FYI - Long Term Future of GPS
Sam Wormley
http://pnt.gov/public/2008/2008-01-NTM/crews.pdf
Col. Mark Crews, U.S. Air Force
This briefing provides an update on the GPS
modernization program and provides a glimpse of
future capabilities beyond GPS III.
hhc...@yahoo.com
Sam, I must admit of being critical of the military's increasing
reliance on GPS guidance for critical attack missions.
The problem to me is that the GPS satellites are so trivial to shot
out of the sky, by even second world launched missiles shot from
fighter aircraft. If you take "n" satellites out of a GPS
constellation, the remainder are useless for military guidance
applications.
Harry C.
V a p o l l u a n
news:bbd00940-fc0e-4f30...@v67g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Harry C.
Who has demonstrated that capability?China's recent feat wasnt all that
spectacular, although it is something to plan for.
http://blog.wired.com/defense/eye_on_china/index.html
Tom Potter
"Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:_IFqj.19773$yE1.18457@attbi_s21...
As can be seen by Sam's reference,
the thrust of America's future GPS effort
is directed toward getting Washington decision makers
to realize that the emerging GPS systems of Russia, Europe,
and China represent a serious threat to the $20,000,000,000.00
and rapidly growing commercial GPS market,
now dominated by America,
and that policies must be made to
hype the American GPS system,
and to get Russia, Europe and China to adopt America
standards for future generation GPS systems,
so that America will not be eliminated from the GPS markets
in the near future.
As I pointed out when Bush was hyping the invasion of Iraq,
America had little to gain and much to lose,
by waging a unilateral, unprovoked war against a small, defenseless nation,
and that nations would begin to detach from America
diplomatically, militarily, financially, and commercially,
and develop their own GPS and Internet systems.
--
Tom Potter
http://www.geocities.com/tdp1001/index.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://notsocrazyideas.blogspot.com
http://groups.msn.com/PotterPhotos
Sam Wormley
Trivial at 4 earth radii?
And would we standby after one of 32 was damaged?
Sam Wormley
>
> "Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
> news:_IFqj.19773$yE1.18457@attbi_s21...
>> Long Term Future of GPS
>> http://pnt.gov/public/2008/2008-01-NTM/crews.pdf
>>
>> Col. Mark Crews, U.S. Air Force
>>
>> This briefing provides an update on the GPS
>> modernization program and provides a glimpse of
>> future capabilities beyond GPS III.
>
> As can be seen by Sam's reference,
> the thrust of America's future GPS effort
> is directed toward getting Washington decision makers
> to realize that the emerging GPS systems of Russia, Europe,
> and China represent a serious threat to the $20,000,000,000.00
> and rapidly growing commercial GPS market,
> now dominated by America,
>
> and that policies must be made to
> hype the American GPS system,
> and to get Russia, Europe and China to adopt America
> standards for future generation GPS systems,
> so that America will not be eliminated from the GPS markets
> in the near future.
Don't mistake hype for reliable capability, Potter.
You froth so easily.
Tom Potter
> Tom Potter wrote:
>>
>> "Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
>> news:_IFqj.19773$yE1.18457@attbi_s21...
>>> Long Term Future of GPS
>>> http://pnt.gov/public/2008/2008-01-NTM/crews.pdf
>>>
>>> Col. Mark Crews, U.S. Air Force
>>>
>>> This briefing provides an update on the GPS
>>> modernization program and provides a glimpse of
>>> future capabilities beyond GPS III.
>>
>> As can be seen by Sam's reference,
>> the thrust of America's future GPS effort
>> is directed toward getting Washington decision makers
>> to realize that the emerging GPS systems of Russia, Europe,
>> and China represent a serious threat to the $20,000,000,000.00
>> and rapidly growing commercial GPS market,
>> now dominated by America,
>>
>> and that policies must be made to
>> hype the American GPS system,
>> and to get Russia, Europe and China to adopt America
>> standards for future generation GPS systems,
>> so that America will not be eliminated from the GPS markets
>> in the near future.
>
> Don't mistake hype for reliable capability, Potter.
> You froth so easily.
Wake up Sam!
The GPS system is accurate and reliable,
BUT.....
Europe, Russia, and China are launching their own
GPS systems, they, and all Muslim nations,
and many Latin American and African nations will
abandon the American system,
because they don't trust America anymore,
as they fear that America might degrade the system at any time,
and create havoc for them, their planes, ships, vehicles,
and all the systems that depend upon the GPS System.
Unless something drastic is done:
1. American manufacturers will lose hundreds of
billions dollars in sales.
