Message from discussion Einstein - Greatest Human to have ever existed.
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From: "Paul B. Andersen" <some...@somewhere.no>
Subject: Re: Einstein - Greatest Human to have ever existed.
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:07:56 +0200
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On 04.10.2012 07:38, Koobee Wublee wrote:
> On Oct 1, 11:09 pm, Jud Pewther <jpewt...@aol.com> wrote:
>> I've noticed that Paul B.
>> Andersen does have a very good grasp of it, and spends a lot of time
>> with the hopeless task of trying to correct the nitwits.
> That very small professor from the Trondheim University in Norway whom
> you hailed as a defender of the religion known as Special and General
> Relativity does not even understand the simple Galilean transform. It
> is so evident in his JAVA applet about lack of the twins’ paradox in
> which he played mathematical tricks on the parties involved in a
> transform. With you being very rusty, naturally, you are bedazzled by
> small professor andersen’s mathemagics. <shrug>
> Oh, the very small professor once told me that why time dilation
> needed to be corrected in a GPS receiver is because of the Doppler
> shift in the downlink carrier frequency.
Koobee Wublee has repeated over and over that he thinks
the reason for the GR correction is that the frequencies
received by the receiver should be correct.
Here is what I once told him:
(Actually I have told him a number of times, to no avail,
as this posting of his demonstrates.)
From where I quote:
| Koobee Wublee wrote:
|> Let's see. The P-code chipping rate on board the satellite is
|> programmed to 10.22999999543MHz. The receiver just has to assume a
|> chipping rate of 10.23MHz ever with accuracy so much compromised to
|> lower the cost down to bare-bone. Both the P-code chipping rate on
|> board the satellite and the P-code chipping rate in the receiver do
|> not have to be adjusted ever. So, how does this 38uSec per day come
|> in? Do you not realize a 38uSec per day is very much different from
|> -4,4647E-10 (no units)?
|>I also would like to leave a homework assignment for you, our twisted
|> professor from Norway, on how the difference in 10.22999999543MHz
|> versus 10.23000000000MHz of P-code chipping rate would affect the
|> accuracy of GPS acquisition.
| Paul B. Andersen responded:
| The difference in the chipping rate is of course of no consequence,
| the Doppler shift at the receiver is vastly greater than this anyway.
| From whence did you get the idiotic idea that anybody would claim
| this small change in the chipping rate to be of any consequence?
| It is completely beside the point!
|_The reason why this shift has to be done is because of the SV clock!_
| Only one frequency standard is used at any time in the satellites.
| (there are three standards, the best of them is at any time used)
| This one frequency standard is used for _everything_ in
| the satellite, including the clock.
| The SV clock ticks out one second every 10230000 cycles from
| this standard. (a frequency synthesizer is obviously used).
| Now the correction is delta_f/f = -4.4647E-10, that means
| that the corrected frequency f' = (1 - 4.4647E-10)*f
| (1 - 4.4647E-10)*10.23000000000MHz = 10.22999999543MHz
| So what about the 38us?
| There are 86400 seconds in a day.
| 86400*4.4647E-10 sec = 385750.08E-10 sec = 38.575008E-6 ~= 38 us
| Got it?
| The important point is that if the SV clock rates were not corrected,
| they would drift out of sync from GPS time after few minutes.
| The clocks have to be in sync within 100 ns for the GPS to work.
| Koobee Wublee wrote:
|> Speaking of the gravitational time dilation as predicted by GR, Mr.
|> Dual-Space's hypothesis championed by some John Polak-something, and
|> others, how would this relativistic effect affect the tuning of the
|> carrier frequencies, L1 (1.57542GHz) and L2 (1.2276GHz)? The answer
|> is none. You need to understand how engineers work. <shrug>
| Paul B. Andersen responded:
| This is completely beside the point.
| Anybody with the slightest knowledge of radio engineering will
| understand that the carrier frequencies received by the receivers
| are Doppler shifted order of magnitudes more than the minute
| GR correction.
| The satellites are moving!
| So what?
| Why did you think that this should be of any consequence?
| The bandwidths of the channels are 20.46 MHz, so the GR-correction
| and the much bigger Doppler shifts are small compared to
| the bandwidth.
| The only way GR comes into the GPS is in the correction of
| the frequency standard, which is necessary to keep the SV clocks
| in sync with GPS-time within 100 ns during each time the clock
| can be corrected from the ground (once a day).
| BOTTOM LINE:
| Without the GR-correction, the clocks would drift out of
| sync by 38us - hundreds of times more than can be tolerated -
| between each time the clocks are corrected from the ground.
| Got it?
| It shouldn't be hard to get unless you are a complete moron.
| And the receivers don't have to worry about the GR-correction!
| They can safely assume that the time reported by the satellite
| is correct. (Which it is - because of the GR-correction.)
> On site, the mathemaGician
> was caught red-handedly. In the academics, he can get away with it.
> However, in the industry, there is no room for mathemaGics and
> fraudulence. He was once working in one of these ubiquitous wireless
> (IEEE802.15.4 or blue tooth) startups in Norway. Now, he is in the
> academics producing piles of bullshit. Go figure. <shrug>
Still sore, Koobee? :-)
I can understand why.
I have caught quite a few of your many blunders, and I love it
when you give me an opportunity to remind you of them.
So please do.
Maybe a new round on stellar aberration? :-)