Re: FWD: Some remains found in Fossett plane wreckage
Damon Hill
news:1nqae4p081ca049s2...@4ax.com:
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/02/steve.fossett.search/index.html
If there are identifiable remains, it will at least give some
closure to this mystery.
--Damon
kT
> OM <om@Up_yours.I'm.a.fascist.com> wrote in
>
>> http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/02/steve.fossett.search/index.html
>
> If there are identifiable remains, it will at least give some
> closure to this mystery.
He hit the fucking mountain at a high rate of speed, Damon.
There is no fucking mystery.
ixo
Sounds kind of like the DC-10 that crashed into an Antarctic mountain in
1979.
kT
They said there were some big cells in the area at the time.
Over water it's worse. I've lost a few good friends that way too.
Pat Flannery
OM wrote:
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/02/steve.fossett.search/index.html
>
>
If you are reading between the lines on that they found, it sounds like
the aircraft hit the ground so hard that he got killed instantly, and
then, fairly shortly thereafter, hungry animals showed up at the
wreckage...and what little is left of him is probably strewn over a few
miles radius wherever they carried it.
As a guess, the reason he crashed probably had a lot to due with
turbulence over the mountains that led to severe updrafts and downdrafts
that his aircraft was caught in.
Real loss...very neat individual.
Pat
Pat Flannery
Damon Hill wrote:
> If there are identifiable remains, it will at least give some
> closure to this mystery.
They apparently have found a chunk of one of his bones.
Pat
Neil Gerace
> As a guess, the reason he crashed probably had a lot to due with
> turbulence over the mountains that led to severe updrafts and downdrafts
> that his aircraft was caught in.
If he 'slammed into the side of a mountain', as one report reads, maybe he was trying to thread his way through the
mountains instead of flying over them?
Pat Flannery
Neil Gerace wrote:
>
> If he 'slammed into the side of a mountain', as one report reads,
> maybe he was trying to thread his way through the mountains instead of
> flying over them?
But one would think that he was a far better pilot than that and would
use his GPS to locate his exact position no matter what the weather...
and also use it to determine the height of the mountains he was over at
any given point.
Wind patterns over mountains can be very treacherous for aircraft and
extend for many thousands of feet above their highest peaks.
I'm almost willing to bet that that will be the final result of the FAA
investigation into the accident when it's completed.
About the only other likely cause is a engine failure of some sort and a
failed attempt to dead-stick land in the mountains.
Anyway, it's a pretty sad and mundane way for a great adventurer to die.
What he was doing near the mountains themselves is a mystery; he was
looking for a big flat stretch of desert to run his planned supersonic
jet-powered car over to set a new world speed record at the time he was
lost.
Pat
OM
<grass...@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>If he 'slammed into the side of a mountain', as one
>report reads, maybe he was trying to thread his way
>through the mountains instead of flying over them?
...He was doing what most hunters dream of doing: a strafing run on a
12-point :-/
OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[
OM
wrote:
>They apparently have found a chunk of one of his bones.
...I remember how this joke goes: "This week, the Vatican confirmed
that the bones of John the Baptist had been found. Vatican officials,
after reassembling the bones, revealed that John the Baptist was a 60'
Brontosaurus who weighed 40 tons and ate two tons of palm leaves a
day..."
OM
wrote:
>If you are reading between the lines on that they found, it sounds like
>the aircraft hit the ground so hard that he got killed instantly, and
>then, fairly shortly thereafter, hungry animals showed up at the
>wreckage...and what little is left of him is probably strewn over a few
>miles radius wherever they carried it.
"Gee, Yogi, I don't think Mr. Ranger's going to like us eating that
poor man."
"Ah, fuck da ranger, Boo-Boo! Pass me that other leg, hey, hey, hey!"
OM
>Sounds kind of like the DC-10 that crashed into an Antarctic mountain in
>1979.
...Elfnazi is a troll. Do not feed the trolls. Just killfile him and
put him out of our misery. Thanks.
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
Sounds a lot more like the two CAP pilots, one a Dryden pilot, who
were killed in the search for Fossett's airplane.
Mary "Identification will probably be by DNA matching"
--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
We didn't just do weird stuff at Dryden, we wrote reports about it.
reunite....@gmail.com or mil...@qnet.com
Visit my blog at http://thedigitalknitter.blogspot.com/
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
wrote:
> Neil Gerace wrote:
> >
> > If he 'slammed into the side of a mountain', as one report reads,
> > maybe he was trying to thread his way through the mountains instead of
> > flying over them?