2. The American military will not have a monopoly on
the world's navigation.
3. More GPS research and development will go into
non-American systems as that will be where the market is going.
4. The American military will lose out
as more of the world's resources focus on non-American
GPS systems, and more devices, systems, software and techniques
are funneled into non-American systems.
The military found out that in house, Mil Spec devices
and systems cannot not compete with free market creativity,
and it now depends upon the use of free market devices
and systems. In ten years the military of the nations that
abandon the American GPS system will have more
devices, technology, software, and technology to play with,
and they will be able to manufacture weapon systems
that are faster, cheaper, lighter, more accurate,
and less affected by artifact.
Anyone with a good reading comprehension can plainly see
that your reference indicates that the American GPS Guru's
are eyeball to eyeball to the other systems,
and they have blinked! ( And wisely so. )
Face the facts Sam.
Few nations in the world respect and trust America anymore.
GPS flight will compound Dollar flight
and national power flight.
Frankly, I don't think they will be able to
save the American GPS system,
and in ten or fifteen years it will be only used by the American
military, and it will be a more costly and less effective system.
The smartest thing the American military can do,
is start hedging their bets, by adapting to the other systems.
First the world, and then Americans,
will migrate to the non-American GPS systems,
and unless they adapt, the American military will
be left with a costly, inferior system.
Sam Wormley
Why would they?
Do any other systems work?
Who's using these other systems?
>
> because they don't trust America anymore,
> as they fear that America might degrade the system at any time,
> and create havoc for them, their planes, ships, vehicles,
> and all the systems that depend upon the GPS System.
Bullshit on your part, Potter.
>
> Unless something drastic is done:
>
> 1. American manufacturers will lose hundreds of
> billions dollars in sales.
Not happening Potter!
GNSS receivers are built by companies all over
the world now!
>
> 2. The American military will not have a monopoly on
> the world's navigation.
Interoperability will benefit even the military.
>
> 3. More GPS research and development will go into
> non-American systems as that will be where the market is going.
GPS research and development has always been a global
phenomenon.
>
> 4. The American military will lose out
> as more of the world's resources focus on non-American
> GPS systems, and more devices, systems, software and techniques
> are funneled into non-American systems.
The military loses nothing... there are no revenues
to the military.
>
> The military found out that in house, Mil Spec devices
> and systems cannot not compete with free market creativity,
> and it now depends upon the use of free market devices
> and systems. In ten years the military of the nations that
> abandon the American GPS system will have more
> devices, technology, software, and technology to play with,
> and they will be able to manufacture weapon systems
> that are faster, cheaper, lighter, more accurate,
> and less affected by artifact.
The military loses nothing... there are no revenues
to the military. Get a grip Potter.
>
> Anyone with a good reading comprehension can plainly see
> that your reference indicates that the American GPS Guru's
> are eyeball to eyeball to the other systems,
> and they have blinked! ( And wisely so. )
You should read...
Long Term Future of GPS
http://pnt.gov/public/2008/2008-01-NTM/crews.pdf
Includes other GNSS signal info
>
> Face the facts Sam.
> Few nations in the world respect and trust America anymore.
They sure do invest in the US, Potter
>
> GPS flight will compound Dollar flight
> and national power flight.
Make your case!
>
> Frankly, I don't think they will be able to
> save the American GPS system,
> and in ten or fifteen years it will be only used by the American
> military, and it will be a more costly and less effective system.
Free to users world wide. Reliable and robust.
>
> The smartest thing the American military can do,
> is start hedging their bets, by adapting to the other systems.
Are there any other reliable working systems? Eh Potter?
>
> First the world, and then Americans,
> will migrate to the non-American GPS systems,
> and unless they adapt, the American military will
> be left with a costly, inferior system.
Free to users world wide. Reliable and robust.
Potter fails to grasp the most basic concepts.
Pity Potter!
Sam Wormley
Dark Matter is matter the does not interact electromagnetically...
what's so hard about you wrapping your brain around that simple
concept, John? Too old?
hhc...@yahoo.com
<onethirtyse...@archangels.mil> wrote:
>
> Who has demonstrated that capability?China's recent feat wasnt all that
> spectacular, although it is something to plan for.
That capability was demonstrated by the US roughly 3 years ago. Given
the ongoing rate of technology theft, all the world likely could have
the GPS killer technolgy today.
Realize that all GPS birds orbit in fixed constellations, which make
them sitting ducks for any weapon capable of reaching their orbital
altitude. Actually, not at all a difficult task if you fire the killer
missile from an aircraft flying at 50,000 feet or higher.
