IQ and Education
Tim McNamara
In article <01bcb8dc$5a2f5aa0$f8d192cf@default>, "Dr. Efram E. Goldstein"
<efr...@worldsciuni.com> wrote:
>Such students cannot
>attend classes
>together, it would be unfair and destructive to both, as it has been shown
>to be
>for the 15 pt. US black-gentile white gap in the US education system, where
>the public schools have been rendered nonfunctional as a result.
That's a bit sweeping, isn't it? As you should well know, reasearch has
also indicated that IQ differences are more closely related to
socioeconomic factors than race. Poverty tends to reduce IQ test
performance through a broad spectrum of mechanisms. Public schools are
hardly "nonfunctional" as a whole, but *are* more so in urban areas where
there is a greater disparity in socioeconomic conditions. I notice that
you have selected examples showing that students of Afrcian extraction or
ancestry appear to be less intelligent than whites, yet you do not comment
on the significantly higher scores of European Jewish students compared to
white non-Jewish students.
Your "point" is nothing but a rehash of the vile racism expressed in _The
Bell Curve_ and serves to do nothing but support the institutionalization
of racist based educational discrimination.
--
A pistol shot, at five o'clock the bells of Heaven ring.
Tell me what you done it for?
No, I won't tell you a thing.
PipePR
If there is a 47 point difference between European Jews ( I presume
Ashkenazi Jews ) and Ethiopian Jews, is there also a difference between
Sefhardic Jews and those of Ashkenazi extraction ?
Dr. Efram E. Goldstein
PipePR <pip...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970906225...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> If there is a 47 point difference between European Jews ( I presume
> Ashkenazi Jews ) and Ethiopian Jews, is there also a difference between
> Sefhardic Jews and those of Ashkenazi extraction ?
Yes. As many studies have shown (including those referenced in
The Bell Curve) Ashkenazi score higher on IQ tests than any other
ethnic group in the world (average IQ about 117), and this holds
in all countries and cultures where Ashkenazi (European Jews) have settled,
especially in the US, where they comprise about 3 percent of the
US population, yet win 34% of all Nobel prizes, comprise about
37% of the faculties of the best universities and professional schools,
own or have Jewish CEOs in charge of 8 of the 10 largest media companies,
and- lets face the facts here- control all aspects of
financial life in the US, and virtually everything else important.
It is no wonder- the IQ gap separating Jews from white gentiles is as large
as the one separating blacks from gentile whites in the US.
IQ is important- that cannot be overstated.
Dr. Efram E. Goldstein
PipePR
No, The question was , Are there studies that show a difference in IQ
scores between SEPHARDIC and Ashkenazi Jews.?
Ron McDermott
E...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Since white jews are genetically similar to other whites how do you
> account for this significant difference in intelligence, is there an
> environmental factor?
In the absence of any evidence of any kind, there are
at least a few possibilities:
1. White jews may, in fact, represent a highly intelligent
subgroup of humanity..
2. The background of white jews may be conducive to the
acquiring of superior intellect (it may be something
which can be learned).
3. Same as 2 above, except substitute "develop" for
"acquire".. It may be that certain characteristics
of the white jewish background allow for innate
intelligence to develop more completely...
If one subscribes to the concept of equality of innate
human abilities, then the answer must be either 2 or 3
above.. I personally think 3 is correct, and that the
fundamental factor is reverence for and encouragement
toward learning and education. Both of the current,
highly successful groups (jews and asians), exhibit
strong familial bonds, reverence for education and
learning, and a consequent history of learned people
(few of whom were considered nerds, geeks, and/or
dweebs by their community)....
E...@hotmail.com
On 7 Sep 1997 00:09:26 GMT, "Dr. Efram E. Goldstein"
<efr...@worldsciuni.com> wrote:
>Yes. As many studies have shown (including those referenced in
>The Bell Curve) Ashkenazi score higher on IQ tests than any other
>ethnic group in the world (average IQ about 117), and this holds
>in all countries and cultures where Ashkenazi (European Jews) have settled,
>especially in the US, where they comprise about 3 percent of the
>US population, yet win 34% of all Nobel prizes, comprise about
>37% of the faculties of the best universities and professional schools,
>own or have Jewish CEOs in charge of 8 of the 10 largest media companies,
>and- lets face the facts here- control all aspects of
>financial life in the US, and virtually everything else important.
