Is a moon based needed to go to Mars?
Rushtown
will the International Space Station help to eventually put people on
Mars?
Critics say "no". A mission to Mars will not take off from the moon,
but will be assembled in Earth orbit and leave from there.
IMHO going to the moon again and building the space station will help
by giving the US (and probably Russia, China, and the European Union,
ie a joint mission) the needed expertise in construction and living in
space. In fact this expertise will probably be vital to a successful
base on Mars.
I have not seen this justification presented when NASA defends the new
moon project.
Osmium
Oops, sorry for the misspelling.
PS. Building a permanent base on the moon will involve solving the
problems caused by fine gritty surface material (I can't call it
soil), and by cosmic rays. But water won't be a problem on Mars.
Jan Panteltje
<Rush...@aol.com> wrote in
<f401628e-b060-4151...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>:
>Why do we need to go back to the moon in order to go to Mars?
Von Braun's proposal for a mars mission needed no moon base.
>And
>will the International Space Station help to eventually put people on
>Mars?
Dunno.
>Critics say "no".
>A mission to Mars will not take off from the moon,
>but will be assembled in Earth orbit and leave from there.
>IMHO going to the moon again and building the space station will help
>by giving the US (and probably Russia, China, and the European Union,
>ie a joint mission) the needed expertise in construction and living in
>space. In fact this expertise will probably be vital to a successful
>base on Mars.
>I have not seen this justification presented when NASA defends the new
>moon project.
It is political, a Bush proposal, many other things he did like imagining
weapons of mass destruction in Iraq turned out to be wrong too.
G=EMC^2 Glazier
time. It is just about as interesting as our moon. Dry cold desert that
never had life,as proven by our Mars rovers Bert
Sam Wormley
Just because the MERs found nothing on less than millionth of Mars
surface, proves nothing Herb. I'm glad you were never a scientist!
Jan Panteltje
herbert...@webtv.net (G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote in
<20646-483...@storefull-3336.bay.webtv.net>:
>Astronauts need never to go to Mars its to far away and a waste of
>time. It is just about as interesting as our moon. Dry cold desert that
>never had life,as proven by our Mars rovers Bert
Maybe at one point we better have some planet to move to, if things
get out of hand here.
Mars may not be far away enough, maybe one around a distant star.
As to 'no life', well, have a look at Dr Levin's website, he is the one
from the old Viking experiments to detect life on mars, experiments
that were positive.
http://mars.spherix.com/mars.html
There is a lot of papers there if you follow the links.
And there may actually be water on mars (true color pictures):
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/space/mars/lake2color.jpg
This was enlarged from this original ESA image:
http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=34508
Russian scientists detected chlorophyll in spectra taken from the mars
atmosphere, suggesting active plant life.
Well, Herbert, let us hope the lander tomorrow does work, it has a microscope.
Uncle Al
>
> Why do we need to go back to the moon in order to go to Mars?
Why are rockets staged? Why are Press Conferences staged?
No primate goes to Mars and survives the round trip - little things
like cosmic radiation and solar flares. Feeding a manned Mars mission
is vexatious. Five people, 930 days, three meals/day... MRE packaging
recycle bins for 14,000 meals would be bigger than the space vessel
itself.
Uncle Al can handsomely feed the asstronaughts with six 55 gallon
drums and five calibrated spoons, plus one (initially) empty drum.
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/numba2.htm
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
Robert J. Kolker
The moon is close enough to reach and use. The farside of the Moon would
be a wonderful place to build observatories operating in every feasible
spectrum. Since the far side is not lit up by earth shine it could be
used a good part of the month. The moon is also a great place for launch
rocks (heavy items) propelled by and electromagnetic rail gun. A rock
hitting the earth at over 20,000 mph is a very good bomb and it does not
produce radioactive fallout. As the say in military parlance -- Take the
High Ground.
