one sort or another wouldn't happen, just that they wouldn't
last very long or have caused nearly the collateral damage. Humans
will still go to war whenever they see no other viable alternative,
whereas artificially imposed inflation and subsequent poverty and
starvation will always be good enough motives for going to war.
~ BG
willie...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0904490.html
According to this its $22,792.36 billion - more than I thought, less
than you thought.
willie...@gmail.com
> And yet our physically dark as coal Selene/moon is forever taboo/
> nondisclosure rated, with more excluded evidence than our mutually
> perpetrated cold-war, JFK and TWA flight 800 combined.
>
> We can't even establish a platform of science instruments within
> Selene L1. Is that pathetic, or what?
>
> ~ BG
>
Brad,
Every single word you have uttered is absolutely and abjectly wrong at
every level of meaning!!
Please consider the following facts;
THE MOON'S SURFACE IS NO DARKER THAN THE EARTH'S SURFACE
That at 8% average albedo, the moon's surface is no darker than wet
soil, bodies of water, oceans, or forests of Earth - which are also
8%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Albedo-e_hg.svg
If you've ever been in a boat on a lake on a sunny day, or sitting in
a grassy field, on a sunny day, or on a beach on a sunny day - you'd
notice that despite only 8% of the sunlight reflecting back at you -
its pretty bright!! You'd also notice this if you'd actually get out
of the basement and look up at the moon on a dark cloudless night -
you'd see the moon shine like a beacon - despite its 8% albedo.
The only reason the Earth's albedo is higher than 8% is the presence
of a smoggy cloudy dusty atmosphere and ice fields near the poles.
If you've ever ridden in a car, or ridden a car around town on a sunny
day you'd realize too that the moon is brighter than asphalt (4%
instead of the moon's 8%)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albedo
and if you've ever driven a car around town in the summer, you'd know
its damned bright!! Bright enough to wear shades.
THERE IS NOTHING TABOO ABOUT OUR TRIP TO THE MOON
Significant data exists discussing the history of these historically
important voyages.
you can even obtain samples of lunar material to experiment with.
http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/index.cfm
Point is, the moon's surface is no darker than Earth's surface - its
the atmosphere and snow that make it a brighter astronomical object.
THE COLD WAR IS NOT A SECRET
The Library of Congress has detailed historical documents available to
anyone who requests information;
http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0010/coldwar.html
any of the minor details that remain secret to this day may be
requested via a FOIA request;
http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/how_to.htm
THE ASSASINATION OF JFK HAS NOTHING WHATEVER TO DO WITH ANY OF THE
OTHER SUBJECTS YOU MENTIONED - AND IT APPEARS THAT THE MYSTERY OF THE
ASSASINATION HAS FINALLY COME TO LIGHT!
http://www.legacyofsecrecy.com/
It has nothing at all to do with the moon.
TWA FLIGHT 800 EXPLOSION WAS DUE TO A FAULTY FUEL TANK AND HAS NO
CONNECTION WITH ANY OTHER THING MENTIONED IN YOUR RANT
http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/AAR0003.pdf
As of 2006 there were 18 fuel safety directives issued for B737s and 9
fuel safety directives issued for A320s.
There have been four fuel tank fires involving Boeing aircraft - one
including the TWA flight - so its not unique;
In 1990 when a Boeing 737-300 operated by Philippine Airlines exploded
on the ground while taxiing
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19900511-1&lang=en
In 1996, was the tragic incident when a Boeing 747-131 operated by
Trans World Airlines exploded in midair some 12 mins after take off
from JFK
http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/twa800/
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19960717-0&lang=en
In 2001, when a Boeing 737-400 of Thai Airways exploded, half an hour
before scheduled take off.
In 2006, when the left wing fuel tank of a Boeing 727 of Transmile Air
Service exploded in Bangalore while being towed on ground.
http://www.ntsb.gov/Pressrel/2006/060712a.htm
The Nation Transportation Safety Board says that available evidence
from these incidents suggests that the cause is the ignition of fuel-
air mixture in the center wing fuel tank.
The Caltech Explosion Dynamics Laboratory performed a series of
experiments which highlighted the flammability of fuel/air mixtures of
jet fuel
http://www.galcit.caltech.edu/EDL/projects/JetA/background.html
If you would actually trouble yourself to learn a few facts about
these matters you'd actually begin to heal whatever seems to cause
your serious disconnect with reality.
