troubles from supervisor -- advice needed
Antonio Huerta
That's me.
Help me with advice in my situation please. As you all know, I am a
junior research scientist in a governmental lab. The internal rule is
that people with a PhD and several years of experience (like I have)
get the position one or even two pay grades higher than what I am
having now. Alas for me.
Here I got a supervisor. I do not do any work for him; he is just my
administrative supervisor. And to be honest, this is an unhappy
situation. The management does not like him; he gets only few thousand
dollars of project money per year; recently he and his colleague
applied for a promotion and he was passed over; he is still bitter
about it. He is originally somewhere from the Orient. He is of my age,
and he got his PhD the same year as I did. The management finally
decided that they have to give the management responsibilities to the
guy, and made him my administrative supervisor ! I did not like it any
bit, because I believe I should be at least at the same pay grade as
him and be equal to him (at least !).
As I said, we are specialists in different areas of science, and I do
not do any work with him. However, he is trying to micromanage me. He
demands that I tell him where I am going, because he "bears a
responsibility for me, and should be able to tell to the management
where I am if asked". The truth is that nobody asks him where I am,
and even if the management wanted to find me, this supervisor would be
the last person to be asked about my whereabouts. I also do not like
his condescending manner. He drops to my workstation at any time, and
starts talking like a boss, and expects me to kiss his butt. What
for ??? He does not give me any project money; I am not his
subordinate in any project.
So that I devised the way to deal with him. I give him as little
information as possible about my work, so that he would have less
possibilities to interfere with my life. In other words, I keep him
out of the loop. It works... until he storms into my office and shouts
and demands to explain to him why I did not tell him that I went here
or there for this or that project. Formally, I let him know in the
agreed ways if I go away to do something, however I do it in such a
way that he is likely not to notice it. He feels excluded, and storms
into my office, and shouts at me. I tell him that I did formally let
him know about my whereabouts, but the reason does not get through to
him.
A while ago, when I encountered this sitiation for the first time, I
softly complained to the head of the department about my supervisor's
manner he treated me with. The departmental head let me know that he
knows about the personal traits of my supervisor, but was going to do
nothing about it. Well, I am not surprised: this departmental head was
the one who concocted this unhappy relationship -- he appointed this
Oriental guy to be my supervisor.
This situation would be funny if it was not so stressful. It is
inverse to what usually happened to me before. The 'real' management
(the one who has a power to distribute the resources and perks) seems
to be kind of accepted me, or tolerates me. They started to invite me
to this or that meeting which get start for new projects, and tell me
I would be a lead on the project (nothing happened yet so far, 'cause
talk is cheap... but it is probably coming). The 'real' management
universally tells me they are happy with my work.
The nuisance is this guy, the so-called 'supervisor'. It seems to me
that he tries to balance himself mentally by abusing me. (This is not
the kind of abuse I could go to HR and complain about; it is more
subtle.) Recently, he completed a yearly appraisal for me with a
satisfactory mark (this is what I wanted), however at the same time he
wrote I failed in the communication department, because I did not tell
him about my whereabouts and I did not give him copies of my papers
and reports. 8-) (I am yet to figure out what consequences this will
have for me, and whether/how I should strike back.)
The question is: how to get this guy off my back ? Recently I tried a
different tack. The departmental head left for the recreational leave,
and passed his duties onto his deputy. The next time my suprvisor
demanded me to come to his office and give him explanations why I did
not tell him that I went for the event X, I took the deputy along with
me. The conversation was peaceful, however the deputy did not like
conflicts and tried to convince me that the requests of my supervisor
were valid. Oh well, no luck in here for me.
I asked the deputy to give me the official guidelines on the amount of
detail of my whereabouts I should tell to supervisor. The deputy
waffled all the way saying I should tell about my every move. I had a
look in to our lab's official "Supervisor's Responsibilities" manual,
but of course they did not tell you down to such a detail that a
supervisor had to know about the supervisee whereabouts at any moment.
Instead, the manual says something like: "It is the responsibility of
the supervisor to ensure that the supervisee uphelds the Public
Service Rules of Conduct". I am thinking about going to HR and asking
them for a ruling, but this means an escalation of the conflict, and I
do not feel strong enough for that at the moment.
In your experience, guys, are the supervisor's expectations reasonable
or not, and how to deal with him ? Thanks.
rick++
So just try to wait it out and be positive in the meantime.
Stray Dog
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008, rick++ wrote:
> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 08:20:34 -0700 (PDT)
> From: rick++ <ric...@hotmail.com>
> Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
> Subject: Re: troubles from supervisor -- advice needed
>
> One rarely has the same boss for more than a year or two.
> So just try to wait it out and be positive in the meantime.
>
>
How about the rest of you guys out there?
Before I got drafted into the Army, I had the same boss .
On my 4 year postdoc, I had the same boss.
On my first job after my PhD, I had the same boss for 9 years.
On my next job, I had the same boss for 5 years.
Even in the Army, I had the same boss for all the time after basic
training.
When I left science, I incorporated and was my own boss, continuously,
until I disolved the corporation early this year. Total length of time: 12
years.
How many of you guys out there have a change in bosses every year or less?
Old Pif
>
> When I left science, I incorporated and was my own boss, continuously,
> until I dissolved the corporation early this year. Total length of time: 12
> years.
>
And how did you treat yourself being incorporated? Any lessons learn
from prior experience? Any conclusions drawn?
Stray Dog
On Fri, 12 Sep 2008, Old Pif wrote:
> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:21:23 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Old Pif <Old...@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
> Subject: Re: troubles from supervisor -- advice needed
>
Basically, it is very nice to be one's own boss. You don't have to argue
with another person who knows less about what you are doing than yourself.
After a number of years I hired my wife as VP. Ended up paying her more
than myself. Of course, she did most of the work towards the end, too. We
didn't have any fights about this; she did the part she knew best, I did
the part I knew best.
As long as you can come up with some "function" that people will pay money
for and you can make more than your costs to do business, and are happy
with the net per hour (this all ended up being part time work for both of
us), you're way ahead of the sweatbox, bullshit, high pressure,
meaningless, treadmill, Dilbert crap.
I disolved the corporation because I didn't want to leave a paperwork
burden on her in case I croaked. We're still in business, but shifted the
operation to a schedule C business. Much simpler. She's happy, I'm happy.
