What's wrong with this picture?
Pat Flannery
little problems inherent in it:
http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/spacema.gif
Starting with choosing CO2 as your breathing gas, and the fact that the
Sun shines on the Moon from a different direction than it does on Earth.
:-D
Pat
Stou Sandalski
How do you figure they are using CO2? Also peep that rock next to the
landed rocket and between the astronauts feet, the shadow seems to be
on the same side as that on the earth. Maybe the illumination of the
astronaut is due to the highly reflective moon soil = )
All i see is that the rocket is a bit too small for the astronaut, the
grounded dude has a knife (maybe so he can cut himself out, if he got
stuck in some kelp)... and besides man can never break the ties of
earth as gravity theoretically spans out for ever and ever... and ever.
stou
Tim K.
"Pat Flannery" <fla...@daktel.com> wrote in message
news:10j0j3d...@corp.supernews.com...
I like the knife.
This author has a skill set honed on chasin' the Commanche, and he's trying
to hard to adapt to drawing the new frontier.
Christopher M. Jones
Well, let's see...
First, there don't appear to be any valves or regulators
on the astronaut's air supply. I guess maybe he runs his
suit at 1600 psi or somesuch. It's also odd that the hose
simply goes from the tank to the suit without there being
any special fittings on the suit, I don't think that would
work too well.
Second, the biggest error is that the suit obviously has
no positive pressure from within, it conforms to the
astronaut's body. Which either meins the Moon has a
substantial atmosphere or the artist didn't know what
inflated suits look like.
Third, the rocket is parked WAY too close to those big
rocks for safety.
Fourth, the design of that rocket would require a
tall ladder to reach the cabin. I presume it's on the
other side. I also presume that they tried to save
weight on the vehicle by not installing any windows on
this side.
Fifth, the spacecraft/rocket appears to have no RCS,
nor a high gain antenna. The "spire" on top of the
rocket may be an omni-directional, low gain antenna,
but it's hard to say for certain.
Sixth, the Earth does not have a proper phase. It
appears very slightly brighter on one side than the
other, but the night-time side is still lit.
Seventh, you can clearly make out a great many stars
in the sky, when in reality they would be too dim to
see if your eyes (or film) were adjusted to view the
very bright lunar landscape.
I'll take the space walker also in the picture as
artistic license.
Neil Gerace
"Stou Sandalski" <stou.sa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cgplof$3...@odah37.prod.google.com...
> How do you figure they are using CO2?
CO2 fire extinguishers are red with a black band IIRC.
Fox2
Not bad for pre-space flight cover art. (c.1952)
At least they are wearing space suits & there
are no drooling monsters peeking around any rocks.
I particularly liked the covers with the babes in bikinis,
floating around with the fish bowls on their heads. :p
Fox2
Pat Flannery
Neil Gerace wrote:
I checked the gas color code- CO2 is gray; CO2 for fires is overall red:
http://www.tpub.com/content/construction/14250/css/14250_99.htm
Pat
Pat Flannery
Fox2 wrote:
>I particularly liked the covers with the babes in bikinis,
>floating around with the fish bowls on their heads.
>
That was a whole genre unto itself, wasn't it?
Pat
Pat Flannery
Christopher M. Jones wrote:
>
> I'll take the space walker also in the picture as
> artistic license.
I'll take it that he is falling to his doom.
Missed that little crater full of red stuff that looks like lava to the
left of the rocket (is he in the crater Alphonsus by any chance?), and
the fact that the astronaut is carrying an oxygen mask in his hand he
has no way to put on without raising his visor? :-)
Pat
Pat Flannery
Stou Sandalski wrote:
>How do you figure they are using CO2?
>
Gas pressure tanks have a uniform set of color codes to show what gas
they contain; red is carbon dioxide, green is oxygen.
but that's only the start of this poor guy's problems- his CO2 tank
doesn't have a pressure regulator on it, or even a valve for that
matter....he is going to inflate his suit like a balloon.
> Also peep that rock next to the
>landed rocket and between the astronauts feet, the shadow seems to be
>on the same side as that on the earth. Maybe the illumination of the
>astronaut is due to the highly reflective moon soil = )
>
The illumination varies in different parts of the picture; on the
astronaut it seems to be coming almost straight down, which, looking at
the Earth, would mean the sun is shining down on the Moon from somewhere
near the North Star; you could maybe make this work with a
Earth-centered cosmos, though. Also note the small crater that appears
to be full of molten lava to the left of where the ship has landed,
suggesting that this might not a safe area of the moon.