Then too, one shouldn't ignore the capabilities of all electronic
means today, since the availability of a compromised command sequence
could immediately shut down operation of all GPS birds in a matter of
milliseconds.
Harry C.
Sam Wormley
> On Feb 7, 10:26 pm, "V a p o l l u a n"
> <onethirtyse...@archangels.mil> wrote:
>> Who has demonstrated that capability?China's recent feat wasnt all that
>> spectacular, although it is something to plan for.
>
> That capability was demonstrated by the US roughly 3 years ago. Given
> the ongoing rate of technology theft, all the world likely could have
> the GPS killer technolgy today.
LEO (Low Earth Orbit) satellites, Harry.
>
> Realize that all GPS birds orbit in fixed constellations, which make
> them sitting ducks for any weapon capable of reaching their orbital
> altitude. Actually, not at all a difficult task if you fire the killer
> missile from an aircraft flying at 50,000 feet or higher.
Nope, Harry, GPS birds are in constant motion with respect to the
ground... and at 4 earth radii are in half sidereal day orbits.
>
> Then too, one shouldn't ignore the capabilities of all electronic
> means today, since the availability of a compromised command sequence
> could immediately shut down operation of all GPS birds in a matter of
> milliseconds.
Secure channels, Harry.
>
> Harry C.
>
>
>
>
>
ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com
> hhc...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > Then too, one shouldn't ignore the capabilities of all electronic
> > means today, since the availability of a compromised command sequence
> > could immediately shut down operation of all GPS birds in a matter of
> > milliseconds.
> Secure channels, Harry.
Given the received power levels, brute force, receiver front end
overloading would be trivial to do to prevent the other side from
using GPS to navigate to your assets.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
hhc...@yahoo.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks Sam, then we have nothing to worry about when the GPS system
goes down.
Sleep well tonight, your elected government will protect you (as best
as they can).
Secure channels? You have to be joking. What in the world do you
believe that NSA and their foreign counterparts devote the majority of
their time doing?
'Nuff said.
Fortunately,because of the GPS risk, all stragic weapon systems
employed by the US contain secondary and tertiary redundant guidance
mechanisms. INS guidance can effectively target a missile to the area
of a city, but not to a discrete street address. GPS guidance, if
available, can target that same weapon to an individual street
address. No problemo. If GPS goes down, we simply will have to
increase the warhead on a missile like a Tomahawk from the 1,000 lb
conventional Bullpup warhead to a W10 170-Kt nuclear warhead. Not a
problem because the desired end results are identical, except for the
collateral casualties that result. Interestingly enough, both warheads
have similar weights and so can be carried by the same missile.
You might want to research the differences between the Tomahawk TLAN
and the TLAM (BGM-109) missile,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomahawk_missile
TLAN now seems to be restricted from civilians for unknown reasons,
mostly political but here is a site that lists it:
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/tomahawk.htm
Skip down to that last missle described on that page, and what you
will find is the MGM-109H, on which the missile is described this way:
"Total Mass: 1,469 kg (3,238 lb). Core Diameter: 0.52 m (1.70 ft).
Total Length: 6.40 m (20.90 ft). Span: 2.50 m (8.20 ft). Standard
warhead mass: 120 kg (260 lb). Maximum range: 2,600 km (1,600 mi).
Number Standard Warheads: 1. Standard warhead yield: 200 KT. Boost
Propulsion: Solid rocket. Cruise Propulsion: Turbofan. Guidance:
Inertial+Terrain Correlation. Maximum speed: 970 kph (600 mph)"
Take careful notice of the 200 KT warhead and the method of gudance.
Although the TLAN (Tomahawk Land Attack Nuclear) has been abandanded
since the day when the developers were walking around Washington DC
wearing badges saying: "Nuke Them Until They Glow" (the Navy
prohibited this common practice later). the MGM-109H is the currently
deployed version of the TLAN.
OK, tell me just what you believe would happen when an enemy starts
shooting down our GPS birds...something that can easily be done. I
believe the same response would be evoke just as if near US shore
submarines stated to shoot x-ray pin-down missiles. Everything in our
nuclear arsenal would be immediately fired in response, including the
big guys that make the MGM-109H (TLAN) detonations compare to Chinese
firecrackers. Entire large areas of the earth would vanish.
Fortunately during the Cold War, both sides realized this, and ;peace
prevailed. In today's world we are confronted by a very different
threat, and I have to seriously wonder if the enemy fully appreciates
the magnitude of the potential consequnces. I hope that they never
press the wrong button!