Bob Kolker
Robert J. Kolker
That is true. The landers missed out on all the great beaches, gambling
casinos and hotels that the Martians have built.
Bob Kolker
Robert J. Kolker
>
>
> Russian scientists detected chlorophyll in spectra taken from the mars
> atmosphere, suggesting active plant life.
Great. In a place without a drop of water, too.
Bob Kolker
Sam Wormley
> On a sunny day (Sat, 24 May 2008 15:41:32 -0400) it happened
> herbert...@webtv.net (G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote in
> <20646-483...@storefull-3336.bay.webtv.net>:
>
>> Astronauts need never to go to Mars its to far away and a waste of
>> time. It is just about as interesting as our moon. Dry cold desert that
>> never had life,as proven by our Mars rovers Bert
>
> Maybe at one point we better have some planet to move to, if things
> get out of hand here.
> Mars may not be far away enough, maybe one around a distant star.
>
> As to 'no life', well, have a look at Dr Levin's website, he is the one
> from the old Viking experiments to detect life on mars, experiments
> that were positive.
> http://mars.spherix.com/mars.html
> There is a lot of papers there if you follow the links.
>
> And there may actually be water on mars (true color pictures):
> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/space/mars/lake2color.jpg
The Martian atmosphere is redish, not bluish, Jan!
Osmium
> Rushtown wrote:
>
> > Why do we need to go back to the moon in order to go to Mars?
>
> [snip]
>
> Why are rockets staged? �Why are Press Conferences staged?
>
> No primate goes to Mars and survives the round trip - little things
> like cosmic radiation and solar flares. �Feeding a manned Mars mission
> is vexatious. �Five people, 930 days, three meals/day... MRE packaging
> recycle bins for 14,000 meals would be bigger than the space vessel
> itself.
>
> Uncle Al can handsomely feed the asstronaughts with six 55 gallon
> drums and five calibrated spoons, plus one (initially) empty drum.
>
> http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/numba2.htm
>
> --
> �(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
There's water on Mars. In "The Case for Mars" it was shown that we
can manufacture fuel while there, grow vegetables, and not have to
bring our water along. Maybe it's not that difficult.
And the day after tomorrow we might find out that there's life on
Mars.
Jan Panteltje
<swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in <CF4_j.178676$yE1.51504@attbi_s21>:
>
>> As to 'no life', well, have a look at Dr Levin's website, he is the one
>> from the old Viking experiments to detect life on mars, experiments
>> that were positive.
>> http://mars.spherix.com/mars.html
>> There is a lot of papers there if you follow the links.
>>
>> And there may actually be water on mars (true color pictures):
>> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/space/mars/lake2color.jpg
>
> The Martian atmosphere is redish, not bluish, Jan!
And how does that relate to what I wrote?
I hope you did read the papers on martian camera color calibration at the spherix site.
Color Calibration of the Martian images:
http://mars.spherix.com/5555-29.PDF
Color Calibration of Spirit and Opportunity Rover Images:
http://mars.spherix.com/5555-30.PDF
Solving the color calibration problem of Martian lander images:
http://mars.spherix.com/spie2003/SPIE_2003_Color_Paper.htm
From that you will see that things are not so simple.
Jan Panteltje
<Uncl...@hate.spam.net> wrote in <4838895D...@hate.spam.net>:
>Rushtown wrote:
>>
>> Why do we need to go back to the moon in order to go to Mars?
>[snip]
>
>Why are rockets staged? Why are Press Conferences staged?
>
>No primate goes to Mars and survives the round trip - little things
>like cosmic radiation and solar flares.
Neil Amstrong is still alive....
Primates are strong :-)
Their have been several proposals for protection systems, one
of those is creating a plasma IIRC.
Feeding a manned Mars mission
>is vexatious. Five people, 930 days, three meals/day... MRE packaging
>recycle bins for 14,000 meals would be bigger than the space vessel
>itself.
