The relation between refractive index and dielectric constant ?
Andrew
What is the relation between refractive index "n" of the medium and its
dielectric costant "e" ?
I always thought that n = e^(1/2) - it is true in case of GaAs ( n =
3.5, e = 13.2 ),
but for LiNbO_3 n = 2.25 and e = 29, for BaTiO_3 n = 2.36 and e = 168.
Thus, what is the true relation between n and e ?
Thanx in advance.
Andrew
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>Hello,
>
>What is the relation between refractive index "n" of the medium and its
>dielectric costant "e" ?
>I always thought that n = e^(1/2)
Close enough.
> - it is true in case of GaAs ( n =
>3.5, e = 13.2 ),
>but for LiNbO_3 n = 2.25 and e = 29, for BaTiO_3 n = 2.36 and e = 168.
>
Neither the refractive index, nor the dielectric constant are
constants (names notwithstanding). They're functions of frequency and
to use the relationship above you've to use the refractive index and
dielectric constants appropriate for same frequency. The differences
are significant. For example, the dielectric constant of water at
very low frequencies (effectively, for static fields) is about 80, at
optical frequencies it is less than 2. At x-ray frequencies it is
less than 1.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
me...@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
The Thing
> In article <1164374492....@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Andrew" <a...@ps.pl> writes:
>>Hello,
>>
>>What is the relation between refractive index "n" of the medium and its
>>dielectric costant "e" ?
>>I always thought that n = e^(1/2)
>
> Close enough.
>
>> - it is true in case of GaAs ( n =
>>3.5, e = 13.2 ),
>>but for LiNbO_3 n = 2.25 and e = 29, for BaTiO_3 n = 2.36 and e = 168.
>>
>
>
> Neither the refractive index, nor the dielectric constant are
> constants (names notwithstanding). They're functions of frequency and
> to use the relationship above you've to use the refractive index and
> dielectric constants appropriate for same frequency. The differences
> are significant. For example, the dielectric constant of water at
> very low frequencies (effectively, for static fields) is about 80, at
> optical frequencies it is less than 2. At x-ray frequencies it is
> less than 1.
>
So do x-rays travel faster than c in water or does mu save the day??
Regards
The
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 22:37:26 +0000, mmeron wrote:
>
>> In article <1164374492....@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, "Andrew" <a...@ps.pl> writes:
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>What is the relation between refractive index "n" of the medium and its
>>>dielectric costant "e" ?
>>>I always thought that n = e^(1/2)
>>
>> Close enough.
>>
>>> - it is true in case of GaAs ( n =
>>>3.5, e = 13.2 ),
>>>but for LiNbO_3 n = 2.25 and e = 29, for BaTiO_3 n = 2.36 and e = 168.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Neither the refractive index, nor the dielectric constant are
>> constants (names notwithstanding). They're functions of frequency and
>> to use the relationship above you've to use the refractive index and
>> dielectric constants appropriate for same frequency. The differences
>> are significant. For example, the dielectric constant of water at
>> very low frequencies (effectively, for static fields) is about 80, at
>> optical frequencies it is less than 2. At x-ray frequencies it is
>> less than 1.
>>
>
>So do x-rays travel faster than c in water or does mu save the day??
>
matter) is higher than c, yes. It is only the phase velocity that is
determined by the refractive index.
Eric Gisse
*scratches head*
What about group velocity?
Things like this are making me look forward to solid state physics in
spring.
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
diespersion (around absorption edges. You can find some details in
Jackson, Chapt 7.
>Things like this are making me look forward to solid state physics in
>spring.
>
Have fun:-)
Tom Potter
"The Thing" <tth...@northpole.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.11.25....@northpole.com...
> On Fri, 24 Nov 2006 22:37:26 +0000, mmeron wrote:
>
>> In article <1164374492....@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>> "Andrew" <a...@ps.pl> writes:
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>What is the relation between refractive index "n" of the medium and its
>>>dielectric costant "e" ?
>>>I always thought that n = e^(1/2)
>>
>> Close enough.
>>
>>> - it is true in case of GaAs ( n =
>>>3.5, e = 13.2 ),
>>>but for LiNbO_3 n = 2.25 and e = 29, for BaTiO_3 n = 2.36 and e = 168.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Neither the refractive index, nor the dielectric constant are
>> constants (names notwithstanding). They're functions of frequency and
>> to use the relationship above you've to use the refractive index and
>> dielectric constants appropriate for same frequency. The differences
>> are significant. For example, the dielectric constant of water at
>> very low frequencies (effectively, for static fields) is about 80, at
>> optical frequencies it is less than 2. At x-ray frequencies it is
>> less than 1.
>>
>
> So do x-rays travel faster than c in water or does mu save the day??
Here is whar Maxwell had to say about this subject in 1861
in a letter to Faraday.
Quote
=====
DEAR SIR-I have been lately studying the theory of static electric
induction, and have endeavoured to form a
mechanical conception of the part played by the particles of air, glass, or
other dielectric in the electric field, the
final result of which is the attraction and repulsion of "charged" bodies.
The conception I have hit on has led, when worked out mathematically, to
some very interesting results,
capable of testing my theory, and exhibiting numerical relations between
optical, electric, and electromagnetic
phenomena, which I hope soon to verify more completely.
What I now wish to ascertain is, whether the measures of the capacity for
electric induction of dielectric bodies
with reference to air have been modified materially since your estimates of
them in "Series XI." either by yourself
or others.
I wish to get the numerical value of the "electric capacity" of various
substances, especially transparent ones, if
founded into a thin sheet of given thickness, and coated on both sides with
tinfoil. Sir W. Snow Harris has made
experiments of this kind; but I do not know whether I can interpret them
numerically.
Another question I wish to ask is, whether any experiments, similar to those
in Series XIV., on crystalline
bodies, have yet led to positive results. I expect that a sphere of Iceland
spar, suspended between two oppositely
electrified surfaces, would point with its optic axis transverse to the
electric force, and I expect soon to calculate the
value of the force with which it should point. Again, I have not yet found
any determination of the rotation of the
plane of polarization by magnetism, in which the absolute intensity of
magnetism at the place of the
transparent body was given. I hope to find such a statement by searching in
libraries, but perhaps you may be able
to put me on the right track.
My theory of electrical forces is, that they are called into play in
insulating media by
slight electric displacements, which put certain small portions of the
medium into a state of distortion, which,
being resisted by the elasticity of the Medium, produces an electromotive
force. A spherical cell would, by such a
displacement, be distorted thus-where the curved lines represent diameters
originally straight, but now curved.
I suppose the elasticity of the sphere to react on the electrical matter
surrounding
it, and press it downwards. From the determination by Kohlrausch and Weber
of the
numerical relation between the statical and magnetic effects of electricity,
I have
determined the elasticity of the medium in air, and assuming that it is the
same with
the luminiferous ether, I have determined the velocity of propagation of
transverse
vibrations.
The result is 193,088 miles per second (deduced from electrical and magnetic
experiments). Fizean has determined the velocity of light = 193,118 miles
per second,
by direct experiment.
This coincidence is not merely numerical. I worked out the formulæ in the
country before seeing Weber's
number, which is in millimetres, and I think we have now strong reason to
believe, whether my theory is a fact or
not, that the luminiferous and the electromagnetic medium are one.
Supposing the luminous and the electromagnetic phenomena to be similarly
modified by the presence of gross
matter, my theory says that the inductive capacity (static) is equal to the
square of the index of refraction, divided
by the coefficient of magnetic induction (air = 1).
I have also examined the theory of the passage of light through a medium
filled with magnetic vortices, and
find that the rotation of the plane of polarization is in the same direction
with that of the vortices, that it
varies inversely as the square of the wave length (as is shown by
experiment), and that its amount is proportional
to the diameter of the vortices.
The absolute diameter of the of the magnetic vortices, their velocity and
their density, are so involved that, though as
yet they are all unknown, the discovery of a new relation among them would
determine them all.
Such a relation might be obtained by the observation of a revolving
electromagnet if our instruments were
accurate enough. I have had an instrument made for this purpose, but I have
not yet overcome the effects of
terrestrial magnetism in marking the phenomena.