>
> But one would think that he was a far better pilot than that and would
> use his GPS to locate his exact position no matter what the weather...
> and also use it to determine the height of the mountains he was over at
> any given point.
It's called CFIT, Controlled Flight Into Terrain, and it's the single
most common cause for airliner accidents. I believe it's the second
most common cause for GA accidents, following "continued VFR (Visual
Flight Rules) flight in IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions)".
Remember that airliners file IFR flight plans and are tracked by ATC
radar throughout their flights and still fly into the sides of
mountains.
> Wind patterns over mountains can be very treacherous for aircraft and
> extend for many thousands of feet above their highest peaks.
> I'm almost willing to bet that that will be the final result of the FAA
> investigation into the accident when it's completed.
Not if he smacked into the side of the mountain while climbing. He
wasn't where he thought he was and it wasn't the wind that did him in.
Remember, too, he was from SoCal and Colorado and was accustomed to
mountain flying. It wasn't like some guy from Nebraska flying around
mountains for the first time in his life, you know.
> About the only other likely cause is a engine failure of some sort and a
> failed attempt to dead-stick land in the mountains.
Nope, CFIT. The same way Scott Crossfield died.
> Anyway, it's a pretty sad and mundane way for a great adventurer to die.
> What he was doing near the mountains themselves is a mystery; he was
> looking for a big flat stretch of desert to run his planned supersonic
> jet-powered car over to set a new world speed record at the time he was
> lost.
He was lost when he was lost, Pat. Just like Scott Crossfield and
Dean Paul Martin and his backseater, when his F-4 hit Mt. San
Gorgonio, and the crew of the charter plane carrying Frank Sinatra's
mother, when their bizjet hit the other side of Mt. San Gorgonio.
Ditto the New Zealand DC-10 that hit Mt. Erebus doing an aerial tour
of Antarctica. And the L-1011 that flew into the Everglades because
the crew was fixated on a cockpit light. And all the Bonanzas (aka
fork-tailed doctor killers) scattered around the mountain sides
between Las Vegas and Los Angeles.
Mary "Not cynical, just realistic"
kT
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 01:19:57 -0500, ixo <ixo@nospam> wrote:
>
>> kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote in news:
>>
>>> Damon Hill wrote:
>>>> OM <om@Up_yours.I'm.a.fascist.com> wrote in
>>>> news:1nqae4p081ca049s2...@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/02/steve.fossett.search/index.html
>>>> If there are identifiable remains, it will at least give some
>>>> closure to this mystery.
>>> He hit the fucking mountain at a high rate of speed, Damon.
>>>
>>> There is no fucking mystery.
>> Sounds kind of like the DC-10 that crashed into an Antarctic mountain in
>> 1979.
>
> Sounds a lot more like the two CAP pilots, one a Dryden pilot, who
> were killed in the search for Fossett's airplane.
I didn't hear about that. Or maybe I forgot about it.
It was a year ago. Lots of med-vac choppers going down lately too.
> Mary "Identification will probably be by DNA matching"
The body is merely a temporary container for the soul.
I lost a lot of friends this way. That's why I don't fly much anymore,
and I'm only really interested in rockets now. I've had a lot of really
close calls myself. I rarely if ever fly in a piston aircraft as well.
You gotta love those Citabria's though.
Neil Gerace
> It's called CFIT, Controlled Flight Into Terrain,
Granitocumulus
Neil Gerace
>
> But one would think that he was a far better pilot than that and would
> use his GPS to locate his exact position no matter what the weather...
> and also use it to determine the height of the mountains he was over at
> any given point.
Flying between mountains is more fun, maybe ...
> Anyway, it's a pretty sad and mundane way for a great adventurer to die.
True, and there have been others ... Patton died in a car accident. Well OK not an 'adventurer' as such, but ...
kT
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 23:53:14 -0500, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
>
>> I didn't hear about that. Or maybe I forgot about it.
>
> Heroin will do that to you. Or masturbating to photos of Belsen. Since
> you do both, your lack of knowledge about anything is easily
> understood.
>
> Not forgiven, just understood.
Yes Mr. Mosley, we understand you are a fascist, and you just can't help
but make libelous and slanderous statements about people you hate for no
good reason at all, except for just the joy of hating and slandering.
Fuck your God, Mosley.
OM
>On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 23:53:14 -0500, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
>
>>I didn't hear about that. Or maybe I forgot about it.