No problem, launch first, pick up in orbit.
pant...@yahoo.com
A true scientists believes the data, a bad one rejects data based on
his concepts of reality.
A typical example is the Viking life detection experiment.
Although positive, it was rejected because of possible political +
religious forces.
And weird explanations were dreamed of to explain the results using
the most unlikely feeble science.
So, peer review found the experiment good enough to fly on the
Vikings,
but once it returned positive results the forces in power had it
denied.
This is human nature, we need a shock wave to get rid of Pope like
figures
a pope that told Hawkins 'do not look what happened before the big
bang, as big bang fits so nice in a
creation scheme'.
I have that from Hawkins in a TV program about him.
And the earth was flat UNTIL there was gold to be robbed from the
Incas.
If you had payed attention you would have noticed all the reports
about
subsurface water, and geological activity, geysers, etc, on mars.
G=EMC^2 Glazier
tested. If educated I would be a great physicist. I'm very clever as
you know. I give NASA credit for its Mars probes. Mars is a planet
for robots. Man is to fragile and needs to many systems for survival.
I'm not just thinking of the shuttles $25,000,000 toilets. Mars
erosions are caused by sAND STORMS. that can cover the planet. NASA
tells us it was caused by running water "Once upon a time" Oh ya Bert
PS The Moon is just 3 days away,but once the Mafia shuttle took over
from the Apollo Saturn V it was 60 years away
Sam Wormley
You being surrounded by Mafia, Herb, how do I know they tell you
what to write?
G=EMC^2 Glazier
only 1% of Earth's tells you Sam the reason why molecules of water are
impossible to exist on its surface. You Sam have not the brains(wit) to
know this is reality. NASA arouses interest by saying "water on Mars"
NASA Godfather knows there is no money in sand NASA treats the public
like children,and that is the reason it likes to begin with "Once upon a
time billions of years ago" Mars was like Earth Closer to the Sun
Running water Rivers and huge lakes. Lots of plant life etc. Oh ya
They do it with a press conference It is well thought out "con" its
their PR to get "MONEY" They fool people like you Sam So you will
know that Mars atmosphere has no color here is what it is made of 95%
carbon dioxide 2.7 % nitrogen 1.6 % argon other 0.7% You Sam
could never call yourself a scientist. You can call yourself a
parrot.(Google brain) That fits Bert
Sam Wormley
> Sam The surface is reddish,and not the atmosphere.
G=EMC^2 Glazier
G=EMC^2 Glazier
Here is a well know fact. My Osceola sheriff "Bob' Hansel sent a deputy
"Edward Flores" to my house and he threatened my life if I did not stop
bad mouthing "Severn Trent" water,and Severn Trent Avatar Severn
Trent is Mafia as told to me by the Tampa FBI back in 1999. In Florida
Severn Trent and the republican party are two sides to the same coin.
The Mafia other utility company is "Progress Energy"(electric) Severn
Trent answers to no one. They are the power and the glory. The Florida
Attorney General asked me this me a few years ago. "Mr Glazier who
would you rather have own Florida "THe Arabs or the Mafia.? That is the
way it is here Sad but true Bert
Osmium
> On a sunny day (Sat, 24 May 2008 14:32:13 -0700) it happened Uncle Al
>
> >Rushtown wrote:
>
> >> Why do we need to go back to the moon in order to go to Mars?
> >[snip]
>
> >Why are rockets staged? �Why are Press Conferences staged?
>
> >No primate goes to Mars and survives the round trip - little things
> >like cosmic radiation and solar flares.
>
> Neil Amstrong is still alive....
> Primates are strong :-)
>
> Their have been several proposals for protection systems, one
> of those is creating a plasma IIRC.
>
> � Feeding a manned Mars mission
>
> >is vexatious. �Five people, 930 days, three meals/day... MRE packaging
> >recycle bins for 14,000 meals would be bigger than the space vessel
> >itself.
>
> No problem, launch first, pick up in orbit.