Grossing very low five digits, net is half of gross. Decent for part-time
work, fun, come and go when we want, socially redeeming work.
We also put up a hummingbird feeder (sugar soup is their yummy). Took them
two days to find it. We got at least two. They come all day long about
every ten minutes. They drink up about 3/4 cubic inch of soup per day.
Antonio Huerta
> One rarely has the same boss for more than a year or two.
> So just try to wait it out and be positive in the meantime.
When I was on a temporary status in this lab, I was changing the
supervisor every year or so, because of restructuring of the lab. But
now I am in a permanent position, and people in permanent positions
have the administrative supervisors for decades. The exception is the
people at the very bottom of hierarchy, as they tend to get re-
shuffled every few years to be put under different supervisors,
because the number of 'underlings' is the reflection of one's status,
and the growing 'stars' need to be rewarded with a supervisorship of
an increased number of underlings.
All of my supervisors during my temporary status have been the
departmental heads. When I got the permanent position, I got the
departmental head to be my administrative supervisor as well. But my
role turned out to be a pawn in the political game, because a year
later, I was moved under a staff member. I did not like it any bit --
my employment grade was supposed to be the same as my new 'supervisor'
had, it was just the higher management games to bring me on to a
permanent junior scientist position. As the departmental head said the
only reason why I was moved under that guy was to give a long-pending
'reward' to the guy. There was no business need for that, because I
was in a different field of science and did not do any project for or
with the new 'supervisor'.
But the departmental head did not quite compute the move of me
correctly, probably because he was an old and outdated fart. He did
not give me any tasks to do (the usual management trick around here),
so that he expected I would be glad to take any assignments from the
senior-ish scientists in our department who needed assistants to do
grunt work for him. However, I just went back to my previous
supervisors, and asked for the tasks to do. They involved me into the
peripheral (i.e., non-core) projects. And as I have been a rather
smart guy and a hard worker, I inevitably progressed to lead those
projects ! Due to their nature, the peripheral projects had a short
life-span and were terminated in a year or two, however at the moment
those supervisors (and their management) are involving me into the
more important projects... and my role seems to be a leader of those
projects as our lab is short on capable people (a consequence of
management's focus on promotion of favorites ?). And a funny situation
has been formed by the moment: my departmental head believes that my
role here should be an assistant to do a grunt work for the senior
scientists in our department, and then (maybe !) after few years I can
be promoted. The project budgets in our department are typically a few
thousand dollars as the department does a fundamental science. At the
same time, I have reached a status of project leader in other research
programs, and I have the budget of tens of thousands of dollars at my
fingertips. This also means that I can buy 'toys' for myself and have
a formal power over several employees (i.e., team members), and a
corresponding status. This probably feels sooooo wrong by my
departmental head and by my 'supervisor', as I think of myself as a
'technical leader', and my departmental head believes I am supposed to
think of myself as a lowly assistant.
As time went, the less and less number of my senior colleagues in my
department wanted to get me into their experiments as purely
assistant. I was only welcoming it because all my time was taken by
conceiving the scientific content in the projects ran from the other
departments, and arranging the jobs to be done by my team members (who
were assigned to me for the duration of the project from those other
departments). Obviosuly from my dept head point of view, this was the
situation which was going horribly wrong.
Maybe this explains why a few days ago, my 'supervisor' approached me
and said that he involves me into his project to do some low-level
assignment, and he forced me to put it into my task plan (the
performance against which he will be assessing me at the end of the
year).
The problem for me is that I am on my way of becoming a local expert
on the topic I am working on now (not there yet). I believe this is
the only way which will pave me a road towards promotion, as the
management realises that there is nobody else to work on that 'core'
project (and head that project), and I am formally of insufficiently
high grade to do that. I would like to wriggle out of this low-level
assignement which is in a different area of science (and does nothing
for my promotion, but only gobbles up my time). I asked for the
directions on how to do the project, and what are the deliverables,
and my 'supervisor' told me I have to work it out myself :-(
Can you guys share your experience on how can I wriggle out of doing
assignment which I do not want to do ?
Aging_Recycled_Scientist
on your whereabouts and activities by memo or email. Duh!!! Problem
solved!. Compliance might gain you an ally instead of a foe.
Antonio Huerta
wrote:
> Why be a stubborn ass? Humor this new supervisor. Give him reports
> on your whereabouts and activities by memo or email. Duh!!! Problem
> solved!. Compliance might gain you an ally instead of a foe.
Well, my 'supervisor' has sent me a list of the deliverables which he
thinks I should put into my task plan against the completion of which
he will assess me in a year. These all are low-level tasks, but most
importantly, I would be able to complete only about a third of the
tasks. This is a new area of science for me, and I'd have to spend a
lot of time learning this heavy stuff. I have given this reason to my
'supervisor', but he does not want to hear me. In his opinion, I'd
have plenty of time, and besides, he says he needs to have this stuff
completed.
Tomorrow I am going to have a conversation with him. I think it will
be ruinous for me to accept the tasks which I will not be able to
complete. I have already been there... in my previous employment, the
manager gave me the task I could not complete, and when I objected he
said it was a "stretch" goal... needless to say when the time came for
the yearly apparisal they argued it was not a "stretch" goal and fired
me...
I will tell to my 'supervisor': "Are you setting me for failure, are
you ?!!!" I will take the matter all the way to the upper
administration if the need be. The 'real' managment thinks of me as a
hard and capable worker.
I cannot think of any other way I got fight off this dark period of my
life...
rick++
a lot more fluid. Maybe back int he 70s and 80s management and
positins were much more stable. its a new world out there
since you left.
Antonio Huerta
I went to my 'supervisor' with _my_ version of my personal task plan
for the next year. Surpisingly for me, he easily agreed with
_everything_ withough a strong fight. He told me he had a conversation
with the other, 'real' managers about my work for them. maybe because
of this ?
Anyway, my 'supervisor' now insists that I have to go to the "team
player" training course. I told him that I did a work for other
project managers and universally obtained a feedback from them that
they were satisfied with my "team playing" capability, so that I asked
him to give me a reason why I should go for the course. His reply to
me was that that was what he wanted me to do, and that's it. Then he
said that I might be a good team player with other project managers,
but he was now my boss and he did not see yet my "team playing"
capabilities. I told him that I'd think about that, and we left it at
that for today.