>
>Heroin will do that to you. Or masturbating to photos of Belsen. Since
>you do both, your lack of knowledge about anything is easily
>understood.
>
>Not forgiven, just understood.
...Agreed. Doesn't excuse him from his duty to remove himself from the
gene pool with a well-placed bullet.
OM
...Basaltostratus.
kT
> On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 22:05:25 -0500, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
>
>> And for 'God's Sake' read a fucking modern book : http://www.arxiv.org.
>
> Don't you have something better to do? Like polish your goosestepper
> boots with your tongue?
You are making death threats. Quoting your previous post header :
"Organization : Death to Death to Tommy Lee Elfritz, Nazi bastard scumbag!"
Now, what were you saying about goosestepping and bootlicking, fascist?
Your post is archived. I could easily send you to jail.
So go right ahead. Make my day.
kT
>
> you do both, your lack of knowledge about anything is easily
> understood.
>
> Not forgiven, just understood.
Forwarded to ab...@giganews.com/Federal Bureau of Investigation/FBI
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Subject: Re: FWD: Some remains found in Fossett plane wreckage
From: Elfritz Non Grata
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Pat Flannery
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer) wrote:
> Sounds a lot more like the two CAP pilots, one a Dryden pilot, who
> were killed in the search for Fossett's airplane.
>
Shades of Roald Amundsen vanishing while looking for Nobile's dirigible
"Italia" in the arctic in 1928.
According to the latest reports, multiple small bone fragments (very
small... around 1.5 inches long each) have been found, and are being
checked for DNA identification.
The aircraft also apparently caught fire after the crash, so that might
rule out running out of fuel as a cause.
Weather at the crash site was supposed to be clear with only light winds
at the time of the crash, so that deepens the mystery.
Maybe he suffered a heart attack or the aircraft suffered some sort of
mechanical or structural failure?
Pat
Pat Flannery
Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer) wrote:
> It's called CFIT, Controlled Flight Into Terrain, and it's the single
> most common cause for airliner accidents. I believe it's the second
> most common cause for GA accidents, following "continued VFR (Visual
> Flight Rules) flight in IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions)".
>
> Remember that airliners file IFR flight plans and are tracked by ATC
> radar throughout their flights and still fly into the sides of
> mountains.
>
Yeah, but generally at night or in clouds or fog.
He was flying in clear daylight without any severe weather or winds in
the vicinity, so he should have been able to see the mountain looming up
ahead of him.
Pat
Greg D. Moore (Strider)
news:1ZmdncEvXKgwf3XV...@posted.northdakotatelephone...
Yes, 'but'. CFIT can as I understand it occur in all weather conditions.
He could have dropped his pen, bent down to look for it and lost track of
flying, he could have been looking out a side window, etc.
The L-1011 Everglades crash as I recall is sort of the textbook example.
Sure, it was a night, but the entire cockpit crew ended up "working the
problem" and no one was flying the plane and they ignored the warnings that
they were descending. Hence a lot of effort has gone into training to make
sure at least one person is always flying the plane. Tough to do in a
single pilot case.
And my understanding is, even an experience pilot like Steve Fosset is
capable of going down the garden path right up to CFIT.
>
> Pat
--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.
kT
I prefer 'attempting to descend below ground level'.
I guess that would be DBGL for the mentally challenged.
Rhonda Lea Kirk Fries
> Elfritz Non Grata wrote:
>> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 23:53:14 -0500, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't hear about that. Or maybe I forgot about it.
>>
>> Heroin will do that to you. Or masturbating to photos of Belsen.
>> Since you do both, your lack of knowledge about anything is easily
>> understood.
>>
>> Not forgiven, just understood.
Rhonda Lea Kirk Fries
William J. Martini, Judge, United States District Court
Rand Simberg
Lea Kirk Fries" <ni...@databasix.com> made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:
>kT wrote:
>> Elfritz Non Grata wrote:
>>> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 23:53:14 -0500, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I didn't hear about that. Or maybe I forgot about it.
>>>
>>> Heroin will do that to you. Or masturbating to photos of Belsen.
>>> Since you do both, your lack of knowledge about anything is easily
>>> understood.
>>>
>>> Not forgiven, just understood.
>
>I agree with this post completely.
>
>> Forwarded to ab...@giganews.com/Federal Bureau of Investigation/FBI
>
>Please to report me next, you fuckwitted goon.
