Newsgroups: sci.physics, alt.folklore.urban
Followup-To: sci.physics, alt.folklore.urban
From: cono...@tiac.net (Harry H Conover)
Date: 1999/10/11
Subject: Re: Military Intelligence
: In article <7tt9qi$...@news-central.tiac.net>
: cono...@tiac.net (Harry H Conover) writes: : > : ... : >I purchased it from a military suplus dealer, just as I did my copy : >of a 'Davy Crockett' tactical nuke technical manual that is also : >labled 'Restricted'. [This is quite a read. Picture a tactical : >nuke that is fired on any enemy position from what is essentially : >a recoil-less rifle configuration. ... : : That must be some surplus shop you go to. ;-) Indeed it was, until they were shut down by by govenment for some If it helps, they were located directly adjacient to the Monroe For me at the time, this was just another of many surplus junk shops, Rochester had another fantastic surplus dealer, whose facilities were Fact is, I consider Rochester, N.Y. to be the surplus capital of the I moved from Rochester to the Boston area something like 20 years ago, Harry C. You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: sci.physics, alt.folklore.urban
From: "james d. hunter" <jim.hun...@jhuapl.edu>
Date: 1999/10/11
Subject: Re: Military Intelligence
I think the main difference between secrets and secret data
is that people who steal secret data, whether military or civilian, have a stronger propensity to show up dead rather than alive. You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: sci.physics, alt.folklore.urban
From: "james d. hunter" <jim.hun...@jhuapl.edu>
Date: 1999/10/11
Subject: Re: Military Intelligence
No, I didn't know that "Restricted Data" was actually a legal term.
I was trying to explain the philosophy of classifications, and why they are like that rather than the legalese of it. > It's hard to say. Classification systems for military and civilian --- You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: sci.physics, alt.folklore.urban
From: j...@ibms48.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Date: 1999/10/12
Subject: Re: Military Intelligence
Harry H Conover wrote: Harry, Paul posted } } Randy Poe (q...@dgsys.com) wrote: } : } : Paul Tomblin wrote: } : > are "S-RD", } : } : Secret - Restricted Data } : which means nuke. } } Yes and no. It pays never to assume. http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/alcm_scg.htm to answer this "yes-and-no" implied question of yours. } I'll be honest, although I worked in military weapon and C3I systems In article <38024F5C.E3C90...@jhuapl.edu> } (mostly classified) for a total of over 15-years, I have absolutely } no clue what "S-RD" denotes. jim.hun...@spam.free.jhuapl.edu. writes: Apparently neither of you know that "Restricted Data" and "Formerly > I think the main difference between secrets and secret data Restricted Data" are terms defined in US law that describe specific categories of information that are classified because they involve nuclear weapons in one way or another. That law includes the 'born secret' philosophy that made clever guessing a crime. In contrast, guessing at something that is just plain classified (e.g. Ultra) is treated differently. I found it interesting that they did not classify some things as -- You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: sci.physics, alt.folklore.urban
From: Randy Poe <q...@dgsys.com>
Date: 1999/10/11
Subject: Re: Military Intelligence
Harry H Conover wrote: I'm not assuming. S-RD is Secret - Restricted Data. Jim Carr > Randy Poe (q...@dgsys.com) wrote: > Yes and no. It pays never to assume. has a full explanation of not only RD but FRD (Formerly Restricted Data). When listing documents in short form, such as a bibliography, short codes for the security restrictions are used: U, C, S, TS for Unclassified, Confidential, Secret and Top Secret. There are also various special restricted classes, of which RD is one. You can have a Secret clearance and still not be cleared for one of these special categories. That's "special," not to be confused with the word > I'll be honest, although I worked in military weapon and C3I systems Well, you likely didn't run across any nuclear data. Another > (mostly classified) for a total of over 15-years, I have absolutely > no clue what "S-RD" denotes. nuke-related stamp is CNWDI (critical nuclear weapons something). > Also, I have never heard of "The Security Classification Guide" to which I've never seen a single document called "The Security > Paul refers. Classification Guide", but there were individual Classification Guides (called DD-9s, IIRC) for separate contracts, which could be consulted for deciding the classification of particular pieces of info. Although as contractors, we technically didn't have the power to make classification decisions, the practical requirements of day-to-day work mean that you have to make a reasonable guess so you know which safe to throw your report in at the end of the day. > In general, the recognized terms (those whose violation can get you The party line is that "there is nothing higher than Top > convicted of espionage) are Confidential, Secret, Top Secret and some > SCI unique modifiers that don't detract from the legal significance > of the first three. Secret." Additional restrictions such as SCI and Crypto are, according to security folks, just "need to know" restrictions. Sort of sideways slices of the levels of classification. Surely you saw the above-mentioned (U), (C), (S), (TS) on My favorite, from a table of contents, was something like > (You see many military tech manuals labeled as You also see FOUO (For Official Use Only) which, I believe, > 'Restricted', yet the term has little legal significance alone.) does carry legal significance. - Randy You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: sci.physics, alt.folklore.urban
