Sam Wormley is as transparent as glass.
Tom Potter
"Sam Wormley" <swor...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:TYBXh.14228$n_.9947@attbi_s21...
>
> Oh, Potter, thanks for registering at crank dot net!
> http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Tom+Potter%22+site%3Awww.crank.net
Sam Wormley is the Dick Cheney of sci.physics,
and is as transparent as glass.
Every time one of Sam's neurotic buddies
nominates me for one of those kook awards,
Sam goes on a feeding frenzy
trying to call attention to what his sick buddies say about me,
rather than focus on what I say on my web sites and in my posts.
As can be seen, Sam's CURRENT number one reference
is the attack web site of an unemployed computer programmer,
who took some data processing classes
at a third rate California college.
( I must point out that I was the inspiration for
Sam's number one reference (Eric Max Francis)
setting up his attack web site
when I exposed his ignorance on sci.physics several years ago.)
I predict that if Sam Wormley and his buddies
(Puddleduck, Double-A, Gisse, Art Deco, Wake, etc.)
get five of ten other immature clowns to vote me one of these science
kook
awards, that this will become Sam's NEW number one reference.
and I am looking forward to calling attention to
the quality and character of Sam's references,
whenever he cites them.
I'll stick with Newton, Maxwell, Bohr, Planck, Schrodinger, etc.
Sam can stick with Eric Max Francis, Gisse, Puddleduck, Art Deco,
Wake,
and the small gang that hangs out in alt.kook
and spams the serious news groups with their immature, inane posts.
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
Sam Wormley
Potter's puny peter caught in the pinchers?
Tom Potter
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sam's right about a
"puny peter caught in the pinchers".
As can be seen
Sam stuck his "puny peter" into the "pinchers"
by associating himself with such physics notables,
and such decent, intelligent, mature, rational people
as Puddleduck, Double-A, Gisse, Art Deco, Wake,
and the misfits who hang out in alt.kook.
As I mentioned, I'll stick with references
like Newton, Maxwell, Schrodinger,Bohr, etc.
and Sam can have the Dork Moortel, Eric Max Francis,
and alt.kook misfits as his major references.
To each his own.
Sam Wormley
Potter continues to rage...
Eric Gisse
[...]
It's curious.
You have been posting to USENET for well over 10 years.
A quick look through the archive shows you making the same anti-
science arguments in 1995 as you are now.
Why even bother posting to USENET, Tom? Nobody respects you or your
ideas.
malibu
The difference between him and
you, Goose, is that he *has* ideas.
One day you might get one, too.
John
Sam Wormley
Wow, John, can you site an idea of Potter's that you have learned
physics from?
Eric Gisse
Too bad every one I have seen in regard to physics has been worthless.
>
> One day you might get one, too.
What makes you think I don't?
>
> John
Tom Potter
> malibu wrote:
> > On Apr 28, 1:15 am, Eric Gisse <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> [...]
>
> >> It's curious.
>
> >> You have been posting to USENET for well over 10 years.
>
> >> A quick look through the archive shows you making the same anti-
> >> science arguments in 1995 as you are now.
>
> >> Why even bother posting to USENET, Tom? Nobody respects you or your
> >> ideas.
>
> > The difference between him and
> > you, Goose, is that he *has* ideas.
>
> > One day you might get one, too.
>
> > John
>
> Wow, John, can you site an idea of Potter's that you have learned
>
> - Show quoted text -
"cite"?
Considering that I do post an original idea
now and then,
and Sam avoids exposing his lack of knowledge of
physics, General Relativity and the GPS system,
by attacking messengers and posting
the URLs familiar to almost everyone,
a tougher test would be for malibu to "cite"
"an idea of <Wormley's> that <he> learned physics from?"
Of course, my web site does feature a unique
Physical Properties Chart
that shows the relationships between the physics properties,
much as the Periodic Chart shows the relationships between
the elements,
and it also features a unique Atomic Particle Chart
that shows the relationship between the long-lived atomic particles,
and the elements, and shows the decay paths of the various
particles along with the decay properties.
I have received email from many folks
(Even from colleges and agencies like NASA.)
indicating that they learned something from the charts,
and some mentioned that they wish they had access to
charts like these when they attended college.
Hopefully a few folks have learned from my posts
that General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
that wastes time, money and minds
on such pursuits as time travel, worm holes,
warping through space, rubber clocks and rulers, etc.
It is helpful to compare General Relativity to other models.
After Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.
After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.
After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind, etc.
I noticed in the news in the last few days,
that the DNA model was recently used to develop
a new form of rice that will prevent 500,000 children
from going blind EVERY YEAR,
and that was used to convert blood types,
and that people with rare blood types will have a safe
supply of blood in the future.
And I saw in the news a few days ago,
that DNA was used to determine the father of
Anna Nicole Smith's baby, and thus keep the baby out
of the hands of a person who might have murdered the Baby's
mother and uncle.
As can be seen Newton's, Maxwell's and the DNA model
are being used daily **in the free market** in "fruitful" ways,
and as can be seen from the recent Gravity Probe B reports,
General relativity continues to waste billions of dollars
on experiments designed to prove it,
using various Classical Physics hacks to compensate for
electric and magnetic effects, friction, windage,
metal creep, etc, the atmosphere, etc.
With a record like this,
it is not surprising that the GTR Cult is
desparate to make the false claim
that GTR was essential to the GPS system.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
(And the taxpayers money spent on billion dollar projects
trying to rational General Relativity, like Gravity Probe B ain't
hay.)
Sam Wormley
>
> Hopefully a few folks have learned from my posts
> that General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
> that wastes time, money and minds
> on such pursuits as time travel, worm holes,
> warping through space, rubber clocks and rulers, etc.
>
It really sticks in your craw, eh Potter, that a scientific theory,
you try to disparage, significantly contributes to a $30B+ industry,
creating a global infrastructure benefiting people all over the world.
Space and time are malleable and Einstein predicted. You should
embrace this creativity of the human mind, Potter, and praise the
engineers and scientists would have made it all work!
Eric Gisse
[...]
>
> With a record like this,
> it is not surprising that the GTR Cult is
> desparate to make the false claim
> that GTR was essential to the GPS system.
Why do you continue to lie, Tom?
Tom Potter
> Tom Potterwrote:
As can be seen from my posts,
I love science and technology,
and I "praise" the folks who advance science and technology.
but I do object to Cultists trying to con folks into
thinking that their God was responsible for all good things.
As I have pointed out,
General Relativity is more of a Religion
than a viable, useful too,
and it wastes time, money and minds.
As General Relativity cannot demonstrate that
it is viable and useful,
about all GTR Cultists can do
is make the false claim that it is/was essential to the GPS system.
I suggest that anyone who thinks that General Relativity
plays an important role in the GPS system,
should visit the web page of EarthScope,
the organization that uses the GPS system to its' finest level.
http://www.earthscope.org/index.php
"What is EarthScope?
EarthScope is a bold undertaking to apply modern observational,
analytical and telecommunications technologies to investigate the
structure and evolution of the North American continent..
EarthScope is funded by the National Science Foundation and conducted
in partnership with the US Geological Survey and NASA.
Global positioning satellite receivers, strainmeters and new satellite
radar imagery will measure and map the smallest movements across
faults, the magma movement inside active volcanoes and the very wide
areas of deformation associated with plate tectonic motion."
Here is what EarthScope searches find:
gps = 444 hits
gps + error = 20 hits
gps + relativity = 0 hits
Note that the General Relativity Parrots and Cultists
use articles written by people who sponge off of the taxpayers
by pretending that they are privy to powerful, esoteric knowledge.
And of course,
some phonies, and people with low self-esteem,
try to impress gullible people by pretending that they also,
are privy to powerful, esoteric knowledge.
And perhaps, there are a few people,
who hang on to General Relativity
because it is their only hope for immortality and infinite power.
And there are those who promote General Relativity
in order to make their gene pool and religion
look superior to other gene pools and religions.
I dare say that if one had enough media presence,
they could make Seventh Day Adventists and Dravidians look good.
The folks that make the GPS system work,
and the folks who use the GPS system to the finest level,
would not waste their time, money and minds on General Relativity.
Tom Potter
> On Apr 28, 6:26 am,Tom Potter<tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>
>
> > With a record like this,
> > it is not surprising that the GTR Cult is
> > desparate to make the false claim
> > that GTR was essential to the GPS system.
>
> Why do you continue to lie, Tom?
>
> > A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
> > (And the taxpayers money spent on billion dollar projects
> > trying to rational General Relativity, like Gravity Probe B ain't
> > hay.)
>
> > --
> >Tom Potter
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
The enormous investments in time, money, and minds in General
Relativity,
are simply efforts to rational General Relativity
by finding nominal variations from Classical Physics models that work
very well,
and have been used for over a hundred years to shape man's
environment.
The nominal variations of General Relativity from Classical Physics
are on the order of thermal noise in the microscopic range,
and model deviations from Classical Physical
beyond man's capacity to experience in time and space
at the macroscopic end.
It does not take a System Engineer
to comprehend that speculating about man's capacity
to experience in time and space
is more religion that science,
and using a model to model things obscured by thermal noise,
Brownian Movement, and limited by the Uncertainty Principle is
stupid,
as these effects cannot be modeled with General Relativity,
as Schrödinger demonstrates in his book "What is life?",
the book that spurred the search for the DNA code.
I suggest that folks like Eric Gisse
who are wavering about joining the General Relativity Cult
should think about the implications of
wasting time, money and minds, on modeling things
beyond man's capacity to experience in time and space,
and should think about how useful General Relativity is
when it encounters thermal noise, Brownian Movement,
and Uncertainty Principle.
Religion and Charlatans deal with things
beyond man's capacity to experience.
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
Sam Wormley
>
> As General Relativity cannot demonstrate that it is viable and useful,
> about all GTR Cultists can do is make the false claim that it is/was
> essential to the GPS system.
>
It really sticks in your craw, eh Potter, that a scientific theory,
Sam Wormley
>
> ... think about how useful General Relativity is
> when it encounters thermal noise, Brownian Movement,
> and Uncertainty Principle.
>
Major misconception, Potter--It's the quantum mechanics that
deals with Brownian motion and the atomic world, not GTR.
Eric Gisse
> On Apr 28, 7:38 pm, Eric Gisse <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 6:26 am,Tom Potter<tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > [...]
>
> > > With a record like this,
> > > it is not surprising that the GTR Cult is
> > > desparate to make the false claim
> > > that GTR was essential to the GPS system.
>
> > Why do you continue to lie, Tom?
>
> > > A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
> > > (And the taxpayers money spent on billion dollar projects
> > > trying to rational General Relativity, like Gravity Probe B ain't
> > > hay.)