Harry C.
:
.
.
Sam, did you even bother to digest the content of the unclassifed
links that I posted?
Sam Wormley
I still use my altimeter, compass and maps... although GPS is
pretty dang convenient... I'm coming up on 18 years of uninterrupted
use.
>
> Secure channels? You have to be joking. What in the world do you
> believe that NSA and their foreign counterparts devote the majority of
> their time doing?
>
> 'Nuff said.
Not really... there are many corncrake coding schemes in use.
You ought to read up on the subject, Harry.
So you keep babbling... Care to give us some references?
I
> believe the same response would be evoke just as if near US shore
> submarines stated to shoot x-ray pin-down missiles. Everything in our
> nuclear arsenal would be immediately fired in response, including the
> big guys that make the MGM-109H (TLAN) detonations compare to Chinese
> firecrackers. Entire large areas of the earth would vanish.
>
> Fortunately during the Cold War, both sides realized this, and ;peace
> prevailed. In today's world we are confronted by a very different
> threat, and I have to seriously wonder if the enemy fully appreciates
> the magnitude of the potential consequnces. I hope that they never
> press the wrong button!
And get rid of the stuff the buttons activate.
Tom Potter
Consider this Sammy,
if you were a government leader in Russia, China, Japan, a Muslim nation,
a Latin-American nation, an African nation, and even a European nation,
and did not trust the American government and military,
and you wanted to break up America's monopoly on the GPS system,
would you switch to a non-American GPS system.
so that you wouldn't have to worry about some nut in the
American government or the American military
either disrupting all of your GPS-dependent system,
or using the GPS system against you militarily,
or would you stick with the ***Military Controlled***
American GPS System?
Regarding Sammy's assertion:
The military loses nothing... there are no revenues to the military."
As I pointed out:
"The military found out that in house, Mil Spec devices
and systems cannot not compete with free market creativity,
and it now depends upon the use of free market devices
and systems. In ten years the military of the nations that
abandon the American GPS system will have more
devices, technology, software, and technology to play with,
and they will be able to manufacture weapon systems
that are faster, cheaper, lighter, more accurate,
and less affected by artifact."
If the American Government cannot convince
Europe, Russia, and China to design their future
systems to be compatible with America's system,
the systems will diverge in many ways,
base frequencies, modulation, base time, pseudo codes, etc.
and thus the antenna's, front ends (Radio frequency receivers),
correlators, etc will be different,
and as most nations will migrate to *** non-military *** GPS systems,
and eventually American consumers will follow because
of the lower cost, and better performance,
and the security of knowing that a government or military nut
cannot disrupt their GPS system,
the American military will become the primary user
of its own system, and most of the creative work on
antennas, receivers, correlators, programs, chip sets, etc.
will be done on non-military systems, and the American GPS system
will fall behind in cost, performance, and general usefulness,
and the American taxpayer will be forced to support an aging,
outdated system used only be the military.
As can be seen from Sammy's reference,
the GPS Gurus know that unless they can get
Europe, Russia and China to adopt frequencies and techniques
that permit the American GPS industry to piggy back on
non-American GPS developments and manufacturing
of antennas, transmitters, receivers, digital circuits, software, etc.
that the America GPS system will fade away.
Sam Wormley
>
>
> Consider this Sammy, if you were a government leader in Russia, China,
> Japan, a Muslim nation, a Latin-American nation, an African nation, and
> even a European nation, and did not trust the American government and
> military, and you wanted to break up America's monopoly on the GPS system,
> would you switch to a non-American GPS system. so that you wouldn't have
> to worry about some nut in the American government or the American
> military either disrupting all of your GPS-dependent system, or using
> the GPS system against you militarily,
> or would you stick with the ***Military Controlled*** American GPS System?
Smart people including governments have been using GPS for
free and uninterrupted for almost two decades. Get a grip
Potter.
Read this Potter: http://pnt.gov/public/2008/2008-01-NTM/crews.pdf
Tom Potter
I read that Sam, did you?
If you did, and can't see that the American GPS management
is EXTREMELY worried
( And rightly so. )
that most of the world
will migrate to a non-American GPS system,
then you have a serious reading comprehension problem.
It does not take a system engineer to comprehend
that after Bush began strutting around,
flying planes over Chinese territory,
sword rattling, attacked Iraq,
threatened to attack Iran and North Korea,
and began installing a missile defense [sic] system around Russia,
that few nations have the trust and respect
they previously had for America, and that
Russia, China, Europe and the Muslim nations will
abandon the American system as the other systems come online.