The question is: should I go to the team playing course, or should I
strongly reject it ? My concern is that once I go to the course, then
I'll get a stigma attached that I was not a team player and that was
why I was sent to the course (who else is sent to the team playing
course other than the bad team players ?)
Stray Dog
You guys really need to get smart about this stuff.
See below for specific comments....
On Wed, 17 Sep 2008, Antonio Huerta wrote:
> Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 06:40:19 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Antonio Huerta <ahu...@inbox.com>
> Newsgroups: sci.research.careers, alt.computer.consultants
> Subject: Re: troubles from supervisor -- advice needed
>
> On Sep 16, 7:13 pm, Antonio Huerta <ahue...@inbox.com> wrote:
>> On Sep 13, 9:51 pm, Aging_Recycled_Scientist <bike...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Why be a stubborn ass? Humor this new supervisor. Give him reports
>>> on your whereabouts and activities by memo or email. Duh!!! Problem
>>> solved!. Compliance might gain you an ally instead of a foe.
>>
>> Well, my 'supervisor' has sent me a list of the deliverables which he
>> thinks I should put into my task plan against the completion of which
>> he will assess me in a year. These all are low-level tasks, but most
>> importantly, I would be able to complete only about a third of the
>> tasks. This is a new area of science for me, and I'd have to spend a
>> lot of time learning this heavy stuff. I have given this reason to my
>> 'supervisor', but he does not want to hear me. In his opinion, I'd
>> have plenty of time, and besides, he says he needs to have this stuff
>> completed.
>>
>> Tomorrow I am going to have a conversation with him. I think it will
>> be ruinous for me to accept the tasks which I will not be able to
>> complete. I have already been there... in my previous employment, the
>> manager gave me the task I could not complete, and when I objected he
>> said it was a "stretch" goal... needless to say when the time came for
>> the yearly apparisal they argued it was not a "stretch" goal and fired
>> me...
>>
>> I will tell to my 'supervisor': "Are you setting me for failure, are
>> you ?!!!"
The answer is: yes, they are setting you up for failure.
More below...
I will take the matter all the way to the upper
>> administration if the need be. The 'real' managment thinks of me as a
>> hard and capable worker.
>>
>> I cannot think of any other way I got fight off this dark period of my
>> life...
>
> I went to my 'supervisor' with _my_ version of my personal task plan
> for the next year. Surpisingly for me, he easily agreed with
> _everything_ withough a strong fight. He told me he had a conversation
> with the other, 'real' managers about my work for them. maybe because
> of this ?
Many big serious questions:
1. How are task plans made where you work? Look in the Employee's Handbook
and you should have one. Please tell us in the next post you make.
2. Are the tasks _negotiated_ or _dictated_ by the boss?
3. Are they listed on some form that you and the boss both sign?
4. Is there any space on the form for any additional comments for YOU to
write? This is very important.
5. Something else: whatever you sign, you need at least a Xerox photocopy,
and above all, you should have two copies in front of you and you sign
both, with original blue ink and your boss signs in his handwriting in
front of you.
> Anyway, my 'supervisor' now insists that I have to go to the "team
> player" training course. I told him that I did a work for other
> project managers and universally obtained a feedback from them that
> they were satisfied with my "team playing" capability, so that I asked
> him to give me a reason why I should go for the course. His reply to
> me was that that was what he wanted me to do, and that's it.
Question: Is everyone being told to go to the course, or just a few
people?
Then he
> said that I might be a good team player with other project managers,
> but he was now my boss and he did not see yet my "team playing"
> capabilities.
This is reasonable, don't be insulted. But, you can tell your boss that
since the course takes you away from your work, then make the task plan
smaller by some amount.
I told him that I'd think about that, and we left it at
> that for today.
See below...
> The question is: should I go to the team playing course, or should I
> strongly reject it ? My concern is that once I go to the course, then
> I'll get a stigma attached that I was not a team player and that was
> why I was sent to the course (who else is sent to the team playing
> course other than the bad team players ?)
This is a very very very serious situation. If you do not go to the "team
player" course, then it is proof that you do not want to be a team player
and that is a big bad black checkmark next to your name, and it does not
matter anything about the stigma. You should also ask how many others will
be there, and if you go, then you need to quietly talk to as many as
possible and make friends and exchange stories about why, what, etc.
Generally in work environments you have no rights. The boss is dictator,
you are a peasant/serf/slave whose job is to grovel.
You can, however, escalate the situation by finding out if there is a
greivance proceedure and you write a written memorandum to your boss, and,
perhaps, a blind carbon copy (means your boss does not know you are
sending it) to your Human Resources Department (if your company is large
enough to have one). First, you should have a verbal discussion with HR to
find out if you have any rights.
Be warned that bosses don't like you to do these things. However, your
memorandum should be polite instead of defiant, and make reference to
past performance with other bosses (are they at the same place?).
Do you like your present boss, or is he worse than the others? Or, do you
think he does not like you?
The first idea you get that your present boss does not like you, you need
to start looking for another job and be careful that you do not use your
present boss as reference. Use the ones who gave you good ratings.
You should also say if you have a formal performance review every year,
and is it signed by the boss and can you get copies for yourself? This is
important in the future since if, at the same place, you can show past
bosses like you but present boss does not, then you might have some
leverage. Its a little bit dangerous, but you can go to your bosses boss
and have a conversation and see what the guy says. Sometimes you can get
hints about some other problems if you listen very carefully.
You should also find out if they have something like "Performance
Improvement Plans" because they are always used as evidence in court to
fire an employee and they always make the job list so big that you have no
chance to complete more than a fraction of the work, and then they say
"OK, you did not do all this, therefore you are fired".
Its not a good idea to go to court and fight. Better to find a new job if
that is what is happening. Keep your thoughts private and smile as much as
possible.
Old Pif
>
> The question is: should I go to the team playing course, or should I
> strongly reject it ?
>
The question puts some doubt that they serve free lunch to
participant. Because in my place they do and nobody rejects
participation. The lunch is in the corporate headquarter so, you can
imagine the quality.
>
> My concern is that once I go to the course, then
> I'll get a stigma attached that I was not a team player and that was
> why I was sent to the course (who else is sent to the team playing
> course other than the bad team players ?)
>
Go and try to build the best macaroni tower imaginable. If your
suspicion is true, it will be equivalent to recovering alcoholic. They
give you a chance. It means that don't consider you hopeless. Take it.