>
> > > --
> > >Tom Potter
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The enormous investments in time, money, and minds in General
> Relativity,
> are simply efforts to rational General Relativity
> by finding nominal variations from Classical Physics models that work
> very well,
> and have been used for over a hundred years to shape man's
> environment.
It looks like you know the difference, it just doesnt appear that you
care.
Look Tom, as I have explained to you before, without taking into
account relativity the GPS satellites would be off around 38,000
nanoseconds a day. That is on the order of a kilometer/day screwup - a
very bad thing in a precision navigation system.
>
> The nominal variations of General Relativity from Classical Physics
> are on the order of thermal noise in the microscopic range,
No, they aren't.
38,000 nanoseconds/day is quite big. Especially when you actually have
nanosecond resolution.
>
> and model deviations from Classical Physical
> beyond man's capacity to experience in time and space
> at the macroscopic end.
Just because man doesn't notice does not mean man's tools do not
notice.
>
> It does not take a System Engineer
> to comprehend that speculating about man's capacity
> to experience in time and space
> is more religion that science,
You aren't a systems engineer. You are a retired salesman.
>
> and using a model to model things obscured by thermal noise,
> Brownian Movement, and limited by the Uncertainty Principle is
> stupid,
HELLO TOM, 38,000 NANOSECONDS A DAY IN A SYSTEM THAT IS ACCURATE IN
THE NANOSECOND REGIME.
>
> as these effects cannot be modeled with General Relativity,
> as Schrödinger demonstrates in his book "What is life?",
> the book that spurred the search for the DNA code.
Of course they can't be modeled by GR - GR isn't a theory of either
the quantum or the microscopic.
>
> I suggest that folks like Eric Gisse
> who are wavering about joining the General Relativity Cult
> should think about the implications of
> wasting time, money and minds, on modeling things
> beyond man's capacity to experience in time and space,
Just because _you_ do not see the validity of the research and
development of a decent theory of gravitation does not mean others
share your incredibly ignorant point of view.
>
> and should think about how useful General Relativity is
> when it encounters thermal noise, Brownian Movement,
> and Uncertainty Principle.
It isn't. That's why effects that are _larger_ than thermal noise and
quantum effects are the ones taken into consideration in production
systems.
>
> Religion and Charlatans deal with things
> beyond man's capacity to experience.
How about quantum mechanics, Tom? QM is far removed from man's
capability to experience.
When was the last time you diffracted through a doorway? Or tunneled
through because you forgot to open the door? Do you often find your
body forming standing waves in a closed room? Do you often find your
movements restricted to multiples of hbar?
>
> --
> Tom Potter
>
Y.Porat
>
> [...]
>
>
>
> > With a record like this,
> > it is not surprising that the GTR Cult is
> > desparate to make the false claim
> > that GTR was essential to the GPS system.
>
> Why do you continue to lie, Tom?
>
>
>
>
>
> > A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
> > (And the taxpayers money spent on billion dollar projects
> > trying to rational General Relativity, like Gravity Probe B ain't
> > hay.)
>
> > --
> > Tom Potter
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
----------------
why do you continue to lie Gisse ??
actually the answer is obvious
you are a born lier (!!!
Y.P
--------------------------
Tom Potter
I am pleased to see that Sam Wormley
admits that General Relativity is USELESS
at the microscopic level,
and that it becomes a religion
rather than a useful model of reality,
at the macroscopic end,
as it pretends to model the
beginning and the end of time,
time travel, space warps, worm holes,
and other things beyond man's capacity to experience.
I am surprised to see that Sam,
who was a stress analysis grunt,
did not know that General Relativity
was Einstein's attempt to use the newly
developed maths and methods of stress analysis
to model the universe.
No doubt the maths and methods
of stress analysis are useful for modeling inorganic bodies,
but using tensors to model the stresses and strains
in a body occupied by living things,
and beings who can use Newton's and Maxwell's models
to change the environment withing the body
is doomed to failure.
Can you imagine doing a bulk stress analysis computation
on a growing thing who's growth
is modulated by its' environment?
If Sam or any of the General Relativity Cult can do that,
I'd sure like to see it.
In fact, I'd sure like to see the General Relativity Promoters
get off the tax payers dole, and design some useful things
like time travel machines, worm holes that Federal Express can use
to ship packages through, or some black holes
to store radioactive waste in, or an open loop GPS system
that is bullet proof, and doesn't require feedback.
Tom Potter
> On Apr 28, 7:14 pm,Tom Potter<tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 7:38 pm, Eric Gisse <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 28, 6:26 am,Tom Potter<tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > [...]
>
> > > > With a record like this,
> > > > it is not surprising that the GTR Cult is
> > > > desparate to make the false claim
> > > > that GTR was essential to the GPS system.
>
> > > Why do you continue to lie, Tom?
>
> > > > A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
> > > > (And the taxpayers money spent on billion dollar projects
> > > > trying to rational General Relativity, like Gravity Probe B ain't
> > > > hay.)
>
> > > > --
> > > >Tom Potter
>
I am pleased to see that Gisse,
like Sam Wormley,
has finally admitted that General Relativity is USELESS
at the microscopic level,
and is a religion at the macroscopic level,
where it pretends to model things beyond
man's capacity toe EVER experience in tiome and space.
One has to wonder why enormous amounts of time, money and minds
are wasted on trying to rationalize General Relativity,
when models like Newton's, Maxwell's,
and the DNA models are far, far more useful.
I noticed in the news in the last few days,
that the DNA model was recently used to develop
a new form of rice that will prevent 500,000 children
from going blind EVERY YEAR,
and that was used to convert blood types,
and that people with rare blood types will have a safe
supply of blood in the future,
and that it was used to link dinosaur DNA to chicken DNA,
and was used to prove several thousand accused rapists,
,including an athlete team, were innocent,
and was used to determine that some sleazy lawyer
was not the father of Anna Nicole Smith's baby.
Who knows, that DNA test might keep
that baby from being murdered for money,
as its' mother and uncle might have been?
Can you imagine how much better the world would be if
some of the billions of dollars, wasted trying to rationalize
General Relativity, were spent on DNA projects?
Can you imagine why Einstein was Time Magazine's
"Man of the Century" and Time Magazine uses little ink
to glorify the guys who spurred the search for DNA,
and they guys who figured it out?
Were the people who controlled Time Magazine
conned like the masses,
or did they con the masses?
If they were conned, they aren't too bright.
If they conned the mass, they are immoral.
No doubt intelligent, honest folks need to
control the mass media,
and perhaps an open, free Internet
is a step in that direction.
Time Magazine, the New York Times, and
the Washington Post have a long record
of instigating conflict and war for profit,
and distorting contributions to society.
Let's hope that some greedy, immoral gang does not
end up controlling the free flow of information on the Internet.
So far the Yahoo and Google boys are doing just fine.
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
Sam Wormley
Potter, you should read up on QED and QFT!
Sam Wormley
>
> Can you imagine why Einstein was Time Magazine's "Man of the Century" and
> Time Magazine uses little ink...
In little more than eight months in 1905 Einstein completed five
papers that would change the world for ever. Spanning three quite
distinct topics - relativity, the photoelectric effect and Brownian
motion - Einstein overturned our view of space and time, showed that
it is insufficient to describe light purely as a wave, and laid the
foundations for the discovery of atoms.
But, Potter, should not forget that 1905 was just the beginning of
Einstein's legacy. His crowning achievement - the general theory of
relativity - was still to come. And applying GTR to GPS really
sticks in your craw, eh Potter, a $30B+ industry, creating a global
infrastructure benefiting people all over the world.
Bluster, Potter, bluster some more!
Jeff…Relf
simply because:
1. You can't visualize spatial time, 4-D space.
2. You reject Lambda-CDM's " creation myth ".
You'd do better focusing on those two topics, I think,
instead of worrying about the peanut gallery.
All models ( e.g. maps ) are _ Fabricated _ with intent.
Every " law " of physics is a fabrication, a tool.
But, Tom, there is an intrinsic reality,
independent of the observer's intent, to wit:
Physical processes determine absolutely everything, so:
1. The future is just as fixed as the past.
2. Time is a spatial dimension ( i.e. falsely directional ).
3. We are 4-D rocks, static and immutable.
But 4-D is impossible to imagine, a 2-D simplification won't do.
All the same, gravity is modeled that way; in G.R., time is spatial.
All changes ( including choices ) are merely notional, not real.
Likewise, entropy is merely notional. PseudoEntropy is our PseudoGod.
As God, PseudoEntropy creates, " uses " and then destroys us.
Tom Potter
> On Apr 28, 7:14 pm, Tom Potter <tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 7:38 pm, Eric Gisse <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 28, 6:26 am,Tom Potter<tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > [...]
>
> > > > With a record like this,
> > > > it is not surprising that the GTR Cult is
> > > > desparate to make the false claim
> > > > that GTR was essential to the GPS system.
>
> > > Why do you continue to lie, Tom?
>
> > > > A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
> > > > (And the taxpayers money spent on billion dollar projects
> > > > trying to rational General Relativity, like Gravity Probe B ain't
> > > > hay.)
>
> > > > --
> > > >Tom Potter
>
It is interesting to see that Gisse is trying to create a strawman
when he posts:
"HELLO TOM, 38,000 NANOSECONDS A DAY IN A SYSTEM THAT IS ACCURATE IN
THE NANOSECOND REGIME."
I must again point out that the 38 daily microsecond
effect that acceleration has on the GPS clocks
can be computed using Classical Physics,
and the fact of the matter is, that this effect
does not even have to be computed
to design a GPS system.
England sent ships all over the world
and Newton used the data from
oscillating pendulums to compute the
effects of acceleration on the pendulum periods,
and he computed all kinds of things about the Earth,
including its' shape and the tides.
No doubt, big numbers are involved
when General Relativity OVERLAPS Classical Physics,
but in the region where the General Relativity Cult CLAIMS
that it is superior to Classical Physics,
you are down in the region where it takes million dollar experiments,
and a number of Classical Physics hacks
to come up with residuals that the Cult can rationalize
as being due to the difference between GTR and Classical Physics.
Here is a challenge for Gisse.
Take some of those **big** General Relativity effects,
and design a real world system,
that cannot be designed using Classical Physics,
that you can sell in the free market,
rather than bill the taxpayers millions of dollars to operate the
system.
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
Tom Potter
"Jeff...Relf" <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_20...@Cotse.NET...
> Personally, Tom, I think you've rejected General Relativity
> simply because:
>
> 1. You can't visualize spatial time, 4-D space.
> 2. You reject Lambda-CDM's " creation myth ".
>
> You'd do better focusing on those two topics, I think,
> instead of worrying about the peanut gallery.
>
> All models ( e.g. maps ) are _ Fabricated _ with intent.
> Every " law " of physics is a fabrication, a tool.
>
> But, Tom, there is an intrinsic reality,
> independent of the observer's intent, to wit:
>
> Physical processes determine absolutely everything, so:
> 1. The future is just as fixed as the past.