When I began to study electricity mathematically I avoided all the old
traditions about forces acting at a
distance, and after reading your papers as a first step to right thinking, I
read the others, interpreting as I went on,
but never allowing myself to explain anything by these forces. It is because
I put off reading about electricity till I
could do it without prejudice that I think I have been able to get hold of
some of your ideas, such as the electrotonic
state, action of contiguous parts, etc., and my chief object in writing to
you is to ascertain if I have got the same
ideas which led you to see your way into things, or whether I have no right
to call my notions by your names.-I
remain, yours truly,
J. C. MAXWELL.
===============
End quote
As can be seen by reading his works,
Maxwell was the father of modern physics.
First, he introduced "Dimensional Analysis"
which is the standard against which ALL physics models must be tested.
Equations are maths.
Units are politics.
Dimensional Analysis is physics.
( If a model doesn't fit Maxwell's Dimensions, it is not correct.)
Secondly, Maxwell established the framework for Quantum Mechanics
when he showed that statistics, rather than two-body math,
is required to model multi-body systems.
Thirdly, Maxwell established the framework for modern atomic theory
by postulating dimensionless points, and assembling the
points into atoms, molecules, and larger structures,
while leaving room for finer complex assembles of points
such as quarks and neutrinos.
Fourthly, Maxwell laid the ground work for the Bose-Einstein and Fermi-Dirac
distributions,
which were slight modifications of Maxwell's distribution
to account for the separation of matter into two classes, bosons and
fermions.
(It is interesting to see that Bose-Einstein distribution basically
lumped verbs (Bosons) with nouns (Fermions),
and that the Fermi-Dirac distribution was necessary to reseparate them.
The question is, were these hacks the best way to model reality?)
Fifthly, Einstein's much touted paper on Brownian movement
is a variation of Maxwell's more comprehensive treatment of the
velocity distribution of particles.
Just as most historians parrot Herodotus, most physicists parrot Maxwell,
but none come close to the masters.
--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
The Thing
Sounds like your quoting from the Bible. Much of what would have
mystified Maxwell is quite well understood today. Maxwell had no
clue about much of atomic theory. He certainly didn't know much
about anomalous dispersion occurring at the edge of absorption
bands in 1870's seeing as xrays were unheard of. People often
confuse making significant contributions with omnipotence.
Regards
The
Eric Gisse
[...]
Who cares?
Sue...
Indeed! Scratches head because he believes these irrelevant:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_impedance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_space
Sue...
Eric Gisse
Wow! Yet another worthless post from Sue!
Phineas T Puddleduck
"Eric Gisse" <jow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Indeed! Scratches head because he believes these irrelevant:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_impedance
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_space
>
> Wow! Yet another worthless post from Sue!
They'd have had more accuracy in defining the second on the number of
Sue's worthless posts that any atomic clock.
Recipe for Sue posts:
Post a few almost relevant url's
Pad out a paragraph of nonsense with physical-sounding concepts.
--
Thermodynamics claims another crown!
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/heacon.html
Tom Potter
One has to wonder how anyone, or any "Thing", could confuse
Maxwell, who experimented and wrote about things
in an intelligent, rational way,
with the Bible,
which is a collection of ridiculous myths,
which doesn't even compare in rationality
with the Greek and Roman histories of those days.
It appears that Maxwell was not "mystified" by anything
as he was able to rationally evaluate and consolidate
all of the known data about astronomy, electricity and chemistry,
and no doubt, if he had access to present day data,
he would have had no trouble in comprehending it,
and either incorporating it into his works,
or to create a new model which would cover it better.
Regarding "The Thing's" comment:
"Maxwell had no clue about much of atomic theory."
As I wrote:
"Maxwell established the framework for modern atomic theory
by postulating dimensionless points, and assembling the
points into atoms, molecules, and larger structures,
while leaving room for finer complex assembles of points
such as quarks and neutrinos."
But most importantly,
Maxwell created the model that all physical theories
MUST conform to. "Dimensional Analysis".
Maths are languages.
Equations are sentences.
Units are politics.
Dimensional Analysis is physics.
( If a model doesn't fit Maxwell's Dimensions, it is not correct.)
As indicated on the article "Uniting the four forces"
on my web site.
"Man is hardwired to perceive objects that vary in time and space, and he
has developed
an enormous vocabulary of objects (Nouns)
and words that describe how objects vary (Verbs).
The physical properties, a small subset of these nouns and verbs, are used
in
physics to model man's world.
James Clerk Maxwell found that a small sub-set of the physical properties
called
fundamental properties could serve as pointers to the other physical
properties.
Maxwell selected time, distance and mass to be his fundamental properties
and he came
up with two constants (Permittivity and permeability) in order to couple the
electric and
magnetic properties to these properties. Maxwell's system is now called
"Dimensional
Analysis"."
"The Thing" does make a good point when it states:
"People often confuse making significant contributions with omnipotence."
As can be seen by the posts in the news groups,
media articles, and popular books on science,
Einstein is hyped as being omniscient,
although he cannot hold a candle to many of the great scientists.
After Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.
After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.
After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind, etc.
Here we are, 100 years after General Relativity
and it continues to generate more hype and heat
than light and advances.
--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
Sue...
Tom Potter wrote:
[...]
>
> One has to wonder how anyone, or any "Thing", could confuse
> Maxwell, who experimented and wrote about things
> in an intelligent, rational way,
> with the Bible,
>
> which is a collection of ridiculous myths,
> which doesn't even compare in rationality
> with the Greek and Roman histories of those days.
>
> It appears that Maxwell was not "mystified" by anything
> as he was able to rationally evaluate and consolidate
> all of the known data about astronomy, electricity and chemistry,
> and no doubt, if he had access to present day data,
> he would have had no trouble in comprehending it,
> and either incorporating it into his works,
> or to create a new model which would cover it better.
>
> Regarding "The Thing's" comment:
> "Maxwell had no clue about much of atomic theory."
>
> As I wrote:
> "Maxwell established the framework for modern atomic theory
> by postulating dimensionless points, and assembling the
> points into atoms, molecules, and larger structures,
> while leaving room for finer complex assembles of points
> such as quarks and neutrinos."
Time dependant Maxwell's equations don't leave any
place for the mythical twins to hide so don't expect
broad acceptance from the H.G. Wells fans.
Time-independent Maxwell equations
Time-dependent Maxwell's equations
http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/em/lectures/lectures.html
>
> But most importantly,
> Maxwell created the model that all physical theories
> MUST conform to. "Dimensional Analysis".
>
> Maths are languages.
> Equations are sentences.
> Units are politics.
> Dimensional Analysis is physics.
< ( If a model doesn't fit Maxwell's Dimensions, it is not correct.) >
Have you ever heard of Van der Waals or London forces?
http://www.research.ibm.com/grape/grape_ewald.htm
http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/GSP/SEM0L6OVGJE_0.html
Sue...
[...]
tdp...@gmail.com
Are you asserting that these models
do not conform to Maxwell's Dimensional Analysis?
If so, please provide examples.
Sue...
Results 1 - 2 of about 4 for "Maxwell's Dimensional Analysis". (0.08
seconds)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Maxwell%27s+Dimensional+Analysis%22&btnG=Google+Search
Sue...
Double-A
To the Air of Lorelei
I.
Alone on a hillside of heather,
I lay with dark thoughts in my mind,
In the midst of the beautiful weather
I was deaf, I was dumb, I was blind.
I knew not the glories around me,
I counted the world as it seems,
Till a spirit of melody found me,
And taught me in visions and dreams.
II.
For the sound of a chorus of voices
Came gathering up from below,
And I heard how all Nature rejoices,
And moves with a musical flow.
O strange! we are lost in delusion,
Our ways and doings are wrong,
We are drowning, in wilful confusion,
The notes of that wonderful song.
III.
But listen, what harmony holy
Is mingling its notes with our own!
The discord is vanishing slowly,
And melts in that dominant tone.
And they that have heard it can never
Return to confusion again,
Their voices are music for ever,
And join in the mystical strain.
IV.
No mortal can utter the beauty
That dwells in the song that they sing;
They move in the pathway of duty,
They follow the steps of their King.
I would barter the world and its glory,
That vision of joy to prolong,
Or to hear and remember the story
That lies in the heart of their song.
James Clerk Maxwell
Tom Potter
"Sue..." <suzyse...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1164529572.4...@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Sue raises a good point
when she points out that few people
know that Maxwell conceived what is now
known as "Dimensional Analysis".
