Mystery Mountain Meteorite Malady
Pat Flannery
Space debris with hydrazine in it?
Emerging volcano?
Martian invasion?
The world waits, watches, and wonders.
Meanwhile, two brave FBI agents rush to the scene. :-)
Pat
Scott Lowther
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070918/sc_afp/peruhealthoffbeat
> The world waits, watches, and wonders....
... whether this had anything to do with K-Fed or Paris Hilton.
Pat Flannery
Scott Lowther wrote:
>
>> The world waits, watches, and wonders....
>
> ... whether this had anything to do with K-Fed or Paris Hilton.
Here's a photo of the crater:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/space/article/0,,2171920,00.html
It does indeed appear to have water in it, with what might be bubbles on
the surface.
You take me to meteor impact where "chunks of silver" may contaminate
the soil, and I'll do the clean-up free of charge. :-)
Space debris with hypergolics onboard would meet the criteria for the
metal and sickening odor, but to make a hole that big would take a
booster stage; anybody had a failed launch of late?
" 'None of the meteorites that fall in Peru and make perforations of
varied sizes are harmful for people, unless they fall on a house,' he
said. Another meteorite fell to Earth in Arequipa province in June."
Peru got a meteor magnet in it or something?
Sooner or later a diver is bound to go into the hole...he'll be the
first ones the Martians suck the blood out of before the war machines
begin to emerge. ;-)
Pat
Pat Flannery
Pat Flannery wrote:
>
> Space debris with hypergolics onboard would meet the criteria for the
> metal and sickening odor, but to make a hole that big would take a
> booster stage; anybody had a failed launch of late?
Is this it?: http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0709/11kosmos/
Or this one? http://www.russiatoday.ru/scitech/news/14088
Pat
Dr.Colo...@gmail.com
More photos of the impact site and official
reaction.....................................doc ....
http://www.rakeenterprises.com/Stills%20Pages/andromeda.html
Pat Flannery
Dr.Colo...@gmail.com wrote:
> More photos of the impact site and official
> reaction.....................................doc ....
> http://www.rakeenterprises.com/Stills%20Pages/andromeda.html
>
At first I was going to title the post "The Andromeda Strain?" but I
like Fleet Street Rag rhyming for oddball stories.
You know, like this:
http://www.findaceleb.com/girls/p/piper-billie/000023.jpg
That's downright Shakespearian. A masterpiece!
Ah, if they just had let me do a Walter Winchell style radio program
for Pravda:
"Good morning, Mr. and Mrs. Moscow, all the Soviets at sea! Flash!" ;-)
The one that was freakishly close to The Andromeda Strain's "Scoop"
mission was when the NASA Genesis solar wind sample return mission hit
the desert floor without the parachutes opening.
I still think that The Andromeda Strain and Contact were two of the most
imaginative sci-fi films ever done.
And they were real sci-fi as opposed to fantasy; the things they showed,
though very unlikely*, weren't impossible.
This story should be fun to keep up on.
I still think that the odds are that this is a piece of space debris
rather than a meteorite.
* I sure hope that's the case in regards to The Andromeda Strain.
Pat
Dr.Colo...@gmail.com
If it were space debris would it have hit with that much energy? I
don't think I've seen that much energy ever for space debris. (Except
maybe that great clip of that V2 whistling in straight down near its
launch pad and that perfectly V shaped explosion plume. Tho' I think
that might have still been powered.)...............Doc
Pat Flannery
Dr.Colo...@gmail.com wrote:
> If it were space debris would it have hit with that much energy? I
> don't think I've seen that much energy ever for space debris. (Except
> maybe that great clip of that V2 whistling in straight down near its
> launch pad and that perfectly V shaped explosion plume. Tho' I think
> that might have still been powered.)...............Doc
>
I never could figure out if the V-2 was generating thrust on the way
down or not. There is something coming out of the back, but it's hard to
tell if it's exhaust. I'm pretty sure it had a live warhead on it though
from the size of the blast when it hits. The Luftwaffe were very PO'd
about that incident though as it came down on their test airfield at
Peenemunde and severely damaged some of their test He-111Z glider tug
aircraft.
Based on the recent Dneper failure that blew a hole in the Kazakhstan
desert when the fully fueled upper stage stage hit, a rocket stage with
hydrazine on a ballistic trajectory would make a hole like this...but
whose rocket would it be? The launch site would almost have to be in
South America somewhere.