> 2. Time is a spatial dimension ( i.e. falsely directional ).
> 3. We are 4-D rocks, static and immutable.
>
> But 4-D is impossible to imagine, a 2-D simplification won't do.
I bet Jeff Relf will be surprised to know,
that Alicia Boole Stott, one of George Boole's daughter's,
could visualize whole sequences of four dimensions polytopes,
and she could describe them to mathematicans,
although she had no training in math.
So how does Jeff know that
"<I> can't visualize spatial time, 4-D space"?
Visualizing 3D space plus time,
(Relativity's and Jeff's 4D space,.)
is a piece of cake.
It's that 4D and 5D space that's hard to visualize.
Jeff is right when he states:
"All models ( e.g. maps ) are _ Fabricated _ with intent."
Of course the "intent" of General Relativity
is NOT to make the design, engineering, fabrication, maintenance,
and operation of useful systems efficient and cost-effective.
Its' intent is more religious and racial in nature.
General Relativity doesn't pay,
it costs the user
in time, moeny, resources, and brain power.
"Brain power is a terrible thing to waste."
Eric Gisse
[...]
>
> I must again point out that the 38 daily microsecond
> effect that acceleration has on the GPS clocks
> can be computed using Classical Physics,
> and the fact of the matter is, that this effect
> does not even have to be computed
> to design a GPS system.
No, it can't.
t' = t in classical mechanics. There is no time dilation. There would
be a transverse doppler shift, but no radial doppler shift since the
satellites are a fixed distance from the Earth. Even if you were to
get doppler shift to play nice with the static gravitational effect,
you would have a kinematic effect that is unaccounted for.
>
> England sent ships all over the world
> and Newton used the data from
> oscillating pendulums to compute the
> effects of acceleration on the pendulum periods,
> and he computed all kinds of things about the Earth,
> including its' shape and the tides.
>
> No doubt, big numbers are involved
> when General Relativity OVERLAPS Classical Physics,
> but in the region where the General Relativity Cult CLAIMS
> that it is superior to Classical Physics,
> you are down in the region where it takes million dollar experiments,
> and a number of Classical Physics hacks
> to come up with residuals that the Cult can rationalize
> as being due to the difference between GTR and Classical Physics.
Ahhh, the subtly changing argument. First it was "13 hacks of general
relativity", now it is "a number of classical physics hacks".
Yes Tom, the differences are small. Exceedingly small. That's why
Newtonian gravitation is still used for just about everything - GR
reduces to it in the weak field limit, and it is much easier to use.
It sounds like you don't like GR because verifying it costs a lot of
money. I would like to introduce you to particle physics, which
doesn't hold a candle to gravitation or cosmology as far as burning
money goes. The results, however, are equally valid and important.
>
> Here is a challenge for Gisse.
> Take some of those **big** General Relativity effects,
> and design a real world system,
> that cannot be designed using Classical Physics,
> that you can sell in the free market,
> rather than bill the taxpayers millions of dollars to operate the
> system.
The only commercial product that I know of which requires that kind of
precision is GPS, which is a government built and operated system.
Your obsession with cost to taxpayers is especially curious, Tom.
Valid science which produces actual results worth studying gets on
your shit list, but things like the Iraq war or head start which
_actually waste_ a hundred times the physical science's combined
budget in the united states get a free pass. Why is that, Tom?
Is it just easier to complain about GR?
Have you actually written any letters to your senators or
representatives? Or NASA? ESA? JAXA? Have you actually done _anything_
towards your end of removing all funding for the physical sciences, or
do you just bitch on USENET?
>
> --
> Tom Potter
>
Eric Gisse
> Tom Potter wrote:
>
> > Can you imagine why Einstein was Time Magazine's "Man of the Century" and
> > Time Magazine uses little ink...
>
> In little more than eight months in 1905 Einstein completed five
> papers that would change the world for ever. Spanning three quite
> distinct topics - relativity, the photoelectric effect and Brownian
> motion - Einstein overturned our view of space and time, showed that
> it is insufficient to describe light purely as a wave, and laid the
> foundations for the discovery of atoms.
I don't think he cares, Sam.
Tom's style, no doubt carefully crafted over the years as his time as
a salesman, allows him to respond to one particular point that he
knows he can argue about while ignoring the rest. I pointed out that
QM is just as removed from his daily experience as GR is, and he
ignored that and ranted again about GR.
You really can tell he was a salesman. He ignores everything he cannot
deal with, and masterfully frames the debate so it benefits him
maximally.
>
> But, Potter, should not forget that 1905 was just the beginning of
> Einstein's legacy. His crowning achievement - the general theory of
> relativity - was still to come. And applying GTR to GPS really
> sticks in your craw, eh Potter, a $30B+ industry, creating a global
> infrastructure benefiting people all over the world.
He sees that. That is why he now talks about welfare or whatever as if
GPS isn't a functional system along with the usual lies that classical
mechanics can predict the requisite offset.
>
> Bluster, Potter, bluster some more!
You know it. His retirement is boring, lonely [do his kids/grandkids
visit?] and empty, so he will lead the charge on removing all funding
for physical sciences in the United States. First he will remove all
funding for gravitational research - hey classical mechanics works
fine for human experiences, why look closer? Then when he accomplishes
that task, he will take on particle physics and everything else
quantum based for the same reason.
It is majorly hypocritical since he spent his entire life selling
equipment to scientists.
This is why [not because of Potter of course, but the mentality] the
United States is being unseated in the sciences. The MBAs, lawyers,
and salesmen who are in charge do not see the importance of basic
research. It doesn't provide a tangible product, so why fund it?
Tom Potter
As can be see from the foregoing,
Gisse let it all hang out,
and he displayed all of his knowledge of science
in his rebuttal to my posts.
It is interesting to see that Gisse
tries to create a strawman by asserting that I am anti-science,
when the fact of the matter is that I am very pro PRODUCTIVE science,
rather than science motivated by race and religion,
and cult creation.
As can be seem from my posts,
I think that the government should invest in science
that gets results that benefit mankind,
and that rather than giving political con-men money for
so-called science projects that the government should
set up a program to grant large cash rewards to the
people and organizations that solve certain problems.
1. Decide what problems need to be solved.
2. Establish a reasonable reward to be awarded to
the person who solves the problem.
3. Periodically review the process, add new challenges,
and increase or decrease the offered rewards as
determined by present conditions, (State of the art,
increase or decrease in the value of the solution, etc.)
Now I'll tell you what is anti-science.
Anti-science is the worship of a model or a person,
or attachment to dogma and convention wisdom,
and the intrusion of race, religion and nationality into science.
You can tell who the anti-science people are,
as they attack messengers, rather than address ideas.
Jeff…Relf
from " God is Entropy " to the lambda-CDM model... nothing less.
How do you explain it, Tom_Potter ? Did Jesus create it ?
Tom Potter
Jeff Relf makes a good point!
General Relativity is more of a religion,
than a viable, cost-effect way
to model things that are of benefit to mankind.
General Relativity is like the Bible and Astrology,
as it appeals to people who fantasize
about things beyond man's capacity to
experience in time and space.
As Jeff suggests, Einstein, like Moses, Jesus, Freud, and Marx
were the Johnny Appleseed's of costly and destructive weeds.
It is informative to compare General Relativity to other models.
After Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.
After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.
After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind, etc.
I noticed in the news in the last few days,
that the DNA model was recently used to:
1. Develop:a new form of rice that will prevent 500,000 children
from going blind EVERY YEAR,.
2.To develop a way to convert blood types,
so that people with rare blood types will have a safe
supply of blood in the future.
3. Prove about ten thousand people innocent of crimes
they had been accused of.
4. Perhaps saved Anna Nicole Smith's baby from
becoming shark bait.
And I noticed that another one billion dollars was wasted
on the Gravity Probe B project,
which was one, in a long string of costly efforts,
to rationalize General Relativity,
and that even after they made their usual
Classical Physics of the data to account for
various effects like windage, light pressure, metal creep, etc.
that the results needed a few more hacks before it fit General
Relativity.
A billion dollars is a terrible thing to waste.
Eric Gisse
> and he displayed all of his knowledge of science
> in his rebuttal to my posts.
>
> It is interesting to see thatGisse
> tries to create a strawman by asserting that I am anti-science,
> when the fact of the matter is that I am very pro PRODUCTIVE science,
> rather than science motivated by race and religion,
> and cult creation.
Who are *YOU* to decide what is and what is not productive science?
Your entire motivation is whether or not something sells.
It is not a strawman to say you are anti-science - you want to cut
funding to studying gravity because Newtonian gravity is "good
enough".
>
> As can be seem from my posts,
> I think that the government should invest in science
> that gets results that benefit mankind,
No, you think that the government should only invest in things that a
salesman thinks will give immediate results. Basic science that
doesn't have immediate applications gets left in the gutter.
>
> and that rather than giving political con-men money for
> so-called science projects that the government should
> set up a program to grant large cash rewards to the
> people and organizations that solve certain problems.
I REPEAT - WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO DECIDE THESE THINGS, IGNORANT
LITTLE SALESMAN?
>
> 1. Decide what problems need to be solved.
> 2. Establish a reasonable reward to be awarded to
> the person who solves the problem.
> 3. Periodically review the process, add new challenges,
> and increase or decrease the offered rewards as
> determined by present conditions, (State of the art,
> increase or decrease in the value of the solution, etc.)
...and basic research never gets done because there is not a specific
problem to be solved. GR qualifies for this though - there are lots of
_specific problems_ that need to be solved. Of course you don't
understand or even accept this because you are a salesman rather than
a scientist.
>
> Now I'll tell you what is anti-science.
> Anti-science is the worship of a model or a person,
> or attachment to dogma and convention wisdom,
> and the intrusion of race, religion and nationality into science.
Go beat upon another strawman - this is not happening.
>
> You can tell who the anti-science people are,
> as they attack messengers, rather than address ideas.
Which is exactly what you are doing.
You are calling scientists con-men and claim they are on welfare
because they seek to study something whose value is not immediately
determinable. You don't evaluate the merit of the ideas - you just do
a quick scan to see if you can find something to sell. You are the
product of your experiences, and obviously none of those include any
non-salesman components.
>
> --
> Tom Potter
>
Eric Gisse
[snip stupidity]
Shut the fuck up, Tom.
I'm increasingly seeing no point in explaining your misconceptions -
telling you to shut the fuck up is much more rational.
Sam Wormley
>
> General Relativity is like the Bible and Astrology, as it appeals to people
> who fantasize about things beyond man's capacity to experience in time and space.
>
In little more than eight months in 1905 Einstein completed five
papers that would change the world for ever. Spanning three quite
distinct topics - relativity, the photoelectric effect and Brownian
motion - Einstein overturned our view of space and time, showed that
it is insufficient to describe light purely as a wave, and laid the
foundations for the discovery of atoms.