If they read Maxwell's works,
they will see that Maxwell took a look at all of the relationships
between the measurable physical properties
("Laws of physics"), that had been discovered (Archimedes, Galileo, Newton,
etc.),
and were being discovered (Faraday, etc.) and found that he could
use three properties, such as time, space and mass,
to serve as pointers to the other mechanical properties.
Maxwell used a magnetic constant (Permeability),
and an electric constant (Permittivity)
in order to incorporate the electric and magnetic
properties into his model.
As can be seen from the PDF article
"Uniting the four forces"
on my web site,
the electro-magnetic properties can be linked
to the mechanical properties with one (Z),
rather than two constants,
and the weak and strong force properties,
and any other real or pseudo force properties
can be incorporated using a constant for each force.
--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
--
Sue...
Did Maxwell write anything about London or Van der Waals forces ?
Sue...
Twittering One
And rarely smells the new-mown hay,
And the cock hath sung beneath the thatch
Twice or thrice his roundelay,
Twice or thrice his roundelay;
Alone and warming his five wits,
The white owl in the belfry sits."
~ Alfred Lord Tennyson
Double-A
The Vampyre
Thair is a knichte rydis through the wood,
And a doughty knichte is tree,
And sure hee is on a message sent,
He rydis see hastilie.
Hee passit the aik, and hee passit the birk,
And hee passit monie a tre,
Bot plesant to him was the saugh sae slim,
For beneath it hee did see
The boniest ladye that ever he saw,
Scho was see schyn and fair.
And there scho sat, beneath the saugh,
Kaiming hir gowden hair.
And then the knichte-"Oh ladye brichte,
What chance hes brought you here,
But say the word, and ye schall gang
Back to your kindred dear."
Then up and spok the Ladye fair-
"I have nae friends or kin,
Bot in a littel boat I live,
Amidst the waves' loud din."
Then answered thus the douchty knichte-
"I'll follow you through all,
For gin ye bee in a littel boat,
The world to it seemis small."
They gaed through the wood, and through the wood
To the end of the wood they came:
And when they came to the end of the wood
They saw the salt sea faem.
And then they saw the wee, wee boat,
That daunced on the top of the wave,
And first got in the ladye fair,
And then the knichte sae brave;
They got into the wee, wee boat,
And rowed wi' a' their micht;
When the knichte sae brave, he turnit about,
And lookit at the ladye bricht;
He lookit at her bonie cheik,
And hee lookit at hir twa bricht eyne,
Bot hir rosie cheik growe ghaistly pale,
And scho seymit as scho deid had been.
The fause fause knichte growe pale wi frichte,
And his hair rose up on end,
For gane-by days cam to his mynde,
And his former luve he kenned.
Then spake the ladye,-"Thou, fause knichte,
Hast done to mee much ill,
Thou didst forsake me long ago,
Bot I am constant still;
For though I ligg in the woods sae cald,
At rest I canna bee
Until I sucke the gude lyfe blude
Of the man that gart me dee."
Hee saw hir lipps were wet wi' blude,
And hee saw hir lyfelesse eyne,
And loud hee cry'd, "Get frae my syde,
Thou vampyr corps uncleane!"
Bot no, hee is in hir magic boat,
And on the wyde wyde sea;
And the vampyr suckis his gude lyfe blude,
Sho suckis hym till hee dee.
So now beware, whoe're you are,
That walkis in this lone wood;
Beware of that deceitfull spright,
The ghaist that suckle the blude.
James Clerk Maxwell
Twittering One
theories.
tadchem
The term "dielectric constant" is used for low frequency phenomena
where frequency dependence becomes negligible.
The Macroscopic Maxwell Theory treats the index of refraction as a
complex number with strong frequency dependence. The dielectric
constant may be seen as the square of the *magnitude* of the complex
refractive index at frequencies far below any resonance.
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
Twittering One
With the myths of other days.
Cut the thing entirely, lest yon
College Don should put the question,
Why not stick to what you're best on?
Mathematics always pays."
~ James Maxwell
Twittering One
The atoms left their heavenly path,
And by fortuitous embraces,
Engendered all that being hath.
And though they seem to cling together,
And form 'associations' here,
Yet, soon or late, they burst their tether,
And through the depths of space career."
~ James Maxwell
Double-A
Twittering One wrote:
> Maxwell was well known for talking to his dog about his scientific
> theories.
Well, Bert talks to Rudy.
I guess great minds work alike!
Double-A
P.S. I think Newton had a horse.
Sorcerer
"Double-A" <doub...@hush.ai> wrote in message
news:1164576340.3...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
Was Maxwell the Edinburgh vampire?
Double-A
If he was, maybe he still is!!!
Tom Potter
>
> Thair is a knichte rydis through the wood,
> And a doughty knichte is tree,
"Double-A" makes a good point
when he points out that Maxwell was proficient
in many fields, including poetry,
and could write in various languages,
including old English.
Maxwell's friends observed that he
seemed to know everything about everything.
comprehended the essence of things.
As one friend wrote:
"He was highly accomplished in music, painting, and languages. At the age of
nineteen he went abroad for
three years to finish his education. He studied one year under the
celebrated Dr. Boerhaave at Leyden, where he
was a pupil of William Mieris in drawing. He afterwards went to Florence and
Rome, where he had lessons in
music from Antonio Corelli, and in painting from Imperiale. He wrote an
opera which was performed in Rome."
Note how Maxwell used poetry to teach
dynamics in the poem below,
which he wrote in contemporary English.
A PROBLEM IN DYNAMICS. 19th Feb. 1854.
An inextensible heavy chain
Lies on a smooth horizontal plane,
An impulsive force is applied at A,
Required the initial motion of K.
Let ds be the infinitesimal link,
Of which for the present we've only to think; [626]
Let T be the tension, and T + dT
The same for the end that is nearest to B.
Let a be put, by a common convention,
For the angle at M 'twixt OX and the tension;
Let Vt and Vn be ds's velocities,
Of which Vt along and Vn across it is;
Then Vn/Vt the tangent will equal,
Of the angle of starting worked out in the sequel.
In working the problem the first thing of course is
To equate the impressed and effectual forces.
K is tugged by two tensions, whose difference dT
(1) Must equal the element's mass into Vt.
Vn must be due to the force perpendicular
To ds's direction, which shows the particular
Advantage of using da to serve at your
Pleasure to estimate ds's curvature.
For Vn into mass of a unit of chain
(2) Must equal the curvature into the strain.
Thus managing cause and effect to discriminate,
The student must fruitlessly try to eliminate,
And painfully learn, that in order to do it, he
Must find the Equation of Continuity.
The reason is this, that the tough little element,
Which the force of impulsion to beat to a jelly meant,
Was endowed with a property incomprehensible,
And was "given," in the language of Shop, "inextensible."
It therefore with such pertinacity odd defied
The force which the length of the chain should have modified,
That its stubborn example may possibly yet recall
These overgrown rhymes to their prosody metrical.
The condition is got by resolving again,
According to axes assumed in the plane.
If then you reduce to the tangent and normal,
(3) You will find the equation more neat tho' less formal. [627]
(4) The condition thus found after these preparations,
When duly combined with the former equations,
Will give you another, in which differentials
(5) (When the chain forms a circle), become in essentials
No harder than those that we easily solve
(6) In the time a T totum would take to revolve.
Now joyfully leaving ds to itself, a-
Ttend to the values of T and of a.
The chain undergoes a distorting convulsion,
Produced first at A by the force of impulsion.
In magnitude R, in direction tangential,
(7) Equating this R to the form exponential,
Obtained for the tension when a is zero,
It will measure the tug, such a tug as the "hero
Plume-waving" experienced, tied to the chariot.
But when dragged by the heels his grim head could not carry aught,
(8) So give a its due at the end of the chain,
And the tension ought there to be zero again.
From these two conditions we get three equations,
Which serve to determine the proper relations
Between the first impulse and each coefficient
In the form for the tension, and this is sufficient
To work out the problem, and then, if you choose,
You may turn it and twist it the Dons to amuse.
* Equations referred to not list as they were graphics.
--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
--
Tom Potter
As Sue seems to question the fact that Maxwell was the father
of Dimensional Analysis, I trust that she will provide
ANY reference about using time, space and mass as
pointers to the other physical properties,
that precedes Maxwell's definitions and use in his works.
Regarding Sue's questions:
Maxwell wrote many papers on many things
Here's one on Van der Waals forces.
Scientific Papers Vol II. pp 407-416
Van der Waals on the continuity of the gaseous and liquid state.
