Facts vs. media fictions about Terri's actual condition
david ford
erroneous allegation that 'no one is home' in Terri Schindler Schiavo.
Also, Terri can anticipate and feel pain.
A U.S. judiciary run amok and a shameless American Criminal Liberties
Union are intent on murdering via starvation an innocent/ guiltless and
defenseless woman.
Decency demands that this unjustified, court-imposed death sentence on
Terri Schindler Schiavo be stopped.
What, if anything, will you do to help Terri and stop a judiciary and
ACLU run amok?
action items to help Terri
http://www.terrisfight.org/actionitems.html
From
http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schindler-schiavo-docs-links-page.html
from the PDF "Affidavit of William Cheshire, Jr., MD 03-23-05":
AFFIDAVIT
STATE OF FLORIDA
COUNTY OF DUVALL
Before me this day personally appeared William Polk Cheshire, Jr., M.D.,
who, being duly sworn, deposes and says:
I, William Polk Cheshire, Jr., M.D., have personal knowledge of the
facts stated in this declaration and, if called as a witness, I could
and would testify competently thereto under oath. I declare as follows:
I am a neurologist practicing in the State of Florida and am certified
by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology. In regard to my
educational background, I received an A.B. in biochemical sciences from
Princeton University, an M.A. in bioethics from Trinity International
University, and an M.D. from West Virginia University. I completed an
internship in internal medicine at West Virginia University, a residency
in neurology and a pain fellowship at the University of North Carolina.
I am also an appointed volunteer with the Florida Statewide Adult
Protective Services team, in which capacity I was called on March 1,
2005, to provide an independent and objective medical review of
allegations of possible abuse, neglect, or exploitation of Ms. Theresa
Marie Schiavo.
Although no one from the Department of Children and Families has
inquired about my personal views about treatment decisions in cases of
persistent vegetative state (PVS), I would like to disclose that I came
into this case with the belief that it can be ethically permissible to
discontinue artificially provided nutrition and hydration for patients
in a persistent vegetative state. Having now reviewed the relevant
facts, having met and observed Ms. Schiavo in person, and having
reflected deeply on the moral and ethical issues, I would like to
explain why I change my mind in regard to this particular case.
....
Based on my review of extensive medical records documenting Terri's care
over the years, on my personal observation of Terri, and on my
observations of Terri's responses in the many hours of videotapes taken
in 2002, she demonstrates a number of behaviors I believe cast a
reasonable doubt on the prior diagnosis of PVS. These include:
1. Her behavior is frequently context-specific. For example, her
facial expression brightens and she smiles in response to the voice of
familiar persons such as her parents or her nurse. Her agitation
subsides and her facial demeanor softens when quiet music is played.
When jubilant piano music is played, her face brightens, she lifts her
eyebrows, smiles, and even laughs. Her lateral gaze toward the tape
player is sustained for many minutes. Several times I witnessed Terri
briefly, albeit inconsistently, laugh in response to a humorous comment
someone in the room had made. I did not see her laugh in the absence of
someone else's laughter.
2. Although she does not seem to track or follow visual objects
consistently or for long periods of time, she does fixate her gaze on
colorful objects or human faces for some 15 seconds at a time and
occasionally follows with her eyes at least briefly as these objects
move from side to side. When I first walked into her room, she
immediately turned her head toward me and looked directly at my face.
There was a lot of curiosity or expectation in her expression, and she
maintained eye contact for about half a minute. Later, when she again
looked at me, she brought her lips together as if to pronounce the
letter "O," and although for a moment it appeared that she might be
making an intentional effort to speak, her face then fell blank, and no
words came out.
3. Although I did not hear Terri utter distinct words, she demonstrates
emotional expressivity by her use of a single syllable of vocalizations
such as "ah," making cooing sounds, or by expressing guttural sounds of
annoyance or moaning appropriate to the context of the situation. The
context-specific range and the variability of her vocalizations suggests
at least a reasonable probability of the processing of emotional thought
within her brain. There have been reports of Terri rarely using actual
words specific to her situational context. The July 25, 2003 affidavit
of the speech pathologist Sarah Green Mole, MS, on page 6, reads, "The
records of Mediplex reflect the fact that she has said 'stop' in
apparent response to a medical procedure being done to her." The Adult
Protective Services team has been unable to retrieve those original
medical records in this instance.
4. Although Terri has not consistently followed commands, there
appeared to be some notable exceptions. In the taped examination by Dr.
Hammesfahr from 2002, when asked to close her eyes she began to blink
repeatedly. Although it was unclear whether she squeezed her grip when
asked, she did appear to raise her right leg four times in succession
each time she was asked to do so. Rehabilitation notes from 1991
indicated that she tracked inconsistently, and although she did not
develop a yes/no communication system, did follow some commands
inconsistently and demonstrated good eye contact to family members.
5. There is a remarkable moment in the videotape of the September 3,
2002 examination by Dr. Hammesfahr that seemed to go unnoticed at the
time. At 2:44 p.m., Dr. Hammesfahr had just turned Terri onto her right
side to examine her back with a painful sharp stimulus (a sharp piece of
wood), to which Terri had responded with signs of discomfort. Well
after he ceased applying the stimulus and had returned Terri to a
comfortable position, he says to her parents, "So, we're going to have
to roll her over...." Immediately Terri cries. She vocalizes a crying
sound, "Ugh, ha, ha, ha," presses her eyebrows together, and sadly
grimaces. It is important to note that, at that moment, no one is
touching Terri or causing actual pain. Rather, she appears to
comprehend the meaning of Dr. Hammesfahr's comment and she signals her
_anticipation_ of pain. This response suggests some degree of language
processing and interpretation at the level of the cerebral cortex. It
also suggests that she may be aware of pain beyond what could be
explained by simple reflex withdrawal.
6. According to the definition of PVS published by the American Academy
of Neurology, "persistent vegetative state patients do not have the
capacity to experience pain or suffering. Pain and suffering are
attributes of consciousness requiring cerebral cortical functioning, and
patients who are permanently and completely unconscious cannot
experience these symptoms."^6 And yet, in my review of Terri's medical
records, pain issues keep surfacing. The nurses at Woodside Hospice
told us that she often has pain with menstrual cramps. Menstrual flow
is associated with agitation, repeated or sustained moaning, facial
grimacing, limb posturing, and facial flushing, all of which subside
once she is given ibuprofen. Some of the records document moaning,
crying, and other painful behavior in the setting of urinary tract
infections.
....
7. To enter the room of Terri Schiavo is nothing like entering the room
of a patient who is comatose or brain-dead or in some neurological sense
no longer there. Although Terri did not demonstrate during our 90
minute visit compelling evidence of verbalization, conscious awareness,
or volitional behavior, yet the visitor has the distinct sense of the
presence of a living human being who seems at some level to be aware of
some things around her.
As I looked at Terri, and she gazed directly back at me, I asked myself
whether, if I were her attending physician, I could in good conscience
withdraw nutrition and hydration. No, I could not. I could not
withdraw life support if I were asked. I could not withhold
life-sustaining nutrition and hydration from this beautiful lady whose
face brightens in the presence of others.
The neurologic signs are in many ways ambiguous. There is no guarantee
that more sophisticated testing would definitively resolve that
ambiguity to everyone's satisfaction. There would be value, I think, in
obtaining a functional MRI scan if that is possible.
This situation differs fundamentally from end-of-life scenarios where it
is appropriate to withdraw life-sustaining medical interventions that no
longer benefit or are burdensome to patients in the terminal stages of
illness. Terri's feeding tube is not a burden to her. It is not
painful, is not infected, is not eroding her stomach lining or causing
any medical complications. But for the decision to withdraw her feeding
tube, Terri cannot be considered medically terminal. But for the
withdrawal of food and water, she would not die [well, she would not die
now-- everybody dies eventually, sometimes sooner rather than later. We
never know when we will go to meet our Maker. -df].
In summary, Terri [Schindler] Schiavo demonstrates behaviors in a
variety of cognitive domains that call into question the previous
neurologic diagnosis of persistent vegetative state. Specifically, she
has demonstrated behaviors that are context-specific, sustained, and
indicative of a cerebral cortical processing that, upon careful
neurologic consideration, would not be expected in a persistent
vegetative state.
Based on this evidence, I believe that, within a reasonable degree of
medical certainty, there is a greater likelihood that Terri is in a
minimally conscious state than a persistent vegetative state. This
distinction makes an enormous difference in making ethical decisions on
Terri's behalf. If Terri is sufficiently aware of her surroundings that
she can feel pleasure and suffer, if she is capable of understanding to
some degree how she is being treated, then in my judgment it would be
wrong to bring about her death by withdrawing food and water.
At the time of this writing, Terri Schiavo, as the result of the
decisions based on what I have argued to be a faulty diagnosis of
persistent vegetative state, has been without food or water for 5 days.
She is thus at risk of death or serious injury unless the provision of
food and water can be restored. Terri Schiavo lacks the capacity to
consent to emergency protective services and must trust others to act on
her behalf. If she were to be transferred to another facility, it would
be medically necessary first to initiate hydration and ensure that her
serum electrolytes are within normal values.
How medicine and society choose to think about Terri [Schindler] Schiavo
will influence what kind of people we will be as we evaluate and respond
to the needs of the most vulnerable people among us. When serious
doubts exist as to whether a cognitively impaired person is or is not
consciously aware, even if these doubts cannot be conclusively resolved,
it is better to err on the side of protecting vulnerable life.
Respectfully submitted,
William Polk Cheshire, Jr., M.D., M.A., F.A.A.N.
[signature]
Sworn to (or affirmed) and subscribed before me this 23[rd] day of
March, 2005, by William Polk Cheshire, Jr., M.D.
[notary stamp and signature]
======================================================================
articles: livelier ones are by Thomas Sowell and William Kristol. Eric
Cohen's is very thoughtful.
http://www.townhall.com
Cal Thomas: Schiavo case matters in symbol and substance
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-3adfseF68nkocU1%40individual.net
Justifications for taking of human life?
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-3aj33dF67kgcuU2%40individual.net
any atheists against Terri Schindler Schiavo's being starved to death?
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-3adrlvF69l60hU1%40individual.net
1997 Wesley Smith on Germany's slippery slope slide from devaluing some
human life to a little euthanasia/ killing to mass killings
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-3abe1cF6ac7t2U1%40individual.net
ACLU: Legal Terrorists
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/11/27/195402.shtml
Terri Schindler Schiavo Case
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/10/16/223430.shtml
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43463
What, if anything, will you do to help Terri and stop a judiciary and
ACLU run amok?
action items to help Terri
http://www.terrisfight.org/actionitems.html
raven1
wrote:
>In summary, Terri [Schindler] Schiavo demonstrates behaviors in a
>variety of cognitive domains that call into question the previous
>neurologic diagnosis of persistent vegetative state. Specifically, she
>has demonstrated behaviors that are context-specific, sustained, and
>indicative of a cerebral cortical processing that, upon careful
>neurologic consideration, would not be expected in a persistent
>vegetative state.
According to everything I have read on the case, it is
well-established medically that Ms. Schiavo's cerebral cortex no
longer even exists, making the above rather unlikely.
>Based on this evidence, I believe that, within a reasonable degree of
>medical certainty, there is a greater likelihood that Terri is in a
>minimally conscious state than a persistent vegetative state. This
>distinction makes an enormous difference in making ethical decisions on
>Terri's behalf. If Terri is sufficiently aware of her surroundings that
>she can feel pleasure and suffer, if she is capable of understanding to
>some degree how she is being treated, then in my judgment it would be
>wrong to bring about her death by withdrawing food and water.
If this were, in fact, true, I would be in agreement, on an emotional
level, at least. However, it doesn't just contradict, but flies in the
face of every previous medical and legal finding, and I question the
accuracy of the account and the motivation of the author for that
reason. Furthermore, every court that has reviewed the case has agreed
that Ms. Schiavo's expressed wish, to multiple witnesses, was that she
not be kept alive in such a state, so whatever my personal feelings
about the case, her wishes should be honored.
Bobby D. Bryant
> The affidavit extracts below demonstrate the falsity of the old media's
The "old" media?
--
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
Geoff
news:dford3-3ak2...@individual.net...
> Based on my review of extensive medical records documenting Terri's care
> over the years, on my personal observation of Terri, and on my
> observations of Terri's responses in the many hours of videotapes taken
> in 2002, she demonstrates a number of behaviors I believe cast a
> reasonable doubt on the prior diagnosis of PVS. These include:
To bad he didn't do any diagnostic tests like an EEG. Oh wait, that's right.
That would only prove the point contrary to the position he had been trotted
out to make.
Her EEG's are flat. No one's home.
Carl Kaufmann
> The affidavit extracts below demonstrate the falsity of the old media's
> erroneous allegation that 'no one is home' in Terri Schindler Schiavo.
> Also, Terri can anticipate and feel pain.
> A U.S. judiciary run amok and a shameless American Criminal Liberties
> Union are intent on murdering via starvation an innocent/ guiltless and
> defenseless woman.
> Decency demands that this unjustified, court-imposed death sentence on
> Terri Schindler Schiavo be stopped.
No, it demonstrates one doctor's opinion. A doctor who has NOT
examined the patient, and who has a clear pre-existing bias.
<lossy compression>
--
EAC Liar, Damned Liar, and Statistician
alt.atheist #1966
"Statistical thinking will one day be as necessary for efficient
citizenship as the ability to read and write." - H.G. Wells
Harry K
David Ford wrote:
<snip>
Golly gee, now I wonder just who -paid- for his consulting. Have you
ever heard of 'professional witnesses'? They will testify to anything
if paid enough.
Harry K
Sam
Harry K wrote:
i know i will, i can help with audio, mostly, maybe some music theory
--
Sam
Glenn
"raven1" <quotht...@nevermore.com> wrote in message
news:mvo941ppcq49ge24a...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:19:13 -0500, david ford <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >In summary, Terri [Schindler] Schiavo demonstrates behaviors in a
> >variety of cognitive domains that call into question the previous
> >neurologic diagnosis of persistent vegetative state. Specifically, she
> >has demonstrated behaviors that are context-specific, sustained, and
> >indicative of a cerebral cortical processing that, upon careful
> >neurologic consideration, would not be expected in a persistent
> >vegetative state.
>
> According to everything I have read on the case, it is
> well-established medically that Ms. Schiavo's cerebral cortex no
> longer even exists, making the above rather unlikely.
So what? You might not have read anything about the case. However, contradictory
testimony exists.
>
> >Based on this evidence, I believe that, within a reasonable degree of
> >medical certainty, there is a greater likelihood that Terri is in a
> >minimally conscious state than a persistent vegetative state. This
> >distinction makes an enormous difference in making ethical decisions on
> >Terri's behalf. If Terri is sufficiently aware of her surroundings that
> >she can feel pleasure and suffer, if she is capable of understanding to
> >some degree how she is being treated, then in my judgment it would be
> >wrong to bring about her death by withdrawing food and water.
>
> If this were, in fact, true, I would be in agreement, on an emotional
> level, at least. However, it doesn't just contradict, but flies in the
> face of every previous medical
Bullshit.
>and legal finding, and I question the
> accuracy of the account and the motivation of the author for that
> reason. Furthermore, every court that has reviewed the case has agreed
> that Ms. Schiavo's expressed wish, to multiple witnesses, was that she
> not be kept alive in such a state, so whatever my personal feelings
> about the case, her wishes should be honored.
>
That is a main point. However, it assumes a certain state, and does not address
the issue of starving her to death. Was she aware at the time she supposedly
gave notice to those witnesses, how she may die? Would she have said, remove the
tubes but try to feed me, or shoot me in the head, or what.
Wakboth
Glenn wrote:
> "raven1" <quotht...@nevermore.com> wrote in message
> news:mvo941ppcq49ge24a...@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:19:13 -0500, david ford <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >In summary, Terri [Schindler] Schiavo demonstrates behaviors in a
> > >variety of cognitive domains that call into question the previous
> > >neurologic diagnosis of persistent vegetative state.
Specifically, she
> > >has demonstrated behaviors that are context-specific, sustained,
and
> > >indicative of a cerebral cortical processing that, upon careful
> > >neurologic consideration, would not be expected in a persistent
> > >vegetative state.
> >
> > According to everything I have read on the case, it is
> > well-established medically that Ms. Schiavo's cerebral cortex no
> > longer even exists, making the above rather unlikely.
>
> So what? You might not have read anything about the case. However,
> contradictory testimony exists.
Yes, it does. However, contradictory testimony exists as to whether
Earth is a sphere, or whether it goes around the Sun. Testimony needs
to be matched against evidence, and unless you presume a bizarre
conspiracy of dozens of doctors, nurses and so on, all the evidence
points to the fact that all that remains of Terri Schiavo on this Earth
is a braindead carcass that should, in the name of decency and
according to her own stated wishes, be allowed to lapse into death.
-- Wakboth
Claytonus Vs. Godzilla
"Bobby D. Bryant" <bdbr...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:d22p3s$k6a$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005, david ford <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
>
> > The affidavit extracts below demonstrate the falsity of the old media's
>
> The "old" media?
In other words any media that doesn't spew pro-bush, pro-creationist,
pro-republican right wing propoganda and doesn't edit out anything that
questions or disproves what Ford believes in!
Bob Dog
Yet another opportunistic vulture, hoping to feed off her corpse
and get some of the money being tossed at Schiavo's bed fifteen
years after it should have been.
If anyone interest in the facts wants to know them, read the
words of Jay Wolfson, both a doctor and lawyer, and formerly the
court appointed (read: unbiased) guardian of Terri Schiavo.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7286506/
Bob Dog
raven1
<glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote:
>
>"raven1" <quotht...@nevermore.com> wrote in message
>news:mvo941ppcq49ge24a...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:19:13 -0500, david ford <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In summary, Terri [Schindler] Schiavo demonstrates behaviors in a
>> >variety of cognitive domains that call into question the previous
>> >neurologic diagnosis of persistent vegetative state. Specifically, she
>> >has demonstrated behaviors that are context-specific, sustained, and
>> >indicative of a cerebral cortical processing that, upon careful
>> >neurologic consideration, would not be expected in a persistent
>> >vegetative state.
>>
>> According to everything I have read on the case, it is
>> well-established medically that Ms. Schiavo's cerebral cortex no
>> longer even exists, making the above rather unlikely.
>
>So what? You might not have read anything about the case.
Then why would I be posting about it? Are you really this dense? Or do
you just assume that others follow your M.O.?
>However, contradictory
>testimony exists.
Not from any of the doctors who actually treated or examined her in
person.
>> >Based on this evidence, I believe that, within a reasonable degree of
>> >medical certainty, there is a greater likelihood that Terri is in a
>> >minimally conscious state than a persistent vegetative state. This
>> >distinction makes an enormous difference in making ethical decisions on
>> >Terri's behalf. If Terri is sufficiently aware of her surroundings that
>> >she can feel pleasure and suffer, if she is capable of understanding to
>> >some degree how she is being treated, then in my judgment it would be
>> >wrong to bring about her death by withdrawing food and water.
>>
>> If this were, in fact, true, I would be in agreement, on an emotional
>> level, at least. However, it doesn't just contradict, but flies in the
>> face of every previous medical
>
>Bullshit.
Citations to the contrary from physicians who actually attended or
examined her, please.
>>and legal finding, and I question the
>> accuracy of the account and the motivation of the author for that
>> reason. Furthermore, every court that has reviewed the case has agreed
>> that Ms. Schiavo's expressed wish, to multiple witnesses, was that she
>> not be kept alive in such a state, so whatever my personal feelings
>> about the case, her wishes should be honored.
>>
>That is a main point. However, it assumes a certain state,
What exactly is that supposed to mean?
> and does not address
>the issue of starving her to death. Was she aware at the time she supposedly
>gave notice to those witnesses, how she may die? Would she have said, remove the
>tubes but try to feed me, or shoot me in the head, or what.
A moot question at best. Every court that has considered the question
has agreed that she had expressed that she did not want to be kept
alive in such a state, and it is established as a matter of fact that
her cerebral cortex is no longer extant. There's no "her" there any
more, however much anyone (including myself) might wish otherwise.
No one is celebrating her impending death, but realistically, Terri
Schiavo "died" fifteen years ago; what's been kept alive since then is
her body.
cant...@dieznet.com
I have spent some time on the page you quoted, but I can't see why you
quoted it.
the question is why her husband would not simply accept some terms of
divorce so that her parents would become her guardians.
david ford
through 11.
From
http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schindler-schiavo-docs-links-page.html
the PDF "Affidavit of Iyer-Carla-12-15-03":
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA
CIRCUIT CIVIL CASE NO. 03-008212-CI-20
MICHAEL SCHIAVO, as Guardian of
the Person of THERESA MARIE SCHIAVO,
Petitioner,
vs.
JEB BUSH, Governor of the State of Florida, and CHARLIE CRIST, Attorney
General of the State of Florida,
Respondents.
______________________________/
_AFFIDAVIT_
STATE OF FLORIDA}
COUNTY OF PINELLAS}
BEFORE ME the undersigned authority personally appeared CARLA SAUER
IYER, R.N., who being first duly sworn, deposes and says:
1. My name is Carla Sauer Iyer. I am over the age of eighteen and make
this statement of my own personal knowledge.
