Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
Rich
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
>
> http://cosmic.lifeform.org/?p=170
>
> I will never surrender.
Earth warming crack pot! If you like Pluto so much, go LIVE on that
-273K dirty snowball.
William Elliot
> Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
>
Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the galaxy.
Alex Terrell
Apart from Earth - Moon
Sorcerer
"Alex Terrell" <alext...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1156491704.6...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
Androcles
William Elliot
> | William Elliot wrote:
> | > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> | >
> | > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
> | > >
> | > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the galaxy.
> |
> | Apart from Earth - Moon
>
> Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
Thus double planet.
> Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
>
Thus planet and satellite.
steve....@nuclear.com
If climate scientists don't better police their discipline, could
climatology get formally categorized as a "dwarf science"?
Best wishes,
Steve Schulin
http://www.nuclear.com
beav
consideration of a barycenter is no longer part of the definition
>
>Androcles
>
Eric Chomko
Charon is much more like Pluto, than our moon is like the earth.
Eric Chomko
I agree with what you are saying but, what of the barycenter of the sun
and Jupiter? It is above the surface of the Sun.
Claude
> Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
>
It's just a frozen rock, no big deal. In other words you never fix
mistakes. That's why the world is fucked up.
--
Linux is just a fancy name for Windows blocker.
Claude Hopper
Sorcerer
"beav" <BEAV...@NETSCAPE.NET> wrote in message
news:vu8ue25hh9kd5p6cb...@4ax.com...
Correct, Pluto is just another a comet without a highly eccentric orbit.
| >Androcles
| >
|
Sorcerer
"Eric Chomko" <pne.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1156524071.9...@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
So Jupiter and the Sun form a binary system, all other planets
are moons of the sun.
This is impossible :
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/AlgolOrbit.gif
How much more massive would Jupiter have
to be to light up its own fuel like Sirius B?
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001006.html
Androcles
Ben Newsam
> So Jupiter and the Sun form a binary system, all other planets
> are moons of the sun.
"Cats is Dogs, and Rabbits is Dogs, and so's Parrots; but this 'ere
Tortoise is an Insect, so there ain't no charge for it!"
--
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Eric Chomko
Sorcerer wrote:
> "Eric Chomko" <pne.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:1156524071.9...@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> |
> | William Elliot wrote:
> | > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Sorcerer wrote:
> | > > | William Elliot wrote:
> | > > | > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> | > > | >
> | > > | > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
> | > > | > >
> | > > | > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the galaxy.
> | > > |
> | > > | Apart from Earth - Moon
> | > >
> | > > Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
> | >
> | > Thus double planet.
> | >
> | > > Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
> | > >
> | > Thus planet and satellite.
> |
> | I agree with what you are saying but, what of the barycenter of the sun
> | and Jupiter? It is above the surface of the Sun.
>
> So Jupiter and the Sun form a binary system, all other planets
> are moons of the sun.
>
> This is impossible :
> http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/AlgolOrbit.gif
That looks more like what Pluto and Charon are doing. The sun makes a
small cricle every 12 years. A very small circle.
>
> How much more massive would Jupiter have
> to be to light up its own fuel like Sirius B?
> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001006.html
According to this website 60 times its current mass:
http://starryskies.com/articles/dln/1-02/jupiter.star.html
That seems like a lot but when one considers that the moon is 1/81 of
the earth's mass, it doesn't seem that much. Another way of looking at
it is that if the moon was the size of Jupiter, then the earth would be
a star.
Eric
> Androcles
Sorcerer
|
| Sorcerer wrote:
| > "Eric Chomko" <pne.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
| > news:1156524071.9...@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
| > |
| > | William Elliot wrote:
| > | > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Sorcerer wrote:
| > | > > | William Elliot wrote:
| > | > > | > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| > | > > | >
| > | > > | > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
| > | > > | > >
| > | > > | > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the
galaxy.
| > | > > |
| > | > > | Apart from Earth - Moon
| > | > >
| > | > > Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
| > | >
| > | > Thus double planet.
| > | >
| > | > > Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
| > | > >
| > | > Thus planet and satellite.
| > |
| > | I agree with what you are saying but, what of the barycenter of the
sun
| > | and Jupiter? It is above the surface of the Sun.
| >
| > So Jupiter and the Sun form a binary system, all other planets
| > are moons of the sun.
| >
| > This is impossible :
| > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/AlgolOrbit.gif
|
| That looks more like what Pluto and Charon are doing. The sun makes a
| small cricle every 12 years. A very small circle.
Exactly right. But if it were taking 70 hours per circle Jupiter would be
mighty close to the sun and the sun would still have to move in a circle...
but then Jupiter would not be a gas giant, it would boil away and its
gravity would not be enough to hold it together.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060807.html
| >
| > How much more massive would Jupiter have
| > to be to light up its own fuel like Sirius B?
| > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001006.html
|
| According to this website 60 times its current mass:
| http://starryskies.com/articles/dln/1-02/jupiter.star.html
|
| That seems like a lot but when one considers that the moon is 1/81 of
| the earth's mass, it doesn't seem that much. Another way of looking at
| it is that if the moon was the size of Jupiter, then the earth would be
| a star.
Yes indeed. And the moon takes 28 days to orbit the Earth, not 3 days.