Good luck Sponge Bob!
BradGuth
>
> In 1996, was the tragic incident when a Boeing 747-131 operated by
> Trans World Airlines exploded in midair some 12 mins after take off
> from JFK
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/twa800/
>
>
> In 2001, when a Boeing 737-400 of Thai Airways exploded, half an hour
> before scheduled take off.
>
> In 2006, when the left wing fuel tank of a Boeing 727 of Transmile Air
> Service exploded in Bangalore while being towed on ground.
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/Pressrel/2006/060712a.htm
>
> The Nation Transportation Safety Board says that available evidence
> from these incidents suggests that the cause is the ignition of fuel-
> air mixture in the center wing fuel tank.
>
> The Caltech Explosion Dynamics Laboratory performed a series of
> experiments which highlighted the flammability of fuel/air mixtures of
> jet fuel
>
> http://www.galcit.caltech.edu/EDL/projects/JetA/background.html
>
> If you would actually trouble yourself to learn a few facts about
> these matters you'd actually begin to heal whatever seems to cause
> your serious disconnect with reality.
>
> Good luck Sponge Bob!
On average (meaning AVERAGE), full moonshine is worth 7.1% (that's
upon 'average' somewhat darker than coal), terribly sorry about that.
btw, the average albedo of Earth has white clouds, snow and ice, plus
a UV reactive atmosphere, whereas our Selene/moon does not. Go
figure.
btw once again, why not instead go after mining our second captured
moon Cruithne 3753, at not 1% the cost of doing a Mars moon?
~ BG
BradGuth
You really never like to use any honest kind of pesky "all-inclusive"
accounting. Can we assume you worked for ENRON or perhaps more
recently Madoff?
~ BG
BradGuth
My goodness. Take to mentioning the 2nd captured moon of Earth,
Cruithne 3753, and all the sudden the entire topic goes dead. Sorry
about that. I guess moons are not supposed to get so easily captured.
~ BG
disgoftunwells
whilst the Politburo elite meet in a luxury villa on the moon.
Ian Parker
>
> We might all be speaking Russian in the queue to buy rationed bread,
> whilst the Politburo elite meet in a luxury villa on the moon.- Hide quoted text -
>
That is total rubbish. The Russians were never in a position to launch
an attack in Europe. We can see this now.
War is no longer about the defense of one's country, war is about
intervention. Generally speaking interventions are expensive and
counter productive as was Iraq. Not only would technology have been
advanced but you would not get hoards of people wandering across the
Middle East. If the US had not had the capacity to strike down Iraq a
lot of misery would have been spared.
There is one other thing which I think William would probable agree
about and it is this. Asia is outproducing the US in terms of
engineers. Far too high a proportion of the US engineering effort is
directed to the military and far too little for the civil sector. Most
AI research in the US is military. Helicopters that can land on a
window sill etc. etc.
Japan and Korea have moved ahead and now the US has a balance of
payments deficit in high tech goods. Japan produces most of the
World's flat screens and the troubles of the auto industry are only
partly due to recession.
BTW - I do not know what certain posters have against robotics and VN
machines. They are certain to be invented but not here.
- Ian Parker
BradGuth
China and India will become the first and with the most in mass
produced off-world applied robotics and VN machines. The US is simply
too corrupt, too in debt and otherwise too busy screwing itself and
everyone else.
BHO and Chu may not be able to fix it. Shutting NASA down could be
their only viable option. The USAF can pick up whatever's hanging and
in need of getting deployed. Private funding can start picking up 50%
of the tab.
~ BG
~ BG
willie...@gmail.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Albedo-e_hg.svg
http://www.universetoday.com/guide-to-space/the-moon/moon-albedo/
The albedo of the moon - when fully illuminated by the sun - is 12%
sponge Bob! haha - the 7.1% is an average based on partial
illumination over the course of a month.
Details count - and as per usual - YOU ARE UNAWARE OF THEM!
