How cool is VL2
Brad Guth
Venus, receiving 14% worth of the solar photosphere illumination.
There's actually a bit more of what the outer most realm of the solar
atmospheric/chromosphere illumination that should make VL2 worth roughly
20% of the total solar illumination impact (especially if you'd care to
include those impressive CME loops), but the vast bulk of the
photosphere's IR spectrum is what's getting nicely diverted by as much
as 90% via the highly reflective 12,250 km diameter blockage of Venus,
and best of all, hardly if any of those nasty halo CMEs would ever get a
clear shot at VL2.
What VL2 might often get to see is a bit more impressive than the
following "coronal_loop" images have to suggest.
http://www.bu.edu/cism/CISM_Thrusts/solaratmosphere.html
http://sprg.ssl.berkeley.edu/shine/suntoday.html
http://trace.lmsal.com/
Unfortunately, TRACE isn't going to last forever, and setting up
TRACE-II (such as at VL2) along with a 10 fold improvement in utilizing
mirror optics and outfitted with even better CCDs seems well worth our
doing.
A properly controlled station-keeping halo orbit could actually manage
to receive as much or as little solar illumination and thus IR spectrum
warmth as desired, because, with the minimum of IR being as slight as
10% represents that a highly reflective POOF space depot would otherwise
become a touch cold.
For an example:
14% of the VL2's 2625 j/m2 = 368 j/m2
368 j/m2 is actually offering a bit more then the average solar energy
that's terrestrial, although the back side or thermal exit phase of VL2
is most likely extremely cold. Therefore, accomplishing a
station-keeping halo orbit of allowing perhaps 25% of the solar energy
to reach this VL2 space station might be about right, at 656 j/m2
(roughly 5% less than what our ISS has upon average to work with
(especially since VL2 is w/o venus-shine).
Therefore, of whatever is at all ISS/POOF suitable for LEO application
should be directly usable as is, if not a whole lot better suited for
the Venus L2 placement, with lots of available options for obtaining
more or less solar energy as the situation demands, and best of all,
there's even less of the lethal forms of radiation to deal with.
With much of the solar atmosphere emitting in the near-UV and UV
spectrum, the VL2 photo cells should actually do just fine and dandy,
and otherwise survive better off than having to deal with the IR
spectrum along with avoiding most of the flak contributed by way of
those pesky CME halo events which can bcome downright lethal.
The question is, other than taking whatever's my best swag as to what
VL2 has to offer, what is your best swag at the cool nature of VL2?
-
Brad Guth
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Brad Guth
news:943268f4698ce93ff8a...@mygate.mailgate.org
Apparently, Venus L2 is better than POOF certified, as well as otherwise
having been doable for more than a decade, if not before then (certainly
a whole lot DNA safer and tonnes cooler than MEL1).
VL2 is every bit as cool as you'd like a science space station or
outpost depot to be, yet it's taboo/nondisclosure rated by way of this
anti-think-tank of a mostly faith based naysay Usenet from hell.
No wonder our resident LLPOF warlord(GW Bush) has been setting us
village idiots up for accommodating his WW-III of global energy
domination.
Brad Guth
What's the matter? (cat got your mainstream status quo tongue?)
I guess VL2 is potentially too cool for even the likes of POOF or Clarke
Station, but at least it's a whole lot more DNA safe than utilizing our
moon's L1.
Too bad that either our moon's L1 or that of any Venus L2 applications
are still being treated as though each are taboo/nondisclosure. I guess
that makes perfect sense in that Americans are such born-again
infomercial spewing wizards and all.
Art Deco
>"Brad Guth" <brad...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:943268f4698ce93ff8a...@mygate.mailgate.org
>
>What's the matter? (cat got your mainstream status quo tongue?)
Why are you asking questions of yourself, Brad? Are you expecting an
answer?
Brad Guth
Sorry folks, it seems that we haven't walked on our extremely big old
and otherwise nearby moon, but so what's the difference if one more
silly lie begets another and another?
If not in person, I hope to hell we don't summarily screw up Venus via
robotics to the extent that we've accomplished so much dastardly
commercial pillaging, trashing and raping of mother Earth without so
much as a speck of remorse.
I obviously care most about Venus, as our moon seriously sucks, and
Venus is otherwise more than obviously where all the action is at,
especially since Pluto got the royal shaft, as seemingly Ceres is
getting a similar official NASA fid, and Mercury is simply too off-world
as well as past the point of return (similar to Mars).
At least VL2 is more than cool enough, as to being POOF/(space depot)
doable.
While rather quickly roasting our weiners on Venus, how much energy do
you folks suppose a good air conditioning system as part of your
CO2-->CO/O2 process is going to demand?
Remember, at that sort of environment pressure you'll not require more
than a 1% O2 factor, and the remainder should be of H2. Thus 99% H2 and
1% O2. Also remember that you'll be continually fighting off the lesser
gravity of 90.5%, and otherwise having all of that pesky 64+ kg/m3 of
buoyancy to fend off. Of course, if you only had half a village idiot
brain, as such you might as well utilize such factors as to your
benefit.
Say per 1000 m3/(interior 10 x 20 x 5 meter abode) if that Venusian
habitat volume were insulated at R-1024/m2; what's the thermal budget
of keeping your cache of beer and vodka icy cold?
That's roughly a surface/foundation area of 264 m2, a portion of what
should be roughly a 828 m2 exterior that's exposed to the hotter than
hell surface that's getting rid of 20 J/m2, and otherwise fending off
the somewhat toasty atmosphere. Therefore it's nearly always hot
outside and there's just the structual composite insulated barrier of
R-1024/m that's giving way to an inward flux of thermal conduction
that's worth 0.00097656/m2 to deal with, which seems rather managable,
if not a touch overkill.
Is there something otherwise specific that you'd like to review or
constructively contribute, such as on behalf of those nifty composite
rigid airships?
How about we review on behalf of defending yourself from those
exoskeletal Cathars that can't seem to take no for an answer?
Would you like to talk about the VL2 platform/depot or how about
interplanetary communications?
Brad Guth
And once again and again, I see that we have the usual PC/MAC trashing
game of Usenet spooks, moles and wise old fart MIB wizards deploying
their best spermware/fuckware, as obviously the norm of their mainstream
status quo. Therefore, we'll just have to keep updating and reposting
until a few of them NASA/Apollo rad-hard cows come home.
It's a little bit like The Wizard of Oz on steroids; Sorry folks,
whereas it seems that we haven't quite gotten around to having walked on
our extremely big old and otherwise nearby moon that's so physically
massive in ratio to Earth, as well as being so physically dark and nasty
(hardly Apollo passive guano island like and xenon lamp spectrum
illuminated at that), but so what's the difference if one more silly lie
begets another and another?
Our moon may have to remain as a mostly robotic wonderland, as otherwise
merely a nasty realm of local and secondary/recoil energy that's
accessible via a safe looking glass from the moon's L1, whereas
otherwise it's somewhat physically DNA/RNA taboo. Although, Venus isn't
off limits unless you're a certified moron, and VL2 is certainly more
than space station doable as is. Venus shouldn't ever require any
terraforming on our behalf, just damn good CO2-->CO/O2 air conditioning
and structural composite basalt as insulation that's worth R-1024/m.
If not in person, I hope to hell we don't summarily screw up Venus via
robotics to the extent that we've accomplished so much dastardly
commercial forms of collateral damage by way of having pillaged, trashed
and the ongoing energy raping of mother Earth without so much as a speck
of remorse.
I obviously care most about Venus, as our moon seriously sucks, whereas
the planet Venus is otherwise more than obviously where all the serious
action of other intelligent life is at, especially since Pluto got the
royal shaft, as seemingly Ceres is getting a similar official NASA fid,
and Mercury is simply too off-world as well as past the point of return
(similar to Mars).
At least VL2 is more than cool enough, as to being POOF/(space depot)
doable, and every 19 months it gets to within 100 fold the distance of
our moon. If that isn't the best ever Russian/POOF good news, or what,
then nothing is.
While rather quickly roasting our wieners on Venus (a few seconds ott to
do the trick), how much energy do you folks suppose a good air
conditioning system as part of your CO2-->CO/O2 process is going to
demand?
Remember, at that sort of environment pressure you'll not require more
than a 1% O2 factor, and the remainder should be of H2. Thus having 99%
H2 and 1% O2 at 96 Bar is about all the atmospheric displacement of that
otherwise crystal clear and dry CO2 that's otherwise relatively harmless
that you'll ever need. Also remember that you'll be continually
fighting off the lesser gravity of 90.5%, and otherwise having all of
that pesky 64+ kg/m3 of buoyancy to fend off. Of course, if you only
had half a village idiot brain, as such you might as well utilize such
factors as to your benefit.
Say if this were an application per 1000 m3/(interior 10 x 20 x 5 meter
abode), and if that Venusian habitat volume were insulated at R-1024/m2;
what's the thermal energy budget of keeping your cache of beer and vodka
icy cold?
That's roughly a surface/foundation area of 264 m2, a portion of what
should be roughly a 828 m2 exterior that's in part exposed to the hotter
than hell surface that's getting rid of 20 J/m2, and otherwise fending
off the somewhat toasty atmosphere that's always cooler than the
geothermally forced surface. Therefore, without question it's nearly
always hot outside and there's just the structural composite basalt
insulated barrier of R-1024/m that's giving way to an inward flux of
thermal conduction that's worthy of having 0.00097656/m2 (0.0977% which
I believe is roughly less than 0.45 K/m2/hr) of that bone dry heat to
deal with, which seems by all manner of known physics as being rather
manageable, if not a touch overkill.
BTW; Venus has all the raw elements and the energy for locally
processing whatever into the required items of surviving Venus (except
for having enough ice cold beer and pizza). All that's required is the
small factor of applied intelligence or simply deductive common sense
should otherwise more than do the trick.
Is there something other that's specific about accomplishing Venus that
you'd like to review or constructively contribute, such as on behalf of
those nifty composite rigid airships?
How about we review on behalf of defending yourself from those
exoskeletal Cathars that can't seem to take no for an answer? (you're
not alone, you know)
Would you folks like to talk about the Russian VL2 POOF platform/depot,
or how about laser interplanetary communications (much the same as
NASA's deep space network), except for making those less spendy local
interplanetary calls that shouldn't take hardly any energy to accomplish
with a quantum binary packet mode of 425 nm FM/(+/-25 nm) photons doing
their extremely efficient thing.
Brad Guth
Since Venus L2 seems rather Usenet taboo/nondisclosure (off limits), and
since folks here in Usenet land of all that's spook/mole orchestrated as
anti-think-tank naysayism can't manage to behave themselves, much less
focus constructively upon the original topic at hand; here's yet
another of my constructive GS(global shading) contributions, of related
research work in progress to share:
Though not impossible, it is simply not all that likely that Earth's
moon emerged from within mother Earth, whereas more likely as having
materialized from an incoming glancing sucker punch, such as by that of
a Sirius Oort cloud icy item, as for Earth having received a nasty blow
(say having created an arctic ocean basin like impression, along with
causing that seasonal tilt), by a very icy proto-moon (possibly of 4,000
km).
For a brief example; If the orbital distance were made half and thus
the velocity would have to double because the mutual gravity of
attraction would have become 4X, therefore we'd have introduced 16 fold
more inside and out worth of centripetal/tidal energy to deal with, and
I'm not all that sure mother Earth would have stayed glued together at
that level of horrific gravitional and internal tidal forced trauma,
much less for cutting that orbital distance by yet another half (making
its previous orbit at 96,100 km and velocity of 4.092 km/s) would have
to impose yet another 16 fold factor, or rather suggesting 256 fold
worse global warming trauma than what we currently are suffering from
the existing tidal and thereby unavoidable GW affects as is.
The mainstream argument(s) against my icy proto-moon argument, as to
what's not quite adding up, soon becomes a real physics piss-off; How
much time did it take for that moon which supposedly emerged from within
Earth, to have reached the orbital altitude of 96,100 km, then having
migrated from 96,100 km out to where it's currently operating at 384,400
km? (thus far, none of those spendy computer simulations seem clean
enough)
If within the regular laws of physics and by way of scientific matter of
fact, suggesting that we do seem to have at our disposal 2e20 joules of
potential mascon tidal energy via the mutual Earth/moon gravity and the
for ever ongoing centripetal force to deal with, as applied energy
that's coming or ongoing per each and every second, as such that's
actually imposing a rather great potential of interactive planet<-->moon
energy that's obviously existing and ongoing, or simply as coming or
going as to/from somewhere or otherwise having to coexist as real
energy.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/cf.html#cf
AJ Gravity Equations Formulas Calculator
http://www.ajdesigner.com/phpgravity/newtons_law_gravity_equation_force.php
Just for our calculating the Earth/moon static or passive worth of
gravitational force:
object 1 mass (m1) = 5.9736e24 kilogram
object 2 mass (m2) = 7.349e22 kilogram
distance between objects (r) = 384.4e6 meters
grams of gravitational force(F) = 2.021492e22 g
The kg of gravitational force = 2.021492e19 kg
Here's some more of this weird physics math that doesn't quite fit the
status quo mold, suggesting as to what it'll create by way of our having
placed 7.35e22 kg at Earth's L1 if we excluded the sun itself, which of
course can't ever be the case.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/cf.html#cf
r = 1.5376e9 meters
M = 7.35e22 kg
V = 112e3 m/s (if in relation to Earth's 24 hr rotation)
Centripetal force: Fc = 5.996254e23 N = 6.11448e22 kgf
6.11448e22 kgf * 9.80665 = 5.996e23 joules Earth-->L1
However, since the notion of having our moon relocated at Earth's L1 is
essentially having diverted such into no longer orbiting us, there's
actually zero centripetal interaction taking place (Earth is simply
rather nicely spinning for no apparent reason at the end of this mutual
and somewhat nullified sol/moon/Earth gravity string), whereas
Sol-->Earth L1 is supposedly the primary gravity influence of what takes
back or rather nullifies all of the moon's gravity as well as having
eliminated the centripetal force of whatever's equivalent in joules
worth of implied energy:
As for the sol<-->moon orbital interaction, as having established a
7.35e22 kg planetoid of orbital Fc = 44.4975e25 joules
object 1 mass (m1) = 1.989e30 kilogram
object 2 mass (m2) = 7.35e22 kilogram
distance between objects (r) = 148060290 meters
gravitational force (F) = 4.5375282969184E+25 kgf
The kgf as energy.s = 4.5375283e25 * 9.80655 = 44.4975e25 joules
Obviously the opposing gravity force/energy relationship that's
involving mother Earth has to be taken into account. I simply haven't
gotten that far.