2. I am a registered nurse in the State of Florida, having been
licensed continuously in Florida from 1997 to the present. Prior to
that I was a Licenses Practical Nurse for about four years.
3. I was employed at Palm Garden of Largo Convalescent Center in Largo,
Florida from April of 1995 to August 11, 1996, while Terri Schiavo was a
patient there.
4. It was clear to me at Palm Gardens that all decisions regarding
Terri Schiavo were made by Michael Schiavo, with no allowance made for
any discussion, debate or normal professional judgment. My initial
training there consisted soley of the instruction "Do what Michael
Schiavo tells you or you will be terminated." This struck me as
extremely odd.
5. I was very disturbed by the decision making protocol, as no
allowance whatsoever was made for professional responsibility. The
atmosphere throughout the facility was dominated by Mr. Schiavo's
intimidation. Everyone there, with the exception of several people who
seemed to be close to Michael, was intimidated by him. Michael Schiavo
always had an overbearing attitude, yelling numerous times such things
as "This is my order and you're going to follow it." He is very large
and uses menacing body language, such as standing too close to you,
getting right in your face and practically shouting.
6. To the best of my recollection, rehabilitation had been ordered for
Terri, but I never saw any being done or had any reason at all to
believe that there was ever any rehab of Terri done at Palm Gardens
while I was there. I became concerned because nothing was being done
for Terri at all, no antibiotics, no tests, no range of motion therapy,
no stimulation, no nothing. Michael said again and again that Terri
should NOT get any rehab, that there should be no range of motion
whatsoever, or anything else. I and a CNA named Roxy would give Terri
range of motion anyway. One time I put a wash cloth in Terri's hand to
keep her fingers from curling together, and Michael saw it and made me
take it out, saying that was therapy.
7. Terri's medical condition was systematically distorted and
misrepresented. When I worked with her, she was alert and oriented.
Terri spoke on a regular basis in my presence, saying such things as
"mommy", and "help me". "Help me" was, in fact, one of her most
frequent utterances. I heard her say it hundreds of times. Terri would
try to say the word "pain" when she was in discomfort, but it came out
more like "pay". She didn't say the "n" sound very well. During her
menses she would indicate her discomfort by saying "pay" and moving her
arms toward her lower abdominal area. Other ways that she would
indicate that she was in pain included pursing her lips, grimacing,
thrashing in bed, curling her toes or moving her legs around. She would
let you know when she had a bowel movement by flipping up the covers and
pulling on her diaper.
8. When I came into her room and said "Hi, Terri", she would always
recognize my voice and her name, and would turn her head all the way
toward me, saying "Haaaiiii" short of,, [sic] as she did. I recognized
this as a "hi", which is very close to what it sounded like, the whole
sound being only a second or two long. When I told her humorous stories
about my life or something I read in the paper, Terri would chuckle,
sometimes more a giggle or laugh. She would move her whole body, upper
and lower. Her legs would sometimes be off the bed, and need to be
repositioned. I made numerous entries into the nursing notes in her
chart, stating verbatim what she said and her various behaviors, but by
my next on-duty shift the notes would be deleted from her chart. Every
time I made a positive entry about any responsiveness of Terri's,
someone would remove it after my shift ended. Michael always demanded
to see her chart as soon as he arrived, and would take it in her room
with him. I documented Terri's rehab potential well, writing whole
pages about Terri's responsiveness, but they would always be deleted by
the next time I saw her chart. The reason I wrote so much was that
everybody else seemed to be afraid to make positive entries for fear of
their jobs, but I felt very strongly that a nurse's job was to
accurately record everything we see and hear that bears on a patient's
condition and their family. I upheld the Nurses Practice Act, and if it
cost me my job I was willing to accept that.
9. Throughout my time at Palm Gardens Michael Schiavo was focused on
Terri's death. Michael would say "When is she going to die?", "Has she
died yet?" and "When is that bitch gonna die?" These statements were
common knowledge at Palm Gardens, as he would make them casually in
passing, without regard even for who he was talking to, as long as it
was a staff member. Other statements which I recall him making include
"Can't you do anything to accelerate her death - won't she ever die?"
When she wouldn't die, Michael would be furious. Michael was also
adamant that the family should not be given information. He made
numerous statements such as "Make sure the parents aren't contacted." I
recorded Michael's statements word-for-word in Terri's chart, but these
entries were also deleted after the end of my shift. Standing orders
were that the family wasn't to be contacted, in fact, there was a large
sign in the front of her chart that said under no circumstances was her
family to be called, call Michael immediately, but I would call them
anyway, because I thought they should know about their daughter.
10. Anytime Terri would be sick, like with a UTI or fluid buildup in
her lungs, colds, pneumonia, Michael would be visibly excited, thrilled
even, hoping that she would die. He would call me, as I was the nurse
supervisor on the floor, and ask for every little detail about her
temperature, blood pressure, etc., and would call back frequently asking
if she was dead yet. He would blurt out "I'm going to be rich!", and
would talk about all the things he would buy when Terri died, which
included a new car, a new boat, and going to Europe, among other things.
11. When Michael visited Terri, he always came alone and always had the
door closed and locked while he was with Terri. He would typically be
there about twenty minutes or so. When he left Terri would be
trembling, crying hysterically, and would be very pale and have cold
sweats. It looked to me like Terri was having a hypoglycemic reaction,
so I'd check her blood sugar. The glucometer reading would be so low it
was below the range where it would register an actual number reading. I
would put dextrose in Terri's mouth to counteract it. This happened
about five times on my shift as I recall. Normally Terri's blood sugar
levels were very stable due to the uniformity of her diet through tube
feeding. I remember finding an insulin vial wrapped up in the rubbish
bin in Terri's room during one of the incidents I am referring to. It
is my belief that Michael injected Terri with Regular insulin, which is
very fast acting.
12. The longer I was employed at Palm Gardens the more concerned I
became about patient care, both relating to Terri Schiavo, for the
reasons I've said, and other patients, too. There was an LPN named
Carolyn Adams, known as "Andy" Adams who was a particular concern. An
unusual number of patients seemed to die on her shift, but she was
completely unconcerned, making statements such as "They are old - let
them die." I couldn't believe her attitude or the fact that it didn't
seem to attract any attention. She made many comments about Terri being
a waste of money, that she should die. She said it was costing Michael
a lot of money to keep her alive, and that he complained about it
constantly (I heard him complain about it all the time too). Both
Michael and Adams said that she would be worth more to him if she were
dead. I ultimately called the police relative to this situation, and
was terminated the next day. Other reasons were cited, but I was
convinced it was because of my "rocking the boat".
13. Ms. Adams was one of the people who did not seem to be intimidated
by Michael. In fact, they seemed to be very close, and Adams would do
whatever Michael told her. Michael sometimes called Adams at night and
spoke at length. I was not able to hear the content of these phone
calls, but I knew it was him talking to her because she would tell me
afterward and relay orders from him.
14. While at Palm Gardens, I became fearful for my personal safety.
This was due to Michael's constant intimidation, including his menacing
body language, vocal tone and mannerisms.
15. I have contacted the Schindler family because I just couldn't stand
by and let Terri die without the truth being known.
FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NAUGHT.
[signature]
CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N.
The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this 15th day of
December, 2003, by CARLA SAUER IYER, R.N., who produced her Florida
driver's license as identification, and who did / did not take an oath.
[notary's signature]
Notary Public
My commission expires:
[notary stamp]
============================================================
"Terri spoke on a regular basis in my presence, saying such things as
"mommy", and "help me". "Help me" was, in fact, one of her most
frequent utterances. I heard her say it hundreds of times. Terri would
try to say the word "pain" when she was in discomfort, but it came out
more like "pay". She didn't say the "n" sound very well."
Terri Schindler Schiavo made a partially-successful attempt to say that
she wanted to live
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43383
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/18/174428.shtml
"During her menses she would indicate her discomfort by saying "pay" and
moving her arms toward her lower abdominal area. Other ways that she
would indicate that she was in pain included pursing her lips,
grimacing, thrashing in bed, curling her toes or moving her legs around."
23 March 2005 William Cheshire affidavit: someone is there; Terri can
anticipate and feel pain
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-3ak2l1F6att0vU1%40individual.net
Mark K. Bilbo
pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
> The affidavit extracts below demonstrate the falsity of the old media's
> erroneous allegation that 'no one is home' in Terri Schindler Schiavo.
> Also, Terri can anticipate and feel pain. A U.S. judiciary run amok and a
> shameless American Criminal Liberties Union are intent on murdering via
> starvation an innocent/ guiltless and defenseless woman.
> Decency demands that this unjustified, court-imposed death sentence on
> Terri Schindler Schiavo be stopped.
>
> What, if anything, will you do to help Terri and stop a judiciary and ACLU
> run amok?
> action items to help Terri
> http://www.terrisfight.org/actionitems.html
>
>
> From
> http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schindler-schiavo-docs-links-page.html
> from the PDF "Affidavit of William Cheshire, Jr., MD 03-23-05":
>
> AFFIDAVIT
>
> STATE OF FLORIDA
> COUNTY OF DUVALL
>
> Before me this day personally appeared William Polk Cheshire, Jr., M.D.,
> who, being duly sworn, deposes
Except he hasn't examined her, hasn't run any tests, and hasn't been
around long. He basically went to "see" her once and watched videos.
Would you want a doctor that diagnoses you that way? No exam, no tests,
just "looks" at you?
He is, mind you, a member of "The Center for Bioethics and Culture" which
has a mission:
"...to educate and equip people of traditional Judeo-Christian faith in
bioethics issues of the 21st Century, a century already christened 'the
Biotech Century.'"
http://www.thecbc.org/redesigned/cbc_summary.html
Except, wait, they're taking *out references to the "traditional
Judeo-Christian faith" in their redesigned site:
http://www.thecbc.org/redesigned/cbc_summary.php
Isn't that interesting? That appears to have happened rather recently as
I saw the CBC reference to the JC faith in a news report about Cheshire.
Press attention made them duck maybe?
Cheshire's bio is at:
http://www.thecbc.org/redesigned/cbc_bod_cheshire.php
His MA in bioethics is from Trinty (http://www.tiu.edu/), a Christian
university.
He's also a member of the "Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity" which
is affiliated with Trinity:
http://www.tiu.edu/trinity/about/about7-cbhd.htm
Their mission statement is:
"...to bring biblical-Christian perspectives to bear on current and
emerging bioethical challenges."
Gee, you don't think maybe Cheshire has a religious agenda do you?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Group website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
Aardvark J. Bandersnatch, MP, LP, BLT, ETC.
<cant...@dieznet.com> wrote in message
news:1111828747....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Bob Dog wrote:
>> david ford <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
> news:<dford3-3ak2...@individual.net>...
>> <snip of necrophilic and money-grubbing diatribe>
> the question is why her husband would not simply accept some terms of
> divorce so that her parents would become her guardians.
Something about "informed consent" from her to agree to the divorce.
Apparently she seems unable to sign the necessary paperwork to grant her
husband a divorce.
Jim Guillory
> If you are pressed for time, read at least the paragraphs numbered 9
> through 11.
Those are the most informative parts, and make me suspect the nurse is not
completely honest. If Michael Schiavo was so eager to have his wife die, and
he spent so much time alone with her, and he was able to alter and forge
medical charts with impunity, then why didn't he just pull a plug, or
disconnect a monitor and make her die? He didn't, which makes me very
suspicious that this testimony if false.
Also, the nurse cared for Schiavo in 1996, but the affidavit was not
written till 2003. If she was so concerned with Schiavo's safety at the
time, why did she wait 7 years to file the affidavit? The whole testimony is
just too after the fact and over the top to be entirely believable.
Regards,
Jim
david ford
[4] KRT asked me if Schiavo ever confided in me
regarding Terri's care. I told her that Michael confided in
me all the time about Terri. I did say, "I will tell you one
thing: Michael never knew what Terri wanted. He never
knew." He would say to me all the time, "I don't know
what to do. I don't know that to do with her. I just don't
know." I told KRT that if he said anything different he
was a liar and that he said to me many times that he had
no idea what her wishes were.
From
http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schindler-schiavo-docs-links-page.html
the PDF "Affidavit of TrudyCapone-05-09-01," with some paragraph numbers
inserted:
_AFFIDAVIT_
STATE OF FLORIDA
COUNTY OF PINELLAS
Before me, the undersigned authority, personally appeared Trudy Capone,
who being first duly sworn, deposes and says:
1. My name is Trudy Capone, I am over the age of 18 years, and I make
this statement on personal knowledge.
2. On Monday, May 7, 2001, Kimberly Takacs ("KRT") interviewed me at my
home. What follows is an accurate summary of our conversation_:_
[3] KRT identified herself as an investigator and provided me with the
proper identification. Not knowing what KRT was here to see me for, I
said I would call the number on the business card to set up a time to
meet and discuss the matter. Immediately KRT indicated that she was
there regarding Terri Schiavo. I did indicate that my son advised me to
not get involved if anything came up regarding me. I asked if KRT was
here on the parents' side or Michael Schiavo's. KRT told me that she
was here representing the parents of Terri and that she would really
like to speak with me. I indicated that I loved Terri and felt so bad
for her.
[4] KRT asked me if Schiavo ever confided in me regarding Terri's care.
I told her that Michael confided in me all the time about Terri. I
did say, "I will tell you one thing: Michael never knew what Terri
wanted. He never knew." He would say to me all the time, "I don't know
what to do. I don't know that to do with her. I just don't know." I
told KRT that if he said anything different he was a liar and that he
said to me many times that he had no idea what her wishes were.
[5] I told KRT that Michael and I were close, but were never
romantically involved. I informed KRT that I felt the reason we were
not romantically involved was because it was so close to settlement
time, and I felt he was afraid of having it come out and did not need
that at the time.
[6] I tried to remember another girl that Michael was involved with. I
told KRT that he was dating a nursing assistant with blonde hair. I am
not sure if that was Cindy Brashers or not.
[7] I stated that Michael went crazy on me when I ended our friendship
because he was calling me so much and I needed more space. I informed
KRT that one day at the hospital where I was working I was avoiding his
calls, and a CNA informed Michael when he kept calling that I had run to
McDonald's and was at lunch. Seemingly very upset, Michael told the
CNA, "I know she's not at McDonald's, she would not eat there. You're
lying." I am something of a health food nut.
[8] I have heard bits and pieces of what Cindi Brashers stated and it
was all true and then some. I did not, however, hear the conversation
between Brashers and the radio DJ that had been on the air. I have been
trying to avoid listening to it all.
[9] I informed KRT that Michael used to tell me that he would never
give away Terri's car and how it was so special to him. I told her that
as soon as he received his settlement he went out and purchased a gold
Acura (I think that was the make) and drove it to my workplace just to
show it to me. All he could talk about was his new car.
[10] I told KRT that I knew that Michael and his new girlfriend/fiancee
had a child and that another one was on the way. KRT asked me if I am
sure of that, and I told her emphatically yes!! Michael talked about
this child with staff members at Palm Gardens where Terri lived.
[11] I stated that if Michael and I went anywhere, he would want to buy
me expensive gifts. One day we were at the mall, and I saw a leather
jacket and said how nice it was. Michael immediately said "Do you want
it?" I told KRT that trial money was everything
to him and that something happened to him once he received the
settlement. He would say very mean things to me. When we ended our
friendship, Michael Schiavo said to me, "You are too old, anyway." I
told KRT I am approximately nine years older than he is.
[12] KRT asked me about Terri when she [i.e., I] cared for her,
specifically if I ever observed any eye movement on Terri's behalf that
would indicate Terri was following people who visited with her eyes and
if she seems to really know what was going on. I told KRT "Absolutely!
Yes, yes. Why do you think Michael would instruct us to give her
medication when she was on her period?"
[13] KRT asked me again about the earlier statement that I had made
about Terri's wishes. I told KRT, "Kim, I swear to you he never knew
what Terri wanted. He would confide in me all the time about how he did
not know, and he would ask me what I thought he should do." Michael had
no idea what Terri's wishes were; [a handwritten line is drawn through,
with handwritten "TC" above, this: he just wanted her to die quickly to
have the money.] I told KRT that Michael used to tell me all the time
that Terri's parents just don't want him to have the money and that they
were mad because he was going to get it all and not them.
[14] I told KRT that we would speak more formally regarding everything
I had told her. I told KRT that I really just wanted to do what was
right. I told KRT to give the family my love and that I will tell KRT
anything she wanted to know. She also said to KRT, "All I can do is
tell you the truth. But again I will tell you Michael had no idea what
Terri wanted. If it's one thing I do know it is that he never knew."
[15] At that time KRT asked me to call and schedule a time to sit down
and talk about more things. I indicated that as an [a handwritten line
is drawn through, with handwritten "LPN TC" above, this: RN] and took
an oath regarding patient confidentiality and did not want to jeopardize
my career. I have no problem telling the truth about Michael Sehiavo.
I just feel that he was very sick and unstable and did not know what he
would do.
[16] Michael Schiavo got a job where I worked and sent me roses and
made my job very difficult there every day. My co-workers would say to
me, "Michael loves you, Trudy." In the beginning I felt like Michael
really did love Terri, but after time passed he just wanted his own life
and the money. Again before KRT left, I stated that if anything I know
it is that Michael lied about Terri's wishes. At that time, KRT left,
and I told her that I would call her to set up a time to discuss in more
detail.
3. I have tried to avoid reading and listening about any of the Terri
Schiavo case, but I feel guilty because I did not want to get involved.
I should have sooner, and my heart is sick for the rest of the
Schindler family.
FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NAUGHT.
[signature] 5/9/01
Trudy Capone, Affiant
The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this 9th day of May,
2001, by TRUDY CAPONE who produced a Florida driver's license as
identification.
[notary signature] 5/9/01
Ken Shaw
Jim Guillory wrote:
> "david ford" <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
> news:dford3-3al4...@individual.net...
>
>>If you are pressed for time, read at least the paragraphs numbered 9
>>through 11.
>
>
> Those are the most informative parts, and make me suspect the nurse is not
> completely honest. If Michael Schiavo was so eager to have his wife die, and
> he spent so much time alone with her, and he was able to alter and forge
> medical charts with impunity, then why didn't he just pull a plug, or
> disconnect a monitor and make her die? He didn't, which makes me very
> suspicious that this testimony if false.
> Also, the nurse cared for Schiavo in 1996, but the affidavit was not
> written till 2003. If she was so concerned with Schiavo's safety at the
> time, why did she wait 7 years to file the affidavit? The whole testimony is
> just too after the fact and over the top to be entirely believable.
>
> Regards,
> Jim
>
Judge Greer felt compelled to comment on this affidavit in one of his
rulings on the case.
<quote>
The remaining affidavits deal exclusively with events which
allegedly occurred in the 1995-1997 time frame. The court feels
constrained to discuss them. They are incredible to say the
least. Ms. Iyer details what amounts to a 15-month cover-up
which would include the staff of Palm Garden of Lago
Convalescent Center, the Guardian of the Person, the Guardian
ad Litem, the medical professionals, the police and, believe it
or not, Mr. and Mrs. Schindler. Her affidavit clearly states
that she would "call them (Mr. and Mrs. Schindler) anyway
because I thought they should know about their daughter." The
affidavit of Ms. Law speaks of Terri responding on a constant
basis. Neither in the testimony nor in the medical records is
there support for these affidavits as they purport to detail
activities and responses of Terri Schiavo. It is impossible to
believe that Mr. and Mrs. Schindler would not have subpoenaed
Ms. Iyer for the January 2000 evidentiary hearing had she
contacted them as her affidavit alleges.
</quote>
IOW Iyer is a liar.
Ken
Larry C. Lyons
What I don't understand is how can Dr. Cheshire be considered an expert
on Minimally Conscious State. I did a scholar.google search to look at
his publishing record, and found that he mainly published on botox 's
effects on TMJ and opinion pieces in a so-called Christian journal
thinly disguised as a bioethics journal. Yes his expertise is astounding.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=author%3A%22W+Cheshire%22&btnG=Search
--
Larry C. Lyons
========================================================
Life is Complex. It has both real and imaginary parts.
========================================================
Chaos, Panic and Disorder. My work here is done.
Larry C. Lyons
From what I understand, there is a bit of activity. However you can get
the same activity by placing a bowl of jello on the EEG, and putting the
electrodes on that. I tried that in grad school, and you do get a
similar EEG pattern found with PVS patients.
larry
Glenn
"Larry C. Lyons" <Larry...@someoneElse.Invalid> wrote in message
news:EZg1e.18103$wL6.17191@trnddc03...
> Geoff wrote:
> > "david ford" <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
> > news:dford3-3ak2...@individual.net...
> >
> >
> >>Based on my review of extensive medical records documenting Terri's care
> >>over the years, on my personal observation of Terri, and on my
> >>observations of Terri's responses in the many hours of videotapes taken
> >>in 2002, she demonstrates a number of behaviors I believe cast a
> >>reasonable doubt on the prior diagnosis of PVS. These include:
> >
> >
> > To bad he didn't do any diagnostic tests like an EEG. Oh wait, that's right.
