The perpetual calendar
Andrew Usher
and attempting in passing to create a more perfect Church calendar, I
say the following:
1. That Christmas day should be fixed to a Sunday, and this should be
the Sunday between Dec. 21 and 27, and that in all civilised countries
the Monday should be considered a holiday, or the Saturday if not
normally.
2. That similarly Easter day should be fixed to the Sunday which is 15
weeks following Christmas.
3. That the leap year rule be changed to have a leap year occur every
fourth save that it be delayed when the leap year would start on a
Thursday, and that this gives 7 leap years in every 29, which is near
enough.
4. That the perpetual calendar can be made, by considering the first
day of the year of weeks to occur on the Sunday after the Assumption,
and if this is the first possible calendar day, it is called week 1,
and otherwise week 2, and every year runs through week 53. And this
calendar ensures that everything can be fixed to a day of a certain
week, in particular the American Thanksgiving must be made 31 days
before Christmas.
6. This is surely the best possible arrangement that can be made,
without disturbing the cycle of weeks or that of calendar days
inherited from the Romans.
Andrew Usher
Sam Wormley
> Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of the calendar...
Why not get rid of the calendar altogether... thru the
majority of human existance none was used.
Ray O'Hara
"Andrew Usher" <k_over...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:65e2a2e7-1aef-4872...@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
The calendar has several sources, not just the Rome and the onewe habe in
fine as it is.
ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com
True enough, but...
Prior to about 10,000 years ago, humans lived as hunter-gatherers and
had little need for a calendar.
During the Neolithic Revolution, humans "invented" agriculture, established
permanent settlements, domesticated animals, and started using metal tools.
At about this time, the calendar was invented.
If you want to live as a hunter-gatherer wandering the wilderness, hunting
for rabbits and grubbing for berries to stay alive, go ahead and throw away
your calendar.
If you like any of the advances humans have made in the last 10,000 years,
like a permanent structure to shelter you from the elements and food on a
regular basis, I guess you are stuck with calendars.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
Halmyre
> "Andrew Usher" <k_over_hb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
I just wish they'd settle on a date for Easter and be done with it.
--
Halmyre
James Hogg
Give the sound of your name, I suppose you would also renumber the
years, with year 1 in what is now 4004 BC.
--
James
R H Draney
>
>Andrew Usher wrote:
>> Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of the calendar,
>> and attempting in passing to create a more perfect Church calendar, I
>> say the following:
>>
>> 1. That Christmas day should be fixed to a Sunday, and this should be
>> the Sunday between Dec. 21 and 27, and that in all civilised countries
>> the Monday should be considered a holiday, or the Saturday if not
>> normally.
<et seq>
>
>Give the sound of your name, I suppose you would also renumber the
>years, with year 1 in what is now 4004 BC.
I'm taking a survey...how many were thinking something along the same lines?...
(On a more serious note, I'd like to see an actual printed calendar for Andrew's
proposed system...I have a gnawing unease that it may actually make Friday the
13th *more* common than it is already)....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
John Atkinson
well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you suggesting that we
only take holidays at Easter every four years or so, when your “settled”
date just happens to correspond with the right lunar phase?
J.
James Hogg
My Book of Common Prayer makes things easy by pointing out that "the
moon referred to in the definition of Easter Day is not the actual moon
of the heavens, but the Calendar Moon, or Moon of the Lunar Cycle, which
is counted as full on its fourteenth day, reckoned from the day of the
Calendar New Moon inclusive." Also, in a Bissextile Year "the number of
Sundays after Epiphany will be the same, as if Easter Day had fallen one
day later than it really does."
What could be simpler?
--
James
Ruud Harmsen
in sci.lang:
>What could be simpler?
The Jewish calendar.
--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com
James Hogg
> Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:34:10 +0100: James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>:
> in sci.lang:
>
>> What could be simpler?
>
> The Jewish calendar.
Is Pesach easier to calculate than Easter?
--
James
Ruud Harmsen
in sci.lang:
>Ruud Harmsen wrote:
>> Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:34:10 +0100: James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>:
>> in sci.lang:
>>
>>> What could be simpler?
>>
>> The Jewish calendar.
>
>Is Pesach easier to calculate than Easter?