BobR
>
> - Show quoted text -
Managers DON"T ask you to go to team building unless they are building
their own teams and want you to be a part. I have attended several
team building courses over the years and it was always a prelude to a
move up so don't think of it as being critical of your work. Just go,
participate and try to forget how silly they are.
Antonio Huerta
> Many big serious questions:
> 1. How are task plans made where you work? Look in the Employee's Handbook
> and you should have one. Please tell us in the next post you make.
> 2. Are the tasks _negotiated_ or _dictated_ by the boss?
> 3. Are they listed on some form that you and the boss both sign?
> 4. Is there any space on the form for any additional comments for YOU to
> write? This is very important.
I write the task plan for the next year in the form, sign it, and then
it is signed off by the supervisor and by the supervisor's supervisor.
The employee's manual is always on my desk. It clearly states that the
tasks are to be negotiated by the supervisor and the subordinate, and
not forced down by the supervisor. There is plenty of different fields
and space on the form, so that I can write any type of suggestions.
In fact, I was able to negotiate down the amount of work. It even
appears that the amount of the work is less than I can do. As a matter
of fact, it has appeared that my supervisor does not have officially
any technical staff assigned to it by the management... which
officially limits the project to a small scope. More like waving hands
in the air than doing anything.
So that I printed out a copy of the task plan agreement, and signed
it. The two other guys signed it as well. I got to keep the only copy
that is signed. I suspect that my supervisor does not have a photocopy
of it. Gee... hahaha...
> Question: Is everyone being told to go to the course, or just a few
> people?
Only I was told to go to the course. Anyway, I checked out a syllabus
for this 'team building' course. It appears it is a 'developmental
opportunity' and not a measure to rehabilitate up the bad team
players. I said to 'supervisor' I'd go. I also picked up another
course from the same list, something like "Managing the Team for the
Manager", and subscribed for it, too. This'll straighten up my list of
the courses I'd signed up.
> Do you like your present boss, or is he worse than the others? Or, do you
> think he does not like you?
I think my 'supervsior' does not have any personal issues with me.
However, I was given to this guy by the management as a long-awaited
perk. He now wants to enjoy his power. He is trying to micromanage me,
and obtain a feeling of superiority. My previous supervisors (who also
were project managers for whom I did work) did not want to involve
with me, so that they asked me little of work to do, and gave little
in return. I was effectively a boss of my own. And this guy is trying
to jump into a senior scientist position. He is prepared to do
anything and to screw anyone within his hand's reach. So... he got
me !
My situation with him is like a following situation. A 40-year old guy
finally got a position of Assistant Professor at university. The newly-
baked Asst. Prof. was asked to take over the management of the
projects of a full Prof. who went away on a long sabbatical leave. So
that the Asst. Prof. is eager to get into doing good science and earn
a reputation of a manager for himself. He starts to actively manage
the postdoc on the project, teach him how to do science and demands
reports to be submitted him every hour. Also, he wants the postdoc to
switch to doing the Asst Prof own projects, only the Asst Prof is not
sure which ones, and he has no funding for them anyway.
The only problem in here is that the postdoc is also a 40-year old
chap, and knows equally well how to do science and has earned a
reputation for that. He does not like to give the reports every hour,
and he wants to continue doing what he was doing. After all, the full
Prof. trusted his scientific ability and left him to his own devices,
and asked only the final papers which the postdoc did well. So I am
like this 40-y.o. postdoc.
Aging_Recycled_Scientist
> and asked only the final papers which the postdoc did well. So I am
> like this 40-y.o. postdoc.
Quit whining and bend over and take it like a man.
Stray Dog
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Antonio Huerta wrote:
> Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 02:08:37 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Antonio Huerta <ahu...@inbox.com>
> Newsgroups: sci.research.careers, alt.computer.consultants
> Subject: Re: troubles from supervisor -- advice needed
>
> On Sep 18, 7:34 am, Stray Dog <sdog2...@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
>
>> Many big serious questions:
>> 1. How are task plans made where you work? Look in the Employee's Handbook
>> and you should have one. Please tell us in the next post you make.
>> 2. Are the tasks _negotiated_ or _dictated_ by the boss?
>> 3. Are they listed on some form that you and the boss both sign?
>> 4. Is there any space on the form for any additional comments for YOU to
>> write? This is very important.
>
> I write the task plan for the next year in the form, sign it, and then
> it is signed off by the supervisor and by the supervisor's supervisor.
> The employee's manual is always on my desk. It clearly states that the
> tasks are to be negotiated by the supervisor and the subordinate, and
> not forced down by the supervisor. There is plenty of different fields
> and space on the form, so that I can write any type of suggestions.
>
> In fact, I was able to negotiate down the amount of work. It even
> appears that the amount of the work is less than I can do. As a matter
> of fact, it has appeared that my supervisor does not have officially
> any technical staff assigned to it by the management... which
> officially limits the project to a small scope. More like waving hands
> in the air than doing anything.
>
> So that I printed out a copy of the task plan agreement, and signed
> it. The two other guys signed it as well. I got to keep the only copy
> that is signed. I suspect that my supervisor does not have a photocopy
> of it. Gee... hahaha...
Looks pretty good to me, so far.
>> Question: Is everyone being told to go to the course, or just a few
>> people?
>
> Only I was told to go to the course. Anyway, I checked out a syllabus
> for this 'team building' course. It appears it is a 'developmental
> opportunity' and not a measure to rehabilitate up the bad team
> players. I said to 'supervisor' I'd go. I also picked up another
> course from the same list, something like "Managing the Team for the
> Manager", and subscribed for it, too. This'll straighten up my list of
> the courses I'd signed up.
This should all look good for you. And, don't forget to put this on your
CV or resume and structure the language so it is "positive" for you. Such
as "Voluntarily enrolled in noncompulsory Team Building course" or
something like that.
>> Do you like your present boss, or is he worse than the others? Or, do you
>> think he does not like you?
>
> I think my 'supervsior' does not have any personal issues with me.
> However, I was given to this guy by the management as a long-awaited
> perk. He now wants to enjoy his power. He is trying to micromanage me,
> and obtain a feeling of superiority.
This is a normal ego psychological phenomenon. Very common with kings and
emperors and managers. They all get swelled heads and swelled paychecks.