Coal reflects anywhere from 4% to 9% of incident light - depending on
weathering and carbon content. On average coal is 1/2 to 1/3 as
bright as the moon under full illumination. On average the surface of
the moon is as bright as bodies of water, soil, forests and meadows of
Earth! Earth's AVERAGE albedo is higher than the moon's for one
reason and one reason only- the Earth's atmosphere and the
hydrological cycle. Ice fields and water clouds are nearly perfectly
reflective - which increases average albedo. Yet we humans rarely
operate above clouds and on ice floes. Walking on the moon in the day
is pretty much the same as walking in a meadow on a sunny day - except
the moon is sunnier than any place on Earth by about 50%!! So, your
characterization of the moon as a dark place is ridiculous - and your
'analysis' of the lunar photos on that basis is madness.
> btw, the average albedo of Earth has white clouds, snow and ice, plus
> a UV reactive atmosphere, whereas our Selene/moon does not. Go
> figure.
That's right! I pointed that out - but you totally miss the ponit.
People don't generally live above the clouds or on ice floes or
unbroken snowfields. People live in houses surrounded by yards and
asphalt or dirt streets or float in houseboats on bodies of water -
which all have the same or less reflectivity under full illumination
than the surface of the moon.
> btw once again, why not instead go after mining our second captured
> moon Cruithne 3753, at not 1% the cost of doing a Mars moon?
Where do you get your figures? Going to Cruithne is about the same
level of effort as going to Mars. Which is more like 100% of going to
mars - not 1% of going to mars
Also, why do you talk as if someone's ignoring Cruithne? Obviously
we're not. If anything, YOU are unaware again of the level of effort
- and the details that would allow you to make an accurate assessment.
Clearly Cruithne has an orbital period around the SUN of 1 year - it
doesn't orbit Earth - in fact its bean shaped orbit from Earth's
viewpoint - is off to the side, not centered on Earth at all!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3753_Cruithne
And it never gets closer than 12 million km and it won't do that until
2292AD -
The question any off-world mining company must ask is- what's the
total DELTA VEE needed to get the materials from this asteroid (or any
other celestial body) to Earth orbit? and what is the cost of
establishing the technology to do so? that will give you a mass flow
rate for a given power level, and the cost per unit mass to get stuff
back to Earth. Orbital periods will give you times. Mars takes about
a year. The moon half a week. Cruithne - 6 months to 18 months. The
asteroid belt - 3 years.
Generally speaking if you're within 15,000 km of Earth's surface -
you're within 1/10th second teleoperation response time - which means
real-time control of robots is feasible - which means you don't have
to have a large population of people in place on your asteroid.
Cruithne never gets less than 12.5 million km away - which is about
1,000x too far for real time operation.
I have proposed for 20 years now that small richly endowned bodies of
the solar system be captured and brought into sun synch polar orbits
above Earth, and then solar powered tele-operated factories be
deployed on them to produce things that are then de-orbited directly
to users on Earth using GPS guidance and solar powered rail guns - and
then MEMs based braking and landing rockets for final touch-down.
Hyperbolic excess delta vee for a minimum energy transfer range from 3
km/sec to 8 km/sec - for Cruithne - which is far larger than the moon
and mars. Transfer times range from 6 months to 18 months - which
again is far larger than the moon, and larger at times than some mars
transfers - which can occur in as little as 90 days.
http://ccar.colorado.edu/asen5050/projects/projects_2003/raine/c3.html
So, while the surface gravity of the moon and Mars add to delta vee -
its clear we cannot do better on Cruithne - though certainly we can do
Cruithne with the same tech we can do Mars.
A solar powered rail gun on Cruithne can send materials to Earth orbit
- to be processed by orbiting factories - and finished goods can
supply people on Earth - as well as industry on orbit. The same may
be said of any asteroid in the asteroid belt - any Earth crossing
asteroid - and the surfaces of the moon and mars.
One thing we can do with ANY asteroid - is move it to Earth orbit for
efficient processing with remotely controlled solar powered factories.
At 130 billion tonnes - Cruithne may be moved to orbit around Earth by
imparting 3 km/sec to it at minimum energy transfer.