Yes, because it's always on the same date (like all the other Festive
Days) in the Jewish calendar.
14-21/22 Nisan.
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesach
Trond Engen
> Halmyre wrote:
>
>> On 19 Feb, 04:58, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "Andrew Usher" <k_over_hb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:65e2a2e7-1aef-4872...@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>> Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of the
>>>> calendar, and attempting in passing to create a more perfect Church
>>>> calendar, I say the following: [...]
>>>
>>> The calendar has several sources, not just the Rome and the onewe habe
>>> in fine as it is
>>
>> I just wish they'd settle on a date for Easter and be done with it.
>
> But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! You might as
> well scrap the whole thing otherwise.
True. When accompanied by clear weather, as it often is, the full Easter
moon on the snow gives enough light to perform most tasks unaided. A
great help for those who spend Easter carrying a tent around in the
mountains. Clearly, a calendar that doesn't accomodate the needs of such
an important group isn't worth the van Gogh reproductions.
--
Trond Engen
Elijahovah
Peter T. Daniels
>
> My Book of Common Prayer makes things easy by pointing out that "the
> moon referred to in the definition of Easter Day is not the actual moon
> of the heavens, but the Calendar Moon, or Moon of the Lunar Cycle, which
> is counted as full on its fourteenth day, reckoned from the day of the
> Calendar New Moon inclusive." Also, in a Bissextile Year "the number of
> Sundays after Epiphany will be the same, as if Easter Day had fallen one
> day later than it really does."
Which is why Easter and Passover rarely coincide -- we happen to have
had a spate of coincidence in recent years, but that'll soon be over.
> What could be simpler?
The Muslim calendar -- no intercalated months, and no connection with
the solar year. So Ramadan drifts through the seasons.
António Marques
7
> Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of the calendar,
> and attempting in passing to create a more perfect Church calendar, I
> say the following:
>
> 1. That Christmas day should be fixed to a Sunday, and this should be
> the Sunday between Dec. 21 and 27, and that in all civilised countries
> the Monday should be considered a holiday, or the Saturday if not
> normally.
What about Thor's Day, or Thursday?
I don't like it where its at.
Can we move it to Friday?
So I get that Friday feelin a lot earlier.
And while you are at it, can you switch Monday
with Wednesday so that Monday feels more like a Wednesday to avoid
the dreaded Monday mornin feelin.
António Marques
> António Marques wrote:
>
>> Last time I looked, Symmetry454 was the epitome of calendar reform:
>>
>> http://individual.utoronto.ca/kalendis/symmetry.htm
>
> change in the calendar, though? If it is, then I question the need for
> every country in the world to celebrate purely USA political and
> social events (the yellow shaded days), which were said to be
> "permanently fixed". On that basis alone, I would say it resoundingly
> fails.
How can you even *think* that is the case?? How can you even *notice* the
holidays shown are US-specific? Obviously the US holidays are there to
illustrate how it works, not to be used universally. Likewise the numerals
and month names. Sheesh.
Antares 531
Back before it became "Easter" and was still a celebration of Queen
Ishtar's glory, with the rabbit and the egg as fertility symbols, what
date was used? Gordon
Yusuf B Gursey
Ramadan is celebrated according to the actual siting of the crescent,
not the (various) algorithms used for civil purposes, though I think
some "cheat" by using the algorithms (there are a couple most
frequently used). last time in Iraq the Shia and the Sunni observed it
at different dates. so it is rather complicated.
Yusuf B Gursey
>
> My Book of Common Prayer makes things easy by pointing out that "the
> moon referred to in the definition of Easter Day is not the actual moon
> of the heavens, but the Calendar Moon, or Moon of the Lunar Cycle, which
> is counted as full on its fourteenth day, reckoned from the day of the
> Calendar New Moon inclusive." Also, in a Bissextile Year "the number of
> Sundays after Epiphany will be the same, as if Easter Day had fallen one
> day later than it really does."
the Orthodox (Eastern) churches have a slightly different system.
dunno exactly what it is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter
Easter
...