My previous supervisors (who also
> were project managers for whom I did work) did not want to involve
> with me, so that they asked me little of work to do, and gave little
> in return. I was effectively a boss of my own. And this guy is trying
> to jump into a senior scientist position. He is prepared to do
> anything and to screw anyone within his hand's reach. So... he got
> me !
One thing you can think about: try to see if get as many of these guys to
put anything in writing, a memo, or even a handwritten note, that says
they are happy with what you are doing. Just in case there are problems
down the road. Don't keep any of this at work, keep it at home.
> My situation with him is like a following situation. A 40-year old guy
> finally got a position of Assistant Professor at university. The newly-
> baked Asst. Prof. was asked to take over the management of the
> projects of a full Prof. who went away on a long sabbatical leave. So
> that the Asst. Prof. is eager to get into doing good science and earn
> a reputation of a manager for himself. He starts to actively manage
> the postdoc on the project, teach him how to do science and demands
> reports to be submitted him every hour. Also, he wants the postdoc to
> switch to doing the Asst Prof own projects, only the Asst Prof is not
> sure which ones, and he has no funding for them anyway.
Typical problem.
> The only problem in here is that the postdoc is also a 40-year old
> chap, and knows equally well how to do science and has earned a
> reputation for that. He does not like to give the reports every hour,
Are you serious? Every hour? That's crazy. Once a week is enough.
> and he wants to continue doing what he was doing. After all, the full
> Prof. trusted his scientific ability and left him to his own devices,
> and asked only the final papers which the postdoc did well. So I am
> like this 40-y.o. postdoc.
Well, I wish you luck. Keep generating peer-reviewed journals and keep
looking for the next job.
>
Thundercleets
Well, if you are a visa slave or prorpoerty of some outsourcer slave
shop you might as well strip and take it right in the ass.
The reason they hired you in the first place was so they could shit
all over you and you were cheap.
If you are a real citizen or are in the process of becoming one,
welcome to America.
You should probably take the course and file this incident in memory
to use for comparison if you are offered a better position somewhere
else in the company or at another firm. I don't think there is much
of a stigma attached to courses like this.
This could have also been a reprisal for questioning his lordships
decision but I would still take the course.
If you let it blow over or refuse the ass of a manager will most
likely use it against you at review time if they think they need to.
If it turns into a beef you could talk to HR about how you are being
singled out but there is really no good to come from it.
If HR does decide to stick their collective neck out for you you will
have made an enemy of this butt-hole manager.
Antonio Huerta
wrote:
> > and asked only the final papers which the postdoc did well. So I am
> > like this 40-y.o. postdoc.
>
> Quit whining and bend over and take it like a man.
Oh yeah ? How about something different like what the real men do ?
I am sick, tired and exhausted from this circus. I feel like taking
this thing http://i3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/338/240/71/o_JAPANESE-OFFICER-KATANA-SWORD-105215.jpg,
and going on a short and furious run through this snake house.
Antonio Huerta
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2008, Antonio Huerta wrote:
> > Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2008 02:08:37 -0700 (PDT)
OK, here is an update. The supervisor of my supervisor put the final
approval on the "satisfactory" assessment in my performance appraisal.
He has commented that I "have done well" on projects X and Y, and that
I took "great responsibility" for the projects Z and W. At the same
time, he commented that I had to improve the communication with my
supervisor, and listed those areas: I had to give him drafts of my
manuscript for review, give him copies of my published papers, tell
him if I was going away from my workstation offsite, and a couple
more. That's ridiculous ! Who in his right mind would demand to see
copies of my manuscripts and published papers ?? This is pages and
pages of the irrelevant boring staff he does not know a squat about.
Before, no manager of mine asked me to give copies of my papers or
wanted to review them (if they did not relate to the common
project)... They were too busy and preoccupied with their own stuff...
This guy is just desperate for any little signs of respect of his non-
existent authority. I do not have to show him my papers and
manuscripts... there is such thing as need-to-know... especially there
is such thing as non-disclosure agreement (some of my samples are from
the commercial project).
OK, here is my concern. Probably, nobody will see the light of this
paper anymore (unless in a year's time they will want to hurt me, and
recall about the "need to improve my communication"... neverthelss,
they gavce me a satisfactory evaluation, which means that my
performance was up to the standard and faultless). However, now I am
applying for the jobs in other departments, and a selection criterion
is "excellent communication skills". The interviewers are bound to ask
my supervisor about my performance even if I do not list him as my
referee. Will theu perceive "the need to improve communication" as
"not excellent communication skills" ?
Stray Dog
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, Antonio Huerta wrote:
> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 07:21:08 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Antonio Huerta <ahu...@inbox.com>
> Newsgroups: sci.research.careers, alt.computer.consultants
> Subject: Re: troubles from supervisor -- advice needed
>
>>> like this 40-y.o. postdoc.
>>
>> Well, I wish you luck. Keep generating peer-reviewed journals and keep
>> looking for the next job.
>
> OK, here is an update. The supervisor of my supervisor put the final
> approval on the "satisfactory" assessment in my performance appraisal.
> He has commented that I "have done well" on projects X and Y, and that
> I took "great responsibility" for the projects Z and W. At the same
> time, he commented that I had to improve the communication with my
> supervisor, and listed those areas: I had to give him drafts of my
> manuscript for review, give him copies of my published papers, tell
> him if I was going away from my workstation offsite, and a couple
> more. That's ridiculous ! Who in his right mind would demand to see
> copies of my manuscripts and published papers ??
Some of this is unreasonable...
This is pages and
> pages of the irrelevant boring staff he does not know a squat about.
> Before, no manager of mine asked me to give copies of my papers or
> wanted to review them (if they did not relate to the common
> project)... They were too busy and preoccupied with their own stuff...
> This guy is just desperate for any little signs of respect of his non-
> existent authority. I do not have to show him my papers and
> manuscripts... there is such thing as need-to-know... especially there
> is such thing as non-disclosure agreement (some of my samples are from
> the commercial project).
Actually, here is what comes to my mind as I read what you wrote.
You should make a list (in writing) of all the things they want you to do
(they put it into writing, didn't they?), and then you should smile as
best as you can AND give them everything they ask for, but not all at
once. Here is the punchline: you have in one hand what they ask for and
in the othere hand you have a "receipt" which REQUIRES their signature and
date of receipt. So, for every rediculous request/demand, you get a
gurarnteed proof that you gave them what they want. You save all of these
receipts and ....see below...
> OK, here is my concern. Probably, nobody will see the light of this
> paper anymore (unless in a year's time they will want to hurt me, and
> recall about the "need to improve my communication"... neverthelss,
> they gavce me a satisfactory evaluation, which means that my
> performance was up to the standard and faultless). However, now I am
> applying for the jobs in other departments, and a selection criterion
> is "excellent communication skills". The interviewers are bound to ask
> my supervisor about my performance even if I do not list him as my
> referee. Will theu perceive "the need to improve communication" as
> "not excellent communication skills" ?
When you go for these intereviews, YOU bring up the problems they are
giving you, and offer to show the signed receipts (never give them the
originals, just photo copies). So, you fix it so they can't fire you for
not meeting the rediculous demands.
OK??
Old Pif
>
> ... and listed those areas: I had to give him drafts of my
> manuscript for review, give him copies of my published papers, tell
> him if I was going away from my workstation offsite, and a couple
> more.
>
This is exactly the place where you have to exercise all your positive
attitude and thank that he has not requested weekly report on your
sexual life. As always it could be much worse.
Stray Dog
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, Old Pif wrote:
> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:33:44 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Old Pif <Old...@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: sci.research.careers, alt.computer.consultants
> Subject: Re: troubles from supervisor -- advice needed
>
Antonio Huerta did not say whether the boss demanded that he be told
everytime he goes to the toilet, and afterwards, when he comes back, and
maybe how many sheets of toilet paper he uses, and how many flushes of the
toilet.
Antonio Huerta
If I start reporting on my toilet breaks, then the supervisor will go
crazy and reprimand me for that. He will tell me: "How do you not
understand that you do not have to report on that ??" But frankly
speaking, my mind burnt out; I do not no any longer what absense I
have to report, and which one I don't.
Actually, an interesting story happened today. I bumped into our
former program manager at a tea break. It came out form him that I
still had to be a project manager on that program... however the new
young guy who was poointed missed on me when he distributed the tasks.
My task still has to be done. This young new program manager just did
not like me; it always happens to me (this means the problem is with
me...) Anyway, I expect that the situation will straighten up soon
(with the help of and on the initiative of the old program manager),
and the younger program manager will be reprimanded... I hope so. We
will see how the things will go.
Stray Dog
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008, Antonio Huerta wrote:
> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 06:42:31 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Antonio Huerta <ahu...@inbox.com>
> Newsgroups: sci.research.careers, alt.computer.consultants
> Subject: Re: troubles from supervisor -- advice needed
>
> On Sep 23, 11:11 am, Stray Dog <sdog2...@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
>> On Mon, 22 Sep 2008, Old Pif wrote:
>>> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:33:44 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>> Antonio Huerta did not say whether the boss demanded that he be told
>> everytime he goes to the toilet, and afterwards, when he comes back, and
>> maybe how many sheets of toilet paper he uses, and how many flushes of the
>> toilet.
>
> If I start reporting on my toilet breaks, then the supervisor will go
> crazy and reprimand me for that. He will tell me: "How do you not
> understand that you do not have to report on that ??" But frankly
> speaking, my mind burnt out; I do not no any longer what absense I
> have to report, and which one I don't.
Well, although partly a joke (you actually should have laughed), the point
is to determine the answer to this question: Does your supervisor not like
you for gut feelings (i.e. there is no hope for you) or because you are
doing something he does not like but you can fix (i.e. there is hope for
you). Sometimes you can kiss ass a little and it will help a lot.
Sometimes you can kiss ass and it will never help.
> Actually, an interesting story happened today. I bumped into our
> former program manager at a tea break. It came out form him that I
> still had to be a project manager on that program... however the new
> young guy who was poointed missed on me when he distributed the tasks.
> My task still has to be done. This young new program manager just did
> not like me; it always happens to me (this means the problem is with
> me...)
We all have our enemies, one way or the other.
Anyway, I expect that the situation will straighten up soon
> (with the help of and on the initiative of the old program manager),
> and the younger program manager will be reprimanded... I hope so. We
> will see how the things will go.
Good luck.
>
marika
"Stray Dog" <sdog...@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote in message
news:Pine.NEB.4.64.08...@sdf.lonestar.org...
>We all have our enemies, one way or the other.
Where/When?
mk5000
"He severed segments secretly you like that
He always took the time to speak with me,
I liked him for that
He severed segments so secretly you like that."--interpol, roland
>
Stray Dog
On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, marika wrote:
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 18:45:06 -0400
> From: marika <marik...@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: sci.research.careers, alt.computer.consultants,
> alt.usenet.legends.lester-mosley
> Subject: Re: troubles from supervisor -- advice needed
>
>
> "Stray Dog" <sdog...@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote in message
> news:Pine.NEB.4.64.08...@sdf.lonestar.org...
>
>
>
>> We all have our enemies, one way or the other.
>
> Where/When?
You have not been around long enough.
marika
"Stray Dog" <sdog...@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote in message
news:Pine.NEB.4.64.08...@sdf.lonestar.org...
>
>>
>>
>>> We all have our enemies, one way or the other.
>>
>> Where/When?
>
> You have not been around long enough.
>
when she sits around the house, she really sits around the house.
Around the world, this newsgroup or other?
mk5000
"That's how I know I trust you,
You're not sure if there's a right or wrong
But it feels like there is when I treat you like this
I go outside"--my heart is an apple, arcade fire
marika
"Antonio Huerta" <ahu...@inbox.com> wrote in message
news:af0bf6a3-e060-412c...@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
OK, here is my concern. Probably, nobody will see the light of this
paper anymore (unless in a year's time they will want to hurt me, and
recall about the "need to improve my communication"... neverthelss,
they gavce me a satisfactory evaluation, which means that my
performance was up to the standard and faultless). However, now I am
applying for the jobs in other departments, and a selection criterion
is "excellent communication skills". The interviewers are bound to ask
my supervisor about my performance even if I do not list him as my
referee. Will theu perceive "the need to improve communication" as
"not excellent communication skills" ?
============
I know this much: Just by reading this one post, I would say that you do
not have excellent communication skills. It contains misspellings and it
isn't grammatically particularly good.
(Mine never are, because I work very rapidly and frankly don't care about
details. Maybe you should start posting bubbly stuff to usenet like me and
get more practice).
If you are applying within the same organization, then they have a right to
see your evaluation when deciding whether to hire you, irrespective of
whether or not you list your supervisor.
When I am hiring, I consider "need to improve communication" as evidence
that one's communication skills are less than stellar.
I would take a few communication courses then, and add them to my resume to
demonstrate that I had taken steps to correct the perceived deficit.
mk5000
marika
"BobR" <re...@r-a-reed-assoc.com> wrote in message
news:6edb9aba-888c-448c...@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Managers DON"T ask you to go to team building unless they are building
their own teams and want you to be a part. I have attended several
team building courses over the years and it was always a prelude to a
move up so don't think of it as being critical of your work. Just go,
participate and try to forget how silly they are.
==========
I can't imagine that anyone would consider a costly training course being
provided to them for free is a NEGATIVE from an employer. Employers don't
give benefits to employees like this without expecting that the investment
will pay off
This almost sounds like paranoia.
mk5000
"you ain't foolin' nobody - with the lights out! and the power's
out in the heart of man, take it from your heart put it in your hand.
and there's something wrong in the heart of man, you take it from your
heart and put it in your hand! where'd you go?!"--neighborhood number 3,
arcade fire
marika
I went to my 'supervisor' with _my_ version of my personal task plan
for the next year. Surpisingly for me, he easily agreed with
_everything_ withough a strong fight. He told me he had a conversation
with the other, 'real' managers about my work for them. maybe because
of this ?
Anyway, my 'supervisor' now insists that I have to go to the "team
player" training course. I told him that I did a work for other
project managers and universally obtained a feedback from them that
they were satisfied with my "team playing" capability, so that I asked
him to give me a reason why I should go for the course. His reply to
me was that that was what he wanted me to do, and that's it. Then he
said that I might be a good team player with other project managers,
but he was now my boss and he did not see yet my "team playing"
capabilities. I told him that I'd think about that, and we left it at
that for today.
The question is: should I go to the team playing course, or should I
strongly reject it ? My concern is that once I go to the course, then
I'll get a stigma attached that I was not a team player and that was
why I was sent to the course (who else is sent to the team playing
course other than the bad team players ?)
============
yes you should go to the course. if you don't go to the course you get the
stigma of not being a team player. not the reverse.
team playing concepts are a good thing to refresh even for those who have
that experience and have had success with it.
mk5000
----- Original Message -----
From: "marika" <marik...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.philosphy,alt.usenet.legends.lester-mosley
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2008 11:28 AM
Subject: breathe in skit 1
> commercial Real estate rental costs are jacked up only if the price
> per square foot goes up because the real estate is worth more. If a
> commercial renter's presence has made the real estate more valuable,
> then there's a paradox there and a disincentive to locate in such
> rental space.
>
> conversely, however, if that entity has created the value added, then
> it's leaving will lower the per square foot value of the space.
> that's bargaining power. So if an entity is contemplating a lease
> renewal then it has the bargaining power to bargain the rental down in
> their favor, presumably because they are now a de facto key tenant.
> however, if they took a long term lease and the increases were built
> into the long term lease based on increase in sales or some other
> similar mesure of gross or net sales, then they had a horrible agent
> when they first rented up.
>
> No one except the desperate would agree to key rental increases to
> gross.]
>
> There is a distinct advantage to a business owning their propertly.
> More deductions, including taxes and most of all depreciation. The
> downside is the capital needed to get such a place, and if you are
> already in a building, the moving costs and advertising the move to
> your good will customers. And of course finding a space that fits the
> needs of entity and customer. However, all these expenses are
> deductible.
>
> Depreciation however works only for a few years, and somewhere later
> no later than around year 5 one has to start thinking of remortgaging
> or putting in improvements to get further deductions on interest and
> depreciation. These deductions are mostly valuable in the earlier
> stages of the loans or the equipment/real estate purchase.
>
> mk5000
>
> "AKA, step. Delta, step
> S G Rho, step. Zeta, step"--school spirit, kanye west
>
>
>
marika
The problem for me is that I am on my way of becoming a local expert
on the topic I am working on now (not there yet). I believe this is
the only way which will pave me a road towards promotion, as the
management realises that there is nobody else to work on that 'core'
project (and head that project), and I am formally of insufficiently
high grade to do that. I would like to wriggle out of this low-level
assignement which is in a different area of science (and does nothing
for my promotion, but only gobbles up my time). I asked for the
directions on how to do the project, and what are the deliverables,
and my 'supervisor' told me I have to work it out myself :-(
============\
WoW what happens next!
dude if you want further promotions, you WILL work it out yourself.
If you can't work it out, they will go outside of the company and hire
somene who is an expert, possibly more son than you and who has absolutely
no problem with creating a competent project plan that if you had taken the
initiative, you would be directing and giving assignments to minions. but
as you won't figure it for yourself, the new person is certain to make you
the minion.
----- Original Message -----
From: "marika" <marik...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.philosophy.taoism,alt.usenet.legends.lester-mosley
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: i have not yet read lao tzu
>
> "wanderriver" <wande...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4655f350-f2a9-4369...@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Speaking of which, I recently read a book about the Beat Generation
> and found this interesting. btw, finding flaws is to be expected;
> unless one isn't familiar with human nature that is. It's a whole.
>
> I just finished one about the "Beats" written by a younger man who
> went to study under them (no pun intended)...and his discription of
> them leaves much to be desired. He even has the most famous of them
> under the domination of a Buddhist master who tells the guy he's too
> attached to his beard and he should shave it off. So, the dude goes
> and shaves off his beard just to appear less ego driven. The
> Buddhist master lived in a mansion and drove a mercedes.
>
> =========
>
>
> Scary post on a couple of different levels -- it sounds analogous to
> Boston's Big Dig except with millions, not billions, of dollars.
> I see much more frustration ahead for us.
>
>
> mk5000
>
> "She sends me blue valentines
> All the way from philadelphia
> To mark the anniversary
> Of someone that I used to be"--Tom Waits
>
marika
Well, my 'supervisor' has sent me a list of the deliverables which he
thinks I should put into my task plan against the completion of which
he will assess me in a year. These all are low-level tasks, but most
importantly, I would be able to complete only about a third of the
tasks. This is a new area of science for me, and I'd have to spend a
lot of time learning this heavy stuff. I have given this reason to my
'supervisor', but he does not want to hear me. In his opinion, I'd
have plenty of time, and besides, he says he needs to have this stuff
completed.
Tomorrow I am going to have a conversation with him. I think it will
be ruinous for me to accept the tasks which I will not be able to
complete. I have already been there... in my previous employment, the
manager gave me the task I could not complete, and when I objected he
said it was a "stretch" goal... needless to say when the time came for
the yearly apparisal they argued it was not a "stretch" goal and fired
me...
I will tell to my 'supervisor': "Are you setting me for failure, are
you ?!!!" I will take the matter all the way to the upper
administration if the need be. The 'real' managment thinks of me as a
hard and capable worker.
I cannot think of any other way I got fight off this dark period of my
life...
=============
Sadly another one bites the dust.
If you had ANY sense, you would create a plan showing what is needed in
order to meet the deliverables schedules. You'd put together some kind of
project plan. You would show what is needed in order to get to the goal.
Where you need to leverage the talents of others. How your meeting the
goals depends on their producing information or finishing tasks. You don't
answer a supervisor by saying "I can''t do it". You answer by saying I can
do it within the following constraints. If I could get these additional
resources and so on.
If your supervisor NEEDS to have this completed then HIS job is dependent on
your completion of it. If you don't tell him exactly what you need in order
to complete it (instead of shrilly ranting like a little girl having a
tantrum that you CAN"T) then he can't tell his superiors what he needs in
order to meet his plans and goals.
You created your own dark period.
you can uncreate it if you want. You apparently don't want
----- Original Message -----
From: "marika" <marik...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.philosophy.taoism,alt.usenet.legends.lester-mosley
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: taoism and gnostic exegetical acrobatics
>
> "{:-])))" <...cycling@times...> wrote in message
> news:e1unb4p5o6c8ne05d...@4ax.com...
>
>>
>> It's called, "just sitting.">
>
> I'll Drive there, my car needs to be driven, unless my father wants to
> bring me but why bother him.
>
> mk5000
>
> Fuel Economy
>
>>
>> Economically Correct New Proposal to Increase
>> Cars' Fuel Economy Will Hurt the Auto Industry
>> August 11, 2008 by G.L.C.
>>
>> Under the Energy Independence and Security Act passed last year, the
>> Department of Transportation (DOT) has to raise the fuel economy standard
>> for cars and light trucks to a fleet-wide average of 35 miles per gallon
>> by
>> 2020. The act also gives the DOT the authority to fix interim standards.
>> The
>> government's recent proposal to increase fuel efficiency of automobiles
>> to
>> 31.5 miles per gallon by 2015 has drawn criticism from all quarters. Auto
>> makers say it is too tough on them. Activists say it is not tough enough.
>>
>> This recent proposal is a 25% increase from the present standards and
>> does
>> a
>> great disservice to the auto industry and the American people. The auto
>> industry is in absolute crisis scrambling to adjust to the market shift
>> that
>> has occurred due to rapidly rising gas prices, with consumers fleeing
>> from
>> large, fuel-inefficient light trucks and SUVs and buying smaller, more
>> fuel-efficient and hybrid electric cars.
>>
>> U.S. auto makers say that while the proposal is expected to save car
>> owners
>> more than $100 billion in fuel costs over the lifetime of the vehicle, it
>> would cost the industry over $46 billion to implement the proposal making
>> it
>> the most expensive federal proposal ever. They warn that many of them
>> would
>> be forced to close shop or cut down on the number of workers - both of
>> which
>> are not good for the economy. This year is turning out to be the worst
>> year
>> for car sales in more than a decade. News of the troubled auto industry
>> keeps mounting. Ford Motor Company just announced a loss of $8.7 billion
>> for
>> the second quarter. -
>
> http://www.amateureconomists.com/blogs/2008/08/11/new-proposal-to-increase-cars-fuel-economy-will-hurt-the-auto-industry
>
Antonio Huerta
> When I am hiring, I consider "need to improve communication" as evidence
> that one's communication skills are less than stellar.
>
> I would take a few communication courses then, and add them to my resume to
> demonstrate that I had taken steps to correct the perceived deficit.
Gee. Thanks for the advice. I work for the government. I am going to
see if the other people (i.e., hiring managers) could see my
performance evaluations. So far, they are exclusively on the web-based
Intranet database. They are supposed to be seen only by me and by my
supervisor. I am going to dig out if a hiring manager can get an
access to it.
Antonio Huerta
> This almost sounds like paranoia.
Gee, you are not the first (and even not a second or third person) who
suggests that I exhibit the signs of paranoia.
And guess what ? In some other forum, I assumed this as my nickname.
Antonio Huerta
> "Antonio Huerta" <ahue...@inbox.com> wrote in message
>
> news:844bcb46-fb7e-486f...@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> The problem for me is that I am on my way of becoming a local expert
> on the topic I am working on now (not there yet). I believe this is
> the only way which will pave me a road towards promotion, as the
> management realises that there is nobody else to work on that 'core'
> project (and head that project), and I am formally of insufficiently
> high grade to do that. I would like to wriggle out of this low-level
> assignement which is in a different area of science (and does nothing
> for my promotion, but only gobbles up my time). I asked for the
> directions on how to do the project, and what are the deliverables,
> and my 'supervisor' told me I have to work it out myself :-(
>
> ============\
>
> WoW what happens next!
>
> dude if you want further promotions, you WILL work it out yourself.
>
> If you can't work it out, they will go outside of the company and hire
> somene who is an expert, possibly more son than you and who has absolutely
> no problem with creating a competent project plan that if you had taken the
> initiative, you would be directing and giving assignments to minions. but
> as you won't figure it for yourself, the new person is certain to make you
> the minion.
My department is a kind of toxic place (not as horribly toxic as it
could be, nevertheless it is one of the most toxic ones around). The
long-time departmental head instilled this kind of toxicity in the
department by delegating no authority and by giving almost no budgets
to anyone (especially to "undesirables"), demanding the total
compliance to his rules etc. My 'supervisor' was one of the
'undesirables' in the department, and has completely starved from
deprivation. Now the management felt that he needed "a reward", and
gave me to him to be his ynderling. And what this guys does first ? --
He starts to treat me exactly like he was treated by the dept head
before ! ... It is a human nature...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "marika" <marika5...@gmail.com>
>
> Newsgroups: alt.philosophy.taoism,alt.usenet.legends.lester-mosley
> Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:49 AM
> Subject: Re: i have not yet read lao tzu
>
> > "wanderriver" <wanderri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message