>
>All i see is that the rocket is a bit too small for the astronaut, the
>grounded dude has a knife (maybe so he can cut himself out, if he got
>stuck in some kelp)... and besides man can never break the ties of
>earth as gravity theoretically spans out for ever and ever... and ever.
>
Though apparently not to that ship over his head, which is either: A.)
In a _very_ low lunar orbit. B.) Falling to destruction on the Lunar
surface while the EVA'ing astronaut gives a thumb's-up gesture. Of
course it might be able to start its motors, but then the astronaut on
EVA had better have jam in his pockets, as he is about to become toast.
:-D
Pat
Dave Kenworthy
>
>
> Stou Sandalski wrote:
>
> >How do you figure they are using CO2?
> >
> Gas pressure tanks have a uniform set of color codes to show what gas
> they contain; red is carbon dioxide, green is oxygen.
...which reminds me of when I worked for (UK mobile phone network provider)
BT Cellnet, who rebranded themselves as 'O2'.
The zealous rebranding exercise extended to corporate signage, stationery,
etc. In the building I was based in, it even included attaching 'O2'
stickers to black fire extinguishers that had previously been marked 'CO2'.
Neat.
--
Dave Kenworthy
-----------------------------
Changes aren't permanent - but change is!
Fox2
Yep! But they sold lot's of magazines.
As for fictional space suits, let's see now...
SiFi space suits started out as pressurized diving suits.
-Then became armored like a 12th century knight with jet packs.
-Then back to pressurized diving suits.
-Then to skin tight, transparent plastics that held sea level
pressures, but maintained full flexibility.
-Then back to pressurized diving suits.
Current space suits have never made it past the
pressurized diving suit stage. :)
Fox2
Pat Flannery
Dave Kenworthy wrote:
>The zealous rebranding exercise extended to corporate signage, stationery,
>etc. In the building I was based in, it even included attaching 'O2'
>stickers to black fire extinguishers that had previously been marked 'CO2'.
>
This could have been an interesting idea if they changed the gas to O2
also...shooting either CO2 or O2 at the fire might well shorten its
overall duration... albeit in two entirely different ways.... :-D
Pat
Pat Flannery
Fox2 wrote:
>SiFi space suits started out as pressurized diving suits.
>-Then became armored like a 12th century knight with jet packs.
>-Then back to pressurized diving suits.
>-Then to skin tight, transparent plastics that held sea level
>pressures, but maintained full flexibility.
>
Not the transparent heart-shaped window incorporated into the women's
spacesuits in the movie "Green Slime" so that their cleavage is
visible.... this must lead to some interesting tanning patterns during
long EVA's in bright sunlight. :-)
Pat
John Savard
wrote, in part:
>Starting with choosing CO2 as your breathing gas,
Hey, *we* don't know that it's really a fire extinguisher that he is
wearing.
>and the fact that the
>Sun shines on the Moon from a different direction than it does on Earth.
That's not true. The sun is shining from the right on both the Earth in
the background, and the lunar mountains to the left. It's only shining
on the *astronaut* from the opposite direction.
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
Pat Flannery
John Savard wrote:
>That's not true. The sun is shining from the right on both the Earth in
>the background, and the lunar mountains to the left. It's only shining
>on the *astronaut* from the opposite direction.
>
>
>
Look at the two spaceships also; in fact, given the way it's hitting the
Earth, the whole scene should maybe be in darkness.
Pat
Greg D. Moore (Strider)
"Pat Flannery" <fla...@daktel.com> wrote in message
news:10j256h...@corp.supernews.com...
To be fair:
ftp://ftp.seds.org/pub/images/apollo/old/apollo-11/apollo-11-patch.jpg
got it wrong too.
>
> Pat
>
Andrew Gray
>
> SiFi space suits started out as pressurized diving suits.
> -Then became armored like a 12th century knight with jet packs.
> -Then back to pressurized diving suits.
> -Then to skin tight, transparent plastics that held sea level
> pressures, but maintained full flexibility.
> -Then back to pressurized diving suits.
>
> Current space suits have never made it past the
> pressurized diving suit stage. :)
There was a sf story where - this is probably a spoiler, but since I
can't remember what the hell it was... - a gimmick involved the society
being post-technical, having devolved back to about Rennaisance levels,
but with occasional old artifacts around; it became apparent at one
point that a building was, in fact, an abandoned spaceship, for example.