In other words, with our moon relocated out to Earth L1, we/Earth lose
out on the original 2e20 joules, replaced by the sol/moon combined
gravity and tidal influence that's going to become considerably less
imposing than what we'd had ongoing from having that horrific amount of
nearby orbiting mass of 7.35e22 kg and cruising at 1.023 km/s. However,
we/Earth get to deal with our fair share portion of the 44.4975e25
joules while that moon becomes our local planetoid that's cruising
within Earth's L1, as our binary partner on behalf of offering that much
needed shade.
Since we're talking about the existing Fc as a centripetal force per
second, therefore the conversion over to joules is also of one that's
based upon a second by second basis.
1 joule = 1 W.s (watt second)
3600 j = 1 W.h (watt hour)
1 watt hour of applied energy is therefore worth: 3600 joules
1 joule/sec as applied for an hour thereby also = 3600 joules
Each kgf (kg of applied force/m/s) = 9.80665 joules
There's roughly 2.0394e19 kgf of Fc (centripetal force) that's
continually second by second as ongoing opposing force between Earth and
our unusually massive and nearby orbiting mascon/moon.
The second by second amount of centripetal force becomes:
2.0215e19 * 9.80665 = 19.824e19 joules
Per hour, that amount of second by second applied energy becomes worth:
2e20 j * 3.6e3 = 7.2e23 W.h (watts per hour), or 7.2e20 kw
At 7.2e20 / 5.112e14 m2 = 1.408e6 kw/m2
Obviously we're not getting ourselves mascon/moon roasted or otherwist
tramatised to death by way of that horrific amount of applied energy,
though a small portion of that mutual (inside and out) tidal induced
energy is unavoidably becoming thermal energy via friction (inside and
out). In addition to the Fc of 7.2e20 KW.h, there's also a touch of the
moon's IR/FIR as terrestrial influx, although because we're continually
being science data starved, as without having moon/L1 data, is why I've
not yet accounted for the reflected and secondary worth of such IR/FIR
energy that's received by Earth.
The slight portion of the mascon gravity that's offset by centripetal
force is what I'm suggesting is capable of global warming us inside and
out, as listing below:
0.1% = 1.408 kw/m2
0.01% = 140.8 w/m2
0.001% = 14 w/m2
0.0001% = 1.4 w/m2
However, since I'm on such a Usenet taboo or banishment status of a
need-to-know basis, and since I clearly do not already know all there is
to know, is why some of my math could be unintentionally skewed or even
dead wrong. Therefore, if your wizardly expertise should know any
better, perhaps you could simply share by telling us how much or how
little of that total amount of nearby mascon gravity and centripetal
force of applied tidal energy is actually keeping us a little extra warm
and toasty. My swag is leaning towards the 0.001% of the 7.2e20 KW.h,
as being worth 14 w/m2. Of course that's applied inside and out,
including a tidal forced atmosphere and otherwise all the way down to
the very core of Earth, and thereby affecting most everything in between
that's in any way fluid or capable of getting moved along by such
forces.
Therefore, take away our moon and subsequently a major portion of our
surface environment becomes rather extra snowy and icy cold to the
touch, not to mention rather albedo reflective to boot, perhaps even ice
age cold enough as to reestablish a few of those badly receding glaciers
and otherwise expand those polar caps. At least that's what the regular
laws of physics and of replicated science has been suggesting. That's
not my excluding or disqualifying the human GW factor of our global
dimming via soot and by having added those nasty elements (including
h2o) into our frail environment that's obviously anything but within
energy balance, that are directly and/or indirectly polluting our oceans
and atmosphere, like none other or even by what the entire collective of
known species other than human can accomplish (are we humans good at
raping and sucking the very life out of mother Earth, or what).
However, as bad off as that sounds, I simply do not place more than 25%
responsibility onto ourselves, and perhaps that's even worth as little
as 10% of the ongoing global warming demise that's plaguing us until we
manage to relocate that pesky moon of our's.
Too bad there's not one American supercomputer that's worthy of running
any of this analogy, at least not without blowing out their mainstream
status quo CPUs. Apparently only of what's Old Testament faith based,
or as hocus-pocus and/or cloak and dagger analogies can be run as fully
3D interactive computer simulations. As God forbid, you certainly
wouldn't want to rock thy good ship LOLLIPOP with the truth, now would
we.
Unfortunately, our ongoing demise of our highly protective
magnetosphere, at the rate of -0.05%/year, may eventually overtake the
GW factor, as being the more human DNA and of other forms of life
ultimate lethal demise of these two ongoing gauntlets, which added
together are going to represent more trauma than most such forms of life
as we know of can manage to evolve our way through, or otherwise survive
via applied technology.
Perhaps if the status quo gets its usual brown-nosed Skull and Bones
worth of big-energy buttology certified way, whereas life on Venus
(though naked humanly hot) isn't looking quite as bad off as we've been
faith-based mainstream informed.
Brad Guth
That's odd, Venus L2 being rather cool and thereby fully POOF doable and
all, and yet there's not one Usenet all-knowing word of wisdom to
behold.
Art Deco
>"Brad Guth" <brad...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:74966e0536c2175d697...@mygate.mailgate.org
>
>That's odd, Venus L2 being rather cool and thereby fully POOF doable and
>all, and yet there's not one Usenet all-knowing word of wisdom to
>behold.
Here's one word for you, Brad:
"bollocks"
--
Supreme Leader of the Brainwashed Followers of Art Deco
"To err is human, to cover it up is Weasel" -- Dogbert
Brad Guth
Of all the nifty places we can affordably and safely reach with our
existing fly-by-rocket technology as of decades ago, Venus L2 is
certainly a cool place to be, with secondly being that of our
establishing a mostly if not entirely robotic science platform at our
moon's L2 that's really nearby us.
However, are the few and far between likes of "Joann Evans" and "Martha
H Adams" dead and gone?
It seems as though, all that's left within this mostly Usenet brown-nose
land of unlimited butt-suckings are those MI/NSA~MIB spooks and moles,
doing their usual Old Testament thing of acting out and/or reacting
rather badly as though functioning exactly like the Jewish sorts of
Third Reich (aka Skull and Bones). Am I wrong?
Take to mentioning or otherwise sharing anything about intelligent other
life, or much less that of forbid any honest thoughts of sharing upon
intelligent design and of applied technology as utilized on behalf of
whatever we as well as ETs should be capable of, then sit back and watch
as all of Usenet status quo hell brakes lose, as though having gone
Mormon or perhaps Amish on us, and of otherwise going absolutely naysay
postal like a certain Pope did to those nice Cathars.
If I show folks a perfectly good picture (better pixel truth worthy
image than offered by most any visual spectrum CCD format) of what's
offering us sufficient physical evidence as a perfectly deductive form
of reasonably interpreted proof, as to sharing in whatever's
existing/coexisting as intelligent other life upon Venus, and suddenly
it's WW-III, if not a whole lot worse.
Share most any honest thought pertaining to our extremely large and
nearby moon that's truly a one of a kind orb by way of its ratio to that
of the associated planet, and at best you've got yourself another nasty
all-or-nothing gauntlet butt-load of causing seriously big trouble in
NASA's River City.
Contribute an honest thought as to resolving our ongoing lack of clean
or even dirty energy and of the partly human associated global warming
fiascos, then watch as faster than a speeding bullet you've got more
than your fair share of those big-energy and pro-government brown-noses
that start coming out of the wood, as well as emerging out of those
mainstream status quo cesspools, like so many infomercial butt-flapping
clowns popping out of those silly little cars.
It's literally an ongoing bloody joke, as to what we're continually
doing to ourselves and to that of our badly failing environment, yet
those silly mainstream clowns keep arriving as though having an endless
supply of those spendy little clown cars that realty have the world's
worse possible EMPG ratings, and of their total dependence upon nasty
oil and/or of spendy and otherwise polluting fuel alternatives that we
can imagine. Unfortunately, this is all decades old news, and in some
instances it's simply too far gone past the point of no return.
In spite of the best available truths, every effort has been made to
disqualify or otherwise stock, bash and to banish upon allowing any form
of local or private America establishing the best applied technology of
clean and renewable energy. It's as though they (big-energy and
bigger-government) want us to pay that $1/kwhr or the equal worth in
whatever other forms of energy, while further insuring we'll have
established zilch worth of local or private alternatives to fall back
upon.
Our ongoing avoidance of our moon, of the moon's nifty L1, of anything
Venus or even that of establishing something/anything at VL2, and
especially that of our having avoided any chance of taking the nearby
Sirius star/solar system seriously, is absolutely and rather insanely
the most taboo/nondisclosure form of intellectual and scientific
blockage via mainstream crapolla that simply shouldn't exist, that is
unless you're stuck forever within some kind of pagan form of heathen
naysay mode of unlimited denial.
If you've got any better insider clue(s) as to what's going on, please
do share.
Brad Guth
You folks do realize just how cool Venus L2 is, don't you?
On average, VL2 is much cooler than what ISS has to deal with.
It's actually cool enough for accommodating a plastic Bigelow POOF, as
to survive rather nicely within VL2.
http://www.bigelowaerospace.com/
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/187/1
http://flyingsinger.blogspot.com/2006/07/bigelows-genesis.html
Bill Snyder
<brad...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Brad Guth" <brad...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:943268f4698ce93ff8a...@mygate.mailgate.org
>
>You folks do realize just how cool Venus L2 is, don't you?
Venus isn't cool, retard, and neither are you.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank.]
Brad Guth
news:f712u2ta816i2fblt...@4ax.com
> >"Brad Guth" <brad...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:943268f4698ce93ff8a...@mygate.mailgate.org
> >
> >You folks do realize just how cool Venus L2 is, don't you?
>
> Venus isn't cool, retard, and neither are you.
My God almighty, you silly folks actually don't know the difference
between Venus and that of Venus L2.
No wonder you're all so snookered and thus easily dumbfounded past the
point of no return. Here I'd thought I was merely stuck with the sorts
of having to fend off MI/NSA~MIB spooks, moles and/or the army of their
minion borgs (apparently fully incest cloned borgs none the less), when
in fact we're dealing with something far less qualified than a village
idiot, and highly bigoted lot to boot.
Sorry about all that. My mistake.
Prai Jei
<4aa74a8c0f790258918...@mygate.mailgate.org>:
> "Bill Snyder" <bsn...@airmail.net> wrote in message
> news:f712u2ta816i2fblt...@4ax.com
>
>> >"Brad Guth" <brad...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >news:943268f4698ce93ff8a...@mygate.mailgate.org
>> >
>> >You folks do realize just how cool Venus L2 is, don't you?
>>
>> Venus isn't cool, retard, and neither are you.
>
> My God almighty, you silly folks actually don't know the difference
> between Venus and that of Venus L2.
I wonder what they think the Trojan Position might be ;)
--
He hadde not leyser for to loke after who is his freend & who is his fo.
- The Cloud of Unknowing (anon, 14th century)
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
Bill Snyder
So when you posted all those messages to a thread that you titled "Our
moon is hot, Venus is not," you really meant the L2 point? When you
said, "Venus has certainly been a little different and perhaps a whole
lot more planetology rare on behalf of having accommodated intelligent
other life than Earth," you meant space-based life? When you said,
"You folks do realize that a fully manned rigid airship that's
cruising efficiently just below those cool nighttime clouds could
actually require some auxiliary cabin heat." -- that Zep would be
cruising through clouds at the L2 point?
Liar, lunatic, and retard.
The Ghost In The Machine
<brad...@yahoo.com>
wrote
on Sun, 25 Feb 2007 02:34:40 +0000 (UTC)
<2b204e3509484e1b527...@mygate.mailgate.org>:
> "Brad Guth" <brad...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:943268f4698ce93ff8a...@mygate.mailgate.org
>
> You folks do realize just how cool Venus L2 is, don't you?
>
> On average, VL2 is much cooler than what ISS has to deal with.
>
> It's actually cool enough for accommodating a plastic Bigelow POOF, as
> to survive rather nicely within VL2.
> http://www.bigelowaerospace.com/
> http://www.thespacereview.com/article/187/1
> http://flyingsinger.blogspot.com/2006/07/bigelows-genesis.html
> -
> Brad Guth
>
Um...forgive me for asking such a stupid question, but since space is so
tenuous anyway how does one measure the temperature of a point therein?
A better measurement is insolation or irradiation, especially if
something is trapped in a bubble (e.g., a spacecraft with some air,
water, etc. in it).
Also, I'm not entirely sure but presumably the Venus L2 point is much
farther away than low Earth orbit, or the Moon, making for certain
logistics difficulties (and higher expense).
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Linux. An OS which actually, unlike certain other offerings, works.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Brad Guth
message news:j0p8b4-...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net
> Um...forgive me for asking such a stupid question, but since space is so
> tenuous anyway how does one measure the temperature of a point therein?
> A better measurement is insolation or irradiation, especially if
> something is trapped in a bubble (e.g., a spacecraft with some air,
> water, etc. in it).
It's all basic physics and math, either of which I'm not terribly good
at, but supposedly you folks are. So, why don't you tell us what a POOF
space station at VL2 is in for?
At VL2 you've got roughly upon the spectrum average of 2550~2600 w/m2,
less whatever's the shade provided by Venus (which is a serious bunch
of shade).
> Also, I'm not entirely sure but presumably the Venus L2 point is much
> farther away than low Earth orbit, or the Moon, making for certain
> logistics difficulties (and higher expense).
Each and every 19 months, your the same face of Venus that comes to
within roughly 100 fold the distance of our moon. Therefore, you could
damn near toss a moon rock at Venus, and expect that rock to eventually
hit that big sucker (though perhaps not until the next 19 month cycle).
Whatever the logistics wouldn't be at most 10% of accomplishing Mars,
perhaps not 1% of our actually accomplishing any viable base camp upon
our own nasty and otherwise global warming moon, and to think that you
wouldn't have to pack along hardly any spare amounts of shielding or
energy for surviving within your composite rigid waverider airship, or
otherwise for the 19 month stay within the relatively cool VL2 POOF, nor
would your mission be having need of all that much spare energy for your
return trip from VL2 to Earth because, your exit energy demand from VL2
would be next to nothing, other than the wussy gravity pull of the sun,
that's you're leaving behind at good velocity.
Put any one of our spendy orbital do-everything supercomputers to work
on it, and then give us that fully 3D animated GOOGLE/NOVA production
quality run-through.
Brad Guth
In addition to all that's clearly ongoing as taboo/nondisclosure
(damage-control) about anything Venus, it seems there's still more news
that we can all use about our silly moon which hasn't quite been walked
upon.