From: j...@ibms48.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Date: 1999/10/11
Subject: Re: Military Intelligence
In a previous article, ehr...@his.com (Edward Rice) said:
} In article <7tq5jq$gc...@piper.xcski.com> } In article <7tfmhp$f5...@piper.xcski.com>, } ptomb...@piper.xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote: } >that nuclear cruise missiles add to strategic arms limitation treaties, } >the warhead on an air launched cruise missle is approximately 120 pounds. } } Paul, when we were using Tomahawks and ALCMs against Bosnia (or was it } Iraq? or was it Serbia? or was it Iraq the second time?), the figures } were published and the poundage is actually pretty high. I vaguely recall } that the ALCM warhead was about 200# heavier than a Tomahawk warhead, and } each was at least an order of magnitude above your "approximately 120 } pounds." ptomb...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) writes: Sorry, but claiming you cannot discuss a topic because it is PARD >Well, maybe I'm wrong about that, or maybe I'm not. The Security after already making an authoriative statement about that topic strikes me as rather odd. As for the web, you should know about Carey Sublette's wonderful effort It would not surprise me if the amount of modern high explosive required >However, there are "backpack" nukes - the Russians have already admitted that A Russian said this. How reliable his statement is, and whether it >they've lost track of several. So the danger is there. reflects a bookkeeping problem akin to all the weapons grade Pu that is "missing" in the US or is a real problem, remains unknown. Is there an offical Russian government statement on this? -- You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: sci.physics, alt.folklore.urban
From: ptomb...@piper.xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: 1999/10/11
Subject: Re: Military Intelligence
In a previous article, j...@ibms48.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr) said:
>} In article <7tfmhp$f5...@piper.xcski.com>, Note how you very carefully snipped the first part of that sentence in the >} ptomb...@piper.xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote: >} >that nuclear cruise missiles add to strategic arms limitation treaties, >} >the warhead on an air launched cruise missle is approximately 120 pounds. >In article <7tq5jq$gc...@piper.xcski.com> >ptomb...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) writes: >>Well, maybe I'm wrong about that, or maybe I'm not. The Security > Sorry, but claiming you cannot discuss a topic because it is PARD first article, where I said " According to a Scientific American article many years ago about the problems". So how is my quoting a barely remembered Sci Am article "making an authoriative(sic) statement"? The fact that it's S-RD means it's not going to be easy for me to authoratively confirm or deny that figure. Or are you just an asshole trying to stir up trouble? -- You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: sci.physics, alt.folklore.urban
From: ptomb...@piper.xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: 1999/10/11
Subject: Re: Military Intelligence
In a previous article, ptomb...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) said:
>In a previous article, j...@ibms48.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr) said: My apologies, it wasn't you who snipped off the sentence, but somebody before >>} In article <7tfmhp$f5...@piper.xcski.com>, >>} ptomb...@piper.xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote: >>} >that nuclear cruise missiles add to strategic arms limitation treaties, >>} >the warhead on an air launched cruise missle is approximately 120 pounds. >Note how you very carefully snipped the first part of that sentence in the you in the thread. But that does illustrate why you should read the ORIGINAL of a post, rather than somebody else's quoting of it, before flaming the poster. -- You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: sci.physics, alt.folklore.urban
From: j...@ibms48.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Date: 1999/10/11
Subject: Re: Military Intelligence
In a previous article, ptomb...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) said:
: : In a previous article, j...@ibms48.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr) said: : >} In article <7tfmhp$f5...@piper.xcski.com>, : >} ptomb...@piper.xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote: : >} >that nuclear cruise missiles add to strategic arms limitation treaties, : >} >the warhead on an air launched cruise missle is approximately 120 pounds. : : Note how you very carefully snipped the first part of that sentence in the : first article, where I said " According to a Scientific American article many In article <7tt41o$qa...@piper.xcski.com> ptomb...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) writes: No problem, even though a quick check with dejanews at the sequence >My apologies, it wasn't you who snipped off the sentence, but somebody before http://www.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=534934757&fmt=text shows that it was *you* who snipped off the sentence, not the If you had just repeated that you were working from memory of a public -- You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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Newsgroups: sci.physics, alt.folklore.urban
From: me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
Date: 1999/10/10
Subject: Re: Military Intelligence
Of course. These were conventional warheads. You're not going to
send a cruise missile few hundred miles to deliver 120 pounds of conventional explosive. Would've been downright silly. Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool, You must Sign in before you can post messages.
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