But, Potter, should not forget that 1905 was just the beginning of
Einstein's legacy. His crowning achievement - the general theory of
relativity - was still to come. And applying GTR to GPS really
sticks in your craw, eh Potter, a $30B+ industry, creating a global
infrastructure benefiting people all over the world.
Bluster, Potter, bluster some more!
Androcles
"Tom Potter" <tdp...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1177984528.6...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On May 1, 4:12 am, Jeff...Relf <Jeff_R...@Yahoo.COM> wrote:
>> The " intent " of General Relativity is to explain the cosmos,
>> from " God is Entropy " to the lambda-CDM model... nothing less.
>> How do you explain it, Tom_Potter ? Did Jesus create it ?
>
> Jeff Relf makes a good point!
No he doesn't. The attempt by the ancients to explain all matter is
made of earth, air, fire and water was quite good. How does Relf
explain mass? Did Jesus create fire?
Jeff Relf makes a fucking stupid ignorant pointless remark.
T Wake
"Tom Potter" <tdp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1177984528.6...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
KookFite!
Phineas T Puddleduck
"T Wake" <usenet...@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
>
>
> KookFite!
Tom is campaigning for his kook award
--
Sacred keeper of the Hollow Sphere, and the space within the Coffee Boy
singularity.
COOSN-174-07-82116: alt.astronomy's favourite poster (from a survey taken
of the saucerhead high command).
T Wake
"Phineas T Puddleduck" <phineasp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:phineaspuddleduck-B...@news.octanews.com...
> In article <aP-dnSc7TboqP6rb...@pipex.net>,
> "T Wake" <usenet...@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> KookFite!
>
>
> Tom is campaigning for his kook award
>
LOL
Tom Potter
"Phineas T Puddleduck" <phineasp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:phineaspuddleduck-B...@news.octanews.com...
> "T Wake" <usenet...@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
>
>> KookFite!
>
> Tom is campaigning for his kook award
Although T Wake and Puddleduck are considered to be
two of the most immature, sociopathic, and neurotic posters
on the Internet,
I am pleased to see that they continue to be faithful readers of my
posts,
and are interested in exposing my views to a wider audience.
Considering that I am unable to find members of the General Relativity
Cult
competent to engage in a rational, intelligent, civilized debate
about the value of General Relativity,
I need to find people brave and foolish enough,
to engage in a rational dichotomy on the "Weirdest Science" of all,
-- General Relativity!
No doubt General Relativity is the model of choice
if one wants to build a time travel machine,
or to create a worm hole and warp though light years of space,
or to drag space around, or look for gravitons,
or fantasize about the birth and death of the universe,
but if one prefers useful, cost-effective results to "Weird
Science",
I suggest that there are better models that General Relativity.
For example,
After Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.
After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.
After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind, etc.
I noticed in the news in the last few days,
that the DNA model was recently used to develop
a new form of rice that will prevent 500,000 children
from going blind EVERY YEAR,
and was used to convert blood types,
and that people with rare blood types will have a safe
supply of blood in the future,
and was used to prove 10,000 accused rapists were innocent,
and was used to determine that chickens are closely related to
dinosaurs,
and to possibly save Anna Nicole Smith's baby from becoming shark
bait.
As can be seen Newton's, Maxwell's and the DNA model
are being used daily **in the free market** in "fruitful" ways,
while as can be seen from the recent Gravity Probe B reports,
General Relativity continues to waste billions of dollars
on experiments designed to rationalize it,
using numerous Classical Physics hacks to compensate for
electric and magnetic effects, friction, windage,
metal creep, pressure, the atmosphere, nearby masses, etc.
With a record like this,
it is not surprising that the General Relativity Cult is
desperate to make the false claim
that GTR was essential to the GPS system.
I suggest that General Relativity is "Weird Science"
that generates more heat than light,
and wastes time, money and minds
on such pursuits beyond man's capacity to experience in time and
space.
(The birth and death of the universe, etc.)
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste. "
And as can be seen by the posts of T Wake and Puddelduck,
and other members of the General Relativity Cult,
"A wasted mind is a terrible thing."
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
Tom Potter
Although T Wake and Puddleduck are considered to be
two of the most immature, sociopathic, and neurotic posters
on the Internet,
I am pleased to see that they continue to be faithful readers of my
posts,
and are interested in exposing my views to a wider audience.
Considering that I am unable to find members of the General Relativity
Cult
competent to engage in a rational, intelligent, civilized debate
about the value of General Relativity,
I need to find people brave and foolish enough,
to engage in a rational dichotomy on the "Weirdest Science" of all,
-- General Relativity!
No doubt General Relativity is the model of choice
if one wants to build a time travel machine,
or to create a worm hole and warp though light years of space,
or to drag space around, or look for gravitons,
or fantasize about the birth and death of the universe,
but if one prefers useful, cost-effective results to "Weird
Science",
I suggest that there are better models that General Relativity.
For example,
After Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.
After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.
After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind, etc.
I noticed in the news in the last few days,
that the DNA model was recently used to develop
a new form of rice that will prevent 500,000 children
from going blind EVERY YEAR,
and was used to convert blood types,
and that people with rare blood types will have a safe
supply of blood in the future,
and was used to prove 10,000 accused rapists were innocent,
and was used to determine that chickens are closely related to
dinosaurs,
and to possibly save Anna Nicole Smith's baby from becoming shark
bait.
As can be seen Newton's, Maxwell's and the DNA model
are being used daily **in the free market** in "fruitful" ways,
while as can be seen from the recent Gravity Probe B reports,
General Relativity continues to waste billions of dollars
on experiments designed to rationalize it,
using numerous Classical Physics hacks to compensate for
electric and magnetic effects, friction, windage,
metal creep, pressure, the atmosphere, nearby masses, etc.
With a record like this,
it is not surprising that the General Relativity Cult is
desperate to make the false claim
that GTR was essential to the GPS system.
I suggest that General Relativity is "Weird Science"
that generates more heat than light,
and wastes time, money and minds
on such pursuits beyond man's capacity to experience in time and
space.
(The birth and death of the universe, etc.)
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste. "
And as can be seen by the posts of T Wake and Puddelduck,
and other members of the General Relativity Cult,
"A wasted mind is a terrible thing."
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
Tom Potter
"Eric Gisse" <jow...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
1177985597.6...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 30, 5:55 pm, Tom Potter <tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [snip stupidity]
>
> Shut the fuck up, Tom.
Gisse's concept of "rational" thinking,
is more like that of the three monkeys.
"See no evaluation of General Relativity."
"Hear no evaluation of General Relativity."
"Speak no evaluation of General Relativity."
It appears that
Gisse fantasizes that he is the "infallible" Pope of the General
Relativity Cult,
and can silence heretics with Papal edicts.
It is sad that an Alaskan boy <?>,
who claims to be a high school graduate,
has lost it so completely.
Perhaps Gisse has "cabin fever",
from lack of contact with the opposite sex.
(Whatever the "opposite sex" of Gisse is.)
Maybe tj frazir can give Gisse
one of those boards with a knot hole in it.
Eric Gisse
Y.Porat
>
> > Shut the fuck up, more like that of the three monkeys.
>
> "See no evaluation of General Relativity."
> "Hear no evaluation of General Relativity."
> "Speak no evaluation of General Relativity."
>
> It appears that
> Gisse fantasizes that he is the "infallible" Pope of the General
> Relativity Cult,
> and can silence heretics with Papal edicts.
>
> It is sad that an Alaskan boy <?>,
> who claims to be a high school graduate,
> has lost it so completely.
>
> Perhaps Gisse has "cabin fever",
> from lack of contact with the opposite sex.
> (Whatever the "opposite sex" of Gisse is.)
>
> Maybe tj frazir can give Gisse
> one of those boards with a knot hole in it.
>
> --
> Tom Potter
>
--------------------
Tom
why is i that **you ** have to explain the cosmos??!!
let all those little fuckers parrots explain the consmous!!
th eonly thing we have to do is
explaine that GR is nonsense physics (unlike SR)
th esuckers and the crooks tryied to say a long time
that GPS is GR dependant!!
we believed them for too long
yet now while we made even a short study of it
we shoed them that it is jsut another bluff!!
GPS is a much more complicated bissiness
while it must amke nonstop corrections
that are ways more massive inmagnitude
than the alleged GR
iow
all the other corrections **put in darkness - not in shade**
the allged influence of GR
i just a few days ago brought the concrete example::
supose that yesterday there was a big earth quake
in the pacific magintude 8 in an island therer
and island there nealy crumbled and raise up
by 50 cm
at the same tine th etemperature there raise 20 degrees
and at the same tinme there is a sun EM busrt
that if flouding our globe
affaectionsthe electronic devices
they time delay etc etc
now the gPS system has to compute the new
coodinates of that isald
and make corectiosn to the day before all those events
now
what will be bigger
a
the GR influence
or b
the influence of all those changes that i mensioned above
or all the acumulatiove corrections needed because of
thos events
now Potter
just a frendly advice
dont discuss with GIsse!!
he is a psychopath !!
just ignore him
or else jsut tell him he is a 22 years psycho path
ATB
Y.Poat
---------------------------------
---------------
Y.Porat
>
> while as can be seen from the recent Gravity Probe B reports,
> General Relativity continues to waste billions of dollars
> on experiments designed to rationalize it,
> using numerous Classical Physics hacks to compensate for
> electric and magnetic effects, friction, windage,
> metal creep, pressure, the atmosphere, nearby masses, etc.
>
> With a record like this,
> it is not surprising that the General Relativity Cult is
> desperate to make the false claim
> that GTR was essential to the GPS system.
>
> I suggest that General Relativity is "Weird Science"
> that generates more heat than light,
> and wastes time, money and minds
> on such pursuits beyond man's capacity to experience in time and
> space.
> (The birth and death of the universe, etc.)
>
> "A mind is a terrible thing to waste. "
>
> And as can be seen by the posts of T Wake and Puddelduck,
> and other members of the General Relativity Cult,
>
> "A wasted mind is a terrible thing."
>
> --
> Tom Potter
>
------------------------
Tom
you ar enot alone with your rejection of GR
it si not curved sapce
it is actually as is now
an trial and error system to adust measuremnts of physical; data
tosome basic formulas and equations
if it works it has nothing to do with curved sapce time
it has to do with some mass properties
and thats all
ATB
Y.Porat
-----------------
Jeff…Relf
Y_Porat, Tom_Potter and Dr. Tao ( T.J. ) have loads of money.
It's the rich that think they're poor.
It's always the fat man that thinks he's skinny.
I see them forever scrambling, trying to " survive ".
No time to pause and gaze up at the Milky Way,
to ponder the cosmos, God and where they fit into the scheme of things.
Net, the cosmos is forever and everywhere dissipating,
getting cooler and less dense. It's spontaneous and irrevocable.