NASA insiders expose Apollo Hoax / banished from Mailgate
http://mygate.mailgate.org/mynews/sci/sci.physics/1172368078.122937.190570%40m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com?order=smart&p=1/1963
If these folks accept the fundamental notions that our warm and fuzzy
NASA/Apollo can manage to have photographed our moon's physically dark
terrain along with mother Earth as coexisting within the same FOV, and
especially interesting is of their Kodak film's DR(dynamic range) as
having rather easily recorded portions of our dark oceans that are worth
an albedo of perhaps 0.1 (entirely similar enough as to the moon
itself), whereas the absolute impressive and somewhat blue/violet peak
spectrum as representing the vibrance of Venus should have been
unavoidably recorded as well. Especially well recorded via those
unfiltered optics that should otherwise have been nearly if not
overloaded with such a gauntlet of all those extra near-UV and UV-a
spectrums worth of photons as having reacted rather nicely with those
highly reflective clouds which offers us the visual albedo of 0.7~0.8 to
work with, whereas the actual peak solar spectrum energy and roughly
reflecting 75% of that 4 kw/m2 is what the naked and unfiltered Kodak
eye had to deal with.
Yet lo and behold, not even from orbit or from those supposed EVAs upon
the deck had there once been any sign of Venus, much less of any other
significant planets, as well as never once accommodating the
bluish-white vibrant speck of the Sirius star system, all of which were
well within the DR(dynamic range) of those unfiltered Kodak moments, yet
as though such significant items were never once to be seen (especially
odd as of those NASA/Apollo missions A11, A14 and A16).
As I've often stipulated before, that most any interactive 3D solar
system simulator puts Venus smack within good EVA obtained view of at
least those three missions (always within each command module's orbital
view), and I might as well further add, that we have those free
cellphone cameras with far better DR and of a wider spectrum capability
than what our newest MESSENGER mirror optics and spendy 14+db CCD could
apparently muster, as proof-positive via their flyby of Earth which only
provided a rather naked looking and otherwise somewhat pastel view of
Earth, w/o even so much as once accommodating our physically dark moon,
much less having shared upon any other significant planets or stars that
simply had to be there, yet all such other items were artificially made
as invisible/stealth as were all of those Muslim WMD.
Remember that starshine as well as earthshine upon the moon is
absolutely vibrant to the unfiltered Kodak eye that's far more sensitive
to having recorded such near-UV and UV-a spectrums than our human eye,
which can't hardly if even detect, not to mention those pesky gamma and
hard-X-ray spectrums of which that moon of our's is absolutely chuck
full of such TBI(total body irradiation) dosage that's simply much worse
off than any lethal hot zone within our Van Allen belts, and that's
still not even including upon all of the continual thermal trauma of
their having to survive those double IR/FIR spectrums that also
coexisted, as coming at their naked moonsuit from nearly all surrounding
directions in addition to whatever sol was directly contributing.
That physically dark and somewhat salty moon of ours is what's actually
a darn good IR/FIR reflector, and otherwise represents a rather piss
poor UV reflector because, such UV energy often gets absorbed and/or
interacts as creating secondary/recoil photons of the [UV black light
generated] near-blue spectrum. Of course the solar and cosmic influx is
what also represents lethal buttloads of having generated those
secondary/recoil photons of gamma and hard-X-rays, with zilch worth of
any attenuation from all possible directions, meaning that your wussy
moonsuit is surrounded by an absolute minimum lethal gauntlet of 3.14e6
m2 that's contributing the full secondary spectrum worth of whatever's
downright nasty if not lethal to your frail DNA, as well as continually
impacting each and every physically more than boiling role of all that
sensitive Kodak film.
>Wayne Throop:
>If you substitute venus for earth, it'd show up in the shot.
>Even if you move earth far away, it'd still show up, until it's so far
>away its light is falling on less than a single grain of the photograph;
>but as long as its idealized image is at least a single grain big, that
>grain would still be exposed.
Instead, we see a somewhat naked guano island like reflective
environment, for as far as the human and unfiltered Kodak eyes could
see, in places having a thin and naturally terrestrial clumping 50/50
dusting of portland cement and cornmeal that was entirely xenon lamp
spectrum illuminated (meaning w/o UV), whereas instead of their having
to deal with whatever the raw and nearly point source of the extremely
contrasty solar spectrum should have had to offer, along with such raw
influx having unavoidably shared absolute extra loads worth of the
near-UV and UV-a energy. Therefore, there's absolutely nothing of such
hocus-pocus artificial content within such bogus images, or otherwise of
mission associated content, that's worth a freaking hoot, much less a
scientific hoot.
Of course there's many other iffy if not downright naysay worthy
fly-by-rocket and unproven lander factors that simply do not add up to
what those pesky regular laws of physics and of replicated science and
of otherwise proven technology has to say.
Sorry that the likes of "Wayne Throop", "rick_so" and myself as your
pesky historical revisionist team, and otherwise truth telling
messengers from hell, must continually piss on your silly hocus-pocus
parade.
-
Brad Guth
Of a similar topic that's worthy of disclosure interest:
Velikovsky/Neocatastrophism Sources / banished from Mailgate
http://mygate.mailgate.org/mynews/rec/rec.org.mensa/Pbb1h.956$CT5.551%40trnddc02?order=smart&p=1/469
Prai Jei
> It's all basic physics and math, either of which I'm not terribly good
> at, but supposedly you folks are. So, why don't you tell us what a POOF
> space station at VL2 is in for?
Sounds a bit queer to me.
Brad Guth
news:ert137$55p$1...@aioe.org
> Brad Guth (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message
> <ce470ad313989dc2ed6...@mygate.mailgate.org>:
>
> > It's all basic physics and math, either of which I'm not terribly good
> > at, but supposedly you folks are. So, why don't you tell us what a POOF
> > space station at VL2 is in for?
>
> Sounds a bit queer to me.
So, you are playing it dumb and dumber. Is there a good physics or
whatever science reason for this?
The Ghost In The Machine
<ce470ad313989dc2ed6...@mygate.mailgate.org>:
> "The Ghost In The Machine" <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in
> message news:j0p8b4-...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net
>
>> Um...forgive me for asking such a stupid question, but since space is so
>> tenuous anyway how does one measure the temperature of a point therein?
>> A better measurement is insolation or irradiation, especially if
>> something is trapped in a bubble (e.g., a spacecraft with some air,
>> water, etc. in it).
>
> It's all basic physics and math, either of which I'm not terribly good
> at, but supposedly you folks are. So, why don't you tell us what a POOF
> space station at VL2 is in for?
>
> At VL2 you've got roughly upon the spectrum average of 2550~2600 w/m2,
> less whatever's the shade provided by Venus (which is a serious bunch
> of shade).
Somehow, I seriously doubt the VL2 point would get all that much shade.
But lessee.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_point
mentions the concept of a Hill Sphere, which has radius
r =~ R * cuberoot(M2/3M1)
where M1 is presumably 1.998435 * 10^30 kg, M2 4.8685 * 10^24 kg,
and R 1.08208926000 * 10^11 m. This gives r = 1.01 * 10^9 m.
At that distance the angular displacement of Venus, which has
diameter about 1.2 * 10^4 m, will be 1.2 * 10^-5 radian.
The angular displacement of Sol, which has diameter 1.392 * 10^9 m,
will be 1.286 * 10^-2 radian.
One should see Venus as a dot against the Sun, but that's about it.
Looks to me to be about a 0.0001% reduction in insolation -- which
is basically nothing.
>
>
>> Also, I'm not entirely sure but presumably the Venus L2 point is much
>> farther away than low Earth orbit, or the Moon, making for certain
>> logistics difficulties (and higher expense).
>
> Each and every 19 months, your the same face of Venus that comes to
> within roughly 100 fold the distance of our moon. Therefore, you could
> damn near toss a moon rock at Venus, and expect that rock to eventually
> hit that big sucker (though perhaps not until the next 19 month cycle).
Moon distance: 3.85 * 10^8 m
Venusian distance: maybe 4.2 * 10^10 m
>
> Whatever the logistics wouldn't be at most 10% of accomplishing Mars,
> perhaps not 1% of our actually accomplishing any viable base camp upon
> our own nasty and otherwise global warming moon, and to think that you
> wouldn't have to pack along hardly any spare amounts of shielding or
> energy for surviving within your composite rigid waverider airship, or
> otherwise for the 19 month stay within the relatively cool VL2 POOF, nor
> would your mission be having need of all that much spare energy for your
> return trip from VL2 to Earth because, your exit energy demand from VL2
> would be next to nothing, other than the wussy gravity pull of the sun,
> that's you're leaving behind at good velocity.
>
> Put any one of our spendy orbital do-everything supercomputers to work
> on it, and then give us that fully 3D animated GOOGLE/NOVA production
> quality run-through.
> -
> Brad Guth
>
>
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Useless C++ Programming Idea #10239993:
char * f(char *p) {char *q = malloc(strlen(p)); strcpy(q,p); return q; }
Brad Guth
> Somehow, I seriously doubt the VL2 point would get all that much shade.
> But lessee.
>
> One should see Venus as a dot against the Sun, but that's about it.
>
> Looks to me to be about a 0.0001% reduction in insolation -- which
> is basically nothing.
Venus L2 is only worth an isolation of "0.0001%"(??????), and here I
thought my math was pretty bad off.
Would you like to try that one more time?
I've got AutoCad. What have you got to work with?
Try to remember that VL2 (1.0143e6 km > 1.0142e6 km) isn't all that far
away from Venus. I'm thinking at least 85% isolation, and a bit more
isolation if we're taking that 100+ km elevated deck of thick clouds
into account.
Brad Guth
> So when you posted all those messages to a thread that you titled "Our
> moon is hot, Venus is not," you really meant the L2 point? When you
> said, "Venus has certainly been a little different and perhaps a whole
> lot more planetology rare on behalf of having accommodated intelligent
> other life than Earth," you meant space-based life? When you said,
> "You folks do realize that a fully manned rigid airship that's
> cruising efficiently just below those cool nighttime clouds could
> actually require some auxiliary cabin heat." -- that Zep would be
> cruising through clouds at the L2 point?
>
> Liar, lunatic, and retard.
Not exactly Sir "Liar, lunatic, and retard"
However, try to remember that VL2 (1.0143e6 km > 1.0142e6 km) isn't all
that far away from Venus. I'm thinking at least 85% isolation, and a
bit more isolation if we're taking that 100+ km elevated deck of thick
clouds into account.
However once again; If you're situated upon the toasty deck and you
have essentially unlimited renewable energy to burn (sort of speak), as
such where's all the big insurmountable problems with having more than
your fair share of mostly geothermal dry heat to deal with?
Is having too much energy a problem for your naysay mindset?
The Ghost In The Machine
<0fcc7fc4fbe1734ca91...@mygate.mailgate.org>:
> "The Ghost In The Machine" <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in
> message news:l1r9b4-...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net
>
>> Somehow, I seriously doubt the VL2 point would get all that much shade.
>> But lessee.
>>
>> One should see Venus as a dot against the Sun, but that's about it.
>>
>> Looks to me to be about a 0.0001% reduction in insolation -- which
>> is basically nothing.
>
> Venus L2 is only worth an isolation of "0.0001%"(??????), and here I
> thought my math was pretty bad off.
>
> Would you like to try that one more time?
Misplaced a decimal point in the Venusian radius. I now see total
occultation.
>
> I've got AutoCad. What have you got to work with?
>
> Try to remember that VL2 (1.0143e6 km > 1.0142e6 km) isn't all that far
> away from Venus. I'm thinking at least 85% isolation, and a bit more
> isolation if we're taking that 100+ km elevated deck of thick clouds
> into account.
> -
> Brad Guth
>
>
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Useless C++ Programming Idea #11823822:
signal(SIGKILL, catchkill);
Brad Guth
> Misplaced a decimal point in the Venusian radius. I now see total
> occultation.
Thanks much for that honest info.
I think we're both off by some +/- factor, as I'm not at all that
certain that VL2 = 100% occultation unless you're giving something
better than 150 km worth of added radius as due to that Venus cloud
layer, and otherwise only taking into account for the actual solar
surface.
VL2 is also a bit of a halo station-keeping orbit, and thereby the outer
portions of the flaming solar atmosphere should be giving VL2 at least
some degree of direct solar influx.
I guess that I'll have to redo my best swag and report back.
The Ghost In The Machine
<ec6a250dc99185a684c...@mygate.mailgate.org>:
Must I? Oh well...reprising my previous calculation with
more precision and a corrected decimal point:
If one again assumes
r =~ R * cuberoot(M2/(3*M1))
where M1 is presumably 1.998435 * 10^30 kg, M2 4.8685 * 10^24 kg,
and R 1.08208926000 * 10^11 m. This gives r = 1.0954 * 10^9 m.
At that distance the angular displacement of Venus, which has
diameter about 1.2102 * 10^7 m, will be about 1.1988 * 10^-2 radian.
The angular displacement of Sol, which has diameter 1.392 * 10^9 m,
will be 1.2864 * 10^-2 radian.
Therefore, 86.84% -- the square of the ratio of angular displacements.
If one includes the 150km cloud cover the percentage only ups to 91.20%.
(These are approximate because I'm confusing pie wedges with triangles
for simplicity in the calculation.)
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Useless C++ Programming Idea #12398234:
void f(char *p) {char *q = strdup(p); strcpy(p,q);}
Brad Guth
Your 86.84% is near enough to the absolute ideal worth of occultation.
Unfortunately it'll never remain that good.
I'm using a bit larger sun radius of 700,000 km, and of Venus w/clouds
at merely 5152 km, and the VL2 of 1,014,290 km
Allowing for some give or take from within the halo station-keeping
orbit at VL2:
Solar isolation or occultation of 85% while at VL2 offers 390 w/m2.
ISS average, as based upon orbiting Earth, ISS deals with 780 w/m2.
This means that Venus L2 is actually operating cold compared to whatever
ISS has to cycle between 1370 (+ Earth's reflected IR) and otherwise by
nighttime where it's nearly but not ever zero as it orbits behind mother
Earth that's having to radiate all of it's daytime solar influx (plus
something extra of whatever our moon and humanity has contributed
towards global warming).
I had to guess at the ISS figure of 780 w/m2 because, for some reason
there's no clear cut science on that sucker, as to what Earth
contributes to the ISS thermal energy budget. If anything, I'm guessing
way low on that amount if Earth reflects roughly 36%, as obviously all
of the solar influx has to leave town, or else Earth explodes.
Therefore, a POOF application at VL2 should fly.
Brad Guth
Your 86.84% is near enough to the absolute ideal worth of occultation or
solar isolation. Unfortunately, VL2 will never remain quite that good.
Oops, as per usual, I've made another silly typo mistake, as Venus
w/clouds is not 5162 km.
For my solar energy calculations of Venus L2, I'm using the wee bit
larger sun radius of 700,000 km, and of Venus w/clouds at merely 6152
km, and the VL2 of 1,014,290 km
Allowing for some give or take from having to coexist within the halo
station-keeping orbit at VL2:
Solar isolation or occultation of 85% while at VL2 offers 390 w/m2.
ISS average, as based upon orbiting Earth, ISS deals with 780 w/m2.