There was a reference, at one point, to an ancient picture, showing a
knight in armour on a desolate rocky plain, with a strangely coloured
full moon over his shoulder...
--
-Andrew Gray
andre...@dunelm.org.uk
John Savard
wrote, in part:
>Look at the two spaceships also; in fact, given the way it's hitting the
>Earth, the whole scene should maybe be in darkness.
That's it, then! It *is* night on that part of the Moon, so the
illumination on the Moon is coming from lights on another spaceship
behind the viewer of the painting.
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
Pat Flannery
John Savard wrote:
>That's it, then! It *is* night on that part of the Moon, so the
>illumination on the Moon is coming from lights on another spaceship
>behind the viewer of the painting.
>
>John Savard
>http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
>
If it were reddish-yellow light, I would suspect it was another one of
those lava-filled craters like the one to the left of the ship in full
eruption.
Pat
LooseChanj
> On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 18:27:12 -0500, Pat Flannery <fla...@daktel.com>
> wrote, in part:
>
>>Look at the two spaceships also; in fact, given the way it's hitting the
>>Earth, the whole scene should maybe be in darkness.
>
> That's it, then! It *is* night on that part of the Moon, so the
> illumination on the Moon is coming from lights on another spaceship
> behind the viewer of the painting.
Or maybe it's just a drawing. :-P
--
This is a siggy | To E-mail, do note | Just because something
It's properly formatted | who you mean to reply-to | is possible, doesn't
No person, none, care | and it will reach me | mean it can happen
David M. Palmer
<andre...@dunelm.org.uk> wrote:
Gene Wolfe's Book Of The New Sun (four volumes starting with
_The_Shadow_of_the_Torturer_).
That's not really a spoiler.
--
David M. Palmer dmpa...@email.com (formerly @clark.net, @ematic.com)
John Savard
in part:
>Or maybe it's just a drawing. :-P
It *is* just a painting.
But the question is - are there mistakes in it?
A mistake in a painting is a failure to correspond with what may exist
in the real world. (Well, in the case of a representational painting,
anyways; Jackson Pollack, Piet Mondrian, or even Pablo Picasso
excepted... for that matter, even M. C. Escher...)
Thus, if objects are illuminated from different directions, one must
ask: are multiple light sources plausible?
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
Hop David
The terminator should be half of an ellipse whose semi-major axis is the
same as the planet disk's radius. The minor axis of the ellipse should
point towards the light source.
http://clowder.net/hop/Terminator.jpg
I remember in grade school drawing planet earths with the American
continents and maybe even some city lights as shown in the comic book
cover. Then I was amazed by photos showing all the clouds. Now it seems
obvious that much of earth's surface would be hidden by clouds.
Are there any pre earth photo illustrations that accurately portray the
earth with clouds?
--
Hop David
http://clowder.net/hop/index.html
Pat Flannery
John Savard wrote:
>
>Thus, if objects are illuminated from different directions, one must
>ask: are multiple light sources plausible?
>
Leaving the lighting aside (though the ghost of Chesley Bonestell would
be appalled), what exactly is the other ship with the EVA'ing astronaut
doing hanging in the sky a few dozen feet up? I could see how it could
be artistic license meant to portray two different events in one
painting...but the two astronauts seem to be acknowledging each other's
proximity, which implies that it really is supposed to be that close to
the person on the surface; if it's in orbit, then this scene must be
occurring at the highest point on the lunar surface, and the crew of the
orbiting spacecraft be very confident in their understanding of lunar
topography and elevations....one has to admit that having something go
flying a few dozen feet overhead at lunar orbital velocity would be
impressive to see, provided one knew where to look so as not to miss it.
One would also hope that the EVA'ng astronaut's umbilical was kept to a
length that would allow him not to have to worry about hitting a
mountain peak if he went as far down as he could get with it.
Of course, the one thing you notice right off the bat when you look at
the picture is that knife the astronaut on the surface is equipped
with...it looks oddly incongruous in this setting, sort of like the way
a mouse would look sitting on George Washington's head in a presidential
portrait....there is no reason a mouse _couldn't_ sit on George
Washington's head; it's just that you wouldn't expect to see it in a
painting of him (unless the painting was by Grant Wood...I'm still
snickering about this little gem of surrealism:
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~MA98/haven/wood/images/weems.jpg).