Entropy is cosmic in scope.
Like " God Almighty ", entropy created you, me, us
for " his purposes ", then destroys us.
Imagine a 3-D movie that doesn't move, laid out before you.
Imagine a series of statues depicting a horse in trot.
That's spatial time, 4-D space... but it's continuous, not discrete,
because physical processes determine absolutely everything.
All changes, all choices, are merely notional.
Time is only falsely directional,
because randomness is never an intrinsic reality.
PseuoEntropy is our PseudoGod... We're 4-D rocks, unimaginable.
From Einstein's, " Ether and the Theory of Relativity " ( 1920 )
quoted at " http://TUHH.DE/rzt/rzt/it/Ether.html ":
" But this ether may not be thought of as
endowed with the quality characteristic of ponderable media,
as consisting of parts which may be tracked through time.
The idea of motion may not be applied to it. ".
PD
> "Eric Gisse" <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
>
> 1177985597.640719.225...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Apr 30, 5:55 pm, Tom Potter <tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > [snip stupidity]
>
> > Shut the fuck up, Tom.
>
> Gisse's concept of "rational" thinking,
> is more like that of the three monkeys.
>
> "See no evaluation of General Relativity."
> "Hear no evaluation of General Relativity."
> "Speak no evaluation of General Relativity."
What "evaluation" did you have in mind, Tom? What's your criterion for
science that passes your muster? That it has measurable economic
impact on everyday life within, what, 5 years? 7 years? And what's
your criterion for sufficient impact? And what's your vehicle for
measurement?
PD
Eric Gisse
[....]
I have noticed that you have brought up lots of qualitative examples
but you haven't, even once, shown the magnitude of their effects
compared to GR.
Eric Gisse
> are being used daily **in the free market** in "fruitful" ways,
>
>
>
>
>
> > while as can be seen from the recent Gravity Probe B reports,
> > General Relativity continues to waste billions of dollars
> > on experiments designed to rationalize it,
> > using numerous Classical Physics hacks to compensate for
> > electric and magnetic effects, friction, windage,
> > metal creep, pressure, the atmosphere, nearby masses, etc.
>
> > With a record like this,
> > it is not surprising that the General Relativity Cult is
> > desperate to make the false claim
> > that GTR was essential to the GPS system.
>
> > I suggest that General Relativity is "Weird Science"
> > that generates more heat than light,
> > and wastes time, money and minds
> > on such pursuits beyond man's capacity to experience in time and
> > space.
> > (The birth and death of the universe, etc.)
>
> > "A mind is a terrible thing to waste. "
>
> > And as can be seen by the posts of T Wake and Puddelduck,
> > and other members of the General Relativity Cult,
>
> > "A wasted mind is a terrible thing."
>
> > --
> > Tom Potter
>
>
> ------------------------
> Tom
> you ar enot alone with your rejection of GR
> it si not curved sapce
>
> it is actually as is now
> an trial and error system to adust measuremnts of physical; data
> tosome basic formulas and equations
> if it works it has nothing to do with curved sapce time
What makes you think it is trial and error?
Hell, what makes you think you know _anything_ about general
relativity?
T Wake
>
> "Phineas T Puddleduck" <phineasp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:phineaspuddleduck-B...@news.octanews.com...
>> In article <aP-dnSc7TboqP6rb...@pipex.net>,
>> "T Wake" <usenet...@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> KookFite!
>>
>> Tom is campaigning for his kook award
>
> Although T Wake and Puddleduck are considered to be
> two of the most immature, sociopathic, and neurotic posters
> on the Internet,
Why thank you. I am flattered.
<snip the rest of your campaign speech>
T Wake
"Y.Porat" <y.y....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178100064.6...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Tom
> you ar enot alone with your rejection of GR
Very true. Lots of lunatics reject it as well.
T Wake
>
> "Phineas T Puddleduck" <phineasp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:phineaspuddleduck-B...@news.octanews.com...
>> In article <aP-dnSc7TboqP6rb...@pipex.net>,
>> "T Wake" <usenet...@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> KookFite!
>>
>> Tom is campaigning for his kook award
>
> Although T Wake and Puddleduck are considered to be
> two of the most immature, sociopathic, and neurotic posters
> on the Internet,
Thanks, again. It is nice you felt the need to say it twice.
<snip campaign speech, unread>
Y.Porat
--------------
since you asked something tha looks (i hope at least looks )
a sa legitimate civilised question
i will try to answer
though
i alreadt made a disclaimer that i onlt satrted to lrarn somethiing
about the GPS bussiness
and even so
i am arrogant enouhg that i ahve some physics knowlwdge
and may be a bit of experience:
so
you ask about the quantitative weieght of
all other factors in gps calculations **except the alleged GR ones)
so
since i ddint invest too much in it i have a preemptive
question
but only to those who realy know and not hand waivers
and obfuscatos:
what is the ***net ** repeat *** net** contribution of
GR to those calculations(in percentage !!)
2
waht is the Net ** repeat* **** net** contribution of
SR (SR !!!) to those calcualtions (in percentage )
3
what are th e**net** contribution of
**all other factors *** in those calculations ??(in percentage)
TIA
Y.Porat
-----------------
Tom Potter
> On May 2, 1:42 am,Tom Potter<tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Eric Gisse" <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
>
> > 1177985597.640719.225...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> > > [snip stupidity]
>
> > > Shut the fuck up, Tom.
>
> > Gisse's concept of "rational" thinking,
> > is more like that of the three monkeys.
>
> > "See no evaluation of General Relativity."
> > "Hear no evaluation of General Relativity."
> > "Speak no evaluation of General Relativity."
>
> What "evaluation" did you have in mind, Tom? What's your criterion for
> science that passes your muster? That it has measurable economic
> impact on everyday life within, what, 5 years? 7 years? And what's
> your criterion for sufficient impact? And what's your vehicle for
> measurement?
Discounted rate of return in dollar equivalence of energy,
integrated over five years for an individual,
integrated over ten years for a company,
integrated over twenty years for a nation, and
integrated over 100 years for a planet.
It will be interesting to see how much money (Energy)
the General Relativity Cult thinks can be justified
on any rational basis.
I dare say that few of the General Relativity Cult members
would invest in solar power, etc.
if they couldn't get their money back in five years,
and I suggest that a planet should not invest its'
money/energy in General Relativity
unless it can be demonstrated that such an
investment would pay for its' self in 100 years.
I suggest that the people who think that
technology is frozen and that enormous amounts
of a person's, company's, nation's resources
should be invested in horses, vacuum tube technology,
78 RPM records, 45 RPM records, 33 1/3 RPM records,
MP3 technology, has no faith in the REAL progress
of technology and science.
Trying to see farther than that into the future
smacks more of faith and religion,
than of science and rationality.
These are the kinds of people
who want to shoot the whole wad
on lottery tickets.
I suggest that rational people should wise up
and quit wasting the resources of the taxpayers (Other folks)
on General Relativity lottery tickets.
Eric Gisse
> On May 2, 7:31 pm, Eric Gisse <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 2, 1:50 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > [....]
>
> > I have noticed that you have brought up lots of qualitative examples
> > but you haven't, even once, shown the magnitude of their effects
> > compared to GR.
>
> --------------
> since you asked something tha looks (i hope at least looks )
> a sa legitimate civilised question
> i will try to answer
> though
> i alreadt made a disclaimer that i onlt satrted to lrarn somethiing
> about the GPS bussiness
So you are making sweeping claims about something you have only _just
started_ to learn about?
> and even so
> i am arrogant enouhg that i ahve some physics knowlwdge
> and may be a bit of experience:
Which takes me back to my original question - why?
You don't actually have an education in physics, nor do you understand
the subject matter.
> so
> you ask about the quantitative weieght of
> all other factors in gps calculations **except the alleged GR ones)
No, I ask about your qualifications.
> so
> since i ddint invest too much in it i have a preemptive
> question
> but only to those who realy know and not hand waivers
> and obfuscatos:
>
> what is the ***net ** repeat *** net** contribution of
> GR to those calculations(in percentage !!)
100%. The satellites are in orbit.
All measurable influences, except for maybe drag, will be
gravitational in nature.
Why don't you actually do a little research before mumbling about a
subject you don't understand?
> 2
> waht is the Net ** repeat* **** net** contribution of
> SR (SR !!!) to those calcualtions (in percentage )
Why are you even asking? You should know by now that SR is not a
theory of gravitation.
>
> 3
> what are th e**net** contribution of
> **all other factors *** in those calculations ??(in percentage)
100% +/- an amount that is unimportant.
You don't even understand the basics but you want a breakdown of every
force on the spacecraft so you can argue over minutia.
>
> TIA
> Y.Porat
> -----------------
Tom Potter
> "Tom Potter" <tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1178082397.7...@c35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > "Phineas T Puddleduck" <phineaspuddled...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:phineaspuddleduck-B...@news.octanews.com...
> >> In article <aP-dnSc7TboqP6rbnZ2dnUVZ8qKvn...@pipex.net>,
> >> "T Wake" <usenet.es...@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
>
> >>> KookFite!
>
> >> Tom is campaigning for his kook award
>
> > Although T Wake and Puddleduck are considered to be
> > two of the most immature, sociopathic, and neurotic posters
> > on the Internet,
>
> Thanks, again. It is nice you felt the need to say it twice.
>
> <snip campaign speech, unread>
I am pleased to see T Wake admit
that it bothers him to read rational, intelligent critiques of General
Relativity,
and that like the three monkeys, he:
sees no criticism of General Relativity,
hears no criticism of General Relativity, and
speaks no criticism of General Relativity.
Spoken like a true, brainwashed cultist.
Perhaps the following comparison of General Relativity
to other models will help deprogram T Wake.
It appears that General Relativity is "Weird Science"
that generates more heat than light,
and wastes time, money and minds
on such pursuits beyond man's capacity to experience in time and
space.
(The birth and death of the universe, etc.)
"A mind is a terrible thing to waste. "
And as can be seen by the posts of T Wake, Gisse, Puddelduck,
and other members of the General Relativity Cult,
which demonstrate that they close their minds
and mount personal attacks on critics of General Relativity,
Jeff…Relf
you're just hurting, and it's a sorry sight.
Money is like food...
and you're like the fat man who's convinced he's starving.
Gravity Probe B improved the precision of our instruments,
I like it when the government spends money that way.
Ya can't have too much precision.
Y.Porat
-----------------
1
motion is one of the basics of physics
(you suplied me with another postulate:
'no motion no physics ' !!! (:-)
btw
did i understood you correctly ???
that you claime that there is no motion
or do you claime that there is only continous motion ??
2
determinism and descretetism are not in contardiction!!
3
what i s 'activist' according to you ???