>
>It is no wonder- the IQ gap separating Jews from white gentiles is as large
>as the one separating blacks from gentile whites in the US.
>IQ is important- that cannot be overstated.
>
>Dr. Efram E. Goldstein
Since white jews are genetically similar to other whites how do you
Dr. Efram E. Goldstein
E...@hotmail.com wrote in article
<34134ede...@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca>...
The 17 pt. average IQ advantage that
we Jews have over white gentiles is
genetic in origin, in my analysis, for the
following reasons:
1. The gap is huge; 17 pts. is more than one
standard deviation. No environmental effects are
sufficient to account for such a large difference.
As the recent review article in the journal Nature
stated, after reviewing 200 studies of twins,
environment after birth can account for no more
than 20% of IQ variation. Furthermore, the gap
between US blacks and US Jews is 35 pts.
A genetic basis for such gigantic group differences
is the only rational explanation.
2. The gap appears in all nations, languages,
cultures, environments, and cultures where
Askenazi (European) Jews have migrated. The
gap appears across all levels of socioeconomic
status, even orphaned Jews raised in concentration
camps and malnourished in youth still record
very high IQ scores.
3. Ashkenazi Jews, although genetically a subgroup of
Caucasian Europeans, do nevertheless retain some
genetic commonality- enough so that they might
be identified as a genetic population group,
or race as some use the term, although about to
the same extent as is the native population of
any European country. See the following site
for a review of Jewish genetics-
http://grendel.as.utexas.edu/jFAQ.html
Because about 30,000 to 50,000 genes contribute
to brain development (this according to the
Human Genome Project, humans have about 100,000
genes total) it is reasonable to assume
significant genetic effect on IQ variation.
4. Jews have for centuries strongly encouraged
their young adults to seek out the most intelligent
mate possible- marrying a daughter to a professor
has been a goal of Jewish families since the
middle ages. When non-Jewish mates are selected
they are always of very high intelligence,
thereby improving the Jewish gene pool.
Selective breeding for high intelligence
is a strategy that has paid off well for the
Jewish people- and that strategy continues.
No other culture values intelligence in mates as
highly as do Jewish people. It must be noted
that we Jews discourage other groups from
breeding for high intelligence- it would
endanger the Jewish IQ advantage that we use to
effectively rule the Western world.
Dr. Efram E. Goldstein
Ron McDermott
Dr. Efram E. Goldstein wrote:
>
> The 17 pt. average IQ advantage that
> we Jews have over white gentiles is
> genetic in origin, in my analysis, for the
> following reasons:
>
> 1. The gap is huge; 17 pts. is more than one
> standard deviation. No environmental effects are
> sufficient to account for such a large difference.
> As the recent review article in the journal Nature
> stated, after reviewing 200 studies of twins,
> environment after birth can account for no more
> than 20% of IQ variation. Furthermore, the gap
> between US blacks and US Jews is 35 pts.
> A genetic basis for such gigantic group differences
> is the only rational explanation.
Which is a patently ridiculous conclusion.. There are
any NUMBER of factors which can and do account for
large variations in IQ scores; not the least of which
is facility with vocabulary! Add to that a poor math
background, and I daresay you could find 50 pts or
more fluctuation simply through environment. That
doesn't even take into account lack of intellectual
stimulation in the first 3-4 years of life, prenatal
care, or early childhood nutrition! While genetics
MAY play a role, one can't discount the characteristics
which asians and jews have in common (generally): both
groups tend to have strong family structures, both have
a long history of reverence for learning, and both have
a deeply ingrained sense of responsibility to the
family and honoring of their heritage... It's probably
no surprise that they ALSO share high IQ!
Michael Turton
>4. Jews have for centuries strongly encouraged
>their young adults to seek out the most intelligent
>mate possible- marrying a daughter to a professor
>has been a goal of Jewish families since the
>middle ages. When non-Jewish mates are selected
>they are always of very high intelligence,
>thereby improving the Jewish gene pool.
>Selective breeding for high intelligence
>is a strategy that has paid off well for the
>Jewish people- and that strategy continues.