If it were the tides would be enormous, swamping entire continents.
So... is Algol a binary?
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/Algol.htm
Androcles
|
Eric Chomko
Hard to say exactly. At 70 hours one of those solar flairs could do
lots of damage.
Even Mercury at 88 days takes a beating from the sun. I don't doubt
that binary or multiple star systems of several stars have proximity
limits in order to stay whole and still cohabitate. I'm sure well over
half of all stellar systems consist of more than one star.
> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060807.html
>
>
> | >
> | > How much more massive would Jupiter have
> | > to be to light up its own fuel like Sirius B?
> | > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001006.html
> |
> | According to this website 60 times its current mass:
> | http://starryskies.com/articles/dln/1-02/jupiter.star.html
> |
> | That seems like a lot but when one considers that the moon is 1/81 of
> | the earth's mass, it doesn't seem that much. Another way of looking at
> | it is that if the moon was the size of Jupiter, then the earth would be
> | a star.
>
> Yes indeed. And the moon takes 28 days to orbit the Earth, not 3 days.
> If it were the tides would be enormous, swamping entire continents.
>
> So... is Algol a binary?
Only after you compile it. (Sorry, computer programming joke as Algol
is also a computer language).
Not only a binary but an eclipsing binary which means that its
magnitude changes depending the motion of smaller component. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algol
Eric
> http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/Algol.htm
>
> Androcles
> |
Sorcerer
Why is that hard to say? You've just said it.
| Even Mercury at 88 days takes a beating from the sun.
You bet it does.
| I don't doubt
| that binary or multiple star systems of several stars have proximity
| limits in order to stay whole and still cohabitate. I'm sure well over
| half of all stellar systems consist of more than one star.
I doubt it strongly. Do you have any EVIDENCE to support your certainty?
Or just the conjecture of an 18-year-old kid in 1782 who was dead at
the age of 22?
When one sheep bleats "baa" the rest soon follow, don't they?
|
| > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060807.html
| >
| >
| > | >
| > | > How much more massive would Jupiter have
| > | > to be to light up its own fuel like Sirius B?
| > | > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001006.html
| > |
| > | According to this website 60 times its current mass:
| > | http://starryskies.com/articles/dln/1-02/jupiter.star.html
| > |
| > | That seems like a lot but when one considers that the moon is 1/81 of
| > | the earth's mass, it doesn't seem that much. Another way of looking at
| > | it is that if the moon was the size of Jupiter, then the earth would
be
| > | a star.
| >
| > Yes indeed. And the moon takes 28 days to orbit the Earth, not 3 days.
| > If it were the tides would be enormous, swamping entire continents.
| >
| > So... is Algol a binary?
|
| Only after you compile it. (Sorry, computer programming joke as Algol
| is also a computer language).
|
| Not only a binary but an eclipsing binary which means that its
| magnitude changes depending the motion of smaller component. See:
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algol
Indeed it is, but are you a sheep or a scientist?
Tell me, what is the purpose of a newsgroup if all the sheep bleat
the same sound? Just to make silly jokes?
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/Algol.htm
What are you scared of, ridicule by sheep?
Androcles
Dirk Van de moortel
"Sorcerer" <Headm...@hogwarts.physics_a> wrote in message news:QZIHg.168423$9d4.1...@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "Eric Chomko" <pne.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:1156534210.3...@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
> | Not only a binary but an eclipsing binary which means that its
> | magnitude changes depending the motion of smaller component. See:
> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algol
>
>
> Indeed it is, but are you a sheep or a scientist?
> Tell me, what is the purpose of a newsgroup if all the sheep bleat
> the same sound? Just to make silly jokes?
> http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/Algol.htm
>
> What are you scared of, ridicule by sheep?
Now now, Loa Loa, is that a way to talk to people?
What happened to your usual style?
http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/Androrgasm.html
Dirk Vdm
Sorcerer
"Dirk Van de moortel" <dirkvand...@ThankS-NO-SperM.hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:KbJHg.40938$uh7.5...@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
|
| "Sorcerer" <Headm...@hogwarts.physics_a> wrote in message
news:QZIHg.168423$9d4.1...@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
| >
| > "Eric Chomko" <pne.c...@verizon.net> wrote in message
| > news:1156534210.3...@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
|
| [snip]
xi, x'.
What's the difference, Dork the dork?
Androcles
Eric Chomko
The hard part is having an object orbit the sun in a 70 hour period.
There may actually be a minimum distance and therefore period which an
object must be beyond 70 hours to not get suck into the sun. Get it
now?
>
>
> | Even Mercury at 88 days takes a beating from the sun.
>
> You bet it does.
>
> | I don't doubt
> | that binary or multiple star systems of several stars have proximity
> | limits in order to stay whole and still cohabitate. I'm sure well over
> | half of all stellar systems consist of more than one star.
>
> I doubt it strongly. Do you have any EVIDENCE to support your certainty?
This link says 90% of all star systems are more than one according to
this link:
http://alumni.imsa.edu/~anneka/binaries/formation.html
> Or just the conjecture of an 18-year-old kid in 1782 who was dead at
> the age of 22?
> When one sheep bleats "baa" the rest soon follow, don't they?