Maxwell mentions London in the following letter:
"TO REV. LEWIS CAMPBELL.
Aberdeen, 15th March 1858.
When we had done with the eclipse to-day, the next calculation was about the
conjunction. The rough
approximations bring it out early in June. . . .
The first part of May I will be busy at home. The second part I may go to
Cambridge, to London, to Brighton,
as may be devised. After which we concentrate our two selves at Aberdeen by
the principle of concerted tactics.
This done, we steal a march, and throw our forces into the happy valley,
which we shall occupy without fear, and
we only wait your signals to be ready to welcome reinforcements from
Brighton. . . .
Good night.-Your
affectionate friend.
J. C. MAXWELL."
Sorcerer
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/biography/Maxwell.html
Scottish mathematician and physicist who published physical and mathematical
theories of the electromagnetic field. When he first became interested in
electricity, he wrote Kelvin asking how best to proceed. Kelvin recommended
that Maxwell read the published works in the order Faraday, Kelvin, Ampère,
and then the German physicists. He also proposed a physical theory of ether.
Maxwell made numerous other contributions to the advancement of science. He
argued that the rings of Saturn were small individual particles.
I'm still puzzled over what Maxwell ever did aside from sit in his ivory
tower and plagiarise Faraday's, Gauss's and Ampere's equations.
If arguing the obvious is a contribution to the advancement of science then
I'm the top physicist
of this era. Maybe I should write romantic nonsense poetry in a Kentish
accent. Beware the Jabberwok.
Sorcerer
"Tom Potter" <tdp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:456a57bc$0$21206$8826...@free.teranews.com...
|
| "Double-A" <doub...@hush.ai> wrote in message
| news:1164576340.3...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
| >
| > The Vampyre
| >
| > Thair is a knichte rydis through the wood,
| > And a doughty knichte is tree,
|
| "Double-A" makes a good point
Standard Potty term for "Potty wants to rant something".
Double-A didn't make a point or even try to, he quoted a poem, Potty.
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"
He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought --
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.
And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.
"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
He chortled in his joy.
`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
Did I make a "good point", Potty?
| when he points out that Maxwell was proficient
| in many fields, including poetry,
| and could write in various languages,
| including old English.
You confuse Scottish pidgin with English, Potty.
This is "old English":
LAW I.
Every body perseveres in its state of rest, or of uniform motion in a right
line, unless it is compelled to change that state by forces impressed
thereon.
Isaac Newton's Principia 1687, Translated by Andrew Motte 1729
BECAUSE NEWTON WROTE IT IN LATIN, the universal lingua franca of European
academia.
Did I make a "good point", Potty?
Let me make another.
Nos a Bore
Ar noswaith ddrycinog mi euthum i rodio
Ar lannau y Fenai gan ddistaw fyfyrio;
Y gwynt oedd yn uchel, a gwyllt oedd y wendon,
A’r môr oedd yn lluchio dros waliau Caernarfon.
Ond trannoeth y bore mi euthum i rodio
Hyd lannau y Fenai, tawelwch oedd yno;
Y gwynt oedd yn ddistaw, a’r môr oedd yn dirion,
A’r haul oedd yn twrynnu ar waliau Caernarfon.
Night and Morning
One night of tempest I arose and went
Along the Menai shore on dreaming bent;
The wind was strong, and savage swung the tide,
And the waves blustered on Caernarfon side.
But on the morrow, when I passed that way,
On Menai shore the hush of heaven lay;
The wind was gentle and the sea a flower,
And the sun slumbered on Caernarfon tower.
|
| Maxwell's friends observed that he
| seemed to know everything about everything.
In other words they were an ignorant bunch, you'd fit in well with them.
Androcles.
Tom Potter
"Sorcerer" <Headm...@hogwarts.physics_e> wrote in message
news:dYyah.21113$Pk.1...@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "Tom Potter" <tdp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:456a57bc$0$21206$8826...@free.teranews.com...
> |
> | "Double-A" <doub...@hush.ai> wrote in message
> | news:1164576340.3...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> | >
> | > The Vampyre
> | >
> | > Thair is a knichte rydis through the wood,
> | > And a doughty knichte is tree,
> |
> | "Double-A" makes a good point
>
> Standard Potty term for "Potty wants to rant something".
>
> Double-A didn't make a point or even try to, he quoted a poem, Potty.
Don't be so naive "Sorcerer".
As you should know, Double-A
is an Einstein worshipper,
and an apologist for Israel's crimes against humanity.
He was trying to convey a false impression of Maxwell,
(In order to make Einstein look better.)
and I just tried to set the record straight.
I am sure that hanson got the point
I was making.
Anyone who has studied the history of physics
understands that Maxwell was the father of modern physics.
Maxwell introduced "Dimensional Analysis"
which is the standard against which ALL physics models must be tested.
Maths are languages.
Equations are sentences.
Units are politics.
Dimensional Analysis is physics.
( If a model doesn't fit Maxwell's Dimensions, it is not correct.)
Secondly, Maxwell established the framework for Quantum Mechanics
when he showed that statistics, rather than two-body math,
is required to model multi-body systems.
Thirdly, Maxwell established the framework for modern atomic theory
by postulating dimensionless points, and assembling the
points into atoms, molecules, and larger structures,
while leaving room for finer complex assembles of points
such as quarks and neutrinos.
Fourthly, Maxwell laid the ground work for the Bose-Einstein and Fermi-Dirac
distributions,
which are slight modifications of Maxwell's distribution
to account for the separation of matter into two classes,
bosons and fermions.
Fifthly, Einstein's much touted paper on Brownian movement
is a variation of Maxwell's more comprehensive treatment of the
velocity distribution of particles.
As can be seen,
Double-A gets all bent out of shape
when I compare Einstein to Maxwell.
The last two times I did,
he tried to get me elected to some kook award.
Sorcerer
You snipped my response, Potty. Fuck you too, arsehole.
"Tom Potter" <tdp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:456a57bc$0$21206$8826...@free.teranews.com...
|
| "Double-A" <doub...@hush.ai> wrote in message
| news:1164576340.3...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
| >
| > The Vampyre
| >
| > Thair is a knichte rydis through the wood,
| > And a doughty knichte is tree,
|
| "Double-A" makes a good point
Standard Potty term for "Potty wants to rant something".
Double-A didn't make a point or even try to, he quoted a poem, Potty.
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
You confuse Scottish pidgin with English, Potty.
Tom Potter
"Sorcerer" <Headm...@hogwarts.physics_e> wrote in message
>
> | Maxwell's friends observed that he
> | seemed to know everything about everything.
>
>
> Androcles.
I would like to thank "Sorcerer"
for suggesting that I would "fit in well with"
Maxwell and his friends.
In order to trade compliments,
I suggest that "Sorcerer"
would "fit in well with" Moortel, Varney, Wake, etc.
Double-A
Tom Potter wrote:
> "Sorcerer" <Headm...@hogwarts.physics_e> wrote in message
> news:dYyah.21113$Pk.1...@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> >
> > "Tom Potter" <tdp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:456a57bc$0$21206$8826...@free.teranews.com...
> > |
> > | "Double-A" <doub...@hush.ai> wrote in message
> > | news:1164576340.3...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> > | >
> > | > The Vampyre
> > | >
> > | > Thair is a knichte rydis through the wood,
> > | > And a doughty knichte is tree,
> > |
> > | "Double-A" makes a good point
> >
> > Standard Potty term for "Potty wants to rant something".
> >
> > Double-A didn't make a point or even try to, he quoted a poem, Potty.
>
> Don't be so naive "Sorcerer".
>
> As you should know, Double-A
> is an Einstein worshipper,
It's whatever works, Potter. I would be the first to abandon Einstein
if I found a theory that worked better.
> and an apologist for Israel's crimes against humanity.
I do not apologize for them. I just don't engage in blatant racism as
you do.
> He was trying to convey a false impression of Maxwell,
> (In order to make Einstein look better.)
> and I just tried to set the record straight.
>
> I am sure that hanson got the point
> I was making.
>
> Anyone who has studied the history of physics
> understands that Maxwell was the father of modern physics.
>
> Maxwell introduced "Dimensional Analysis"
> which is the standard against which ALL physics models must be tested.
And it just happens to fit in well with the philosophy presented at the
Potter physics site.