Rhonda, please. You have deeply insulted fuckwitted goons everywhere.
kT
> kT wrote:
>> Elfritz Non Grata wrote:
>>> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 23:53:14 -0500, kT <cos...@lifeform.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I didn't hear about that. Or maybe I forgot about it.
>>> Heroin will do that to you. Or masturbating to photos of Belsen.
>>> Since you do both, your lack of knowledge about anything is easily
>>> understood.
>>>
>>> Not forgiven, just understood.
>
> I agree with this post completely.
>
>> Forwarded to ab...@giganews.com/Federal Bureau of Investigation/FBI
>
> Please to report me next, you fuckwitted goon.
Is that more or less of an insult than a 'jewish twit'?
Sorry Rhonda, but your headers don't lie.
You are not a fascist. You just defend an asshole
(Robert Mosley III of Austin, Texas), who routinely
threatens people on the usenet with violence and death.
You'll have to try harder to use up your free pass.
OM
wrote:
>He was flying in clear daylight without any severe weather or winds in
>the vicinity, so he should have been able to see the mountain looming up
>ahead of him.
...Maybe the mountain rose up and swatted him down, then?
OM
<ni...@databasix.com> wrote:
>Please to report me next, you fuckwitted goon.
...He's not a goon, Rhonda dear. He's a neo-Nazi bastard troll. That's
about 28 steps below a goon, but only two steps above a rapist, and 21
steps above a childmolester. Unless, of course, he happens to be one
of those. Hard to tell with those who worship Nazis.
Pat Flannery
Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:
>
> Yes, 'but'. CFIT can as I understand it occur in all weather conditions.
> He could have dropped his pen, bent down to look for it and lost track of
> flying, he could have been looking out a side window, etc.
>
But his aircraft wasn't all that fast, he could have seen the mountains
in his close proximity....and glasses on or off, he wouldn't take that
many seconds to go looking for them on the floor if he dropped them.
We had a horrible situation one night way back at KJMS where a elderly
pilot flying solo dropped his glasses, which ended up under the pilot's
seat of his Cessna...where he couldn't reach them while in flight at
night, yet the emergency crew from up at Grand Forks Flight Center got
him back down safely*.
Steve Fossett was anything but a unskilled aviator, and the thought that
he was going to go looking for his dropped glasses without being flying
over flat landscape at several thousand feet above it makes no sense.
As I mentioned before, what exactly was his aircraft doing over the
mountains in the first place?
He specifically set out on this flight with the intent of finding flat
desert areas he could run his turbojet-powered supersonic race car over.
Did he suffer some sort of incapacitating health crisis in-flight, and
Bellanca Super Decathlon aircraft continue on its last course till it
impacted the mountains?
I've never been at the wheel of any type of Bellanca, but the few
minutes I did spend at the wheel of a Cessna showed it was pretty much
inherently stable, and altitude could be controlled by throttle rather
than elevators.
The less said about that experience's side effects on the other two
people in the plane the better.
One was a skilled Cessna pilot with hundreds of hours on him, who was
seriously getting airsick from my attempts to keep it at a set altitude
via use of the altimeter and elevators, as I oscillated up and down by
several hundred feet ever half minute.
He kept telling me all I needed to do has hold the control yoke between
my right thumb and forefinger and give it a little nudge now and then.
My approach was more like grabbing the control stick of a Stuka
dive-bomber with both sweating hands and a Spitfire in hot pursuit.
"We are going to stay at 5,000 feet AGL...okay, over the next couple of
minutes that may mean we bottom out at 4,500 feet AGL, and top out at
5,500 feet AGL...but we are going into some pretty steep climbs and
dives that will average out at 5,000 feet AGL when all things are
considered after the flight. :-D "
*About the time he contacted me with that problem on our Unicom airport
radio frequency while around 150 miles from Jamestown, I switched him
over to FAA emergency frequency up at Grand Forks, and let them deal
with it.
How exactly a 70+ year old severely nearsighted guy was flying around at
night without a restrainer strap on his glasses by law is a bit beyond
me... but whatever was about to go down in regards to this situation in
a moral and real sense, I've got the Irish common sense to drop a hot
potato to those who know how to... and are paid to... take those risks.
Pat
Pat Flannery
OM wrote:
> ...Maybe the mountain rose up and swatted him down, then?
>
One word... Deros: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Sharpe_Shaver
Of course they wanted him dead... he'd come too close to finding the
entry point to their subterranean kingdom.
Pat