Then there is the deep mystery of why the astronaut is carrying the
oxygen mask around on the Moon's surface, knowing full well there is no
way he can put it on anyone he meets without making them raise the visor
of their spacesuit and killing them in the process of trying to give
them oxygen to save them from some crisis...probably a danger of
suffocation from their failure to learn how to breathe CO2, the way he has.
What makes the painting so interesting to me is that there is nothing
_obvious_ in what's not right with it- it's like one of those cartoons
in Junior Scholastic magazine that challenges you to find twelve things
wrong in the picture...you start with the knife, and work out from there
in an exercise in lunar logic.
Lileks.com did an investigation into the strange Art Frahm pin-up
painting celery/falling panties fetish in somewhat the same regard:
http://www.lileks.com/institute/frahm/index.html
Pat
Pat Flannery
Hop David wrote:
>
>
> Are there any pre earth photo illustrations that accurately portray
> the earth with clouds?
Yes, in fact someone here pointed out this painting by Chesley Bonestell
as being very accurate in how the earth really looks from space:
http://www.dreamstone.com.au/artists/chesley_bonestell_images/Spacetug.jpg
On the other hand, this ship seems to be _way_ overpowered for something
designed to land in 1/6th G: http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk/l3.jpg
I really love the way he's portrayed the nitric acid/hydrazine engine
exhaust though.
Pat
Hop David
Pat Flannery wrote:
>
>
> Hop David wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Are there any pre earth photo illustrations that accurately portray
>> the earth with clouds?
>
>
>
> Yes, in fact someone here pointed out this painting by Chesley Bonestell
> as being very accurate in how the earth really looks from space:
> http://www.dreamstone.com.au/artists/chesley_bonestell_images/Spacetug.jpg
This was made in 1956!? This puts Bonestell higher up in my Pantheon.
He's right up there with M.C. Escher, Theodor Geisel, Rene Magritte,
Rick Griffin and Roger Dean.
> On the other hand, this ship seems to be _way_ overpowered for something
> designed to land in 1/6th G: http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk/l3.jpg
> I really love the way he's portrayed the nitric acid/hydrazine engine
> exhaust though.
Arrgh! The terminator ellipse on earth is too small! If he had rendered
the earth in the same fashion as the sphere atop the landing craft it
would be a much more pleasing image (at least to me).
I suppose Bonestell thought ambient light bounced around in the
atmosphere would send light past the terminator boundary into the night
side.
>
> Pat
Henry Spencer
Pat Flannery <fla...@daktel.com> wrote:
>On the other hand, this ship seems to be _way_ overpowered for something
>designed to land in 1/6th G: http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk/l3.jpg
Bear in mind, that's a *big* vehicle and those are undoubtedly quite
low-pressure engines.
--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert | he...@spsystems.net
Andrey Tarasevich
> Other than the immediate response of "Lots!", try to list _all_ the
> little problems inherent in it:
> http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/spacema.gif
> Starting with choosing CO2 as your breathing gas, and the fact that the
> Sun shines on the Moon from a different direction than it does on Earth.
> :-D
There's definitely something wrong with Earth. Everyone knows that when
you look at Earth from space you always see Eurasia in the center. On
this picture it is centered on North America for some reason. Is it
actually possible? Must be some kind of pro-American propaganda... :)
--
Best regards,
Andrey Tarasevich
Pat Flannery
Hop David wrote:
>
> Arrgh! The terminator ellipse on earth is too small! If he had
> rendered the earth in the same fashion as the sphere atop the landing
> craft it would be a much more pleasing image (at least to me).
It does look odd, and that's odd in itself, as he prided himself on
getting stuff like that correct.
>
>
> I suppose Bonestell thought ambient light bounced around in the
> atmosphere would send light past the terminator boundary into the
> night side.
That's probably it; there is a ring of "twilight" around the periphery
of the sunlit side.
A lot of people think that _this_ is his best painting (me included):
http://www.muenster.de/~kunar/bildoj/titano.jpg
(the sky on the original is bluer than shown here) the composition of
this painting is well-nigh perfect.
Pat
Pat Flannery
Henry Spencer wrote:
>In article <10j69mq...@corp.supernews.com>,
>Pat Flannery <fla...@daktel.com> wrote:
>
>
>>On the other hand, this ship seems to be _way_ overpowered for something
>>designed to land in 1/6th G: http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk/l3.jpg
>>
>>
>
>Bear in mind, that's a *big* vehicle and those are undoubtedly quite
>low-pressure engines.