Easter is a moveable feast, meaning it is not fixed in relation to the
civil calendar. The First Council of Nicaea (325) established the date
of Easter as the first Sunday after the full moon (the Paschal Full
Moon) following the vernal equinox.[3] Ecclesiastically, the equinox
is reckoned to be on March 21 (regardless of the astronomically
correct date), and the "Full Moon" is not necessarily the
astronomically correct date. The date of Easter therefore varies
between March 22 and April 25. Eastern Christianity bases its
calculations on the Julian Calendar whose March 21 corresponds, during
the twenty-first century, to April 3 in the Gregorian Calendar, in
which calendar their celebration of Easter therefore varies between
April 4 and May 8.
Yusuf B Gursey
> Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:34:10 +0100: James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com>:
> in sci.lang:
>
> >What could be simpler?
>
> The Jewish calendar.
the Jewish Calendar has a complicated algorithm, IIRC refined by the
famous 18th cent. mathematician Euler.
the complications are due to making sure that certain holidays do not
fall on certain days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_Calendar
<<
Hebrew calendar
...
Special holiday rules
Adjustments are made to ensure certain holy days and festivals do or
do not fall on certain days of the week.
Yom Kippur
Adjustments are made to ensure that Yom Kippur, on which no work can
be done, does not fall on Friday (the day prior to the Sabbath) to
avoid having Yom Kippur's restrictions still going on at the start of
Sabbath, or on Sunday (the day after Shabbat) to avoid having the
Shabbat restrictions still going on at the start of Yom Kippur.
The Rosh Hashanah postponement rules are the mechanism used to make
the adjustments. As Yom Kippur falls on Tishrei 10, and Rosh Hashanah
falls on the 1st, the adjustment is made so that Rosh Hashanah does
not fall on a Wednesday or Friday.
To ensure that Yom Kippur does not directly precede or follow Shabbat,
and that Hoshana Rabbah is not on a Shabbat, in which case certain
ceremonies would be lost for a year, the first day of Rosh Hashanah
may only occur on Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Saturdays (the
"four gates"). Adjustments are made to ensure that Rosh Hashanah does
not fall on the other three days. To achieve that result the year may
be made into a short (chaser) year (both Kislev and Cheshvan have 29
days) or full (maleh) year (both Kislev and Cheshvan have 30 days).
(see table)
The day of the week on which Rosh Hashanah falls in any given year
will also be the day on which Sukkot and Shmini Atzeret will occur.
>>
>
> --
> Ruud Harmsen,http://rudhar.com
>>
António Marques
> the Orthodox (Eastern) churches have a slightly different system.
> dunno exactly what it is.
Afaik the system is the same, it's March 21 that is different.
Mike Barnes
>Halmyre wrote:
>>
>> I just wish they'd settle on a date for Easter and be done with it.
>>
>But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon!
A full-*ish* moon, actually. The definitions of the equinox and full
moon used when determining Easter are rather different from the real
definitions used by astronomers, which would actually give rise to
different (perhaps several weeks different) Easter dates depending on
one's longitude.
But I thought that for most people the whole point of Easter is that
they get time off work.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Evan Kirshenbaum
Which years were those? I had thought that the current Easter rules
made it impossible for it to fall on the 15th of Nissan.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |We never met anyone who believed in
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |fortune cookies. That's astounding.
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Belief in the precognitive powers
|of an Asian pastry is really no
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |wackier than belief in ESP,
(650)857-7572 |subluxation, or astrology, but you
|just don't hear anyone preaching
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |Scientific Cookie-ism.
| Penn and Teller
LFS
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@verizon.net> writes:
>
>> On Feb 19, 4:34 am, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> My Book of Common Prayer makes things easy by pointing out that
>>> "the moon referred to in the definition of Easter Day is not the
>>> actual moon of the heavens, but the Calendar Moon, or Moon of the
>>> Lunar Cycle, which is counted as full on its fourteenth day,
>>> reckoned from the day of the Calendar New Moon inclusive." Also, in
>>> a Bissextile Year "the number of Sundays after Epiphany will be the
>>> same, as if Easter Day had fallen one day later than it really
>>> does."
>> Which is why Easter and Passover rarely coincide -- we happen to have
>> had a spate of coincidence in recent years, but that'll soon be over.
>
> Which years were those? I had thought that the current Easter rules
> made it impossible for it to fall on the 15th of Nissan.