I once saw a reference from Asimov, I think, that it was more like 60%,
but I don't have it handy.
> |
> | > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060807.html
> | >
> | >
> | > | >
> | > | > How much more massive would Jupiter have
> | > | > to be to light up its own fuel like Sirius B?
> | > | > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001006.html
> | > |
> | > | According to this website 60 times its current mass:
> | > | http://starryskies.com/articles/dln/1-02/jupiter.star.html
> | > |
> | > | That seems like a lot but when one considers that the moon is 1/81 of
> | > | the earth's mass, it doesn't seem that much. Another way of looking at
> | > | it is that if the moon was the size of Jupiter, then the earth would
> be
> | > | a star.
> | >
> | > Yes indeed. And the moon takes 28 days to orbit the Earth, not 3 days.
> | > If it were the tides would be enormous, swamping entire continents.
> | >
> | > So... is Algol a binary?
> |
> | Only after you compile it. (Sorry, computer programming joke as Algol
> | is also a computer language).
> |
> | Not only a binary but an eclipsing binary which means that its
> | magnitude changes depending the motion of smaller component. See:
> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algol
>
>
> Indeed it is, but are you a sheep or a scientist?
A student of science, so more like a scientist than a sheep.
> Tell me, what is the purpose of a newsgroup if all the sheep bleat
> the same sound? Just to make silly jokes?
Hopefully, we share things to the point of actal learning. This thread
has been good beause it contains some pretty good reference links.
> http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/Algol.htm
>
> What are you scared of, ridicule by sheep?
No.
Eric
> Androcles
Sorcerer
Get what? I can't change empirical data. You are stuck with 70 hours
periodicity no matter what you say.
Variable Stars The prototypical example is Algol (or Beta.Perseus) with a
period of 2.87 days.
Constellation Perseus Double star gamma Per, epsilon Per, zeta Per, eta Per,
tau Per; Occulting variable star beta Per (period: 2,87 days);
http://www.citebase.org/abstract?id=oai%3AarXiv.org%3Aastro-ph%2F9907331
| > | Even Mercury at 88 days takes a beating from the sun.
| >
| > You bet it does.
| >
| > | I don't doubt
| > | that binary or multiple star systems of several stars have proximity
| > | limits in order to stay whole and still cohabitate. I'm sure well over
| > | half of all stellar systems consist of more than one star.
| >
| > I doubt it strongly. Do you have any EVIDENCE to support your certainty?
|
| This link says 90% of all star systems are more than one according to
| this link:
| http://alumni.imsa.edu/~anneka/binaries/formation.html
| > Or just the conjecture of an 18-year-old kid in 1782 who was dead at
| > the age of 22?
| > When one sheep bleats "baa" the rest soon follow, don't they?
|
| I once saw a reference from Asimov, I think, that it was more like 60%,
| but I don't have it handy.
Sirius is a binary, period 50 years. That's reasonable.
As you say,
"The hard part is having an object orbit the sun in a 70 hour period."
Algol has period of 2.87 days (68.88 hours), I've seen it myself.
Anyone can look up, although estimating magnitude takes practice.
Maybe it's a beat frequency. I'm open to suggestion if you can
show some math and be plausible.
Ok, then let's get serious. Why does light from Algol vary every
70 hours?
a) Don't know <shrug>
b) It is eclipsed by a dark companion, Goodricke said so
and all the sheep bleat the same tune.
c) Other.
|
| > Tell me, what is the purpose of a newsgroup if all the sheep bleat
| > the same sound? Just to make silly jokes?
|
| Hopefully, we share things to the point of actal learning. This thread
| has been good beause it contains some pretty good reference links.
Ok, let's do it.
| > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/Algol.htm
| >
| > What are you scared of, ridicule by sheep?
|
| No.
Then look out, because the sheep want you hear you say "baa" as
they do if you discuss science with me.
I'm despised, I refuse to say "baa". I want to find about Nature,
not learn what I'm told to learn.
Talking about it generates ideas to be tried and rejected, but
hopefully with intelligence we could come up with a viable solution.
I don't really give a hoot whether anyone calls Pluto a planet or an
icecube, that's not science, that's political correctness.
Algol has a period of 70 hours, I say it has a planet with an
orbital period of 70 hours that is further away than any gigantic
"eclipsing companion", the star moves around a barycentre in
that time and the velocity of light is very much dependent on
the motion of the source because that is the only plausible
explanation.
Now it is up to you to raise objection, but we cannot argue
the 70 hours.
My reasons got deeper, actually. There are dwarf cepheids,
cepheids, recurrent novae and flare stars to consider, as
well as Georges Sagnac's interferometer.
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Sagnac/Sagnac.htm
Androcles
Retief
>Rich wrote:
>> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
>> > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
>> Earth warming crack pot! If you like Pluto so much, go LIVE on that
>> -273K dirty snowball.
Well, there's nothing wrong with Pluto. And (the non-planet) Neptune
has not yet cleared Pluto from its orbit... ;)
>If climate scientists don't better police their discipline, could
>climatology get formally categorized as a "dwarf science"?
You make the assumtion that Elifritz qualifiies as a climate
scientist... Do a Google search and he appears as an irrational wacko
-- he apparently can't defend his asserted "science" from a scientific
standpoint...