Actually a Mars mission is within our capability today. Imagine
taking all the money spend on the Iraq war and building a huge space
station. Except that space station would really be a Mars expedition
vehicle. It would consist of a spinning wheel part (ala, Disney, Von
Braun, circa 1955) for simulated gravity,excursion vehicles, and a
cosmic ray storm cellar.
Anyway, after taking a few years to assemble the monster it could be
gradually accellerated out of Earth orbit to Mars orbit. Mars could
then be explored from this mothership.
Maybe it would take more than the amount of money spend on the Iraq
war---how about 1/2 of the defense budgets of the US, Russia, and
China?
My point is that a Mars mission is well within our engineering
capability right now. The difficulty everyone assumes is doing it on
the paltry budgets allowed for space.
Sam Wormley
The Arabs wouldn't let you wear shorts, Herb.
Sam Wormley
> Sam Clouds of dust Bert
>
Freyed Knot Herb
Uncle Al
>
> On May 24, 2:32�pm, Uncle Al <Uncle...@hate.spam.net> wrote:
> > Rushtown wrote:
> >
> > > Why do we need to go back to the moon in order to go to Mars?
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > Why are rockets staged? �Why are Press Conferences staged?
> >
> > No primate goes to Mars and survives the round trip - little things
> > like cosmic radiation and solar flares. �Feeding a manned Mars mission
> > is vexatious. �Five people, 930 days, three meals/day... MRE packaging
> > recycle bins for 14,000 meals would be bigger than the space vessel
> > itself.
> >
> > Uncle Al can handsomely feed the asstronaughts with six 55 gallon
> > drums and five calibrated spoons, plus one (initially) empty drum.
> >
> > http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/numba2.htm
> can manufacture fuel while there, grow vegetables, and not have to
> bring our water along. Maybe it's not that difficult.
> And the day after tomorrow we might find out that there's life on
> Mars.
That is simply crap. Equatorial Mars is intensely desiccated. Polar
Mars is too damned cold. 7 torr atmospheric pressure means pressure
suits and unfiltered solar hard UV. Mars is a rock.
You still must survive getting there, somebody must pay the bills, and
there is no cashflow advantage to be had for having done it. The
singular discrete payback from the Apollo moon landings was corner
cube arrays allowing lunar laser ranging. Regolith returned sits in
boxes, bored.
No human goes anywhere in the inner solar system, much less the
galaxy, unless and until somebody massively reinvents physics. If
there are no loopholes to be had, if there is no defining superset of
existing theory to be discovered, First World civilization will be
dead by 2050 (absolute end of petroleum) and likely burning by 2015
(collapse of the Welfare State with Baby Boomer retirement).
--
Uncle Al
Coater
possible?
Maybe we'd get this going long before we could put together and execute a
'conventional' mission?
http://www.hpcc-space.com/publications/documents/JHSarod2005.pdf
"Uncle Al" <Uncl...@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:4839B36E...@hate.spam.net...
G=EMC^2 Glazier
sunset too. Go figure
G=EMC^2 Glazier
will make us wear cheap wal-mart Sneakers,and jog to work. Each month
now that gas is over 4 bucks the Arabs can buy a state like Florida
every 6 months They will have to buy it from the republican Mafia that
own it now Go figure Bert
Sam Wormley
Move to Texas, Herb.
Sam Wormley
> Mars red atmosphere made of colorless gas Go figure. LA has a red
> sunset too. Go figure
>
Mars' atmosphere, like all planetary figures, scatters light.
You can either figure... or you can look it up.... go to the library, Herb!
Keep your pants up!
G=EMC^2 Glazier
safe for me there at all Reality is the Enrod crooks(executives) are
now living in Boca Grande Florida in 15,000,000 dollar homes and gov.
Charlie Crist gives them protection from all their retirement employees
they stole their retirement money Sad but its documented Bert
G=EMC^2 Glazier
so you can be realistic Go Figure Bert