Using shaped atomic charges - portions of the asteroid may be ejected
at 20 km/sec. To impart 3 km/sec to the asteroid using this approach
- to bring it into a safe orbit around Earth - requires;
u = 1- 1/exp(3/20) = 13.93%
that 18.1 billion tonnes of the asteroid be energized by atomic
explosions. With 30% of the atomic blasts showing up in the ejecta -
and 70% showing up in blast effects - we need 3.62e+21 joules of
energy. A kg of Uranium has 8.2e+13 joules. Used to initiate a
fusion reaction in deuterium- this can be increased to 3.8e+14 joules
per kg of deuterium. Since deuterium is far more abundant - and
cleaner - this is method of choice.
So dividing 3.62e+21/3.8e+14 = 9,530 metric tons of deuterium.
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2003PhRvB..68f4204D
At 140 kg per cubic meter this requires a ten thousand tanks each If
spherical they would each be 2.35 meters in diameter and massing less
than 1 metric ton. Each is equipped with a HEU initiator - made from
surplus weapons systems - modified for this purpose. There is also a
5 tonne iron plate about 10 meters in diameter, and the hydrogen tank
is actually shaped as well around the plate - to produce a shaped
charge - only a few meters thick. The surface of each charge is
covered with MEMs based rocket array providing a propulsive skin;
http://www.me.berkeley.edu/mrcl/rockets.html
think of an HDTV covered with rockets - instead of pixels - and
instead of 3 colors - there are three arrays - each pointing in a
different direction orthogonal to the other two - whose resultant of
the triad of engines in each thrustel - points normal to the
propulsive surface.
The same super-heavy RLV that puts up 21 km diameter inflatable
powersats also places 100 charges into orbit toward this (or any
other) asteroid. Each charge provides 1/10,000th of the total delta
vee for the mission. Each launcher provides 1% of the delta vee.
100 launches over the course of 6 months allows 100 satellites - each
with 100 charges - to arrive above Cruithne - the mission is then
carried out over the course of a 10 hours - with one blast occuring
every 3 seconds - and the next blast precisely positioned and oriented
- on the basis of the delta vee imparted by the preceding charges.
> ~ BG
As per usual - you are misinformed or incompletely informed and have
made erroneous conclusions based on that misinformation.
willie...@gmail.com
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Chomsky/ChomOdon_Traditional.html
Its been US policy to use its economic, political and military
strengths to maintain its dominant position in the world.
This has caused more problems for the world than it has solved for the
USA.
Nixon's caving to China to save the dollar, and his caving to the oil
companies for internal political reasons - have given China and Saudi
Arabia the levers to undermine the USA and end its dominance. The
terror acts of 9/11 are the opening moves on their end game. It is
not surprising that terror cells that plan to attack the USA operate
just inside the Chinese Western frontiers, while supplied with cash
from Saudi extremists and nuclear materials from a disintegrating
Soviet Union arsenal.
Already the USA has had an economic meltdown as Chinese and Saudi
money have been withdrawn from the US banking system, to sit on the
sidelines while they pump out plenty of oil and plenty of products.
When the USA prints more money to make up for this shortfall - and buy
low cost products and energy - they will then unload the money they
have on the sidelines while simultaneously increasing the prices of
everything they make. The USA did this to Indonesia after the
election of Suharto - and to Mexico - after the signing of NAFTA.
George Soros was the major actor - but basically - both nations were
totally destroyed economically by their currency going to nothing.
The same will happen to the USA if this is what is happening.
To add insult to injury - the Terror cells may succeed in detonation
of a nuclear device in the USA homeland over this period - this will
slam the US economy on its ass - and it won't get up for a generation
or two. Civil liberties will be a chapter in American History books
after that.
This is how it could end for the USA.
It doesn't have to go that way.
We can do something about our energy dependence, by tapping into solar
power and nuclear power cheaply.
We can do something about our manufacturing dependence by using
teleoperated factories and greenhouses in the US homeland - producing
everything efficiently enough to export throughout the world and be
competitive.
We can do something about resource dependence by tele-operated
factories on the ocean floor and in space - and developing the means
to capture asteroids and place them in sun synch polar orbits.
All improve security since we can import low wage labor - tele-
robotically - without importing large shiploads of stuff.
This puts more money into circulation and ends our dependence on
foreign liquidity to support our banking system as well.
It also means the logic that supports the Cold War put in place more
than 50 years ago - is ended.