ATB
Y.Porat
-------------------------
Y.Porat
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
-----------------
plese note Mr student
i was strict in not inserting personal remarks
what soever
cant you dothe same ??
if not i will get again into personal insults
so if you what a humanly discussion
dont insert a single personal word
or else !!!
so again
th eGPS bussiness is not jsut a body that orbits
around earth
there is a lot of super complicated
electronic equipment on it
that has rules of itself
without it it is worth as a gided misile and nothing more
ok ???!!
so what is the contribution
of all the other com[ponents that are involved in
an the parctial use of GPS
(like tell you in your car waht is exactly your location!)
sio waht are all those factors---
not includiong the GR factor
that take part of that computor calcualtion
that tells youi the exaxct coordinates of which
you ar elocated just now with your
electronic daughter device
that is aprt of the 'mother device 'somewherein sapce
and other electronic devices that are
in another location on earth to make allthat complex work?
2
what are all the corrections
BESIDE THE GR CORRRECTIONS that are needed
**nonstop** in order to make the whole system
give you the exact location of yourse ??
(BTW -- why dio you think there is a need in a nonstop
process of corrections
****even if you satnd still
in your car for say one hour !!!****???
i ask you first qualitatively
waht are those*** non GR *** factors
later i migh task about it **quantitatively**
Y.Porat
--------------------------------
BearItAll
Is there really a General Reletivity Cult?
Seems a bit like having an algebra cult, The cult of The Sine Tables.
Does the GR Cult carry banners and walk in circles outside parliament
shouting 'eee equals em see squared eee equals em see squared...'?
Scientists eh, love em or hate em they all bleeding nutters, I know, I
worked with many of them.
PD
> On May 2, 5:20 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > What "evaluation" did you have in mind, Tom? What's your criterion for
> > science that passes your muster? That it has measurable economic
> > impact on everyday life within, what, 5 years? 7 years? And what's
> > your criterion for sufficient impact? And what's your vehicle for
> > measurement?
>
> Discounted rate of return in dollar equivalence of energy,
> integrated over five years for an individual,
> integrated over ten years for a company,
> integrated over twenty years for a nation, and
> integrated over 100 years for a planet.
>
> It will be interesting to see how much money (Energy)
> the General Relativity Cult thinks can be justified
> on any rational basis.
>
As I said, I'm glad you're not in charge of funding fundamental
research. It appears you have no interest in fundamental research,
only in applied research and technology. That's fine, and your metrics
above are appropriate for technology and engineering. Just not for
fundamental science.
But just for giggles, I wonder how the following would rank in terms
of rate of return according to the standards above:
1. Euclidean geometry
2. Copernican model of the solar system
3. Newtonian equations for refraction of light
4. Mendel's genetics
5. Quantum mechanics (origin ~1930)
6. Darwinian evolution
7. Galileo's kinematics and his obsrvation of Jupiter
8. Hubble's telescopy
9. Euler's exploration of e
Your scientific politics are clear. They are just shortsighted, and
you perhaps forget that most, if not all, technology advances (which
do respect the rate of return law you mention) are highly and
fundamentally dependent on fundamental research done long before and
without any clear promise (at the time) of an eventual pay-off. If you
think we could have done without any of the items in the list above,
and still be where we are technologically, I'm afraid then you're
being more than shortsighted. You're being blind.
PD
Y.Porat
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
--------------------
Mr PD
just get of quickly down from the abcj of the dashing elephant!!
no one underestimete the important of fundamental research
yet GR contributed negligable partical use
it at all
it is the elctronics optics computers etc
that are the dashing elepahnts
upon their abckes there are a lot of hand waivers
prasites!!
an army of parasites!!
that contribute nothing !!
GR is not a ahing elepahnt
iot is not even a dead horse ...
it is not useful as we saw even to GPS
that GR and GPS is one of the gig bluffes
of latest time
GPS is trial and errror computer system
its nonstop corrections are far more significant than
the alleged GR
and i bet we could do nicely without it
jaut by corrections of the ssytem in adjust ing it to
measirments !!
sometimes there is a need fo r the
little chield so see
and to shout
'The Emperrors ass is naked !!!' (;-)
ATB
Y.Porat
-----------------------------
---------------------------
Tom Potter
"PD" <TheDrap...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
1178198362....@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
It is interesting to see that PD
asserts that open ended funding with "other people's money"
of what he perceives as "fundamental research",
with no goal in mind about how the reserach will benefit mankind,
is the way to go.
As I posted in another thread,
I have seen government research up close,
and have profited from it,
and I can safely say that society would get far more
positive results per buck by allowing their governments to
give rewards to the people who make specified contributions,
rather than giving money to the same old gangs year after year,
and getting little or nothing in return for the investment.
It is illuminating to see that the transistor
was invented by Bell Labs, a private sector company
to make cheaper, lower energy consumption audio amplifiers,
and that large scale integrated circuits were invented
by Texas Instruments and Fairchild, private sector companies
wanting to sell to the controls market,
and that the microcomputer was invented by Intel,
a private sector company to sell to a communications company,
and that Holonyak, the inventor of the LED worked for General Electric
and Bell Labs,
private sector companies,
and that Robert Hall the inventor of the semiconductor laser worked
for General Electric,
a private sector company,
and that the mouse, object oriented software, and the GUI (Windows)
interface
was invented by Xerox, a private sector company,
and that Phil Katz a 23 years old unemployed boy,
invented file compression in 1986 and that spurred the search and
invention
of many other forms of file compression like MP3, GIF and JPG,
(GIF was invented by Cmpuserve in 1987.)
Giving the taxpayers money to the same old people on the taxpayer
dole,
year after year, is a great waste of the resources of society.
Government research grants are motivated by
politics, payoffs, kickbacks, race, religion, and nationality,
rather than benefits to society.
Tom Potter
"BearItAll" <sp...@rassler.co.uk> wrote in message news:
117819529...@damia.uk.clara.net...
"BearItAll" raises a good point!
As can be seen,
the General Relativity Cult defends General Relativity
as if it were a religion, and they spare no negative adjectives
in denouncing General Relativity critics.
On the other hand, the Algebra and Sine Table Cults
are far smaller, less intense, less noisy, and as far as I know,
they do not consume billions of the taxpayers dollars annually,
trying to rationalize Algebra and Sine Tables.
And I dare say that the Algebra and Sine Table Cults
could come up with a lot of real world systems that they
contributed to, and they would not have to make phony claims.
In fact these cults have a more valid claim to being essential to the
GPS system than General Relativity, and they should be
up in arms demanding billions of the taxpayer's dollars
to fund Algebra and Sine Table research.
I do take issue with "BearItAll" on one point.
--
Eric Gisse
[...]
> Government research grants are motivated by
> politics, payoffs, kickbacks, race, religion, and nationality,
> rather than benefits to society.
Here you are, bitching about it on the internet which was created by
DARPA.
>
> --
> Tom Potter
>
Eric Gisse
[...]
> i ask you first qualitatively
> waht are those*** non GR *** factors
> later i migh task about it **quantitatively**
I have no idea. Go read the spec.
>
> Y.Porat
> --------------------------------
PD
> "PD" <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
>
>
> > As I said, I'm glad you're not in charge of funding fundamental
> > research. It appears you have no interest in fundamental research,
> > only in applied research and technology. That's fine, and your metrics
> > above are appropriate for technology and engineering. Just not for
> > fundamental science.
>
> > But just for giggles, I wonder how the following would rank in terms
> > of rate of return according to the standards above:
> > 1. Euclidean geometry
> > 2. Copernican model of the solar system
> > 3. Newtonian equations for refraction of light
> > 4. Mendel's genetics
> > 5. Quantum mechanics (origin ~1930)
> > 6. Darwinian evolution
> > 7. Galileo's kinematics and his obsrvation of Jupiter
> > 8. Hubble's telescopy
> > 9. Euler's exploration of e
>
> > Your scientific politics are clear. They are just shortsighted, and
> > you perhaps forget that most, if not all, technology advances (which
> > do respect the rate of return law you mention) are highly and
> > fundamentally dependent on fundamental research done long before and
> > without any clear promise (at the time) of an eventual pay-off. If you
> > think we could have done without any of the items in the list above,
> > and still be where we are technologically, I'm afraid then you're
> > being more than shortsighted. You're being blind.
>
> asserts that open ended funding with "other people's money"
> of what he perceives as "fundamental research",
> with no goal in mind about how the reserach will benefit mankind,
> is the way to go.
Yes, indeed.
When Faraday was asked by Gladstone: "What is the practical worth of
it?" Faraday would have had no earthly notion of its potential
application. But he did (according to some accounts) correctly remark,
"One day, sir, you may tax it."
The reason why the government gets involved with this is that they are
*entrusted* by taxpayers (obviously not entrusted by all) to be
custodians of fundamental research during times when private industry
cannot sustain it on its own. There are certainly times when private
industry does support fundamental research, and incidentally a good
deal of fundamental research gets done as a *by-product* of trying to
get something shorter-term accomplished -- consider the "luckiest
Nobel ever" by Penzias and Wilson, and the accidental sponsoring of
Darwin's research.
I note that you failed to respond to the list above, wherein I asked
you which of those items would have satisfied your criteria for short-
term payoff and which of those that do not you would feel comfortable
having never been accomplished. Sounds like a lot of political hot
air, but a lack of courage of your convictions to follow through with
them, Tom.
>
> As I posted in another thread,
>
> I have seen government research up close,
> and have profited from it,
> and I can safely say that society would get far more
> positive results per buck by allowing their governments to
> give rewards to the people who make specified contributions,
> rather than giving money to the same old gangs year after year,
> and getting little or nothing in return for the investment.
>
This is, of course, your opinion, and a political funding one at that.
There are others who have seen government-funded research up close,
and in fact have done so from a vantage point that is considerably
more insightful than yours, and they strenuously disagree with your
position.
You as a voter have a right to cast your opinions as a vote. To claim
that your opinion is established fact, however, is a little off
target.
>
> Government research grants are motivated by
> politics, payoffs, kickbacks, race, religion, and nationality,
> rather than benefits to society.
I believe there a number of distinterested reviewers, who are
commissioned (at no fee) by the government to review research grant
proposals, would strongly disagree with this rather slanderous
statement.
PD
PD
>
> it is not useful as we saw even to GPS
> that GR and GPS is one of the gig bluffes
> of latest time
> GPS is trial and errror computer system
This statement is simply wrong.
> its nonstop corrections are far more significant than
> the alleged GR
This statement is also factually and numerically wrong, as has already
been discussed thoroughly and recently on this group.
> and i bet we could do nicely without it
And I'm glad that you are not in charge of it.
But it is also true that we could do nicely without the Copernican
model of the solar system. The epicycle model with the Earth in the
center is very practical and works as precisely as you need it do. Why
you would want to do that, is beyond me.
PD
hanson
in his message news:Jeff_Relf_2...@Cotse.NET...