> > That would only prove the point contrary to the position he had been trotted
> > out to make.
> >
> > Her EEG's are flat. No one's home.
> >
> >
>
> From what I understand, there is a bit of activity. However you can get
> the same activity by placing a bowl of jello on the EEG, and putting the
> electrodes on that. I tried that in grad school, and you do get a
> similar EEG pattern found with PVS patients.
>
wrongly diagnosed as having PVS, and some improve and escape the clutches of
those who would say shit like that, I doubt seriously whether they all have EEG
patterns similar to jello. You're a fruitcake.
Deadrat
> erroneous allegation that 'no one is home' in Terri Schindler Schiavo.
> Also, Terri can anticipate and feel pain.
> A U.S. judiciary run amok and a shameless American Criminal Liberties
> Union are intent on murdering via starvation an innocent/ guiltless and
> defenseless woman.
> Decency demands that this unjustified, court-imposed death sentence on
> Terri Schindler Schiavo be stopped.
>
> What, if anything, will you do to help Terri and stop a judiciary and
> ACLU run amok?
> action items to help Terri
> http://www.terrisfight.org/actionitems.html
>
>
> From
>
http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schindler-schiavo-docs-links-page.html
> from the PDF "Affidavit of William Cheshire, Jr., MD 03-23-05":
>
This post is a perfect example of why over 80% of the public, by some polls,
are disgusted with the people who are making a spectacle of Terri Shiavo's
condition. And I'm not even talking about the attached affidavit or
Cheshire,
both found to be lacking in credibility.
"the falsity of the old media's erroneous allegation"
I've read plenty of media. They either publish clearly marked
opinion pieces or *report* what doctors say. Even doctors
of Cheshire's ilk. Nowhere have I read "the media," old or new,
report as evident fact that Schiavo is essentially without cognitive
function. They always attribute. What's your problem with that?
"Terri can anticipate and fee pain."
Even the nonsense you post doesn't claim that Terri can
anticipate anything, just that she sometimes reacts. And
how do you know that she feels pain? She has no cerebral
cortex to perceive pain, so the best guess is that this is false.
How do you actually conclude otherwise?
"A U.S. judiciary run amok ...."
And just where do you think the judiciary is off base?
Have they failed to follow the law? Have they acted precipitously?
Carelessly? Callously? What? Eight years isn't enough for you?
Have they overstepped their authority? I understand that you
don't like the outcome. I would understand that you might
criticize the courts for being wrong. But I cannot understand
someone who decides the courts are out of control simply because
they didn't rule his way. Would that the legislative and executive
branches had been as honorable.
and a shameless American Criminal Liberties Union
The ACLU supports legal action you don't. So they're not
mistaken. They're shameless.
"intent on murdering via starvation ...."
Look who's shameless now. You know that removing
life support from someone like Terri Schiavo is not murder,
but you say it anyway.
Deadrat
Stanley Friesen
>david ford wrote:
>> The affidavit extracts below demonstrate the falsity of the old media's
>> erroneous allegation that 'no one is home' in Terri Schindler Schiavo.
>> Also, Terri can anticipate and feel pain.
>> A U.S. judiciary run amok and a shameless American Criminal Liberties
>> Union are intent on murdering via starvation an innocent/ guiltless and
>> defenseless woman.
>> Decency demands that this unjustified, court-imposed death sentence on
>> Terri Schindler Schiavo be stopped.
>
>No, it demonstrates one doctor's opinion. A doctor who has NOT
>examined the patient, and who has a clear pre-existing bias.
>
And who seems to be ignorant of the sorts of *apparently* "directed"
behavior can be generated by the brainstem under certain conditions.
The basic reality is that movement per se is actually a poor basis for
deciding if anybody is home.
--
The peace of God be with you.
Stanley Friesen
Stanley Friesen
>On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:58:10 -0700, "Glenn"
><glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote:
>>So what? You might not have read anything about the case.
>
>Then why would I be posting about it? Are you really this dense? Or do
>you just assume that others follow your M.O.?
>
>>However, contradictory
>>testimony exists.
>
>Not from any of the doctors who actually treated or examined her in
>person.
I have not read a great deal, but I did read the ad litum report. That,
combined with my own knowledge of neurobiology convinced me that she was
not longer actually present. [Because humans are adept at imputing
meaning to the activities of others, it is also understandable that her
parents see in her instinctive reactions the remnants of a personality -
but that is just an illusion engendered by our psychology].
>> and does not address
>>the issue of starving her to death. Was she aware at the time she supposedly
>>gave notice to those witnesses, how she may die? Would she have said, remove the
>>tubes but try to feed me, or shoot me in the head, or what.
>
>A moot question at best. Every court that has considered the question
>has agreed that she had expressed that she did not want to be kept
>alive in such a state, and it is established as a matter of fact that
>her cerebral cortex is no longer extant. There's no "her" there any
>more, however much anyone (including myself) might wish otherwise.
>
>No one is celebrating her impending death, but realistically, Terri
>Schiavo "died" fifteen years ago; what's been kept alive since then is
>her body.
I would not even put the "died" in scare quotes. *She* died fifteen
years ago. Only her body has lived on.
Stanley Friesen
>
>Except he hasn't examined her, hasn't run any tests, and hasn't been
>around long. He basically went to "see" her once and watched videos.
>
>Would you want a doctor that diagnoses you that way? No exam, no tests,
>just "looks" at you?
I actually terminated my relationship with a doctor partly because he
gave me a prescription just on my say-so over the phone. [In the case
my own diagnosis was in fact correct, but how did *he* know that?]
Elf M. Sternberg
> AFFIDAVIT
It's not a collection of "facts," it's an affadavit from a man
who has never personally examined Terri Schiavo.
> I, William Polk Cheshire, Jr., M.D., have personal knowledge of the
> facts stated in this declaration and, if called as a witness, I could
> and would testify competently thereto under oath. I declare as follows:
You are aware that Cheshire has stated that PVS is an
illegitimate diagnosis always?
Elf
Glenn
"Stanley Friesen" <sar...@friesen.net> wrote in message
news:mlbb41h3sm4f9o7fu...@4ax.com...
> Carl Kaufmann <cwkau...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >david ford wrote:
> >> The affidavit extracts below demonstrate the falsity of the old media's
> >> erroneous allegation that 'no one is home' in Terri Schindler Schiavo.
> >> Also, Terri can anticipate and feel pain.
> >> A U.S. judiciary run amok and a shameless American Criminal Liberties
> >> Union are intent on murdering via starvation an innocent/ guiltless and
> >> defenseless woman.
> >> Decency demands that this unjustified, court-imposed death sentence on
> >> Terri Schindler Schiavo be stopped.
> >
> >No, it demonstrates one doctor's opinion. A doctor who has NOT
> >examined the patient, and who has a clear pre-existing bias.
> >
> And who seems to be ignorant of the sorts of *apparently* "directed"
> behavior can be generated by the brainstem under certain conditions.
The doctor DID examine the patient, you moron. And he doesn't "seem to be"
ignorant of anything.
>
> The basic reality is that movement per se is actually a poor basis for
> deciding if anybody is home.
>
That's true, and a disgusting strawman.
Dr. Cheshire:
"Based on my review of extensive medical records documenting Terri's care
over the years, on my personal observation of Terri, and on my
observations of Terri's responses in the many hours of videotapes taken
in 2002, she demonstrates a number of behaviors I believe cast a
reasonable doubt on the prior diagnosis of PVS. These include:
1. Her behavior is frequently context-specific."
Read the rest "From
http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schindler-schiavo-docs-links-page.html
from the PDF "Affidavit of William Cheshire, Jr., MD 03-23-05"
Thank you , David.
Glenn
> "Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote:
> >
> >Except he hasn't examined her, hasn't run any tests, and hasn't been
> >around long. He basically went to "see" her once and watched videos.
> >
> >Would you want a doctor that diagnoses you that way? No exam, no tests,
> >just "looks" at you?
Uh, YES!
Dr. Cheshire: "Based on my review of extensive medical records documenting
Terri's care
over the years, on my personal observation of Terri, and on my
observations of Terri's responses in the many hours of videotapes taken
in 2002, she demonstrates a number of behaviors I believe cast a
reasonable doubt on the prior diagnosis of PVS."
He might not have been authorized to run new tests, moron. But personal
observation *is* part of neurological examination, as is review of existing
tests.
>
> I actually terminated my relationship with a doctor partly because he
> gave me a prescription just on my say-so over the phone. [In the case
> my own diagnosis was in fact correct, but how did *he* know that?]
>
I'll bet the doctor is relieved that the moron "terminated his relationship".
Giving the idiot the benefit of the doubt, the doctor was familiar with his
patient, and only excercising a standard practice - which benefited the patient!
Or, in light of seeing this "Stanley Friesen" posting lately, maybe he should
not be given the benefit of the doubt, and what really happened might have been
that he wanted some viagra, so he went on line to a "doctor" and got some.
Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia
> I, William Polk Cheshire, Jr., M.D., have personal knowledge of the
> facts stated in this declaration and, if called as a witness, I could
> and would testify competently thereto under oath. I declare as
> follows:
>
> I am a neurologist practicing in the State of Florida and am certified
> by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology.
Terrifying.
> In regard to my
> educational background, I received an A.B. in biochemical sciences
> from Princeton University, an M.A. in bioethics from Trinity
> International University
That explains quite a bit.
--
"Please enjoy a fish anus." --Blood Waters of Dr. Z.
"There is no way out of here. There is no way out." -Manos IV: Torgo
Goes To Baghdad.
Glenn
"Elf M. Sternberg" <e...@drizzle.com> wrote in message
news:87ll8a2...@drizzle.com...
> david ford <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu> writes:
>
> > AFFIDAVIT
>
> It's not a collection of "facts," it's an affadavit from a man
> who has never personally examined Terri Schiavo.
It *is* a collection of facts. His observations may be incorrect, but he *did*
examine Terri, and he *is* an expert, and he did provide an expert opinion. That
is a *fact*.
>
> > I, William Polk Cheshire, Jr., M.D., have personal knowledge of the
> > facts stated in this declaration and, if called as a witness, I could
> > and would testify competently thereto under oath. I declare as follows:
>
> You are aware that Cheshire has stated that PVS is an
> illegitimate diagnosis always?
>
Damn, the lunatic atheists are in force on this one! Spit it out, moron. Dr.
Cheshire did:
Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> the question is why her husband would not simply accept some terms of
> divorce so that her parents would become her guardians.
>
He's very stubborn. I think that her parents accused him of being a
thief, insinuated that he was a murderer, and some other bad stuff
probably didn't help. He was very active in his wife's care for several
years, more than most men would do I'm sure.
The New York Times
March 26, 2005
Behind Life-and-Death Fight, a Rift That Began Years Ago
By ABBY GOODNOUGH
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla., March 25 - It is almost beyond belief, given the
sea of distance between them now, that Terri Schiavo's husband and
parents once shared a home, a life, a goal.
But for years - when Ms. Schiavo walked and talked among them and after
her catastrophic collapse - the headstrong young man and his
traditionalist in-laws were, by all accounts, friendly.
As the brain-damaged Ms. Schiavo lay dying in a hospice and her husband
and parents continued to the end their battle over her fate, the rancor
built and a transfixed nation wondered how a 12-year-old fight - even one
that everyone agrees began over money - ever became so bad, culminating
in daily court fights and decisions.
The hurled accusations persist: adulterer, opportunists, murderer, liars.
Everyone on the street has taken sides, guessing at the motivations of
Michael Schiavo and the Schindlers but never knowing for sure.
It is easy for most people to assume that blinding love for their
daughter drives the parents, who have begged Mr. Schiavo to give them his
wife and walk away. But his motives are harder to fathom. Is it
stubbornness that drives him, or fervor to commit fully to the other
woman in his life, a girlfriend of eight years with whom he has two
children? Does he want Ms. Schiavo to die because she is a burden, or
because, as he says time and again, he promised her not to keep her alive
by artificial means?
The truth may always be out of reach. But the history of Mr. Schiavo and
the Schindlers, gleaned from court papers, interviews and their
statements over the years, offers at least some insight into a war of
clashing values, personalities and hopes.
Theirs is a battle over power, money and a woman they all claimed to love
more than anything, born of perceived betrayal that grew more painful
with each attack.
Even now, their visits to her deathbed are carefully orchestrated so as
not to coincide, and they cannot agree on what to do with her remains
after she dies.
"It's not a family issue anymore," Ms. Schiavo's younger brother, Bobby
Schindler, said, adding that it had been years since the Schindlers
considered Mr. Schiavo anything but a legal opponent. "All we've ever
asked is that he give Terri back to us."
To Mr. Schiavo and his family, it has all been highly personal.
"We are not mean people," his brother Scott said in an interview on
Friday. "But when you start throwing stones like that, and have
absolutely no respect for anybody else, it's hard to even go there."
They met in the Philadelphia suburbs, where Ms. Schiavo and Michael
Schiavo spent their childhoods and married in 1984, barely past
adolescence. The couple relied on the generosity of her parents, Robert
and Mary Schindler, first living in their basement in Pennsylvania, then
moving to a condominium here that Mr. Schindler bought when he sold his
heavy equipment business.
The Schindlers followed the couple to this sunny coastal city, and though
they did not see Mr. Schiavo often - he was working long hours at
beachside restaurants - they had no problem with him. He called them Mom
and Dad. They paid their daughter and son in-law's rent.
The couple wanted to have a baby, according to court papers, but failed
to conceive, even after consulting a fertility doctor. By then, Ms.
Schiavo, who is 5 foot 3 and had weighed more than 200 pounds in high
school, weighed 110. Her brother and sister now say that she was starting
to feel unhappy in her marriage. In an interview, Bobby Schindler said
Ms. Schiavo had confided in him at a restaurant one night.
"She brought me over to the bathroom and broke down in tears," he said.
"She said her marriage was falling apart, but she didn't have the guts to
divorce him. I was shocked."
In recent years, the Schindlers have also described Mr. Schiavo as a
controlling husband who would keep track of the mileage on his wife's
car, lash out at her for spending money and hound her to stay thin. They
have said that the couple fought in the months before Ms. Schiavo's
collapse and that Mr. Schiavo was, perhaps, harming his wife.
Mr. Schiavo's brother Brian said he found that unfeasible. "Mike was
three times her size," Brian Schiavo, who lives in Sarasota, said in an
interview in 2003. "If he was abusing her, there would be some sign of
something. She would have taken her two cats and gone to her parents'."
Whatever the relationships were, they changed profoundly in February
1990, when Mr. Schiavo says he awoke to a thud in the dead of night and
found his wife passed out on the floor. Together, the Schindlers and Mr.
Schiavo learned that Ms. Schiavo's heart had stopped and that she had
suffered drastic brain damage before the paramedics arrived. Doctors say
a potassium deficiency, possibly caused by an eating disorder, led to her
collapse.
The parents and son-in-law promised to see Ms. Schiavo, just 26, recover.
The Schiavos and Schindlers moved in, sharing a house in St. Petersburg
Beach as they devoted themselves to Ms. Schiavo's care. In June 1990, Mr.
Schiavo was appointed his wife's guardian, and months later, he took her
to California for an experimental, ultimately unsuccessful, treatment to
stimulate her brain.
Ms. Schiavo was later placed in a nursing home in Largo, Fla., where Mr.
Schiavo was strict with and sometimes hostile toward the staff, court
transcripts show.
"His demanding concern for her well-being and meticulous care by the
nursing home earned him the characterization by the administrator as 'a
nursing home administrator's nightmare,' " wrote Jay Wolfson, a court-
appointed independent guardian for Ms. Schiavo who had no say in her case
but researched it in 2003.
Mr. Schiavo even went to nursing school with the goal, his brothers say,
of better caring for his wife.
He filed a malpractice suit against the obstetrician who had overseen Ms.
Schiavo's fertility therapy, contending that the potassium deficiency
should have been detected. In January 1993, the couple was awarded
$750,000 in economic damages for her and $300,000 for loss of
companionship for him.
A month later, on St. Valentine's Day, both sides say, a fight over the
award signaled the beginning of their estrangement. The way Mr. Schiavo
has described it, he was visiting his wife when the Schindlers walked in
and Mr. Schindler asked how much money he would receive from Mr.
Schiavo's part of the malpractice settlement.
The Schindlers say the fight was about what the treatment their
daughter's money would go toward, with their advocating rigorous therapy
and Mr. Schiavo wanting basic care.
The rift quickly deepened. Mr. Schiavo blocked his in-laws' access to his
wife's medical records. In July 1993, the Schindlers briefly tried to
remove Mr. Schiavo as her guardian. Scott Schiavo said his brother was
deeply offended by what he saw as a crass effort by Mr. Schindler to
claim some of the settlement money.
As the fight played out, Mr. Schiavo's hopes for recovery apparently
evaporated. In 1994, court records show, he decided not to have Ms.
Schiavo treated for a urinary tract infection, a move prompted, he later
testified, by her doctor's advice.
"I think he finally saw the reality of it," Brian Schiavo said.
Ultimately, Ms. Schiavo's nursing home challenged the order, and he
canceled it, along with a "do not resuscitate" order he imposed, Mr.
Wolfson said.
But there was no reversing the ill will.
Only after his mother's death in 1997 did Mr. Schiavo tell his in-laws
that on several occasions his wife had said she would not want to be kept
alive artificially. The timing of the disclosure- after he had won the
malpractice money and begun dating Jodi Centonze, with whom he would have
two children - made the Schindlers deeply suspicious, they say. They
continue to insist that their daughter, who they say tried to administer
CPR to the family dog when it was dying, would never choose to have her
life cut short.
"My sister and I were very close, and we never talked about this stuff,"
Bobby Schindler said. "I mean, who would at 20 years old, 25?"
In 1998, when Mr. Schiavo asked a court's permission to remove his wife's
feeding tube, the Schindlers challenged, leading to a trial. That is when
Michael and Scott Schiavo and their sister in-law Joan Schiavo testified
that Ms. Schiavo had told them never to prolong her life artificially.
Scott Schiavo testified that after his grandmother was on life support at
the end of her life, Ms. Schiavo had told him: "If I ever go like that,
just let me go. Don't leave me there."
Judge George Greer of Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Court found the testimony
constituted "clear and convincing" evidence of Ms. Schiavo's wishes, and
her feeding tube was removed in April 2001. It was reconnected days
later, after a former girlfriend of Mr. Schiavo called a radio station to
say he had told her he had no idea whether his wife would have wanted
life-prolonging measures.
That led to new testimony, but it did not change Judge Greer's mind,
partly because the girlfriend recanted.
The Schindlers stepped up their publicity campaign that year, videotaping
their daughter and distributing the tapes to television stations. That
infuriated Mr. Schiavo, Scott Schiavo said, because his self-conscious
wife would have been mortified.
"She was very, very particular about the way she looked, very proud when
she walked out the door," Scott Schiavo said on Friday. "She would be so
upset to have the world seeing her that way, and Michael knew that."
Mr. Schiavo's anger intensified as the Schindlers went increasingly
public, winning support from religious groups, news media outlets and,
ultimately, Gov. Jeb Bush. At one point, Mr. Schiavo banned the
Schindlers from seeing his wife, saying aides at her hospice had found
what appeared to be needle marks on her arm after one of their visits.
A police report found no evidence of wrongdoing, and their visiting
rights resumed three months later.
Mr. Schiavo's demeanor, prickly and forceful, did not gain him much
sympathy.
As the case has attracted national publicity, Mr. Schiavo has become the
subject of such intense, widespread hatred that he and his family
regularly receive death threats. His brother Scott, who lives in
Pennsylvania, said he had received enough such threats this week to send
off his children. On Friday, the F.B.I. said it arrested a man in North
Carolina for sending an e-mail message that offered a $250,000 bounty for
Michael Schiavo's death.
By contrast, the Schindlers - he affable and jokey, she quiet and
melancholic - worked hard to win hearts and minds.
Scott Schiavo said he felt sorry for Mrs. Schindler, who he said was
always close to her daughter, but not for Mr. Schindler, who he said
thrived on the attention. If it were not for the father, he added, "this
could have been resolved a long time ago."
"Terri would still have whatever dignity she had left," Mr. Schiavo said,
"and everything would be peaceful."
Instead, Mr. Schiavo has even rejected the Schindlers' request that their
daughter be buried in Florida instead of cremated, which they object to
as Catholics. He also refused their request to let Ms. Schiavo die in
their home instead of at the hospice.
Mr. Schiavo's lawyer told reporters this week that the cremated remains
would be buried at the Schiavo family plot outside Philadelphia, far from
the parents who fought so intensely to win her back. Whether they can or
will visit her gravesite could be the next subject of dispute.
Lynn Waddell and Dennis Blank contributed reporting from Pinellas County,
Fla., for this article.
cant...@dieznet.com
is that it?
but if the courts have ruled that she is "persistently vegetative",
there must be a way to surrender guardianship to her parents or to the
State.
seen from here, it looks as if the judges were right, but that the
decision is too cruel to be enforced.