>
Yeah, but even given that, the thing looks like it could land and
liftoff from Earth rather than just the Moon!
Assuming those are the von Braun standard ferry rocket motors on its
back end, it's generating :
55,000 lbs. thrust x 30 motors = 1,650,000 lbs. thrust.(
http://vesuvius.jsc.nasa.gov/er/seh/lunarlan.html ) (Miller gives the
thrust as 940,000 lbs in "The Dream Machines".)
Considering that according to this:
http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk/cb.html the ship's weight is supposed to
be a total of
8,740,000 lbs on leaving the space station for the moon, then the motor
thrust makes sense, but it has jettisoned its TLI propellant tanks by
the time it arrives at the Moon, and is getting steadily lighter as it
descends due to propellant usage:
http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk/l1.jpg. shows that a good third or more
of its mass would have been in the jettisoned tanks and their contents,
plus whatever was used during the braking maneuver as it approached the
Moon's surface http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk/l2.jpg
...and it still looks way overpowered at this point, even given the fact
that the LM had amore efficient hypergolic motor on it.
Pat
Alan Anderson
Hop David <hopspageHA...@tabletoptelephone.com> wrote:
> Arrgh! The terminator ellipse on earth is too small! If he had rendered
> the earth in the same fashion as the sphere atop the landing craft it
> would be a much more pleasing image (at least to me).
It's just overexposed...
Hop David
Pat Flannery wrote:
> A lot of people think that _this_ is his best painting (me included):
> http://www.muenster.de/~kunar/bildoj/titano.jpg
> (the sky on the original is bluer than shown here) the composition of
> this painting is well-nigh perfect.
That's a beaut alright.
I can hardly wait until Huygens lands!
Jim Davis
> On the other hand, this ship seems to be _way_
> overpowered for something designed to land in 1/6th G:
> http://www.skiesare.demon.co.uk/l3.jpg I really love the way
> he's portrayed the nitric acid/hydrazine engine exhaust though.
Numbers to go with picture:
Initial weight for landing manuever : 1220 tons
Final weight at touchdown : 350 tons
Total thrust : 407 tons
Chamber pressure : 214 psi
Specific impulse : 285 sec
Comparing these to the Apollo LM:
Initial weight : 32300 lbs
Total thrust of DPS : 9850 lbs
would lead one to conclude that the Collier's group seems to have the
thrust to weight ratio about right.
Jim Davis
Pat Flannery
Hop David wrote:
>
> That's a beaut alright.
>
> I can hardly wait until Huygens lands!
I keep picturing this cloudy sky with this ringed planet visible through
the breaks in the clouds....then, through the methane haze, you see this
big "something" in the distance:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/denshaft/historiq/juillet/derelict.jpg
It appears to be a derelict alien ship of some sort...shaped like a vast
horseshoe... :-)
Pat
Pat Flannery
Jim Davis wrote:
>
>Initial weight for landing manuever : 1220 tons
>Final weight at touchdown : 350 tons
>Total thrust : 407 tons
>Chamber pressure : 214 psi
>Specific impulse : 285 sec
>
>Comparing these to the Apollo LM:
>
>Initial weight : 32300 lbs
>Total thrust of DPS : 9850 lbs
>
>would lead one to conclude that the Collier's group seems to have the
>thrust to weight ratio about right.
>
That really makes one appreciate how a higher ISP motor can really
change the whole equation when it comes to the design of a Lunar lander
ship (The Apollo LM had an ISP of 311 in both the descent and ascent
stages); thanks for the analyses!
On the other hand, von Braun's design had a bit more spacious crew
quarters than the LM offered:
http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/mooncon2.gif
(the command sphere of one of the Moonships)
Pat
Gene DiGennaro
> Other than the immediate response of "Lots!", try to list _all_ the
> little problems inherent in it:
> http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/spacema.gif
> Starting with choosing CO2 as your breathing gas, and the fact that the
> Sun shines on the Moon from a different direction than it does on Earth.