Retief
steve....@nuclear.com
Retief wrote:
> steve....@nuclear.com wrote:
> >Rich wrote:
> >> Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
> >> > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
> >> Earth warming crack pot! If you like Pluto so much, go LIVE on that
> >> -273K dirty snowball.
> >If climate scientists don't better police their discipline, could
> >climatology get formally categorized as a "dwarf science"?
>
> You make the assumtion that Elifritz qualifiies as a climate
> scientist...
Hi Retief - actually, I was referring to such rotten fruits of climate
science as the IPCC's embrace of Mann et al. hockey stick as policy
relevant in the WG1 TAR. The connection to this thread was via the
"dwarf planet" status assigned to Pluto -- I was pondering its possible
analog in categorizing the sorry state of a scientific discipline. I've
decided that applying the term "dwarf science" to climatology is likely
an affront to dwarfs of good will everywhere, so I will not use it.
Thanks and best wishes,
Steve Schulin
http://www.nuclear.com
Retief
<cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
>> You make the assumtion that Elifritz qualifiies as a climate
>> scientist... Do a Google search and he appears as an irrational wacko
>> -- he apparently can't defend his asserted "science" from a scientific
>> standpoint...
>
>Actually, I have a website and a couple of BLOBS, where anybody who
>happens to be an astute observer, can visit and quickly formulate their
>own opinions, rather than listening to your crackpot ideas on reality.
What? Rational "scientific" statements from Elifritz like this:
http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/moveabletype/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=746
"Hurricanes and Global Warming : It's about time that people see
Pielke, Gray, Landsea and Mayfield for what they truly are -
obsolete liars."
Posted by Thomas Lee Elifritz at March 17, 2006 12:02 PM
"Thomas Lee Elifritz-
We welcome all sorts of substantive discussions on this site. If
you have something of substance to say, then let us know. Please
do however take the nasty comments elsewhere.
Thanks!"
Posted by Roger Pielke Jr. at March 17, 2006 09:15 PM
Retief
p...@charter.net
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:10:07 -0500, Thomas Lee Elifritz
> <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
>
> >> You make the assumtion that Elifritz qualifiies as a climate
> >> scientist... Do a Google search and he appears as an irrational wacko
> >> -- he apparently can't defend his asserted "science" from a scientific
> >> standpoint...
> >
> >Actually, I have a website and a couple of BLOBS, where anybody who
> >happens to be an astute observer, can visit and quickly formulate their
> >own opinions, rather than listening to your crackpot ideas on reality.
>
> What? Rational "scientific" statements from Elifritz like this:
> http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/moveabletype/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=746
>
> "Hurricanes and Global Warming : It's about time that people see
> Pielke, Gray, Landsea and Mayfield for what they truly are -
> obsolete liars."
> Posted by Thomas Lee Elifritz at March 17, 2006 12:02 PM
So why do these individuals continue to lie, after they have been
clearly demonstrated to be liars? Inquiring minds want to know.
OM
wrote:
>You make the assumtion that Elifritz qualifiies as a climate
>scientist... Do a Google search and he appears as an irrational wacko
...He's also a neo-Nazi anti-Semite troll. Just killfile him and file
a complaint with his ISP. Be sure to quote one of his many "let's kill
all the Jews" comments when you do.
OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[
Retief
Elifritz) wrote:
>> What? Rational "scientific" statements from Elifritz like this:
>> http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/moveabletype/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=746
>>
>> "Hurricanes and Global Warming : It's about time that people see
>> Pielke, Gray, Landsea and Mayfield for what they truly are -
>> obsolete liars."
>> Posted by Thomas Lee Elifritz at March 17, 2006 12:02 PM
Tommy Lee thinks that this is what passes for scientific discourse?
>So why do these individuals continue to lie, after they have been
>clearly demonstrated to be liars? Inquiring minds want to know.
Tommy Lee thinks that an accusation by Tommy Lee constitutes "proof"?
Maybe Tommy Lee should publish his results, showing that these
individual are in error. But nay, Tommy Lee would rather flame and
insult them from an obscure newsgroup, where he won't risk retribution
in the scientific journals...
Retief
The Director
Retief wrote:
> On 26 Aug 2006 13:29:01 -0700, p...@charter.net (AKA Tommy Lee
> Elifritz) wrote:
>
> >> What? Rational "scientific" statements from Elifritz like this:
> >> http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/moveabletype/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=746
> >>
> >> "Hurricanes and Global Warming : It's about time that people see
> >> Pielke, Gray, Landsea and Mayfield for what they truly are -
> >> obsolete liars."
> >> Posted by Thomas Lee Elifritz at March 17, 2006 12:02 PM
>
> Tommy Lee thinks that this is what passes for scientific discourse?
There isn't any more credible dissenting discourse on global warming
enhancement of hurricanes, it's a fundamental thermodynamic result. Max
Mayfield has resigned. He knows he is henceforth no longer able to lie
at the highest levels of government about global warming enhancement of
hurricane intensity. All of these individuals have disgraced science.