Glenn
"Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia" <ne...@newb.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962578AF98...@68.12.19.6...
> david ford <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in
> news:dford3-3ak2...@individual.net:
>
> > I, William Polk Cheshire, Jr., M.D., have personal knowledge of the
> > facts stated in this declaration and, if called as a witness, I could
> > and would testify competently thereto under oath. I declare as
> > follows:
> >
> > I am a neurologist practicing in the State of Florida and am certified
> > by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology.
>
> Terrifying.
>
> > In regard to my
> > educational background, I received an A.B. in biochemical sciences
> > from Princeton University, an M.A. in bioethics from Trinity
> > International University
>
> That explains quite a bit.
>
doctors. You have my blessing.
Jim Lovejoy
I have long contended that 'creationists' have no faith, because they
*need* their religious beliefs to be scientifically supported. But the
Terri Shaivo case surprises even me.
The religious right, and our own pet creationists, look at a woman whose
brain no longer allows her to talk, pray, or think, and instead of saying
"let her go home to the Lord" say instead "She must be kept alive by
artificial means."
But then, why am I surprised? They have already revealed themselves to be
liars and hypocrites.
Maybe there is some rationale for their actions. Maybe they know in some
corner of their being that *they* are in no fit state to meet their maker,
and project that onto people, like Terri Shaivo, who as far as I know,
never committed their sins of 'bearing false witness for the Lord'.
Glenn
<cant...@dieznet.com> wrote in message
news:1111867321.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Aardvark J. Bandersnatch, MP, LP, BLT, ETC. wrote:
> > <cant...@dieznet.com> wrote in message
> > news:1111828747....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > Bob Dog wrote:
> > >> david ford <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
> > > news:<dford3-3ak2...@individual.net>...
> > >> <snip of necrophilic and money-grubbing diatribe>
> >
> >
> > > the question is why her husband would not simply accept some terms
> of
> > > divorce so that her parents would become her guardians.
> >
> > Something about "informed consent" from her to agree to the divorce.
> > Apparently she seems unable to sign the necessary paperwork to grant
> her
> > husband a divorce.
>
> is that it?
I don't see any problem with getting a divorce, if Michael wanted to release
guardianship and what's left of the trust. The courts have ruled essentially
that Terri will never recover, and Michael has a right to get on with his life.
>
> but if the courts have ruled that she is "persistently vegetative",
> there must be a way to surrender guardianship to her parents or to the
> State.
That would only take about an hour, with Michael putting his name on a piece of
paper. But if he did, he's lose inheritance to the balance of Terri's trust
money.
>
> seen from here, it looks as if the judges were right, but that the
> decision is too cruel to be enforced.
>
I don't think the "judges were right", I think they have caused anguish for
years.
Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia
news:glennsheldon-cnj1e.29$ml6...@news.uswest.net:
My educational background is neuroscience, and I haven't really seen
anything that would convince me that only this Cheshire is the only
competent neurologist in the world, and who's relied on family videos--
edited by the family--to support their viewpoint. But discourse with
people who can exlude any evidence which contradicts what they want to
hear is pretty much impossible.
Ken Shaw
cant...@dieznet.com wrote:
I guess you have never loved someone then. If someone I loved was in
that condition I would do what it took give them peace no matter what
anyone thought of me.
Ken
Glenn
> cant...@dieznet.com wrote in news:1111828747.871491.26620
> @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>
> > the question is why her husband would not simply accept some terms of
> > divorce so that her parents would become her guardians.
> >
>
> He's very stubborn. I think that her parents accused him of being a
> thief, insinuated that he was a murderer, and some other bad stuff
> probably didn't help. He was very active in his wife's care for several
> years, more than most men would do I'm sure.
You may be sure, but that means very little. Some men would see dollar signs and
a means of support from in-laws.
Glenn
"Jim Lovejoy" <nos...@devnull.spam> wrote in message
news:9e-dnf7MwsO...@nventure.com...
No it doesn't, you're braindead and sick.
>
> The religious right, and our own pet creationists, look at a woman whose
> brain no longer allows her to talk, pray, or think, and instead of saying
> "let her go home to the Lord" say instead "She must be kept alive by
> artificial means."
And a liar.
>
> But then, why am I surprised? They have already revealed themselves to be
> liars and hypocrites.
Then you're a creationist, because you're a liar and a hypocrite.
>
> Maybe there is some rationale for their actions.
Probably varies, but big ones are compassion and hope for Terri.
>Maybe they know in some
> corner of their being that *they* are in no fit state to meet their maker,
In every corner.
> and project that onto people, like Terri Shaivo,
Not at all. Terri will not get any "fitter". Sheesh, I'm responding to a
lunatic.
>who as far as I know,
> never committed their sins of 'bearing false witness for the Lord'.
>
You don't even make sense. You're a typical mad dog atheist.
Glenn
"Enkidu" <zwi6...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96257E4C...@130.133.1.4...
> "Glenn" <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote in
> news:glennsheldon-2aj1e.26$ml6...@news.uswest.net:
> opinion we can discuss. The fact that his opinion is in the minority
> does not mean he is wrong, but neither does it mean he is right. So, it
> comes down to this: Who is the person to make such a call? Minimally
> conscious or persistently vegetative, it is her husband's responsibility
> to do what he feels is in her best interests, his responsibility to carry
> out what he feels would be her own wish, were she here to express it.
Er, NO. If you had a wife who was familiar with this as you claim, you'd know
that is bullshit. It was Terri's responsibility to leave a will, written or
oral, and it is her guardians responsibility to carry out that will. It has
nothing to do with what a husband "feels".
> The courts have ruled that Terri herself expressed her views to multiple
> witnesses that she would not wish to be kept alive indefinitely with no
> hope of recovery and no real interaction with the world.
The whole story reeks to high heaven, and I personally wouldn't voluntarily
place my life in the hands of a single judge to pick and choose what evidence to
use.
>I trust her
> spouse to make that call for her, as I trust my own spouse to make it for
> me, should the occasion arise. Who would YOU trust? Jeb Bush, or your
> own spouse?
>
It doesn't matter what or why you trust what you do. I've been divorced, so I
wouldn't say I would automatically trust my spouse. I think you're a naive,
ignorant, raving lunatic. I'd create a written living will, if I had a strong
enough opinion on what I would want to happen in these kinds of situations. In
the absense of that, who I trusted would not be known. And if there were *any*
conflicting testimony, I surely wouldn't want someone else choosing between wife
or parents in a battle I didn't foresee.
Are you sure you think you are in your right mind?
Deadrat
"Glenn" <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote in message
news:glennsheldon-sWi1e.24$ml6...@news.uswest.net...
>
> "Stanley Friesen" <sar...@friesen.net> wrote in message
> news:2bcb4197dl46222c3...@4ax.com...
> > "Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote:
> > >
> > >Except he hasn't examined her, hasn't run any tests, and hasn't been
> > >around long. He basically went to "see" her once and watched videos.
> > >
> > >Would you want a doctor that diagnoses you that way? No exam, no tests,
> > >just "looks" at you?
>
> Uh, YES!
>
> Dr. Cheshire: "Based on my review of extensive medical records documenting
> Terri's care
> over the years, on my personal observation of Terri, and on my
> observations of Terri's responses in the many hours of videotapes taken
> in 2002, she demonstrates a number of behaviors I believe cast a
> reasonable doubt on the prior diagnosis of PVS."
>
> He might not have been authorized to run new tests, moron. But personal
> observation *is* part of neurological examination, as is review of
existing
> tests.
>
Are you deliberately missing the point? Sure observation is part of a
neurological exam, but no competent neurologist makes a diagnosis
like this solely on the basis of observation and three year old videos.
> >
> > I actually terminated my relationship with a doctor partly because he
> > gave me a prescription just on my say-so over the phone. [In the case
> > my own diagnosis was in fact correct, but how did *he* know that?]
> >
> I'll bet the doctor is relieved that the moron "terminated his
relationship".
> Giving the idiot the benefit of the doubt, the doctor was familiar with
his
> patient, and only excercising a standard practice - which benefited the
patient!
> Or, in light of seeing this "Stanley Friesen" posting lately, maybe he
should
> not be given the benefit of the doubt, and what really happened might have
been
> that he wanted some viagra, so he went on line to a "doctor" and got some.
>
And really you are down to the best argument you have: that Stanley Friesen
is
a moron because perhaps being overly cautious, Mr. Friesen dismissed his
doctor
"partly" for prescribing medication in the absence of an exam.
Notwithstanding
the fact that Mr. Friesen is always well-informed and unfailingly polite in
his posts,
you find it necessary to speculate that Mr. Friesen suffers from some sexual
dysfunction.
Umm ....
What's wrong with you?
Deadrat
david ford
Highlights/ what I underlined when reading it:
private practice of clinical neuropsychology
....
Ph.D. from Yeshiva University
....
During my career as a clinical neuropsychologist , I have personally
evaluated approximately eleven patients with a clinical profile similar
to that of Terri Schiavo.
....
5. I have not physically examined Terri Schiavo; however, I have
studied the video clips presented at the October 2002 Medical
Evidentiary Hearing.
....
reacting through facial expression necessarily involves the conscious mind.
....
H 07 During a return visit from her mother, Terri greeted her by
speaking the word "Hi".
....
After Terri's mother enters the room, Terri greets her by speaking the
word "Hi," and makes good eye movement toward her.
....
Later, when her father mentions a humorous event from her childhood, she
rolls her eyes and laughs. This demonstrates a quality indicative of a
memory shared interpersonally with an appropriate response.
....
7. The above behaviors are all indicative of cognition and (with the
exception of pupil dilation) are volitional in nature. They are
completely inconsistent with a diagnosis of vegetative state. Terri's
condition cannot be considered persistent because she has obviously
improved over the term of her disability, despite the fact that she has
not received physical therapy, speech therapy, cognitive therapy or
occupational / recreational therapy in many years.
....
8. I have also reviewed an audio recording made on November 29, 2002.
....
Mr. Schindler asks Terri if she can smile for him, to which she
responds by saying "yeah".
....
Of course, Mr. Schindler is a lay person and cannot be expected to
understand the finer points of working with a disabled person such as
Terri. Under normal circumstances, Terri would receive the complete
range of therapies, including physical and occupational, recreational,
cognitive and speech-language therapy, and her family would become more
skillful in her care through involvement in her treatment, but here they
have been deprived of those experiences.
....
she does not vocalize randomly
....
Mr. Schindler again observes that Terri smiles and appears wide-eyed,
indicating her consistent pleasure at being provided stimulation. She
exhibits spontaneous laughter.
....
the brain has "plasticity" and can be stimulated, and new neural
(dendrite) connectors can be formed
....
16. Neuroaerobics is a mode of treatment whereby specific tasks are
used to stimulate specific parts of the brain and specific brain
functions, and are repeated or exercised for maximum effect.
....
In each case increased neural pathways are built and cognitive ability
is enhanced through repeated effort.
....
17. It is my opinion that Mrs. Schiavo is not in a persistent
vegetative state. Terri exhibits extensive and varied purposeful
reactions to her environment. These behaviors are particularly
pronounced in interactions with her family.
....
18. Depriving brain-damaged patients of medical, physical,
occupational, recreational and speech-language therapy is both neglect
and abusive.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
From
http://www.hospicepatients.org/alexander-t-gimon-phd-08-03-affidavit-re-terri-schiavo.html
_AFFIDAVIT_
STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF PINELLAS )
BEFORE ME the undersigned authority personally appeared Alexander T.
Gimon, Ph.D., who being first duly sworn, deposes and says:
1. My name is Alexander T. Gimon, Ph.D. I am over the age of eighteen
years of age. I am engaged in the private practice of clinical
neuropsychology, and have been so continuously since 1983. I work with
patients, both brain injured and general populations.
2. I took my Ph.D. from Yeshiva University in 1973 and had a fellowship
from NIMH and a Clinical & Research Internship. As a Ph.D. candidate, I
worked as a Senior Research Associate at Harvard University's Research
Institute for Educational Problems and have had other extensive
experience in special education and various facets of the practice of
psychology. My full curriculum vitae is attached.
3. Clinical neuropsychology is a specialty profession that focuses on
brain functioning. A clinical neuropsychologist is a licensed
psychologist with expertise in how behavior and skills are related to
brain structures and systems. In clinical neuropsychology, brain
function is evaluated by the measurement of specific behavioral markers
through standardized testing and careful observation.
4. In my practice, I work with many brain injured patients, and I am
familiar with states of impairment known as coma, coma-like, minimally
conscious and persistent vegetative state. As a part of my professional
practice, I evaluate the brain function of patients whose differential
diagnosis include such conditions. During my career as a clinical
neuropsychologist , I have personally evaluated approximately eleven
patients with a clinical profile similar to that of Terri Schiavo.
5. I have not physically examined Terri Schiavo; however, I have
studied the video clips presented at the October 2002 Medical
Evidentiary Hearing. The observations that follow are all within the
parameters of the profession of clinical neuropsychology, and are
similar to the observations that I am called upon to make regularly in
the course of evaluating patients as a clinical neuropsychologist. All
conclusions are based on standards used in the clinical neuropsychology
profession in the evaluation and treatment of patients such as Theresa
Schiavo.
6. Based on my experience and my observations, Mrs. Schiavo is clearly
able to respond cognitively to environmental stimulii. She interacts
verbally and motorically with her mother and with doctors giving verbal
instructions. It is clear on its face that she has brain matter for
these functions, but has been deprived of appropriate therapy and
stimulation. This is documented in the following behaviors noted in the
following video segments:
H 01 (Examination of Dr. Hammesfahr 9/3/02) - This segment begins with
Terri's mother entering the room and addressing Terri. Terri's face
goes from no expression, which is her typical baseline in the absence of
specific stimulii, to a smile with turned-up corners and eyes opening
wider. With the smile she made a sound from the throat and slightly
closed lips. Her expression at that point is indicative of recognition
of her mother and a vocalization which appears to be specific to her
mother. Her eyes focused on her mother's face with eye contact with
her. This is indicative of cognitive recognition with an appropriate
vocal expressive gesture.
H 02 In this sequence Terri's mother told Terri she was going to play
music. The volume had been left on high, and when the music began it
caused a startle response. Later Terri laughs during the music, but it
is not clear whether it is in recognition of the song or is prompted by
her mother's voice.
H 03 Manipulation of Terri's left arm. Terri responded to the doctor
through eye focusing and turning her head toward the massage and
stretching. She was able to hold the focus for an extended period of
time, which indicates interaction and involvement with both the
therapist and the therapy, as well as the ability to direct and hold her
attention for a substantial period of time.
H 04 Facial and head response to arm stimulation. When raised even
with her head, Terri gave a slight grimace of pain. This indicates
sensorium between her conscious mind and that extremity. If the only
reaction involved the extremity which was the source of the pain, it
could be argued that this was a reflex, but reacting through facial
expression necessarily involves the conscious mind.
H 05 Continued arm movement with minimal pain response (possible
peripheral nerve atrophy). During the manipulation, the doctor asked
Terri to open her eyes, and then to look at her mother. She responded
well with slow movements. Terri was also able to hold the focus on her
mother.
H 06 A swab was applied to Terri's lips, and she responded to the touch
and registered her displeasure by frowning and turning her head away.
H 07 During a return visit from her mother, Terri greeted her by
speaking the word "Hi".
H 08 Dr. Hammesfahr introduced a balloon and asked her to look at it.
Terri successfully accomplished this task.
H 10 Eye examination. Terri responded to being asked to open her eyes
and had effective pupil dilation to light.
C 01 (Examination of Dr. Cranford on July 9, 2002) - After Terri's
mother enters the room, Terri greets her by speaking the word "Hi," and
makes good eye movement toward her. Later Dr. Cranford touches Terri's
face much in the same manner as her mother typically does. Terri
responds to this stimulation initially by smiling, but the smile is not
sustained, and it is not equivalent to her response to her mother.
M 02 and M 03 (Examination of Dr. Maxfield 9/4/02) - When Terri's
father moves a balloon and a box of bright lights, Terri is presented
with too much stimulation and turns her head away. Later, when her
father mentions a humorous event from her childhood, she rolls her eyes
and laughs. This demonstrates a quality indicative of a memory shared
interpersonally with an appropriate response.
7. The above behaviors are all indicative of cognition and (with the
exception of pupil dilation) are volitional in nature. They are
completely inconsistent with a diagnosis of vegetative state. Terri's
condition cannot be considered persistent because she has obviously
improved over the term of her disability, despite the fact that she has
not received physical therapy, speech therapy, cognitive therapy or
occupational / recreational therapy in many years.
8. I have also reviewed an audio recording made on November 29, 2002.
In this tape, recorded by Terri's father Robert Schindler in Terri's
room at Hospice, Terri interacts with her father as well as several
people on the telephone, including Terri's mother Mary Schindler, while
Robert Schindler holds the phone to Terri's ear. Terri's voice is
clearly audible on the tape, along with Robert Schindler's
contemporaneous descriptions of her physical behaviors, although the
speaking, singing and playing of music on the phone is not audible.
9. At the beginning of the recording, Robert Schindler greets Terri and
asks how she is. Terri responds, albeit with a slight delay, with a
throaty sound. Mr. Schindler asks Terri if she can smile for him, to
which she responds by saying "yeah". He then asks how she is doing, and
Terri changes tone and inflection to a sound which is apparently
specific to her father.
10. Early in the recording Terri responds to a number of Mr.
Schindler's requests by saying the word "yeah," including when he asks
her to "say something to me," when he asks "can you say hi," and when he
asks if something is hurting her. When Mr. Schindler made the repeated
inquiry about something hurting her, listing various body parts that
might hurt, he assumes that she understands all the body-part names
(arm, leg, and the tease "elbowgan"), which may or may not be true.
During this listing Terri's voice becomes soft and more gutteral, then
makes little or no response, which is ambiguous, in that it may be taken
to be a negative response or may mean that she did not understand the
word employed. By contrast, Dr. Hammesfahr, in referring to various
limbs, combines speaking the name with directing her attention there by
touch, facilitating her understanding. Of course, Mr. Schindler is a
lay person and cannot be expected to understand the finer points of
working with a disabled person such as Terri. Under normal
circumstances, Terri would receive the complete range of therapies,
including physical and occupational, recreational, cognitive and
speech-language therapy, and her family would become more skillful in
her care through involvement in her treatment, but here they have been
deprived of those experiences.
11. Later in the recording there are several instances where Terri is
apparently receiving no stimulation, and Terri remains quiet. This
demonstrates that she does not vocalize randomly, as is also
demonstrated by the several extended lengths of time during the
Hammesfahr examination in which Terri remains quiet.
12. During the first interval in which Terri is listening to
stimulation on the telephone, Mr. Schindler observes that "there is a
smile on your face," which is accompanied by softer sounds from Terri,
each of which indicate her pleasure at the stimulation being provided by
a clearly familiar voice. Terri's soft responses while on the phone
continue. Her laughter is more directed. Terri's sounds are not
random, nor are they repetitive. Again Terri uses the word "yeah" a
number of times. Mr. Schindler again observes that Terri smiles and
appears wide-eyed, indicating her consistent pleasure at being provided
stimulation. She exhibits spontaneous laughter. Later Terri appears to
be quiet and relaxed, the major stimulation having passed. This
demonstrates a relaxation and resting after stimulation of a pleasing
nature.
13. On the second side of the recording, Mr. Schindler repeatedly asks
Terri if she wants him to call her mother on the phone. She responds
immediately to the question with a short sound, like an "ah" sound,
which is a shortened version of "ah-hah." This is a typical mode of
conversational response when interacting with a person who is well known
and with whom she enjoys an easy comfort level. Mr. Schindler repeats
the question in slightly different fashion, perhaps in an effort to
elicit as much speech from Terri as possible. Terri vocalizes in
response consistently during this question, indicating the level of her
desire to speak to her mother, but when Mr. Schindler indicates that he
will call Mrs. Schindler, Terri becomes quiet and patient while he
dials the phone. When there is a delay in getting through to Mary
Schindler, Terri begins vocalizing again, and Mr. Schindler apparently
perceives the need to reassure Terri that he is trying to get her mother
on the phone. When Mrs. Schindler is finally reached and Mr.
Schindler puts Terri on the phone with her mother, Terri becomes very
quiet as she listens attentively. As the conversation progresses, Terri
periodically responds with an "uh-huh" sound, which repeats, but at
varying rather than regular time intervals, as is natural in conversation.
14. The Schindler family relates that, during the interval immediately
after the October, 2002 hearing held in this case and the time of this
recording, that, having been inspired by the interactions noted in the
Hammesfahr examination, they undertook to encourage Terri to vocalize
more, and encouraged her to say the word "yeah" as a way of answering
"yes." Although they had previously heard Terri use the "uh-huh" and
"ugh-ugh" sounds, they had never heard her say "yeah" since her
collapse. At the time of the recording, Terri clearly had added this
word to her repertoire, and uses it meaningfully to answer questions,
although there is no basis to conclude that she is able to answer in the
affirmative this manner in any consistent, reliable manner. This
learned behavior, under the guidance of laypersons suggests that Terri
could perhaps make much greater strides in her ability to communicate if
she were permitted to receive professional cognitive therapy, including
most especially speech-language therapy.