That last time around, you did everything possible to get yourself
elected! You insulted so many people in AUK that they nominated and
seconded you, not me, and they did so reluctantly because they don't
like me very much either.
Double-A
Sue...
[...]
Your problem seem to be with Google, not Sue... .
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Maxwell%27s+Dimensional+Analysis%22&btnG=Google+Search
Even most the guillible grad student has read "Tom Sawyer" ;-)
http://www.pbs.org/marktwain/learnmore/writings_tom.html
>
> Regarding Sue's questions:
> Maxwell wrote many papers on many things
>
> Here's one on Van der Waals forces.
> Scientific Papers Vol II. pp 407-416
> Van der Waals on the continuity of the gaseous and liquid state.
>
> Maxwell mentions London in the following letter:
>
> "TO REV. LEWIS CAMPBELL.
> Aberdeen, 15th March 1858.
>
> When we had done with the eclipse to-day, the next calculation was about the
> conjunction. The rough
> approximations bring it out early in June. . . .
>
> The first part of May I will be busy at home. The second part I may go to
> Cambridge, to London, to Brighton,
> as may be devised. After which we concentrate our two selves at Aberdeen by
> the principle of concerted tactics.
>
> This done, we steal a march, and throw our forces into the happy valley,
> which we shall occupy without fear, and
> we only wait your signals to be ready to welcome reinforcements from
> Brighton. . . .
I have mentioned Mother Teresa in letters.
Does that make me a nun ?
I had no idea they named a city after Fritz London.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_London
Those Brits have a love of physics that we all should
appreciate more.
Sue...
Sorcerer
|
| "Sorcerer" <Headm...@hogwarts.physics_e> wrote in message
| news:IJLah.16900$bz5....@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
| >
| > | Maxwell's friends observed that he
| > | seemed to know everything about everything.
| >
| ..you'd fit in well with them..
| >
| > Androcles.
|
| I would like to thank "Sorcerer"
| for suggesting that I would "fit in well with"
| Maxwell and his friends.
|
| In order to trade compliments,
| I suggest that "Sorcerer"
| would "fit in well with" Moortel, Varney, Wake, etc.
I'm not a know-it-all like you or those friends of yours, Potty.
Your suggestion is rejected, idiot that thinks Scottish pidgin
is old English and maliciously maligns by inferring Double-A
was in some way deriding Maxwell by quoting poetry without
any further comment, jabberwock.
Whether I agree with Double-A on Einstein or not is irrelevant,
I know he made no disparaging remark by quoting a poem.
You owe Double-A an apology, I saw no criticism of Maxwell
in his post, any that you saw was in your imagination, dumbfuck.
G=EMC^2 Glazier
friend in the world of reality. Good thing I don't have a jackass to
talk to. My enemies would jump on that Did not talk to Moby with sound
waves. It was sign language. Like a parrot that can learn dirty words
first Rudy's first sign was to give me an Italian salute,if I fed her
late. Go figure Bert
tdp...@gmail.com
I am pleased to see that Double-A
gives me credit for "insulting" the immature sociopaths
who populate AUK and spread their filth and nonsense
into numerous other newsgroups.
Note for example, that one of Double-A's buddies in AUK
spammed scores of newsgroups with hundreds of posts,
trying to get ten more sociopaths to join him,
in voting me some kind of kook award.
As the sci.physics regulars know,
Double-A is responsible for luring the AUK idiots
into sci.physics and alt.astronomy
and corrupting these newsgroups,
with his habit of trying to get the sci.physics posters
who expose his ignorance,
voted one of these stupid kook awards,
and by redirecting posts to alt.kooks.
Apparently, Double-A thinks <sic>,
like many immature, immoral, fools,
that ten AUK idiots voting someone a kook award,
is of great significance.
Double-A is right about one thing.
If you want to design a worm hole, or a time machine,
or rubber rulers and clocks,
General Relativity is the way to go.
tdp...@gmail.com
What's your point Sue?
I asserted that Maxwell clearly laid out the
principles of Dimensional Analysis in his works,
and that he was the first to do so.
If you take issue with that,
post ANY reference that shows that someone
other then Maxwell made the big leap to
Dimensional Analysis.
No doubt Newton's
"RULES OF REASONING IN PHILOSOPHY"
was a step toward Dimensional Analysis,
but Maxwell was the first to use a few
"Fundamental Properties"
as pointers to the generally accepted physical properties.
Newton's RULE I
"We are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both
true
and sufficient to explain their appearances.
To this purpose the philosophers say that Nature does nothing in vain,
and
more is in vain when less will serve;
for Nature is pleased with simplicity, and affects not the pomp of
superfluous causes. "
There are numerous PROPERTIES
accessible to the mind of man,
and only a small subset of them can be measured,
and computed.
Maxwell organized these,
and used time, the del factor (Spaces) and mass
as pointers to the physical properties,
and used permittivity and permeability
to couple the mechanical properties to
the electric and magnetic properties.
No doubt, as time goes by,
others will do as Maxwell did with charge,
and use baryon number and hyper-charge,
as pointers to strong and weak force properties
in time and space,
(Like electric, magnetic and mass forces in time and space,)
and in time other fundamental properties
like charge, baryon number and hyper-charge, will be used
to point to an expanding set of properties.
If anyone wants to see a clear outline of where
this is going, I suggest that they visit my web sites,
and download the PDF article
"Uniting the four forces".
tdp...@gmail.com
What's your point Sue?
and download the PDF article
"Uniting the four forces".
tdp...@gmail.com
"Sorcerer" <Headm...@hogwarts.physics_e> wrote in message
You're very naive for a Sorcerer "Sorcerer".
If you think that Double-A responded to my post
as he did, to flatter Maxwell by quoting one of his
many poems, I'd like to sell you a bridge in Brooklyn.
I used the phrase "Old English"
to counter the impression that Double-A
was trying to create about Maxwell,
and as can be seen,
I added another Maxwell poem
that demonstrated how he was able to
combine poetry, math and physics.
As can be seen from my many posts,
I only "malign" the people who "malign" me,
and as can be seen, Double-A often tries to
"malign" me and others.
As can be seen Double-A is one of the alt.kook regulars,
and is responsible for dragging several of these
immature neurotics into sci.physics and alt.astronomy.
I suggest that you learn better
how to evaluate people, their agendas,
and their methods.
Sorcerer
<tdp...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1164809884....@l39g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
Ok, I'll buy it -- conditional on you being honest, it is yours to sell
and I can afford the price. Otherwise I'll sue you for fraud.
Go ahead, sell me the bridge. You're very naive for a Potter, "Potty".
|
| I used the phrase "Old English"
| to counter the impression that Double-A
| was trying to create about Maxwell,
| and as can be seen,
| I added another Maxwell poem
| that demonstrated how he was able to
| combine poetry, math and physics.
Is that why you don't know the difference between Anglo-Gaelic pidgin
and English? You are not honest, Potty, you tried to sell me a bridge
you don't own.
Double-A created a favourable impression about Maxwell,
I didn't know Maxwell was so romantic.
You owe Double-A an apology, fuckhead.
|
| As can be seen from my many posts,
| I only "malign" the people who "malign" me,
| and as can be seen, Double-A often tries to
| "malign" me and others.
Telling the truth is not a crime. Trying to sell bridges you don't
own is attempted fraud. You are a criminal, Potty, and that
isn't maligning you, you are guilty by your own words. Calling
you a fuckhead is maligning you. You maligned Double-A, you rat.
|
| As can be seen Double-A is one of the alt.kook regulars,
You've just maligned him again, you arsehole.
| and is responsible for dragging several of these
| immature neurotics into sci.physics and alt.astronomy.
|
And yet again, you miserable cunt.
I enjoyed the poem, you shit, and it doesn't malign anyone.
| I suggest that you learn better
| how to evaluate people, their agendas,
| and their methods.
Look in the mirror, Potty. You'll see a bitter, naive fuckhead looking
back at you. Double-A added no comment of his own to the poem.
You own him an apology, you bastard who makes unjustified inferences.
Double-A
On the contrary, we've been trying to get them out of alt.astronomy for
the last year!
Double-A
Double-A
I have barely posted at all to sci.physics over the last couple years.
In alt.astronomy, I and others have been constantly harassed by them.
They came to sci.physics of their own accord.
> and corrupting these newsgroups,
> with his habit of trying to get the sci.physics posters
> who expose his ignorance,
> voted one of these stupid kook awards,
> and by redirecting posts to alt.kooks.