They get what they deserve. It should be far worse than a cushy
retirement package, but at least these lesser individuals are not in
positions of power, merely in positions of disinformation. I'm going
after the larger fish in the sea, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and his
cronies, and Conrad Lautenberg and Michael Griffin, and their
subordinates. It's going to be very hard for these individuals to cope
with an loud, opinionated and very vocal and ornery scientist with a
major scientific result under his belt :
http://www.lifeform.org/bion.htm
Let me explain it to you, crackpot, you ain't seen nothing yet.
Rand Simberg
Director" <p...@charter.net> made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:
>> >> "Hurricanes and Global Warming : It's about time that people see
>> >> Pielke, Gray, Landsea and Mayfield for what they truly are -
>> >> obsolete liars."
>> >> Posted by Thomas Lee Elifritz at March 17, 2006 12:02 PM
>>
>> Tommy Lee thinks that this is what passes for scientific discourse?
>
>There isn't any more credible dissenting discourse on global warming
>enhancement of hurricanes, it's a fundamental thermodynamic result. Max
>Mayfield has resigned. He knows he is henceforth no longer able to lie
>at the highest levels of government about global warming enhancement of
>hurricane intensity.
<rest of insanity snipped>
I see that Elifritz has changed his address to escape the killfiles.
Or set up a sock puppet.
In you go. Stop squirming.
*plonk*
The Director
Rand Simberg wrote:
> I see that Elifritz has changed his address to escape the killfiles.
> Or set up a sock puppet.
No, just a temporary google account while my ISP gets their newsgroup
problems sorted out. Don't worry, I'm still me. I have changed, though,
I evolve, you know, like the universe, and our understanding of it. I
know how that whole evolution thing is completely alien to you.
Jim Davis
> It's going to be very hard for these individuals to cope
> with an loud, opinionated and very vocal and ornery scientist
> with a major scientific result under his belt :
>
> http://www.lifeform.org/bion.htm
delusions of grandeur - a delusion (common in paranoia) that you are
much greater and more powerful and influential than you really are
Jim Davis
The Director
So you think metal ammonia solutions, bismuth - bismuth triiodide
solutions and the metal insulator transition is delusional. Ok. Got it.
Got any other goods delusions to share with us?
I especially like there is the there is no global warming delusion.
Heh heh there's a bunch of good ones out there.
I especially love the Goddard one.
NobodyYouKnow
"Jim Davis" <jimd...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Xns982C9522C9542ji...@85.227.11.7...
Ah.. his fame precedes him. He really is influential and well known though.
Well known: Who can escapte his endless rants.
Influencial: If he says it, I can be almost sure that it is bullshit... He
thus has influence on my opinions..
The Director
Yes, I'm really ranting on in this thread.
My BLOB posts are well know for their wordiness.
Thank you so much for reading my lengthy usenet rants.
OM
>No, just a temporary google account while my ISP gets their newsgroup
>problems sorted out.
...Read: he got punted again for spouting his neo-Nazi, anti-Semitic,
hate-filled rantings.
<RE-PLONK>
OM
wrote:
>delusions of grandeur - a delusion (common in paranoia) that you are
>much greater and more powerful and influential than you really are
...Which simply proves he does keep a spooge-stained copy of "Mein
Kampf" under his pillow when it's not hidden in his buttcrust-laden
shorts.
OM
wrote:
>Tommy Lee thinks that this is what passes for scientific discourse?
...Tommy Lee thinks the Holocaust was a myth that didn't go far
enough. Which shows you just how much of a total whackjob he is. Since
we can't put a bullet in his brain to help remove a prime source of
pollution both mentally and atmospherically, just killfile the Nazi
bastard and put him out of our misery. Responding to him just allows
him to defeat our filters.
Scott Hedrick
Got a Dell Dimension 2400 with a Celeron, what problems would I have
replacing it with a Pentium 4? Same socket.
Jeff Findley
"Scott Hedrick" <dinehnm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rStIg.16105$w7....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Since you don't respond to email, thought I'd ask this here:
>
> Got a Dell Dimension 2400 with a Celeron, what problems would I have
> replacing it with a Pentium 4? Same socket.
WTF?
Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)
Dave Michelson
> "Scott Hedrick" <dinehnm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Since you don't respond to email, thought I'd ask this here:
>>
>> Got a Dell Dimension 2400 with a Celeron, what problems would I have
>> replacing it with a Pentium 4? Same socket.
>
> WTF?
I assume that OM isn't answering emails from Scott again.
Of course, Dell isn't OM's favourite computer vendor.
--
Dave Michelson
da...@ece.ubc.ca
Scott Hedrick
"Jeff Findley" <jeff.f...@ugs.nojunk.com> wrote in message
news:c4aa$44f327bd$927a2cf9$19...@FUSE.NET...
>
> "Scott Hedrick" <dinehnm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:rStIg.16105$w7....@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
>> Since you don't respond to email, thought I'd ask this here:
>>
>> Got a Dell Dimension 2400 with a Celeron, what problems would I have
>> replacing it with a Pentium 4? Same socket.
>
> WTF?
It's self-explanitory.
OM
<dinehnm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Since you don't respond to email, thought I'd ask this here:
...Who? Me?
>Got a Dell Dimension 2400 with a Celeron, what problems would I have
>replacing it with a Pentium 4? Same socket.
...We're talking the desktop, right? IIRC, that's based off a
Zuul-descendant board, probably the Zuul III, but I'm not sure as that
came about after I left, but was on the drawing board at the time.
