Re: Zionazis Trolling Usenet For Physics Information
DuhIdiot
was a worthy use of a keyboard:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:03:39 +0000, DuhIdiot
> <jmSasP...@windstream.net> wrote:
>
>>Wanna guess
>
> I don't have to guess, but you certainly are doing a lot of that.
> That's why you're trolling usenet and using remote neural monitoring
> to get physics information. Is Nathan Rothschild too stupid to answer
> your questions, eh?
>
> Have you figured out what gravity is yet. hummm.....?????
>
> Why don't you confer with Nathan Rothschild. His relatives think
> Saturn Jupiter are closer to the Sun than Earth.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------------- On September 1, Dmitry Medvedev, the
> 43-year old President of Russia, was at his presidential residence in
> the Black Sea resort of Sochi. President Medvedev told Russian
> television Channel One that "Russia will never yield to the world
> order where all decisions are taken by the United States exclusively;
> the world should be multicolor."
>
> http://www.daily.pk/politics/politicalnews/7333-america-is-retreating-e
> verywhere-except-in-pakistan.html
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------------
>
> http://www.daily.pk/politics/politicalnews/7333-america-is-retreating-e
> verywhere-except-in-pakistan.html
Bingo! Totally blew all the fuses in your already-flagging rationality
module. Hopefully they'll replace it with the human model and not another
hamster one.
"Zionazi"! Crack me the fuck up at work, why dontcha!
--
J. B. Mashburn, the sad left tail of the bell curve
alt.atheist #2295, http://questioner.www2.50megs.com/list1.html
EAC Chief Of Maintenance for God's cloaking device - 14 billion years and
not one glitch!
"What a day, if you can look it in the face and hold your vomit." - Faith
No More
No S-P-A-M in my email.
Cary Kittrell
Hey, c'mon...he can't help it. The accelerating tilt of the Earth's
axis -- which will culminate in the December Day of Doom -- has unhinged
his mind.
-- cary
DuhIdiot
was a worthy use of a keyboard:
<snip>
> Ask Nathan Rothschild. His relatives believe Saturn and Jupiter are
> closer to the Sun than Earth.
> http://www.infowars.com/articles/science/global_warming_rothschild_jupi
> ter_closer_to_sun_than_earth.htm
>
> No wonder the Zionazis don't have a clue about physics.
>
> They also don't know much about economics either.
>
> Are you sure you want them as your Ubermasters?
You absolute anencephalic gonad.
What you're blabbering about:
<link>
Appearing on The Alex Jones Show this past Friday, Rothschild reacted to a
point about massive climate change at every point of the solar system and
its relation to natural sun cycles by claiming Mars, Saturn and Jupiter
were closer to the sun than Earth!
Here's a brief transcript of the exchange.
ALEX JONES: "The polar icecaps of Mars are receding at several miles a
year, much faster than ours and that the moons of Saturn and Jupiter are
melting, in fact several of their moons were ice and are now liquid seas -
how are SUV's causing that David Rothschild?
ROTHSCHILD: "Because those planets are closer to the sun, my friend."
ALEX JONES: "No, Jupiter and Saturn are not closer to the sun and neither
is Mars."
Rothschild then quickly changes the subject and when the point is raised
again later in the show, he makes no effort to correct himself.
</link>
Rothschild meant "those planets are closer to the sun" THAN THOSE PLANETS
RECENTLY WERE, not closer to the sun than the Earth.
Christ's cock in Mary's mouth, the irony. A loon who says the Earth is
going to fall into the sun and burn up followed the lead of some fuckhead
blogger who didn't realize somebody was talking about planets orbiting
closer to the sun and warming up.
You are the stupidest person in the world. I don't know where I'm getting
the strength not to guffaw myself out of this job right now.
DuhIdiot
was a worthy use of a keyboard:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 20:08:12 +0000, DuhIdiot
> <jmSasP...@windstream.net> wrote:
>
>>www.freedomtofascism.com, on 23 Sep 2008, in alt.atheism, decided this
>>was a worthy use of a keyboard:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>> Ask Nathan Rothschild. His relatives believe Saturn and Jupiter are
>>> closer to the Sun than Earth.
>>> http://www.infowars.com/articles/science/global_warming_rothschild_ju
>>> pi ter_closer_to_sun_than_earth.htm
> You're acting like a blithering idiot.
I am an Idiot, and I'm talking to someone who only speaks blither. Whaddaya
gonna do?
> It looks like you talked
> yourself right out of your job.
>
> The stock market is crashing and there's 455 trillion in US dollars in
> defunct derivatives yet to evaporate.
>
> Way to go.
Well, shit, what better way to evaporate them than to plunge the whole
planet into the corona of the nearest star?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S-T0c6dYLc
Be damned if I'm paying my mortgage. When the fuckers come to foreclose,
ignoring the sun filling half the sky and the fact that their flesh and
mine has been burned from our charred bones, I'm going to jump into a
stance and use Krillin's Solar Flare attack on 'em. I can just see the
looks on their skulls when it actually works!
Damaeus
Tue, 23 Sep 2008 16:15:53 +0400:
> The stock market is crashing and there's 455 trillion in US dollars in
> defunct derivatives yet to evaporate.
Yeah, shredded cheese is $5.25 a pound at Wal-Mart now.
Damaeus
Mike Painter
> cash to buy a loaf of bread.
>
> The CIA can't manipulate enough money to buy themselves a physicist.
FtF shows that his knowledge of almost anything is stupidly wrong.
Damaeus
> Your money is so worthless you'll need a wheel barrow to haul
> enough cash to buy a loaf of bread.
Money was never meant to have worth. It was meant to be used as a
medium of exchange so I won't have to settle for your coonskin hat for
my leather boots. The only reason money has any value is because of
the control of it, just like mother nature controls the supply of
gold, giving it its value.
The Federal Reserve currently pipes money into the economy through
channels that cause inflation and vast differences between the rich
and poor. To fix the economy, the money should be piped into the
economy through the citizens. That way the citizens compound tax
revenues multiple times by buying the lifestyles they want. Production
skyrockets, employment skyrockets, tax revenues skyrocket, and America
becomes a fortress of wealth and prosperity for everyone, instead of
having a few filthy rich people now while the rest of the people
struggle to keep their debts paid.
Damaeus
Jeff▲Relf
to fund foolishness like trying to control Iraq and Afghanistan
or to lend it to people with no credit so they can buy a big ol' house,
they're robbing you, taking money directly from your wallet.
What's more, you let them do it,
because that's the price you pay to continue living in “ DisneyLand ”.
And they lie to your face, telling you they haven't taxed you;
as if inflation wasn't a tax on everyone, everywhere,
who's foolish enough to get paid in dollars.
One dollar is like one share in MicroSoft,
only a fool would “ invest ” in it.
One glance at the pump prices, and you know the dollar's worth.
mike3
> Every time George Bush's team prints another dollar
> to fund foolishness like trying to control Iraq and Afghanistan
> or to lend it to people with no credit so they can buy a big ol' house,
>
> they're robbing you, taking money directly from your wallet.
>
> What's more, you let them do it,
> because that's the price you pay to continue living in " DisneyLand ".
>
So what? Go and stop paying taxes and go to jail? Or what? How do you
escape this evil "Disney Land"?
Damaeus
> The Federal Reserve is a parasitic scam used to create artificial debt which
> robs people of their real wealth, steal assets and enslave people to a
> system which exists solely to perpetuate the parasitic scam and keep people
> in debt to the money printers.
Um... I already know all of this and have taken my thinking FAR FAR
beyond describing the problem as you have. I've actually provided a
solution to the problem, if you would but go back and read it instead
of stopping where your thinking dictates to reply. Go back and read
it. I think you'll like my solution.
Damaeus
Damaeus
20 Sep 2008 03:50:16 GMT:
> Every time George Bush's team prints another dollar
> to fund foolishness like trying to control Iraq and Afghanistan
> or to lend it to people with no credit so they can buy a big ol' house,
>
> they're robbing you, taking money directly from your wallet.
I'll tell you like I told the other guy, I already know all of this
and I don't need to be told. I provided a solution in my post, not
just a bunch of whining and complaints as you have.
Damaeus
Damaeus
2008 21:45:12 -0700 (PDT):
> So what? Go and stop paying taxes and go to jail? Or what? How do you
> escape this evil "Disney Land"?
The solution is in my post they replied to, but nobody seems to have
read it. It's like people read the first two lines, then reply with
rage.
The Federal Reserve *NEEDS* to pipe money into the economy ONLY
through its citizens! That way, people spend the money that generates
taxes that keeps everything running properly. The reason we have the
problems NOW is because the Federal Reserve loans money to the
government instead of distributing it through the people. As a
result, the government spends money on expensive programs to give food
stamps and welfare to people who wouldn't need it in the first place
if the federal reserve put money into the economy THROUGH the people
and NOT the government!
Damaeus
Jeff▲Relf
I'm not moving to capitalist Russia to avoid communist America, not yet.
Damaeus
> On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:59:00 -0500, Damaeus <dam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >The solution is
>
> There's no solution to economic failure.
Stop there and say that, huh? Don't even bother to read the
motherfucker?
Damaeus
Damaeus
> On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:55:19 -0500, Damaeus <dam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >I've actually provided a
> >solution to the problem,
>
> There is no solution to economic failure and the lack of scientific
> progress.
Since that is obviously a statement of fact for you, you will be
blinded to the solution when it stares you in the face.
Damaeus
Damaeus
> On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 07:40:15 -0500, Damaeus <dam...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Stop there and say that, huh? Don't even bother to read the
> >motherfucker?
>
> There's no reason to read anything regarding a solution to economic failure
> -- the solution is to LET IT FAIL.
Having the Federal Reserve fill the economy with money through the
citizens from now on won't work? ....Oooookay..., whatever.
> There is no way to retain the economics of the current failing system.
Yeah, which is why my idea changes the only mistake in the existing
system...but you say it won't work, even though you have no idea what
it is since you've already said you haven't even read it. That's not
a high mark of critical thinking. At least those who do think
critically actually read the material they form an opinion on.
Damaeus
Damaeus
> Not a viable plan. There somewhere between 450 and 1000 trillion
> unaccounted for USD (US dollars) which is the cause of the Federal Reserve
> system crash and the Fed is continuing to print money like there's no
> tomorrow, further accelerating the crash.
But the Fed is giving it out by "loaning it" to the government, which
just creates MORE DEBT!!!! If they put the money into the economy
through the citizens, it will NOT create ANY debt, but PREVENT debt.
But fucking Fox News reporter said in more words than this, "....so if
you want to keep your home loans and your auto loans and keep using
credit cards, the government needs to bail out these financial
institutions."
Well who said loans and credit cards were ever supposed to be part of
a healthy economy? She acts like this is something everyone
*wants*... to live out their lives buried in debt. No. That's what
causes problems like we have now. If all money was pumped into the
economy through the people, that would generate the buying that raises
production and employment. By keeping the people out of the money
loop, all they can get is what they have the time to earn, and at the
rate they've been allotted, both of which are limited for most
workers.
With my plan, you don't need that much money, anyway. Just globalize
the whole thing and knock two zeroes off the price of everything.
Damaeus
Damaeus
> The sole reason for the Federal Reserve crash is the people at the bottom of
> the pyramid scheme, aka the American citizens, weren't given enough money to
> support the top of the pyramid.
What? That's kind of hard to do when the reason the people aren't
giving enough money to the pyramid is because they don't have it to
give.
> The Fed can't print enough money to bolster the bottom of the
> pyramid.
That's because the bottom of the pyramid never sees it. It goes
directly from the Fed to the government in the form of MORE NATIONAL
DEBT!!!!
> It will all collapse. Pyramid schemes always do -- that's why they're
> illegal.
Yes. My idea gets rid of the pyramid, and yet you say it won't work.
Instead if just saying mine won't work without even seeing tried, why
don't you come up with an idea of your own?
You're like the one who says, "I don't know what can be done, but your
idea won't work, even if never has been tried before on such a large
scale." Bullshit! You can't *know* that!
Damaeus
Damaeus
> It's very difficult living in America -- the people are so dumbed down and
> infantile.
That's because the Fed doesn't give money to the economy through the
people. Since people feel left out of the loop, they live in a world
in which money is something they only have enough of to survive, not
to gain lavish lifestyles like the ones who hoard money in markets
trying to make it generate more for them. Once you've got survival
out of the way, the only thing left to do is watch TV, mess around
online, use drugs, or have sex.
I never played the stock market simply because I've never been able to
get my hands on enough money to try. I understand it. I just can't
play.
Damaeus
Damaeus
> The 'solution' is to let it fail and stop looking for a solution.
My solution does let it fail as it is run now, and instead of
generating debt by having the Fed loan money to the government, the
Fed fills the economy through the people. That's the most crucial
change.
The elastic currency the Fed insisted upon when it was founded is the
very cause of the problems we're having now. Elastic currency lets
people try to position themselves for the rising and falling of money
markets. With so many people riding the waves, the markets fluctuate
a lot more as time goes on, resulting in the kind of problem we have
now.
By removing the idea of elastic currency, we get money that's used as
a medium of exchange, not as a means to multiply wealth by restricting
the supply of money, which is what creates wage slaves.
That's the funny part about this whole thing. Since I'm not in the
market, this whole thing just makes me laugh. All these people who
tried "financial posturing for maximum gain" are seeing their little
scheme fall apart before their eyes. Their free ride is over, I hope,
and they can contribute more to society than standing on Wall Street
screaming and waving their arms in the air.
Damaeus
Jeff▲Relf
As I see it, America's main problems are:
1. It's fast losing market share, especially in space;
however, perhaps it's not so bad that
other countries are now getting a bigger slice of the pie.
2. Instead of cheaply housing the homeless, saving lives**,
the U.S. spends trillions on healthare, jails,
“ Nation Building ”, “ Insane Mortgages ”, etc.
** homelessness wears on the immune system.
The Black Goat With A Thousand Young
a beady eye, and foamed wildly:
> On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:53:22 -0500, Damaeus wrote:
>
>>Fed loan money
>
> The Fed loans money which doesn't exist. They 'loan' it into existence.
Keep this up. The version of Alexa I'm seeing now is reasonably sensible.
For that matter, you're reasonable, period. GJ, keep it up.
--
________________________________________________________________________
Hail Eris! Cthulhu fhtagn! mhm 29x21; Top Asshole #3; Lits Slut #16
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"Who in their right mind would believe the totally unsubstantiated and
unsupported proposition that all ancient and mediaeval European
historians made everything all up in collusion with each other as part
of a grand pan-European conspiracy spanning nearly 3,000 years to fake
its history when it had none before." -- Naturally, there is no possible
way they could simply have misinterpreted events and old folk tales, and
passed on their misinterpretations, because ancient and mediaeval
historians had insight into advanced physics, chemistry, and many
related disciplines. Right, Aggie? Message-ID:
<AfmdnY9d_rF...@eclipse.net.uk>
"I got my degree from on of the top 3 universities in the UK and top 10
in the world.