I never nominated anyone from sci.physics for a kook award except for
you that one time because you were being such a jerk, and as I recall,
it drew many unsolicited testimonials from sci.physics regulars as to
why you should receive the award.
> Apparently, Double-A thinks <sic>,
> like many immature, immoral, fools,
> that ten AUK idiots voting someone a kook award,
> is of great significance.
>
> Double-A is right about one thing.
>
> If you want to design a worm hole, or a time machine,
> or rubber rulers and clocks,
> General Relativity is the way to go.
How about a GPS satellite system?
Double-A
tdp...@gmail.com
>
> tdp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> As can be seen Double-A is one of the alt.kook regulars,
>> and is responsible for dragging several of these
>> immature neurotics into sci.physics and alt.astronomy.
>
> On the contrary, we've been trying to get them out of alt.astronomy for
> the last year!
>
> Double-A
Considering that Double-A,
is responsible for drawing the flood of idiots
from alt.kook into sci.physics and alt.astronomy
it is altogether fitting and proper
that he should "get them out".
As can be seen from Double-A's history,
some of which is listed below:
1. He first criticized a poster from alt.kook.
2. Then he adopted the alt.kook tactic
of slandering folks, and used the tactic
in his attempt to slander me.
3. Then, as can be seen, he spammed the
science newsgroups and added alt.kook
to the headers, thus attracting the interests
of those idiots, and drawing them into
sci.physics and alt.astronomy.
Some old Double-A's posts.
===================
From: "Double-A" <doubl...@hush.ai>
Newsgroups: alt.astronomy,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.fan.art-bell
Subject: Re: NOMINATION: Re: classic poppycock- -summation
Date: 2 May 2005 18:58:39 -0700
Why don't you guys conduct your business in your own Kook group and not
spill it over into alt.astronomy?
Double-A
================
From: doubl...@hush.ai
Newsgroups:
alt.usenet.kooks,sci.physics,alt.astronomy,alt.fan.art-bell,alt.sci.physics
Subject: NOMINATION: Tom Potter for the Victor von Frankenstein "Weird
Science" Award
Date: 18 Jun 2005 13:54:05 -0700
I hereby NOMINATE Tom Potter for the prestigious Victor von
Frankenstein
"Weird Science" Kook Award.
Tom has well earned this award through his many years of posting crank
physics and is a registered crank at crank.net since 1999.
http://www.crank.net/quantum.html
His cranky website is at
(Be sure to turn your sound way up!)
Are there any SECONDS?
Double-A
=============
From: "Double-A" <doubl...@hush.ai>
Newsgroups:
alt.astronomy,alt.usenet.kooks,sci.physics,alt.fan.art-bell,alt.sci.physics
Subject: Congratulations Tom Potter!
Date: 20 Jun 2005 19:11:57 -0700
I'm sure you will be happy to hear that Tom Potter's nomination for the
"Victor von Frankenstein "Weird Science" Award" has now been officially
Accepted!
Congratulations Tom!
You have deserved this kook award for years!
http://www.insurgent.org/~kook-faq/nominations.html
Thanks to all of you who helped make this nomination for Tom possible.
And don't forget to vote for Tom when the ballets come out after the
end of the month.
Double-A
===============
From: "Double-A" <doubl...@hush.ai>
Newsgroups:
alt.usenet.kooks,sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity,alt.sci.physics,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: VOTE! Usenet Kook Awards, June 2005
Date: 1 Jul 2005 12:46:18 -0700
I am forwarding the following unaltered copy of the official Kook
Awards
ballot.
If you think Tom Potter should be awarded his Weird
Science kook award, this is your chance to vote for him.
He faces tough competition so your every vote counts!
====================
End of Double-A's old posts.
Sorcerer
<tdp...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1164859555.8...@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
|
| "Double-A" <doub...@hush.ai> wrote in message
| news:1164827280....@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| >
| > tdp...@gmail.com wrote:
| >
| >> As can be seen Double-A is one of the alt.kook regulars,
| >> and is responsible for dragging several of these
| >> immature neurotics into sci.physics and alt.astronomy.
| >
| > On the contrary, we've been trying to get them out of alt.astronomy for
| > the last year!
| >
| > Double-A
|
| Considering that Double-A,
Just like Dork Van de fumble mumbler, you want to drag up old shit
and avoid discussion of physics, Potty. That's because you are a cunt.
Fuck off.
Tom Potter
>
> tdp...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Double-A is right about one thing.
>>
>> If you want to design a worm hole, or a time machine,
>> or rubber rulers and clocks,
>> General Relativity is the way to go.
>
> How about a GPS satellite system?
"Double-A" raises a good point that
it might be of value to people ignorant of the technologies that
went into the GPS system to examine
what the relative contributions
of some of the technologies were.
Semiconductor technology - 30%
Rocket technology - 30%
Communications technology - 15%
Software technology 13%
Information theory - 10%
Antenna technology - 1%
The Galileo effect - 1%
General Relativity - 0%
Jesus - 0%
Moses - 0%
Astrology - 0%
Of course, it may be that the "contribution" of General Relativity
was a negative, as the GTR Gurus used 13 complicated, time-consuming,
hacks of GTR to account for the desired frequency offset in the orbiting
oscillators,
when it could be done with one, simple equation
determined by Galileo over 3000 years ago.
As can be seen,
the European community named their GPS system
the Galileo system in honor of Galileo's works.
It is interesting to see that the GTR Guru's
don't seem to comprehend why the frequency offset
is DESIRABLE but not essential
to the operation of the GPS system,
and they don't seem to know that the output frequency
of an oscillator can be scaled up or down electronically.
In other what is important is the stability of the oscillators,
not the absolute frequency, which can be, AND IS,
adjusted to the desired values.
--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
The Thing
> Of course, it may be that the "contribution" of General Relativity
> was a negative, as the GTR Gurus used 13 complicated, time-consuming,
> hacks of GTR to account for the desired frequency offset in the orbiting
> oscillators, when it could be done with one, simple equation
> determined by Galileo over 3000 years ago.
>
So Galileo was a time traveler? No doubt your understanding of physics is
as accurate as your history.
Regards
The
Double-A
Uh...?
> As can be seen,
> the European community named their GPS system
> the Galileo system in honor of Galileo's works.
So when do you think Maxwell lived?
> It is interesting to see that the GTR Guru's
> don't seem to comprehend why the frequency offset
> is DESIRABLE but not essential
> to the operation of the GPS system,
> and they don't seem to know that the output frequency
> of an oscillator can be scaled up or down electronically.
They should have stuck with that 3000 year old math, huh?
> In other what is important is the stability of the oscillators,
> not the absolute frequency, which can be, AND IS,
> adjusted to the desired values.
Close enough for government work, huh?
> --
> Tom Potter
Double-A
Eric Gisse
Tom Potter wrote:
[...]
>
> Of course, it may be that the "contribution" of General Relativity
> was a negative, as the GTR Gurus used 13 complicated, time-consuming,
> hacks of GTR to account for the desired frequency offset in the orbiting
> oscillators,
When are you going to explain what these 13 "hacks" of general
relativity are, crackpotter?
> when it could be done with one, simple equation
> determined by Galileo over 3000 years ago.
The first time you did that, I thought it was a typo.
Now...I guess you really do think Galileo lived over 3000 years ago.
[....]
Phineas T Puddleduck
"Eric Gisse" <jow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The first time you did that, I thought it was a typo.
>
> Now...I guess you really do think Galileo lived over 3000 years ago.
> [....]
Trying to second guess pitterpatterPotter's thought processes lead to an
aching brain ;-)
--
Just \int_0^\infty du it!
hanson
> "Sorcerer" <Headm...@hogwarts.physics_e> wrote in message
> news:dYyah.21113$Pk.1...@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>> | news:1164576340.3...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Don't be so naive "Sorcerer".
> As you should know, Double-A is an Einstein worshipper,
> and an apologist for Israel's crimes against humanity.
>
>
No, Tom, I didn't. What point are you talking about? I was
nowhere in this thread, but since we are on your favorite subject,
I say **if**, AA is a Jew then of course does he treat Einstein
& his Rel as his cultural heritage. Hell, Israel wanted Albert to
become its 1st head of State. But typically Jewish, Albert refused
it since he preferred the company of the goyim... ahahaha....
Now you, Potter, tell us now why that is so... ahahahaha...