>
I understood that it is not actually impossible but that the coincidence
is very rare. ISTR it happened at some point in the early 1980s. Of
course, Passover week quite often covers Good Friday and Easter Sunday -
it does this year.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Peter T. Daniels
> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> writes:
>
> > On Feb 19, 4:34 am, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
> >> My Book of Common Prayer makes things easy by pointing out that
> >> "the moon referred to in the definition of Easter Day is not the
> >> actual moon of the heavens, but the Calendar Moon, or Moon of the
> >> Lunar Cycle, which is counted as full on its fourteenth day,
> >> reckoned from the day of the Calendar New Moon inclusive." Also, in
> >> a Bissextile Year "the number of Sundays after Epiphany will be the
> >> same, as if Easter Day had fallen one day later than it really
> >> does."
>
> > Which is why Easter and Passover rarely coincide -- we happen to have
> > had a spate of coincidence in recent years, but that'll soon be over.
>
> Which years were those? I had thought that the current Easter rules
> made it impossible for it to fall on the 15th of Nissan.
I think it was two years ago that the first night of Passover was on
Holy Thursday (or vice versa), which precisely reproduced the
historical occasion.
Why would the "current" Easter rules have such a restriction? There's
certainly nothing about it in the several pages of small type in the
front of the Book of Common Prayer (1928), which I read plenty of
times while waiting for Morning Prayer to end.
Peter T. Daniels
They _do_ publish calendars that cover more than the next 29 1/2 days,
don't they? Such information _can_ be calculated (and was calculated
3000 years ago in Mesopotamia), and varies from site to site depending
on latitude, weather, and surrounding terrain (i.e., where's the
horizon?).
Yusuf B Gursey
some allow calculation, but conservatives wait for a fatwa from the
religious authorities to commence Ramadan, and this is the practice in
many muslim countries. as I said before, in Iraq this resulted in the
Shia and the Sunni observing Ramadan with a days difference.for other
religious days, the algorithm may be used, but there are several
versions of that, some being more common than others.
Yusuf B Gursey
but for the Orthodox, the Gregorian calendar has been accepted for
other holidays. the Monophysites (Copts, Armenians, Jacobite Syrians)
observe Christmas at a different date for other reasons.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> On Feb 19, 11:52�am, Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenb...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> writes:
>>
>> > On Feb 19, 4:34 am, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>> >> My Book of Common Prayer makes things easy by pointing out that
>> >> "the moon referred to in the definition of Easter Day is not the
>> >> actual moon of the heavens, but the Calendar Moon, or Moon of
>> >> the Lunar Cycle, which is counted as full on its fourteenth day,
>> >> reckoned from the day of the Calendar New Moon inclusive." Also,
>> >> in a Bissextile Year "the number of Sundays after Epiphany will
>> >> be the same, as if Easter Day had fallen one day later than it
>> >> really does."
>>
>> > Which is why Easter and Passover rarely coincide -- we happen to
>> > have had a spate of coincidence in recent years, but that'll soon
>> > be over.
>>
>> Which years were those? �I had thought that the current Easter
>> rules made it impossible for it to fall on the 15th of Nissan.
>
> I think it was two years ago that the first night of Passover was on
> Holy Thursday (or vice versa), which precisely reproduced the
> historical occasion.
Oh, that's what you meant. I though that you were talking about
Passover and Easter actually occurring on the same day. But if Holy
Thursday is taken to run from midnight to midnight (rather than
sundown to sundown), I don't think that that's possible, since the
Hebrew calendar doesn't let Pesach fall on a Friday (with the seder on
the preceding Thursday night). Of course, it also prohibits it from
falling on a Monday, so a seder is never on a Sunday night.
> Why would the "current" Easter rules have such a restriction?
> There's certainly nothing about it in the several pages of small
> type in the front of the Book of Common Prayer (1928), which I read
> plenty of times while waiting for Morning Prayer to end.
My admittedly fuzzy memory was that one of the Nicean councils had
taken that as one of its constraints when setting up the rules that
the two never coincide. The Wikipedia page on the First Council of
Nicea says that I was wrong, but says it explicitly:
Nor did the Council decree that Easter must never coincide with
Nisan 15 (the first Day of Unleavened Bread, now commonly called
"Passover") in the Hebrew calendar.
which implies that it must be a common misconception.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Bullwinkle: You sure that's the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | only way?