15. Recent research at Johns Hopkins Medical Center and Duke University
demonstrate that the brain has "plasticity" and can be stimulated, and
new neural (dendrite) connectors can be formed, which could further
improve Terri's neurological functioning. Such therapy increases
cognitive function by increasing the number of connections between
existing functioning neurons, and will also bring additional existing,
dormant neurons into use.
16. Neuroaerobics is a mode of treatment whereby specific tasks are
used to stimulate specific parts of the brain and specific brain
functions, and are repeated or exercised for maximum effect. This is
similar to a right-handed pitcher practicing pitching with his left hand
until he develops an increased ability to use the non-dormant arm.
Other examples include professional drivers who develop the ability to
read text backward in their rear-view mirrors, or salesmen who develop
the ability to read documents upside down to a prospect sitting across
the table from them. In each case increased neural pathways are built
and cognitive ability is enhanced through repeated effort. Such therapy
can also trigger latent memories to be restored. Terri demonstrates
control of cognition and would, within a reasonable degree of clinical
therapeutic certainty, respond to neuroaerobics.
17. It is my opinion that Mrs. Schiavo is not in a persistent
vegetative state. Terri exhibits extensive and varied purposeful
reactions to her environment. These behaviors are particularly
pronounced in interactions with her family. There is much research to
affirm the fact that close family members typically perceive cognitive
behaviors in brain-injured patients before other caregivers recognize them.
18. Depriving brain-damaged patients of medical, physical,
occupational, recreational and speech-language therapy is both neglect
and abusive. By denying such patients the stimulation provided by
enjoying a variety of visitors, such common comforts as cards and
flowers in her room, and the opportunity to leave her room, their
cognitive functioning is necessarily depressed from what it would
otherwise be. Given the neglect which Terri has suffered and the number
of years over which it has occurred, it is striking that her current
cognitive functioning is as strong and varied in expression as it is.
This indicates that sufficient brain structure exists for further
cognitive and behavioral progress to be made. Terri is an excellent
subject for a variety of cognitive treatment protocols designed to
improve her neurological function, including neuroaerobics, physical
therapy, recreational / occupational therapy, and speech-language therapy.
19. It is my professional opinion, within a reasonable degree of
clinical therapeutic certainty, that Mrs. Schiavo's cognitive function
and ability to communicate and otherwise interact with her environment
can be greatly enhanced by the modalities mentioned.
FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NAUGHT.
Alexander T. Gimon, Ph.D.
The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this _____ day of
August, 2003, by Alexander T. Gimon, Ph.D., who produced an Illinois
driver's license as identification, and who did / did not take an oath.
Notary Public
My commission expires:
Glenn
> "Glenn" <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote in
> news:glennsheldon-cnj1e.29$ml6...@news.uswest.net:
>
> >
> > "Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia" <ne...@newb.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns962578AF98...@68.12.19.6...
> >> david ford <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in
> >> news:dford3-3ak2...@individual.net:
> >>
> >> > I, William Polk Cheshire, Jr., M.D., have personal knowledge of the
> >> > facts stated in this declaration and, if called as a witness, I
> >> > could and would testify competently thereto under oath. I declare
> >> > as follows:
> >> >
> >> > I am a neurologist practicing in the State of Florida and am
> >> > certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology.
> >>
> >> Terrifying.
> >>
> >> > In regard to my
> >> > educational background, I received an A.B. in biochemical sciences
> >> > from Princeton University, an M.A. in bioethics from Trinity
> >> > International University
> >>
> >> That explains quite a bit.
> >>
> > Yes, that explains your lunacy. You just make sure you are seen only
> > by atheist doctors. You have my blessing.
> >
> >
>
> My educational background is neuroscience,
So is Cheshire's. I doubt your's is much more than kindergarten blocks.
>and I haven't really seen
> anything that would convince me that only this Cheshire is the only
> competent neurologist in the world, and who's relied on family videos--
> edited by the family--to support their viewpoint.
I've seen enough to convince me that you're not competent to treat warts.
Cheshire nor anyone else has claimed he is the only competent neurologist in the
world, nor did he rely on family videos to support his "viewpoint". You're a
liar.
>But discourse with
> people who can exlude any evidence which contradicts what they want to
> hear is pretty much impossible.
>
You must have copied that from somewhere, as you surely couldn't have thought it
up on your own.
Cheshire's testimony *is* evidence, moron. What you do with other evidence that
is contradictory is what you would need to focus on, if you had an ounce of
sense. Determining how people behave because of "what they want to hear" is
quite beyond your capabilities at this point, except to use these types of
idiotic arguments as above to confuse the issue of medical diagnoses.
Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia
news:glennsheldon-MLj1e.32$ml6...@news.uswest.net:
>
> "Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia" <ne...@newb.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns96257BF63D...@68.12.19.6...
>> cant...@dieznet.com wrote in news:1111828747.871491.26620
>> @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>
>> > the question is why her husband would not simply accept some terms
>> > of divorce so that her parents would become her guardians.
>> >
>>
>> He's very stubborn. I think that her parents accused him of being a
>> thief, insinuated that he was a murderer, and some other bad stuff
>> probably didn't help. He was very active in his wife's care for
>> several years, more than most men would do I'm sure.
>
> You may be sure, but that means very little.
Doesn't matter what I think...this issue has been litigated for years, or
are you proposing a liberal democratic conspiracy among neurologists,
xray techs, nurses, all judges and attorneys, the AMA, the Florida
legislature, and the British Dental Association?
> Some men would see dollar
> signs and a means of support from in-laws.
>
The in-laws wanted money too.
--
Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia
news:glennsheldon-clk1e.37$ml6...@news.uswest.net:
>>But discourse with
>> people who can exlude any evidence which contradicts what they want
>> to hear is pretty much impossible.
>>
> You must have copied that from somewhere, as you surely couldn't have
> thought it up on your own.
Mainly learned from 'dialoguing' with a new-ager and a gun-nut on other
newsgroups, but it pretty much applies to all the nitwits who need Fox
News, Rush Limbaugh, the NRA or televangelists what they should believe.
Deadrat
"Glenn" <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote in message
I sure hope you have a living will. I can imagine a courtroom scene in
which the
guardian ad litem says, "Your honor, I have several hundred posts from Glenn
on
talk.origins that clearly show that he has no cerebral function whatsoever."
The
bailiff brings the papers to the bench, and the judge starts to read ....
Kinda gives you chills, doesn't it?
Deadrat
david ford
What I underlined when reading Heidi's affidavit is in these extracts:
2. I worked as a Certified Nursing Assistant at the Palm Gardens
nursing home from March, 1997 to mid-summer of 1997. While I was
employed at Palm Gardens, occasionally I took care of Theresa Schiavo.
....
4. I know that Terri did not receive routine physical therapy or any
other kind of therapy. I was personally aware of orders for
rehabilitation that were not being carried out. Even though they were
ordered, Michael would stop them. Michael ordered that Terri receive no
rehabilitation or range of motion therapy. I and Olga would give Terri
range of motion anyway, but we knew we were endangering our jobs by
doing so. We usually did this behind closed doors, we were so fearful
of being caught. Our hearts would race and we were always looking out
for Michael, because we knew that, not only would Michael take his anger
out on us, but he would take it out more on Terri. We spoke of this
many times.
....
5. Terri had very definite likes and dislikes.
....
Initially, she "clammed up" with me, the way she would with anyone she
did not know or was not familiar or comfortable with. It took about the
fourth or fifth time taking care of her alone, without Olga, that Terri
became relaxed and cooperative and non-resistant with me.
....
9. Terri reacted very well to seeing a picture of her mother, which was
in her room. Many times when I came on duty it would be lying face down
where she could not see it.
....
On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of
Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely. I did not
do it more often only because I was so afraid of being caught by Michael.
....
When she was upset, which was usually the case after Michael was there,
she would withdraw for hours. We were convinced that he was abusing
her, and probably saying cruel, terrible things to her because she would
be so upset when he left.
....
12. In the past, I have taken care of comatose patients, including
those in a persistent vegetative state. While it is true that those
patients will flinch or make sounds occasionally, they don't do it as a
reaction to someone on a constant basis who is taking care of them, the
way I saw Terri do.
....
13. I witnessed a priest visiting Terri a couple of times. Terri would
become quiet when he prayed with her. She couldn't bow her head because
of her stiff neck, but she would still try. During the prayer, she
would keep her eyes closed, opening them afterward. She laughed at
jokes he told her. I definitely know that Terri "is in there."
....
14. The Palm Gardens staff, myself included, were just amazed that a
"Do Not Resuscitate" order had been put on Terri's chart, considering
her age and her obvious cognitive awareness of her surroundings.
....
15. During the time I cared for Terri, she formed words. I have heard
her say "mommy" from time to time, and "momma," and she also said "help
me" a number of times. She would frequently make noises like she was
trying to talk. Other staff members talked about her verbalizations.
....
16. Several times when Michael visited Terri during my shift, he went
into her room alone and closed the door. This worried me because I
didn't trust Michael. When he left, Terri was very agitated, was
extremely tense with tightened fists and some times had a cold sweat.
She was much less responsive than usual and would just stare out the
window, her eyes kind of glassy. It would take much more time and
effort than usual to work her hands open to clean her palms.
....
17. I was told by supervisory staff that Michael was Terri's legal
guardian, and that it didn't matter what the parents or the doctors or
nurses wanted, just do what Michael told you to do or you will lose your
job. Michael would override the orders of the doctors and nurses to
make sure Terri got no treatment.
....
the radio, which Michael insisted be left on one particular station.
She had a television, and there was a sign below it saying not to change
the channel. This was because of Michael's orders.
....
It was particularly distressing that we always had to be afraid that if
Michael got upset, he would take his anger out on Terri.
....
20. I recall an incident when Olga became very upset because Terri
started to get a sore spot, because it might lead to a bedsore. Michael
was told about it but didn't seem to care. He didn't complain about it
all, in fact, saying "she doesn't know the difference." When Terri
would get a UTI or was sick, Michael's mood would improve.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
From
http://www.hospicepatients.org/heidi-law-09-03-affidavit-re-terri-schiavo-michael.html
_AFFIDAVIT_
STATE OF FLORIDA
COUNTY OF PINELLAS
BEFORE ME the undersigned authority personally appeared HEIDI LAW who
being first duly sworn deposes and says:
1. My name is Heidi Law, I am over the age of 18 years, and make this
statement on personal information.
2. I worked as a Certified Nursing Assistant at the Palm Gardens
nursing home from March, 1997 to mid-summer of 1997. While I was
employed at Palm Gardens, occasionally I took care of Theresa Schiavo.
Generally, I worked the 3 p.m. to 11 p.m. shift, but occasionally also
would work a double shift, until 7 a.m. the following morning.
3. At Palm Gardens, most of the patient care was provided by the CNAs,
so I was in a good position to judge Terri's condition and observe her
reactions. Terri was noticeable, because she was the youngest patient
at Palm Gardens.
4. I know that Terri did not receive routine physical therapy or any
other kind of therapy. I was personally aware of orders for
rehabilitation that were not being carried out. Even though they were
ordered, Michael would stop them. Michael ordered that Terri receive no
rehabilitation or range of motion therapy. I and Olga would give Terri
range of motion anyway, but we knew we were endangering our jobs by
doing so. We usually did this behind closed doors, we were so fearful
of being caught. Our hearts would race and we were always looking out
for Michael, because we knew that, not only would Michael take his anger
out on us, but he would take it out more on Terri. We spoke of this
many times.
5. Terri had very definite likes and dislikes. Olga and I used to call
Terri "Fancy Pants," because she was so particular about certain things.
She just adored her baths, and was so happy afterward when she was all
clean, smelling sweet from the lotion her mother provided, and wearing
the soft nightgowns her mother laundered for her. Terri definitely did
not like the taste of the teeth-cleaning swabs or the mouthwash we used.
She liked to have her hair combed. She did not like being tucked in,
and especially hated it if her legs were tightly tucked. You would
always tell when Terri had a bowel movement, as she seem agitated and
would sort of "scoot" to get away from it.
6. Every day, Terri was gotten up after lunch and sat in a chair all
afternoon. When Terri was in bed, she very much preferred to lie on her
right side and look out the window. We always said that she was
watching for her mother. It was very obvious that her mother was her
favorite person in the whole world.
7. I worked side-by-side with another CNA named Olga and could tell
that she and Terri were especially close. Olga took a definite personal
interest in Terri, and Terri responded to her. I could tell that Terri
was very satisfied and happy with Olga's attentions to her.
8. When Olga was talking with Terri, Terri would follow Olga with her
eyes. I have no doubt in my mind that Terri understood what Olga was
saying to her. I could tell a definite difference between the way Terri
responded to Olga and the way she reacted to me, until she got used to
my taking care of her. Initially, she "clammed up" with me, the way she
would with anyone she did not know or was not familiar or comfortable
with. It took about the fourth or fifth time taking care of her alone,
without Olga, that Terri became relaxed and cooperative and
non-resistant with me.
9. Terri reacted very well to seeing a picture of her mother, which was
in her room. Many times when I came on duty it would be lying face down
where she could not see it.
10. At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I
made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep
her mouth moistened. I personally saw her swallow the ice water and
never saw her gag. Olga and I frequently put orange juice or apple
juice in her washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made
her happy. On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small
mouthfuls of Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely.
I did not do it more often only because I was so afraid of being
caught by Michael.
11. On one occasion Michael Schiavo arrived with his girlfriend, and
they entered Terri's room together. I heard Michael tell his girlfriend
that Terri was in a persistent vegetative state and was dying. After
they left, Olga told me that Terri was extremely agitated and upset, and
wouldn't react to anyone. When she was upset, which was usually the
case after Michael was there, she would withdraw for hours. We were
convinced that he was abusing her, and probably saying cruel, terrible
things to her because she would be so upset when he left.
12. In the past, I have taken care of comatose patients, including
those in a persistent vegetative state. While it is true that those
patients will flinch or make sounds occasionally, they don't do it as a
reaction to someone on a constant basis who is taking care of them, the
way I saw Terri do.
13. I witnessed a priest visiting Terri a couple of times. Terri would
become quiet when he prayed with her. She couldn't bow her head because
of her stiff neck, but she would still try. During the prayer, she
would keep her eyes closed, opening them afterward. She laughed at
jokes he told her. I definitely know that Terri "is in there."
14. The Palm Gardens staff, myself included, were just amazed that a
"Do Not Resuscitate" order had been put on Terri's chart, considering
her age and her obvious cognitive awareness of her surroundings.
15. During the time I cared for Terri, she formed words. I have heard
her say "mommy" from time to time, and "momma," and she also said "help
me" a number of times. She would frequently make noises like she was
trying to talk. Other staff members talked about her verbalizations.
16. Several times when Michael visited Terri during my shift, he went
into her room alone and closed the door. This worried me because I
didn't trust Michael. When he left, Terri was very agitated, was
extremely tense with tightened fists and some times had a cold sweat.
She was much less responsive than usual and would just stare out the
window, her eyes kind of glassy. It would take much more time and
effort than usual to work her hands open to clean her palms.
17. I was told by supervisory staff that Michael was Terri's legal
guardian, and that it didn't matter what the parents or the doctors or
nurses wanted, just do what Michael told you to do or you will lose your
job. Michael would override the orders of the doctors and nurses to
make sure Terri got no treatment. Among the things that Terri was
deprived of by Michael's orders were any kind of testing, dental care or
stimulation. I was ordered by my supervisors to limit my time with
Terri. I recall telling my supervisor that Terri seemed abnormally warm
to the touch. I was told to pull her covers down, rather than to take
her temperature. As far as I know, Terri never left her room. The only
stimulation she had was looking out the window and watching things, and
the radio, which Michael insisted be left on one particular station.
She had a television, and there was a sign below it saying not to change
the channel. This was because of Michael's orders.
18. As a CNA, I wanted every piece of information I could get about my
patients. I never had access to medical records as a CNA, but it was
part of my job duties to write my observations down on sheets of paper,
which I turned over to the nurse at the nurses station for inclusion in
the patients charts. In the case of Terri Schiavo, I felt that my notes
were thrown out without even being read. There were trash cans at the
nurses stations that we were supposed to empty each shift, and I often
saw the notes in them. I made extensive notes and listed all of Terri's
behaviors, but there was never any apparent follow up consistent with
her responsiveness.
19. I discussed this situation with other personnel at Palm Gardens,
particularly with Olga, and another CNA, an older black man named Ewan
Morris. We all discussed the fact that we could be fired for reporting
that Terri was responsive, and especially for giving her treatment. The
advice among the staff was "don't do nothin', don't see nothin' and
don't say nothin'." It was particularly distressing that we always had
to be afraid that if Michael got upset, he would take his anger out on
Terri.
20. I recall an incident when Olga became very upset because Terri
started to get a sore spot, because it might lead to a bedsore. Michael
was told about it but didn't seem to care. He didn't complain about it
all, in fact, saying "she doesn't know the difference." When Terri
would get a UTI or was sick, Michael's mood would improve.
FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NAUGHT.
__________________________
Heidi Law, Affiant
STATE OF FLORIDA
COUNTY OF PINELLAS
Sworn to and subscribed before me this ____ day of September, 2003, by
HEIDI LAW, who produced a Florida Driver's License as identification.
Notary Public
My Commission expires:
Glenn
"Deadrat" <no...@none.non> wrote in message
news:3hk1e.14652$DW....@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Glenn" <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote in message
> news:glennsheldon-sWi1e.24$ml6...@news.uswest.net...
> >
> > "Stanley Friesen" <sar...@friesen.net> wrote in message
> > news:2bcb4197dl46222c3...@4ax.com...
> > > "Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >Except he hasn't examined her, hasn't run any tests, and hasn't been
> > > >around long. He basically went to "see" her once and watched videos.
> > > >
> > > >Would you want a doctor that diagnoses you that way? No exam, no tests,
> > > >just "looks" at you?
> >
> > Uh, YES!
> >
> > Dr. Cheshire: "Based on my review of extensive medical records documenting
> > Terri's care
> > over the years, on my personal observation of Terri, and on my
> > observations of Terri's responses in the many hours of videotapes taken
> > in 2002, she demonstrates a number of behaviors I believe cast a
> > reasonable doubt on the prior diagnosis of PVS."
> >
> > He might not have been authorized to run new tests, moron. But personal
> > observation *is* part of neurological examination, as is review of
> existing
> > tests.
> >
>
> Are you deliberately missing the point? Sure observation is part of a
> neurological exam, but no competent neurologist makes a diagnosis
> like this solely on the basis of observation and three year old videos.
>
element in a diagnosis. And for the third time you have ignored, and omitted (I
think, intentionally), the part where the neurologist includes "Based on my
review of extensive medical records documenting Terri's care over the years".
Terri's medical records and "care" would include prior tests, observations and
evaluations, which makes your "solely on the basis of" a misleading statement,
at best.
Snipping long posts from morons.
scooter
As an addendum I would add that literary evidence as posted by Glenn
has further denigrated the case for ID.
Glenn
> "Glenn" <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote in
> news:glennsheldon-MLj1e.32$ml6...@news.uswest.net:
>
> >
> > "Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia" <ne...@newb.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns96257BF63D...@68.12.19.6...
> >> cant...@dieznet.com wrote in news:1111828747.871491.26620
> >> @g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> >>
> >>
> >> > the question is why her husband would not simply accept some terms
> >> > of divorce so that her parents would become her guardians.
> >> >
> >>
> >> He's very stubborn. I think that her parents accused him of being a
> >> thief, insinuated that he was a murderer, and some other bad stuff
> >> probably didn't help. He was very active in his wife's care for
> >> several years, more than most men would do I'm sure.
> >
> > You may be sure, but that means very little.
>
> Doesn't matter what I think...this issue has been litigated for years, or
> are you proposing a liberal democratic conspiracy among neurologists,
> xray techs, nurses, all judges and attorneys, the AMA, the Florida
> legislature, and the British Dental Association?
>
*that's* all true, all true, huh. Them damn Christians, huh.
snip long moronic posts
Glenn
"david ford" <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
news:dford3-3am2...@individual.net...
> August 2003 Alexander Gimon affidavit
Thanks again for another reference, David. Although I'm not an expert by any
means, and understanding that short video bytes from a news story couldn't be
used as evidence, I'll relate a story that three people watching news last night
saw and all agreed on, which may be an example that damages public opinion of
the validity of the decision to kill Terri.
I can't remember what feed, but a short clip of a video of Terri in bed was
shown, where someone was in front of the bed out of sight of the camera, except
for a shadow that moved across Terri and the bed, matched Terri's eye movement
in the same direction and timing. No lapse in the video was apparent, and the
"coincidence" was absolutely shocking. We all gasped at once, then talked about
what we had each seen, which turned out to be the same for each of us. It could
have been a coincidence, but it just as you would expect of someone who is
tracking something in their vision, such as a shadow crossing their path (or the
person making the shadow), from one side to the other, then glancing downward.