Is Peru shooting off Scud missiles? There were reports in 1995-1996 that
they had acquirred Scud B's:
http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/misc/sws_scud010426.shtml
"Unconfirmed reports in 1995 and 1996 have suggested that `Scud B'
missiles may have been purchased by Armenia, Ecuador, Pakistan, Peru and
Democratic Republic of the Congo; but these might have been built in the
former Soviet Union or elsewhere."
Pat
Pat Flannery
Pat Flannery wrote:
>
> Is Peru shooting off Scud missiles? There were reports in 1995-1996
> that they had acquirred Scud B's:
> http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/misc/sws_scud010426.shtml
>
> "Unconfirmed reports in 1995 and 1996 have suggested that `Scud B'
> missiles may have been purchased by Armenia, Ecuador, Pakistan, Peru
> and Democratic Republic of the Congo; but these might have been built
> in the former Soviet Union or elsewhere."
Here we go: http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/envs/scud_irfna.htm
This fits very neatly to the observed facts; respertory symtems on those
that approached the crater, flaming object falling from sky, big crater
with metal debris around it.
It's no wonder that they are getting skin lesions if they are handling
debris with RFNA on it.
Peru must have test fired one and it didn't come down where it was
supposed to.
Pat
Dr.Colo...@gmail.com
> Pat Flannery wrote:
>
> > Is Peru shooting off Scud missiles? There were reports in 1995-1996
> > that they had acquirred Scud B's:
>
> > "Unconfirmed reports in 1995 and 1996 have suggested that `Scud B'
> > missiles may have been purchased by Armenia, Ecuador, Pakistan, Peru
> > and Democratic Republic of the Congo; but these might have been built
> > in the former Soviet Union or elsewhere."
>
> Here we go:http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/envs/scud_irfna.htm
> This fits very neatly to the observed facts; respertory symtems on those
> that approached the crater, flaming object falling from sky, big crater
> with metal debris around it.
> It's no wonder that they are getting skin lesions if they are handling
> debris with RFNA on it.
> Peru must have test fired one and it didn't come down where it was
> supposed to.
>
> Pat
Sounds like that may be a neat fit in this case, never considered.
Makes you wonder why in the hell they would be test firing a Scud
tho' ? Was it muscle flexing , show, or training or maybe even
working on next years Carnival (or something thereabouts)? All things
considered pretty isolated, only a town or two in jeopardy. Do you
have any info on that V2 damaging the He 111 tug or on the incident
itself? Always guessing how fast that was going when it impacted,
roughest estimate I'ld venture is near mach 1 (just don't ask how I
arrive at that one) ..............Doc
Pat Flannery
Dr.Colo...@gmail.com wrote:
> Do you
> have any info on that V2 damaging the He 111 tug or on the incident
> itself? Always guessing how fast that was going when it impacted,
> roughest estimate I'ld venture is near mach 1 (just don't ask how I
> arrive at that one) ..............Doc
>
I dug some stuff on the incident in the book "V-Missiles Of The Third
Reich".
The missiles was A4 V38 (A4 rocket test vehicle #38) in that book they
say it wasn't carrying a warhead, and the explosion was due to the fuel
detonating on impact.
The color stills just before impact show some flames back at the
exhaust, but they are only going a couple feet behind the rocket, so it
looks like thrust was pretty much terminated by the time of impact.
Impact occurred 27 seconds after liftoff.
According to this, launch was on June 29th, 1943:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_V-2_test_launches, with a burn time
of 15 seconds and a range of 3 km...although they don't give the nature
of what went wrong with it, that makes it sound like the engine shut
down prematurely.
The missile fell on Karlshagen airfield blowing out a impressive crater,
although the combustion chamber survived intact.
The book shows a couple of photos of a He-111H (markings BJ+ST) that
was in close proximity to the impact point.
The concussion wave has blown every last panel of the glazing out of the
bomber's canopy while leaving the framework largely intact.
The impact point was just a little shy of 2 miles from the launch point
(test stand VII).
I read about the damage to the He-111Z's in some other book a long time
back, although I've never seen photos of them at Peenemunde - in fact,
there are very few existing photos of them at all.
Pat
Rick Jones
> The color stills just before impact show some flames back at the
> exhaust, but they are only going a couple feet behind the rocket, so it
> looks like thrust was pretty much terminated by the time of impact.