> :-D
>
In the lab where I work, red gas bottles are for hydrogen. That having
been said the biggest issue is that the guy seems to be holding an
oxygen mask! The influence of USAF/USN high altitude flight gear is
readily apparent. Of course that same gear was used as the basis for
Mercury and Gemini suits. Mercury suits were beased on the BF Goodrich
Mk IV USN pressure suit and the Gemini suit was based on the USAF
AP22/S high altitude suit. It was during Gemini EVA was it learned
that flight suit derived spacesuits were unacceptable for use out side
of the vehicle. I will agree though that those early pressure suit
designs were really cool looking. I'd love to have a David Clark MC-3
suit with matching K-2 helmet, but I don't have the bucks and I'm too
fat to wear it!
Gene DiGennaro
Baltimore, Md.
Eric Chomko
: John Savard wrote:
Also, the terminator has North America in pre-dawn darkness whereas South
America is in morning sunlight has the earth skewed off its axis a lot.
Thanks for Apollo 8 to show us that clouds actually do appear in visible
light.
Eric
: Pat
Eric Chomko
: http://clowder.net/hop/Terminator.jpg
I have a similar recollection from my youth. One TV network (RKO, I think)
used a spinning earth as part of their motion logo.
I don't recall anything until Apollo 8. The real thing!
Eric
: --
: Hop David
: http://clowder.net/hop/index.html
Eric Chomko
Propaganda. Speaking of which. This is off-topic, but I can't help
thinking about it after having done a little weekend getaway.
The local beach here in Maryland (Ocean City) has been overrun with
workers from eastern Europe. This trend has started about 6-8 years ago.
Ironically they are there but nothing in the local literature mentions
them. It is as if these people have been snuck in and we visitors aren't
suppose to notice. They are simply "the help".
At this point they are part of OC history. Some will marry and stay,
eventually become homeowners, etc. I can't help think that in 20-30 years
that they will have taken over and as a payback to having never been
mentioned from the mid 90s, they will rewrite the history of OC to the
point where only THEY exist. Think "Afrocentrism" here with a eastern
European twist.
Anyway... back to space art and away from "propaganda".
Eric
: --
: Best regards,
: Andrey Tarasevich
Mike Combs
>
> I keep picturing this cloudy sky with this ringed planet visible through
> the breaks in the clouds....then, through the methane haze, you see this
> big "something" in the distance:
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/denshaft/historiq/juillet/derelict.jpg
> It appears to be a derelict alien ship of some sort...shaped like a vast
> horseshoe... :-)
As it happens, one of the Alien-wanabe movies (Creature) was in fact set on
Titan.
--
Regards,
Mike Combs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Member of the National Non-sequitur Society. We may not make
much sense, but we do like pizza.
Henry Spencer
Eric Chomko <echom...@polaris.umuc.edu> wrote:
>Also, the terminator has North America in pre-dawn darkness whereas South
>America is in morning sunlight has the earth skewed off its axis a lot.
Nope. Look at a map: almost all of North America is west of the 75W
meridian, while almost all of South America is east of it. Guayaquil,
pretty much at the westernmost tip of South America, is almost due south
of Miami. And if it's northern winter, so the Northern Hemisphere is
tipped away from the Sun, I think the artist's position of the terminator
is halfway plausible.
Pat Flannery
Gene DiGennaro wrote:
>
>In the lab where I work, red gas bottles are for hydrogen.
>
Hydrogen is supposed to be yellow with a black band:
http://www.c-f-c.com/gaslink/milspec/mil101.htm
> That having
>been said the biggest issue is that the guy seems to be holding an
>oxygen mask!
>
Yeah, what the hell _is_ that all about? And you note that is has a
standard accordion-style feed hose on it, as opposed to his skinny tube
feed from his back-mounted CO2 fire extinguisher.
Pat
Alan Anderson
> Also, the terminator has North America in pre-dawn darkness whereas South
> America is in morning sunlight has the earth skewed off its axis a lot.
No, that's how the Earth is. Take a look at a globe. The painting's
terminator line is perfectly reasonable (in isolation). Earth's axial
tilt can make the situation even more pronounced in Southern Hemisphere
summer.
[The typical advice for someone in a deep hole is to stop digging. In
your case, you're deep enough that you might be better off continuing on
through to the other side...]
Jim Davis
> On the other hand, von Braun's design had a bit more spacious crew
> quarters than the LM offered:
> http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/mooncon2.gif
> (the command sphere of one of the Moonships)
It's worth mentioning that this painting is the work of Fred Freeman,
not Bonestell.