>No other culture values intelligence in mates as
>highly as do Jewish people. It must be noted
>that we Jews discourage other groups from
>breeding for high intelligence- it would
>endanger the Jewish IQ advantage that we use to
>effectively rule the Western world.
>
>Dr. Efram E. Goldstein
>
>
Tch, tch -- this isn't like your other wonderful trolls. This one
is too obvious, too crude, to blunt.
Mike
Colin Dooley
Dr. Efram E. Goldstein wrote:
>
> The 17 pt. average IQ advantage that
> we Jews have over white gentiles is
> genetic in origin, in my analysis, for the
> following reasons:
>
There is no doubt in my mind that different races think in
different ways. Anybody who has visited somewhere like
Japan will accept this without question.
This difference is genetic in origin and should be no more
surprising than the fact that different races have different
coloured skin.
The standard IQ test was devised by Mr. Hans J Eysenk (spelling?),
whose origins I leave as an exercise to the reader. Naturally
the person who devised such a test would consider himself to be
the model of "intelligence", and devise the test accordingly.
If the standard IQ test favours Jewish people, then I say the
test is no good. It should be renamed the "Jewish Test".
--
<\___/> | Everything is controlled by a small evil group to which,
/ O O \ | unfortunately, no one we know belongs.
\_____/ FTB. |
Morris
Racist groups generally focus this sort of pseudo scientific babble against
anyone non-white, together with Jews. How appalling to see someone who,
judging by his name, is of Jewish extraction, supporting these
organisations. Can he not force himself to be objective - or did six
millions Jews die for nothing. (No, I'm not Jewish, merely shocked to see
legalised hatred perpetrated by someone who should, as a scientist, and
human, be striving for the improvement of man's condition, and not certain
elements destruction).
Shame.
AAMM
Morris
Marc H. Pinsonneault
It is equally likely that this is a troll who wants people to get
angry at all Jews. Ignore the fool.
Marc Pinsonneault
--
Change x to . to get true email address.
E...@hotmail.com
On 9 Sep 1997 19:22:20 GMT, "Dr. Efram E. Goldstein"
<efr...@worldsciuni.com> wrote:
>The 17 pt. average IQ advantage that
>we Jews have over white gentiles is
>genetic in origin, in my analysis, for the
>following reasons:
>
>1. The gap is huge; 17 pts. is more than one
>standard deviation. No environmental effects are
>sufficient to account for such a large difference.
>As the recent review article in the journal Nature
>stated, after reviewing 200 studies of twins,
>environment after birth can account for no more
>than 20% of IQ variation. Furthermore, the gap
>between US blacks and US Jews is 35 pts.
>A genetic basis for such gigantic group differences
>is the only rational explanation.
You have to watch your words here. Every study by the IQ experts I
have read say something like 'environment after birth account for 20%
of the IQ' it does NOT say variation. Also the 9 months before birth
is said to account for a further 20%. This combination is given in the
'Bell curve' as 38% but a recent study based on over 200 other studies
gives it as 48%. Other studies show it to be around 60%.
>It must be noted
>that we Jews discourage other groups from
>breeding for high intelligence- it would
>endanger the Jewish IQ advantage that we use to
>effectively rule the Western world.
>
>Dr. Efram E. Goldstein
I suspected you weren't jewish in the first place, this statement
proves it. Don't you think?
Mr. Toast
Dr. Efram E. Goldstein <efr...@worldsciuni.com> wrote in article
<5v47lc$5...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
>
>
>
> E...@hotmail.com wrote in article
> <34134ede...@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca>...
> > On 7 Sep 1997 00:09:26 GMT, "Dr. Efram E. Goldstein"
> > <efr...@worldsciuni.com> wrote:
> The 17 pt. average IQ advantage that
> we Jews have over white gentiles is
> genetic in origin, in my analysis, for the
> following reasons:
This is a nit.
The 1 sd advantage (actually, 1/2 to 1 sd) Jews have
is over self identified Christians, a self selected group.
How do I put this delicately? Humm. Most Christian
religions demand of their believers that they abandon
all reason and science in favor of the unquestioning
belief in what they are told. In short, the self selection
favors those with low IQs.
I think only the Hasidic Jews require this magnitude of
disregard of science.