> You're not activists, Tom Potter, John Bailo, Y Porat, Hanson, Dr. Tao;
> you're just hurting, and it's a sorry sight.
>
... so moans grievously jealous lodo crack-head Jeff in his own
splendid condition as he urges & advises to follow his example
for a happy acitivist's life, him preaching that...
>
[Jeff]
"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2...@Cotse.NET...
>>> Becoming homeless is no big deal, T_Wake.
>>> I'd just be trading one game for another, cheaper, one.
>>> I'd probably hack/crack more... maybe go back to "dating" again.
>
[more of Jeff's wisdom on crack]
> Money is like food...
> and you're like the fat man who's convinced he's starving.
> Gravity Probe B improved the precision of our instruments,
> I like it when the government spends money that way.
> Ya can't have too much precision.
>
ahahaha... ahahahaha... yeah, yeah... and it sounds all very
cracked you jumping from money to starving to Probe B to
the government and precision... ahahaha... IOW you, Jeff, just
announced that "Yeff can't have too much crack".... ahahaha...
So, go have more then... ahahaha....Thanks for the laughs, Jeff...
ahahaha... ahahanson
John Bailo
> Ya can't have too much precision.
>
Relf, here's something to calm you down when you're under the covers:
http://americandinosaur.mu.nu/archives/nancy_pelosi.jpg
"Pictures of Nancy made my life so wonderful
Pictures of Nancy helped me sleep at night
Pitcures of Nancy solved my childhood problems
Pictures of Nancy helped me feel alright"
Phineas T Puddleduck
"Y.Porat" <y.y....@gmail.com> wrote:
> what is the ***net ** repeat *** net** contribution of
> GR to those calculations(in percentage !!)
> 2
> waht is the Net ** repeat* **** net** contribution of
> SR (SR !!!) to those calcualtions (in percentage )
>
> 3
> what are th e**net** contribution of
> **all other factors *** in those calculations ??(in percentage)
Porat obfuscates,
And tries to dodge the question
Typical kook sign.
--
Sacred keeper of the Hollow Sphere, and the space within the Coffee Boy
singularity.
COOSN-174-07-82116: alt.astronomy's favourite poster (from a survey taken
of the saucerhead high command).
Phineas T Puddleduck
Tom Potter <tdp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am pleased to see T Wake admit
> that it bothers him to read rational, intelligent critiques of General
> Relativity,
No no no, thats not a haiku!
The GR theory
has yet to be refuted
so you keep whining.
Jeff…Relf
I haven't seen anything from you to suggest that
you really do know Dr. Tao.
You judge his trades without a drop of research, that's wrong.
Jeff…Relf
uses General Relativity to explain the origins of the known Universe.
This conflicts with the creation myth in the Bible.
Even in the U.S., legislation is formed against Evolution,
a.k.a. " The origin of the species ".
Evolution says our ancestors were once worms.
Although it's unimaginable, G.R. tells us we're " 4-D rocks ".
Imagine a 3-D movie that doesn't move, laid out before you.
Imagine a series of statues depicting a horse in trot.
That's spatial time, 4-D space... but it's continuous, not discrete,
because physical processes determine absolutely everything.
All changes, all choices, are merely notional.
Time is only falsely directional,
because randomness is never an intrinsic reality.
PseuoEntropy is our PseudoGod.
From Einstein's, " Ether and the Theory of Relativity " ( 1920 )
Tom Potter
PD makes a good point when he points out
that Faraday understood that for a model to be of value,
it had to generate, rather than consume, wealth.
It is sad to see that after almost 100 years,
General Relativity continues to consume
billions of tax dollars, whereas other models
prove their utility daily.
General Relativity continues to waste billions of the taxpayer's
dollars
on experiments designed to rationalize it,
using numerous Classical Physics hacks to compensate for
electric and magnetic effects, friction, windage,
metal creep, pressure, the atmosphere, nearby masses, etc.
With a record like this,
it is not surprising that the General Relativity Cult is
desperate to make the false claim
that GTR was essential to the GPS system.
And it is not surprising that the General Relativity Charlatans
are anxious to discredit their distracters,
as they could not earn a decent income in the free market.
Tom Potter
> In article <1178181512....@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
> Tom Potter <tdp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am pleased to see T Wake admit
>> that it bothers him to read rational, intelligent critiques of General
>> Relativity,
>
> No no no, thats not a haiku!
>
> The GR theory
> has yet to be refuted
> so you keep whining.
There are numerous models that
have not been "refuted",
when limited to a small set of observations,
but the real question is:
"What is the value of General Relativity?",\
General Relativity continues to waste billions of the taxpayer's
dollars
on experiments designed to rationalize it,
using numerous Classical Physics hacks to compensate for
electric and magnetic effects, friction, windage,
metal creep, pressure, the atmosphere, nearby masses, etc.
With a record like this,
it is not surprising that the General Relativity Cult is
desperate to make the false claim
that GTR was essential to the GPS system.
I might point out that I instrumented a General Relativity
experiment back in the 1960's,
that attempted to measure gravity radiation.
A tiny ball bearing was suspended with a magnetic field
in a high vacuum, and was spun up to an extremely high
angular velocity (RPM) with a radio frequency generator.
An optical transducer was used to sense the
angular velocity (RPM) and an electronic counter
indicated and recorded the RPM.
If there were no losses, the thing would spin forever
at the same RPM, but most dissipative forces cause the
RPM to decay exponentially.
By varying various factors such as materials used,
nearby magnetic and electric fields and masses, light intensity, etc.
it is possible to determine how these factors affect the spinning
body.
The bottom line is,
in this experiment, and in the Gravity B Probe experiment,
and in the GPS claims, and in every other attempt
to rationalize General Relativity, gross measurements are taken,
and hacked away using Classical Physics equations
to account for windage, metal creep, heat radiation, momentum of
light,
magnetic and electric induction and radiation, etc.
And after all of these Classical Physics hacks,
one ends up with effects that impinge on
the Uncertainty Principle, Brownian Movement,
interstellar noise, and just plain old randomness.
It appears that
General Relativity is about as useful as Astrology,
Religion and tea leaf reading when it comes
to making viable, cost-effective, useful measurements
that can be used by rational, intelligent folks
to plan their day, or even their millennium,
or for that matter, the next million years.
Considering that Puddleduck asserts that General Relativity is
useful,
and pretends to be proficient in its use,
I challenge him to post an analysis of the experiment I mentioned
above,
and break out all the things that affect spin of the ball bearing,
and to show how the intensity of "gravitation radiation"
compares to such things as windage in a vacuum.
Now, Puddleduck may be brilliant as he pretends to be,
but it has been my experience in dealing with people
for many years, that GTR Charlatans can't earn a decent income
in the free market, and GTR Parrots are generally losers
with low self esteem, who pretend to be
privy to powerful, esoteric knowledge.
Puddleduck wrote in the previous post:
"Porat obfuscates,
And tries to dodge the question
Typical kook sign."
It will be interesting to see if Puddleduck
will define himself as a "Kook" by:
"obfuscat<img>, And <trying> to dodge the question".
General Relativity is more of a religion,
and it wastes enormous amounts of time, money and minds
on such things as time travel, worm holes, space warps,
gravity waves, rubber rulers and clocks, etc.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
And as can be seen by the way General Relativity Cultists
aggressively and personally attack folks,
and never demonstrate the value of their
"powerful, esoteric knowledge",
Eric Gisse
[...]
The point went right over your fucking head, idiot salesman.
BearItAll
Gosh. Who would have thought it.
Jeff…Relf
so all motion is merely notional, not intrinsic. For more, see:
" http://WikiPedia.ORG/wiki/Block_time ".
An " activist " is a complainer.
He wants _ You _ to solve his problems.
I think you complain too much, Porat.
General Relativity tests the limits of our insturments.
How better to improve them ?
And who but the government could undertake such a Herculean task ?
Jeff…Relf
" Gosh. Who would have thought it. ".
Thousands of Zen masters, for one.
BearItAll
Oh Zen is it, I know all about the wizzydom of Zen.
That wizzydom that killed every bird in China to improve crop yeild only to
find the very next year that it wasn't the birds eating the crops after
all, it was the insects and now there were no birds they was a massive
increase in insects which munched their way through lots of crops. As it
happens the increase of insects also meant that transmission of crop,
animal and human deseases was also much more efficient.
That wizzydom that kills the tigers because some so called wise Zen like
dick head said that eating a tigers dick is good for your sex life.
And I am afraid that the crap you mentioned of the cosmology and the daft
use of lambda and the other junk of which you spoke, looks very much like
the same dull brained Zen crap of which I speak. There is a certain sort of
wisdom that only comes from a bottle of something strong or sniffing
something illegal, that tends to be what Zen is, Bollocks In A Bottle.
PD
> "PD" <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:
>
...even though he had no earthly idea at the time in what possible way
it could generate, rather than consume, wealth. He also knew (because
he was asking Mr. Gladstone for sponsorship of his work) that before
it could generate wealth, the research would consume wealth. This is
the R in R & D. Note the similarities here. I am just as confident as
Faraday was that one day we will be putting GR to practical purposes.
What those practical purposes are, I cannot tell you (nor can anyone),
any more than Faraday could at the time.
You have the patience, Tom, of a 3-year-old, wanting instant
gratification for everything.
>
> It is sad to see that after almost 100 years,
> General Relativity continues to consume
> billions of tax dollars, whereas other models
> prove their utility daily.
Please refer to the list that I've already pointed to twice, and
please indicate to me how each of those proved their utility to the
world within a handful of decades of the original work.
If you cannot cite their timely utility, then please assert that the
world would be better off without them, as well. Have courage in your
convictions, or be considered capricious and arbitrary in your
criticism of GR.
PD
PD
No it didn't. But like a salesman, he does not answer questions he
doesn't like. Part of being a salesman is controlling the message.
PD
T Wake
"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
> Time is spatial,
Incorrect.
T Wake
"Tom Potter" <tdp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178210038.9...@c35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >> You're not activists, Tom Potter, John Bailo, Y Porat, Hanson, Dr. Tao;
> >> you're just hurting, and it's a sorry sight.
> >>
> >> Money is like food...
> >> and you're like the fat man who's convinced he's starving.
> >>
> >> Gravity Probe B improved the precision of our instruments,
> >> I like it when the government spends money that way.
> >> Ya can't have too much precision.
> >
> > Is there really a General Reletivity Cult?
> >
> > Seems a bit like having an algebra cult, The cult of The Sine Tables.
> >
> > Does the GR Cult carry banners and walk in circles outside parliament
> > shouting 'eee equals em see squared eee equals em see squared...'?
> >
> > Scientists eh, love em or hate em they all bleeding nutters, I know, I
> > worked with many of them.
>
> "BearItAll" raises a good point!
>
Yet you have managed to completely miss it.