And as competing systems will have more features
and the receivers will cost less and have better performance,
even Americans will eventually migrate to non-American GPS systems,
and the American taxpayers will have to support
an aging, outdated system that will be used only by the
American military.
First there was prestige and respect flight.
Then there was dollar flight.
Next there will be GPS flight.
And we owe it all to the great "Decider"!
Eric Gisse
> "Sam Wormley" <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
>
> news:UWKrj.25337$9j6.7546@attbi_s22...
>
>
>
> > Tom Potter wrote:
>
> >> Consider this Sammy, if you were a government leader in Russia, China,
> >> Japan, a Muslim nation, a Latin-American nation, an African nation, and
> >> even a European nation, and did not trust the American government and
> >> military, and you wanted to break up America's monopoly on the GPS
> >> system,
> >> would you switch to a non-American GPS system. so that you wouldn't have
> >> to worry about some nut in the American government or the American
> >> military either disrupting all of your GPS-dependent system, or using the
> >> GPS system against you militarily,
> >> or would you stick with the ***Military Controlled*** American GPS
> >> System?
>
> > Smart people including governments have been using GPS for
> > free and uninterrupted for almost two decades. Get a grip
> > Potter.
>
> > Read this Potter:http://pnt.gov/public/2008/2008-01-NTM/crews.pdf
>
> I read that Sam, did you?
>
> If you did, and can't see that the American GPS management
> is EXTREMELY worried
> ( And rightly so. )
> that most of the world
> will migrate to a non-American GPS system,
> then you have a serious reading comprehension problem.
The military doesn't give a fuck. Civilian uses of GPS are a secondary
concern.
>
> It does not take a system engineer to comprehend
How fortunate for us that you aren't a system engineer!
[...]
Sam Wormley
Pretty Pathetic Potter! <laughing>
hanson
> Tom Potter wrote:
>>
>> "Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
>> news:UWKrj.25337$9j6.7546@attbi_s22...
>>>>
>>> Tom Potter wrote:
>>>> Consider this Sammy, if you were a government leader in Russia, China,
>>>> Japan, a Muslim nation, a Latin-American nation, an African nation, and
>>>> even a European nation, and did not trust the American government and
>>>> military, and you wanted to break up America's monopoly on the GPS
>>>> system,
>>>> would you switch to a non-American GPS system. so that you wouldn't
>>>> have to worry about some nut in the American government or the American
>>>> military either disrupting all of your GPS-dependent system, or using
>>>> with the ***Military Controlled*** American GPS System?
>>>
>>> Smart people including governments have been using GPS for
>>> free and uninterrupted for almost two decades. Get a grip Potter.
>>> Read this Potter: http://pnt.gov/public/2008/2008-01-NTM/crews.pdf
>>
>> I read that Sam, did you?
>> If you did, and can't see that the American GPS management
>> that most of the world will migrate to a non-American GPS system,
>> then you have a serious reading comprehension problem.
>> It does not take a system engineer to comprehend
>> that after Bush began strutting around,
>> (2) sword rattling, attacked Iraq,
>> (3) threatened to attack Iran and North Korea,
>> (4) and began installing a missile defense [sic] system
>> around Russia,
>
"Sam Wormley" wrote:
> Pretty Pathetic Potter! <laughing>
>
hanson wrote:
Political considerations and <laughing> aside for the
moment, Sam, where does it say in that link of yours
http://pnt.gov/public/2008/2008-01-NTM/crews.pdf
that SR and or GR was ever necessary and essential for
the design, production, testing, operation or up-grade for
the GPS, which all those Einstein Dingleberries were
clankering about?
I asked about this before in this post here on 3-Jan-08:
== re: GPS World: Connectivity, Mobile Phones Will
Dominate Navigation ==,... wherein I asked you, Sam:
" Where is Einstein referred to for his contributions in your link?
< http://lbs.gpsworld.com/gpslbs/content/printContentPopup.jsp?id=481835 >
Where does Nokia, Motorola, LG, Samsung, TRG, Garmin or
TomTom say that they could not have achieved that level/success
of technology were it not for Einstein and his SR and GR? "...
No answer, huh, how come?.... ahahahahaha...
>
>
Potter, you are right on (1) to (4)... from YOUR point of view
over there. But BFD as this is quite normal. Different strokes
for different folks (as usual)... and it is generally very unwise
to fuck with the Big Dog.. as the ass-venters have found out
after they did destroy 2 buildings of ours... in our own yard....