> 1. The gap is huge; 17 pts. is more than one
> standard deviation. No environmental effects are
> sufficient to account for such a large difference.
> As the recent review article in the journal Nature
> stated, after reviewing 200 studies of twins,
> environment after birth can account for no more
> than 20% of IQ variation. Furthermore, the gap
> between US blacks and US Jews is 35 pts.
> A genetic basis for such gigantic group differences
> is the only rational explanation.
There IS a genetic component. However, the
relationship between environment and intelligence
is not a simple one; it cannot be said that either
environment nor intelligence is entirely causal or
effect.
I've never seen it claimed (in the literature) that
intelligence could wholly be explained by just
genetics.
> 2. The gap appears in all nations, languages,
> cultures, environments, and cultures where
> Askenazi (European) Jews have migrated. The
> gap appears across all levels of socioeconomic
> status, even orphaned Jews raised in concentration
> camps and malnourished in youth still record
> very high IQ scores.
>
> 3. Ashkenazi Jews, although genetically a subgroup of
> Caucasian Europeans, do nevertheless retain some
> genetic commonality- enough so that they might
> be identified as a genetic population group,
> or race as some use the term, although about to
> the same extent as is the native population of
> any European country. See the following site
> for a review of Jewish genetics-
> http://grendel.as.utexas.edu/jFAQ.html
> Because about 30,000 to 50,000 genes contribute
> to brain development (this according to the
> Human Genome Project, humans have about 100,000
> genes total) it is reasonable to assume
> significant genetic effect on IQ variation.
>
> 4. Jews have for centuries strongly encouraged
> their young adults to seek out the most intelligent
> mate possible- marrying a daughter to a professor
> has been a goal of Jewish families since the
> middle ages. When non-Jewish mates are selected
> they are always of very high intelligence,
> thereby improving the Jewish gene pool.
> Selective breeding for high intelligence
> is a strategy that has paid off well for the
> Jewish people- and that strategy continues.
> No other culture values intelligence in mates as
> highly as do Jewish people. It must be noted
> that we Jews discourage other groups from
> breeding for high intelligence- it would
> endanger the Jewish IQ advantage that we use to
> effectively rule the Western world.
Discourage other groups from breeding for high
intelligence? Rule the western world?! Oh, man.
You kind of shot your credibility in the foot with
that one.
> Dr. Efram E. Goldstein
>
>
>
Tom Huppi
Mr. Toast wrote:
>
> Dr. Efram E. Goldstein <efr...@worldsciuni.com> wrote in article
> <5v47lc$5...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
> >
> >
> >
> > E...@hotmail.com wrote in article
> > <34134ede...@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca>...
> > > On 7 Sep 1997 00:09:26 GMT, "Dr. Efram E. Goldstein"
> > > <efr...@worldsciuni.com> wrote:
>
> > The 17 pt. average IQ advantage that
> > we Jews have over white gentiles is
> > genetic in origin, in my analysis, for the
> > following reasons:
>
> This is a nit.
>
> The 1 sd advantage (actually, 1/2 to 1 sd) Jews have
> is over self identified Christians, a self selected group.
> How do I put this delicately? Humm. Most Christian
> religions demand of their believers that they abandon
> all reason and science in favor of the unquestioning
> belief in what they are told. In short, the self selection
> favors those with low IQs.
>
> I think only the Hasidic Jews require this magnitude of
> disregard of science.
*snip*
One of the most enjoyable things (to me) in reading The Bell Curve book
was seeing how well, or how poorly the numbers lined up with my personal
estimates. Somehow Herrnstein and Murray seemed either not be able to
find much data concerning intelligence vs. propensity toward religious
beliefs, or deemed it unimportant. Since religion is defiantly an
important factor in our society, I find this omission rather grievous.
Indeed, this omission casts, in my mind, more doubt on Herrnstein and
Murray's motives than any other factor. More specifically, it makes me
wonder how influential their financial backers have been in shaping the
results.
Anyway, I was hoping that Mr. Toast, Dr G., or anyone else would have
some figures that H&M neglected. Idle speculation would also be
entertaining if nothing else :-)
--
Tom Huppi
thu...@worldnet.att.net
I also have a personal e-mail policy statement on my web site...
http://www.abode.com/t/zFAAA.html