Glenn
> "Glenn" <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote in
> news:glennsheldon-clk1e.37$ml6...@news.uswest.net:
>
> >>But discourse with
> >> people who can exlude any evidence which contradicts what they want
> >> to hear is pretty much impossible.
> >>
> > You must have copied that from somewhere, as you surely couldn't have
> > thought it up on your own.
>
> Mainly learned from 'dialoguing' with a new-ager and a gun-nut on other
> newsgroups, but it pretty much applies to all the nitwits who need Fox
> News, Rush Limbaugh, the NRA or televangelists what they should believe.
>
Glenn
"Deadrat" <no...@none.non> wrote in message
Geoff
>
> "Larry C. Lyons" <Larry...@someoneElse.Invalid> wrote in message
> news:EZg1e.18103$wL6.17191@trnddc03...>> > news:dford3-3ak2...@individual.net...
>> >
>> >
>> >>Based on my review of extensive medical records documenting Terri's
>> >>care
>> >>over the years, on my personal observation of Terri, and on my
>> >>observations of Terri's responses in the many hours of videotapes taken
>> >>in 2002, she demonstrates a number of behaviors I believe cast a
>> >
>> >
>> > To bad he didn't do any diagnostic tests like an EEG. Oh wait, that's
>> > right.
>> > That would only prove the point contrary to the position he had been
>> > trotted
>> > out to make.
>> >
>> > Her EEG's are flat. No one's home.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> From what I understand, there is a bit of activity. However you can get
>> the same activity by placing a bowl of jello on the EEG, and putting the
>> electrodes on that. I tried that in grad school, and you do get a
>> similar EEG pattern found with PVS patients.
>>
> Now there's an attitude! "Found with PVS patients". Since many patients
> are
> wrongly diagnosed as having PVS, and some improve and escape the clutches
> of
> those who would say shit like that, I doubt seriously whether they all
> have EEG
> patterns similar to jello. You're a fruitcake.
Yes some patients get misdiagnosed. For PVS, for flu, for hepatitis...
There are some gray area of diagnosis. But not here. This is (sorry,
couldn't resist), a slam dunk!
Glenn
> September 2003 Heidi Law affidavit
Da Judge found this and all other contrary testimony "incredible" and apparently
dismissed the testimony out of hand. I find it incredible that he did so.
Glenn
> "Glenn" <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote in
> news:glennsheldon-k6k1e.34$ml6...@news.uswest.net:
>
> >> Great. You actually have a qualified source, a credible witness,
> >> who's opinion we can discuss. The fact that his opinion is in the
> >> minority does not mean he is wrong, but neither does it mean he is
> >> right. So, it comes down to this: Who is the person to make such a
> >> call? Minimally conscious or persistently vegetative, it is her
> >> husband's responsibility to do what he feels is in her best
> >> interests, his responsibility to carry out what he feels would be her
> >> own wish, were she here to express it.
> >
> > Er, NO. If you had a wife who was familiar with this as you claim,
> > you'd know that is bullshit. It was Terri's responsibility to leave a
> > will, written or oral, and it is her guardians responsibility to carry
> > out that will. It has nothing to do with what a husband "feels".
>
> "Er, NO. If you had a wife who was familiar with this as you claim,
> responsibility to speak and act for me if I'm not able to speak and act
> for myself?
No, idiot. It is bullshit to say that a husband should have the authority to "do
what he feels" is right for a wife.
>No bullshit there.
Why, yes there is, actually. You created a strawman for yourself, ignoring my
clear argument.
>And her husband has good reason to feel
> he knows what she would want, since we have other witnesses who testified
> that she said she would not want to be kept alive in such a state.
>
Un freakin believable. What hole did you idiots come out from? He has good
reason to feel he knows what she wants because other witnesses have claimed they
knew what she wanted??? He has her parents and others that say otherwise.
snip long posts from morons.
rja.ca...@excite.com
> "1. Her behavior is frequently context-specific."
That and holding a state governorship are enough to get you nominated
for President, right?
Glenn
"Geoff" <geb...@yahoo.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ZvSdnY9SaqH...@giganews.com...
Glenn
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1111878880.4...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Larry C. Lyons
> "Larry C. Lyons" <Larry...@someoneElse.Invalid> wrote in message
> news:EZg1e.18103$wL6.17191@trnddc03...
>
>>Geoff wrote:
>>
>>>"david ford" <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
>>>news:dford3-3ak2...@individual.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Based on my review of extensive medical records documenting Terri's care
>>>>over the years, on my personal observation of Terri, and on my
>>>>observations of Terri's responses in the many hours of videotapes taken
>>>>in 2002, she demonstrates a number of behaviors I believe cast a
>>>>reasonable doubt on the prior diagnosis of PVS. These include:
>>>
>>>
>>>To bad he didn't do any diagnostic tests like an EEG. Oh wait, that's right.
>>>That would only prove the point contrary to the position he had been trotted
>>>out to make.
>>>
>>>Her EEG's are flat. No one's home.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> From what I understand, there is a bit of activity. However you can get
>>the same activity by placing a bowl of jello on the EEG, and putting the
>>electrodes on that. I tried that in grad school, and you do get a
>>similar EEG pattern found with PVS patients.
>>
>
> Now there's an attitude! "Found with PVS patients". Since many patients are
> wrongly diagnosed as having PVS, and some improve and escape the clutches of
> those who would say shit like that, I doubt seriously whether they all have EEG
> patterns similar to jello. You're a fruitcake.
>
Have you worked with people who have been diagnosed with PVS or MCS? Are
you familiar with administering EEG and accurately interpreting it?
Obviously not from the sounds of it. I guess your expertise is in
pre-juvinile tempertantrums and infantile insults.
As for those so called misdiagnoses, if your also read the same article,
you'll see that the authors noted that many of these so-called
misdiagnosed patients were blind or deaf. Therefore visual or auditory
tracking tests don't work. Later studies have shown than when such
factors are taken into account the misdiagnosis rate significantly
drops. But given the behavioral tests, the EEG and the CT scans, the
evidence is overwhemingly obvious that Ms. Shiavo has not higher
cortical functions. Her brain is what's called decorticate - without a
cortex.
As for the jello analogy, I was pointing out that any indications of
minimal activity can be artifactual. Simply put, the vibrations from the
equipment are picked up by the EEG electrodes and recorded as a
waveform. If these artifacts are not filted out they can be interpreted
as EEG activity. Moreover our brains have a very similar consistency of
jello. In the mid 70's Dutch researchers originally tried that
experiment using gelatin and found some activity. So its possible to
misdiagnose the other way as well, ascribing cognitive activity when the
machine is only picking up outside vibrations.
larry
--
Larry C. Lyons
========================================================
Life is Complex. It has both real and imaginary parts.
========================================================
Chaos, Panic and Disorder. My work here is done.
Larry C. Lyons
>
>>Carl Kaufmann <cwkau...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>david ford wrote:
>>>
>>>>The affidavit extracts below demonstrate the falsity of the old media's
>>>>erroneous allegation that 'no one is home' in Terri Schindler Schiavo.
>>>>Also, Terri can anticipate and feel pain.
>>>>A U.S. judiciary run amok and a shameless American Criminal Liberties
>>>>Union are intent on murdering via starvation an innocent/ guiltless and
>>>>defenseless woman.
>>>>Decency demands that this unjustified, court-imposed death sentence on
>>>>Terri Schindler Schiavo be stopped.
>>>
>>>No, it demonstrates one doctor's opinion. A doctor who has NOT
>>>examined the patient, and who has a clear pre-existing bias.
>>>
>>
>>And who seems to be ignorant of the sorts of *apparently* "directed"
>>behavior can be generated by the brainstem under certain conditions.
>
>
> The doctor DID examine the patient, you moron. And he doesn't "seem to be"
> ignorant of anything.
>
>>The basic reality is that movement per se is actually a poor basis for
>>deciding if anybody is home.
>>
>
> That's true, and a disgusting strawman.
>
> Dr. Cheshire:
> "Based on my review of extensive medical records documenting Terri's care
> over the years, on my personal observation of Terri, and on my
> observations of Terri's responses in the many hours of videotapes taken
> in 2002, she demonstrates a number of behaviors I believe cast a
> reasonable doubt on the prior diagnosis of PVS. These include:
>
> http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schindler-schiavo-docs-links-page.html
> from the PDF "Affidavit of William Cheshire, Jr., MD 03-23-05"
>
> Thank you , David.
>
Yes but he made that conclusion after seeing a heavily edited video, and
only spending less than an hour with Ms. Shiavo. His published work has
been with TMJ and facial nerve problems, not with PVS or MCS. Its
somewhat out of his league.
Let me put it this way, would have an electrical engineer build a bridge?
Larry C. Lyons
> "Glenn" <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote in
>>news:Xns962578AF98...@68.12.19.6...>>>news:dford3-3ak2...@individual.net:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I, William Polk Cheshire, Jr., M.D., have personal knowledge of the
>>>>facts stated in this declaration and, if called as a witness, I
>>>>could and would testify competently thereto under oath. I declare
>>>>as follows:
>>>>
>>>>certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology.
>>>
>>>Terrifying.
>>>
>>>
>>>>In regard to my
>>>>educational background, I received an A.B. in biochemical sciences
>>>>from Princeton University, an M.A. in bioethics from Trinity
>>>>International University
>>>
>>>That explains quite a bit.
>>>
>>
>>Yes, that explains your lunacy. You just make sure you are seen only
>>by atheist doctors. You have my blessing.
>>
>>
>
>
> competent neurologist in the world, and who's relied on family videos--
> hear is pretty much impossible.
>
I did a search on Cheshire in scholar.google.com and this is what I found,
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=author:%22W+Cheshire%22&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&start=10&sa=N
and for the link challenged, http://tinyurl.com/3s23j
Most of his published work, other than the so-called bioethics stuff, is
on TMJ and facial nerves. Ms. Shiavo's condition isn't exactly his
specialization.
Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia
news:glennsheldon-yGl1e.49$ml6...@news.uswest.net:
If by conspiracy you mean something tacit or veiled, I'd say it's clear
that the "culture-of-lifers-(muslims-not-included)" for the most part are
neither.
>Them damn Christians,
Just the obnoxious ones, though those are the loudest to be sure.
Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia
news:glennsheldon-VDl1e.48$ml6...@news.uswest.net:
> I can't remember what feed, but a short clip of a video of Terri in
> bed was shown, where someone was in front of the bed out of sight of
> the camera, except for a shadow that moved across Terri and the bed,
> matched Terri's eye movement in the same direction and timing. No
> lapse in the video was apparent, and the "coincidence" was absolutely
> shocking. We all gasped at once, then talked about what we had each
> seen, which turned out to be the same for each of us.
Did you know that if you watch "Winnie the Pooh" you can see vaginas drawn
all over Mr. Owl's house? And if you play the "Short&Fat" song backwards,
it invokes Satan's name to curse jello?
Glenn
"Larry C. Lyons" <Larry...@someoneElse.Invalid> wrote in message
It seems I didn't find your claim that all PVS patients have EEG patterns
similar to jello was supported. You seem to want to overlook that.
>
> As for those so called misdiagnoses, if your also read the same article,
> you'll see that the authors noted that many of these so-called
> misdiagnosed patients were blind or deaf. Therefore visual or auditory
> tracking tests don't work.
Kind of hard to determine just what a patient can see or how well they do, if
they can't tell you, isn't it, expert.
>Later studies have shown than when such
> factors
What factors?
>are taken into account the misdiagnosis rate significantly
> drops. But given the behavioral tests, the EEG and the CT scans, the
> evidence is overwhemingly obvious that Ms. Shiavo has not higher
> cortical functions. Her brain is what's called decorticate - without a
> cortex.
Another bald ass claim stuck on the end of squash. Where do you people come
from???
>
> As for the jello analogy, I was pointing out that any indications of
> minimal activity can be artifactual.
Actually, I pointed that out.
>Simply put, the vibrations from the
> equipment are picked up by the EEG electrodes and recorded as a
> waveform. If these artifacts are not filted out they can be interpreted
> as EEG activity.
Apparently something is filtered out.
>Moreover our brains have a very similar consistency of
> jello. In the mid 70's Dutch researchers originally tried that
> experiment using gelatin and found some activity.
ROTF! You actually see a connection, or some reason for this malarkay, don't
you.
>So its possible to
> misdiagnose the other way as well, ascribing cognitive activity when the
> machine is only picking up outside vibrations.
>
So Terri's brain is like jello, PVC patients have similar EEGs, and Terri is
both braindead and in a Vegetative State. Wow!
In the absense of evidence, or should I say profusion of rhetoric, *you* pick up
on the "outside vibrations":
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:Y8pJKj0G0zEJ:www.vegetativestate.org/schmutzhard.doc+Persistent+vegetative+state+EEG&hl=en
Table 6: Clinica characteristics of Vegetative State = Apallic Syndrome
Self awareness absent
Sleep-wake rhythm intact
Motor function none, at least: no purposeful movement
Sensation of pain ? (presumably none)
Respiration normal
EEG activity abnormal, delta- theta slowing, no reaction to external stimuly
Cerebral metabolism reduced (<50%)
Prognosis quo ad rehabilitationem depending from the etiologic cause
Table 7: Clinical characteristics of brain death
Self awareness none
Sleep-wake rhythm absent
Motor function none
Sensation of pain none
Respiration none
EEG activity none, isoelectric line
Cerebral perfusion none
Cerebral metabolism none
Prognosis quo ad rehabilitationem none
Glenn
"Larry C. Lyons" <Larry...@someoneElse.Invalid> wrote in message
"Many hours of videotapes", boy.
>and only spending less than an hour with Ms. Shiavo.
Oh my, we missed the part where he reviewed Terri's medical records, including
tests and such. Tsk tsk. Oh, I didn't catch in his testimony where he says he
spent less than an hour with Terri. Perhaps you could at least provide a
reference once in a while, if not just "googledotcom"? But even if true, what of
it? Should he have spent the night?
>His published work has
> been with TMJ and facial nerve problems, not with PVS or MCS. Its
> somewhat out of his league.
Really. And your rant is supposed to be any more convincing or reasonable and
less dishonest than the majority of the other poster's to this thread, how
exactly?
>
> Let me put it this way, would have an electrical engineer build a bridge?
>
The strawboys are in bloom!
Glenn
> "Glenn" <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote in
> news:glennsheldon-VDl1e.48$ml6...@news.uswest.net:
>
> > I can't remember what feed, but a short clip of a video of Terri in
> > bed was shown, where someone was in front of the bed out of sight of
> > the camera, except for a shadow that moved across Terri and the bed,
> > matched Terri's eye movement in the same direction and timing. No
> > lapse in the video was apparent, and the "coincidence" was absolutely
> > shocking. We all gasped at once, then talked about what we had each
> > seen, which turned out to be the same for each of us.
>
> Did you know that if you watch "Winnie the Pooh" you can see vaginas drawn
> all over Mr. Owl's house? And if you play the "Short&Fat" song backwards,
> it invokes Satan's name to curse jello?
>
Glenn
hush-hush?
> >Them damn Christians,
>
> Just the obnoxious ones, though those are the loudest to be sure.
>
Those that are proposing a liberal democratic conspiracy, eh? Get your tinfoil
cap back on, your brain is frying.
Glenn
> "Glenn" <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote in
> news:glennsheldon-w5n1e.73$ml6...@news.uswest.net:
>
> > Perhaps you could at least provide a
> > reference once in a while, if not just "googledotcom"? But even if
> > true, what of it? Should he have spent the night?
>
Certainly is, just not the way you hoped.
>Weren't you on the "It's not my job to educate you"
> bandwagon two days ago,
Nope.
>and now you're complaining because others don't
> provide cites?
>
It wasn't a complaint, it was an observation, idiot.
>
> Enkidu AA#2165
> EAC Chaplin and ordained minister,
> ULC, Modesto, CA
>
> Heard on alt.atheism...
>
That might be part of your problem. I think incurable, though.
Stanley Friesen
>
>I have long contended that 'creationists' have no faith, because they
>*need* their religious beliefs to be scientifically supported. But the
>Terri Shaivo case surprises even me.
>
>The religious right, and our own pet creationists, look at a woman whose
>brain no longer allows her to talk, pray, or think, and instead of saying
>"let her go home to the Lord" say instead "She must be kept alive by
>artificial means."
I would say she has *already* gone home to her Lord - 15 years ago.
What is left is an empty hull.
>
>But then, why am I surprised? They have already revealed themselves to be
>liars and hypocrites.
>
>Maybe there is some rationale for their actions. Maybe they know in some
>corner of their being that *they* are in no fit state to meet their maker,
>and project that onto people, like Terri Shaivo, who as far as I know,
>never committed their sins of 'bearing false witness for the Lord'.
Those of us who are *honest* with ourselves all realize we are in no fit
shape to meet our maker. It is only by grace that we can qualify.
--
The peace of God be with you.
Stanley Friesen
Stanley Friesen
>
>And really you are down to the best argument you have: that Stanley Friesen
>is
>a moron because perhaps being overly cautious, Mr. Friesen dismissed his
>doctor
>"partly" for prescribing medication in the absence of an exam.
>Notwithstanding
>the fact that Mr. Friesen is always well-informed and unfailingly polite in
>his posts,
>you find it necessary to speculate that Mr. Friesen suffers from some sexual
>dysfunction.
>
You know, I sort of skimmed that part of his post.
Not that I am surprised that Glenn missed the point.
Glenn
your relationship with the doctor? I must have missed it.
Repost:
>Would you want a doctor that diagnoses you that way? No exam, no tests,
>just "looks" at you?
I actually terminated my relationship with a doctor partly because he
gave me a prescription just on my say-so over the phone. [In the case
my own diagnosis was in fact correct, but how did *he* know that?]
************************
He probably "knew that" because he was your doctor, had your medical records and
history, had seen you before, etc... Or is there something I missed, like going
on line to a supposed "doctor" to get viagra? Or do you mean that you claimed
you *think* you had some extraordinary condition that the doctor had no right to
prescribe medication for unless he did an examination and tests? What was the
condition? Martian hairbola?
Glenn
> >
> >And really you are down to the best argument you have: that Stanley Friesen
> >is
> >a moron because perhaps being overly cautious, Mr. Friesen dismissed his
> >doctor
> >"partly" for prescribing medication in the absence of an exam.
Nope. Friesen showed no indication of being overly cautious. Doctors routinely
prescribe medication for their patients without seeing them, and the concept in
itself is absolutely no indication that a doctor who does is a "bad man", or
deserving of being terminated.
> >Notwithstanding
> >the fact that Mr. Friesen is always well-informed and unfailingly polite in
> >his posts,
Sure, sure.
> >you find it necessary to speculate that Mr. Friesen suffers from some sexual
> >dysfunction.
Nope. I used viagra as an example that I thought most everyone could identify
with as a drug that can be obtained "over the phone" without a doctor's visit.
You seem to have found it necessary to use that accusation as an ad hominem.
> >
> You know, I sort of skimmed that part of his post.
>
> Not that I am surprised that Glenn missed the point.
>
Now that was real "polite".
david ford
worked from April 1995 to 11 August 1996
where Terri was:
Terri would try to say the word "pain"
when she was in discomfort, but it came
out more like "pay". She didn't say the
"n" sound very well.
Ref:
http://groups.google.co.in/groups?selm=dford3-3al49lF6ajhdbU1%40individual.net
On 18 March 05, Terri tried to say "I want to live," but couldn't say
the "n":
Vitadamo:
Mrs. Weller begged Terri to try to say, "I want to live."
Terri's eyes opened wide, she looked at Mrs. Weller with
great concentration and said, "Ahhhhhhh." Then, with
great effort, she screamed, "Waaaaaaaa" so loudly that....
Weller:
....she looked me square in the face, and with a look
of great concentration, she said, "Ahhhhhhh." Then,
seeming to summon up all the strength she had, she
virtually screamed, "Waaaaaaaa." She yelled so loudly
that....
Below are two declarations linked to from
http://www.terrisfight.net/
////////////////////////////////////////////////////
DECLARATION OF SUZANNE VITADAMO
STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF PINELLAS )
I, SUZANNE VITADAMO, sister of the Petitioner in the above-styled case,
hereby declare under penalty of perjury:
I visited with Terri at various times during the day on March 18, 2005,
the day her feeding tube was removed.
Terri was in good spirits that morning. My husband, Michael Vitadamo
and Terri's aunt, Claudia Tamarro, were in the room with myself and
Attorney Barbara Weller when Terri attempted to speak to Mrs. Weller. A
female Pinellas Park police office were standing at the door of Terri's
room.
Terri was sitting up in her lounge chair and Mrs. Weller and I were
sitting on her bed. My aunt was standing at the found of Terri's chair.
Mrs. Weller stood up and learned over Terri. She took her arms in her
hands. Mrs. Weller begged Terri to try to say, "I want to live."