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Rocky: Well, if you're going to be
| a hero, you've got to do
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | stupid things every once in
(650)857-7572 | a while.
Halmyre
We don't have Christmas only when there's a bright star in the east.
It's like saying "I was born on a Wednesday, so I'll only celebrate my
birthday when it falls on a Wednesday".
--
Halmyre
Cheryl
>> date just happens to correspond with the right lunar phase?
>>
>
> We don't have Christmas only when there's a bright star in the east.
>
> It's like saying "I was born on a Wednesday, so I'll only celebrate my
> birthday when it falls on a Wednesday".
>
> --
> Halmyre
I suppose it all comes down to how much predictability each person
likes. Some people like all their holidays to come at the same time each
year, and others are happy to put up with Easter, for example, coming
late some years because other years it comes nice and early, which makes
a much-needed break in a long winter. I never did consider Easter to be
necessarily a spring holiday, myself.
Of course, people living in places where they already have public
holidays in all three of the dreary months of January, February and
March wouldn't greet an early Easter with as much enthusiasm as I do.
And I know Easter doesn't occur in January or February, but they seem
much longer than they are when Easter comes in the latter part of April;
and slightly shorter than they are when I have a March Easter to look
forward to.
I want an official long holiday weekend in every single month, no
exceptions.
--
Cheryl
JimboCat
> Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of the calendar,
> and attempting in passing to create a more perfect Church calendar, I
> say the following:
> 6. This is surely the best possible arrangement that can be made,
> without disturbing the cycle of weeks or that of calendar days
> inherited from the Romans.
Nonsense! JRR Tolkien's creation of the "Shire Reckoning" is clearly
the ultimate in rationality and convenience for a perpetual calendar.
The year is divided into twelve months of thirty days each, with five
additional days to make up a full 365-day year; six additional days in
leap years. The additional days are not part of any week or month, so
any date always falls on the same day of the week. And, of course,
these additional days are always holidays, accompanied by festive
eating and drinking in what my generation tends still to call "mass
quantities".
I didn't find a really good explanation of the system in a quick
google search. Read the Appendix to JRRT's /The Lord of the Rings/ for
the complete low-down.
Jim Deutch (JimboCat)
--
My adversary's argument
is not alone malevolent
but ignorant to boot.
He hasn't even got the sense
to state his so-called evidence
in terms I can refute.
- Piet Hein, /The Untenable Argument/
Andrew Usher
> (On a more serious note, I'd like to see an actual printed calendar for Andrew's
> proposed system...I have a gnawing unease that it may actually make Friday the
> 13th *more* common than it is already)....
I did not investigate this, as it is a useless superstition -
Nevertheless, I can see now that it would make Fridays the 13th
slightly less common than now.
Andrew Usher
Andrew Usher
> > I just wish they'd settle on a date for Easter and be done with it.
>
> But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! You might as
> well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you suggesting that we
> only take holidays at Easter every four years or so, when your “settled”
> date just happens to correspond with the right lunar phase?
I was taking into account the words of the Catholic Church that it
would not be objectionable to fix Easter to a particular Sunday. But
it must be a Sunday, and so the best that can be done is a range of 7
days, which my proposal accomplishes - Apr.5-11, which is exactly the
middle of the current range.
Andrew Usher
Andrew Usher
> > I think it was two years ago that the first night of Passover was on
> > Holy Thursday (or vice versa), which precisely reproduced the
> > historical occasion.
>
> Oh, that's what you meant. I though that you were talking about
> Passover and Easter actually occurring on the same day. But if Holy
> Thursday is taken to run from midnight to midnight (rather than
> sundown to sundown), I don't think that that's possible, since the
> Hebrew calendar doesn't let Pesach fall on a Friday (with the seder on
> the preceding Thursday night).
In Christ's time, there was no such rule, clearly.
Andrew Usher
Andrew Usher
> On Feb 18, 11:13 pm, Andrew Usher <k_over_hb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of the calendar,
> > and attempting in passing to create a more perfect Church calendar, I
> > say the following:
> [snip]
> > 6. This is surely the best possible arrangement that can be made,
> > without disturbing the cycle of weeks or that of calendar days
> > inherited from the Romans.