If AA is not Jewish then he maybe just a run of the mill
Einstein Dingleberry who can't help himself, like a whole bunch
of other sp posters that are hooked on that geriatric physics of yore...
So, let'em sing Potter. After all if it would not be for them, sp would
be a very bland 24/7 cyber party indeed.... ahahahaha....
AFA your battle cry of "Israel's crimes against humanity"... well,
there is not a single nation on earth that has not been accused
of that charge, ... and interestingly enough these are the same
words that you have uttered against Bush in the last few years.
Even more interesting though is that your wish may have come a
step closer to fruition with the entire world becoming more and
more anti-Semitic, even the US itself, except for the (Neo-cons =)
Jew faction that is phonely and DOUBLE FACED opposed to
the just published new book by President Jimmy Carter:
*** "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid" *** (Simon & Schuster)
Google -- [ Jimmy Carter King Palestine ]-- 542,000 hits
I say double-faced because the Zionists do see such AntiSemitism
as a precious and valuable thing and "do all they can to increase
it", so that the Yids do come home to the promised land to become
soldiers in their Army of light, ... to shine upon us, the goyim: Read:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/d29c4e7587b1f592
& in 68 Google hits for --["Ariel Sharon" + "We are Judeo-Nazis"]--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/74cc3116e083c194
Potter you may rejoice in all that because the Jews have brought all
this upon themselves and hence their recruitment effort have always
been desperate ---- from back in 1945 on, where Israel took many
10'000's of German soldiers in who came back to their defeated
homeland and who gratefully converted to Judaism and fought on
for Israel -- then to the floods of US Jews (the Settlers) in the 60-80's
-- to the hordes of former Soviet Jews in the 1990's -- almost all of
them being lily white, blond and blue eyes Anglo-Slavic folks, much
to the delightful anger of the Arabs... ahaha...
Nowadays Israel seems to recognize that and has begun to tint
its human landscape by having imported a few boat loads of pitch
black Abyssinian/Sudan Jews and as of late they are recruiting
Bharat/Indians to migrate into their holey land to become Jews
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6168350.stm
ahahahaha...
So, Tom , why are you beating on them? Can't you see that they do
it masterfully all by themselves to themselves with great vigor
and élan.... ahahaha.... So what good does your cajoling bring you,
Tom?.... ahahahaha....
nightbat
hanson wrote:
nightbat
Thank you Officer hanson for the great insightful holiday cheer
for it is always nice to hear from you. My Commander Officer Double-A is
very profound in his fencing with Potter, just wish I could say the same
for Tom. Hope your holidays are going well and as always wishing you the
very best.
cheers,
the nightbat
Tom Potter
"Eric Gisse" <jow...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1164869565....@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
Considering that "Eric Gisse"
appears to accept typos and artifact as reality,
it is not surprising that he is easily conditioned
to believe such things as
"General Relativity was essential to the GPS system."
I suggest that when Eric or anyone sees something
that doesn't seem to add up,
like many of the General Relativity claims,
that they do a little research to see what the facts are.
I have posted a few references
in order to save "Eric Gisse" the trouble
of doing this research on what I believe about Galileo.
Of course, if Eric wants more details on what I believe,
I suggest that he visit my web sites,
and if he wants to know what the 13 hacks to GTR are,
I suggest that he visit the web sites
of GTR promoters who are on the public dole.
One would think
that with all this powerful, esoteric knowledge,
that the GTR Guru's would enter the private sector,
like the people from Microsoft, Apple, Dell Computer, Google, Yahoo, etc.,
(And tj frazir)
and make a few billion bucks.
Einstein's Relativity and Everyday Life -- Clifford M. Will
</group/sci.physics/browse_frm/thread/ef45115b635612f/316891461a82321f?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1>
... The effect discovered by Galileo over 300 years ago, that oscillators
are affected by acceleration, has been co-opted by the General Relativity
Cult. ... sci.physics </group/sci.physics?lnk=sg> - Jun 14, 12:50 pm by Tom
Potter
Chandra solves black hole mystery
</group/sci.physics/browse_frm/thread/a90ad7a3adf779e/e6a616e79c7232e1?lnk=st&q=&rnum=2>
... A single equation discovered by Galileo over 300 years ago predicts the
affect of acceleration on the GPS oscillators, and one does not need 13
hacks of ... sci.physics </group/sci.physics?lnk=sg> - Jun 29, 1:27 am by
Tom Potter
Is this good argument? (existence of atoms)
</group/sci.physics/browse_frm/thread/19c9ca858fa3f9c1/b5dfcfbdbfb9f1bd?lnk=st&q=&rnum=3>
... hacks of GTR in order to model the frequency offset of the GPS system,
which can be done with one simple equation, discovered by Galileo over 300
years ago. ... sci.physics </group/sci.physics?lnk=sg> - Oct 12, 7:39 am by
Tom Potter
Tom Potter
"The Thing" <tth...@northpole.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.11.30....@northpole.com...
Excuse my typo.
Galileo discovered that acceleration
affected vibrating systems about 1600 A.D.,
(Over 400 years ago.)
and in the 1700's, England sent ships
all over the world with standard pendulums
to measure the swings from sunrise to sunrise.
Newton used this data to compute many things
about the Earth, including its' shape, it's size,
the tides in various places, etc.
As can be seen, the European Community
is honoring Galileo's contribution to the GPS system
by naming their system after him,
as they saved an enormous amount of time and money
by using the ONE equation discover by Galileo
over "300 years ago",
to compute the desired frequency offset for the satellite oscillators.
As the "Thing" seems to be questioning
my "understanding of physics" because of an obvious typo,
I trust that he will post and discuss some of my misunderstandings,
so that I can either correct my misunderstandings,
or educate him.
The Thing
Mr. Potter expects people to correct his misunderstanding
when they are clearly so deeply ingrained undertaking such
a task would be fruitless. He clearly neither understands
physics nor the rule of diminishing returns.
Regards
The
Tom Potter
"Mr. Potter <doesn't> expect people to correct his misunderstanding"
He expects the people who make assertions
to back up their assertions with evidence.
Note for example, that the "Thing"
usually attacks the messenger
rather than addressing messages
in a rational, intelligent way,
and note that the "Thing" talks about
"the rule of diminishing returns".
It seems to me that the "Thing" should heed this law,
and not waste his time attacking messengers,
as there is nothing to be gained from this.
Of course, there could be a gain for the "Thing"
if he addressed messages, and found out
that it was he, who has "deeply ingrained" "misunderstandings."
But, as the "Thing" seems to be motivated
by cheap ego trips, rather than by acquiring knowledge,
it is doubtful that he will address messages,
so you can expect to see the "Thing"
do his "Thing" and attack messengers.
--
Tom Potter
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
--
Tom Potter
"hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote in message
news:92Jbh.17677$Uz.1539@trnddc05...
> "Tom Potter" <tdp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:456b69a4$0$21221$8826...@free.teranews.com...
>> "Sorcerer" <Headm...@hogwarts.physics_e> wrote in message
>> news:dYyah.21113$Pk.1...@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>> | "Double-A" <doub...@hush.ai> wrote in message
>>> | news:1164576340.3...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>>
> [Tom in some argument with Andro & AA]
>> Don't be so naive "Sorcerer".
>> As you should know, Double-A is an Einstein worshipper,
>> and an apologist for Israel's crimes against humanity.
>>
>> I am sure that hanson got the point I was making.
>>
> [hanson]
> No, Tom, I didn't. What point are you talking about?
I am surprised to see that hanson did not
get the "point" that I was making,
and that was, that Double-A's
post of the poem by Maxwell
was not to praise Maxwell, but to bury him.
(With apologies to Shakespeare.)
And that Double-A wanted to "bury Maxwell",
because Maxwell's contributions to Physics
far outshine those of Einstein,
whom Double-A worships and promotes.
For example,
Maxwell introduced "Dimensional Analysis"
which is the standard
against which ALL physics models must be tested.
Equations are maths.
Units are politics.
Dimensional Analysis is physics.
( If a model doesn't fit Maxwell's Dimensions, it is not correct.)
Secondly, Maxwell established the framework for Quantum Mechanics
when he showed that statistics, rather than two-body math,
is required to model multi-body systems.
Thirdly, Maxwell established the framework for modern atomic theory
by postulating dimensionless points, and assembling the
points into atoms, molecules, and larger structures,
while leaving room for finer complex assembles of points
such as quarks and neutrinos.