Terri's eyes opened wide, she looked at Mrs. Weller with great
concentration and said, "Ahhhhhhh." Then, with great effort, she
screamed, "Waaaaaaaa" so loudly that Michael Vitadamo and the female
police officer who were then standing together outside Terri's door,
clearly heard her. Terri had a look of anguish on her face and she
seemed to be struggling hard, but was she could not complete the
sentence. Terri began to cry and Mrs. Weller and I began to stroke
Terri's face and hair to comfort her.
Mrs. Weller and I continued to visit and talk with Terri, along with
other family members who came and went in the room.
FURTHER YOUR DECLARANT SAYETH NOT.
I hereby declare, under penalty of perjury, that the foregoing is true
and accurate to the best of my knowledge and belief. Executed this 22nd
day of March, 2005, at Seminole, Florida.
SUZANNE VITADAMO
Sworn to and subscribed before me this 25th day of March, 2005.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////
DECLARATION OF BARBARA J. WELLER
STATE OF FLORIDA )
COUNTY OF PINELLAS )
I, BARBARA WELLER, Attorney for Respondents in the above-styled case,
hereby declare under penalty of perjury:
I visited with Terri at various times during the day on March 18, 2005,
the day her feeding tube was removed.
During the morning I was in the room with Terri and various members of
her family. Terri was in good spirits that morning. The mood in her
room was jovial, particularly around noontime, as we knew Congressional
attorneys were on the scene and many were working hard to save Terri's
life. For most of that time, I was visiting and talking with Terri
along with Terri's sister Suzanne Vitadamo, Suzanne's husband, and
Terri's aunt, who was visiting from New York to help provide support for
the family. A female Pinellas Park police office was stationed at the
door outside Terri's room.
Terri was sitting up in her lounge chair, dressed and looking alert and
well. Her feeding tube had been plugged in around 11 a.m. and we all
felt good that she was still being fed. Suzanne and I were talking,
joking, and laughing with Terri, telling her she was going to go to
Washington D.C. to testify before Congress, which meant that finally
Terri's husband Michael would be required to fix her wheelchair. After
that Suzanne could take Terri to the mall shopping and could wheel her
outdoors every day to feel the wind and sunshine on her face, something
she has not been able to do for more than five years.
At one point, I noticed Terri's window blinds were pulled down. I went
to the window to raise them so Terri could look at the beautiful garden
outside her window and see the sun after several days of rain. As
sunlight came into the room, Terri's eyes widened and she was obviously
very pleased.
Suzanne and I continued to talk and joke with Terri for probably an hour
or more. At one point Suzanne called Terri the bionic woman and I heard
Terri laugh out loud heartily. She laughed so hard that for the first
time I noticed the dimples in her cheeks.
The most dramatic event of this visit happened at one point when I was
sitting on Terri's bed next to Suzanne. Terri was sitting in her lounge
chair and her aunt was standing at the foot of the chair. I stood up
and learned over Terri. I took her arms in both of my hands. I said to
her, "Terri if you could only say 選 want to live' this whole thing
could be over today." I begged her to try very hard to say, "I want to
live." To my enormous shock and surprise, Terri's eyes opened wide, she
looked me square in the face, and with a look of great concentration,
she said, "Ahhhhhhh." Then, seeming to summon up all the strength she
had, she virtually screamed, "Waaaaaaaa." She yelled so loudly that
Michael Vitadamo, Suzanne's husband, and the female police officer who
were then standing together outside Terri's door, clearly heard her. At
that point, Terri had a look of anguish on her face that I had never
seen before and she seemed to be struggling hard, but was unable to
complete the sentence. She became very frustrated and began to cry. I
was horrified that I was obviously causing Terri so much anguish.
Suzanne and I began to stroke Terri's face and hair to comfort her. I
told Terri I was very sorry. It had not been my intention to upset her
so much. Suzanne and I assured Terri that her efforts were much
appreciated and that she did not need to try to say anything more. I
promised Terri I would tell the world that she had tried to say, "I want
to live."
Suzanne and I continued to visit and talk with Terri, along with other
family members who came and went in the room, until about 2:00 p.m.
when we were all told to leave after Judge Greer denied yet another
motion for stay and ordered the removal of the feeding tube to proceed.
As we left the room, the female police officer outside the door was
valiantly attempting to keep from crying.
About four in the afternoon, several hours after the feeding tube was
removed, I returned to Terri's room. By that time she was alone except
for a male police officer now standing inside the door. When I entered
the room and began to speak to her, Terri started to cry and tried to
speak to me immediately. It was one of the most helpless feelings I
have ever had. Terri was looking very melancholy at that point and I
had the sense she was very upset that we had told her things were going
to get better, but instead, they were obviously getting worse. I had
previously had the same feeling when my own daughter was a baby who was
hospitalized and was crying and looking to me to rescue her from her
hospital crib, something I could not do. While I was in the room with
Terri for the next half hour or so, several other friends came to visit
and I did a few press interviews sitting right next to Terri. I again
raised her window shade, which had again been pulled down, so Terri
could at least see the garden and the sunshine from her lounge chair. I
also turned the radio on in her room before I left so that when she was
alone, she would at least have some music for comfort.
Just before I left the room, I leaned over Terri and spoke right into
her ear. I told her I was very sorry I had not been able to stop the
feeding tube from being taken out and I was very sorry I had to leave
her alone. But I reminded her that Jesus would stay right by her side
even when no one else was there with her. When I mentioned Jesus' Name,
Terri again laughed out loud. She became very agitated and began loudly
trying to speak to me again. As Terri continued to laugh and try to
speak, I quietly prayed in her ear, kissed her, placed her in Jesus'
care, and left the room.
FURTHER YOUR DECLARANT SAYETH NOT.
I hereby declare, under penalty of perjury, that the foregoing is true
and accurate to the best of my knowledge and belief. Executed this 22nd
day of March, 2005, at Seminole, Florida.
BARBARA J. WELLER
Sworn to and subscribed before me this 25th day of March, 2005.
R. Tang
david ford <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote:
>December 2003 Carla Sauer Iyer, who
>worked from April 1995 to 11 August 1996
>where Terri was:
> Terri would try to say the word "pain"
> when she was in discomfort, but it came
> out more like "pay". She didn't say the
> "n" sound very well.
Yeah, right. And she waited seven years to say this.
No matter how many you repeat this, it STILL ain't credible. And
it won't gain credibility no matter how many times you repeat it.
--
-
-Roger Tang, gwan...@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
- Editor, Asian American Theatre Revue [NEW URL][Yes, it IS new]
- http://www.aatrevue.com
Deadrat
"Glenn" <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote in message
>
> "Deadrat" <no...@none.non> wrote in message
> news:3hk1e.14652$DW....@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "Glenn" <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote in message
> > > > "Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-a...@org.webmaster> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >Except he hasn't examined her, hasn't run any tests, and hasn't
been
> > > > >around long. He basically went to "see" her once and watched
videos.
> > > > >
> > > > >Would you want a doctor that diagnoses you that way? No exam, no
tests,
> > > > >just "looks" at you?
> > >
> > >
> > > Dr. Cheshire: "Based on my review of extensive medical records
documenting
> > > Terri's care
> > > over the years, on my personal observation of Terri, and on my
> > > observations of Terri's responses in the many hours of videotapes
taken
> > > in 2002, she demonstrates a number of behaviors I believe cast a
> > > reasonable doubt on the prior diagnosis of PVS."
> > >
personal
> > > observation *is* part of neurological examination, as is review of
> > existing
> > > tests.
> > >
> >
> > Are you deliberately missing the point? Sure observation is part of a
> > neurological exam, but no competent neurologist makes a diagnosis
> > like this solely on the basis of observation and three year old videos.
> >
> Of course not, but neurological examination is a very important, and
critical,
> element in a diagnosis. And for the third time you have ignored, and
omitted (I
> think, intentionally), the part where the neurologist includes "Based on
my
> review of extensive medical records documenting Terri's care over the
> Terri's medical records and "care" would include prior tests, observations
and
> evaluations, which makes your "solely on the basis of" a misleading
statement,
> at best.
>
Sorry. I should have included his review of past records. But the point
remains.
He has made a diagnosis on TS's condition *now*, the diagnosis is at odds
with
many other opinions, and whatever contradictory things he thinks he has
found
in the records, there is also plenty of evidence to show that she doesn't
have a
cerebral cortex and hasn't for some time. Doesn't mean he's wrong, of
course.
But it does mean that the diagnosis is suspect without further, current
evidence.
Deadrat
> Snipping long posts from morons.
>
Douglas Berry
<glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> drained his beer, leaned back in the
alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
>I don't see any problem with getting a divorce, if Michael wanted to release
>guardianship and what's left of the trust. The courts have ruled essentially
>that Terri will never recover, and Michael has a right to get on with his life.
I find it amusing that the Christians, who always scream about easy
divorce, no support it whern it suits their purposes.
The Schaivos are Catholic, and were married in the Catholic Church.
"What God has joined together let no man tear asunder." Michael is
honoring that covenant, and it drives you rightwads *nuts*
>> but if the courts have ruled that she is "persistently vegetative",
>> there must be a way to surrender guardianship to her parents or to the
>> State.
>
>That would only take about an hour, with Michael putting his name on a piece of
>paper. But if he did, he's lose inheritance to the balance of Terri's trust
>money.
The trust money is gone. Spent in Terri's care.
>> seen from here, it looks as if the judges were right, but that the
>> decision is too cruel to be enforced.
>>
>I don't think the "judges were right", I think they have caused anguish for
>years.
So, every judge, state and federal, at each level, over twenty so far,
have ALL been wrong?
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
Glenn
"Deadrat" <no...@none.non> wrote in message
Glenn
"Douglas Berry" <pengu...@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:3gic41lq6llttknf1...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:28:04 -0700, "Glenn"
> <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> drained his beer, leaned back in the
> alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
>
> >I don't see any problem with getting a divorce, if Michael wanted to release
> >guardianship and what's left of the trust. The courts have ruled essentially
> >that Terri will never recover, and Michael has a right to get on with his
life.
>
> I find it amusing that the Christians, who always scream about easy
> divorce, no support it whern it suits their purposes.
>
> The Schaivos are Catholic, and were married in the Catholic Church.
> "What God has joined together let no man tear asunder." Michael is
> honoring that covenant, and it drives you rightwads *nuts*
>
know, and neither do you, what Michael is "honoring". It appears to me that he
is not honoring Terri by allowing her all the tests her family wants before he
ends her life. He sure as hell isn't "honoring thy mother and thy father."
Deadrat
"Glenn" <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote in message
>
> "Stanley Friesen" <sar...@friesen.net> wrote in message
> news:gt3c419c0e35toclk...@4ax.com...
> > "Deadrat" <no...@none.non> wrote:
> > >
> > >And really you are down to the best argument you have: that Stanley
Friesen
> > >is
> > >a moron because perhaps being overly cautious, Mr. Friesen dismissed
his
> > >doctor
> > >"partly" for prescribing medication in the absence of an exam.
>
> Nope. Friesen showed no indication of being overly cautious. Doctors
routinely
> prescribe medication for their patients without seeing them, and the
concept in
> itself is absolutely no indication that a doctor who does is a "bad man",
or
> deserving of being terminated.
Do you read what other people write before you respond? I ask because I've
had this problem with you before. Yes, doctors routinely prescribe
medication
over the phone, and it doesn't make the doctor who does a "bad man." No one
said otherwise. It is slightly more dangerous than prescribing only after
an exam.
(Do you understand why?) Doubting his doctor's judgment (partly) based on
a practice that is only slightly more dangerous (and in his particular case,
which
led to a sound medical decision), Mr. Friesen switched doctors. That makes
him
possibly overly cautious. What don't you understand about this?
>
> > >Notwithstanding
> > >the fact that Mr. Friesen is always well-informed and unfailingly
polite in
> > >his posts,
>
> Sure, sure.
>
You disagree? How about a quote from one of Mr. Friesen's posts in
which he called you (or anyone, for that matter) any of the names you
routinely call others?
> > >you find it necessary to speculate that Mr. Friesen suffers from some
sexual
> > >dysfunction.
>
> Nope. I used viagra as an example that I thought most everyone could
identify
> with as a drug that can be obtained "over the phone" without a doctor's
visit.
> You seem to have found it necessary to use that accusation as an ad
hominem.
>
Why, yes I did. Because it's a snide, sniggering, off-point suggestion.
Let me
refresh your memory:
what really happened might have been
that he wanted some viagra, so he went on line to a "doctor" and got
some.
(Oh, and note the quotes around doctor. Heh, heh. See Stan went to some
quack to get his viagra fix. Wink,wink,nudge,nudge. Say No More!)
What difference does it make what medication Mr. Friesen obtained? Viagra
is not
for those with hypertension. If that were the drug in question, the doctor
couldn't
have take a blood pressure over the phone, and that still would have
bothered
Mr. Friesen. So what?
> > >
> > You know, I sort of skimmed that part of his post.
> >
> > Not that I am surprised that Glenn missed the point.
> >
> Now that was real "polite".
>
Oh, boohoo. This from a guy who can't respond to anyone who disagrees with
him without using
epithets. And you did miss the point. Again.
Deadrat
Mark VandeWettering
On 2005-03-26, Glenn <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> wrote:
>> But then, why am I surprised? They have already revealed themselves to be
>> liars and hypocrites.
>
> Then you're a creationist, because you're a liar and a hypocrite.
:-)
Mark VandeWettering
>
> Bob Dog wrote:
>> david ford <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
> news:<dford3-3ak2...@individual.net>...
>>
>> Yet another opportunistic vulture, hoping to feed off her corpse
>> and get some of the money being tossed at Schiavo's bed fifteen
>> years after it should have been.
>>
>> If anyone interest in the facts wants to know them, read the
>> words of Jay Wolfson, both a doctor and lawyer, and formerly the
>> court appointed (read: unbiased) guardian of Terri Schiavo.
>>
>> http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7286506/
>>
>>
>> Bob Dog
>
> I have spent some time on the page you quoted, but I can't see why you
> quoted it.
>
> the question is why her husband would not simply accept some terms of
> divorce so that her parents would become her guardians.
If my wife had expressed her wishes as to her care with me as her husband,
I would not reliquish those responsibilities to anyone for any reason.
Mark
Mark VandeWettering
His duty is first to his wife, not to his parents. He is honoring Terri
by carrying out her desires in this final, serious matter.
Mark
Glenn
"Deadrat" <no...@none.non> wrote in message
Only that you apparently think that proves some point. Stanley didn't say all
this, you did. Don't you read what others write?
>
> >
> > > >Notwithstanding
> > > >the fact that Mr. Friesen is always well-informed and unfailingly
> polite in
> > > >his posts,
> >
> > Sure, sure.
> >
>
> You disagree? How about a quote from one of Mr. Friesen's posts in
> which he called you (or anyone, for that matter) any of the names you
> routinely call others?
Ah, we are restricting insults to name calling. Duh, okay, ah dun no eny beter.
>
> > > >you find it necessary to speculate that Mr. Friesen suffers from some
> sexual
> > > >dysfunction.
> >
> > Nope. I used viagra as an example that I thought most everyone could
> identify
> > with as a drug that can be obtained "over the phone" without a doctor's
> visit.
> > You seem to have found it necessary to use that accusation as an ad
> hominem.
> >
>
> Why, yes I did. Because it's a snide, sniggering, off-point suggestion.
So you feel you have a reason to be insulting. How quaint an idea.
> Let me
> refresh your memory:
>
> what really happened might have been
> that he wanted some viagra, so he went on line to a "doctor" and got
> some.
>
> (Oh, and note the quotes around doctor. Heh, heh. See Stan went to some
> quack to get his viagra fix. Wink,wink,nudge,nudge. Say No More!)
>
> What difference does it make what medication Mr. Friesen obtained? Viagra
> is not
> for those with hypertension. If that were the drug in question, the doctor
> couldn't
> have take a blood pressure over the phone, and that still would have
> bothered
> Mr. Friesen. So what?
Are you accusing Stanley of hypertension? He certainly didn't mention it in the
post I responded to.
>
> > > >
> > > You know, I sort of skimmed that part of his post.
> > >
> > > Not that I am surprised that Glenn missed the point.
> > >
> > Now that was real "polite".
> >
>
> Oh, boohoo. This from a guy who can't respond to anyone who disagrees with
> him without using
> epithets. And you did miss the point. Again.
>
Ah, the elusive point.
cant...@dieznet.com
Douglas Berry wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:28:04 -0700, "Glenn"
> <glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> drained his beer, leaned back in the
> alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
>
> >I don't see any problem with getting a divorce,
you don't!
but this option has not even been mentioned.
> >if Michael wanted to release
> >guardianship and what's left of the trust. The courts have ruled
essentially
> >that Terri will never recover, and Michael has a right to get on
with his life.
>
> I find it amusing that the Christians, who always scream about easy
> divorce,
I do not know about Christians in general, but Catholics, instead of
screaming, try an annulment
> no support it whern it suits their purposes.
>
> The Schaivos are Catholic, and were married in the Catholic Church.
> "What God has joined together let no man tear asunder." Michael is
> honoring that covenant,
that is not what he says!
he says he wants to honor her wish. all his efforts are to honor her
wish.
> and it drives you rightwads *nuts*.
>
> >> but if the courts have ruled that she is "persistently
vegetative",
> >> there must be a way to surrender guardianship to her parents or to
the
> >> State.
> >
> >That would only take about an hour, with Michael putting his name on
a piece of
> >paper. But if he did, he's lose inheritance to the balance of
Terri's trust
> >money.
>
> The trust money is gone. Spent in Terri's care.
I have not seen anything about that either. it is typical for the money
question not to be mentioned.
>
> >> see n from here, it looks as if the judges were right, but that
the
> >> decision is too cruel to be enforced.
> >>
> >I don't think the "judges were right", I think they have caused
anguish for
> >years.
but the judges cannot decide freely. they have to decide according to
the law and after listening to the lawyers.
maybe the Schindlers had bad lawyers.
anyway, according to the polls, most people in the US seem to agree
with the the judges.
Pithecanthropus Erectus
>
>>I find it amusing that the Christians, who always scream about easy
>>divorce, no support it whern it suits their purposes.
>>
>>The Schaivos are Catholic, and were married in the Catholic Church.
>>"What God has joined together let no man tear asunder." Michael is
>>honoring that covenant, and it drives you rightwads *nuts*
>>
>
> You moron, I've been divorced,
Why am I not surprised?
and I'm not screaming any such thing. I don't
> know, and neither do you, what Michael is "honoring". It appears to me that he
> is not honoring Terri by allowing her all the tests her family wants before he
> ends her life. He sure as hell isn't "honoring thy mother and thy father."
>
How would prolonging her life by continuously repeating tests that have
not been disputed by qualified medical personnnel be honoring her?
They aren't his mother and father, anyway.
--
"God Forbid we should actually test anything."
Creationism
"The curses of Deuteronomy 28 will plague America until we return to God
(Ps 9:17). Wealth and military might are not substitutes for God-given
character and blessing. Freedom comes, not from democracy, but Jesus
Christ. The outline below lists our wars & keys to victory. May God lead
us in the strategic and tactical prayers that are required!"
Capitol Hill Action Network, 2005
Glenn
<cant...@dieznet.com> wrote in message
news:1111910436....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Most people in the US seem to be running for a copy of a living will to fill out
and record, and many will likely will do so very carefully.
Glenn
"Pithecanthropus Erectus" <tuibgu...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:tOWdneKG6tE...@comcast.com...
> Glenn wrote:
>
> >
> >>I find it amusing that the Christians, who always scream about easy
> >>divorce, no support it whern it suits their purposes.
> >>
> >>The Schaivos are Catholic, and were married in the Catholic Church.
> >>"What God has joined together let no man tear asunder." Michael is
> >>honoring that covenant, and it drives you rightwads *nuts*
> >>
> >
> > You moron, I've been divorced,
>
> Why am I not surprised?
>
> and I'm not screaming any such thing. I don't
> > know, and neither do you, what Michael is "honoring". It appears to me that
he
> > is not honoring Terri by allowing her all the tests her family wants before
he
> > ends her life. He sure as hell isn't "honoring thy mother and thy father."
> >
>
> How would prolonging her life by continuously repeating tests that have
> not been disputed by qualified medical personnnel be honoring her?
>
> They aren't his mother and father, anyway.
>
Uh, they are Terri's mother and father, wise one.
shane
>>
>>
>>>Carl Kaufmann <cwkau...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>david ford wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The affidavit extracts below demonstrate the falsity of the old media's
>>>>>erroneous allegation that 'no one is home' in Terri Schindler Schiavo.
>>>>>Also, Terri can anticipate and feel pain.
>>>>>A U.S. judiciary run amok and a shameless American Criminal Liberties
>>>>>Union are intent on murdering via starvation an innocent/ guiltless and
>>>>>defenseless woman.
>>>>>Decency demands that this unjustified, court-imposed death sentence on
>>>>>Terri Schindler Schiavo be stopped.
>>>>
>>>>No, it demonstrates one doctor's opinion. A doctor who has NOT
>>>>examined the patient, and who has a clear pre-existing bias.