Now, Tom, put all the political and other social issues aside
and do realize that after all was said and done.... Big Dog got
mad... He came back and did not make a tit-for-tat on two
buildings of theirs.. or two of their towns.. No, Big Dog came
back and fucked up two of their countries... ruff-ruff-aooooh!...
ahahahaha... ahaha...
Now Tom, put political consideration back into the game
and blame the original instigators who first started the ball
rolling on that with this gag of theirs, here:
< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O9W3UsdRyM >
or in < http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e1842edc4f >
>
All in all, Tom I didn't make this world, I only have to dance in
in it... & AFAIAC it's a lovely but very harsh game... in which
long term Peace is and always will remain a fantasy, a dream...
instigators or no instgators, Potter...Just look into this NG.. and
then stop yearning... ... .... So, thanks for the laughs guys....
ahahaha... ahahaha... ahahanson
PS:
Tom, your recent hope that an Edwards/Obama ticket ought
to be the next PVP pair is gone. Obama/Edwards has still a
remote chance though. But at the moment it is not clear at all
yet whether the Dems will get in or the Reps can hang on. To
me personally it doesn't matter anyways.. because politics
always rides on the coat tails of business. To the man in the
street it doesn't matter neither because the bureaucrats do
run the day to day affairs of the country.... which raises the
question what/whom we then vote for... ahahaha... We vote for
a set of political activists who play the game to get appointed
to positions in a govt-agency with a high salary and fat pension
benefits... That's all Tom... and that is the same all over the
world ... even in China... It's a laugh!... ahahaha... ahahanson
Tom Potter
Rather than laugh,
I suggest that Sam Wormley should read his reference:
http://pnt.gov/public/2008/2008-01-NTM/crews.pdf
which states:
=================================
Long-term future:
- Beyond GPS-III
- Role of GPS in future system-of-systems
==========
- Air Force Space Command (AFSPC) is standing up a Community of
Interest (COI) to implement net-centric operations using OCX
. GPS COI is a forum for users to recommend the data and services
that should accessible from the global information grid (GIG)
. Organizations interested in participating in the COI should contact
Robin Booker, AFSPC, at Robin.Bo...@peterson.af.mil
=============
Trends in civil
Global Navigation Satellite Systems (GNSS)
Increasing number of GNSS service providers
- GPS, GLONASS, GALILEO, QZSS, COMPASS
===============
. Growing expectations from mass-market users
- More affordable, lower power receivers
- Greater positioning accuracy (meters to sub-meter ranges)
- Better availability in impaired environments
============
Implications of future trends
. Users will obtain better availability and accuracy by using
multiple systems
. Low cost GNSS receivers are vital for mass market applications
- GNSS signals should be highly interoperable
- Implies common center frequencies & similar modulation (CDMA)
. GNSS service providers can work together to benefit users
- Sustain radio frequency compatibility
. One GNSS service doesn't unacceptably degrade another service
- Modernize systems for best interoperability
. Enable superior, combined GNSS navigation solutions
===============
Characteristic Interoperability Benefit
Common carrier frequencies Common antenna and receiver front end-
lower power and cost; common carrier
tracking for higher accuracy
Similar spreading
modulation spectra
Lower cost; common-mode dispersive errors
removed in navigation solution for higher
accuracy; front-end filter will work for all
signals; same analog-to-digital sample rate
Common time and reference
frames, or broadcast offsets
Navigation solutions can more easily use
measurements from different systems
====================
- Other GNSS services
. Galileo, QZSS, IRNSS, more interoperable GLONASS signals, etc.
. GPS Wing welcomes these combinations
- GNSS international compatibility & interoperability working groups
===========
. Some major findings:
- GPS-III requirements provide enough integrity for aviation
================
. Service providers get clock & ephemeris corrections and make
this information available to users in appropriate format
============
. GPS is boldly moving forward into the future
- To remain the pre-eminent space-based PNT service
- GPS will continue to lead the future GNSS system-of-systems
=============================
If Sam reads his reference with UNDERSTANDING,
he will see that:
1. The American system is controlled by the military.
2. No mention of "selective availability".
3. The following trend was noted:
"Increasing number of GNSS service providers
GPS, GLONASS, GALILEO, QZSS, COMPASS"
4. There was an appeal for commercial support.
5. "Low cost GNSS receivers are vital for mass market applications"
(and for military technology fallout and access to lower cost devices.)
6. Note the appeals for
"international compatibility & interoperability working groups".