If the rocket was going (mostly) straight down, unless the tanks were
pressurized, or they had drains at the top, I guess it stands to
reason that thrust would have terminated no?
rick jones
--
portable adj, code that compiles under more than one compiler
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... :)
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...
Pat Flannery
Rick Jones wrote:
> If the rocket was going (mostly) straight down, unless the tanks were
> pressurized, or they had drains at the top, I guess it stands to
> reason that thrust would have terminated no?
>
In the film it takes off, starts to arc over like it would on its normal
ballistic trajectory, keeps right on arcing over, and ends up going
straight down. If it were under positive acceleration the whole way due
to the engine's thrust, the propellants would still be seated at the
base of the tanks and could feed to the engine, even if it were going
straight down.
Pat
Rick Jones
> In the film it takes off, starts to arc over like it would on its
> normal ballistic trajectory, keeps right on arcing over, and ends up
> going straight down. If it were under positive acceleration the
> whole way due to the engine's thrust, the propellants would still be
> seated at the base of the tanks and could feed to the engine, even
> if it were going straight down.
That would have to be positive acceleration greater than 1G right?
rick jones
--
a wide gulf separates "what if" from "if only"
OM
wrote:
>This fits very neatly to the observed facts; respertory symtems on those
>that approached the crater, flaming object falling from sky, big crater
>with metal debris around it.
...You know, we've all been making the jokes about Andromeda(*),
nobody's asked the *really* important question: are there any old bums
with dogs who were last seen poking sticks into the hole?
(*) One of the things Crichton needs to do is to give that classic the
one modernization tweak that'll make the epilog finally some sense:
The reason Andromeda's a crystal is that it's actually a nanite whose
purpose is to keep Humanity grounded on Earth by destroying all
synthetic rubbers - polycron, sorbathane - that are necessary for
pressure gaskets on spacecraft.
OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[
Pat Flannery
Rick Jones wrote:
> Pat Flannery <fla...@daktel.com> wrote:
>
>> In the film it takes off, starts to arc over like it would on its
>> normal ballistic trajectory, keeps right on arcing over, and ends up
>> going straight down. If it were under positive acceleration the
>> whole way due to the engine's thrust, the propellants would still be
>> seated at the base of the tanks and could feed to the engine, even
>> if it were going straight down.
>>
>
> That would have to be positive acceleration greater than 1G right?
>
Yeah, it would be in freefall, but with with the engine pushing it the
propellants would move to the back of the tanks as it was driven
downwards faster than it would naturally fall.
From the statement on the Wikipedia article that the engine stopped
after 15 seconds, it looks like it just arched over and fell back to
Earth like a bomb, its high impact speed being due to its streamlined
shape, although some flames are visible at the back end as it descends.
If that were the case, the propellants would move to the front of the
tanks due to air drag slowing it a bit below pure freefall speed.
What hits me as odd for one having no warhead is how much debris gets
tossed into the air when it hits; I assume that may be due to the
violent mixing of the Lox and alcohol on impact generating a very
explosive mixture.
Pat
Pat Flannery
OM wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:11:55 -0500, Pat Flannery <fla...@daktel.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> This fits very neatly to the observed facts; respertory symtems on those
>> that approached the crater, flaming object falling from sky, big crater
>> with metal debris around it.
>>
>
> ...You know, we've all been making the jokes about Andromeda(*),
> nobody's asked the *really* important question: are there any old bums
> with dogs who were last seen poking sticks into the hole?
>
Never a wise idea...no smarter going into a sandpit where you saw a
saucer land during a thunderstorm.
This is getting very funny, I've read around eight different and
contradictory stories coming out of the place in the past twelve hours.
1.) The Peruvian doctors say no one got sick, and it was mass hysteria
caused by a meteorite going bang.
2.) The Peruvian government says that 150-600 people were made ill by
the foul smell.
3.) The Peruvian geologists say it was a stony meteorite.
4.) The Peruvian astronomers say it was a chondrite meteorite.
5.) There was no bad odor.
6.) There was a bad odor, as the meteorite had sulfur in it.
7.) The water in the pit boiled after the impact.
8.) The water in the pit did not boil after the impact.
I have never heard of a meteorite making people sick with its smell, and
although movies will tell you otherwise, meteorites that are glowing
all the way to impact are going to make a bigger crater than that as
they are going to be going around Mach 10, and that implies they have a
large mass so that the atmosphere doesn't slow them down, and that means
a very big blast on impact.