BradGuth
> We wouldn't need to invade other countries, and other countries would
> view us as an asset to be friends with if we tapped into the resources
> of the solar system.
But you're not going to do anything to benefit humanity, at least not
within your lifetime.
>
> solar power arrives from the sun free of charge every day. 171,000x
> more enegy strike earth than human industry uses. Capturing that
> energy at very low cost and make it available world wide would
> dramatically shift our place in the world to that of major consumer
> and taker, to that of major producer and contributor, and rapidly
> shift the politics of the middle east.
>
> http://www.ohiochamber.com/governmental/pdfs/William%20Mook_021308.pdf
>
> Once terrestrial solar arrays are installed, solar pumped lasers are
> orbited. These involve large thin film concentrators that focus light
> to 5,000x ambient intensity on high efficiency solar cells. These
> cells drive free electron lasers that beam band gap matched energy to
> terrestrial solar arrays built in the first phase. These thin film
> concentrators are placed on orbit by the launchers described above;
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleroboticshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asimo
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligencehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularity_is_near
Such as when Mook or Mok Industries actually delivers their first
commercial tonne of hydrogen. Perhaps by 2050?
~ BG
BradGuth
>
> The albedo of the moon - when fully illuminated by the sun - is 12%
> sponge Bob! haha - the 7.1% is an average based on partial
> illumination over the course of a month.
>
> Details count - and as per usual - YOU ARE UNAWARE OF THEM!
Full moonshine of the visual spectrum does not illuminate Earth by
12%.
Moon surface IR of 1230 w/m2 is however quite interesting.
> Using shaped atomic ...
>
> read more »
But NASA and even Chu don't seem to care whatever you think, not for
the past 20 years or much less do they care about whatever evidence
you care to exclude as of today. It's exactly as though they've known
how bipolar (on again, off again) Mook can be.
btw, the NASA orbital simulator puts Cruithne much closer than 12e6
km.
~ BG
BradGuth
Gee whiz, I've been saying the exact same thing for decades. Guess
your bipolar medication is working again.
What the hell makes you think our government and DARPA/NASA have been
telling us the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and otherwise
not having been excluding evidence?
And once again, Mook offers no remorse, or would Mook have changed the
past on behalf of accomplishing anything for the better. Proof being
the past 20 years having nothing of Mook.
Your idea of science future is in of itself science future, if not
science fiction.
Apparently any idea of better focus or methods suggested for improved
efficiency, safety or wise investment, as given by anyone other than
Mook, isn't worth shit.
Exploring and mining the interior of our moon, or much less utilizing
it's L1, as well as accomplishing the planet Venus are good examples
of what you have always opposed, because you're just a downright
mainstream butt of a butthead.
You believe 100% of anything and everything published and/or supported
by our NASA, whereas their subjective science is more than
sufficient. Of course you also reverse each and every argument in
order to benefit only the Mook mindset.
The funny thing, you damn well know exactly what I mean, and yet you
claim not to understand whenever it suits your side. Apparently your
bipolarism and pretend-Atheism each has perks and benefits, just like
it did for Hitler, Bush and each of their Zionist puppet masters.
~ BG
willie...@gmail.com
No you haven't.
> Guess
> your bipolar medication is working again.
Nonsense
> What the hell makes you think our government and DARPA/NASA have been
> telling us the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and otherwise
> not having been excluding evidence?
Because the US government operates to benefit US citizens.
for what? More nonsense.
> or would Mook have changed the
> past on behalf of accomplishing anything for the better.
I have said since I started being asked by folks in Washington for my
opinion twenty years ago, that the Cold War policies of the USA do not
serve us well in the post-nuclear age. I gave talks in DC, at
conferences, when the Soviet Union was near collapse that we ought to
reach out to those republics and sponsor a manned grand tour of the
solar system using our nuclear arsenals as feedstock for non-
threatening propulsive units for a fleet of nuclear pulse rockets.
This would keep the weaponeers busy and employed, inspire universal
cooperation an attract youth worldwide toward a more modern scientific
approach to the world - one full of hope and possibility - and
undermine destructive alternatives like 11th century extremists.
Once the fleet was operational it would be child's play to establish a
city on the moon, an mars, and outposts throughout the solar system,
adapt the system toward surveying ALL the small bodies of the solar
system, and capturing the richest of those to bring into sun synch
polar orbit above Earth, and place on them solar powered remotely
operated factories.