One point about this drawing has always intrigued me. It's hard to
tell on the gif above but in the full size drawing it's obvious that
the crewman on the upper deck on the far left is black although it
doesn't jump out at you. This was very rare for the 1950s and I've
always wondered whose idea this was. Did Freeman sneak it past
everyone else? Did the von Braun group sneak it past the Collier's
editors? Did the Collier's editors suggest it to Freeman? Was
Collier's editorial policy pro racial equality in the 1950s?
Does anyone know the story here?
Jim Davis
OM
>One point about this drawing has always intrigued me. It's hard to
>tell on the gif above but in the full size drawing it's obvious that
>the crewman on the upper deck on the far left is black although it
>doesn't jump out at you. This was very rare for the 1950s and I've
>always wondered whose idea this was. Did Freeman sneak it past
>everyone else? Did the von Braun group sneak it past the Collier's
>editors? Did the Collier's editors suggest it to Freeman? Was
>Collier's editorial policy pro racial equality in the 1950s?
...Yeah, but considering it's the 50's, he's either the cook, the
steward or the janitor. Either that, or the spacecraft is a charter
job actually O&O'd by the Sunshine Cab Company. If that's the case,
then somewhere down below, George "Kingfish" Stevens has somehow wound
up on board, and is trying to concoct another 'get rich *quick*'
scheme to make a buck out of his predicament :-P
OM
--
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb bastard die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society
- General George S. Patton, Jr
Christopher M. Jones
> No, that's how the Earth is. Take a look at a globe. The painting's
> terminator line is perfectly reasonable (in isolation). Earth's axial
> tilt can make the situation even more pronounced in Southern Hemisphere
> summer.
Well, the terminator isn't quite perfect. Based on the
picture you'd expect about 70% of the Earth to be in
full sunlight. Also, you'll note the absence of any
polar ice caps. From these two facts we can discern
that the picture depicts a time when the Sun has
entered its red giant phase and swelled so large that
it covers a large portion of Earth's sky. This also
explains why the Moon is shown as volcanically active.
Those two space men are probably the only two humans
left alive.
Fin Fahey
> Other than the immediate response of "Lots!", try to list _all_ the
> little problems inherent in it:
> http://sun3.lib.uci.edu/~jsisson/gifs/spacema.gif
> Starting with choosing CO2 as your breathing gas, and the fact that the
> Sun shines on the Moon from a different direction than it does on Earth.
> :-D
>
> Pat
>
More questions rather than nitpicks - I guess you've read the book, Pat:
1) Why do the city lights on Earth seem to be in Tennessee, New Mexico
and Ecuador? Is this after some sort of nookular holocaust?
2) What is the thin spire emerging from the mountains below the 'CONQUER
SPACE-' text? A sekrit Venoosian firewimmen base?
3) Why does the spacecraft on the ground have lots of fins and the other
one only two? Was it like the Thor stuff where the fins fell off and
they found they didn't really need them in the first place?
4) What is the purpose of the whole damn manoeuvre that's going on? Is
the top spacecraft about to power-up, or is it crashing? (Curiosity).
Either way, why the tether? It's surely not actually going to help that
guy whatever happens. (And I assume that the bloke in front is holding
the air force-issue oxygen mask in case the other geyser's helmet
smashes, which is highly probable.)
--
Fin
Pat Flannery
Jim Davis wrote:
>Pat Flannery wrote:
>
>One point about this drawing has always intrigued me. It's hard to
>tell on the gif above but in the full size drawing it's obvious that
>the crewman on the upper deck on the far left is black although it
>doesn't jump out at you. This was very rare for the 1950s and I've
>always wondered whose idea this was.
>
Sounds prescient about NASA though, doesn't it? Challenger had what I
always called the "Movie Bomber Crew" on its last flight- after all
those WW II films that had a crew of something... a B-17, a sub, a PT
boat, a combat squad, or a tank, which is made up of one representative
from each ethnic group in the Great Melting Pot acting in a very
stereotypical manner......but always with a WASP in charge.....and
always with the notable absence of African Americans, who don't seem to
even exist. (if you want to see this wonderfully overdone in space
sometime, watch the movie "Conquest Of Space"; which was strongly...and
wrongly, based on von Braun's Collier's work.)
> Did Freeman sneak it past
>everyone else? Did the von Braun group sneak it past the Collier's
>editors? Did the Collier's editors suggest it to Freeman? Was
>Collier's editorial policy pro racial equality in the 1950s?