T Wake
"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
> The Concordance Model of Cosmology, a.k.a. Lambda-CDM,
> uses General Relativity to explain the origins of the known Universe.
Yet not in a manner that you understand.
> This conflicts with the creation myth in the Bible.
>
> Even in the U.S., legislation is formed against Evolution,
> a.k.a. " The origin of the species ".
If you mean Darwin's book, it is titled "The Origin of Species." Does adding
the second "the" change it's meaning for you?
> Evolution says our ancestors were once worms.
Well, loosely put, maybe.
> Although it's unimaginable, G.R. tells us we're " 4-D rocks ".
Nope.
> Imagine a 3-D movie that doesn't move, laid out before you.
> Imagine a series of statues depicting a horse in trot.
>
> That's spatial time, 4-D space... but it's continuous, not discrete,
> because physical processes determine absolutely everything.
> All changes, all choices, are merely notional.
Wow. Relf Brand Woo at it's best.
> Time is only falsely directional,
> because randomness is never an intrinsic reality.
When you say "A=B because C=D" there has be some relationship between the
two. In your example you have just written nonsense.
> PseuoEntropy is our PseudoGod.
Says you.
> From Einstein's, " Ether and the Theory of Relativity " ( 1920 )
> quoted at " http://TUHH.DE/rzt/rzt/it/Ether.html ":
>
> " But this ether may not be thought of as
> endowed with the quality characteristic of ponderable media,
> as consisting of parts which may be tracked through time.
>
> The idea of motion may not be applied to it. ".
It is always good to quote dead people out of context. They can't
complain...
T Wake
"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff...@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
> Speaking of spatial time, you ( BearItAll ) replied:
> " Gosh. Who would have thought it. ".
>
> Thousands of Zen masters, for one.
Even if what you said was true, an appeal to the majority often belies a
logical fallacy.
T Wake
"Eric Gisse" <jow...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178212271.3...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On May 3, 9:31 am, Tom Potter <tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> Government research grants are motivated by
>> politics, payoffs, kickbacks, race, religion, and nationality,
>> rather than benefits to society.
>
> Here you are, bitching about it on the internet which was created by
> DARPA.
>
Sadly, Kooks are immune to Irony...
T Wake
> On May 2, 10:56 pm, "T Wake" <usenet.es...@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
>> "Tom Potter" <tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1178082397.7...@c35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Phineas T Puddleduck" <phineaspuddled...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:phineaspuddleduck-B...@news.octanews.com...
>> >> In article <aP-dnSc7TboqP6rbnZ2dnUVZ8qKvn...@pipex.net>,
>> >> "T Wake" <usenet.es...@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>> KookFite!
>>
>> >> Tom is campaigning for his kook award
>>
>> > Although T Wake and Puddleduck are considered to be
>> > two of the most immature, sociopathic, and neurotic posters
>> > on the Internet,
>>
>> Thanks, again. It is nice you felt the need to say it twice.
>>
>> <snip campaign speech, unread>
>
> I am pleased to see T Wake admit
> that it bothers him to read rational, intelligent critiques of General
> Relativity,
Nope. It doesn't "bother" me. If what you wrote was rational or intelligent
(or even a critique in any sane sense of the word) of GR, I would have read
it.
As it stands, your screed is repetitive and boring. You should pay people to
read it, but even then most wouldn't.
<snip drivel>
T Wake
>
> "Phineas T Puddleduck" <phineasp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:phineaspuddleduck-3...@news.octanews.com...
>> In article <1178181512....@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
>> Tom Potter <tdp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am pleased to see T Wake admit
>>> that it bothers him to read rational, intelligent critiques of General
>>> Relativity,
>>
>> No no no, thats not a haiku!
>>
>> The GR theory
>> has yet to be refuted
>> so you keep whining.
>
> There are numerous models that
> have not been "refuted",
> when limited to a small set of observations,
Wow. The KookWoo is strong in you.
> but the real question is:
>
> "What is the value of General Relativity?",\
Says who? Why do you have the authority to say what the real question is, or
isn't?
Y.Porat
---------------
yet you ddint notice that your dimasion no 4
introduces the th e physicsl entity that is cl\alled motion.
iow motion can be hd\idden behind amny presentations
and youdidnt notice it
sobottom line ::
No motion - no physics
now i just wonder how a common human being
can deny motion that seems to be one of the basics of life as
well !!! ???
i would say following De Cartes
' move therefor i live' and exist !!! (:-)
ATB
Y.Porat
----------------------
Y.Porat
> On May 3, 5:08 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > i ask you first qualitatively
> > waht are those*** non GR *** factors
> > later i migh task about it **quantitatively**
>
> I have no idea. Go read the spec.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Y.Porat
> > --------------------------------- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
----------------
of course you dont know
only real experts of GPS realy know it !!!
and oh i forgot:
that is exactly why you (and me at this moment)
cant tell what is the correction
portion of GR and -----
**all other corrections of GPS**
and therefore you cant tell the **proportions** between
the GR corrections and all the other corrections
and whichis more significalt
and which is less significant or may be -negligable !!!
Y.Porat
--------------
Y.Porat
> On May 3, 10:51 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > it is not useful as we saw even to GPS
> > that GR and GPS is one of the gig bluffes
> > of latest time
> > GPS is trial and errror computer system
>
> This statement is simply wrong.
>
> > its nonstop corrections are far more significant than
> > the alleged GR
>
> This statement is also factually and numerically wrong, as has already
> been discussed thoroughly and recently on this group.
>
> > and i bet we could do nicely without it
>
> And I'm glad that you are not in charge of it.
>
> But it is also true that we could do nicely without the Copernican
> model of the solar system. The epicycle model with the Earth in the
> center is very practical and works as precisely as you need it do. Why
> you would want to do that, is beyond me.
>
> PD
-------------------
if you say so
who am i to say anything else !!! (:-)
**you say ** .....(:-)
oh btw PD i have a little question to you:
just for instance
supose there is a sun burst of EM waves
as usually happence form time to time
will that influence the GPS calcualtions
(the electronic comunication between the satellites
and earth (earth that is orbiting the sun ...(:-))
etc etc ???
and what will be its influence quantitatively
on the GPS system
is your knowledge good enough to answer it??
did you ever even just - though about it ??
can we get an honest answer ??? (:-)
(atthis point i gorvive you the quantitative answer
may be jsut a littlle qualitative answer
the quantitative will come later .......
TIA
Y.Porat
----------------------
T Wake
"Y.Porat" <y.y....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178290317.1...@n59g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
I would say this is a k0okfite but Borat is not comprehendible enough to be
sure...
PD
As far as I know, a solar flare has been known to knock out reliable
communication from the satellites, but GPS receivers look for multiple
satellites in those cases. I'm not aware of any daily clock GPS
corrections that have been anomalously large and correlated to any
solar flare activity, though I'm sure that someone at the GPS
Intergalactic Control Room Top Secret Center could probably answer
that.
I gather you are trying to insinuate that "something could be going
wrong with the system."
Whatever.
Regardless, it seems highly unlikely that when the recorded
corrections are a few nanoseconds daily, that sunspots could result in
a consistent, day-after-day perturbation of 38000 ns.
PD
>
> is your knowledge good enough to answer it??
> did you ever even just - though about it ??
> can we get an honest answer ??? (:-)
>
> (atthis point i gorvive you the quantitative answer
> may be jsut a littlle qualitative answer
> the quantitative will come later .......
>
> TIA
> Y.Porat
Mark Kent
I have to say that I particularly enjoyed that posting - thanks.
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
| Cola faq: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/ |
| Cola trolls: http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/ |
Eric Gisse
You are arguing from ignorance.
The _only_ influences on the clock will be the inherent instability of
the clock itself, and general relativistic corrections. The
satellite's orbit will be slightly influenced by the minimal amounts
of drag at those altitudes.
I don't know how big the clock instabilities are nor do I know how
much processing fuckery adds to it, but I do know both of those are
far smaller than the 38,000 ns/day correction that is predicted by GR.
Go read about NTS-2 - it was one of the test satellites for the global
positioning system back in the day. It did not work without the GR
correction.
Phineas T Puddleduck
Tom Potter <tdp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Now, Puddleduck may be brilliant as he pretends to be,
> but it has been my experience in dealing with people
> for many years, that GTR Charlatans can't earn a decent income
> in the free market, and GTR Parrots are generally losers
> with low self esteem, who pretend to be
> privy to powerful, esoteric knowledge.
>
> Puddleduck wrote in the previous post:
> "Porat obfuscates,
> And tries to dodge the question
> Typical kook sign."
>
> It will be interesting to see if Puddleduck
> will define himself as a "Kook" by:
> "obfuscat<img>, And <trying> to dodge the question".
Potter, attacking
the messenger in this way
makes you the fool
--
Sacred keeper of the Hollow Sphere, and the space within the Coffee Boy
singularity.
COOSN-174-07-82116: alt.astronomy's favourite poster (from a survey taken
of the saucerhead high command).
Phineas T Puddleduck
"T Wake" <usenet...@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
The GR cult. The way of the extremal path?
Phineas T Puddleduck
"Y.Porat" <y.y....@gmail.com> wrote:
> of course you dont know
>
> only real experts of GPS realy know it !!!
> and oh i forgot:
>
> that is exactly why you (and me at this moment)
> cant tell what is the correction
> portion of GR and -----
>
> **all other corrections of GPS**
>
> and therefore you cant tell the **proportions** between
> the GR corrections and all the other corrections
> and whichis more significalt
> and which is less significant or may be -negligable !!!
Porat, your knowledge
Of modern physics is such,
you cannot comment.
Jade hasn't said anything about this nym yet, except that she said that she said something about it a long tyme ago...
> In article <1178247925.6...@c35g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> Tom Potter <tdp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Now, Puddleduck may be brilliant as he pretends to be,
>> but it has been my experience in dealing with people
>> for many years, that GTR Charlatans can't earn a decent income
>> in the free market, and GTR Parrots are generally losers
>> with low self esteem, who pretend to be
>> privy to powerful, esoteric knowledge.
>>
>> Puddleduck wrote in the previous post:
>> "Porat obfuscates,
>> And tries to dodge the question
>> Typical kook sign."
>>
>> It will be interesting to see if Puddleduck
>> will define himself as a "Kook" by:
>> "obfuscat<img>, And <trying> to dodge the question".
>
>
> Potter, attacking
> the messenger in this way
> makes you the fool
>
yeah, he should have just labeled you a kook and been done with it all.
--
jade hasn't said anything about my new sig, either, except that she said
that she did.
Rob "Mop Jockey" "Roberta" Wolfe
OFISHIAL Benevolent Dictator of AUK
HAotM, ConT, dw:OPP, ASPCA , HAND, FOAD
http://netkooks.org/ofishialbenevolentdictator/picture.jpg
<insert more imaginary titles here later>
--
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