This means that Venus L2 is actually operating relatively cold compared
to whatever ISS has to cycle itself between 1370 (+ Earth's reflected
IR) and otherwise by nighttime where it's nearly zilch but not ever zero
as it orbits behind mother Earth that's having to radiate all of it's
daytime solar influx (plus something extra on behalf of whatever our
moon and humanity has contributed towards global warming).
Obviously at the distance of VL2 being 1,014,290 km, as such that VL2
location hasn't to worry all that much about the extent of secondary IR
that's coming off the nighttime season of Venus, at least not nearly as
to the extent of what Earth's ISS at merely 375,000 km has to deal with
(plus whatever gets contributed by our extremely large and nearby moon
that's actually capable of being a fairly good IR reflector and
otherwise offing a secondary/recoil bath worth of FIR or long wave IR
energy to boot).
I had to use my dyslexic swag at the ISS figure of 780 w/m2 because, for
some reason there's no clear cut science as to the orbital thermal
budget that's imposed upon that sucker, such as to what Earth
contributes to the ISS thermal energy budget. If anything, I'm
guestimating way low on that amount, especially if Earth reflects
roughly 36%, as obviously one way or another all of that solar influx
plus whatever's contributed by our moon has to leave town, or else Earth
explodes.
Therefore, a given POOF or perhaps many POOF applications at VL2 should
fly.
Brad Guth
By one analogy of our 1AU raw sunlight spectrum UV to IR being worth
1390 w/m2: However, if the earthshine/planetshine upon average IR
radiance is being worth 266 w/m2, adding half the other direct influx,
as having been shuttle instrument reported as 1354 w/m2 = 266 + 677 =
943 w/m2, as representing what ISS or most any other terrestrial
orbiting platform has to externally contend with.
If it weren't for the nighttime portion of each ISS orbit, they'd be
summarily roasted to death long ago, and it's actually worse off at the
moon's L1 because of the same 1390 w/m2 potential plus a moonshine
radiance worth of IR that I believe has to be worth nearly 695 w/m2,
thereby being at roughly 58,000 km from that IR emitting surface might
suggest 1390 + 20 = 1410 w/m2 (not to forget about a little something
extra from earthshine IR), along with hardly any amount of that time
spent at the moon's L1 as for being shaded by way of Earth or by the
moon itself (in other words, you'll have to provide an artificial shade,
or else).
As opposed to the solar radiance being 390 w/m2 at Venus L2, whereas the
VL2 halo station-keeping orbit is upon average receiving perhaps as
little as 41% of the ISS thermal trauma. Even if there's an extra 10
w/m2 of IR planetshine to deal with (of which there isn't), that's still
only 400 w/m2, and if that's not Bigelow POOF or most any other space
depot certified, then perhaps nothing is. The better could obviously be
said for establishing the Earth L2 (EL2) space depot, but clearly we're
not smart enough or otherwise having enough rad-hard DNA as for pulling
that one off, either.
Therefore, once again I have to agree with the intelligent mindset of
Dr. Van Allen, that the vast majority of space travels and of such
planetary or moon expeditions needs to be given as much robotics as
possible, that is unless we can affordably launch and sustain a
sufficient physical shield against the solar, moon and cosmic sorts of
lethal radiation trauma that tends to summarily nail our frail DNA (not
to mention having to defend ourselves from nearly all directions, as
from those pesky fast moving debris encounters of the potentially lethal
kind).
Brad Guth
Usenet topic: Manned Venus Flyby
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.space.history/browse_frm/thread/e3d11b833d7ba1c5/52ea67d6de4199a9?lnk=st&q=venus+l2&rnum=1&hl=en#52ea67d6de4199a9
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manned_Venus_Flyby
Venus L2 need not be a flyby, but rather a 19 month destination
stop-over. However, you're not going to get yourself very hot, much
less roasted to death. All that's needed is a good cache of TP plus
lots of beer and pizza that'll last between those mostly robotic
resupply missions. The VL2 radiation environment that's potentially
lethal to our frail DNA isn't nearly as bad off as being with ISS, as it
manages to avoid the ever expanding SAA contour, and there's certainly
going to be less (nearly 50% less) of the cosmic influx trauma to deal
with, not to mention VL2 not having that gamma and hard-X-ray producing
moon to deal with.
By one analogy of our 1AU raw sunlight spectrum of UV to IR being worth
1390 w/m2:
However, if the earthshine/planetshine upon average IR radiance is worth
266 w/m2, adding half the other direct influx, as having been shuttle
instrument reported as 1354 w/m2 = 266 + 677 = 943 w/m2, as
representing the external energy budget of what ISS or most any other
terrestrial orbiting platform has to externally contend with.
A correction for the following worth of moon's L1 IR = 2 w/m2 (not a big
factor, but it's there to behold at least 50% of the time)
If it weren't for the nighttime portion of each ISS orbit, as such
they'd be summarily roasted to death long ago, and it's actually worse
off at the moon's L1 because of the same 1390 w/m2 potential plus a
moonshine surface radiance of IR that I believe has to be worth nearly
695 w/m2, thereby being at roughly 58,000 km away from that IR emitting
surface might suggest 1390 + 2 = 1392 w/m2 (not to forget about a little
something extra that's contributed from earthshine IR). With hardly any
amount of that time spent at the moon's L1 as for being shaded by way of
Earth or by the moon itself (in other words, you'll have to provide an
artificial shade 97.6% of the time according to Clarke Station analogy,
or else get yourself prepaired to sweat like a slow roasted pig in a
can).
As opposed to the solar radiance being less than 390 w/m2 at Venus L2,
whereas the VL2 halo station-keeping orbit is upon average receiving
perhaps as little as 41% of the ISS thermal trauma. Even if there's an
extra 1 w/m2 of IR planetshine to deal with (of which there isn't),
that's still only 391 w/m2, and if that's not Bigelow POOF or most any
other space depot certified, then perhaps nothing is. The better
argument could obviously be said for establishing Earth L2 (EL2) space
depot, but clearly we're not smart enough or otherwise having enough
rad-hard DNA as for pulling that one off any better than we could
accomplish the moon's L1. I guess we don't actually have "The Right
Stuff".
Therefore, once again I may have to agree entirely with the intelligent
mindset of Dr. Van Allen, that the vast majority of open space travels
(external to our protective magnetosphere) and of such other planetary
or moon expeditions needs to be given as much robotics as possible, that
is since our going terribly fast isn't an option and unless we can
affordably launch and sustain a sufficient physical shield against the
solar, moon and cosmic sorts of lethal radiation trauma that tends to
summarily nail our frail DNA (not to mention having to defend ourselves
from nearly all directions, as from those pesky fast moving debris
encounters of the potentially lethal kind), as such robotics are just
about exactly what the doctor ordered, the same as having been insisted
by Dr. Van Allen.
brad...@gmail.com
safely and efficiently hosting a community of POOFs, and lo and behold
if all the Usenet lights didn't go out (again).
I guess such honest notions is what blew out yet another one of those
Old Testament installed Usenet fuses. Sorry about that.
-
Brad Guth
The Ghost In The Machine
<brad...@gmail.com>
wrote
on 17 Mar 2007 12:40:31 -0700
<1174160431.5...@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
Moving billions of metric tonnes to Venus's L2 point would be
quite a chore.
6.5 billion people * 100 kg/person = 650 million metric tonnes.
Granted, many are women and children (the women tend to be
a little smaller; the children are variable size), so this might
be an overestimate. However, support equipment would be
needed as well -- the air we breathe, recyclers to process the
CO2 back into O2 (with the C going somewhere as well), some
water and recyclers for *that*, sewage processors, and of course
various other things to keep us from going [censored] insane as
we sit behind Venus.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Linux. The choice of a GNU generation.
Windows. The choice of a bunch of people who like very weird behavior on
a regular basis, random crashes, and "extend, embrace, and extinguish".
brad...@gmail.com
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
> Moving billions of metric tonnes to Venus's L2 point would be
> quite a chore.
I had no idea that those Bigelow POOFs were in that class. I'm
impressed.
What's giving you the impression of having to relocate such an amount
of mass?
A good VL2 outpost or space depot/gateway as situated at Venus L2
might demand at most 100 tonnes to start off with, although a mere
POOF seed of 25 tonnes would likely be more than sufficient.
> 6.5 billion people * 100 kg/person = 650 million metric tonnes.
> Granted, many are women and children (the women tend to be
> a little smaller; the children are variable size), so this might
> be an overestimate. However, support equipment would be
> needed as well -- the air we breathe, recyclers to process the
> CO2 back into O2 (with the C going somewhere as well), some
> water and recyclers for *that*, sewage processors, and of course
> various other things to keep us from going [censored] insane as
> we sit behind Venus.
I'm terribly sorry, but what the freaking hell are you talking about?
You couldn't possibly be any further off-base if you tried extra hard.
Are you even posting this silly naysayism into the correct topic?
-
Brad Guth
The Ghost In The Machine
<1174199989.5...@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>:
> On Mar 17, 1:52 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
> <e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
>
>> Moving billions of metric tonnes to Venus's L2 point would be
>> quite a chore.
>
> I had no idea that those Bigelow POOFs were in that class. I'm
> impressed.
I have no idea what POOF is in this context; neither does Acronymfinder.
>
> What's giving you the impression of having to relocate such an amount
> of mass?
6.5 billion people, of course. Did you not want to save humanity? :-)
>
> A good VL2 outpost or space depot/gateway as situated at Venus L2
> might demand at most 100 tonnes to start off with, although a mere
> POOF seed of 25 tonnes would likely be more than sufficient.
>
>
>> 6.5 billion people * 100 kg/person = 650 million metric tonnes.
>> Granted, many are women and children (the women tend to be
>> a little smaller; the children are variable size), so this might
>> be an overestimate. However, support equipment would be
>> needed as well -- the air we breathe, recyclers to process the
>> CO2 back into O2 (with the C going somewhere as well), some
>> water and recyclers for *that*, sewage processors, and of course
>> various other things to keep us from going [censored] insane as
>> we sit behind Venus.
>
> I'm terribly sorry, but what the freaking hell are you talking about?
>
> You couldn't possibly be any further off-base if you tried extra hard.
>
> Are you even posting this silly naysayism into the correct topic?
What exactly is your objective here?
> -
> Brad Guth
>
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
"Woman? What woman?"
brad...@gmail.com
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
> I have no idea what POOF is in this context; neither does Acronymfinder.
A most basic search for 'Bigelow' or 'POOF' should have done the trick
as of years ago. Which planet other than Earth did you say you were
from?
> > What's giving you the impression of having to relocate such
> > an amount of mass?
> 6.5 billion people, of course. Did you not want to save humanity? :-)
Humanity has summarily screwed itself in more horrific ways than
either of us can count, plus we now have such a warm and fuzzy
resident LLPOF warlord(GW Bush) as our born-again pagan God to thank
for bringing us that much closer to WWIII. So, there may not be all
that many souls remaining to salvage. However, VL2 is just
representing the go-between, as a viable science platform or space
depot/gateway (potty rest-stop along the way to Venus, sort of speak).
> What exactly is your objective here?
Venus L2(VL2) is simply cool enough for hosting a nifty community of
those Bigelow POOFs, or whatever else you'd care to efficiently park
within that cool zone, and that's way better off than anything ISS/ESS
or of most anything other than the LSE-CM/ISS has to offer.
The objective of VL2 is clearly scientific, and it's also offering by
far the most cost effective and viable interplanetary worthy
alternative in town. Venus is the one and only known planet that has
more of whatever it takes for sustaining intelligent other life,
including on behalf of those few of us that are not totally snookered
and thus dumbfounded past the point of no return.
-
This following tidbit is what I've been sharing with a few others that
are hell bent upon Mars, so it's not as such intended as for putting
the likes of yourself down.
Unless Earth or Mars are derived from somewhere other (the same being
said of our moon and Venus), there's simply insufficient Mars salt to
behold, and yet the ongoing investments into further exploring Mars
isn't in any way worthy of the past or ongoing efforts, at least not
for other than robust and clearly rad-hard robotics that couldn't all
that likely survive upon our somewhat salty and otherwise naked moon
that's causing so much GW trauma to our badly failing environment.
Usenet astronomy, physics and all sorts of related science remains
deathly afraid of their own MIB enforced status quo. It's clearly all
about the money, and of their otherwise having to somehow stick
everything within their Old Testament cultism, or else. ESA's Venus
EXPRESS mission is clearly having to operate in taboo/nondisclosure
mode, all because of their findings that simply do not support the
100% greenhouse or bust policy, and otherwise most likely causing a
greater degree of boat rocking from whatever their PFS instrument
readings are having to say, as only adding further insult to the
ongoing injury as caused by way of all those status quo lies we've
been told about Venus.
As I've had to stipulate upon the obvious from the very get-go;
Mars is only a 100% butt kicking go if whatever ongoing cost isn't a
factor, if decades of R&D plus mission time isn't a factor, if your
having to bring damn near everything imaginable along for the spendy
and potentially lethal to/from ride isn't a factor, if your not having
rad-hard DNA isn't a factor any more so than your not having half a
village idiot's brain isn't a factor. Otherwise, much like our
physically dark and reactive nasty moon, Mars is best suited for those
robust little rad-hard robots, that can if need be take on loads of
cosmic energy plus whatever direct meteorite hits and somewhat keep
right on ticking after thawing out each subfrozen to death night,
whereas we humans of frail DNA would need to pack along a rather
substantial cache of our banked bone marrow, and lots of ductape.
Otherwise, for a fat-waverider of an airship cruising above the bulk
of those acidic Venusian clouds, whereas it's still unavoidably made
solar warm by day, but otherwise becomes seriously a wee bit extra
cold by night, offering a rather good thermal difference to behold of
190°C, is why Venus gets so technically doable.
http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Venus_Express/SEMANY808BE_0.html
Higher in the atmosphere, above 110 kilometres, the mysteries
continue. In the higher atmosphere of a planet as close to the Sun as
Venus, why do we measure temperatures as low as 30 °C on the day side,
and even -160 °C on the night side?
"At around 60 kilometres altitude is a very thick cloud layer - a 20
kilometre-deep blanket surrounding the planet."
By which also means there's more than a few teratonnes worth of good
old fresh h2o available to easily extract, not to mention your having
all of the local renewable energy that you could possibly need as for
making that easily extracted h2o into the likes of h2o2 if need be.
Somewhat near the bottom (46+ km) zone of that robust Venus cloud deck
is also a rather nifty layer of S8 solids. Once situated well enough
below the S8 layer (say operating below 35 km by day and perhaps 25 km
by night) is where it gets much calmer and unavoidably warmer as
headed towards that geothermally active deck, a Venusian surface
that's emitting 20 some odd watts/m2 (emitting at least 256 fold
greater thermal energy than Earth's surface). Of course, not each and
every m2 is every bit as hot or as cool as any other, and of surface
elevations do exist where you could have a nighttime surface
environment of something less than 600 K, whereas many other active
zones of lava, mud ponds or of mud flows, or otherwise of those pesky
geothermal forced gas vents are most certainly more than smoking hot
spots to keep your distance from.