Also, meteorites tend to be icy cold, not hot, on impact...as their
outer layers ablate as they enter the atmosphere like a heatshield,
leaving the core that is cold as interplanetary space.
Sooner or later somebody's going to go into the hole and see what's down
there.
Black Oil, of course. :-)
Pat
Dave Michelson
>
> Never a wise idea...no smarter going into a sandpit where you saw a
> saucer land during a thunderstorm.
> This is getting very funny, I've read around eight different and
> contradictory stories coming out of the place in the past twelve hours.
> 1.) The Peruvian doctors say no one got sick, and it was mass hysteria
> caused by a meteorite going bang.
> 2.) The Peruvian government says that 150-600 people were made ill by
> the foul smell.
> 3.) The Peruvian geologists say it was a stony meteorite.
> 4.) The Peruvian astronomers say it was a chondrite meteorite.
> 5.) There was no bad odor.
> 6.) There was a bad odor, as the meteorite had sulfur in it.
> 7.) The water in the pit boiled after the impact.
> 8.) The water in the pit did not boil after the impact.
My favourite is the repeated assurances that the site isn't radioactive.
I can't believe that Associated Press is repeating all this.
--
Dave Michelson
da...@ece.ubc.ca
Pat Flannery
Dave Michelson wrote:
>
> My favourite is the repeated assurances that the site isn't radioactive.
>
> I can't believe that Associated Press is repeating all this.
I still liked the one where it was just a natural lake, and people
mistook it for a crater.
Most natural lakes are tiny, circular, and surrounded by a raised rim of
disturbed soil and debris. :-)
I still wouldn't completely rule out something volcanic in nature though.
Yesterday, when Bloomberg was talking about a "luminous substance"
around the crater that caused skin lesions in those who handled it:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aM4JoplTwAWI&refer=latin_america
...I thought "oh-oh...this is a RTG or reactor off of a satellite and
they are playing around with isotopes or the sodium/potassium heat
transfer fluid."
Pat
Dr.Colo...@gmail.com
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:11:55 -0500, Pat Flannery <flan...@daktel.com>
> wrote:
>
> >This fits very neatly to the observed facts; respertory symtems on those
> >that approached the crater, flaming object falling from sky, big crater
> >with metal debris around it.
>
> ...You know, we've all been making the jokes about Andromeda(*),
> nobody's asked the *really* important question: are there any old bums
> with dogs who were last seen poking sticks into the hole?
>
> (*) One of the things Crichton needs to do is to give that classic the
> one modernization tweak that'll make the epilog finally some sense:
> The reason Andromeda's a crystal is that it's actually a nanite whose
> purpose is to keep Humanity grounded on Earth by destroying all
> synthetic rubbers - polycron, sorbathane - that are necessary for
> pressure gaskets on spacecraft.
>
> OM
> --
> ]=====================================[
> ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
> ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
> ]=====================================[
Further on: a natural substitute is found in corn oil (proprietary
process) with FritoLay therefore becoming the earths new Engulf and
Devour.
With Corn oil gone, and Saflower on the mat, there is no more
margarine or Discovery Channel specials, cars chug to a halt by the
side of the road (in Brazil) and civilization starts a precarious
slide. But wait, humans seize the moment to expand outwards, and ,
and then its 1 by 3 by 9....... Its a rough draft I realize but with
a little rework I think.................Doc
Rick Jones
> What hits me as odd for one having no warhead is how much debris
> gets tossed into the air when it hits; I assume that may be due to
> the violent mixing of the Lox and alcohol on impact generating a
> very explosive mixture.
I guess we now know the secret ingredient of Russia's Father of All
Bombs :)
rick jones
--
Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events.
Pat Flannery
Dr.Colo...@gmail.com wrote:
> Further on: a natural substitute is found in corn oil (proprietary
> process) with FritoLay therefore becoming the earths new Engulf and
> Devour.
> With Corn oil gone, and Saflower on the mat, there is no more
> margarine or Discovery Channel specials, cars chug to a halt by the
> side of the road (in Brazil) and civilization starts a precarious
> slide. But wait, humans seize the moment to expand outwards, and ,
> and then its 1 by 3 by 9....... Its a rough draft I realize but with
> a little rework I think.................Doc
>
Don't forget the monkeys.
Pat
Dr.Colo...@gmail.com
"Waadya mean he don't eat no meat"?.........Doc