"Similar spreading modulation spectra",
"common center frequencies & similar modulation",
"Common time and reference frames, or broadcast offsets"
7. Note the phrase
"GPS-III requirements provide ***enough*** integrity for aviation"
8. And note the appeal to the "bandwagon effect",
to get manufacturers, politicians, programmers, and airlines on board:
"GPS will continue to lead the future GNSS system-of-systems"
Why try to assure airlines, try to create a bandwagon effect,
appeal to "Community of Interest" for support
and the competing systems for commonality,
and make the claim that:
""GPS will continue to lead the future GNSS system-of-systems",
unless GPS is concerned (As they should be.)
that the new systems will drain off users, designers ,
programmers, manufacturers, etc.,
and that the GPS system will become a
costly, Military White Elephant?
Pretty, Pathetic Sam Wormley
Possesses a Piss Poor, Paltry, Perception
of Posturing Prose!
Sam Wormley
>
> Pretty, Pathetic Sam Wormley
> Possesses a Piss Poor, Paltry, Perception
> of Posturing Prose!
>
>
Try words starting with "w" Potter.... You don't do well on IQ
tests do you!
Jeff▲Relf
only the GPS system has drawn support from private investors.
The U.S. dollar is the stock of U.S.A. Inc.;
The Euro ( € ) is the stock of EuroZone Inc.;
The Yen ( ¥ ) is the stock of Japan Inc., etc.
A gallon of gasoline is just a gallon of gasoline,
it's the same decade after decade;
but the value of the dollar ( i.e. U.S.A. Inc. ) fluctuates like mad.
One glance at the pump prices and I know the value of U.S.A. Inc.
Tom Potter
Weasel worded Wormley whines & waffles.
Sam Wormley
>
> "Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
> news:s8Cvj.44916$9j6.27819@attbi_s22...
>> Tom Potter wrote:
>>
>>> Pretty, Pathetic Sam Wormley
>>> Possesses a Piss Poor, Paltry, Perception
>>> of Posturing Prose!
>>
>> Try words starting with "w" Potter.... You don't do well on IQ
>> tests do you!
>
> Weasel worded Wormley whines & waffles.
>
There you go Potter... See that wasn't so hard for you, now
was it!
Here' a harder challenge... post something of a real scientific
discussion related to physics.
Sam Wormley
>
> unless GPS is concerned (As they should be.)
> that the new systems will drain off users, designers ,
> programmers, manufacturers, etc.,
> and that the GPS system will become a
> costly, Military White Elephant?
>
China Discusses Beidou with the GNSS Community
http://sidt.gpsworld.com/gpssidt/content/printContentPopup.jsp?id=493496
Feb 21, 2008
GPS World
MUNICH, Germany -- A scientist involved with China's Compass GNSS
gave a briefing on the nascent program to the Munich Satellite
Navigation Summit here Wednesday, marking the first time Chinese
representatives have appeared outside China with spokespersons from
other satellite navigation systems
While the details provided by Dr. Jing Guifei of the National Remote
Sensing Center of China and the Ministry of Science and Technology
have been disseminated previously, the event may signal a further
emergence, even a willingness on the part of the Chinese to engage in
communication, if not dialog, with other GNSS -- and a desire to
become an international PNT player.
At the same time, while indicating that Compass plans to become a
global constellation providing coverage around the world, Guifei
carefully limited his definite remarks to a regional system that
would serve China and contiguous Asian regions.
Here is his account:
Two satellites in the Beidou Test System are now in orbit; the first
one launched in 2001, the second in 2007. Beidou is an active system,
currently providing service to navigation terminals within China. To
do so, it also employs two geostationary communication satellites.
"We want to build the global navigation system. First we must take
care of the first-generation Beidou Test System. It's very special,"
Guifei said. "We want to take care of the users today, using the
first generations system for their applications."
Plans, currently in the conceptual stage, call for 35 satellites,
five in geostationary orbit and 20 in medium-Earth orbit, the latter
similar to the U.S., Russian, and European systems. When complete,
Compass will provide 24-hour global coverage in all weather
conditions, and will broadcast precise time and orbit information on
L-band radio frequencies. It will consist of the typical three
segments: three space, ground control, and user equipment.
Compass will provide an Open Service and Authorized Service. China
envisions the Open Service to have position accuracy of 20 meters,
timing accuracy of 50 nanoseconds, and velocity accuracy within 0.2
meters per second. Guifei characterized the Authorized Service only
as " highly reliable even in complex situations."
In addition, it will furnish two kinds of regional services in Asia
and Pacific area: a wide area augmentation service, with position
accuracy of 1 meter; and a limited communication service in short
message format, for information exchange between users (expanding the
service of first-generation Compass, and making it similar to QZSS.