Should be a simple pop-n-drop, with a speed limit of 2.54GHz on the
proc. Might need a BIOS flash upgrade, but it should work with no
probs.
OM
wrote:
>Of course, Dell isn't OM's favourite computer vendor.
...Ok, let me set the record straight on my opinion of Dell Computer
Corporation:
1) The hardware, for the most part, is still among the best on the
market. Reliability isn't what it was prior to the "silo methodology"
implementation in 1999 that clusterfucked the company from within, but
still fairly solid when compared to the likes of Toshiba, Sony and
anyone other than HewPac.
2) Internally, however, the company has major mid-level management
problems stemming from an infection caused by Dell's hiring of a whole
shitload of recently-terminated IBM mid-level managers. These guys
were part of the reason IBM lost their hold on the PC market, and
Dell's hiring them was perhaps one of the most suicidal moves in the
history of the PC industry. These dipshits were responsible for the
"silo methodology", and were the ones who pushed Dell into the
unnecessary layoffs in 2001. While many of those bastards were hoisted
by their own petards by 2002, far too many of them managed to survive
by sacrificing their own, and are still running the company into the
ground. Kevin Rollins should know better, considering his own comments
about ex-IBeeMers in '96 to an all-hands meeting I happened to attend.
3) There's one area of hardware that has consistently, however, had a
major problem with reliability, and that's the notebook power supply
division. In the past 15 years, due to constant severe mismanagement,
they've had no less than 22 different major issues with batteries and
power supplies catching fire or severely overheating. Granted, they've
only had like four total recalls, but those were the *announced* ones.
The others were handled quietly through tech support simply giving
fixed replacements without question, which usually shuts people up.
Still, I'd trust a Dell C-series notebook over someone else's
chrome-plated lightweight junk because if I drop it, I know it'll
either a) survive or b) if it breaks I know how to repair the damn
thing, and probably have the spare parts as long as it's not that 1400
wide overpriced LCD.
...Now, some of you are wondering what the "silo methodology" I'm
bitching about is. Basically, Dell has been divided into Lines of
Business (LOB's): Dimension, Optiplex, Precision, and
Latitude/Inspiron. Dimension was for the home user that required
special upgrades at a cheap price. Optiplex was for the home/office
user that needed several machines at a semi-bulk rate that were all
configured the same with few pre-sale upgrade options. Precision was
the server line, and Latitude/Inspiron(*) were the notebooks(**).
Prior to January 1999, if you worked under an LOB, you had to know
everything about every component in every system under that LOB. You
had to know how the sound cards worked with the hard drives, and how
the hard drives worked with the video cards, and how the network cards
worked with the sound cards, etc, etc. You specialized in the systems
and how the components interacted with one another. It was the way
things should have been done, and systems got through engineering test
and into production with the fewest numbers of BIOS and hardware
revisions than any other PC manufacturer.
...In December 1998, at the company Chrisnukkah party, two senior Dell
managers - yep, both ex-IBeeMers - cornered a rather drunken Michael
Dell and his partner, Mort Tophler, and sold them a change in
methodology they claimed would save the company money by making it
more efficient. Instead of making everyone responsible for every
system in an LOB, they would redivide everyone into "silos", and
assign one specific component to each silo. The silos would then be
responsible for how, say, a sound card works on each of the systems
under an LOB, and only on how the sound card works with the base
system. The idea on how it would save money is that instead of having
one tech working on each system in each LOB, you'd have one tech
working on one component that would be used on all LOBs. The "logic"
was that you could reduce the tech staff by 1/3 to 1/4th, which a
drunken Mike and a tipsy Mort jumped on like white on rice.
...Which is why the next month it was implemented so damn quick nobody
knew what to make of it. That is, until April of that year, when the
Banff/K2 fiasco hit. Prior to siloing, the record for the most number
of X-rev BIOS releases required before the first A-rev, or official
release was 13. Between January and April, the Banff/K2 series of
systems reached 29, and by the time they shipped in July, the number
had skyrocketed to *79*. And when the A-revs hit the production floor,
there were a total of 31 stop-ships as systems and BIOSes had to be
retested and fixed as the production floor kept finding new
incompatibility bugs between the OS, the drivers, and the hardware.
Prior to this, the record was 4.
...By the middle of 2000, it had become apparent that the silo
methodology had caused far more problems than it solved. What had
happened was simply this: by having engineers and technicians knowing
exactly what every component in all systems under one LOB did,
behaved, misbehaved, performed, farted, melted and otherwise was
supposed to do under normal and abnormal circumstances with every
other component in the system, it was easy to forsee pretty much any
possible conflicts between new components being introduced into the
mix with existing components and/or other new components being
introduced at the same time.
...What siloing did was, in essence, set up blinders on the techs and
engineers, so that all they cared about was how a sound card or a hard
drive behaved with regards to the basic system itself: read, the CPU,
RAM, Mobo, Case and Power Supply. According to the flawed logic being
used, instead of having to know everything about everything in, say,
the Optiplex LOB, now all a tech would have to know is how a sound
card worked with the base system for each of the LOBs that the sound
card would be installed in. He wouldn't have to know how it worked
with a video card or a SCSI controller, just how it worked witih the
basic hardware.