>
You will note this about the black Moonship crewman:
1.) He seems to be cooking...or possibly washing dishes.
2.) He appears to be shackled to the wall.
3.) There are no white women on the ship.
4.) There is a noose in one of the ship's storage lockers....just in
case the Loony But Lovely Mare Maidens are encountered, and anything
"unfortunate" ensues.
Sorry....I finally got to see "The Hollywood Shuffle" for the first time
last night, and am still snickering about how on-target that movie is.
As for Collier's- according to Jeffrey Bell (collective sound of
muttering and hissing from newsgroups) Collier's wasn't exactly a
bastion of liberalism:
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/rocketscience-03zzf.html
Pat
Pat Flannery
OM wrote:
>Either that, or the spacecraft is a charter
>job actually O&O'd by the Sunshine Cab Company. If that's the case,
>then somewhere down below, George "Kingfish" Stevens has somehow wound
>up on board, and is trying to concoct another 'get rich *quick*'
>scheme to make a buck out of his predicament :-P
>
"Now we be talkin' about the differance between the "Looner" and the
"Looney"...as we are goin' to be landin' on the Moon's _Dark Side_,
where all these white flyboys goin' to be doin' the workin' for
us...rather than the other ways 'round."
Pat
Pat Flannery
Christopher M. Jones wrote:
> From these two facts we can discern
> that the picture depicts a time when the Sun has
> entered its red giant phase and swelled so large that
> it covers a large portion of Earth's sky. This also
> explains why the Moon is shown as volcanically active.
> Those two space men are probably the only two humans
> left alive.
This explains the CO2 tank- he's trying to keep cool.
And also what the other ship is up to...the heating of the Earth's
atmosphere by the swollen sun has driven it so far out that it has
caused the other ship to decay out of orbit around the Moon...the guy
has got the oxygen mask handy, because he's going to be able to breath
using just that in short order- when the giant steam cloud from all the
Earth's vaporizing oceans reaches the Moon and temporarily raises its
surface pressure level to where pressure suits aren't necessary!
Then _another_ giant comet is going to come flying out of Jupiter's
Great Red Spot, fly into the Sun, and cool it down again... just like
Venus did after Atlantis sank! =-O
Immanuel Flannakovsky
Chairman, Carl Sagan Revenge Squad
Eric Chomko
: In article <ch279h$242t$3...@news.ums.edu>,
: Eric Chomko <echom...@polaris.umuc.edu> wrote:
: >Also, the terminator has North America in pre-dawn darkness whereas South
: >America is in morning sunlight has the earth skewed off its axis a lot.
: Nope. Look at a map: almost all of North America is west of the 75W
: meridian, while almost all of South America is east of it. Guayaquil,
: pretty much at the westernmost tip of South America, is almost due south
: of Miami. And if it's northern winter, so the Northern Hemisphere is
: tipped away from the Sun, I think the artist's position of the terminator
: is halfway plausible.
I checked "Exploration of the Universe, 6th Edition", by Abell and others
amd sure enough on page 81 shows the earth of Dec 22 and indeed it does
look similar to the artist's comic book cover. Not to pic but the north
pole area does seem a tad light on the comic cover.
My assumption was that the time zones (See:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ ) of Washington DC and Caracas, Ven
are the same, therefore the terminator would be more in line in that
manner. Bad assumption due to seasonal changes.
Eric
: --
Eric Chomko
: echom...@polaris.umuc.edu (Eric Chomko) wrote:
: > Also, the terminator has North America in pre-dawn darkness whereas South
: > America is in morning sunlight has the earth skewed off its axis a lot.
: No, that's how the Earth is. Take a look at a globe. The painting's
: terminator line is perfectly reasonable (in isolation). Earth's axial
: tilt can make the situation even more pronounced in Southern Hemisphere
: summer.
Yes, I stand corrected. The terminator does run right through Central
America puting NA in darkness and SA in light in winter AM.
: [The typical advice for someone in a deep hole is to stop digging. In
: your case, you're deep enough that you might be better off continuing on
: through to the other side...]
And stop learning?! Not on your life! I can be wrong. Fine. But I refuse
to stop learning. If your philosphy is to shut up in fear of being wrong
rather than be wrong and then as a result learn something, then you should
change your approach. My ego is simply not that large that it needs to get
fed by being right all the time.
Eric