There's nothing that's technically all that insurmountable about
Venus, and thank God there's locally such an available cache of mucho/
spare and otherwise 100% renewable energy to burn (sort of speak).
With said available energy at thy disposal (of which obviously need
not be imported), there's almost nothing that can't be accommodated,
including while on the fly of utilizing that composite rigid airship,
or that of processing CO2-->CO/O2. Of course, the usual mainstream
box of status quo thinking, of what's mostly faith-based naysayism,
gets you nowhere.
Much like the ESA Venus EXPRESS mission's robust PFS instrument, the
composite rigid airship alternative is 100% doable within existing and
thus known technology. Its size doesn't actually matter, whereas with
applications of micro electronics means that such a composite airship
could be made extremely small (within as little as one cubic meter, or
at most a few meters worth of LOA), or because of the available
buoyancy and 90.5% gravity means that such a nifty composite airship
could otherwise become 10 fold larger than anything accomplished upon
Earth, as well as hauling 70 fold as much payload per m3.
Obviously you and others of your kind don't likely grasp nor otherwise
comprehend the most basic terminology meaning of "composite", or that
of being "rigid", or the matter of fact being that such an airship
would be operating as though efficiently within nearly a 10% density
of water that's actually made better by way of that buoyancy medium
being compeised mostly of clean and dry co2, which by the way is an
extremely easy element to keep outside of this Venusian configured
airship.
-
Brad Guth
Scott Hedrick
Then he's learning well from you.
>>
>> Are you even posting this silly naysayism into the correct topic?
*You* don't- you keep posting to sci.space.history when you're clearly
dealing in fiction and psychological deviancy. If you want to whine about
others being off-topic, then you should stop posting in sci.space.history
and take your posts to a more appropriate forum. Duh.
brad...@gmail.com
> > In sci.physics, bradg...@gmail.com
> > <bradg...@gmail.com>
You're being that silly naysay jewboy again, arnt you. Of course, the
others of you kind know exactly what you're doing, and they approve.
-
Brad Guth
brad...@gmail.com
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
> What exactly is your objective here?
Instead of Mars or of stuff further away, we should have been doing
VL2, because it's within the scope and/or spec of what's perfectly
doable. Obviously accomplishing Venus itself would soon enough become
the next logical step.
Placing a POOF of ISS/ESS collective of VL2 habitats isn't all that
tough, and of getting ourselves to/from that relatively cool location
upon each of the 19 month orbits of Venus as being nearly worthy of a
NEO that's merely 100 fold further away than our moon, is simply
another aspect of VL2 that's doable.
According to others that typically via 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge claim
to know pretty much all there is to know, Earth's thin atmosphere is
hosting between 50e12 and 200e12 tonnes of h2o, thereby imagine what
all of that robust atmosphere of Venus must be accommodating within
those thick clouds. The more GW we get ourselves into, the more h2o
is forced to being held within our extensively soot and chemical
polluted atmosphere, that's obviously getting more Venus like acidic
and otherwise global dimming and thereby unavoidably extra energy
holding by the day, especially compounded by way of the ongoing thaw
from the last ice age this planet along with its recent moon that's
causing so much planetology trauma will ever see.
This is an interesting perspective about the Venusian atmosphere
that's forced into being so gosh darn toasty and all, though mostly as
such having been contributed by and otherwise thermally forced from
the active geothermal bottom up, along with solar influx adding
further insult to injury, just as a somewhat newish planetology
environment should be, and clearly representing the exact opposite of
Mars, with Earth literally existing somewhere in between the new and
the old.
S8/Sulfur offers a density of 2 g/cm3 (roughly twice the density of
water), and S8 becomes a melted or vapor element at just above 386 K
(235°F/113°C), which in fact does exist within that Venusian
atmosphere.
According to what John Ackerman and a few others are having to say, in
addition to the relatively friendly environment of CO2 (friendly
because it's so bone dry), the Venusian lower atmospheric zone that's
situated well enough below them wet clouds is otherwise hosting a good
amount of dry S8/Sulfur, that's also representing a relatively
harmless substance as long as its getting provided without hardly any
h2o, though obviously it's of a geothermally contributed sulfur that's
sustained in a toasty vapor form while coexisting below the 45 km
mark, perhaps below as little as 40 km by night. Above 46 km by day
it's getting cool enough for the vapors of sulfur to reformulate back
into crystals of the near solid form of S8/Sulfur, thereby forming a
thin layer or boundary of S8 that's creating a rather nifty thermal
dynamic or transition barrier, as well as for having been providing an
atmospheric tent or membrane of sorts, allowing those horrifically
strong winds to circulate above and considerably less windy conditions
to coexist below.
Of whatever geothermally forced S8 as having brought h2o into the
atmosphere, whereas this is going to release that h2o above the
crystallizing point of where S8 is no longer in vapor form, which of
course represents the vast bulk of those nifty and extremely thick and
obviously acidic clouds, that should be capable of their hosting at
least 100e12 tonnes if not potentially several hundred teratonnes of
h2o. Of whatever icy meteor arrivals as having contributed their h2o,
are most likely going to contribute as to what's above the S8 layer,
mostly because of that icy influx of contributed h2o density being of
1 g/cm3 (half the density of S8).
That's like having a surrounding ocean of S8 that's roughly twice the
density of water, suspended at 46+km above your pounding head, along
with multiple teratonnes of that acidic h2o ocean kept further above,
representing somewhat of a humanly nasty surface consideration because
of your having a serious lack of cranial pressure equalisation at your
wussy biological disposal, as well as such lacking a good CO2-->CO/O2
biological process. With time and/or having a few artificial pressure
equalisation passages created, your head and attached body might
eventually get used to the surface pressure environment, that is as
long as you also had a nifty CO2-->CO/O2 technology that was providing
1% o2 and otherwise having the likes of 99% H2 or perhaps local He to
work with, whereas otherwise you'd stay within your submarine like
composite rigid airship, eating pizza and drinking ice cold beer.
Just because Venus seems hotter than hell, this in of itself doesn't
exclude intelligent ETs or of evolved locals from having been doing
their thing, just like we could have been doing our thing if we were
only half smart enough. I believe it's technically easier to deal
with an environment that's chuck full of local renewable energy
resources, then having to deal with the money and DNA sink-hole likes
of a mostly frozen Mars that offers so damn little of just about
everything.
Too bad that we have so many folks here in Usenet naysay land, that in
spite of the mounting evidence and of my subjective interpretations as
to what's existing/coexisting on the deck that looks so intelligent/
artificial, are instead so intellectually faith-based and even openly
biologically bigoted, to the point of no return of their being
unworthy of Earth.
-
Brad Guth
Art Deco
>On Mar 18, 10:49 am, The Ghost In The Machine
><e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
>
>> What exactly is your objective here?
>
>19 month
>100 fold
>2nd or 3rd hand
>50e12
>200e12 tonnes
>2 g/cm3
>386 K
>(235蚌/113蚓)
>45 km
>40 km
>46 km
>100e12 tonnes
>1 g/cm3
>46+km
>1%
Huh?
>Too bad that we have so many folks here in Usenet naysay land, that in
>spite of the mounting evidence and of my subjective interpretations as
>to what's existing/coexisting on the deck that looks so intelligent/
>artificial, are instead so intellectually faith-based and even openly
>biologically bigoted, to the point of no return of their being
>unworthy of Earth.
Your projector is still on, Brad.
--
Supreme Leader of the Brainwashed Followers of Art Deco
"To err is human, to cover it up is Weasel" -- Dogbert
Cardinal Snarky of the Fannish Inquisition
and didst finally confess, after taking Muche Tea:
> <brad...@gmail.com> wrote:
You mean you were able to make sense of his gabble?
--
________________________________________________________________________
Hail Eris! Usenet Ruiner #5
Demon Prince of Absurdity; COOSN-029-06-71069
"Lola Stonewall Riot" is not part of my email addy.
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle
Trainer of PorchMonkey4Life
http://www.screedbomb.info/porchie/
AUK FAQ: http://www.caballista.org/auk/faq.html
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, February 2007
Message-ID: <Xns98EE28E1C58ABw...@204.153.245.131>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, January 2007 MID:
<Xns98D232E44C01pi...@204.153.244.170>
"Hey Theophan, I need your help again. Will you please come assist me
again? aggreen is after me again. He has been after me for a year and
counting now. I want you to destroy his character for me. I can't do
it." -- Olympiada: Not too proud to beg for help when it comes to
character assassination, and Mistress of the Bleeding Obvious.
MID: <45E22F00...@yahoo.com>
"I think we have taken care of the net.KKKopping in alt.gothic. Could
all the kookologists trim alt.gothic from their headers and leave us
alone now? It has gone on long enough. I can take care of myself in there
from here on out. Thanks. I know how to fight off trolls now. Thank you
for the education." -- Olympiada thinks she's had an education, and that
means it's time for those nice kookologists to go away and leave her
sandbox alone now, in MID: <45e330a8$0$16404$8826...@free.teranews.com>
"Who booby-traps a dead end? That's just not right." -- Cordelia
>> Are you the Peter J Ross that I've heard so much about?
>
> Probably. I'm the one who doesn't resort to forgery after losing an
> argument.
"You're the one with the extensive brain damage... okay I see. You're
gonna be easily to own them." -- PorchMonkey4Life: Not aware of too many
things. MID: <bf7xh.834$hH2.64@trnddc02>
At last! See Joxer The Mity Monkey on camera! Watch him freak out!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_WuaENGqz0
"And no, I did not have sex with my son. But if I did I certainly
wouldn't tell you. Something so beautiful and precious should be kept
private." -- Kathy L. Mosesian, or possibly not really her, confesses
she may be a liar and committer of incest with her own son, in MID:
<cfcd3f4660694e3a...@msgid.frell.theremailer.net>
The reporter asked Colin Powell (or George Bush), "What proof do you
have that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction?"
He replied, "We kept the receipts." -- Bill Hicks
Looney Maroon nominee for August 2006 Johnny D Wentzky foamed:
"You never asked someone who goes into areas of the internet that are
only for adults who has an underage id somehow or another if they are a
cop posing as an underage person online?
I guess lots of people just don't watch dateline or read stories much.
Why don;t you go to pervertedjustice,com and see what they do. They are
awash in their self-proclaimed glory after they lied to membners of the
public.
They are awash in their self-proclaimed glory after they posed as an
underage person and agreed to do all sorts of sex acts wioth adult
males, and they are adults posing as teenager themselves. They make
themsleves into liars by falsely impersonating underage persons and by
not fuilfilling the words they tell the victims online in their chats.
Why don't you read it where they tell these victims of their deceit
about how they have been with grown men and such? Why don't you read it
where they say, "That would be cool." after someone makes an advance
towards an adult who is posing as a teenager? And, where they agree to
meet the person, etc.
Lost control, didn't you?
Is that why you feel as if you need to lie so much now? I see where lots
of these false impersonation games are not sticking. They feel as if
they can lie and then order the victims to get counseling in the
gayblade, governmental, pro-choice tax leech counseling centers. They
are doing nothing more than usury and fraud in many cases." -- Wentzky
almost comes out of the closet as a pedo/ephebophile in MID:
<H%%Eg.28916$Uq1....@bignews6.bellsouth.net>
To Whom It May Concern: Michael J. Cranston attorney kook is a dogfucker
brad...@gmail.com
-
Brad Guth
Art Deco
>Is incest still running itself amok within Art Deco's family tree?
Hi, Brad! Unfortunately for you, your kooklurve for me will always
remain unrequited.
Flying Fuck
> <brad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Is incest still running itself amok within Art Deco's family tree?
>
> Hi, Brad! Unfortunately for you, your kooklurve for me will always
> remain unrequited.
>
he could always dig up your corpse and skullfuck you in a few years.
--
         .-------.
       .'.-'''''-.'._
      //`         `\\\
     ;;             ;;'.__.===============,
     ||      . <-   ||  __                 )
     ;:    your     ;;.'  '==============='
      \\   penus   ///
       ':...___...:'~
         `'-----'`
"The fact that you're being increasing annoying..." - QuackfArt
brad...@gmail.com
> Is incest still running itself amok within Art Deco's family tree?
> -
As I said. And lo and behold, these MI/NSA Usenet clowns still exist
as Old Testament thumpers.
Too bad that Venus L2 is actually so gosh darn cool, and that Venus
itself isn't nearly as insurmountable as we've been continually lied
to about. Of course, since this topic has nothing to do with having
created such collateral damage and carnage of the innocent (mostly
Muslims), so it's not hardly worth the supportive Jewish effort that
Art Deco and his kind gives to our resident LLPOF warlord(GW Bush).
-
Brad Guth
Art Deco
brad...@gmail.com
tongue?)
VL2 is cool, and it's certainly Bigelow POOF doable.
Where the heck are all of those smart Third Reich minions when we need
them?
-
Brad Guth
The Ghost In The Machine
<1174848364.5...@p15g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>:
Talk to Bigelow. He's the one putting up the money for the inflatable craft.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Linux. An OS which actually, unlike certain other offerings, works.
brad...@gmail.com
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
> Talk to Bigelow. He's the one putting up the money for the inflatable craft.
>
> --
> #191, ewi...@earthlink.net
> Linux. An OS which actually, unlike certain other offerings, works.
On both counts, I agree.
-
Brad Guth
Mark McIntyre
The Machine <ew...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
>In sci.physics, brad...@gmail.com
><brad...@gmail.com>
> wrote
(the usual bollocks)
Ghost,
--
_____________________
/| /| | |
||__|| | Please do not |
/ O O\__ | feed the |
/ \ | Trolls |
/ \ \|_____________________|
/ _ \ \ ||
/ |\____\ \ ||
/ | | | |\____/ ||
/ \|_|_|/ | _||
/ / \ |____| ||
/ | | | --|
| | | |____ --|
* _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
*-- _--\ _ \ | ||
/ _ \\ | / `
* / \_ /- | | |
* ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________
rob....@gmail.com
> On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 12:27:33 -0700, in uk.sci.astronomy , The Ghost In
>
> >In sci.physics, bradg...@gmail.com
> ><bradg...@gmail.com>
>
> (the usual bollocks)
>
> Ghost,
> --
>
> _____________________
> /| /| | |
> ||__|| | Please do not |
> / O O\__ | feed the |
> / \ | Trolls |
> / \ \|_____________________|
> / _ \ \ ||
> / |\____\ \ ||
> / | | | |\____/ ||
> / \|_|_|/ | _||
> / / \ |____| ||
> / | | | --|
> | | | |____ --|
> * _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
> *-- _--\ _ \ | ||
> / _ \\ | / `
> * / \_ /- | | |
> * ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________
/| /| | |
||__|| | Please ignore the |
/ O O\__ | retards who cry: |
/ \ |dont feed teh Trolls!|
The Ghost In The Machine
<rob....@gmail.com>
wrote
on 25 Mar 2007 19:29:26 -0700
<1174876166.5...@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
[snippage]
Idiot.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Linux makes one use one's mind.