...So, it really came as no surprise to anyone when pre-release
reliability started going straight to Hell in a handbasket. Shipping
dates started slipping almost from the beginning, and system
reliability began to suffer. So did company morale, especially after a
memo was circulated that any negative discussion regarding the siloing
would result in "stern penalties". It's known that two mid-level
managers were fired for having attempted to present statistics to
Michael in late '00 showing that siloing had caused more harm than
good, and once word of that got spread around everyone clammed up in
an act of self-preservation. Not that it did any good, as the St.
Valentine's Day massacre demonstrated to a lot of people the following
year.
...From what I've been able to gather from my friends still working at
Dell, there's been some minor acceptance by mid and upper-level
management that the silo methodology failed. The two dipshits
responsible for it no longer work there, but the real puzzler is that,
for the most part, siloing is still in place. They simply expanded the
silos so that techs and engineers are expected to know how their
components work with the components most expected to cause conflicts
witih each other, and know how those behave across all LOBs. It's
increased their workload threefold, and while reliability is better
it's nowhere near what it was before 1999. From what I've been told,
the average number of X-revs before the first shipping A00 rev is now
between 29 and 32, depending on which LOB we're talking about.
...Still, I miss working there from time to time. That period from
1996 to the middle of 2000 was, without question, one of the best
times of my life. The company could be great once again if it went
back to the way things were run prior to letting the IBeeMers fuck
everything over, but I honestly don't see that happening. Some cancers
are incurable, alas.
(*) The difference between a Latitude and an Inspiron is a marketing
scam wrapped in plastic and warranty conditions. If you're never going
out of the country with your notebook, you don't need the extra $300
price tag a Latitude carries over an Inspiron, as the sole difference
is the plastic surrounding the components.
(**) Dell does not sell "laptops", as the CPUs generate enough heat to
actually scald your right leg where the unit rests on the lap. Calling
a notebook a laptop in front of a high-level manager who was a jerkwad
would get you a reprimand. Calling it a laptop in front of a customer
would get you fired.
Scott Hedrick
"OM" <om@all_spammers_WILL_burn_in_hell.com> wrote in message
news:1j17f2dekmq3oci2h...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:59:28 -0400, "Scott Hedrick"
> <dinehnm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Since you don't respond to email, thought I'd ask this here:
>
> ...Who? Me?
Yeah, you, you lecherous wanker!
>>Got a Dell Dimension 2400 with a Celeron, what problems would I have
>>replacing it with a Pentium 4? Same socket.
>
> ...We're talking the desktop, right? IIRC, that's based off a
> Zuul-descendant board, probably the Zuul III, but I'm not sure as that
> came about after I left, but was on the drawing board at the time.
> Should be a simple pop-n-drop, with a speed limit of 2.54GHz on the
> proc. Might need a BIOS flash upgrade, but it should work with no
> probs.
Yeah, it's a desktop, and I believe the P4s over 2.6 go with a different
socket.
Seems to be the only thing I can do at this point to speed it up without
overclocking, which I'm not going to do.
Next thing I'll do is find a PCI hard drive controller so I can add another
couple of drives. I've got some spares I want to use and 380GB isn't enough.
Scott Hedrick
"OM" <om@all_spammers_WILL_burn_in_hell.com> wrote in message
> Still, I'd trust a Dell C-series notebook over someone else's
> chrome-plated lightweight junk
Hey, once we get the king-sized bed, I'll be able to do a 3-way with me, the
wife and the Dell Inspiron B130 :P
(Pat, your cue...)
> (**) Dell does not sell "laptops", as the CPUs generate enough heat to
> actually scald your right leg where the unit rests on the lap.
Hence the "Hey, peckerhead, I'd not kidding!" when I told my dad to
surrender his briefcase so I could work while on the road. Even though he
was driving and not using it, he didn't want me to touch it and the $30K
inside. I informed him if he wanted to get the work done in the 2 days on
the road, I need to run the laptop and that wasn't happening in contact with
my lap. Showing him the article of a guy who received blisters on his dick
(I mean his penis, not Bbo Hallre) from using a laptop helped.
'Course, he then wondered why I had the article saved to the desktop...then
he realized why :) and gave me the briefcase.
Next time, gimme more'n a *day* notice about the auction, Dad!
Chuck Stewart
> ... and 380GB isn't enough.
This is all Rusty's fault... :)
--
Chuck Stewart
"Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?"
OM
<dinehnm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Seems to be the only thing I can do at this point to speed it up without
>overclocking, which I'm not going to do.
...Dell mobos aren't overclock-capable. That has to do with the fact
that most Intel procs are cycle-locked, and can't be OC'd w/o some
modification to the chip itself. Some of the older P5 jobs you could
do that to, but once they got into the Socket 370 and above, it wasn't
feasible unless you had access to some serious microwire equipment and
knew just how to cut into the ceramics.
>Next thing I'll do is find a PCI hard drive controller so I can add another
>couple of drives. I've got some spares I want to use and 380GB isn't enough.
...There's quite a few of them out there. Make sure you get the ones
that are PCI133 compliant that were manufactured after 2003. That'll
make sure they can recognize drives larger than 200GB. Otherwise,
they'll try to format the damn things at 128GB. It's the days of MFM
vs RLL vs IDE all over again!