Fourthly, Maxwell laid the ground work for the Bose-Einstein and Fermi-Dirac
distributions,
which are slight modifications of Maxwell's distribution
to account for the separation of matter into two classes, bosons and
fermions.
Fifthly, Einstein's much touted paper on Brownian movement
is a variation of Maxwell's more comprehensive treatment of the
velocity distribution of particles.
--
Tom Potter
Double-A makes a good point,
when he points out that the maths
developed over the centuries
have served man well.
I was disappointed to see that Double-A
confused "stability" with "proximity".
As I pointed out,
the "stability" of the oscillators
used in the GPS system is the key factor,
NOT the "proximity" of the output frequency
to some desired frequency,
as one can adjust the frequency of
a "stable" oscillator to another value,
with the use of frequency multipliers and dividers.
Also as I point out,
the OBSERVED frequency of an oscillator
is a function of many things, including:
distance - Hubble Effect
velocity - Doppler Effect.
acceleration - Galileo Effect
Of course, these effects were taken into consideration
by the people who designed the GPS system,
and they are taken into account by the
technicians, engineers, and users of the system.
For example as the acceleration "g",
is a function of the distance a body is from the Earth,
the designers took the Galileo Effect into account
when designing the GPS system.
It is interesting to see that General Relativity
lumps all of these effects into one extremely difficult to solve equation,
and then in order to use the results has to
break out, and account for all of the effects
such as the Hubble Effect, the Doppler Effect, the Galileo Effect, etc.
In other words,
when you have a set of orthogonal properties,
it is more simple, more clear, and more practical,
more time expedient, and less costly,
to attack each orthogonal property separately,
than it is to mix them all together,
and then resort them out again later.
Using GTR to solve these problems
is like making sausage, and then
separating out the components to
find the weight of the end product.
In other words,
while it would take a layman a few minutes to determine
the observed frequency of a moving body
using the combined Hubble, Doppler, and Galileo effects,
it would take a GTR Guru days to determine it using GTR.
Time is a terrible thing to waste.
Eric Gisse
Tom Potter wrote:
[...snip evasion...]
So what are the 13 hacks of general relativity, crackpotter? You keep
talking about them but you seem oddly incapable of explaining *what
they are*.
tdp...@gmail.com
Also as I have pointed out,
the OBSERVED frequency of an oscillator
is a function of many things, including:
distance - Hubble Effect
velocity - Doppler Effect.
acceleration - Galileo Effect
jerk - Gisse Effect
Of course, these effects were taken into consideration
by the people who designed the GPS system,
and they are taken into account by the
technicians, engineers, and users of the system.
For example as the acceleration "g",
is a function of the distance a body is from the Earth,
the designers took the Galileo Effect into account
when designing the GPS system.
It is interesting to see that General Relativity
lumps all of these effects (And more)
into one extremely difficult to solve equation,
and then in order to use the results has to
break out, and account for all of the effects
such as the Hubble Effect, the Doppler Effect, the Galileo Effect, etc.
When you have a set of orthogonal properties,
it is more simple, more clear, and more practical,
more time expedient, and less costly,
to attack each orthogonal property separately,
than it is to mix them all together,
and then resort them out again later.
Using GTR to solve these problems
is like making sausage, and then
separating out the components to
find the weight of the end product.
In other words,
while it would take a layman a few minutes to determine
the observed frequency of a moving body
using the combined Hubble, Doppler, and Galileo effects,
it would take a GTR Guru days to determine it using GTR.
And of course, some GTR Gurus on the taxpayer dole
lump up to 13 real and imagined effects into the GTR model,
and make some real serious sausage, that accounts for
frequency variations far beyond man's capacity
to measure, or even compute.
Considering that the GTR gang claim to
possess powerful, esoteric knowledge,
I wonder when they will go into the private sector,
like the Microsoft, Apple, Intel, Motorola, Google, Yahoo people did,
and make billions of dollars?
Time is a terrible thing to waste.
--
Eric Gisse
tdp...@gmail.com wrote:
[snip boring rant]
> And of course, some GTR Gurus on the taxpayer dole
> lump up to 13 real and imagined effects into the GTR model,
> and make some real serious sausage, that accounts for
> frequency variations far beyond man's capacity
> to measure, or even compute.
What might these 13 hacks of general relativity be, crackpotter?
How many times do you think I have asked you this question and you have
ignored or evaded it? It is a hell of a lot more than 13.
[...]
hanson
> "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote in message
> news:92Jbh.17677$Uz.1539@trnddc05...
>> "Tom Potter" <tdp...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:456b69a4$0$21221$8826...@free.teranews.com...
>>> "Sorcerer" <Headm...@hogwarts.physics_e> wrote in message
>>> news:dYyah.21113$Pk.1...@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>> | "Double-A" <doub...@hush.ai> wrote in message
>>>> | news:1164576340.3...@n67g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>> [Tom in some argument with Andro & AA]
>>> Don't be so naive "Sorcerer".
>>> As you should know, Double-A is an Einstein worshipper,
>>> and an apologist for Israel's crimes against humanity.
>>>
>>> I am sure that hanson got the point I was making.
>>>
>> [hanson]
>> No, Tom, I didn't. What point are you talking about?
>
> I am surprised to see that hanson did not
> get the "point" that I was making,
>
.... ahahaha... But, Tom, you are laboring under some misapplied
and megaloamenaical notion & vision that I should and must follow
NG posts to "get" everyones' including your point.... AHAHAHA...
Let me set you at ease here, Tom. ... ... hanson is here to post
for fun and to wind up those many fanatics and self-aggrandizing
pseudo intellects who do really believe that national-, international,
science- and enviro POLICIES are made or influenced here on the
Usenet at/in these insane 27/7 cyber parties here...
hanson is a participant here as a bonviviant and commentator on all
walks of life. hanson doesn't care if you believe him or not... ahahaha..
ahahahaha...
>
[Tom]
ahahaha... But Tom, I really do not care at the moment what issues
you have with AA... ahahaha... But you have made a fine exposé
of your scientific beliefs above, and it would interest me to see a
calculation (step by step equations & numbers, with/from specified
materials chosen by you) ***starting with Maxwell's curl equations
(& numeric values) and ... end it with telling me how many (#'s of)
windings it takes for a magnet to lift a 10 kg block of steel off the
ground, given a current and voltage selected by you.****
>
[Tom]
> Fifthly, Einstein's much touted paper on Brownian movement
> is a variation of Maxwell's more comprehensive treatment of the
> velocity distribution of particles.
>
That is your view which I will not contest but add that, speculatively
though, it is quite possibe that Albert's work on Brownian movement
may have had the potential to lead physics into a very different
direction. Unfortunately after Einstein published in 1905 the
(in) famous SR manuscript of his 1st Christian wife's, Mileva Maric,
that (BM) route of scientific inquiry was derailed by the Zionists in
Germany who hijacked Einstein & his SR to prove the superiority
and grandeur of the Chosen/Jewish mind & intellect. Read here:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/3519d92d18984b8c
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/c317bb71e593ff8b
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/msg/f4c0dda74adee07e
Because of the steamreoller effect of relativity which flattend all
other routes of inquiry... it took another 25 years until BM finally
made **the existence of atoms** to be an officially accepted fact
when Perrin got his Nobel for it in 1929 and elevated N_A,
Avogadro's Number to the rank of fundamental physical constants.
But still as of today Einstein Dingleberries, almost only active in
the USA and Israel, do still harp and whine loudly in the darkness of
the practically useless cul de sac of Relativity (which you, Tom, do
call with equal justification a tower of Babel, ... well a babble to be
more precise) since we could/should be by now **experimenting**
near or in the realm of Planck's domain at l_pl = sqrt (hbar*G/c^3),
t_pl = l_pl/c and m_pl = sqrt (hbar * c/G) which show clean & elegant
that 1 mole of l_pl equals exactly the Bohr radius of the H-atom via
r_H / l_pl = (N_A*pi*sqrt3) and how gravitation relates to charge
by l_pl = (e/c^2) * sqrt (G/a) or re-written as either e^2/G = m_pl^2/a
or as e^2/m_pl^2 = G/a .... and all of these relations were known
and are going back to 1899 with/from Max Planck's supreme insight
into physics when he said:
=== "Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our
=== disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." -- Max Planck
ahahahaha... ahahahanson