"You don't have a clue about science. Biology is not a true science.
Personal opinions are not science." -- Aggie teh cyuntist, in Message
-ID: <SYydncOQTP9sjUzV...@eclipse.net.uk>
"IMBECILE! There is NO in-between. Read the original French. Nostradamus
was an early French psychiatrist. What you think are prophecies are his
case notes." -- Why didn't I see it before, Aggie? Of course! And
Paracelsus was an early physicist, too, right? Message-ID:
<j56dnXNOgNeeO1zV...@eclipse.net.uk>
"Archaeology is NOT history you FOOL!" -- Aggie Teh Scholar. Message-ID:
<v8CdnSOj3ufRP1DV...@eclipse.net.uk>
"You DON'T HAVE A CLUE what mythology is.
"Mythology IS the same thing as history and Gesta Danorum is purely
historical.
"Take your idiotic and ignorant conspiracy theories about the grand
falsification of European history and shove them up your arse where they
came from." -- Argyros Argyrou/Agamemnon, teh Rhodes Scholar, in
Message-ID: <MeidnSdouex...@eclipse.net.uk>
http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/Agamemnon
"Folklore is a 19th century Romanticist movement based on
contemporary popular northern European music."
"The entire concept was concocted by the Brothers Grimm during the
Romanticist literary period and entered the discipline of music in the
following century with the Romanticist musical period after Beethoven."
-- Please send medical bills for any damage to your health caused by the
above two quotes to Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis. Message-ID:
<UNGdnZVRnLb...@eclipse.net.uk>
"Kolofilia between a human and another human is as depraved as fucking
animals." -- Agamemnon, poutso kelftis, just plain doesn't like sex,
apparently. Message-ID:
<asqdneLCt_DZ6e_V...@eclipse.net.uk>
"Roe V Wade has zero bearing on my existence other than it affects it
adversely."
-- Johnny Wentzky never had much truck with "logic". Message-ID:
<V6xNe.27650$XM3....@bignews5.bellsouth.net>
"You are the GOD-DAMNED, IGNORANT LIAR here.
Now, that is not me taking the Lord's name in vain."
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<jljOe.5348$ZD4....@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
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"The whining has just begun." -- John Wentzky, in Message-ID:
<Ie2Qe.8199$wb5....@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
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<RSR3f.23691$5l.1...@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
"Laws count, the US Constitution count more, and we need to have judges
on the bench who are going to Carry Out those laws, not Make Law or
Interpret Law." -- John "Easily" Shocked contradicts his own words on
the overriding importance of society's reluctance to accept
homosexuality, in Message-ID: <brIDe.67062$Qo.12613@fed1read01>
"I heard that you are still trespassing in the USA. If it's black, it
refuses to work and it accuses whites of racism. What a joke.
Look at a map and see where Africa is, bitchboy. What is this GOD DAMNED
NIGGERISH ALLEGIANCE YOU HAVE TO TRYING TO GET WHITE PEOPLE TO HAND OFF
OTHER WHITE PEOPLE TO SOMEONE YOU THINK IS NOT AGAINST YOUR CRIMINAL
ALLEGIANCE??????
Too afraid to tell the truth?
WIMPS!
COWARDS!
LIARS!
MILITANT ASSPRICKS!
LOSERS!
FAILED BULLSHITBOYS WHOSE CANDY HAS NO RED ON IT! YOU KNOW IT TO BE TRUE!
I LICKED THE RED OFF YOUR CANDY BECAUSE YOU ARE YOUR ILK HAVEN'T GOT ANY
FURY!
THAT'S WHY YOU CAN'T BEAT ME VIA ANY LAWFUL MEANS WHATSOEVER! YOU'RE A
NAMBY PAMBY ANTI-USA ASSPRICK!" -- Huge pools of MOLTEN WENTZKY are
being found all over the Carolinas, after his reply to Panama Floyd, in
Message-ID: <qiA3k.2556$Xe....@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
http://www.screedbomb.info/coosn/
Q: Who is eligible for a COOSN?
A: Kookologists with 10 or more verifiable UV points may exchange these
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Gerald C. Newton is a wife-beating fuckhead.
http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/G-Dolf
John Baker
wrote:
>I'm here to tell you and to help you realize the world doesn't
>give a fuck about you or your problems. Now the sooner you
>depart from this world, the better for you or everyone!
>FJ
<PLONK!>
>
Damaeus
<ancien...@shoggoths.rule> posted on Sun, 21 Sep 2008 07:32:11 GMT:
> On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 17:00:33 +0400, www.freedomtofascism.com fixed me with
> a beady eye, and foamed wildly:
> > On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:53:22 -0500, Damaeus wrote:
> >
> >>Fed loan money
> >
> > The Fed loans money which doesn't exist. They 'loan' it into existence.
AH! Well, I believe that, too, and have said exactly that in almost
every post! Why do you argue with me about it in other posts, then,
and you suddenly agree with me here??!!?? Besides, I've heard Aaron
Russo on Coast to Coast AM. I've got no beef with him or your
website. I don't say I agree with all of it, but I damned sure like
the work you guys do. Shit! What the hell do you argue with *me*
for???
> Keep this up. The version of Alexa I'm seeing now is reasonably sensible.
> For that matter, you're reasonable, period. GJ, keep it up.
What's the big hooties with that program? I used it a loooong time
ago when it first came out, but didn't do much with it.
Damaeus
Damaeus
Yes, I know. With more money coming in from the bottom up, crime
would go away because the conditions that stimulate crime (lack of
enough money) would be gone. Having more money, people can eat
healthy food instead of Smack Ramen and stay out of the doctor's
offices, then health insurance rates come down. Homelessness goes
away because homeless people deserve to be included in society and to
have the money to participate just like anyone else. Instead of
homeless people with nobody to talk to, we have very wise,
interesting, eccentric people living in homes and knowing they live in
a world that cares about them and is ready for a new era of
philosophers and artisans.
Damaeus
Edward Green
> In news:sci.physics, Jeff?Relf <Jeff_R...@Seattle.Invalid> posted on
I found a website where some PC guy gives a homeless guy his own
"blog": IOW, the facilitator records some wisdom of the homeless guy,
and puts out some on the net from time to time.
Problem is, even from the most charmingly eccentric homeless guy,
"wisdom" is kind of scarce. You can tell that the subject is trying
to live up to being interesting, but homelessness wears on more than
the immune system -- it wears on the psyche. You don't build
interesting thoughts sitting on the street all day, cadging for
quarters.
Jeff▲Relf
Are homeless people less human ? should we “ harvest ” them ?
^@%>---*=#
"Jeff▲Relf" <Jeff...@Seattle.Invalid> wrote in message
news:Jeff...@Seattle.2008_Sep.21|11.14am|y...
> Homeless people lack “ wisdom ” compared to .. to whom ? Bush ?
> Are homeless people less human ? should we “ harvest ” them ?
let them eat each other
tj Frazir
yakey
Chiun
> "Jeff▲Relf" <Jeff_R...@Seattle.Invalid> wrote in message
****SPV....Those that serve the homeless are very funny. Funny
because the rich are the sinners and the poor are the Saintly. If you
are off the wheel then you will be like Buddha, a beggar, a wanderer.
They think there is something wrong in not being greedy because that
is what everyone that is rich really is. They are greedy.
So you think the homeless are what? They should eat each other.
Jesus said, "That which you do unto the least of me you do unto me."
I wonder what he meant?
Jeff▲Relf
“ Check ot the old abandoned junkyard in washington
on a river island yakey ”.
What junkyard ? What's there ? What does “ yakey ” mean ? Yakima ?
There are countless rivers with islands in them.
^@%>---*=#
"Chiun" <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d99a80ee-15e1-4834...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
christ also said let the dead bury
the dead which is analgous to
letting the homeless eat the homeless.
it is indeed hilarious how you put your
laziness and inability to hold a job up
as a type of nobility and antithesis to
greed.
you apparently get sto0pider with
each passing second.
Reverend Al
> On Sep 21, 12:22 pm, "^@%>---*=#" <yom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "Jeff▲Relf" <Jeff_R...@Seattle.Invalid> wrote in message
>>
>> news:Jeff...@Seattle.2008_Sep.21|11.14am|y...
>>
>> > Homeless people lack " wisdom " compared to .. to whom ? Bush ?
>> > Are homeless people less human ? should we " harvest " them ?
>>
>> let them eat each other
>
> ****SPV....Those that serve the homeless are very funny. Funny
> because the rich are the sinners and the poor are the Saintly. If you
> are off the wheel then you will be like Buddha, a beggar, a wanderer.
Gautama gave up that crap because it prevented his enlightenment. You're just a
beginner who hasn't learned the lessons.
^@%>---*=#
"Chiun" <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d99a80ee-15e1-4834...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
you mean you laugh at those you
cheat like the gummint for your
welfare check
Funny
> because the rich are the sinners and the poor are the Saintly.
try saying something real for
a change instead of this phony
substatiation for your inability
to even support yourself.
If you
> are off the wheel then you will be like Buddha, a beggar, a wanderer.
> They think there is something wrong in not being greedy because that
> is what everyone that is rich really is. They are greedy.
you're greedy for your monthly
welfare check. there's no difference.
> So you think the homeless are what? They should eat each other.
> Jesus said, "That which you do unto the least of me you do unto me."
>
> I wonder what he meant?
i'll just bet
Sparky Tux
> "Jeff▲Relf" <Jeff_R...@Seattle.Invalid> wrote in message
SHUT UP ALL OF YOU!
www.freedomtofascism.com
wrote:
>On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:18:10 +0000, DuhIdiot <jmSasP...@windstream.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!uns-out.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!pc02.usenetserver.com!ALLTEL.NET-a2kHrUvQQWlmc!not-for-mail
>>Newsgroups: alt.alien.research,alt.atheism,alt.paranormal.crop-circles,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
>>Subject: Re: Non-existent Jesus Ain't Coming Back
>>From: DuhIdiot <jmSasP...@windstream.net>
>>References: <53502c80-150a-475b...@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com> <sdsbd4p49ideud113...@4ax.com> <50b0q5...@75-104-202-36.cust.wildblue.net> <ktncd4hkt509b43if...@4ax.com> <mjk0q5...@75-104-202-36.cust.wildblue.net> <galtfk$is0$1...@austar-news.austar.net.au> <6dc2q5-...@75-104-202-36.cust.wildblue.net> <Xns9B1A8C9FBEE23jm...@208.49.80.253> <jd4fd4tcaa4m6uokg...@4ax.com>
>>Organization: Your Company
>>Message-ID: <Xns9B1AB45804201jm...@208.49.80.253>
>>Followup-To: alt.atheism
>>User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25
>>X-Complaints-To: ab...@usenetserver.com
>>Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:18:10 +0000
>>Lines: 35
>>X-Trace: 8296448ced112c7b4d9d013111
>>Bytes: 2636
>>X-Original-Bytes: 2593
>>Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.alien.research:421856 alt.atheism:5277374 alt.paranormal.crop-circles:113794 alt.alien.visitors:635657 sci.skeptic:837011
>>
>>www.freedomtofascism.com, on 22 Sep 2008, in alt.atheism, decided this
>>was a worthy use of a keyboard:
>>
>>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:23:56 +0000, DuhIdiot
>>> <jmSasP...@windstream.net> wrote:
>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
given half of Earth's atmosphere was blown away in
1999.
Oh, I have *got* to hear how you think that happened! Spill it!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
one of the poles pointing at the sun, the Earth ceasing to rotate,
and the Earth falling into the Sun by December? Will "winter" involve
some new sense of "extreme cold" where all the lead around you is liquid
but most of the iron is still solid?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Damaeus
on Sun, 21 Sep 2008 08:53:15 -0700 (PDT):
> Problem is, even from the most charmingly eccentric homeless guy,
> "wisdom" is kind of scarce. You can tell that the subject is trying
> to live up to being interesting, but homelessness wears on more than
> the immune system -- it wears on the psyche. You don't build
> interesting thoughts sitting on the street all day, cadging for
> quarters.
Not all of them. Some of them are really lost in their worlds, but
some of them are wiser than you'd imagine. And by wisdom, I mean a
wisdom of a higher order of living life than what people do now.
Damaeus
Snarky
arrogant assertions, erroneous presuppositions, and/or obfuscations:
> On Sep 21, 2:22 pm, "^@%>---*=#" wrote:
>> "Jeff▲Relf" wrote...
>>
>> > Homeless people lack " wisdom " compared to .. to whom ? Bush ? Are
>> > homeless people less human ? should we " harvest " them ?
>>
>> let them eat each other
>
> SHUT UP ALL OF YOU!
You seem upset.
--
________________________________________________________________________
Hail Eris! mhm 29x21; TM#5; Anonymous Psycho Criminal #18
TEH USENETS BULLIE
http://www.runescape.com/
Join my RuneScape clan!
http://z11.invisionfree.com/Holy_Pretzel_Cabal/index.php
Full name of clan: Cabal of the Holy International Discordian Internet
And Usenet Terrorist Pretzel
Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle
Trainer of PorchMonkey4Life
http://www.screedbomb.info/porchie/
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2008
Hammer of Thor, July 2008
Hey, Aggie! Does this sound familiar?
Message-ID: <nursc4tjdsh8tpsdp...@4ax.com>
"Marcella proves once again that she's an ignorant racist bigot." -- OK,
what race are Greeks, again? Aggie's so much more knowledgeable than I
about that sort of thing. Message-ID:
<O-ednWCl9cD...@eclipse.net.uk>
"It could be several." -- Aggie answers marc_CH's question about which
drugs Jamaican athletes such as Powell and Bolt have been taking.
Message-ID: <aKydne4RQpoPFFnV...@eclipse.net.uk>
"Only athletes on drugs win meddles. [...]
"And the funny thing is the Greek weightlifters were not winning meddles
even while on drugs. Clearly every single weightlifter that beat a Greek
weightlifter was taking more drugs than they were." -- Yeah, that's the
ticket, Aggie! Message-ID:
<c_2dnTTpk7xBa17V...@eclipse.net.uk>
"Do Usenet posters on drugs not know how to spell 'medals'?" -- They
really don't, marc_CH. Message-ID:
<6iifvaF...@mid.individual.net>
"Not supporting me is equivalent to forfeiting your own rights." --
John D. Wentzky: Warrior For Your Freedumb! Message-ID:
<33km2419sg6fnq3sh...@4ax.com>
"You cognatatively challenged fool!" -- According to Agamemnon, Stephen
Wilson is, apparently, highly ignorant about cognates, and so is anyone
who dares to disagree with him, in Message-ID:
<Jvidnfyewe883sjV...@eclipse.net.uk>
"Is it still necrophilia if I'm conscious?" -- Owen Harper, "Dead Man
Walking", Torchwood (20/207)
Jeff▲Relf
Trillions and Trillions are being wasted, dollars.
Our slice of the global pie is getting ever smaller, and
we're becoming a community of un/under-employed high-tech artisans.
Damaeus
> It's very difficult living in America -- the people are so dumbed
> down and infantile. They only thing they know about is getting
> laid and getting paid.
First, I want to say, in case you didn't see it in the other message,
I've heard of Aaron Russo and I've heard him on Coast to Coast AM, and
I love his work. I'm also aware of his passing. I'm not saying I
agree with 100% of the conclusions he reached about human beings, but
I like the research a lot. It expands the imagination and gives one
more angles to think about when solving problems.
As for people seeming to be dumbed down, I don't think they're dumb.
They know what the problem is: not enough money to spend on the things
they need. The reason the *seem* dumb is because so much of their
time is spent working and trying to keep the bills paid that they go
home in a mental fog and collapse, physically exhausted from working
so much. That causes mental fatigue, too, as the mind and body just
want to rest.
Definitely, the dumbness about how the system works is there, but I
can't blame the people who haven't taken the time to research it. I
have done the research, but I've done this my whole life, and I always
assumed everyone enjoyed getting online, researching, and learning
about how the world works, and how to make it work better. I just
never realized that hardly anybody I knew was doing the things with
their free time that I was doing.
The people I knew always wanted to talk about what was going on in
their lives and in their personal relationships, and that was always
boring conversation to me. So I'd try to steer the topic toward
science, philosophy, spirituality, or anything besides hearing about
his relationship with people I didn't even know or have a genuine
desire to know. But anytime the conversation left their personal
lives, I'd present some idea I have for discussion, and then timing
always bit me. Someone would wander in randomly and disrupt the whole
conversation before it became philosophical or even interesting in any
way.
I guess that's why I'm so willing to come onto usenet and e-mail
discussions and just pour it all out here. Getting people to share
themselves more deeply has been a most difficult challenge, all while
I've expressed the possible fun of being given a hard-on, being
dressed up like a boy scout in little hiking shorts, and being
confined to a car seat as you pass through the drive-through at
McDonald's. You can ask for your Happy Meal, personally.
> You can't even have a conversation with the average American --
> they know next to nothing, unless you want to talk about their
> sex lives.
Ah, yes! LOL What I expanded on above. People do seem willing to
talk about their sex lives. All I can do is talk about masturbation.
> Americans are so dumbed down by decades of IQ lowering chemicals,
> like fluoride, prescription drugs, tainted vaccinations,
> television and propaganda that they can't even conceptualize
> their circumstances.
>
> Most Americans have a less than 8th grade education that's why
> they can't find Iraq on a map.
Yes, they had to stop going to school so they could work at a catfish
restaurant bussing tables to keep the heater going in the winter.
> Americans are so dumbed down they're fearful of anyone who isn't
> dumbed down. Americans are so stupid they can't even run
> European owned corporations -- they fire anyone who has any
> intelligence and hire only those who are truly stupid.
Or those who know how to act stupid and get away with it.
Damaeus
Damaeus
> Their European corporate bosses' sole source of income is selling their
> products to Americans. So what do the Americans do in order to 'assure'
> corporate profits? They outsource American jobs to foreign countries so
> Americans don't have any income to buy the corporate wares!
Not only that, but Americans have no more time available for working
to earn any more income at the wages they're expected to earn money
*at*. That they expect us to do our part to grow the economy, when
all we can do to survive is bury ourselves in debt is preposterous!
They need a sanity adjustment seminar, badly!
Damaeus
Damaeus
21 Sep 2008 15:03:32 -0400:
> It is indeed hilarious how you put your laziness and inability to
> hold a job up as a type of nobility and antithesis to greed.
It's not an "inability to hold up a job". It's trying to keep a job
in an economy where fewer payroll dollars results layoffs. And I
don't think it's about greed as much as it's about not knowing how to
fix it, and/or not being willing to accept that "giving" money to
people is the only thing that will straighten out the economy, as well
as giving one currency its face value and using it.
Damaeus
Uncle Vic
> I'm here to tell you and to help you realize the world doesn't
> give a fuck about you or your problems.
This is news? You're posting to a NEWS group. We demand NEWS!
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Separator of Church and Reason.
Convicted by Earthquack.
Sparky Tux
what we need is a good grassroots uprising of self-sufficient people
Jeff▲Relf
How many hours are you working ? 2 or 3 thousand per year ?
I live in the heart of Seattle, just above the Univ. of Washington.
If you're not picky about what you eat, you can eat for free here.
If you make less than a thousand dollars per month, as I do,
you can get food stamps. I don't drink but, if I did,
I'd drink for fee .. because I'd make my own hooch using free food.
I hand-roll my own cigarettes using paper/tobacco bought online,
I'm paying about 30 cents for a “ pack ” of 20 thin cigs.
It's 3 dollars for a 6-pack of piezoelectric lighters.
Like a lot of coders .. artists, really .. I'm under-employed.
Nevertheless, I'm able to pay all my expenses ( rent, phone, etc. ),
for me and mine, by working just a few hours per year.
^@%>---*=#
"Damaeus" <dam...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:144ed457bmomli12d...@4ax.com...
> In news:sci.physics, "^@%>---*=#" <yom...@hotmail.com> posted on Sun,
> 21 Sep 2008 15:03:32 -0400:
>
>> It is indeed hilarious how you put your laziness and inability to
>> hold a job up as a type of nobility and antithesis to greed.
>
> It's not an "inability to hold up a job".
you obviously don't know our go0ro0 [altcon4]
> It's trying to keep a job
> in an economy where fewer payroll dollars results layoffs. And I
> don't think it's about greed as much as it's about not knowing how to
> fix it, and/or not being willing to accept that "giving" money to
> people is the only thing that will straighten out the economy, as well
> as giving one currency its face value and using it.
what page are you on ?
tj Frazir
People that work for $ 12 hour cant pay $ 3000 month rent. They live
in cars.
Korea ,,we may have come up with n upside down box with inner walls .
It could be very cost effective to float concrete boxes with inside
walls 1500 x 1000 feet and 130 feet deep and then flood it in shallow
water and biuld a condo tower on it.
Put dirt on it grow grass ..biuld an instant island. yet so cost
effective .
7 bucks ton . 600,000 ton .
Placed in NYNY .
Jeff▲Relf
I doubt they'd allow artificial islands.
Cheaper apartments are badly needed here in Seattle,
too much money is wasted on Insane Mortgages and Nation Building.
Homelessness wears on the immune system, raising health-care costs.
Uncle Vic
>
> "Uncle Vic" <add...@withheld.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9B20D118...@216.196.97.131...
>> One fine day in alt.atheism, "Fartass Jewad" <FJe...@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm here to tell you and to help you realize the world doesn't
>>> give a fuck about you or your problems.
>>
>> This is news? You're posting to a NEWS group. We demand NEWS!
>
>
> That's the news!
> Do you want me to repost it?
> FJ
>
>
>
No, I read it the first time. However...
I don't know who you're responding to, or what you were responding to. You
might as well have been speaking in tongues. Next time, could you at least
quote some text?
Uncle Vic
>
> "John Baker" <nu...@bizniz.net> wrote in message
> news:n08cd4lu5uft8a48f...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:40:50 -0700, "Fartass Jewad" <FJe...@msn.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I'm here to tell you and to help you realize the world doesn't
>>>give a fuck about you or your problems. Now the sooner you
>>>depart from this world, the better for you or everyone!
>>>FJ
>>
>>
>> <PLONK!>
>
> Brimg it om bitch, bring it on!
> FJ
>
>
>
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/godzilla.htm
Damaeus
on Sun, 21 Sep 2008 20:43:52 -0700 (PDT):
> what we need is a good grassroots uprising of self-sufficient people
People would be self-sufficient if given the means to partake of what
other people have produced. One man isn't sufficient to build a
skyscraper, and one man isn't sufficient to run a neighborhood or a
house, or that matter. He needs things in the house which are built
by other people. And the people who built what he needs have some use
for what *he* does for a living.
We can't be self-sufficient if the means to purchase what we need to
live is so tightly controlled. We can't build the economy buying the
lifestyle of Faye Dunaway when we only have enough money to live like
Grizzly Adams.
Damaeus
Damaeus
22 Sep 2008 00:17:18 -0400:
> "Damaeus" <dam...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:144ed457bmomli12d...@4ax.com...
> > It's trying to keep a job in an economy where fewer payroll
> > dollars results layoffs. And I don't think it's about greed as
> > much as it's about not knowing how to fix it, and/or not being
> > willing to accept that "giving" money to people is the only thing
> > that will straighten out the economy, as well as giving one
> > currency its face value and using it.
>
> what page are you on ?
Many. I just flip through them more quickly than most writers, and
wright about vast topics with condensed, ambigiuous language.
Damaeus
dead
> In news:sci.physics, Sparky Tux <juurgenizixexo...@gmail.com> posted
you ain't met the
bush tucker man
dead
> "Jeff▲Relf" <Jeff_R...@Seattle.Invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:Jeff...@Seattle.2008_Sep.21|11.14am|y...
>
> > Are homeless people less human ? should we " harvest " them ?
>
> let them eat each other
none'a this leeching shit
let them eat themselves.
§ñühwØ£f
the following claims :
And Bill Gates wants even more H1B visas so folks from India can come
take your job, mate.
--
"Those who can make you believe absurdities,
can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/21-1
Firelock
> In news:sci.physics, Sparky Tux <juurgenizixexo...@gmail.com> posted
> on Sun, 21 Sep 2008 20:43:52 -0700 (PDT):
>
> > what we need is a good grassroots uprising of self-sufficient people
>
> People would be self-sufficient if given the means
Damaeus, do you know what "self-sufficient" means?
You seem to have the idea that "someone gives you
stuff" is part of it, so I don't think the words you're
using mean what you think they mean.
--
Walt
^@%>---*=#
"Sparky Tux" <juurgeni...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2cb3e4a8-ae0e-4eee...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
so you want the homeless to starve ?
rat bastard !!!
Edward Green
> ... even from the most charmingly eccentric homeless guy,
> "wisdom" is kind of scarce. You can tell that the subject is trying
> to live up to being interesting, but homelessness wears on more than
> the immune system -- it wears on the psyche. You don't build
> interesting thoughts sitting on the street all day, cadging for
> quarters.-
On Sep 21, 2:14 pm, Jeff▲Relf <Jeff_R...@Seattle.Invalid> wrote:
> Homeless people lack " wisdom " compared to .. to whom ? Bush ?
> Are homeless people less human ? should we " harvest " them ?
I think a dispassionate observer would find your reaction a bit over
the top. How did we get from "homelessness wears down the mind, not
just the body" to "less than human, and should be harvested"???
Perhaps you feel personally offended, because you consider yourself
homeless. You are atypical, Jeff. You're more like a hippy than a
homeless person -- you still have some support structures, and a roof
over your head (last I read), but you are a minimalist. You are
"homeless" as a form of social protest against a divorce settlement,
versus the more usual mental illness or drug usage etiology -- AFAIK.
Benj
> People would be self-sufficient if given the means to partake of what
> other people have produced. One man isn't sufficient to build a
> skyscraper, and one man isn't sufficient to run a neighborhood or a
> house, or that matter. He needs things in the house which are built
> by other people. And the people who built what he needs have some use
> for what *he* does for a living.
Oh Damaeus! What a beautiful left-wing thought! It's so
wonderfully... um... utopian!
Two little problems here. The people who built the skyscraper don't
have a whole lot of need for the "activities" of some scroungy jerk
sucking Red Bull under a bridge smashed out of his mind.
And the other problem is your theories have been pretty well tested in
the practical world and here's the bad news: The Union of Soviet
Socialist Republics isn't just "sleeping", It crashed and burned by
reason of the failure of the very wonderful ideas you so love.
> We can't be self-sufficient if the means to purchase what we need to
> live is so tightly controlled. We can't build the economy buying the
> lifestyle of Faye Dunaway when we only have enough money to live like
> Grizzly Adams.
Being Robinhood and stealing from the "rich" at gunpoint to give to
the "poor" does little but waste the resources of the rich. They might
as well waste it on the lifestyle of Faye Dunaway where they at least
get to have some advertising value out of it. Stealing money to
provide the "poor" with destructive tools (beer, wine, booze,
cigarettes, pot, other drugs, etc.) sure isn't doing anything to
promote the overall human condition that a person could be proud of.
Obviously you need to climb down from your silk-draped Ivory tower and
take a little trip with me down to the camp under the bridge just down
the street from where I live.
The path to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Jeff▲Relf
while that's true, “ What doesn't kill me, makes me stronger. ”
is also true.
I'm an under-employed programmer who could easily become unemployed;
but my sympathy for the homeless comes mainly from the homeless youth
I've met/helped over the years .. each one more “ wise** ” than you.
** i.e. they have skills I admire, skills you don't have.
By the way, at this point, I'm just addicted to:
“ having lots of free-time ” .. to being a “ starving artist ”.
It's not “ a form of social protest against a divorce settlement ”.
I didn't want to lose my wife and kids, back in 1988;
but, looking back, I see it was “ for the best ”.
Googling my ex and the man she divorced me for,
I see that they're still together and
living in the very nicest part of Sandy**, Utah.
**:
just below Salt Lake City, up high on the mountain,
at the mouth of the Little Cottonwood Canyon.
Benj
> Money was never meant to have worth. It was meant to be used as a
> medium of exchange so I won't have to settle for your coonskin hat for
> my leather boots. The only reason money has any value is because of
> the control of it, just like mother nature controls the supply of
> gold, giving it its value.
Oh Damaeus! What a totally WONDERFUL complete misunderstanding of
economics and money!
Money was originally a medium of exchange alright, but it represented
VALUE. Say as gold represents value not through natures "control" of
the amount of it but rather by it's value (shiny, doesn't corrode,
conducts electricity etc.) as an OBJECT. So you can use a gold coin to
trade a coonskin cap for boots. The seller figures that he can either
trade the gold for the cap later or if all else fails make jewelry out
of the coin. But then people began to notice that gold was heavy. So
they then began to trade warehouse slips granting ownership of the
gold instead of the gold itself. Hence "paper" money was born. Note
that this "money" is intrinsically worthless as it is just paper. Note
too that it is the OPPOSITE of wealth in that GOLD is wealth since it
is a valuable object. These deeds to gold on the other hand are only a
promise to deliver the gold and is only the gold itself once you
demand payment for the deed and IF they actually honor it.
And then we come to the crux of the matter, don't we? Humans being
what they are, someone figured out that if all that gold behind
"money" is just sitting in the warehouse somewhere (Ft. Knox) with few
actually demanding ownership of the metal listed in the deed, then
really someone really ought to steal it since nobody would notice.
And indeed that has occurred. So what with the PRIVATE "federal
reserve corp" pulling off not only THIS theft but in addition making
EVERY dollar put into circulation by the government a dollar of DEBT
with interest paid to them, The whole system of "money" is pretty much
worthless, although it is still stealing from everyone holding
dollars. It's not that a pound of grated cheese is worth $5.25. It's
that $5.25 is now only worth a pound of cheese (or gallon of
gasoline). Back in 1960 $5.25 bought 21 gallons of gasoline. So in
essence 20 gallons of gasoline have been stolen from you. You get to
keep one gallon.
It's all SO simple yet, everyone allows it to go on. Everyone buys the
hippie philosophy of "live for today" and has no problem with paying
double for anything they buy (because of interest) because they simply
"can't wait" until they actually save the money for it. Nobody notices
that every time the price of gasoline doubles all your money no matter
whether it's in the bank or under the mattress has just had half of it
stolen. Let's face it. The rule is that the Rich and Smart have a
sacred duty to take anything of value held by the poor and stupid.
And you "Damaeus" are a wonderful, caring person, but there is just
one little minor problem:
You are a moron.
How about you spend a little effort to "wise up"?
DuhIdiot
keyboard:
<snip>
> Back in 1960 $5.25 bought 21 gallons of gasoline. So in
> essence 20 gallons of gasoline have been stolen from you. You get to
> keep one gallon.
Giving some pretty short shrift to the matter of changing wages, aren't
you?
<snip>
--
J. B. Mashburn, the sad left tail of the bell curve
alt.atheist #2295, http://questioner.www2.50megs.com/list1.html
EAC Chief Of Maintenance for God's cloaking device - 14 billion years and
not one glitch!
"What a day, if you can look it in the face and hold your vomit." - Faith
No More
No S-P-A-M in my email.
Jeff▲Relf
I thought “ Motzarella.ORG ” doesn't carry the newsgroups you posted to.
I've already done “ the cubicle thing ”;
the Asians can have it, as far as I'm concerned,
they're not “ taking My job ”, I do gigs for the Russians.
I work for a Univ. of Wash. professor who does jobs for ABA.COM,
who, in turn, is doing gigs for ANE.RU;
however, I don't yet know how much work I'll be getting there.
From the looks of it, I'll be targeting IE7 and FireFox soon.
I have FireFox 3, Windows Vista Ultimate, Office 2007 Ultimate,
Visual Studio 2008 Standard Edition ( VC++ 9 ), etc.
There are lots of off-the-shelf newsreaders I could use:
Google Groups, Windows Live Mail, 40tude Dialog, Pan, SLRN, etc.;
but I Much prefer my handrolled newsreader, X.EXE.
Outside of my list of “ Watched ” nyms, I “ Muffle ” all nyms;
so, normally**, I don't see more than the 3 most recent posts per nym.
**:
I see All replies to me, of course, and
I Always see the “ Heritage ”, e.g. the parent post; like this:
“ JeffRelf.F-M.FM/UnVisted.PNG ”.
Damaeus
Mon, 22 Sep 2008 07:57:13 -0700 (PDT):
Well, the point I'm making is that the way the system is set up now,
they're expecting all the people at the lowest rungs of the societal
ladder to live their lives under these conditions:
- Trade their time for a set amount of money per hour
- get excited when interest rates come down, get loans, buy stuff
- Earn just enough money to survive and pay debts, with interest
- have no extra cash to spend on luxuries
- take the blame and be called stupid when the economy flops
After the economy flops:
- sales drop, payroll gets cut, people get sent home early
- after hours are cut, paychecks are smaller, less money for food
- try to pay creditors, but hunger becomes more powerful
- can't pay bills, debtors don't care, want money anyway
- time passes, financial crisis looms, bad debts blamed
- government bails out banks
- banks still want money from debtors
- problem still exists that caused financial crisis, another likely
That's the fact of life for service workers: retail clerks, fast food
workers, etc... jobs that need real people working them. Is it right
for them to have to live their lives like that?
Do you see the problem here? There are *LOTS* of workers who have
lots of things they could spend money on. If the Fed pipes money into
the economy through those people, they *will* spend it. It *will*
raise sales. It *will* raise production. It *will* generate taxes.
It *will* raise the GDP, and with more Americans building their own
stuff, we get QUALITY again, and not crap from China. Then our
high-quality American products become popular worldwide, then our GNP
goes up.
How you can't see that is beyond me. It's so simply beautiful that it
makes me cry when I see others continue to be tortured with what the
current financial system is doing to people!
Damaeus
--
Damaeus - Damon M.
Jeff▲Relf
I was thinking of “ Mozilla.ORG ”.
Jeff▲Relf
not more food, not more jail/hospital-time.
Society would actually save money if they did that;
instead they waste trillions and trillions on
insane mortgages and “ nation building ”.
Douglas Berry
carved the following into the hard stone of alt.atheism
>while that's true, “ What doesn't kill me, makes me stronger. ”
>is also true.
I'm sorry, but why the fuck do you think any of us care?
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Jason Gastrich is praying for me on 8 January 2011
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the
source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as
good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein
Tim McGaughy
> The homeless need cheaper, better-supervised apartments ..
> not more food, not more jail/hospital-time.
The homeless need a fucking job.
Once they're earning money, they can decide for themselves whether
they're tired of their cardboard boxes.
Jeff▲Relf
^@%>---*=#
The Black Goat With A Thousand Young
eye, and foamed wildly:
> Jeff▲Relf wrote:
>> The homeless need cheaper, better-supervised apartments .. not more
>> food, not more jail/hospital-time.
>
> The homeless need a fucking job.
What, like with that up-and-comer AIG, perhaps?
> Once they're earning money, they can decide for themselves whether they're
> tired of their cardboard boxes.
Can't get a job if you're living in a cardboard box. Not allowed. Well,
maybe a cash-only job, but that's by the day. Otherwise, you need a
fixed address.
--
________________________________________________________________________
Hail Eris! Cthulhu fhtagn! mhm 29x21; Top Asshole #3; Lits Slut #16
Chas. E. Pemberton; <-- Canadian meddling in internal American affairs,
same as America in Iraq
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COOSN-029-06-71069; Usenet Ruiner #5; Official Chung Demon
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Anonymous Psycho Criminal #18
Pierre Salinger Memorial Hook, Line & Sinker, June 2008
Hammer of Thor, July 2008
"Life size models of Cthulhu, on sale now!"
"Who in their right mind would believe the totally unsubstantiated and
unsupported proposition that all ancient and mediaeval European
historians made everything all up in collusion with each other as part
of a grand pan-European conspiracy spanning nearly 3,000 years to fake
its history when it had none before." -- Naturally, there is no possible
way they could simply have misinterpreted events and old folk tales, and
passed on their misinterpretations, because ancient and mediaeval
historians had insight into advanced physics, chemistry, and many
related disciplines. Right, Aggie? Message-ID:
<AfmdnY9d_rF...@eclipse.net.uk>
"I got my degree from on of the top 3 universities in the UK and top 10
in the world.
"You don't have a clue about science. Biology is not a true science.
Personal opinions are not science." -- Aggie teh cyuntist, in Message
-ID: <SYydncOQTP9sjUzV...@eclipse.net.uk>
"IMBECILE! There is NO in-between. Read the original French. Nostradamus
was an early French psychiatrist. What you think are prophecies are his
case notes." -- Why didn't I see it before, Aggie? Of course! And
Paracelsus was an early physicist, too, right? Message-ID:
<j56dnXNOgNeeO1zV...@eclipse.net.uk>
"Archaeology is NOT history you FOOL!" -- Aggie Teh Scholar. Message-ID:
<v8CdnSOj3ufRP1DV...@eclipse.net.uk>
"You DON'T HAVE A CLUE what mythology is.
"Mythology IS the same thing as history and Gesta Danorum is purely
historical.
"Take your idiotic and ignorant conspiracy theories about the grand
falsification of European history and shove them up your arse where they
came from." -- Argyros Argyrou/Agamemnon, teh Rhodes Scholar, in
Message-ID: <MeidnSdouex...@eclipse.net.uk>
http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/Agamemnon
"Folklore is a 19th century Romanticist movement based on
contemporary popular northern European music."
"The entire concept was concocted by the Brothers Grimm during the
Romanticist literary period and entered the discipline of music in the
following century with the Romanticist musical period after Beethoven."
-- Please send medical bills for any damage to your health caused by the
above two quotes to Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis. Message-ID:
<UNGdnZVRnLb...@eclipse.net.uk>
"Kolofilia between a human and another human is as depraved as fucking
animals." -- Agamemnon, poutso kelftis, just plain doesn't like sex,
apparently. Message-ID:
<asqdneLCt_DZ6e_V...@eclipse.net.uk>
"Roe V Wade has zero bearing on my existence other than it affects it
adversely."
-- Johnny Wentzky never had much truck with "logic". Message-ID:
<V6xNe.27650$XM3....@bignews5.bellsouth.net>
"You are the GOD-DAMNED, IGNORANT LIAR here.
Now, that is not me taking the Lord's name in vain."
-- John Wentzky: Living proof of the Death of Irony, in Message-ID:
<jljOe.5348$ZD4....@bignews3.bellsouth.net>
"For the most part, morality is universal." -- John "Easily" Shocked
"The whining has just begun." -- John Wentzky, in Message-ID:
<Ie2Qe.8199$wb5....@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
"Gay men deserve to die." -- John Wentzky, in Message-ID:
<RSR3f.23691$5l.1...@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
"Laws count, the US Constitution count more, and we need to have judges
on the bench who are going to Carry Out those laws, not Make Law or
Interpret Law." -- John "Easily" Shocked contradicts his own words on
the overriding importance of society's reluctance to accept
homosexuality, in Message-ID: <brIDe.67062$Qo.12613@fed1read01>
"I heard that you are still trespassing in the USA. If it's black, it
refuses to work and it accuses whites of racism. What a joke.
Look at a map and see where Africa is, bitchboy. What is this GOD DAMNED
NIGGERISH ALLEGIANCE YOU HAVE TO TRYING TO GET WHITE PEOPLE TO HAND OFF
OTHER WHITE PEOPLE TO SOMEONE YOU THINK IS NOT AGAINST YOUR CRIMINAL
ALLEGIANCE??????
Too afraid to tell the truth?
WIMPS!
COWARDS!
LIARS!
MILITANT ASSPRICKS!
LOSERS!
FAILED BULLSHITBOYS WHOSE CANDY HAS NO RED ON IT! YOU KNOW IT TO BE TRUE!
I LICKED THE RED OFF YOUR CANDY BECAUSE YOU ARE YOUR ILK HAVEN'T GOT ANY
FURY!
THAT'S WHY YOU CAN'T BEAT ME VIA ANY LAWFUL MEANS WHATSOEVER! YOU'RE A
NAMBY PAMBY ANTI-USA ASSPRICK!" -- Huge pools of MOLTEN WENTZKY are
being found all over the Carolinas, after his reply to Panama Floyd, in
Message-ID: <qiA3k.2556$Xe....@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
http://www.screedbomb.info/coosn/
Q: Who is eligible for a COOSN?
A: Kookologists with 10 or more verifiable UV points may exchange these
points for a Cabal Obsidian Order Sombrero Number.
Q: Who is *not* eligible for a COOSN?
A: Certified net.kooks; notorious net.cretins; terminally clueless
fuckwits; previous winners of kook-awards, unless an official pardon has
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Q: How do I apply for a COOSN?
A: Make a Usenet post to alt.usenet.kooks (crossposting to your favourite
newsgroups is acceptable); to ensure that the FNVW actually sees your
request, try to use either of the following formats for the subject line:
[COOSN Application] Your name (or best known handle) here
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Please provide a list of 10 UV points - along with verifiable evidence for
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A: Yes, but the proposer should supply a verifiable list of 10 UV points
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Q: What happens if my Sombrero Number application is refused by the FNVW?
A: The Office of Darth Bawl is always looking for new candidates. Nuff
said.
Q: What are "UV points"?
1. Threats of violence, especially death. (one point per kook)
2. Lists, i.e. *real* lists, not just mentions of two or three names in
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Gerald C. Newton is a wife-beating fuckhead.
http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/G-Dolf
Damaeus
2008 12:27:03 -0700 (PDT):
> On Sep 19, 6:58 pm, Damaeus <dama...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Money was never meant to have worth. It was meant to be used as a
> > medium of exchange so I won't have to settle for your coonskin hat for
> > my leather boots. The only reason money has any value is because of
> > the control of it, just like mother nature controls the supply of
> > gold, giving it its value.
>
> Oh Damaeus! What a totally WONDERFUL complete misunderstanding
> of economics and money!
[...]
> So what with the PRIVATE "federal reserve corp" pulling off not
> only THIS theft but in addition making EVERY dollar put into
> circulation by the government a dollar of DEBT with interest paid
> to them,
Okay, you say I don't understand money and economics. Yet what is the
difference between what you just wrote there, and what I wrote, as
follows:
> - The Federal Reserve currently pipes money into the economy
> - through channels that cause inflation and vast differences
> - between the rich and poor.
Now, you called me a moron at the end of your post. I want you to
explain to me the difference between what you wrote just above, and
what I wrote. What I wrote says that the way the Federal Reserve
lowers interest rates to make loans attractive to people is what
causes people to be poor and in debt. How does that differ from your
view? How does my view make me a moron when it's the truth of the
situation?
> The whole system of "money" is pretty much worthless, although it
> is still stealing from everyone holding dollars. It's not that a
> pound of grated cheese is worth $5.25. It's that $5.25 is now
> only worth a pound of cheese (or gallon of gasoline).
I have never said that a pound of cheese was worth $5.25. I said a
pound of cheese costs $5.25, which means exactly what you said: $5.25
is only worth a pound of cheese. That you think you had to correct me
on this is an illustration of your misconception of me.
> Back in 1960 $5.25 bought 21 gallons of gasoline. So in essence
> 20 gallons of gasoline have been stolen from you. You get to
> keep one gallon.
The price of gas in 1960 has nothing to do with the price of cheese
today.
> It's all SO simple yet, everyone allows it to go on. Everyone
> buys the hippie philosophy of "live for today" and has no problem
> with paying double for anything they buy (because of interest)
> because they simply "can't wait" until they actually save the
> money for it.
The Fed isn't set up that way. The Fed lowers interest rates to
encourage people to take on debt to buy things. Plus, you just assume
that people are materialistic and have no self-control. Apparently
you've never lived in the lowest rungs of society. Apparently you
don't know what it's like to work two or three jobs and still barely
have enough to pay the rent and keep food on the table while you bust
your ass to keep your boss in a job, and yourself, too.
And for all your own hard work and sacrifice, still the only way you
can reward yourself with something material is by doing one of two
things: Save cash for it, at which point you might run into some
medical problem that eats it all up, or maybe a trip to the dentist,
so you never get any kind of real reward. Or you can go out and get a
new TV on credit. That way at least you can watch people like the
folks you slave for live the luxurious lifestyles your sweat and back
problems have provided for them.
When people go out and buy shit on credit, it's not because they are
materialistic and have no self-control! It's because they feel like
they should have *something* nice in their lives for all their hard
work, and I agree with them. The people at the bottom are the
foundation of any company, and they're being treated like SLAVES!
> And you "Damaeus" are a wonderful, caring person, but there is just
> one little minor problem:
>
> You are a moron.
I don't think so. I think you just didn't read enough into what I was
writing, or you were reading the wrong things into it, assuming from
the start you were talking to an idiot. That, you see, causes you to
insert idiotic ideas into posts that don't inherently contain any
idiotic ideas, just because you assume I'm an idiot, even though you
might not have read the other dozens of posts I've made on this topic.
> How about you spend a little effort to "wise up"?
Odd how nobody has the answers, and yet everyone also thinks I'm
wrong. LMAO!!!
To fix the economy, the money should be given its face value,
standardize it, and pipe it into the economy through the citizens. The
reason the economy is unstable is BECAUSE money has elastic value. The
economy needs ONE stabilizing force: one standard currency whose value
does NOT change, and which becomes the measuring stick for everything
else in the world.
People spend the money the Fed inflated their wallets with and they
compound tax revenues multiple times by buying the lifestyles they
want. Production skyrockets, employment skyrockets, tax revenues
skyrocket, and America becomes a fortress of wealth and prosperity for
everyone. That'll work.
Damaeus
Damaeus
Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:33:35 +0000:
> Benj, on 22 Sep 2008, in alt.atheism, decided this was a worthy use of a
> keyboard:
>
> > Back in 1960 $5.25 bought 21 gallons of gasoline. So in essence
> > 20 gallons of gasoline have been stolen from you. You get to
> > keep one gallon.
>
> Giving some pretty short shrift to the matter of changing wages,
> aren't you?
I could see the hazy logic, but time-traveling to 1960 threw a wrench
into the whole thing.
Damaeus
Damaeus
2008 02:33:48 -0500:
> Many. I just flip through them more quickly than most writers, and
> wright about vast topics with condensed, ambigiuous language.
My air conditioner was set too low and my fingers were frozen. I
meant to say that I flip through perceptual pages more quickly than
many writers, and I write about vast topics with condensed, ambiguous
language.
Damaeus
Damaeus
2008 11:40:17 -0700 (PDT):
> On Sep 22, 3:03 am, Damaeus <dama...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > People would be self-sufficient if given the means to partake of
> > what other people have produced. One man isn't sufficient to
> > build a skyscraper, and one man isn't sufficient to run a
> > neighborhood or a house, or that matter. He needs things in the
> > house which are built by other people. And the people who built
> > what he needs have some use for what *he* does for a living.
>
> Oh Damaeus! What a beautiful left-wing thought! It's so
> wonderfully... um... utopian!
So? What's wrong with a utopian idea? Somebody has to come up with a
way to make this work. Apparently that's me. Nobody else seems to
get it.
> Two little problems here. The people who built the skyscraper don't
> have a whole lot of need for the "activities" of some scroungy jerk
> sucking Red Bull under a bridge smashed out of his mind.
Whoever said some scroungy jerk sucking Red Bull under a bridge,
smashed out of his mind was going to have a negative effect on the
global economy? I certainly didn't. If I happen to deliver pizza, I
might deliver to the guy who built it. The person who works in the
building may run a company connected to some service he uses. All
these actions we take are connected, either directly or indirectly.
> And the other problem is your theories have been pretty well tested in
> the practical world and here's the bad news: The Union of Soviet
> Socialist Republics isn't just "sleeping", It crashed and burned by
> reason of the failure of the very wonderful ideas you so love.
The Cold War did that. The White House, itself, claims victory for
that one. How Russia turned out might have been quite different if
our spending on military bulk hadn't scared the Russians into spending
their money on military power, themselves, instead of feeding their
people. The *REASON* the USSR didn't work as planned was BECAUSE of
the U.S. and the Cold War!
I think if they had been left alone, Russia would be a fantastic,
happy nation today. Russia's response to the U.S. military buildup
was logical.
> > We can't be self-sufficient if the means to purchase what we need
> > to live is so tightly controlled. We can't build the economy
> > buying the lifestyle of Faye Dunaway when we only have enough
> > money to live like Grizzly Adams.
>
> Being Robinhood and stealing from the "rich" at gunpoint to give to
> the "poor" does little but waste the resources of the rich.
But what if the rich have been keeping the poor in debt to make
themselves rich? Everyone claims that, but when I suggest changing
the system so that this no longer happens, suddenly people come out of
the woodwork to defend the rich people, when it's rich people who have
the power to make decisions that destroy the economy. Nobody cares
what decisions I make because I have no money.
> They might as well waste it on the lifestyle of Faye Dunaway
> where they at least get to have some advertising value out of it.
While others eat out of dumpsters. That makes sense.
> Stealing money to provide the "poor"
Some people think it's stealing to provide the rich when the Fed sets
it up so that the economy grows off the debt of those who take out
loans and run up credit cards, and pay back exhorbitant interest
rates. The people who *need* the lowest interest rates *pay* the
highest interest rates. That makes their bills that much harder for
them to pay off, and they're more likely to default.
> with destructive tools (beer, wine, booze, cigarettes, pot, other
> drugs, etc.)
Nice stereotype, and revelation of your psychology. You think all
poor people do is lie around drinking, getting high, and having sex,
apparently. Well, when the system has been set up so that there's not
enough money available to get a decent place to live, that people tend
to live in apartment communes and spend what little money they can on
drugs to numb the pain of life shouldn't be too surprising.
> Sure isn't doing anything to promote the overall human condition
> that a person could be proud of.
Hard to garner much pride when rich people stare down their noses at
you and act like it's some lack of intelligence that makes you poor.
> Obviously you need to climb down from your silk-draped Ivory
> tower and take a little trip with me down to the camp under the
> bridge just down the street from where I live.
What makes you think I live in an ivory tower?
> The path to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Parrot. The path to hell is paved with bad intentions. Whoever told
you what you just told me in is a fuckwit.
Damaeus
Damaeus
--
Cannabis helps you return to feeling like who you really are as a human being, and get away from what you have had to become to survive in this world. --Damaeus
Firelock
> Do you see the problem here? There are *LOTS* of workers who have
> lots of things they could spend money on. If the Fed pipes money into
> the economy through those people, they *will* spend it. It *will*
> raise sales.
If the governnment doubles the amount of money in
circulation, won't the value of each dollar be cut
in half? Can you say "runaway inflation"? The
faster a government tries to solve economic
problems by printing money, the faster that
government will collapse.
> It *will* raise production.
Why?
> It *will* generate taxes.
In dollars worth almost nothing each.
> It *will* raise the GDP,
Only if you ignore the falling value of the dollar.
> and with more Americans building their own
> stuff,
With what capital?
> we get QUALITY again, and not crap from China. Then our
> high-quality American products become popular worldwide, then our GNP
> goes up.
>
> How you can't see that is beyond me.
I can see it - I've just learned enough about economics
and history to know what a horribly bad idea it is.
> It's so simply beautiful that it
> makes me cry when I see others continue to be tortured with what the
> current financial system is doing to people!
How do you intend to deal with the massive devaluation
of the dollar your plan would cause?
--
Walt
§ñühwØ£f
the following claims :
> Please disregard my “ Motzarella.ORG ” comment,
> I was thinking of “ Mozilla.ORG ”.
Sure, Ray Banana is now much relieved...
You fail to address the issue of *other* people not yourself, who are
affected by the clamor for *more* H1B visas by people like Bill Gates.
Edward Green
> " homelessness wears down the mind ", you say;
> while that's true, " What doesn't kill me, makes me stronger. "
> is also true.
Which illustrates the limitations of aphorisms! Strictly applied,
that means what kills us slowly makes us stronger: right up to the
point where we die. Oops.
> I'm an under-employed programmer who could easily become unemployed;
> but my sympathy for the homeless comes mainly from the homeless youth
> I've met/helped over the years .. each one more " wise** " than you.
> ** i.e. they have skills I admire, skills you don't have.
Many people have skills I don't have. Computer programmers,
theoretical physicists, drug lords, concert pianists, and yes, the
homeless. You have the skill of having an answer to everything. That
doesn't really contradict my thesis. Sea turtles also have skills you
and I lack (but maybe not TJ) -- swimming and navigating thousands of
miles of open ocean. TJ no doubt will tell us he does this all the
time.
I can no longer afford to shop at my local grocery store. Who can
afford to shop there? People receiving food stamps (actually, now a
convenient credit card). They don't flinch at "spending" $6 for a
quart of mayo! Meanwhile, I work, am not rich, but make to much to
qualify for this benefit, so I must go find cheaper stores farther
away, or do without. The city uses my taxes to bid my out of the
marketplace.
What's wrong with this picture?
> By the way, at this point, I'm just addicted to:
> " having lots of free-time " .. to being a " starving artist ".
> It's not " a form of social protest against a divorce settlement ".
OK. Thanks for the update. I'm happy you're enjoying yourself.
Maybe I'll join you (in spirit).
Damaeus
23 Sep 2008 06:22:17 -0700 (PDT):
> On Sep 22, 3:54 pm, Damaeus <no-m...@hotmail.invalid> wrote:
> > Do you see the problem here? There are *LOTS* of workers who have
> > lots of things they could spend money on. If the Fed pipes money into
> > the economy through those people, they *will* spend it. It *will*
> > raise sales.
>
> If the governnment doubles the amount of money in
> circulation, won't the value of each dollar be cut
> in half?
The reason the economy is what it is now is because there was not a
single stabilizing force in the economy that I know of. They need one
thing in the stock market which has a value that never changes if they
ever hope to succeed at all in getting the thing to have any
longevity.
> Can you say "runaway inflation"? The faster a government tries
> to solve economic problems by printing money, the faster that
> government will collapse.
That's only because the Fed insisted on "elastic currency" when it was
founded. That elastic currency is why the value of the dollar drops
when you inflate the economy with more money. Give the dollar the
value it has printed on it, make it a global currency (or come up with
some global currency), and don't let it's value change.
> > It *will* raise production.
>
> Why?
Because if you give money to people who have the greatest potential to
spend it (poor people who have been deprived their whole lives),
they'll spend it like crazy, and production will skyrocket if they
ever hope to keep up with the demand.
> > It *will* generate taxes.
>
> In dollars worth almost nothing each.
The dollar will be worth a dollar. Ten dollars will be worth ten
dollars. The only thing that will change in value will be everything
that is not a dollar.
> > and with more Americans building their own
> > stuff,
>
> With what capital?
With the same capital they used to build factories overseas. They
just rebuild the factories here in the states so we have Americans
working for Americans, building products with the quality Americans
want.
> > We get QUALITY again, and not crap from China. Then our
> > high-quality American products become popular worldwide, then our
> > GNP goes up.
> >
> > How you can't see that is beyond me.
>
> I can see it - I've just learned enough about economics
> and history to know what a horribly bad idea it is.
Whose economics? Whose history?
And when has setting a set static value on money ever been tried,
especially in a day when, when you look at it, there's no reason to
even print money. With the Federal Reserve, they can work the system
the same way they do now just using computers and virtual money. The
only difference between $1,000 in paper money and $1,000 stored in a
file on a bank's hard drive is the mode of expression. They mean the
same thing. It's a thousand bucks whether it's paper or in a bank
account.
Given that, the Federal Reserve could save a lot of money if they just
stopped printing money and started handling their affairs
electronically. When the banks need more money, someone at the Fed
just logs in and changes the number for them. That way they don't
have to physically ship money all over the place, wasting gas and
trees.
> > It's so simply beautiful that it makes me cry when I see others
> > continue to be tortured with what the current financial system is
> > doing to people!
>
> How do you intend to deal with the massive devaluation
> of the dollar your plan would cause?
Why does the dollar have to have a value. Nobody has told me why
that's necessary yet.
tj Frazir
Claim it with the promis to remove evry bolt and return it to nature by
leasing it for 1 year for 150 bucks.
Wile your at it have the state write you a letter autherising you to
sell scarp rail road cars and lease the abandoned railyard nea seattle.
I found a junk yard closed in 1940 full of 1820s 30s . Its 20 acres of
not so rusty cars .
400 cars look like could drive away.
It cold swap parts in the yard and put another 1000 cars together .
Its on an island too . 1998 a boater toulk 100 pics of the abandoned
island yard.
Jeff▲Relf
no longer will I “ Muffle ” your posts ( see JeffRelf.F-M.FM ).
Aa I see you, you're very educated .. but a tad boring.
Your IP address tells me you're on “ Wall Street ”, Manhattan,
Salomon Inc., Citigroup. Where are interest rates going ? !
You told me:
“ Sea turtles also have skills you and I lack ( but maybe not TJ )
-- swimming and navigating thousands of miles of open ocean.
TJ no doubt will tell us he does this all the time. ”.
T.J. might be John Fredriksen, the billionaire Norwegian, I say;
but I Know he's the best “ comic book character ” on UseNet,
according to me. I'd leave Sci.Physics if T.J. left it.
Your income is too high to get food stamps, I hear,
but you could try “ food banks ”, “ garbage bins** ”
and/or cheap rice/soy from ChinaTown.
** i.e. talk to the people who are tossing out the food.
“ What's wrong with this picture? ”, you ask.
Find a cheaper place to rent .. now ! duh.
Firelock
> In news:sci.physics, Firelock <firelock...@hotmail.com> posted on Tue,
> 23 Sep 2008 06:22:17 -0700 (PDT):
>
> > On Sep 22, 3:54 pm, Damaeus <no-m...@hotmail.invalid> wrote:
> > > Do you see the problem here? There are *LOTS* of workers who have
> > > lots of things they could spend money on. If the Fed pipes money into
> > > the economy through those people, they *will* spend it. It *will*
> > > raise sales.
>
> > If the governnment doubles the amount of money in
> > circulation, won't the value of each dollar be cut
> > in half?
>
> The reason the economy is what it is now is because there was not a
> single stabilizing force in the economy that I know of. They need one
> thing in the stock market which has a value that never changes if they
> ever hope to succeed at all in getting the thing to have any
> longevity.
What do you recommend? The dollar hasn't ever been
that, not even when it was backed by precious metals.
> > Can you say "runaway inflation"? The faster a government tries
> > to solve economic problems by printing money, the faster that
> > government will collapse.
>
> That's only because the Fed insisted on "elastic currency" when it was
> founded. That elastic currency is why the value of the dollar drops
> when you inflate the economy with more money. Give the dollar the
> value it has printed on it, make it a global currency (or come up with
> some global currency), and don't let it's value change.
So you think that when the government prints a million
one dollar bills they magically create a million dollars
worth of value?
What do you think a dollar should be worth, and in
comparison to what? How do you intend to enforce
this value, how do you intend to make it "inelastic"?
> > > It *will* raise production.
>
> > Why?
>
> Because if you give money to people who have the greatest potential to
> spend it (poor people who have been deprived their whole lives),
> they'll spend it like crazy, and production will skyrocket if they
> ever hope to keep up with the demand.
But what if the newly-printed money you give to these
poor people is worthless, *and* the little money they
already had - due to your severe devaluing of the
currency - becomes worthless as well?
> > > It *will* generate taxes.
>
> > In dollars worth almost nothing each.
>
> The dollar will be worth a dollar. Ten dollars will be worth ten
> dollars. The only thing that will change in value will be everything
> that is not a dollar.
And ten dollars will be worth what one dollar was worth
before your hyperdevaluation scheme, when it comes
to actually buying anything.
> > > and with more Americans building their own
> > > stuff,
>
> > With what capital?
>
> With the same capital they used to build factories overseas. They
> just rebuild the factories here in the states so we have Americans
> working for Americans, building products with the quality Americans
> want.
The economic landscape is a bit more complex than
you think it is. What production survived in the US
would be what the survivors could cobble together
after the engines of commerce that make large-scale
production possible are destroyed by your plan.
> > > We get QUALITY again, and not crap from China. Then our
> > > high-quality American products become popular worldwide, then our
> > > GNP goes up.
>
> > > How you can't see that is beyond me.
>
> > I can see it - I've just learned enough about economics
> > and history to know what a horribly bad idea it is.
>
> Whose economics? Whose history?
Those of the civilized world.
> And when has setting a set static value on money ever been tried,
> especially in a day when, when you look at it, there's no reason to
> even print money. With the Federal Reserve, they can work the system
> the same way they do now just using computers and virtual money. The
> only difference between $1,000 in paper money and $1,000 stored in a
> file on a bank's hard drive is the mode of expression. They mean the
> same thing. It's a thousand bucks whether it's paper or in a bank
> account.
Something you're missing about money that has static
value: you can't just print more of it, any more than you
can just wish a thousand pounds of steel or a million
gallons of oil into existance. If you *do* just print more
money, then the only "static value" your money will
have is the value you stipulate and back with
government force - price controls, which immediately
lead to shortages, destruction of production and
black marketeering.
> Given that, the Federal Reserve could save a lot of money if they just
> stopped printing money and started handling their affairs
> electronically. When the banks need more money, someone at the Fed
> just logs in and changes the number for them. That way they don't
> have to physically ship money all over the place, wasting gas and
> trees.
I think we're almost at the point where electronic money
can become the standard. This is a completely different
subject from your "print money until everything gets
better" idea.
> > > It's so simply beautiful that it makes me cry when I see others
> > > continue to be tortured with what the current financial system is
> > > doing to people!
>
> > How do you intend to deal with the massive devaluation
> > of the dollar your plan would cause?
>
> Why does the dollar have to have a value. Nobody has told me why
> that's necessary yet.
Because the number of dollars in circulation represents
a measure of total wealth. This total wealth, while changeable,
doesn't change merely because the number of dollars
in circulation changes. If one billion dollars represents
the total wealth of our society today, and tonight you
print another one billion dollars, then tomorrow two billion
dollars represents the total wealth of our society - you
haven't increased society's wealth, you've just reduced
the value of each unit of representation of that wealth
by half.
--
Walt
Benj
> Benj, on 22 Sep 2008, in alt.atheism, decided this was a worthy use of a
> keyboard:
> > Back in 1960 $5.25 bought 21 gallons of gasoline. So in
> > essence 20 gallons of gasoline have been stolen from you. You get to
> > keep one gallon.
>
> Giving some pretty short shrift to the matter of changing wages, aren't
> you?
"Live for today", Eh, Duhidiot? Don't store any of your money, do
you?
What I really gave short shrift to was the matter of living by
accumulating massive debt. The idea is that if you can borrow a lot of
money to buy wealth (things) and then pay it back with inflated money
you essentially get to tap into that money that is being stolen from
all the people trying to store money and you get to join in the theft
(if your interest is low enough).
Benj
> In news:sci.physics, Benj <bjac...@iwaynet.net> posted on Mon, 22 Sep
> > Oh Damaeus! What a beautiful left-wing thought! It's so
> > wonderfully... um... utopian!
>
> So? What's wrong with a utopian idea? Somebody has to come up with a
> way to make this work. Apparently that's me. Nobody else seems to
> get it.
Um ideas need to have a connection to reality to actually be
effective. A little fact you tend to overlook. You think ideas only
need to be YOURS to be effective.
> > Two little problems here. The people who built the skyscraper don't
> > have a whole lot of need for the "activities" of some scroungy jerk
> > sucking Red Bull under a bridge smashed out of his mind.
>
> Whoever said some scroungy jerk sucking Red Bull under a bridge,
> smashed out of his mind was going to have a negative effect on the
> global economy? I certainly didn't. If I happen to deliver pizza, I
> might deliver to the guy who built it. The person who works in the
> building may run a company connected to some service he uses. All
> these actions we take are connected, either directly or indirectly.
But not connected to the parasites of society to whom you wish to give
the money earned by those contributing. Like most dreamers you think
that anecdotes are identical with laws that govern the world. They are
NOT.
> > And the other problem is your theories have been pretty well tested in
> > the practical world and here's the bad news: The Union of Soviet
> > Socialist Republics isn't just "sleeping", It crashed and burned by
> > reason of the failure of the very wonderful ideas you so love.
>
> The Cold War did that. The White House, itself, claims victory for
> that one. How Russia turned out might have been quite different if
> our spending on military bulk hadn't scared the Russians into spending
> their money on military power, themselves, instead of feeding their
> people. The *REASON* the USSR didn't work as planned was BECAUSE of
> the U.S. and the Cold War!
Oh here we go! Yeah, it wasn't the genocide, corruption and
totalitarian ideals that killed the USSR, it was the fact that you and
yours weren't running things. If ONLY you could be allowed to set up
YOUR left-wing utopia in the USA all it's problems would be solved...
Sure. Right.
Moron.
> I think if they had been left alone, Russia would be a fantastic,
> happy nation today. Russia's response to the U.S. military buildup
> was logical.
Moron.
> > > We can't be self-sufficient if the means to purchase what we need
> > > to live is so tightly controlled. We can't build the economy
> > > buying the lifestyle of Faye Dunaway when we only have enough
> > > money to live like Grizzly Adams.
>
> > Being Robinhood and stealing from the "rich" at gunpoint to give to
> > the "poor" does little but waste the resources of the rich.
> But what if the rich have been keeping the poor in debt to make
> themselves rich? Everyone claims that, but when I suggest changing
> the system so that this no longer happens, suddenly people come out of
> the woodwork to defend the rich people, when it's rich people who have
> the power to make decisions that destroy the economy. Nobody cares
> what decisions I make because I have no money.
Actually debt is good (if interest is low (which you call a plan to
steal from the poor) ) because you borrow money at one value and pay
it back at another lesser value. You really have NO understanding of
human nature, economics, money or little else, do you? Oh that's
right. Idealistic Left loon.
> > They might as well waste it on the lifestyle of Faye Dunaway
> > where they at least get to have some advertising value out of it.
>
> While others eat out of dumpsters. That makes sense.
Hey dude, there is some good shit in dumpsters! Didn't you ever hear
about the starving children in India?
> > Stealing money to provide the "poor"
>
> Some people think it's stealing to provide the rich when the Fed sets
> it up so that the economy grows off the debt of those who take out
> loans and run up credit cards, and pay back exhorbitant interest
> rates. The people who *need* the lowest interest rates *pay* the
> highest interest rates. That makes their bills that much harder for
> them to pay off, and they're more likely to default.
The whole idea (which you buy into) of the ever-expanding economy is
obviously moronic. Next you'll be telling us about the big bang and
the ever-expanding universe.
> > with destructive tools (beer, wine, booze, cigarettes, pot, other
> > drugs, etc.)
>
> Nice stereotype, and revelation of your psychology. You think all
> poor people do is lie around drinking, getting high, and having sex,
> apparently. Well, when the system has been set up so that there's not
> enough money available to get a decent place to live, that people tend
> to live in apartment communes and spend what little money they can on
> drugs to numb the pain of life shouldn't be too surprising.
Oh right. Only YOUR stereotypes are permitted! How about some DATA
instead? Oh that's right for you anecdotes ARE the same as real data.
I happen to know EXACTLY what poor people do! I've lived below the
poverty line for so many years I can't even count them. And yet
because there is enough left of the OLD America I have lived with
virtually everything I ever wanted. I didn't need welfare, or money
taken from the rich, or government control of my life (which is what
"free" money brings and is why you promote it). Hey This IS AMERICA! I
don't think four cars is too many! And ANY poor person can live as I
do IF they have the will and control to do it. They don't. And the
reason is so simple: They got sold on YOUR idiot ideas rather than on
TRUTH.
> > Sure isn't doing anything to promote the overall human condition
> > that a person could be proud of.
>
> Hard to garner much pride when rich people stare down their noses at
> you and act like it's some lack of intelligence that makes you poor.
That would be be cause it is some lack of intelligence that makes you
poor!
> > Obviously you need to climb down from your silk-draped Ivory
> > tower and take a little trip with me down to the camp under the
> > bridge just down the street from where I live.
>
> What makes you think I live in an ivory tower?
>
> > The path to Hell is paved with good intentions.
>
> Parrot. The path to hell is paved with bad intentions. Whoever told
> you what you just told me in is a fuckwit.
Atheist too! Oh that's right, I forgot about your politics, comrade.
> Cannabis helps you return to feeling like who you really are as a human being, and get away from what you have had to become to survive in this world. --Damaeus
And Stoner as well. Obviously I am wasting my time trying to explain
anything to you, dood! I mean like, did ever just LOOK at your own
hand? I mean like REALLY look at it? Wanna toke?
You have ZERO credibility here.
Plonk.
Jeff▲Relf
restoring cars is well above my pay-grade;
what's more, that tax-bracket isn't for me, I don't want it.
I write VC++ 9 / VBA-Excel code for bankers who use Windows XP/Vista,
an under-employed “ starving artist ” who could become unemployed soon,
especially since so many bankers are getting layed-off these days.
If I do lose my gig, after 15+ years on the job,
I'm pondering making “ urban camping ” my full-time job;
however, I might chicken-out and just get another coder gig.
Jeff▲Relf
“ you** ” get paid well but it's not worth it, I maintain.
** Likely, your gov/ex-wife would get every fuckin' dime.
DuhIdiot
keyboard:
Not sure what any of that had to do with what I said. I was pointing out
that while your $5.25 may not buy what it did 50 years ago, neither does
your employer's $5.25 buy the whole day's worth of your labor it bought
then. Nowadays his $5.25 gets him 10, 20, or 40 minutes. So you haven't
been robbed quite as blind as your post made out.
The overarching insanity of foundational economic principles like interest
and insurance I have no problems with.
Michael Moroney
>On 22 Sep 2008 18:40:43 GMT Jeff?Relf <Jeff...@Seattle.Invalid>
>carved the following into the hard stone of alt.atheism
>>“ homelessness wears down the mind ”, you say;
>>while that's true, “ What doesn't kill me, makes me stronger. ”
>>is also true.
>I'm sorry, but why the fuck do you think any of us care?
That's Jeff Relf, who either doesn't know the difference between Usenet
and a blog, or does know but posts here rather than write a blog since
he knows nobody would read his drek in a blog.
Jeff▲Relf
I wouldn't want to be a high-roller myself,
but I enjoy reading about such people.
** no matter if he's being “ creative ” or not.
While here, I read a few posts, mostly** limited
to the 3 most-recent posts per nym .. and I might comment on them.
**:
but I read All replies to me, no matter who, and
I Always see the “ Heritage ”, e.g. the parent post; like this:
“ JeffRelf.F-M.FM/UnVisted.PNG ”.
If you, Mr. Moroney, could handle nyms like that**,
you wouldn't be constantly bitching, like a little girl.
** including a list of nyms to “ Watch ” and XRanked nyms.
jjs
Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:25:18 +0400:
>
> Their European corporate bosses' sole source of income is selling their
> products to Americans.
That's the Big Lie.
tj Frazir
Google found a 1930 cadalac in the desert.
abandoned railyards .
20,000 ton $ 200 ton .
just 400 railcars
tj Frazir
tj Frazir
Tell the city you make $ 300 payment on the big biulding then once you
have it have korea give you 2000 units $ 6000 each and you will pay it
off in 120 months
Jeff▲Relf
“ Abandoned seattle biulding.
Tell the city you'll make $ 300 payment on the big building;
then, once you have it, have Korea give you 2000 units at $ 6000 each
and [ tell them ] you'll pay it off in 120 months ”.
Perhaps you know about such things, but I sure as hell don't.
Even if I could build a sky scraper for myself,
why take on the head aches ? I don't need that kind of money.
Remember, I've no experience, no lawyers, no accountants,
no assurances that you aren't just toying with me, etc.
Damaeus
23 Sep 2008 12:05:26 -0700 (PDT):
> On Sep 23, 1:42�pm, Damaeus <dama...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > The reason the economy is what it is now is because there was not
> > a single stabilizing force in the economy that I know of. �They
> > need one thing in the stock market which has a value that never
> > changes if they ever hope to succeed at all in getting the thing
> > to have any longevity.
>
> What do you recommend? The dollar hasn't ever been
> that, not even when it was backed by precious metals.
I know. If they would create a global currency and make it applicable
to all stock markets *that* would be the stabilizer.
But continuing to expect people to support the economy by taking on
debt will also continue to cause problems.
To raise production, CASH, not debt, must be used. Using debt limits
production based on how much banks want to risk losing to people who
want to buy stuff. If the Fed gave out cash instead of enticing debt,
production would not be limited by anything except what people want to
buy.
> > That's only because the Fed insisted on "elastic currency" when it was
> > founded. �That elastic currency is why the value of the dollar drops
> > when you inflate the economy with more money. �Give the dollar the
> > value it has printed on it, make it a global currency (or come up with
> > some global currency), and don't let it's value change.
>
> So you think that when the government prints a million
> one dollar bills they magically create a million dollars
> worth of value?
They create a million dollars worth of potential economic growth once
that money goes into the hands of people who actually need and want to
spend it on goods and services.
> What do you think a dollar should be worth, and in
> comparison to what? How do you intend to enforce
> this value, how do you intend to make it "inelastic"?
A dollar should be worth a dollar. Ten dollars should be worth ten
dollars. By giving money a fixed value, the value of goods and
services can dictate how much money you have to spend. The way it is
now, with the dollar AND goods and services fluctuating in price, the
value of the dollar goes down, the value of products goes up, so
you're spending a lot more money but you're getting less for it.
> > > > �It *will* raise production.
> >
> > > Why?
> >
> > Because if you give money to people who have the greatest potential to
> > spend it (poor people who have been deprived their whole lives),
> > they'll spend it like crazy, and production will skyrocket if they
> > ever hope to keep up with the demand.
>
> But what if the newly-printed money you give to these
> poor people is worthless, *and* the little money they
> already had - due to your severe devaluing of the
> currency - becomes worthless as well?
The currency won't be devalued. It'll be worth the amount that's
printed on it.
> > With the same capital they used to build factories overseas. �They
> > just rebuild the factories here in the states so we have Americans
> > working for Americans, building products with the quality Americans
> > want.
>
> The economic landscape is a bit more complex than
> you think it is. What production survived in the US
> would be what the survivors could cobble together
> after the engines of commerce that make large-scale
> production possible are destroyed by your plan.
What makes large-scale commerce possible is lots and lots of CASH.
What makes large-scale economic crises possible is lots and lots of
DEBT.
> > > > We get QUALITY again, and not crap from China. ��Then our
> > > > high-quality American products become popular worldwide, then our
> > > > GNP goes up.
> >
> > > > How you can't see that is beyond me.
> >
> > > I can see it - I've just learned enough about economics
> > > and history to know what a horribly bad idea it is.
> >
> > Whose economics? �Whose history?
>
> Those of the civilized world.
I don't think it's civilized when you've got one part of society
living in ultra-luxury off the debt and interest paid by those who
can't afford to live any other way, and intentionally setting the
system up to operate that way.
Economists, themselves, say that capitalism works through borrowing
and lending. So if nobody borrows, capitalists don't make money.
That's why capitalists like for us to remain in debt to them. They
can sit and collect our interest while we sweat and slave for hourly
wages.
Capitalists "wager" that they can convince us to trade time for money,
then take out loans for anything beyond what we need for basic
survival. But their plan caught up with them. Now people need debt
for basic survival, in many cases, so the capitalist house of cards is
falling. People can no longer pay back the debt the system was
designed to force them to take on if they want a place to live or a
car to get back and forth to work.
Since that kind of system prevents some people from ever getting any
credit at all, those people aren't able to do anything to raise
production in the country at all, except through buying the very
essentials.
> > And when has setting a set static value on money ever been tried,
> > especially in a day when, when you look at it, there's no reason to
> > even print money. �With the Federal Reserve, they can work the system
> > the same way they do now just using computers and virtual money. �The
> > only difference between $1,000 in paper money and $1,000 stored in a
> > file on a bank's hard drive is the mode of expression. �They mean the
> > same thing. �It's a thousand bucks whether it's paper or in a bank
> > account.
>
> Something you're missing about money that has static value: you
> can't just print more of it, any more than you can just wish a
> thousand pounds of steel or a million gallons of oil into
> existence. If you *do* just print more money, then the only
> "static value" your money will have is the value you stipulate
> and back with government force - price controls, which
> immediately lead to shortages, destruction of production and
> black marketeering.
How do you see that happening? How would people spending cash and
buying boats, cars, lawn mowers, TVs, clothes, etc.. destroy
production? That causes production to FLOURISH because people are
buying things.
> > Given that, the Federal Reserve could save a lot of money if they just
> > stopped printing money and started handling their affairs
> > electronically. �When the banks need more money, someone at the Fed
> > just logs in and changes the number for them. �That way they don't
> > have to physically ship money all over the place, wasting gas and
> > trees.
>
> I think we're almost at the point where electronic money
> can become the standard. This is a completely different
> subject from your "print money until everything gets
> better" idea.
Your idea would probably place a value on the number of "credits" you
have in electronic money. That just leads to more of the same, and
opens the channels for hanky panky. And who says that someone at the
bank hasn't gone into various accounts, already, to change the
balance?
What I'm against is putting so much power into the hands of so few to
control interest rates and the supply of money, therefore its value.
Bottle caps could be used as currency as easily as cash. But by
limiting cash to control its value, you turn it into paper gold. And
whoever controls that paper (the federal reserve) has the country over
a barrel. Then the Fed loans money to the government to prop up banks
it's already connected with, so the Fed gets interest back from money
they could have used on the banks directly, themselves, to keep
themselves out of a mess instead of expecting taxpayers to pay for it.
> > > > �It's so simply beautiful that it makes me cry when I see others
> > > > continue to be tortured with what the current financial system is
> > > > doing to people!
> >
> > > How do you intend to deal with the massive devaluation
> > > of the dollar your plan would cause?
> >
> > Why does the dollar have to have a value. �Nobody has told me why
> > that's necessary yet.
>
> Because the number of dollars in circulation represents a measure
> of total wealth. This total wealth, while changeable, doesn't
> change merely because the number of dollars in circulation
> changes.
But the problem is that while the amount of money in circulation might
increase, the people at the bottom are restricted by how much money
they can have because they work at jobs that only give them a certain
amount of money for a certain amount of time. By having money with an
elastic value, what these people *actually earn* is affected based on
the money supply. So the Fed is jacking directly with people's
payrates and livelihood by having elastic currency. When the dollar
felt to half its value, I was making half as much money as I was
before. And then they say it's my fault when my bills go unpaid.
No, it isn't. The value of money is to blame. I was able to pay my
bills when a dollar was a dollar. Now that they decided they want a
dollar that's worth less, my bills are part of the bailout package, as
far as I'm concerned.
> If one billion dollars represents the total wealth of our society
> today, and tonight you print another one billion dollars, then
> tomorrow two billion dollars represents the total wealth of our
> society - you haven't increased society's wealth, you've just
> reduced the value of each unit of representation of that wealth
> by half.
And by limiting the amount of CASH money people have to spend, you
limit production. You limit the rate at which natural resources of
the earth can be converted to wealth.
People say they want more economic growth. The reason it only grows a
couple or three percentage points per years is because that's about
how much debt the average person can pay off each year. Then that
growth comes from maxing themselves out all over again.
By switching to CASH to stimulate the economy instead of DEBT, you wil
get DOUBLE DIGIT economic growth at an unprecedented rate.
Damaeus
2008 12:46:27 -0700 (PDT):
> On Sep 23, 6:18 am, Damaeus <dama...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > In news:sci.physics, Benj <bjac...@iwaynet.net> posted on Mon, 22 Sep
>
> > > Oh Damaeus! What a beautiful left-wing thought! It's so
> > > wonderfully... um... utopian!
> >
> > So? What's wrong with a utopian idea? Somebody has to come up with a
> > way to make this work. Apparently that's me. Nobody else seems to
> > get it.
>
> Um ideas need to have a connection to reality to actually be
> effective.
The reality now is that what they have been doing does not work.
> A little fact you tend to overlook.
Yes. People tend to overlook the fact that what is being done now
doesn't work whenever something that WILL work is presented.
> You think ideas only need to be YOURS to be effective.
No, but I *do* think they need to be *tried* to see if they *will* be
effective, instead of just dismissing them out of hand even though
they've never been tried before.
> > > Two little problems here. The people who built the skyscraper don't
> > > have a whole lot of need for the "activities" of some scroungy jerk
> > > sucking Red Bull under a bridge smashed out of his mind.
> >
> > Whoever said some scroungy jerk sucking Red Bull under a bridge,
> > smashed out of his mind was going to have a negative effect on the
> > global economy? I certainly didn't. If I happen to deliver pizza, I
> > might deliver to the guy who built it. The person who works in the
> > building may run a company connected to some service he uses. All
> > these actions we take are connected, either directly or indirectly.
>
> But not connected to the parasites of society
How is it not parasitic for the federal reserve to entice people into
taking out loans with lower interest rates, then expecting them to pay
it back, not only with the loan payments, but with higher taxes, lost
401k plans, and a bunch of people working for the falling companies
getting large sums of money the executives set aside before the bank
went under?
You don't think that's parasitic?
> To whom you wish to give the money earned by those contributing.
What did those people living off our interest, 401k plans and higher
taxes contribute except to the financial misery, domestic violence,
robberies, marital problems and other things all rooted in a caused
known as the lack of enough money to meet needs and be comfortable in
life?
> Like most dreamers you think that anecdotes
I have no anecdotes because static-valued money hasn't been
demonstrated to allow me to see things from which to construct
anecdotes.
> Are identical with laws that govern the world. They are
> NOT.
Obviously not. The economy is a piece of shit right now, at least for
the parasites at the top. We at the bottom are just enjoying watching
it all fall apart.
> > > And the other problem is your theories have been pretty well tested in
> > > the practical world and here's the bad news: The Union of Soviet
> > > Socialist Republics isn't just "sleeping", It crashed and burned by
> > > reason of the failure of the very wonderful ideas you so love.
> >
> > The Cold War did that. The White House, itself, claims victory for
> > that one. How Russia turned out might have been quite different if
> > our spending on military bulk hadn't scared the Russians into spending
> > their money on military power, themselves, instead of feeding their
> > people. The *REASON* the USSR didn't work as planned was BECAUSE of
> > the U.S. and the Cold War!
>
> Oh here we go! Yeah, it wasn't the genocide, corruption and
> totalitarian ideals that killed the USSR,
You originally said the USSR failed because of my utopian ideas, then
when I correct you and say it was the Cold War, you come back and
change your mind and say it wasn't my ideas, but genocide, corruption
and totalitarianism.
If you're going to be wrong about something, just accept it and move
on instead of shifting positions to try to save yourself.
Besides, America does the same thing the USSR was doing. It just does
it through capitalism, punishing incessantly a whole sector of society
by expecting them to support the economy with indebtedness and wage
slavery.
> It was the fact that you and yours weren't running things. If
> ONLY you could be allowed to set up YOUR left-wing utopia in the
> USA all it's problems would be solved... Sure. Right.
Well, someone has to have all the right answers.
> Moron.
According to http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/IQBasics.aspx if I'm a
Moron, you must be an Idiot.
> > I think if they had been left alone, Russia would be a fantastic,
> > happy nation today. Russia's response to the U.S. military buildup
> > was logical.
>
> Moron.
If I had been in control of Russia, and the U.S. was trying to tell me
what to do, I would have done the same thing they did. Why wouldn't
I, if some other country was trying to be lord over mine? That you
think I'm a moron for this shows that you don't have the balls to be a
military leader like I do.
> > But what if the rich have been keeping the poor in debt to make
> > themselves rich? Everyone claims that, but when I suggest changing
> > the system so that this no longer happens, suddenly people come out of
> > the woodwork to defend the rich people, when it's rich people who have
> > the power to make decisions that destroy the economy. Nobody cares
> > what decisions I make because I have no money.
>
> Actually debt is good (if interest is low (which you call a plan
> to steal from the poor) )
I don't call low interest rates a plan to steal from the poor. I call
it unethical when the fed lowers interest rates specifically to entice
people into taking out loans.
> Because you borrow money at one value and pay it back at another
> lesser value.
That doesn't matter when your only means to earn money is to earn it
with your time.
When I spend $1000 on an item, it doesn't matter how much the value of
the dollar is. Whether the dollar is worth 90 cents or 20 cents, I
have to pay back 1000 dollar bills. That $1000, I have no option but
to earn by trading my time for an employer's hourly rate. I give him
1 hour, he gives me $10.00, for simplicity. I've never had an
employer actually pay me that much, but I can fantasize.
I have to work 100 hours to earn that thousand bucks. But with the
value of the dollar dropping, and the price of everything going up at
the same time, I end up spending more to survive while trying to pay
of something I bought in response to a credit ad when times were good.
In my case, borrowing at a higher value and trying to pay it back at a
lower value results in economic hard times.
> You really have NO understanding of human nature, economics,
> money or little else, do you?
Yes, I do. It's just that I live it from the sector of society that
is affected very deeply by the decisions made by people who think
they're helping us. They're not. Everything they do makes things
worse and worse.
Some guy thinks that since his portfolio is soaring with higher
balances, then everyone in the country must be doing great. They're
not. Every decision that benefits banks hurts the people who can only
earn a living trading time for money.
> > > They might as well waste it on the lifestyle of Faye Dunaway
> > > where they at least get to have some advertising value out of it.
> >
> > While others eat out of dumpsters. That makes sense.
>
> Hey dude, there is some good shit in dumpsters! Didn't you ever hear
> about the starving children in India?
And you accuse me of not understanding human nature? I understand
human nature enough to know that people will eat out of dumpsters if
they need to to keep from dying of starvation. I also understand
enough about human nature to know that you're deluded if you think
everyone is doing great just because you are.
> > > Stealing money to provide the "poor"
> >
> > Some people think it's stealing to provide the rich when the Fed sets
> > it up so that the economy grows off the debt of those who take out
> > loans and run up credit cards, and pay back exhorbitant interest
> > rates. The people who *need* the lowest interest rates *pay* the
> > highest interest rates. That makes their bills that much harder for
> > them to pay off, and they're more likely to default.
>
> The whole idea (which you buy into) of the ever-expanding economy is
> obviously moronic.
What are you talking about? I was watching the news just the other
day and people seemed somewhat depressed that all the stuff that's
happened in the last two weeks might slow economic growth to 2%.
Now what is it that is not liked about an ever-expanding economy?
> Next you'll be telling us about the big bang and the
> ever-expanding universe.
Well, this is a physics newsgroup I'm reading from, so I can go that
direction. But I don't believe in an ever-expanding universe, but in
one that is infinite already.
> > > with destructive tools (beer, wine, booze, cigarettes, pot, other
> > > drugs, etc.)
> >
> > Nice stereotype, and revelation of your psychology. You think all
> > poor people do is lie around drinking, getting high, and having sex,
> > apparently. Well, when the system has been set up so that there's not
> > enough money available to get a decent place to live, that people tend
> > to live in apartment communes and spend what little money they can on
> > drugs to numb the pain of life shouldn't be too surprising.
>
> Oh right. Only YOUR stereotypes are permitted!
Well, I did say "apparently" to signify that it was an apparent fact
based on what I've read from you so far. That you chose to gravitate
toward a hard accusation of being a stereotype is your issue.
> How about some DATA instead? Oh that's right for you anecdotes
> ARE the same as real data.
I can't present data or anecdotes for something that has not yet been
tried.
> I happen to know EXACTLY what poor people do! I've lived below
> the poverty line for so many years I can't even count them. And
> yet because there is enough left of the OLD America I have lived
> with virtually everything I ever wanted. I didn't need welfare,
> or money taken from the rich, or government control of my life
> (which is what "free" money brings and is why you promote it).
How do you come to the conclusion that free money brings government
control of your life? I certainly don't have that as part of my
vision. I hate government control of people's lives. I'm totally
against it. Free money would liberate people from government, and
solve so many problems that you'd be amazed at the results.
Crime would almost immediately vanish! The whole reason people commit
crimes is due to the lack of money.
> Hey This IS AMERICA! I don't think four cars is too many!
John McCain doesn't think so, and he's running for president. If he
can have that many cars and houses, why can't we all? Or is all that
luxury only reserved for politicians and people who run banks?
> And ANY poor person can live as I do IF they have the will and
> control to do it.
How?
As I've said, I've follow the rules, been a "company man" to give my
life, soul and body to my employer hoping for financial reward. When
asked, I went in early, stayed late, came in on my days off. I always
went the extra mile on my job, hoping to be noticed doing something
that would get recognition as one who cares! Nothing! Hardly any
employer seemed to care. It got to be so that it felt like they were
intentionally trying to ignore my efforts so as to *avoid* giving me a
raise.
One thing is that I've typically turned down promotions because I
don't like telling others what to do.
Given those two paragraphs, how does one who is intelligent and has a
fantastic work ethic get ahead? In the past, I've looked at how
managers and hourly employees interact, and I imagined I wouldn't like
ordering others around in that way, so I've avoided things like retail
or restaurant management. They seemed to be on the verge of pulling
their hair out half the time, and I didn't want to live like that.
Are supervisor/management positions like that in offices?
> They don't. And the reason is so simple: They got sold on YOUR
> idiot ideas rather than on TRUTH.
People were doing what they're doing for a long time before I came
along. I'm looking to change the system entirely by inflating the
economy with money through the lowest rungs of society instead of
expecting the lowest rungs to take on debt to boost production.
> > > Sure isn't doing anything to promote the overall human condition
> > > that a person could be proud of.
> >
> > Hard to garner much pride when rich people stare down their noses at
> > you and act like it's some lack of intelligence that makes you poor.
>
> That would be be cause it is some lack of intelligence that makes you
> poor!
How? From what I've read, you must have some kind of starting capital
if you're to even get a leg in the financial race. Since I've never
been in a position to have enough money to get started, I don't know
what I could do yet. I look into getting a little extra income with
CDs that have a 5-year maturity date with a nice interest rate, but I
need $5,000 to even get one. I've never had more than $1,500 at one
time in my whole life, and I only had that much after getting three
paychecks and at tax rebate in one month.
> > > Obviously you need to climb down from your silk-draped Ivory
> > > tower and take a little trip with me down to the camp under the
> > > bridge just down the street from where I live.
> >
> > What makes you think I live in an ivory tower?
> >
> > > The path to Hell is paved with good intentions.
> >
> > Parrot. The path to hell is paved with bad intentions. Whoever told
> > you what you just told me in is a fuckwit.
>
> Atheist too! Oh that's right, I forgot about your politics, comrade.
Atheist? No. But I can describe the God process with atheistic
language.
> Cannabis helps you return to feeling like who you really are as a
> human being, and get away from what you have had to become to
> survive in this world.
>
> And Stoner as well. Obviously I am wasting my time trying to explain
> anything to you, dood! I mean like, did ever just LOOK at your own
> hand? I mean like REALLY look at it? Wanna toke?
Heh... Your assumption that I'm like you describe is amusing. I'm not
your average stoner.
> You have ZERO credibility here.
>
> Plonk.
Neither do your critical thinking skills since you "plonked" me after
an unproven stereotype before awaiting a response. You have lost all
your credibility as one who can exercise the thinking necessary for
rational decisions.
Damaeus
Damaeus
--
Damaeus
> On Sep 22, 3:33 pm, DuhIdiot <jmSasPhbAu...@windstream.net> wrote:
> > Benj, on 22 Sep 2008, in alt.atheism, decided this was a worthy use of a
> > keyboard:
>
> > > Back in 1960 $5.25 bought 21 gallons of gasoline. So in
> > > essence 20 gallons of gasoline have been stolen from you. You get to
> > > keep one gallon.
> >
> > Giving some pretty short shrift to the matter of changing wages, aren't
> > you?
>
> "Live for today", Eh, Duhidiot? Don't store any of your money, do
> you?
Hard to store money when everything you make goes to rent, utilities
and old debts. People literally pay until their pockets are empty.
To chastise one for not saving when it's all they can do to survive on
what they make is a cruel, cruel statement. I hope you feel ashamed
of yourself now that we see what you're really like.
> What I really gave short shrift to
short shrift -
1. Obs. A brief time granted a condemned person for religious
confession and absolution before his execution
2. very little care or attention, as from lack of patience or sympathy
� make short shrift of
to make short work of; dispose of quickly and impatiently
> Was the matter of living by accumulating massive debt. The idea
> is that if you can borrow a lot of money to buy wealth (things)
First, how do you gain wealth if you have to go into debt to buy
something?
> and then pay it back with inflated money
Oh. You mean borrow money when its value is low, buy something, then
pay it back when the value of money is high? How does that build
> you essentially get to tap into that money that is being stolen
> from all the people trying to store money
Stolen? How does your acquisition of debt and paying interest steal
money from those who are trying to "store" it, and by "store", I
assume you mean "save" as in a savings account. If not, please
expand.
> And you get to join in the theft (if your interest is low
> enough).
Well, that's all very enlightening. Is it legal for anyone to steal
money this way? Can you teach me to steal someone else's money like
that? I need some money and earning it honestly isn't working. I
need a way to steal money like you do so I can make a living and live
your lifestyle.
jmfbahciv
Money isn't a scarce commodity. People have too much money so it is
wasted on the frivolous.
/BAH
jmfbahciv
Change of topic:
Did you watch Nova last night (Tuesday)?
/BAH
Firelock
> In news:sci.physics, Firelock <firelock...@hotmail.com> posted on Tue,
> 23 Sep 2008 12:05:26 -0700 (PDT):
>
> > On Sep 23, 1:42 pm, Damaeus <dama...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > The reason the economy is what it is now is because there was not
> > > a single stabilizing force in the economy that I know of. They
> > > need one thing in the stock market which has a value that never
> > > changes if they ever hope to succeed at all in getting the thing
> > > to have any longevity.
>
> > What do you recommend? The dollar hasn't ever been
> > that, not even when it was backed by precious metals.
>
> I know. If they would create a global currency and make it applicable
> to all stock markets *that* would be the stabilizer.
>
> But continuing to expect people to support the economy by taking on
> debt will also continue to cause problems.
>
> To raise production, CASH, not debt, must be used.
Damaeus, why is CASH worth anything? I think you're
missing some very critical things about what money is
and how it works.
> Using debt limits
> production based on how much banks want to risk losing to people who
> want to buy stuff. If the Fed gave out cash instead of enticing debt,
> production would not be limited by anything except what people want to
> buy.
Why do you think that printing millions of extra dollars and
giving them away automatically makes everyone rich?
> > > That's only because the Fed insisted on "elastic currency" when it was
> > > founded. That elastic currency is why the value of the dollar drops
> > > when you inflate the economy with more money. Give the dollar the
> > > value it has printed on it, make it a global currency (or come up with
> > > some global currency), and don't let it's value change.
>
> > So you think that when the government prints a million
> > one dollar bills they magically create a million dollars
> > worth of value?
>
> They create a million dollars worth of potential economic growth once
> that money goes into the hands of people who actually need and want to
> spend it on goods and services.
You're missing the point: just printing money doesn't
change the wealth of a society, not one iota.
> > What do you think a dollar should be worth, and in
> > comparison to what? How do you intend to enforce
> > this value, how do you intend to make it "inelastic"?
>
> A dollar should be worth a dollar. Ten dollars should be worth ten
> dollars. By giving money a fixed value,
Again, FIXED compared to WHAT?
> the value of goods and
> services can dictate how much money you have to spend. The way it is
> now, with the dollar AND goods and services fluctuating in price, the
> value of the dollar goes down, the value of products goes up, so
> you're spending a lot more money but you're getting less for it.
Unless you can specify what unchanging constant you
want the dollar to remain fixed in comparison to, you're
not making any sense. There's no difference, practically
speaking, between a dollar being worth half as much
than it was a year ago and a service costing twice as
much as it did a year ago, or any combination of
the two.
> > > > > It *will* raise production.
>
> > > > Why?
>
> > > Because if you give money to people who have the greatest potential to
> > > spend it (poor people who have been deprived their whole lives),
> > > they'll spend it like crazy, and production will skyrocket if they
> > > ever hope to keep up with the demand.
>
> > But what if the newly-printed money you give to these
> > poor people is worthless, *and* the little money they
> > already had - due to your severe devaluing of the
> > currency - becomes worthless as well?
>
> The currency won't be devalued. It'll be worth the amount that's
> printed on it.
And there will be twice as much of it representing an
identical amount of wealth, so it *will* be devalued.
> > > With the same capital they used to build factories overseas. They
> > > just rebuild the factories here in the states so we have Americans
> > > working for Americans, building products with the quality Americans
> > > want.
>
> > The economic landscape is a bit more complex than
> > you think it is. What production survived in the US
> > would be what the survivors could cobble together
> > after the engines of commerce that make large-scale
> > production possible are destroyed by your plan.
>
> What makes large-scale commerce possible is lots and lots of CASH.
> What makes large-scale economic crises possible is lots and lots of
> DEBT.
Actually, lots and lots of debt *is* key to large scale commerce
as well.
> > > > > We get QUALITY again, and not crap from China. Then our
> > > > > high-quality American products become popular worldwide, then our
> > > > > GNP goes up.
>
> > > > > How you can't see that is beyond me.
>
> > > > I can see it - I've just learned enough about economics
> > > > and history to know what a horribly bad idea it is.
>
> > > Whose economics? Whose history?
>
> > Those of the civilized world.
>
> I don't think it's civilized when you've got one part of society
> living in ultra-luxury off the debt and interest paid by those who
> can't afford to live any other way, and intentionally setting the
> system up to operate that way.
I've seen what the world looks like when people try
your ideas. Pre-Hitler Germany, for example.
> Economists, themselves, say that capitalism works through borrowing
> and lending. So if nobody borrows, capitalists don't make money.
>
> That's why capitalists like for us to remain in debt to them. They
> can sit and collect our interest while we sweat and slave for hourly
> wages.
>
> Capitalists "wager" that they can convince us to trade time for money,
> then take out loans for anything beyond what we need for basic
> survival. But their plan caught up with them. Now people need debt
> for basic survival, in many cases, so the capitalist house of cards is
> falling. People can no longer pay back the debt the system was
> designed to force them to take on if they want a place to live or a
> car to get back and forth to work.
>
> Since that kind of system prevents some people from ever getting any
> credit at all, those people aren't able to do anything to raise
> production in the country at all, except through buying the very
> essentials.
So the system isn't perfect and didn't allow you to live in the
lap of luxury. Deliberately breaking it by screwing with the
value of money isn't going to help - especially since this
system you see as broken has created a society where
people below the poverty line often have air conditioners,
cable TV and cars.
> > > And when has setting a set static value on money ever been tried,
> > > especially in a day when, when you look at it, there's no reason to
> > > even print money. With the Federal Reserve, they can work the system
> > > the same way they do now just using computers and virtual money. The
> > > only difference between $1,000 in paper money and $1,000 stored in a
> > > file on a bank's hard drive is the mode of expression. They mean the
> > > same thing. It's a thousand bucks whether it's paper or in a bank
> > > account.
>
> > Something you're missing about money that has static value: you
> > can't just print more of it, any more than you can just wish a
> > thousand pounds of steel or a million gallons of oil into
> > existence. If you *do* just print more money, then the only
> > "static value" your money will have is the value you stipulate
> > and back with government force - price controls, which
> > immediately lead to shortages, destruction of production and
> > black marketeering.
>
> How do you see that happening? How would people spending cash and
> buying boats, cars, lawn mowers, TVs, clothes, etc.. destroy
> production? That causes production to FLOURISH because people are
> buying things.
I see it happening because that's exactly what's happened
every single time a country in economic crisis tries to
solve the problem by printing money. Late Weimar Germany,
many South American nations over the last century,
post WW2 Italy. People bringing wheelbarrows full of
cash to a bakery to buy a few loaves of bread, people
demanding to be paid for their labor in food or guns
or coal because they see the government's money
as worthless, retirees watching their savings turn overnight
from a comfortable nest egg into not enough to buy a cup
of coffee. Is that the economic paradise you want
to live in?
> > > Given that, the Federal Reserve could save a lot of money if they just
> > > stopped printing money and started handling their affairs
> > > electronically. When the banks need more money, someone at the Fed
> > > just logs in and changes the number for them. That way they don't
> > > have to physically ship money all over the place, wasting gas and
> > > trees.
>
> > I think we're almost at the point where electronic money
> > can become the standard. This is a completely different
> > subject from your "print money until everything gets
> > better" idea.
>
> Your idea would probably place a value on the number of "credits" you
> have in electronic money. That just leads to more of the same, and
> opens the channels for hanky panky. And who says that someone at the
> bank hasn't gone into various accounts, already, to change the
> balance?
The vast majority of American money only exists as
electronic records, Damaeus - it's been that way for
decades now.
> What I'm against is putting so much power into the hands of so few to
> control interest rates and the supply of money, therefore its value.
>
> Bottle caps could be used as currency as easily as cash. But by
> limiting cash to control its value, you turn it into paper gold. And
> whoever controls that paper (the federal reserve) has the country over
> a barrel.
You are aware who the Federal Reserve works for, aren't you?
Since you're missing some critical details about how money
works, you're failing to realize that inelastic currency won't
solve your problem. What is the difference, to you, between
you having half as many dollars as you used to and prices
remaining constant, or you having as many dollars as you
do now and everything costing twice as many dollars to buy?
> > If one billion dollars represents the total wealth of our society
> > today, and tonight you print another one billion dollars, then
> > tomorrow two billion dollars represents the total wealth of our
> > society - you haven't increased society's wealth, you've just
> > reduced the value of each unit of representation of that wealth
> > by half.
>
> And by limiting the amount of CASH money people have to spend, you
> limit production. You limit the rate at which natural resources of
> the earth can be converted to wealth.
By increasing the amount of CASH money in circulation,
you reduce the value of each unit of that cash. Since
you've managed to get yourself deeply in debt, you
see that as a good thing - if each dollar is worth a
tenth as much, then each thousand dollars you owe
people is only worth a hundred dollars, you hope
that your income in dollars will go up (even as the
value of each dollar goes down) and you'll be able
to erase your debts. What you fail to realize is the
economic disaster that will happen in the process.
You can't make everyone rich by just printing dollar
bills, Damaeus. Money has no inherent value, only
the value the economic reality gives it. Making more
physical representations of inherently worthless
items doesn't do anything to stimulate the economy,
all it does it destroy the assigned value of those
units already in use.
--
Walt