In the process the USA would also build a global wireless broadband
network, to provide micro-banking telephone internet TV and other
services world wide - and add a global wireless telepresence
teleoperation suite so that people can live anywhere an dwork
anywhere. This would allow the USA to keep its manufacturing in the
USA while using low wage labor overseas - telerobotically. This would
have avoided the problem we now have with China. This would also
have set up the process whereby we can make use of the ocean floor
cheaply and captured asteroids cheaply.
We build a large array of solar panels in the US southwest to become
energy exporters by making hydrogen on a massive scale at very low
cost, and using that hydrogen instead of coal at coal fired power
plants. Then adding more hydrogen to the stranded coal to allow us to
make enough syncrude to export oil overseas while providing for ALL
our needs. This undermines the problem we have with Saudi Arabia
now.
Then, we use very large launchers to put up solar power satellite
network that beams band-gap matched laser energy from a solar pumped
laser to the terrestrial solar panels - increasing their output 8x.
This allows us to setup a global market to export liquid hydrogen from
the USA around the world - and support industrial growth to 8x current
levels.
As tele-robots become more productive and capable - and become less
and less dependent on their 'drivers' - productivity increases. This
labor productivity increase is matched by energy increase and
availability of raw materials - from orbit.
Building large orbiting power stations that operate in solar orbit
beyond Earth, only 8.3 million km in diameter - they beam laser
energy at 1,100x the intensity at Earth - and the GEO based solar
powersats are upgraded to reform the incoming high intensity laser
beams - to provide not only increased hydrogen output - 24x today's
energy level from the same ground installation - but also to send
beams reliably and safely directly to end users throughout the world,
and beyond providing energy per year at levels 10,000x the levels we
energy today.
This could have all been done in the last 30 years with existing
technology - and I have consistently promoted this technology at the
highest levels for the past 20 years.
The development of MEMs based propulsive skins - where each thrustel
consists of three orthogonally oriented rocket units - whose resultant
vector is normal to the skin surface - millions of microscopic rocket
elements are installed on a vehicle skin - much as plasma dots are
installed on a plasma HDTV - and controlled the same way to create
seamless dynamic thrust vectors on the surface - much as dynamic HDTV
color images are created on a plasma screen.
http://www.me.berkeley.edu/mrcl/rockets.html
Laser powered propulsive skins provide a vast array of new transport
technologies that commoditize rocket transport, and create a global
village - where anyone can travel anywhere in minutes - and even
attain orbit as easily as today we drive across town.
http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/CDReadyMJPC2005_1177/PV2005_3650.pdf
This combined with orbiting factories, which also support
infrastructure on orbit, using O'Neil style pressure vessels to create
farms and forests on orbit, all remotely tended, to produce food,
wood, and fiber in any quantity desired, delivered by solar powered
rail gun to anyone anywhere within minutes, with propulsive skin
landing safely reliably and cheaply anywhere from orbit.
> Proof being
> the past 20 years having nothing of Mook.
I've done more than you. Why do you insist on attacking others when
the only person you can really control is you? Obviously you like
painting others as lacking to avoid looking at your own lackluster
performance.
> Your idea of science future is in of itself science future, if not
> science fiction.
While many of the things I propose are fantastic, they are far from
fantasy.
>
> Apparently any idea of better focus or methods suggested for improved
> efficiency, safety or wise investment, as given by anyone other than
> Mook, isn't worth shit.
Why do you set up these red herrings? These false choices? Clearly
you have no desire whatever to be of real practical use to anyone.
Seek help from a competent mental health professional.
>
> Exploring and mining the interior of our moon,
The moon is too far away to conveniently send teleoperated humaniform
robots.
The interior of the moon is removed from solar power sources - though
systems can be set up to send power to the lunar interior. This
obviously will occur later - after we capture asteroids and setup
solar power satellites and mine the oceans - if need be.
> or much less utilizing
> it's L1,
You constantly tout this - but never provide a reasonable explanation
why you think its such a good idea. L1 again is too far away to
operate telerobots from Earth's surface in real time - so, it will
occur later. L1 does have some interesting possibilities - which have
been explored by NASA and others for decades.
> as well as accomplishing the planet Venus
Venus will be terraformed long after the Moon and Mars are terraformed
- Venus is a hellhole and a very difficult proposition. It will be
done - there will even be colonies floating 50 km above Venusian
surface before 2100 - but it won't be a resource of raw materials -
you can send tons of material to Earth from the asteroid belt for the
same effort it takes to send a kg of material from Venus' surface.
> are good examples
> of what you have always opposed,
Nonsense.
> because you're just a downright
> mainstream butt of a butthead.
No I'm not. You say that to take attention away from your
shortcomings.
> You believe 100% of anything and everything published and/or supported
> by our NASA,
Why not? They're honorable capable hard-working people. Three of
those adjectives don't apply to you.
> whereas their subjective science is more than
> sufficient.
Science is a greek word that stands for knowledge. Knowledge derived
from the natural world through a process called the scientific method
- which involves independent experimental confirmation of results.
Why wouldn't someone accept experimental confirmation of something?
> Of course you also reverse each and every argument in
> order to benefit only the Mook mindset.
Nonsense.
> The funny thing, you damn well know exactly what I mean,
haha - that's rich. Not only do I not know what you mean, I doubt
very much you know what you mean.
> and yet you
> claim not to understand whenever it suits your side.
Sides? More insanity.
> Apparently your
> bipolarism
Nonsense.
> and pretend-Atheism
A word grouping totally devoid of any real meaning.
> each has perks and benefits, just like
> it did for Hitler, Bush and each of their Zionist puppet masters.
More random words that have no real meaning - except to make you feel
better about yourself. Get help from a competent mental health
professional.
> ~ BG
BradGuth
“Because the US government operates to benefit US citizens” and lo and
behold so did Hitler, as well as a few too many bastard Popes before
his time. Was the Zionist/DARPA 35,000 fold gamma and X-ray dosage as
given into the 100,000 heads of those dark-skinned Jewish kids, what
you’d call a benefit to its citizens?
Clue No.1, your 9/11 did not by any long shot “benefit US citizens”,
nor much less has the bogus war that you’ve started and continually
perpetrate by fully supporting our corrupt government that has been
primarily republican and otherwise born-again Christian plus anti stem
cell to boot. Now that’s a republican kind of god that sucks and
blows almost as bad as you do.
As per this topic, moon mining should be focused upon Selene, and
nowhere other.
Your clearly republican Mafia cabal policy speaks loudly for itself.
There’s no way in hell that BHO or Chu are going to take anything of a
bipolar William Mook or Mok Industries seriously. Risk management
starts at the top, and this time around the top is not of your
republican Mafia cabal.
Others will likely accomplish greater things of green/renewable
energy, with perhaps 50/50 public matching support if not fully via
our federal government and public loot, and otherwise private
alternatives like Mok Industries, ENRON or Madoff will be given a wide
form of banishment, exclusion and/or isolation because of individuals
exactly like your bipolar and remorseless self that can’t be trusted.
Your selective or systematic lack of Selene L1 expertise is only
further proof-positive as to how little you really know, and more so
as to how ulterior motivated and/or how little you really care about
any future of humanity or that of salvaging our frail environment.
For you and your perpetual naysay mindset, I’m not going to repeat
myself on behalf of Selene L1 for the hundredth time, because you’re
not even remotely worth the effort.
Obviously if Hitler and his Zionist Nazi (aka Madoff) friends were in
charge, William Mook and other Rothschilds would be happy campers,
because everything you’ve ever had to say is a parrot replication of
whatever they’d have said. Other than that, you’re going great, and
we hope you live to the ripe old age of 200, when you’ll actually be
delivering your first commercial post WWIII tonne of hydrogen. at $10/
kg (+ 25% State/Federal road/excise tax), and these hydrogen
+atmosphere consuming small to mid-sized cars will only cost us
$50~100,000 each (mostly imported) because our union blocked assembly
lines are of the least automated. A decent full sized SUV or full
capacity and range capable pickup truck might cost only $250,000.
Unfortunately, the last time I’d checked, we don’t seem to have the
spare public loot or the time to screw around with your republican
Mafia cabal/cartel way of doing things.
~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG / “Guth Usenet”