Jeff Findley
What, that you think it's o.k. to use sci.space.history as your own personal
Instant Messaging service? I'd ask OM to email you his phone number and
call him about things like this. It's not like long distance costs much
these days.
Jeff Findley
"Chuck Stewart" <zapk...@orcon.net.nz> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.08.29....@orcon.net.nz...
You sure it isn't the catgirl anime on his HD?
Herb Schaltegger
(in article <824b7$44f45064$927a2cf9$25...@FUSE.NET>):
> What, that you think it's o.k. to use sci.space.history as your own personal
> Instant Messaging service?
Jeez, with all the other crap floating around Usenet these days, so
what? There's a lot more on the 'net to get your panties in a wad
about.
--
"Fame may be fleeting but obscurity is forever." ~Anonymous
"I believe as little as possible and know as much as I can."
~Todd Stuart Phillips
<www.angryherb.net>
Eric Chomko
Scott Hedrick
>
>> ... and 380GB isn't enough.
>
> This is all Rusty's fault... :)
As if that deserved a smiley face- I'm already in trouble with the wife
because I read Rusty and we only have a dial-up...I definitely screw up the
user time online averages for Bellsouth :P
Scott Hedrick
> You sure it isn't the catgirl anime on his HD?
Just a dancing Scooby Doo.
Scott Hedrick
"OM" <om@all_spammers_WILL_burn_in_hell.com> wrote in message
> Some of the older P5 jobs you could
> do that to, but once they got into the Socket 370 and above, it wasn't
> feasible unless you had access to some serious microwire equipment and
> knew just how to cut into the ceramics.
Well, I *have* watched Silent Running a dozen times- finally just scanned it
onto my drive. Between the videos and Rusty, I'm out of room, and the videos
go first :)
>
>>Next thing I'll do is find a PCI hard drive controller so I can add
>>another
>>couple of drives. I've got some spares I want to use and 380GB isn't
>>enough.
>
> ...There's quite a few of them out there. Make sure you get the ones
> that are PCI133 compliant that were manufactured after 2003. That'll
> make sure they can recognize drives larger than 200GB. Otherwise,
> they'll try to format the damn things at 128GB. It's the days of MFM
> vs RLL vs IDE all over again!
I was sorely tempted to attempt to get this old MFM drive to work with my
Dell, but it couldn't hold the files for my last book alone, and it would
die of faint if I tried to expose it to Rusty.
We don't need to pay no steenking $35 for a floppy drive- I got six in a
box. Then I got Dell's joke- no bracket to hold it. Well, I'm no OM, but
I've been working with computers for 28 years, so with a couple of serial
port covers, I got me a floppy drive. I attached some 5.25" bay adapter
brackets to the existing HD, did the same to another drive, then mounted the
2nd drive upside down, because screw holes between the brackets line up. Had
to twist the data cable, but it's solidly attached. Not sure where I could
put more drives :)
Got another computer with a BigFoot drive, then I found another BigFoot in a
dumpster that was a bit thinner. There was just enough space between the top
bay on my old eMachine and the top of the case to slip the skinny BigFoot.
It's not secure, but then, it's not like I move the case around a lot. Makes
for a nice workstation.
Scott Hedrick
> What, that you think it's o.k. to use sci.space.history as your own
> personal Instant Messaging service?
Yes, when the need arises. I consider it an essential liberty that I choose
not to give up.
Scott Hedrick
"Herb Schaltegger" <herb.sch...@NOSPAMgmail.com.INVALID> wrote in
message news:0001HW.C119BDF2...@enews.newsguy.com...
> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:34:10 -0500, Jeff Findley wrote
> (in article <824b7$44f45064$927a2cf9$25...@FUSE.NET>):
>
>> What, that you think it's o.k. to use sci.space.history as your own
>> personal
>> Instant Messaging service?
>
> Jeez, with all the other crap floating around Usenet these days, so
> what? There's a lot more on the 'net to get your panties in a wad
> about.
He's not entirely out of line, but add him to Derek and some others,
including on occasion you and me lately, and I'd say the whole group needs
to just relax. A bunch of us have gotten cranky as of late.
Good thing Henry and Mary are here to spank us. Mary, I've been very bad
lately...
OM
<jeff.f...@ugs.nojunk.com> wrote:
>What, that you think it's o.k. to use sci.space.history as your own personal
>Instant Messaging service? I'd ask OM to email you his phone number and
>call him about things like this. It's not like long distance costs much
>these days.
...Oh, fuck off, Jeff. Rest assured if Scott had fucked up, he'd have
had his head handed back to him in a dog food bowl.
Eric Chomko
OM wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:34:10 -0400, "Jeff Findley"
> <jeff.f...@ugs.nojunk.com> wrote:
>
> >What, that you think it's o.k. to use sci.space.history as your own personal
> >Instant Messaging service? I'd ask OM to email you his phone number and
> >call him about things like this. It's not like long distance costs much
> >these days.
>
> ...Oh, fuck off, Jeff. Rest assured if Scott had fucked up, he'd have
> had his head handed back to him in a dog food bowl.
At the rate OM is going it won't be long until he killfiles himself,
which really would be a benefit to us all.
Eric