>>>>
>>>
>>>And who seems to be ignorant of the sorts of *apparently* "directed"
>>>behavior can be generated by the brainstem under certain conditions.
>>
>>
>>The doctor DID examine the patient, you moron. And he doesn't "seem to be"
>>ignorant of anything.
>>
>>
>>>The basic reality is that movement per se is actually a poor basis for
>>>deciding if anybody is home.
>>>
>>
>>That's true, and a disgusting strawman.
>>
>>"Based on my review of extensive medical records documenting Terri's care
>>over the years, on my personal observation of Terri, and on my
>>observations of Terri's responses in the many hours of videotapes taken
>>in 2002, she demonstrates a number of behaviors I believe cast a
>>1. Her behavior is frequently context-specific."
>>
>>Read the rest "From
>>http://www.hospicepatients.org/terri-schindler-schiavo-docs-links-page.html
>>from the PDF "Affidavit of William Cheshire, Jr., MD 03-23-05"
>>
>>Thank you , David.
>>
>
>
> only spending less than an hour with Ms. Shiavo. His published work has
> somewhat out of his league.
>
>
>
Glenn probably would, if the civil engineer was an atheist and the
electrical engineer a thesit.
--
shane
And the truth shall set you free.
rjk...@gmail.com
what he feels" is right for a wife. "
Can we quote you on this?
Rodjk #613
shane
> Douglas Berry wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:28:04 -0700, "Glenn"
>><glenns...@SPAMqwest.net> drained his beer, leaned back in the
>>alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
>>
>>
>>>I don't see any problem with getting a divorce,
>
>
> you don't!
>
> but this option has not even been mentioned.
>
>
>>>if Michael wanted to release
>>>guardianship and what's left of the trust. The courts have ruled
>
> essentially
>
>>>that Terri will never recover, and Michael has a right to get on
>
> with his life.
>
>>I find it amusing that the Christians, who always scream about easy
>>divorce,
>
>
> I do not know about Christians in general, but Catholics, instead of
> screaming, try an annulment
>
>
>>no support it whern it suits their purposes.
>>
>>The Schaivos are Catholic, and were married in the Catholic Church.
>>"What God has joined together let no man tear asunder." Michael is
>>honoring that covenant,
>
>
> that is not what he says!
>
> he says he wants to honor her wish. all his efforts are to honor her
> wish.
I think you have joined two points here into one. The previous poster
was speaking of the reason he will not divorce her, thus he is honouring
the marriage covenant he made with her by not divorcing her; he is also
honouring her wishes by seeking to end the tragedy which is her current
and future life.
John Baker
wrote:
<massive snippage>
As usual, David, you demonstrate that facts are something with which
you have little familiarity.
shane
> "david ford" <dfo...@gl.umbc.edu> wrote in message
> news:dford3-3am2...@individual.net...
>
>>August 2003 Alexander Gimon affidavit
>
>
> Thanks again for another reference, David. Although I'm not an expert by any
> means, and understanding that short video bytes from a news story couldn't be
> used as evidence, I'll relate a story that three people watching news last night
> saw and all agreed on, which may be an example that damages public opinion of
> the validity of the decision to kill Terri.
No-one is going to kill her. No active measures are going to be taken to
end her life. Here in Australia, you cannot be charged with
murder/manslaughter for a refusal to administer first aid, even if you
are trained. Now I understand that the situations are vastly different,
but underlying that is a principle that allowing natural processes to
take place in not normally considered murder.
Further to that point, what a demonstration of how little faith you
have. If your god does not want her to die, nothing done by humans will
bring it about. If she does die it is obviously gods will. The lesson of
Gamaliel.
> I can't remember what feed, but a short clip of a video of Terri in bed was
> shown, where someone was in front of the bed out of sight of the camera, except
> for a shadow that moved across Terri and the bed, matched Terri's eye movement
> in the same direction and timing. No lapse in the video was apparent, and the
> "coincidence" was absolutely shocking. We all gasped at once, then talked about
> what we had each seen, which turned out to be the same for each of us. It could
> have been a coincidence, but it just as you would expect of someone who is
> tracking something in their vision, such as a shadow crossing their path (or the
> person making the shadow), from one side to the other, then glancing downward.
>
>>Highlights/ what I underlined when reading it:
>>
>>private practice of clinical neuropsychology
>>....
>>Ph.D. from Yeshiva University
>>....
>>During my career as a clinical neuropsychologist , I have personally
>>evaluated approximately eleven patients with a clinical profile similar
>>to that of Terri Schiavo.
>>....
>>5. I have not physically examined Terri Schiavo; however, I have
>>studied the video clips presented at the October 2002 Medical
>>Evidentiary Hearing.
>>....
>>reacting through facial expression necessarily involves the conscious mind.
>>....
>>H 07 During a return visit from her mother, Terri greeted her by
>>speaking the word "Hi".
>>....
>>After Terri's mother enters the room, Terri greets her by speaking the
>>word "Hi," and makes good eye movement toward her.
>>....
>>Later, when her father mentions a humorous event from her childhood, she
>>rolls her eyes and laughs. This demonstrates a quality indicative of a
>>memory shared interpersonally with an appropriate response.
>>....
>>7. The above behaviors are all indicative of cognition and (with the
>>exception of pupil dilation) are volitional in nature. They are
>>completely inconsistent with a diagnosis of vegetative state. Terri's
>>condition cannot be considered persistent because she has obviously
>>improved over the term of her disability, despite the fact that she has
>>not received physical therapy, speech therapy, cognitive therapy or
>>occupational / recreational therapy in many years.
>>....
>>8. I have also reviewed an audio recording made on November 29, 2002.
>>....
>>Mr. Schindler asks Terri if she can smile for him, to which she
>>responds by saying "yeah".
>>....
>>Of course, Mr. Schindler is a lay person and cannot be expected to
>>understand the finer points of working with a disabled person such as
>>Terri. Under normal circumstances, Terri would receive the complete
>>range of therapies, including physical and occupational, recreational,
>>cognitive and speech-language therapy, and her family would become more
>>skillful in her care through involvement in her treatment, but here they
>>have been deprived of those experiences.
>>....
>>she does not vocalize randomly
>>....
>>Mr. Schindler again observes that Terri smiles and appears wide-eyed,
>>indicating her consistent pleasure at being provided stimulation. She
>>exhibits spontaneous laughter.
>>....
>>the brain has "plasticity" and can be stimulated, and new neural
>>(dendrite) connectors can be formed
>>....
>>16. Neuroaerobics is a mode of treatment whereby specific tasks are
>>used to stimulate specific parts of the brain and specific brain
>>functions, and are repeated or exercised for maximum effect.
>>....
>>In each case increased neural pathways are built and cognitive ability
>>is enhanced through repeated effort.
>>....
>>17. It is my opinion that Mrs. Schiavo is not in a persistent
>>vegetative state. Terri exhibits extensive and varied purposeful
>>reactions to her environment. These behaviors are particularly
>>pronounced in interactions with her family.
>>....
>>18. Depriving brain-damaged patients of medical, physical,
>>occupational, recreational and speech-language therapy is both neglect
>>and abusive.
>>
>>///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>>From
>>
>
> http://www.hospicepatients.org/alexander-t-gimon-phd-08-03-affidavit-re-terri-schiavo.html
>
>>_AFFIDAVIT_
>>
>>STATE OF FLORIDA )
>>
>>COUNTY OF PINELLAS )
>>
>>BEFORE ME the undersigned authority personally appeared Alexander T.
>>Gimon, Ph.D., who being first duly sworn, deposes and says:
>>
>>1. My name is Alexander T. Gimon, Ph.D. I am over the age of eighteen
>>years of age. I am engaged in the private practice of clinical
>>neuropsychology, and have been so continuously since 1983. I work with
>>patients, both brain injured and general populations.
>>
>>2. I took my Ph.D. from Yeshiva University in 1973 and had a fellowship
>>from NIMH and a Clinical & Research Internship. As a Ph.D. candidate, I
>>worked as a Senior Research Associate at Harvard University's Research
>>Institute for Educational Problems and have had other extensive
>>experience in special education and various facets of the practice of
>>psychology. My full curriculum vitae is attached.
>>
>>3. Clinical neuropsychology is a specialty profession that focuses on
>>brain functioning. A clinical neuropsychologist is a licensed
>>psychologist with expertise in how behavior and skills are related to
>>brain structures and systems. In clinical neuropsychology, brain
>>function is evaluated by the measurement of specific behavioral markers
>>through standardized testing and careful observation.
>>
>>4. In my practice, I work with many brain injured patients, and I am
>>familiar with states of impairment known as coma, coma-like, minimally
>>conscious and persistent vegetative state. As a part of my professional
>>practice, I evaluate the brain function of patients whose differential
>>diagnosis include such conditions. During my career as a clinical
>>neuropsychologist , I have personally evaluated approximately eleven
>>patients with a clinical profile similar to that of Terri Schiavo.
>>
>>5. I have not physically examined Terri Schiavo; however, I have
>>studied the video clips presented at the October 2002 Medical
>>Evidentiary Hearing. The observations that follow are all within the
>>parameters of the profession of clinical neuropsychology, and are
>>similar to the observations that I am called upon to make regularly in
>>the course of evaluating patients as a clinical neuropsychologist. All
>>conclusions are based on standards used in the clinical neuropsychology
>>profession in the evaluation and treatment of patients such as Theresa
>>Schiavo.
>>
>>6. Based on my experience and my observations, Mrs. Schiavo is clearly
>>able to respond cognitively to environmental stimulii. She interacts
>>verbally and motorically with her mother and with doctors giving verbal
>>instructions. It is clear on its face that she has brain matter for
>>these functions, but has been deprived of appropriate therapy and
>>stimulation. This is documented in the following behaviors noted in the
>>following video segments:
>>
>>H 01 (Examination of Dr. Hammesfahr 9/3/02) - This segment begins with
>>Terri's mother entering the room and addressing Terri. Terri's face
>>goes from no expression, which is her typical baseline in the absence of
>>specific stimulii, to a smile with turned-up corners and eyes opening
>>wider. With the smile she made a sound from the throat and slightly
>>closed lips. Her expression at that point is indicative of recognition
>>of her mother and a vocalization which appears to be specific to her
>>mother. Her eyes focused on her mother's face with eye contact with
>>her. This is indicative of cognitive recognition with an appropriate
>>vocal expressive gesture.
>>
>>H 02 In this sequence Terri's mother told Terri she was going to play
>>music. The volume had been left on high, and when the music began it
>>caused a startle response. Later Terri laughs during the music, but it
>>is not clear whether it is in recognition of the song or is prompted by
>>her mother's voice.
>>
>>H 03 Manipulation of Terri's left arm. Terri responded to the doctor
>>through eye focusing and turning her head toward the massage and
>>stretching. She was able to hold the focus for an extended period of
>>time, which indicates interaction and involvement with both the
>>therapist and the therapy, as well as the ability to direct and hold her
>>attention for a substantial period of time.
>>
>>H 04 Facial and head response to arm stimulation. When raised even
>>with her head, Terri gave a slight grimace of pain. This indicates
>>sensorium between her conscious mind and that extremity. If the only
>>reaction involved the extremity which was the source of the pain, it
>>could be argued that this was a reflex, but reacting through facial
>>expression necessarily involves the conscious mind.
>>
>>H 05 Continued arm movement with minimal pain response (possible
>>peripheral nerve atrophy). During the manipulation, the doctor asked
>>Terri to open her eyes, and then to look at her mother. She responded
>>well with slow movements. Terri was also able to hold the focus on her
>>mother.
>>
>>H 06 A swab was applied to Terri's lips, and she responded to the touch
>>and registered her displeasure by frowning and turning her head away.
>>
>>H 07 During a return visit from her mother, Terri greeted her by
>>speaking the word "Hi".
>>
>>H 08 Dr. Hammesfahr introduced a balloon and asked her to look at it.
>> Terri successfully accomplished this task.
>>
>>H 10 Eye examination. Terri responded to being asked to open her eyes
>>and had effective pupil dilation to light.
>>
>>C 01 (Examination of Dr. Cranford on July 9, 2002) - After Terri's
>>mother enters the room, Terri greets her by speaking the word "Hi," and
>>makes good eye movement toward her. Later Dr. Cranford touches Terri's
>>face much in the same manner as her mother typically does. Terri
>>responds to this stimulation initially by smiling, but the smile is not
>>sustained, and it is not equivalent to her response to her mother.
>>
>>M 02 and M 03 (Examination of Dr. Maxfield 9/4/02) - When Terri's
>>father moves a balloon and a box of bright lights, Terri is presented
>>with too much stimulation and turns her head away. Later, when her
>>father mentions a humorous event from her childhood, she rolls her eyes
>>and laughs. This demonstrates a quality indicative of a memory shared
>>interpersonally with an appropriate response.
>>
>>7. The above behaviors are all indicative of cognition and (with the
>>exception of pupil dilation) are volitional in nature. They are
>>completely inconsistent with a diagnosis of vegetative state. Terri's
>>condition cannot be considered persistent because she has obviously
>>improved over the term of her disability, despite the fact that she has
>>not received physical therapy, speech therapy, cognitive therapy or
>>occupational / recreational therapy in many years.
>>
>>8. I have also reviewed an audio recording made on November 29, 2002.
>>In this tape, recorded by Terri's father Robert Schindler in Terri's
>>room at Hospice, Terri interacts with her father as well as several
>>people on the telephone, including Terri's mother Mary Schindler, while
>>Robert Schindler holds the phone to Terri's ear. Terri's voice is
>>clearly audible on the tape, along with Robert Schindler's
>>contemporaneous descriptions of her physical behaviors, although the
>>speaking, singing and playing of music on the phone is not audible.
>>
>>9. At the beginning of the recording, Robert Schindler greets Terri and
>>asks how she is. Terri responds, albeit with a slight delay, with a
>>throaty sound. Mr. Schindler asks Terri if she can smile for him, to
>>which she responds by saying "yeah". He then asks how she is doing, and
>>Terri changes tone and inflection to a sound which is apparently
>>specific to her father.
>>
>>10. Early in the recording Terri responds to a number of Mr.
>>Schindler's requests by saying the word "yeah," including when he asks
>>her to "say something to me," when he asks "can you say hi," and when he
>>asks if something is hurting her. When Mr. Schindler made the repeated
>>inquiry about something hurting her, listing various body parts that
>>might hurt, he assumes that she understands all the body-part names
>>(arm, leg, and the tease "elbowgan"), which may or may not be true.
>>During this listing Terri's voice becomes soft and more gutteral, then
>>makes little or no response, which is ambiguous, in that it may be taken
>>to be a negative response or may mean that she did not understand the
>>word employed. By contrast, Dr. Hammesfahr, in referring to various
>>limbs, combines speaking the name with directing her attention there by
>>touch, facilitating her understanding. Of course, Mr. Schindler is a
>>lay person and cannot be expected to understand the finer points of
>>working with a disabled person such as Terri. Under normal
>>circumstances, Terri would receive the complete range of therapies,
>>including physical and occupational, recreational, cognitive and
>>speech-language therapy, and her family would become more skillful in
>>her care through involvement in her treatment, but here they have been
>>deprived of those experiences.
>>
>>11. Later in the recording there are several instances where Terri is
>>apparently receiving no stimulation, and Terri remains quiet. This
>>demonstrates that she does not vocalize randomly, as is also
>>demonstrated by the several extended lengths of time during the
>>Hammesfahr examination in which Terri remains quiet.
>>
>>12. During the first interval in which Terri is listening to
>>stimulation on the telephone, Mr. Schindler observes that "there is a
>>smile on your face," which is accompanied by softer sounds from Terri,
>>each of which indicate her pleasure at the stimulation being provided by
>>a clearly familiar voice. Terri's soft responses while on the phone
>>continue. Her laughter is more directed. Terri's sounds are not
>>random, nor are they repetitive. Again Terri uses the word "yeah" a
>>number of times. Mr. Schindler again observes that Terri smiles and
>>appears wide-eyed, indicating her consistent pleasure at being provided
>>stimulation. She exhibits spontaneous laughter. Later Terri appears to
>>be quiet and relaxed, the major stimulation having passed. This
>>demonstrates a relaxation and resting after stimulation of a pleasing
>>nature.
>>
>>13. On the second side of the recording, Mr. Schindler repeatedly asks
>>Terri if she wants him to call her mother on the phone. She responds
>>immediately to the question with a short sound, like an "ah" sound,
>>which is a shortened version of "ah-hah." This is a typical mode of
>>conversational response when interacting with a person who is well known
>>and with whom she enjoys an easy comfort level. Mr. Schindler repeats
>>the question in slightly different fashion, perhaps in an effort to
>>elicit as much speech from Terri as possible. Terri vocalizes in
>>response consistently during this question, indicating the level of her
>>desire to speak to her mother, but when Mr. Schindler indicates that he
>>will call Mrs. Schindler, Terri becomes quiet and patient while he
>>dials the phone. When there is a delay in getting through to Mary
>>Schindler, Terri begins vocalizing again, and Mr. Schindler apparently
>>perceives the need to reassure Terri that he is trying to get her mother
>>on the phone. When Mrs. Schindler is finally reached and Mr.
>>Schindler puts Terri on the phone with her mother, Terri becomes very
>>quiet as she listens attentively. As the conversation progresses, Terri
>>periodically responds with an "uh-huh" sound, which repeats, but at
>>varying rather than regular time intervals, as is natural in conversation.
>>
>>14. The Schindler family relates that, during the interval immediately
>>after the October, 2002 hearing held in this case and the time of this
>>recording, that, having been inspired by the interactions noted in the
>>Hammesfahr examination, they undertook to encourage Terri to vocalize
>>more, and encouraged her to say the word "yeah" as a way of answering
>>"yes." Although they had previously heard Terri use the "uh-huh" and
>>"ugh-ugh" sounds, they had never heard her say "yeah" since her
>>collapse. At the time of the recording, Terri clearly had added this
>>word to her repertoire, and uses it meaningfully to answer questions,
>>although there is no basis to conclude that she is able to answer in the
>>affirmative this manner in any consistent, reliable manner. This
>>learned behavior, under the guidance of laypersons suggests that Terri
>>could perhaps make much greater strides in her ability to communicate if
>>she were permitted to receive professional cognitive therapy, including
>>most especially speech-language therapy.
>>
>>15. Recent research at Johns Hopkins Medical Center and Duke University
>>demonstrate that the brain has "plasticity" and can be stimulated, and
>>new neural (dendrite) connectors can be formed, which could further
>>improve Terri's neurological functioning. Such therapy increases
>>cognitive function by increasing the number of connections between
>>existing functioning neurons, and will also bring additional existing,
>>dormant neurons into use.
>>
>>16. Neuroaerobics is a mode of treatment whereby specific tasks are
>>used to stimulate specific parts of the brain and specific brain
>>functions, and are repeated or exercised for maximum effect. This is
>>similar to a right-handed pitcher practicing pitching with his left hand
>>until he develops an increased ability to use the non-dormant arm.
>>Other examples include professional drivers who develop the ability to
>>read text backward in their rear-view mirrors, or salesmen who develop
>>the ability to read documents upside down to a prospect sitting across
>>the table from them. In each case increased neural pathways are built
>>and cognitive ability is enhanced through repeated effort. Such therapy
>>can also trigger latent memories to be restored. Terri demonstrates
>>control of cognition and would, within a reasonable degree of clinical
>>therapeutic certainty, respond to neuroaerobics.
>>
>>17. It is my opinion that Mrs. Schiavo is not in a persistent
>>vegetative state. Terri exhibits extensive and varied purposeful
>>reactions to her environment. These behaviors are particularly
>>pronounced in interactions with her family. There is much research to
>>affirm the fact that close family members typically perceive cognitive
>>behaviors in brain-injured patients before other caregivers recognize them.
>>
>>18. Depriving brain-damaged patients of medical, physical,
>>occupational, recreational and speech-language therapy is both neglect
>>and abusive. By denying such patients the stimulation provided by
>>enjoying a variety of visitors, such common comforts as cards and
>>flowers in her room, and the opportunity to leave her room, their
>>cognitive functioning is necessarily depressed from what it would
>>otherwise be. Given the neglect which Terri has suffered and the number
>>of years over which it has occurred, it is striking that her current
>>cognitive functioning is as strong and varied in expression as it is.
>>This indicates that sufficient brain structure exists for further
>>cognitive and behavioral progress to be made. Terri is an excellent
>>subject for a variety of cognitive treatment protocols designed to
>>improve her neurological function, including neuroaerobics, physical
>>therapy, recreational / occupational therapy, and speech-language therapy.
>>
>>19. It is my professional opinion, within a reasonable degree of
>>clinical therapeutic certainty, that Mrs. Schiavo's cognitive function
>>and ability to communicate and otherwise interact with her environment
>>can be greatly enhanced by the modalities mentioned.
>>
>>FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NAUGHT.
>>
>>Alexander T. Gimon, Ph.D.
>>
>>The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this _____ day of
>>August, 2003, by Alexander T. Gimon, Ph.D., who produced an Illinois
>>driver's license as identification, and who did / did not take an oath.
>>
>>Notary Public
>>
>>My commission expires: