Many wars in ancient India
Me, again!
Many Indians on alt.computer.consultants (and other NGs) have, over the
last few years, been posting a lot of anti-US, anti-white, and
other racist crap. All as if Indians, in India, had nothing but innocent
and peaceful past histories and only "whites" make trouble for Indians,
American Indians (now called Native Americans) and the rest of the world.
In the past, I've cited Basham's book on Indian history that violence
(murder, wars, crime, and corruption) in India can be traced back thousands
of years, even before there was any significant wars or even
much organization in Europe. However, the arrogant, ignorant, and impudent
Indians (eg. Kamal Prasad, Tambi Dude, "ind...@india.com", "indiaBPOking")
are still at their game of bad-mouthing the USA, Americans, and "whites"
in general or in specific. A question they love to focus on is how many
American Indians whites (from Europe) killed when they stole the lands of
the American Indians (as if no other peoples in the world did these things
in all of the other wars in history). These Indians seem to have zero interest
in truth and justice and understanding, but a large interest in
propaganda, racism, and boasting.
It seems to me that in ancient India, there was as much bloodshed,
killing, stealing land as anywhere else. Ignorant and bigoted Indians
reveal their own prejudices by pointing their fingers only at "whites" as
the only people who have done bad things in the past.
Now, I will begin quotes from "The Cambridge Shorter History of India" by
J. Allen, Sir T. Wolseley Haig, H.H. Dodwell, and R.R. Sethi. The last
author is Head of Dept History, Punjab University College, New Delhi. The
book was even published in India (1964) by S. Chand & Co., and sold for Rs
18.00.
The first 100 pages deal with India's early history.
Here is how it begins:
1500-1000 BC, quotes
page 5: "Aryas consisted of a number of tribes who were continually
waging war on the aborigines and frequently each other."
page 6: "Fife tribes...Purus, Turvasas, Yadus, Anus and Druhyus.... These
appear with five other tribes in the battle of Ten Kings, the great event
in Vedic history...."[more Indian names listed].
"Sudas came of a military family, for his grandfather Divodasa was also a
mighty warrior and a great enemy of the Dasas, on whom he waged relentless
war."
page 9: "The Parikshitas were the first of the many dynasties recorded in
Indian history that attained great power and then suddenly collapsed.
...Jawa was a great conquorer...."
"Janaka....he was a great monarch--a Samraj or emperor. Of his wars and
conquests...." [but in a war with] Kasi, whose King, Ajatasatru, was
exceedingly jealous of Janaka's fame."
page 10: "In Prasenajit's old age he had a war with Ajatasatru of
Magadha."
"At one time Kasi, completely subdued Kosala in a war, in which the king
of the latter was slain and his queen carried off prisoner." [7th century
BC].
page 11: "Anga at one time was a much more important state than Magadha,
but it was conquored by Bimbasara...."
"Another passage in Buddhist literature records how Sunidha and Vassakar,
ministers of Magadha, built a new fortified town at Pataligama to repel
the Vajjis...."
...and most of the next 100 pages mentions an average of about one war per
page in ancient India. Nice innocent, peaceful Indians? I think not.
John Galt
> First draft, Nov 24, 2009
>
> Many Indians on alt.computer.consultants (and other NGs) have, over the
> last few years, been posting a lot of anti-US, anti-white, and other
> racist crap. All as if Indians, in India, had nothing but innocent and
> peaceful past histories and only "whites" make trouble for Indians,
> American Indians (now called Native Americans) and the rest of the world.
>
> In the past, I've cited Basham's book on Indian history that violence
> (murder, wars, crime, and corruption) in India can be traced back thousands
> of years,
What's the point? I mean, shit, Indira Ghandi's own Secret Service
killed her, Rajiv Ghandi was then killed by the Tamil Tigers, you've got
loads of Naxalites killing people and causing trouble all over the
country, they can't control the Pakistani-funded insurgencies, and their
solution was to outsource the management of the country to an Italian. :-)
It's a lot of smart people living in a mess that they can't control. If
they try to convince anyone that living THERE is better than living
HERE, then they're not so smart.
JG
kamal
> Me, again! wrote:
> > First draft, Nov 24, 2009
>
> > Many Indians on alt.computer.consultants (and other NGs) have, over the
> > last few years, been posting a lot of anti-US, anti-white, and other
> > racist crap. All as if Indians, in India, had nothing but innocent and
> > peaceful past histories and only "whites" make trouble for Indians,
> > American Indians (now called Native Americans) and the rest of the world.
>
> > In the past, I've cited Basham's book on Indian history that violence
> > (murder, wars, crime, and corruption) in India can be traced back thousands
> > of years,
>
cheaper than water in the USA.
> What's the point? I mean, shit, Indira Ghandi's own Secret Service
> killed her, Rajiv Ghandi was then killed by the Tamil Tigers, you've got
If you can read what I type, it is *Gandhi( and not Ghandi.
Individuals don't represent an establishment or a country or a
community.
> loads of Naxalites killing people and causing trouble all over the
> country, they can't control the Pakistani-funded insurgencies, and their
you could say the same thing about the IRA in britain or any other
insurgency anywhere else.
> solution was to outsource the management of the country to an Italian. :-)
>
> It's a lot of smart people living in a mess that they can't control. If
> they try to convince anyone that living THERE is better than living
> HERE, then they're not so smart.
>
it isn't better for sure -if one were living as a citizen and not as a
refugee in the US. Since the option is to live as a refugee in the US
vs citizen in India, I think the latter is better.
regards
-kamal
Me, again!
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009, John Galt wrote:
> Me, again! wrote:
>> First draft, Nov 24, 2009
>>
>> Many Indians on alt.computer.consultants (and other NGs) have, over the
>> last few years, been posting a lot of anti-US, anti-white, and other racist
>> crap. All as if Indians, in India, had nothing but innocent and peaceful
>> past histories and only "whites" make trouble for Indians, American Indians
>> (now called Native Americans) and the rest of the world.
>>
>> In the past, I've cited Basham's book on Indian history that violence
>> (murder, wars, crime, and corruption) in India can be traced back thousands
>> of years,
>
> What's the point?
The point was pretty well explained in all of what I said (including more
below)
I mean, shit, Indira Ghandi's own Secret Service killed
> her, Rajiv Ghandi was then killed by the Tamil Tigers, you've got loads of
> Naxalites killing people and causing trouble all over the country, they can't
> control the Pakistani-funded insurgencies, and their solution was to
> outsource the management of the country to an Italian. :-)
That's all in recent times. I'm talking about the last 3,000 - 4,000
years, way before the USA even existed.
> It's a lot of smart people living in a mess that they can't control.
And, haven't for thousands of years.
If they
> try to convince anyone that living THERE is better than living HERE, then
> they're not so smart.
No, they are not interested in any comparison, they just want to "bash"
the USA, white people, America, and anything else "western".
//////////////////
Me, again!
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009, kamal wrote:
> On Nov 24, 7:24 pm, John Galt <kady...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Me, again! wrote:
>>> First draft, Nov 24, 2009
>>
>>> Many Indians on alt.computer.consultants (and other NGs) have, over the
>>> last few years, been posting a lot of anti-US, anti-white, and other
>>> racist crap. All as if Indians, in India, had nothing but innocent and
>>> peaceful past histories and only "whites" make trouble for Indians,
>>> American Indians (now called Native Americans) and the rest of the world.
>>
>>> In the past, I've cited Basham's book on Indian history that violence
>>> (murder, wars, crime, and corruption) in India can be traced back thousands
>>> of years,
>>
> yep -blood is cheaper than water in India -just as (stolen) oil is
> cheaper than water in the USA.
Of course when Indians steal US IP, and benefit from US drugs going off
patent, then it means the likes of Ranbaxy (an Indian drug firm) can
manufacture drugs to sell to the USA WITHOUT having to do testing,
research, marketing, etc. A big savings, and a free ride handed to India
on a silver platter.
Here is the rest of my response:
Kamal Prasad has been preaching "economics 101" for many years now. It
also includes that:
1. The USA is all bad (he would never talk about any other country's
problems except the problems of the USA), and there is no good in the USA
(surely an unfair witch-hunt against the USA just as much of the world
calls the US the "Great Satan"). Kamal Prasad has, in some posts in 2009,
denied that he stated some of these earlier comments which can easily be
found in NG archives some few years earlier.
2. Americans never did anything but steal land from the American Indians,
and all of our "fountain of wealth" is due to inflated currency and our
standard of living is because we used slaves (this is all stated by him
many times despite the fact that all throughout history untill the 1800s,
slavery was common and wars were carried out to "acquire" land and
treasure also all throughout history, and by all great powers).
3. The curious idea that employees do not own their jobs.
This idea is mostly a derivation of life in the dark ages when kings and
emperors were as close to being gods and all other human beings were
considered as low-life worms, insects, or other sub-human lifeforms. It is
a mystery why Kamal Prasad really wants people to live under conditions
and rulers as if in times of 1,000 years ago, or so, under despotic
kings-emperors.
In the cave-man days, there were no jobs, no property, no money, no
corporations, no CEOs, no restrictions. If you wanted to eat, you just
went out and did "hunterer-gatherer-planter." Find your cave, or make a
tent out of animal skins. You could still have sex and kids. Life was,
however, at the mercy of floods, droughts, famine, disease, wars, and
superstition.
In the Inca Empire (1250-1500), there was no money, no property, no CEOs,
no employer (except the state) and no employees, etc., but the society was
well developed, civilized, had buildings and cities, was well fed, and had
a high culture.
In the days of Egyptian pyramids (> 4000 years ago), it is recorded in
narrative, that days came when food prices went up by inflation so that
pyramid builder wages were not enough. Did the Pharo own those jobs?
Irrelevant: the Pharo needed the workers, the workers needed wages to buy
food. When the deal went from good to bad, the workers went on strike.
Then, the Pharo did something to resolve the problem of the workers.
Seems to me like the workers had more power than Kamal Prasad would
say they have.
The history of human rights, the ethical question of whether slavery
should be legal (it became illegal in most countries during the 1800s),
and the democratization of politics (where statesmen have term limits and
are elected by popular vote) is an interesting story of how power, wealth,
and priviledges were taken away, at least to some degree, from the few
powerful/wealthy and given to the masses. From the Magna Carta (1215 AD)
until a vast number of laws came into existence in England/Europe to
curtail favored interests and priviledged people, including state granted
monopolies, mostly during the 1800s, is an evolution of the development
of fairness and power-sharing in society.
Union history is about empowering employees who are otherwise at a
negotiating disadvantage in the employer-employee relationship.
The expansion of trade between first world countries and 3rd world
countries has exploited the exchange rate advantage where 3rd world
countries started to offer, around 1970s, cheap currency which makes
business transactions take place based on guaranteed net profits to the
business and forget the employees in the first world. Unions have become
almost powerless against this new strategy, but countries like India would
never experience current high growht rates without the favor of US money,
US CEOs, and currency cheating by the Reserve Bank of India, which
includes that Indian markets are still not open to US, Indian tarrifs on
US exports are still high, and there is no free market in India (Us
companies have to partner with Indian companies) and yet India can set up
operations in the US, and get US-govt-taxpayer subsidies in the form of
H1b and L-1 visas for cheap Indian workers to come over and then underbid
the local Americans.
The USA cannot be a "cash-cow" for all of the 3rd world countries at the
expense of US citizens and for sustainable periods into the future.
4. Kamal Prasad's complaint about US "fountain of wealth" being all due to
the government "printing" money on demand is a flawed idea when compared
with: i) how fractional reserve banking _creates_ money when deposits are
loaned out (see any book on banking), ii) how corporations _print_ stock
shares and bonds which people readily buy, and iii) value keeps increasing
for antiques and rare art (Picasos, Rembrandts, etc.) to the point where such
art can be worth $10-100 million for one small art object. Is that
greenback really worthless? The vast majority of world's business transactions
are based on checks, electronic trades, contracts, stock shares, bank
statements, plastic, and paper money. I've been buying and selling things
(including cars and houses) with such "worthless" money all my life. At
least 99% of the world's business uses this "worthless" money, all the
time.
5. Kamal Prasad has this idea that there is a fixed, absolute, final
"economics". He does not understand that a lot of economics is more like a
religion. There have been at least a dozen "schools of economic thought"
in the last 200 years. There are also many economists who accept that
economics is an imperfect science and some don't even think economics is a
science. Steve Keen, who authored the book "Debunking Economics" is a
professor of economics who thinks economics has a long way to go before it
becomes a science. Kamal Prasad should also read "Bad Samaritans" by
Chang, all about the myth of free trade. It is interesting to learn from
history that some kings/emperors had (either themselves, or through their
advisors) a rudimentary idea of how to make their societies function
better by having money (coins/paper money existed in many places thousands
of years ago), before the words "economics/economists" came into
existence. Moneylending existed in ancient Babylon, 4,000 years ago.
6. Kamal Prasad, and some other Indians, seem to have this idea that
Americans should lower their standard of living in order to better compete
with cheap currency countries. What Indians _should_ do is thank the US
CEOs for taking jobs away from Americans and giving them to Indians, and
sharing that "fountain of wealth" with Indians who from 1950-2000 could
not lift themselves out of poverty without US help. What else India should
do is clean up its educational system, work to feed its own people,
generate its own jobs, establish better control in the
Naxalite/Maoist-controlled areas of the country, stop female infanticide
and child slave labor, and eradicate caste discrimination including
against Dalits (the "untouchables").
John Galt
I wouldn't disagree, having lived in India myself as an ex-pat (and thus
enjoying the benefits of citizenship if not the actual status.)
As an American (being paid like an American) you can hack out a rather
nice life in India, particularly if you are fortunate enough to get out
of the high-cost crosshairs of Bangalore, Delhi, and Mumbai.
Even then, my wife met a nice elderly American lady when we were living
there who had been in Bangalore for 25-odd years. Her husband had been
an ex-pat all that time, and he had died some four years prior. After he
died, her daughter talked her into coming back to the states, where she
found that the money she had coming in from various sources was about
enough to prudently ensconce her in a middle-quality apartment in San
Diego where she had to take expensive taxis just to get to the grocery,
whereupon each week she spent about as much on food items as she would
spend in two months in India. (Her having not driven for 30 years, she
wasn't about to start.)
After 18 months of living in thusly, she is now happily back in
Bangalore in a small house with a garden and a driver, a cook, and a
gardener, all for less money than she was paying out for the apartment
in San Diego and taxis and food each month.
JG