Windows just messes with one's head.
Jade hasn't said anything about this nym yet, except that she said that she said something about it a long tyme ago...
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> In sci.physics, rob....@gmail.com
> <rob....@gmail.com>
> wrote
> on 25 Mar 2007 19:29:26 -0700
> <1174876166.5...@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
>
> [snippage]
>
> Idiot.
>
_____________________
/| /| | |
||__|| | POOPY PNATS!!!!!! |
/ - -\__ | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
/ \ | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
/ \ \|_____________________|
/ _ \ \ ||
/ |\____\ \ ||
/ | | | |\____/ ||
/ \|_|_|/ | _||
/ / \ |____| ||
/ | | TORLL | --|
| | | |____ --|
* _ | |_|_|_| U. | \-/
*-- _--\ _ \ | ||
/ _ \\ | / `
* / \_ /- | | |
* ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________
--
jade hasn't said anything about my new sig, either, except that she said
that she did.
Rob "Mop Jockey" "Roberta" Wolfe
OFISHIAL Benevolent Dictator of AUK
HAotM, ConT, dw:OPP, ASPCA , HAND, FOAD
http://netkooks.org/ofishialbenevolentdictator/picture.jpg
<insert more imaginary titles here later>
brad...@gmail.com
with another fleet of those cute little Jewish clown cars again.
Apparently VL2 is way too cool because, all the usual spermware/
fuckware of all that's Old Testament Usenet or bust is in full swing.
Nice of GOOGLE to be providing such nifty cloak and dagger capability
to all of those MI/NSA spooks and moles.
-
Brad Guth
Art Deco
brad...@gmail.com
Obviously, others of this anti-think-tank, of a clown's Usenet from
their Old Testament thumping hell, are going to have an absolute fit
about anything VL2, or much less about our moon's L1.
As you can see and/or smell the intellectual flatulence of all that's
NASA/Apollo mainstream status quo. Of course, this leaves the doors
wide open for the likes of Russia, China or even India.
-
Brad Guth
brad...@gmail.com
Reich, and mostly Jewish to boot.
What's alt.snuh?
-
Brad Guth
Art Deco
>Nice folks these born-again via incest cloned borgs of the Third
>Reich, and mostly Jewish to boot.
>
>What's alt.snuh?
Heh.
Art Deco
>On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 12:15:22 -0600, Art Deco wrote:
>
>> <brad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Nice folks these born-again via incest cloned borgs of the Third
>>>Reich, and mostly Jewish to boot.
>>>
>>>What's alt.snuh?
>>
>> Heh.
>
>IAWTH.
There is only one Brad Guth.
brad...@gmail.com
And the cesspool of all that's MI/NSA~NASA is still flowing nicely up
hill, just as though it had some special Jewish powers within all of
its infomercial spewed crapolla.
-
Brad Guth
brad...@gmail.com
not the least bit too hot to touch with the Ovglove. That is as long
as you don't run yourself out of ice cold beer and pizza, in that I
really don't see all that much of a problem.
As long as you've got way more spare/renewable energy at your disposal
than you could possibly know what to do with, and having that nifty
thermal suit made by Ovglove, where's the big-ass insurmountable
problem with taking that hot-foot of a toasty stroll on Venus?
CO2-->CO/O2 is not hardly a technical problem, hasn't been for a good
decade or more.
Pure H2O as easily extracted from those somewhat cool nighttime acidic
clouds (above the S8 layer) is simply another mission positive win-
win.
The 65 kg/m3 worth of buoyancy as working along with the 90.5% gravity
is offering a couple of other nifty factors that'll work rather well
for your composite rigid airship (just like on behalf of those
Venusian composite rigid airships).
If you're any damn good at PhotoShop, goto:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
or best you start with your very own look-see at the following
official image site:
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/hires/mgn_c115s095_1.gif
The 36 look per pixel of that primary GIF image format starts getting
downright interesting at being 3X resampled, and then giving it all
the best PhotoShop or whatever else you can muster, although the
original GIF 1:1 image was actually good enough for my PhotoShop
configured brain to deductively interpret upon what's most likely
artificial as opposed to what's perfectly natural. 36 looks per pixel
is offering a lot of truthworthy image data to start with, so it's a
good one to stick with rather than dealing with their individual 75
meter/pixel versions as having combined but four looks per pixel.
Don't try to process the entire image unless you've got one heck of a
nifty PC or MAC. Try clipping out only the small portion of the total
image that's roughly a third up from the bottom and just to the right
of center, as we're talking about utilizing less than 10% or perhaps
even as little as 5% of that primary GIF image, and to process upon
just that much shouldn't traumatise your memory or performance PC or
MAC.
I'll review each of your results, that by rights should become a whole
lot better than mine. Obviously anyone can over/under force those
PhotoShop refinements, well past the point of no return, so don't do
that. My extremely old version of PhotoShop can't hardly accomplish
much better than 8X resampling without losing ground, and besides, we
don't actually require much better than 6X for most others to see most
clearly what I'd first interpreted from the original 1:1 format.
Thanks once again to 'tomcat' for also having posted this updated page
of Venus images.
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/thumbnail_pages/venus_thumbnails.html
It's image No.17 from the top left being the one that so happens to
include the robust, sizable and somewhat complex community of 'GUTH
Venus'.
"Lava channels, Lo Shen Valles, Venus from Magellan Cycle 1"
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/html/object_page/mgn_c115s095_1.html
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/hires/mgn_c115s095_1.gif
-
Brad Guth
Phineas T Puddleduck
brad...@gmail.com wrote:
> Venus L2 is in fact cool to the naked touch
Only on bizarro-world.
--
Painius admits he cannot answer a single question to NB:
"Yes, you're right of course, NB. And they get very useless very quickly.
I shall do my best to ignore them, as you wish."
brad...@gmail.com
wrote:
> In article <1175732358.358200.280...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>
> bradg...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Venus L2 is in fact cool to the naked touch
>
> Only on bizarro-world.
I got less than 400 w/m2, and your VL2 solar isolation
is ?????????????
-
Brad Guth
Phineas T Puddleduck
brad...@gmail.com wrote:
> I got less
clue then a braindead lemming?
Brad Guth
news:phineaspuddleduck-0...@news.octanews.com
> In article <1175732923.3...@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> brad...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I got less
>
> clue then a braindead lemming?
Are you and others of your silly kind having another bad jewboy day?
As otherwise VL2 is in fact cool, and Venus itself isn't worse off than
what a good Ovglove body-suit could safely manage.
-
Brad Guth
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Phineas T Puddleduck
<fe25064114d13dba414...@mygate.mailgate.org>,
"Brad Guth" <brad...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Are you and others
tired of reading your screed? Why yes.
brad...@gmail.com
morons. Sorry about that.
Perhaps Venus is simply too freaking hot to touch, even with the
Ovglove.
Within an average of having been losing 20.5 w/m2 (roughly 1e16 watts
continuously available at the core), represents that some areas of the
Venus surface are perhaps worth less than a w/m2, with other areas
radiating at perhaps 200 w/m2, and of course more than a few active
mud, lava and gas vents contributing their energy at many thousands of
watts per square meter.
So, the Ovglove applications are at best spotty, and along with the IR
CCD or most likely using of some other thermally tolerant instrument
of such technology at hand, there's no good reason to think of our
having to walk on those extra toasty locations where the heat of
what's geothermally forced is excessively pushing the limits of those
EVA Ovglove suits as intended and thus configured for keeping their
folks cool.
Technically it is much tougher to get rid of surplus heat than it is
for insulating yourself from the cold. However, the double IR/FIR
environment of our daytime moon that's physically dark and nasty in
more ways than passive heat, such as for benefiting those sorts of
robust robotic instruments that'll have to survive the solar IR plus
all of the locally reflected IR and of the secondary/recoil worth of
the mid and far infrared(FIR), should more than apply to this
application of such robotics and perhaps a few brave souls safely
accomplishing Venus. In fact the moon's secondary/recoil worth of
what's near, mid and far infrared combined is likely worth every bit
as much as the solar influx, though fortunately our Venus surface by
season of nighttime is without solar IR to begin with, and even by day
there's not all that much solar IR that ever reaches that S8 and
acidic h2o cloud protected surface.
There's obviously more to behold and appreciate about all the NIR, MIF
and FIR spectrums of our universe than there is from our biologically
limited if not evolution deprived visual spectrum (there are bugs,
more than a few other significant species including birds that
actually see much better than us humans)
http://www.ipac.caltech.edu/Outreach/Edu/Regions/irregions.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared
Our seeing by night while exploring or otherwise doing our business of
depositing or extracting whatever from Venus is not the least bit of a
compromise, or is it outside of most any thermal environment spec.
Cruising Venus by way of a suitable composite rigid airship is just
downright nifty, and rather energy efficient to boot.
-
Brad Guth
Phineas T Puddleduck
brad...@gmail.com wrote:
> OOPS! Now I've gone
and posted more screed?
brad...@gmail.com
wrote:
> In article <1175809261.327272.56...@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
You've hit the magic #69
I'm not exactly sure; is that good or bad?
-
Brad Guth
Art Deco
>OOPS! Now I've gone and insulted the Ovgolve cult of mindless
>morons. Sorry about that.
>
>Perhaps Venus is simply too freaking hot to touch, even with the
>Ovglove.
>
>Within an average of having been losing 20.5 w/m2 (roughly 1e16 watts
>continuously available at the core), represents that some areas of the
>Venus surface are perhaps worth less than a w/m2, with other areas
>radiating at perhaps 200 w/m2, and of course more than a few active
>mud, lava and gas vents contributing their energy at many thousands of
>watts per square meter.
>
>So, the Ovglove applications are at best spotty, and along with the IR
>CCD or most likely using of some other thermally tolerant instrument
>of such technology at hand, there's no good reason to think of our
>having to walk on those extra toasty locations where the heat of
>what's geothermally forced is excessively pushing the limits of those
>EVA Ovglove suits as intended and thus configured for keeping their
>folks cool.
Too bad you don't understand heat transfer, Brad.
--
Supreme Leader of the Brainwashed Followers of Art Deco
"Still suffering from reading comprehension problems, Deco?
The section is clearly attributed to Art Deco, not to you, Deco."
-- Dr. David Tholen
"Who is "David Tholen", Daedalus? Still suffering from
attribution problems?"
-- Dr. David Tholen
Art Deco
brad...@gmail.com
GOT REMORSE ?
GOT ANYTHING TO SHARE AND SHARE ALIKE ?
GOT ANOTHER LOAD OF CRAPOLLA IN YOUR PANTS ?
Is VL2 simply too cool for even a nifty collective of POOFs?
Where's all the supposed "right stuff"?
-
Brad Guth
Art Deco
The Ghost In The Machine
<er...@caballista.org>
wrote
on Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:24:04 -0600
<070420071324043099%er...@caballista.org>:
> <brad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>OOPS! Now I've gone and insulted the Ovgolve cult of mindless
>>morons. Sorry about that.
>>
>>Perhaps Venus is simply too freaking hot to touch, even with the
>>Ovglove.
>>
>>Within an average of having been losing 20.5 w/m2 (roughly 1e16 watts
>>continuously available at the core), represents that some areas of the
>>Venus surface are perhaps worth less than a w/m2, with other areas
>>radiating at perhaps 200 w/m2, and of course more than a few active
>>mud, lava and gas vents contributing their energy at many thousands of
>>watts per square meter.
>>
>>So, the Ovglove applications are at best spotty, and along with the IR
>>CCD or most likely using of some other thermally tolerant instrument
>>of such technology at hand, there's no good reason to think of our
>>having to walk on those extra toasty locations where the heat of
>>what's geothermally forced is excessively pushing the limits of those
>>EVA Ovglove suits as intended and thus configured for keeping their
>>folks cool.
>
> Too bad you don't understand heat transfer, Brad.
>
There is also the little problem of how exactly one would wear this suit
while walking on a surface and surrounded by atmosphere both of which
are more than hot enough to melt zinc.
As for Venusian techtonics and volcanic activity -- as far as I can
tell, there aren't any.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Useless C++ Programming Idea #12995733:
bool f(bool g, bool h) { if(g) h = true; else h = false; return h;}
Art Deco
Only a small problem.
>
>As for Venusian techtonics and volcanic activity -- as far as I can
>tell, there aren't any.
In GuthWorld, there's plenty.
The Ghost In The Machine
<070420071506372296%er...@caballista.org>:
Well, the Venera-9 probe did last maybe an hour, and the communications
failure was not due to heat, but because the orbiter went out of range.
No word on whether the orbiter tried to reacquire when it came back
around (if it could, though Venus rotates far more slowly than terra
firma).
The Soviets got some nice pictures, though unfortunately the probe
got stuck at a weird angle for some reason. :-) Venera 10, 13, and 14
also returned some photos; Vega-1 and 2 flew by Venus and dropped probes
but were primarily interested in Halley's comet.
http://www.mentallandscape.com/C_CatalogVenus.htm
So one wonders -- but it would be pretty bad.
>>
>>As for Venusian techtonics and volcanic activity -- as far as I can
>>tell, there aren't any.
>
> In GuthWorld, there's plenty.
>
FWIW, there were plenty of volcanoes at one point, but other structures
such as subduction zones -- which presumably are easily seen using
altimeter measurements -- are absent.
http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/planet_volcano/venus/intro.html
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Murphy was an optimist.
brad...@gmail.com
> wrote
> on Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:06:37 -0600
>
>
>
>
>
> > The Ghost In The Machine <e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
>
> >>In sci.physics, Art Deco
> >> wrote
> >>on Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:24:04 -0600
>
> - Show quoted text -
So, besides being a little dumbfounded, what's the big-ass
insurmountable problem?
If Venus were at times any closer, as such it would become listed as
that of an NEO.
As I'd said at least a million times before; efficiently cruising in
that composite rigid airship, along with all of that spare pizza and
ice cold beer, doesn't sound all that nasty.
With such spare and 100% renewable energy at your disposal, what's all
that insurmountable?
It looks as though the existing township of GUTH Venus is ready to
utilize as is.
Besides, isn't VL2 perfectly POOF doable as is?
-
Brad Guth
brad...@gmail.com
> on Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:24:04 -0600
>
> - Show quoted text -
The only problem is the borg naysayism that's within your silly head.