The Compass frequency design plan calls for four carrier frequencies
and bandwidth of downlink RNSS signals (three frequencies on the
Compass-m1):
B1: 1561.098 plus or minus 2.046 Mhz
B1-2: 1589.742 plus or minus 2.046 Mhz
B2: 1207.14 plus or minus 12 Mhz
B3: 1268.52 plus or minus 12 Mhz
The system's first step is the Compass regional navigation system,
working today with the four satellites mentioned. The second step
will be the Compass navigation sat system, covering the Asia area
(China and neighboring countries) by 2008. Then it will go global.
"We have also tested a new satellite, the Compass-m1," stated Guifei.
"The first MEO satellite, launched April 2007, is for system in-orbit
validation and to secure the frequency filings."
Key words about Compass, called out in the presentation:
o Open;
o Independent (as Chinese infrastructure PNT cannot rely on any
other system);
o compatibility and interoperability (L1 and L5 are in the plan; it
will interoperate with other systems on reference frame ITRF, and
time system UTC);
o global and important (basic service for the global user, higher
quality service in Asia area; finally a global system will be
achieved step by step, to control the risk and investment in
technology.)
Opportunities for cooperation alluded to by Guifei include:
o Satellite POD: global monitoring stations, international Compass
service "just like the International GNSS (formerly GPS) service, or
IGS"
o Satellite laser ranging
o Applications
o International standards: "We hope we can contribute to providing
service to all users."
The China Satellite Navigation Project center (CSNPC) agency has
taken charge of research, building, and management of Compass. The
CSNPC consists of two departments: the project management department
(PMD and the general technology department (GTD).
The PMD is responsible for management of Compass research and
construction, news issuance, international collaboration and
communication, frequency cooperation, and so on. The GTD is
responsible for the top-level design of compass, technology
correspondence, development, and so forth.
A system website is currently under construction.
In response to a direct question about the global portion of the
Compass plan, Dr. Guifei said that there was no information about
approval of budget from the government for the global system; the
current system, however, is fully funded. L5 and other aspects of the
global plan are not fixed; they are still under discussion.
Tom Potter
"pi" is a constant used to express discrete reality
(events) in terms of continuous reality (space).
Auto-correlation is used to determine discrete reality
and cross-correlation is used to determine continuous reality.
Auto-correlation involves a set of events associated with
a single point or body,
cross-correlation involves a set of events associated with
two points or bodies.
Discrete reality is expressed in "N" counts of
cycles or events (Which are one point entities)
in a sample,
continuous reality is expressed in "N" counts of
cycles*x (Where x is a two point entity)
in a sample.
Note that x can be degrees, grads, mils, radians,
hertz seconds, etc. x can be any real number.
In other words,
if x is an integer you are expressing discrete reality.
if x is a real number you are expressing continuous reality.
The most fundamental two points
that can be equated to discrete reality (Cycles)
is the diameter of a cycle (Circle).
2 pi is a sort of Dedekind Cut
that separates discrete reality from continuous reality.
As can be seen,
2 pi is the math equivalent of physic's "c"
the so-called speed of light.
In other words, 2 pi is a constant used to
express discrete one point realities,
which are basically times,
in terms of continuous two point realities,
which are basically spaces,
just as "c" is used to express time intervals (discrete realities)
in terms of spaces (continuous realities).
That said, as I recently posted Conway's game of "Life"
is a better representation of reality than all existing models,
as the physical properties and their values
used in conventional models,
can be derived from auto-correlations, cross-correlations,
and the motions of the various "Life" populations.
In other words, at the most fundamental level,
reality consists of discrete populations
interacting in an environment.
I hope this "real scientific discussion related to physics".
is not too deep for Sam and others.
Jeff▲Relf
empirically verified by third parties ( e.g. zero, e, and infinity ),
is metaphysical... not physical. ( Note, “ Zero * Infinity == 1 ” )
That said, Einstein was a “ Logical Positivist ”,
which means that, although he'll measure the position of the moon,
he fully trusts that it's there, even when he's not looking.
Jeff▲Relf
dominates the desktop ( MicroSoft ) and the Internet.
Boeing ( both planes and GPS birds ) now trades off with Airbus.
My grandfather was a Federal Reserve banker in Seattle
( the U.S. banking system is used the world over )
and my dad was a tool-and-die maker ( a draftsman )
on the team that created the 747.
Asia is mostly a no-show, witness the “ Great Firewall of China ”.
Boeing could leap-frog Airbus at anytime... remember the Concorde ?