Don't be such an old fart of a silly stick in the mud. Think outside
the box.
Venus is NOT too hot to touch, at least not with the Ovglove.
BTW; why are you intentionally posting to those hocus-pocus (aka
phony baloney and/or Third Reich) "alt.fan.art-bell,alt.usenet.kooks"
groups?
-
Brad Guth
Art Deco
Are you unable to read, Brad? Do you understand how hot the melting
point of zinc is?
>
>As I'd said at least a million times before; efficiently cruising in
>that composite rigid airship, along with all of that spare pizza and
>ice cold beer, doesn't sound all that nasty.
And its been laughed at that many times.
>
>With such spare and 100% renewable energy at your disposal, what's all
>that insurmountable?
Toxic atmosphere at kiln-level temperatures. How do you remove that
heat, Brad, assuming the machinery doesn't corrode into a metallic
mess?
>
>It looks as though the existing township of GUTH Venus is ready to
>utilize as is.
Photoshop isn't your friend, Brad.
>
>Besides, isn't VL2 perfectly POOF doable as is?
You first, Brad. Have a good trip.
The Ghost In The Machine
<brad...@gmail.com>
wrote
on 7 Apr 2007 22:44:07 -0700
<1176011047....@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
Touching Venus is the least of one's worries. The Ovglove
is an oven mitt; to properly characterize the issue one
would have to preheat the oven at the "Super Dooper Hot
Broil" setting (about 860 F), step inside the oven (which,
since this is a thought experiment, would be a walk-in
affair), close the door, and wait for an hour or so.
One is allowed to wear an Ovglove body suit, if one wishes.
To be fair, the atmosphere would have to be extremely dry
within the oven, so one is allowed to sweat (and there are
materials that "breathe", allowing water out; presumably
the Ovglove can be suitably modified); of course, there is
the little issue of replenishing that sweat. I'd frankly
doubt if the "wind chill" factor would be enough to
dissipate sufficient heat to keep the Ovglove wearer alive.
And then there's the little issue of breathing.
Where would the oxygen come from?
The good news: one might be able to read a book without too
much trouble; the lack of O2 within the Venusian atmosphere
should preclude its flashing into flame. Also, surface
gravity shouldn't be too much above 9.805 N/kg.
(Assuming one's brain isn't fried, of course.)
>
> BTW; why are you intentionally posting to those hocus-pocus (aka
> phony baloney and/or Third Reich) "alt.fan.art-bell,alt.usenet.kooks"
> groups?
Probably because of inattentiveness on my part. I did not set those
explicitly.
> -
> Brad Guth
>
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Windows Vista. Because a BSOD is just so 20th century; why not
try our new color changing variant?
brad...@gmail.com
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
> In sci.physics, bradg...@gmail.com
> > Venus is NOT too hot to touch, at least not with the Ovglove.
>
> Touching Venus is the least of one's worries. The Ovglove
> is an oven mitt; to properly characterize the issue one
> would have to preheat the oven at the "Super Dooper Hot
> Broil" setting (about 860 F), step inside the oven (which,
> since this is a thought experiment, would be a walk-in
> affair), close the door, and wait for an hour or so.
>
> One is allowed to wear an Ovglove body suit, if one wishes.
>
> To be fair, the atmosphere would have to be extremely dry
> within the oven, so one is allowed to sweat (and there are
> materials that "breathe", allowing water out; presumably
> the Ovglove can be suitably modified); of course, there is
> the little issue of replenishing that sweat. I'd frankly
> doubt if the "wind chill" factor would be enough to
> dissipate sufficient heat to keep the Ovglove wearer alive.
>
> And then there's the little issue of breathing.
> Where would the oxygen come from?
>
> The good news: one might be able to read a book without too
> much trouble; the lack of O2 within the Venusian atmosphere
> should preclude its flashing into flame. Also, surface
> gravity shouldn't be too much above 9.805 N/kg.
>
> (Assuming one's brain isn't fried, of course.)
>
replies doesn't indicate this following contribution, so I'll try it
once again.
Obviously I Ovglove jest, and obviously the co2-->co/o2 (same process
as working on behalf of the Mars mission fiasco) is where the local
needs of whatever O2 is to be found, except in easily available bulk.
The last time I'd checked, Venus had a touch more than its fair share
of co2 (kept nicely bone dry and process preheated to boot), and
otherwise having way more than its fair share of locally renewable
energy to burn (sort of speak), so that you don't have to bother
packing along a nuclear reactor, and at that local pressure your body
doesn't even require all that much O2 (just lots of ice cold beer).
Before doing Venus in whatever cozy Ovglove protected person, even
though a composite rigid airship/shuttle or whatever 'tomcat' fat-
waverider should more than do the trick, whereas Venus L2 is offering
us the very next best available ticket to ride, and without such
involving any Ovgloves.
Venus L2(VL2) is in fact a POOF friendly and thus offering a
technically worthy location for an entire collective or community of
such inflated habitat items, that can be made quite livable for each
of those 19+ month missions, especially if getting shielded by an
extra meter or more of beer. Obviously I beer jest, as such required
shield density could be accomplished via Gin or Vodka, and
subsequently replaced by good old reliable pee. (waste not, want not)
Only the systematically perverted mindset of this mostly Old Testament
Usenet from naysay hell, that is in any formal disagreement as based
entirely upon their own faith-based crapolla, are of what's getting
this notion terminated, by way of those intent upon keeping all of
those mutually perpetrated cold-war and religious hocus-pocus lids on
tight, as for otherwise their having been focused upon topic/author
bashings, diverting and/or their total banishing upon all that's
Venus. (I think it's mostly a silly Old Testament Jewish thing, along
with those crazy Catholics and a few other cults bringing up the rear)
Unfortunately, ESA's Venus EXPRESS(VIRTIS) mission is keeping itself
every bit as dead as that of whatever our MI/NSA~NASA wants it to be
dead. The thermal imaging data from their robust PFS instrument has
been kept entirely taboo/nondisclosure rated (aka need to know) from
the very get go.
The surface of Venus is still giving off the average of 20.5 w/m2
(roughly 256 fold greater core energy loss than Earth), and the lower
atmospheric environment of Venus (below them relatively cool acidic
clouds) as having in fact been rather nicely insulated at that, as
well as for having incorporated that fairly robust S8 layer as being
an extra nifty solar isolation benefit, so that damn little of the
available solar IR influx ever reaches that geothermally forced
surface or even contributing all that much solar energy into that
dense lower atmosphere, of what's mostly a thick vapor/dry mixture of
S8 and CO2, that's otherwise unavoidably made available and sustained
as being toasty hot from whatever just below the geothermal surface on
up.
Venus is NOT getting solar roasted to death, at least not entirely if
hardly so.
ESA's sorry as hell "status reports" are all the way down to being
robo status quo. It's as though they're down to the science data
sharing dregs of a pair of soup cans and some string.
ESA's mission demise is too bad because, Venus has otherwise been so
nearby (at times merely 100 fold greater distance than our moon), so
otherwise planetology alive and kicking, as well as so ET accessible
(except for the likes of us village heathen idiots that still can't
honestly manage to walk upon our very own nearby moon, and much less
dare live to tell about it w/o involving banked bone marrow).
BTW; why are those other "The Ghost In The Machine" minions so
entirely screwed up?
-
Brad Guth
The Ghost In The Machine
<1176063939.0...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>:
So OK then. How does one convert CO2 to O2 in a 9.3 MPa, 860F
environment?
There's only one, and it's me. :-P Unless I have some strange groupies
attempting to follow my tail or something (STOP THAT OUT THERE YOU
STRANGE GROUPIES! :-) ).
In any event, you are postulating a trip to Venus L2 from Earth, are you
not? This is fine, but one will have to work out exactly how much one
has to transport (are we talking 1 human, 1 family, 1 dozen families, 1
million families, all of humanity?) plus sufficient resources to keep
them alive, starting with a method by which they'd generate electric
power (recall that VL2 is in virtual shadow; the best they might hope
for there is some atmospheric refraction, if that), and whatever else
is needed to get them from here to there.
> -
> Brad Guth
>
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Useless C++ Programming Idea #104392:
for(int i = 0; i < 1000000; i++) sleep(0);
Art Deco
>>
>> BTW; why are you intentionally posting to those hocus-pocus (aka
>> phony baloney and/or Third Reich) "alt.fan.art-bell,alt.usenet.kooks"
>> groups?
>
>Probably because of inattentiveness on my part. I did not set those
>explicitly.
That was me; Brad is always on-topic in AUK and AFA-B.
brad...@gmail.com
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
> So OK then. How does one convert CO2 to O2 in a 9.3 MPa, 860F
> environment?
The same exact technical process as for doing Mars, except you don't
have to import a nuclear reactor for accommodating the necessary
process energy, nor having to wait for a year's worth of processing to
take place, and therefore roughly less than 1% the cost and
complications of doing Mars. I can't recall each of the technical
steps in that process of converting co2 back into the raw elements of
co/o2, but it's posted on the internet by the likes of Dr. Zubrin and
several others if we ever need to know.
>
> In any event, you are postulating a trip to Venus L2 from Earth, are you
> not?
Yes, why the hell not? After all, VL2 is rather nearby every 19
months.
>
> This is fine, but one will have to work out exactly how much one
> has to transport (are we talking 1 human, 1 family, 1 dozen families, 1
> million families, all of humanity?) plus sufficient resources to keep
> them alive, starting with a method by which they'd generate electric
> power (recall that VL2 is in virtual shadow; the best they might hope
> for there is some atmospheric refraction, if that), and whatever else
> is needed to get them from here to there.
Even though VL2 is a relatively cool parking spot, there's actually a
bit more solar energy to behold while cruising within VL2 than you
might tend to think. It's also a halo orbit worth of station-keeping,
therefore you can expect and/or control as much solar energy influx as
you might need for those banks of PV cells to function, of which such
PV panels can be tethered out a good few km in whatever direction if
need be. Besides, the VL2 energy budget per accommodating each
individual shouldn't be 10% of the ISS energy budget that has to deal
with so much extra solar and secondary earthshine issues, along with
the little extra amount of IR/FIR that's coming off our moon.
Each POOF having it's own set of ION thrusters is what gives this
community of POOFs the collective borg like advantage, as well as
multiple forms of backup, and perhaps if all goes well enough, at most
we should only have to chuck two or three of the original manifest of
crew and passengers due to whatever unavoidable complications.
For argument sake, let us go for a bakers dozen (aka 13 souls, at
least 10 of which can be paying passengers), and remember that there
should also be more than a few corporate/commercial sponsors, such as
the various pizza, beers, self sealing barf-bags and on behalf of
those extreme containment diaper manufacturers.
To begin with, just pack as much pizza and ice cold beer as possible
along for the ride, the rest will follow suit. We can charge our
clients at least $100 million each (one way, as they'll have to fork
over another $100 million if they ever plan on returning to Earth).
The likes of wizard 'tomcat' will gladly R&D and supply his fat-
waverider or whatever go-fast SuperSkylon, or perhaps going for the do-
everything form of a composite rigid airship, although others are
likely more qualified. Bigelow and Russia or perhaps via China will
deal with creating and getting those nifty POOFs into place (a minimum
of 3 POOFs, although a community of 5 POOFs might be best since we'll
need at least one POOF for accommodating all of that pizza and beer,
with one other unit serving as their loony bin POOF, and of course
their SuperSkylon transporter standing nearby as their eventual ride
home, and/or possible OOPS! Plan-B get away)
-
Brad Guth
brad...@gmail.com
Life at VL2's POOF city is offering somewhat tenuous odds, as rather
dependent upon how much shield is doing how much good, and of the
naked physical truth of having to avoid whatever is passing nearby or
through your POOF that has your name on it. Otherwise this POOF city
should be nearly as safe as ISS, although without benefit of a
magnetosphere as shield from those waves of solar wind that's
continually blowing the upper atmospheric stuff of Venus your way, is
perhaps a bit more of an unknown.
The to/from commute is by itself another potentially testy what-if, or
at best a somewhat iffy consideration, that's likely worth a good 6
months that'll add to your time and unavoidable TBI in space, along
with the 16~18 months spent at VL2. I'm not sure if banked bone
marrow will be sufficient, but I certainly would not bother going
without taking along a well isolated N2 frozen soild cache of my own
bone marrow.
Two years worth of serious BO and other unavoidable considerations may
be asking a bit much from most of us. Possibly at best that amount of
time spent off-world can be cut down to 21 months, though don't count
on it, as if anything it's more than likely going to take a combined
30+ months, and that's if nothing goes terribly wrong. Still all and
all, VL2 being within 100 fold the distance of our moon each and every
19 months isn't imposing 5% of what doing Mars is all about.
We can even utilize our gamma and hard-Xray shedding moon itself as a
gravity boosted exit phace in getting to VL2, and upon our return we
should be able once again to utilize that pesky mascon of a moon as
our gravity parking brake. Because the moon only has that thin sodium
and argon atmosphere to deal with, as such the near miss passage for
achieving the best gravity affect can be safely taken to within a few
km off that moon's physically dark and nasty surface.
As for accomplishing Venus itself is not worth hardly 10% of doing
Mars, as well as representing an absolute win-win for those planning
upon staying for the remainder of their life, as for the notions of
ever returning from any such other world or spore and virus infested
moon is actually not such a good option, that is unless losing a few
hundred million folks upon Earth from whatever can easily infect our
frail environment and otherwise traumatise our poorly engineered DNA
(that'll have not a clue as to how to go about protecting ourselves
from whatever weird little forms of such ET micro life), as for such a
biological what-if being a potentially moral and/or ethical problem,
especially if it were derived from whatever was robust enough for
having been associated with that other planet or moon, shouldn't be
excluded from this or any other argument.
Too bad we don't have those station keeping robust habitats at our
moon's L1 for safely accommodating such crew and passengers returning
from whatever other worlds or moons, or better yet of there being
something deep underground upon our salty moon would become nearly the
ideal biological isolation, offering the ultimate solution that's
close enough to home to suit for all but physical contact.
-
Brad Guth
brad...@gmail.com
> wrote
> on 8 Apr 2007 13:25:39 -0700
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Part - 2 - Life at VL2
Surviving at VL2's POOF city is offering somewhat tenuous odds, as
rather dependent upon how much shield is accomplishing how much actual
good, and of the naked physical truth of having to avoid whatever is
passing nearby or through your POOF that has your name on it.
Otherwise this POOF city should be nearly as safe as ISS, although
without benefit of a magnetosphere as shield from those waves upon
waves of solar wind that's continually blowing the upper atmospheric
stuff of Venus directly your way, is perhaps a bit more of an unknown.
brad...@gmail.com
Xrays, then by all means POOF VL2 and/or best the toasty surface of,
or for certain that of cruising just above the deck of Venus is for
you.
For other than having to cope with the little extra to/from commute,
POOF VL2 is better off than anything related to surviving onboard ISS/
ESS, however for those souls brave enough for getting situated well
enough below those relatively cool nighttime clouds of Venus, is by
far offering the most solar and/or cosmic energy isolation in town.
Unless Venus itself is terribly radioactive (of which in spots like
our cosmic and solar energy collective morgue of a moon has to deal
with, whereas Venus most certainly should be in places rather nicely
radioactive since it's somewhat newer than Earth to begin with),
whereas you and your frail DNA would be much better off situated below
such acidic clouds or possibly as directly upon the toasty surface of
Venus (not each and every m2 is as hot as the next), as offering fewer
rad/year and thereby better off for our frail DNA than living on Earth
that's losing its protective magnetosphere at the ongoing demise of -.
05%/year, of which will only further lead our badly failing
environment towards more atmospheric tonnage loss from that point on,
thereby compounding as to further affecting our loss of solar/cosmic
shield benefits, that which our frail DNA can barely manage as is to
survive without showing signs of skin and internal DNA damage.
However, at the nearly 100 bar nighttime worth of the Venusian surface
environment, whereas that thick and terribly buoyant S8/Co2 atmosphere
is going to provide an extremely good amount of shield density against
whatever's locally radioactive. Therefore, even up against some of
the most radioactive locations on Venus are not going to impose all
that much local trauma to those of us in our cozy Ovglove jump suits,
or much less affecting those of us cruising efficiently nearby in our
composite rigid airship.
There's actually much fewer negative aspects of artificially
sustaining life on Venus than positive ones. Most everything about
Venus is actually working on our behalf, including the matter of fact
that's its often so extremely nearby, and otherwise just as it has
been doing so on behalf of accommodating those other smart ETs or
possibly locals as having been doing their natural thing in a very big
and obvious way.
-
Brad Guth
Art Deco
>If your DNA doesn't like those nasty energy spectrums of gamma and
>Xrays, then by all means POOF VL2 and/or best the toasty surface of,
>or for certain that of cruising just above the deck of Venus is for
>you.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzz zzzzzzzzzzz
Wha? Did you say something, Brad?
The Ghost In The Machine
<090420072024518976%er...@caballista.org>:
> <brad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>If your DNA doesn't like those nasty energy spectrums of gamma and
>>Xrays, then by all means POOF VL2 and/or best the toasty surface of,
>>or for certain that of cruising just above the deck of Venus is for
>>you.
>
> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzz zzzzzzzzzzz
>
> Wha? Did you say something, Brad?
>
Oh, he said something all right. Whether it's
comprehensible to those of us who like to think in more
conventional terms is very difficult to say. :-)
In any event, VL2 is far enough away from Venus to require
a very long arm to touch Venus. Of course one might
envision a shuttlebus or some such -- assuming there's
anything really worth seeing apart from Venusian cloud
formations.
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
If your CPU can't stand the heat, get another fan.
Art Deco
>In sci.physics, Art Deco
><er...@caballista.org>
> wrote
>on Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:24:51 -0600
><090420072024518976%er...@caballista.org>:
>> <brad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>If your DNA doesn't like those nasty energy spectrums of gamma and
>>>Xrays, then by all means POOF VL2 and/or best the toasty surface of,
>>>or for certain that of cruising just above the deck of Venus is for
>>>you.
>>
>> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzz zzzzzzzzzzz
>>
>> Wha? Did you say something, Brad?
>>
>
>Oh, he said something all right. Whether it's
>comprehensible to those of us who like to think in more
>conventional terms is very difficult to say. :-)
Sorry, I nodded off as soon as I opened his post.
>
>In any event, VL2 is far enough away from Venus to require
>a very long arm to touch Venus. Of course one might
>envision a shuttlebus or some such -- assuming there's
>anything really worth seeing apart from Venusian cloud
>formations.
Just part of his endless and tortured rationalization via grasping at
any straws for someone to go to Venus and verify his over-processed
radar images really show cities on the surface.
brad...@gmail.com
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
> In sci.physics, Art Deco
> <e...@caballista.org>
> wrote
> on Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:24:51 -0600
>
> > <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>If your DNA doesn't like those nasty energy spectrums of gamma and
> >>Xrays, then by all means POOF VL2 and/or best the toasty surface of,
> >>or for certain that of cruising just above the deck of Venus is for
> >>you.
>
> > zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzz zzzzzzzzzzz
>
> > Wha? Did you say something, Brad?
>
> Oh, he said something all right. Whether it's
> comprehensible to those of us who like to think in more
> conventional terms is very difficult to say. :-)
>
> In any event, VL2 is far enough away from Venus to require
> a very long arm to touch Venus. Of course one might
> envision a shuttlebus or some such -- assuming there's
> anything really worth seeing apart from Venusian cloud
> formations.
>
> --
> #191, ewi...@earthlink.net
> If your CPU can't stand the heat, get another fan.
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
Once again, I'll have to ask; what ever happened to that other nice
"The Ghost In The Machine", that not only wasn't a Jewish Third Reich
minion, but would never have intentionally posted into their
"alt.fan.art-bell and alt.usenet.kooks" cultism?
Is this the official LLPOF "The Ghost In The Machine", or is it of
some other borg member of your silly group of such fuckology expertise
that's otherwise more Jewish than not?
How much of Art Deco and the like of such butt sucking is your LLPOF
mindset actually worth these days?
Your statements to Art Deco are clearly telling of your intended
actions. Is Art Deco your MI/NSA boss, or is he just your assigned
team leader?
-
Brad Guth
John "C"
"Art Deco" <er...@caballista.org> wrote in message
> Sorry, I nodded off as soon as I opened his post.
>
Happens to really Old Jizz-heads.
HJ
Art Deco
Obsession with me noted, Brad.
As you've been told many, many times, you are always on-topic in AUK
and AFA-B.
--
brad...@gmail.com
least not without having to take a serious butt load of mainstream
flak, much the same as for sharing anything about our moon's L1.
Now we're getting the GOOGLE "Server Error" message, as yet another
remote method of keeping those perpetrated cold-war lids on tight. I
guess it's yet another MI/NSA Jewish butt saving thing.
Usenet butt dragging is obviously working, at keeping some of us
honest folks from posting more than our fair share.
-
Brad Guth
brad...@gmail.com
contribution, so I'll try it once again for the old gipper.
Obviously I Ovglove jest, and obviously the co2-->co/o2 (same process
as working on behalf of the Mars mission fiasco) is where the local
needs of whatever O2 is to be found, except in easily available bulk.
The last time I'd checked, Venus had a touch more than its fair share
of co2 (kept nicely bone dry and process preheated to boot), and
otherwise having way more than its fair share of locally renewable
energy to burn (sort of speak), so that you don't have to bother
packing along a nuclear reactor, and at that local pressure your body
doesn't even require all that much O2 (just lots of ice cold beer).
Before doing Venus in whatever cozy Ovglove protected person, even
-
Brad Guth
brad...@gmail.com
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
> So OK then. How does one convert CO2 to O2 in a 9.3 MPa, 860F
> environment?
The same exact technical process as for doing Mars, except you don't
have to import a nuclear reactor for accommodating the necessary
process energy, nor having to wait for a year's worth of processing to
take place, and therefore roughly less than 1% the cost and
complications of doing Mars. I can't recall each of the technical
steps in that process of converting co2 back into the raw elements of
co/o2, but it's posted on the internet by the likes of Dr. Zubrin and
several others if we ever need to know such specifics.
>
> In any event, you are postulating a trip to Venus L2 from Earth, are you
> not?
Yes, why the hell not? After all, VL2 is rather nearby every 19
months.
>
> This is fine, but one will have to work out exactly how much one
> has to transport (are we talking 1 human, 1 family, 1 dozen families, 1
> million families, all of humanity?) plus sufficient resources to keep
> them alive, starting with a method by which they'd generate electric
> power (recall that VL2 is in virtual shadow; the best they might hope
> for there is some atmospheric refraction, if that), and whatever else
> is needed to get them from here to there.
Even though VL2 is a relatively cool parking spot, there's actually a
-
Part - 2 - Life at VL2 is cool
brad...@gmail.com
available science, there's nothing all that entirely insurmountable
about Venus, and that analogy especially goes for Venus L2 that is
simply an absolute terrific win-win for the old gipper of humanly
obtained science.
If your DNA doesn't happen to like those nasty cosmic and solar energy
spectrums of gamma and Xrays (especially of those associated with our
moon), then by all means the destination space-depot or gateway of
POOF VL2, and/or of otherwise best going for the actual toasty surface
of, or for certain that of merely cruising just above the geothermal
toasty deck of Venus in your composite rigid airship is just the
ticket for you (that way you'll not even have to test your Ovglove
jump suit).
For other than having to cope with the little extra to/from commute,
POOF VL2 is better off than anything related to surviving onboard ISS/
ESS, however for those souls brave enough for getting situated well
enough below those relatively cool nighttime clouds of Venus, is by
far offering the most solar and/or cosmic energy isolation in town.
Unless Venus itself is terribly radioactive (of which in spots like
our cosmic and solar energy collective morgue of a moon has to deal
with, whereas Venus most certainly should be in places rather nicely
radioactive since it's somewhat newer than Earth to begin with),
whereas you and your frail DNA would be much better off situated below
such acidic clouds or possibly as directly upon the toasty surface of
Venus (not each and every m2 is as hot as the next), as offering fewer
rad/year and thereby better off for our frail DNA than living on Earth
that's losing its protective magnetosphere at the ongoing demise of -.
05%/year, of which will only further lead our badly failing
environment towards more atmospheric tonnage loss from that point on,
thereby compounding as to further affecting our loss of solar/cosmic
shield benefits, that which our frail DNA can barely manage as is to
survive without showing signs of skin and internal DNA damage.
However, at the nearly 100 bar nighttime season worth of the Venusian
surface environment, whereas that thick and terribly buoyant S8/Co2
atmosphere is going to provide an extremely good amount of shield
density against whatever's locally radioactive. Therefore, even up
against some of the most radioactive of locations on Venus are not
going to impose all that much local trauma to those of us in our cozy
Ovglove jump suits, or much less affecting those of us cruising
efficiently nearby in our composite rigid airship.
To honestly ponder, there's actually much fewer of those negative
aspects of artificially sustaining life on Venus than positive ones.
Most everything about Venus is actually working on our behalf,
including the matter of fact that's its often so extremely nearby, and
otherwise directly usable as is, just as it has been doing so on
The Ghost In The Machine
<1176225872.7...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>:
If you think I'm Jewish, I will have to disappoint you.
I don't even have a menorah, a yarmulke, or a dreidl,
though I might have an eight-sided die someplace, plus
a Chinese chess set, and I do have a beard.
(It's a long story.)
>
> Is this the official LLPOF "The Ghost In The Machine", or is it of
> some other borg member of your silly group of such fuckology expertise
> that's otherwise more Jewish than not?
>
> How much of Art Deco and the like of such butt sucking is your LLPOF
> mindset actually worth these days?
>
> Your statements to Art Deco are clearly telling of your intended
> actions. Is Art Deco your MI/NSA boss, or is he just your assigned
> team leader?
That would be telling. Can't be too careful, what with al Qaeda running
about; it might lead to dancing.
> -
> Brad Guth
>
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Linux makes one use one's mind.
Windows just messes with one's head.
The Ghost In The Machine
<1176233062.1...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>:
> On Apr 8, 2:39 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
> <e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
>> So OK then. How does one convert CO2 to O2 in a 9.3 MPa, 860F
>> environment?
>
> The same exact technical process as for doing Mars, except you don't
> have to import a nuclear reactor for accommodating the necessary
> process energy, nor having to wait for a year's worth of processing to
> take place, and therefore roughly less than 1% the cost and
> complications of doing Mars. I can't recall each of the technical
> steps in that process of converting co2 back into the raw elements of
> co/o2, but it's posted on the internet by the likes of Dr. Zubrin and
> several others if we ever need to know such specifics.
Erm, the raw elements of CO2 are C and O2. CO is carbon monoxide.
The lack of magnetosphere shouldn't be a problem, though I'd have to
research the issue; most of the danger comes from the Sun, which is
occluded.
>
> The to/from commute is by itself another potentially testy what-if, or
> at best a somewhat iffy consideration, that's likely worth a good 6
> months that'll add to your time and unavoidable TBI in space, along
> with the 16~18 months spent at VL2. I'm not sure if banked bone
> marrow will be sufficient, but I certainly would not bother going
> without taking along a well isolated N2 frozen soild cache of my own
> bone marrow.
>
> Two years worth of serious BO and other unavoidable considerations may
> be asking a bit much from most of us.
Two words: recycled water. In any event some bright NASA sort should
be able to figure out a zero-gee shower at some point, though the
current space crew have to make do with sponge baths.
> Possibly at best that amount of
> time spent off-world can be cut down to 21 months, though don't count
> on it, as if anything it's more than likely going to take a combined
> 30+ months, and that's if nothing goes terribly wrong. Still all and
> all, VL2 being within 100 fold the distance of our moon each and every
> 19 months isn't imposing 5% of what doing Mars is all about.
>
> We can even utilize our gamma and hard-Xray shedding moon itself as a
> gravity boosted exit phace in getting to VL2, and upon our return we
> should be able once again to utilize that pesky mascon of a moon as
> our gravity parking brake.
Only if one want to expose the participants to gamma and hard X rays.
> Because the moon only has that thin sodium
> and argon atmosphere to deal with, as such the near miss passage for
> achieving the best gravity affect can be safely taken to within a few
> km off that moon's physically dark and nasty surface.
>
> As for accomplishing Venus itself is not worth hardly 10% of doing
> Mars, as well as representing an absolute win-win for those planning
> upon staying for the remainder of their life, as for the notions of
> ever returning from any such other world or spore and virus infested
> moon is actually not such a good option, that is unless losing a few
> hundred million folks upon Earth from whatever can easily infect our
> frail environment and otherwise traumatise our poorly engineered DNA
> (that'll have not a clue as to how to go about protecting ourselves
> from whatever weird little forms of such ET micro life), as for such a
> biological what-if being a potentially moral and/or ethical problem,
> especially if it were derived from whatever was robust enough for
> having been associated with that other planet or moon, shouldn't be
> excluded from this or any other argument.
>
> Too bad we don't have those station keeping robust habitats at our
> moon's L1 for safely accommodating such crew and passengers returning
> from whatever other worlds or moons, or better yet of there being
> something deep underground upon our salty moon would become nearly the
> ideal biological isolation, offering the ultimate solution that's
> close enough to home to suit for all but physical contact.
We can put them there, if you like. It's mostly a question of boost.
> -
> Brad Guth
>
--
#191, ewi...@earthlink.net
Windows Vista. Because a BSOD is just so 20th century; why not
try our new color changing variant?
--