>
> Nonsense! JRR Tolkien's creation of the "Shire Reckoning" is clearly
> the ultimate in rationality and convenience for a perpetual calendar.
>
> The year is divided into twelve months of thirty days each, with five
> additional days to make up a full 365-day year; six additional days in
> leap years. The additional days are not part of any week or month, so
> any date always falls on the same day of the week.
I said precisely that there must not be days outside the week.
Andrew Usher
Andrew Usher
> > But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! You might as
> > well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you suggesting that we
> > only take holidays at Easter every four years or so, when your “settled”
> > date just happens to correspond with the right lunar phase?
>
> We don't have Christmas only when there's a bright star in the east.
>
> It's like saying "I was born on a Wednesday, so I'll only celebrate my
> birthday when it falls on a Wednesday".
The reason I fix Christmas to a Sunday has been my observation that
arranging a family Christmas is substantially more convenient when it
falls on a weekend than in the middle of the week. Given that
Christmas is the most important holiday in the year, should we not all
get at least a 3-day weekend, which we have for lesser holidays?
Andrew Usher
Cheryl
> On Feb 19, 11:52 am, Halmyre <flashgordonreced...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! You might as
>>> well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you suggesting that we
>>> date just happens to correspond with the right lunar phase?
>> We don't have Christmas only when there's a bright star in the east.
>>
>> It's like saying "I was born on a Wednesday, so I'll only celebrate my
>> birthday when it falls on a Wednesday".
>
> The reason I fix Christmas to a Sunday has been my observation that
> arranging a family Christmas is substantially more convenient when it
> falls on a weekend than in the middle of the week. Given that
> Christmas is the most important holiday in the year, should we not all
> get at least a 3-day weekend, which we have for lesser holidays?
>
> Andrew Usher
The thing is that depending on your job, local holidays (eg whether
Boxing Day is included) and the fact that New Year's Day comes so
closely after Christmas Day, judicious use of annual leave days can give
much more than three days in a row off if Christmas Day itself is mid-week.
I would have thought that the summer holidays were far more important,
at least to families with school-aged children, and in the US,
Thanksgiving has an astonishing degree of importance.
--
Cheryl
António Marques
> António Marques wrote:
>
>> How can you even *think* that is the case?? How can you even
>> *notice* the holidays shown are US-specific? Obviously the US
>> holidays are there to illustrate how it works, not to be used
>> universally. Likewise the numerals and month names. Sheesh.
>
> indication at all that the holidays are there *merely* as an
> illustration, and the way it is described suggests a definite proposal
> of those dates (as well as the other holidays taken from a limited
> selection of other countries) to be holidays. Furthermore, given the
> lack of appreciation from some of the world's geography, it is not
> unreasonable to suppose that one should take what is proposed in that
> website at face-value. If they were there *merely* as an illustration,
> then that should have been made clearly known. So, it is not obvious
> at all, and your complaint that I have somehow been deficient in not
> engaging in mind-reading here is unwarranted.
>
> In fact, there should be no country-specific holidays shown at all if
> the intent is to try to persuade as many people as possible, from as
> many countries as possible, round to thinking this kind of calendar is
> a good thing. Instead, a better tactical move would be to always use
> generic names, holidays, and so on (like the "Mid-Quarter days"), with
> a note stating that additional holidays could be added, according to
> each country's requirements.
>
> So, it remains a failure if its intent is merely to illustrate the
> concept because it fails to explicitly say that it is just an
> illustration, and it fails to mention the country-specific
> customizations of the holidays explicitly. Furthermore, if the overall
> aim is persuade people from different countries round to accepting the
> concept, the above slip ups are compounded into a tactical error
> brought about by this by seeming to insist on just a small limited
> number of specified country's holidays, which will not persuade people
> from different countries to accept the proposals.
A word of advice: when your interpretation of something makes no sense at
all, and yet a tiny change in one of your assumptions may make all the
nonsense go away, be prepared to revise your assumption. Communication only
works thanks to the ability of both parties to infer the strictly unstated.
It's only natural that unnecessary disambiguation be omitted. That can lead
to misunderstading at times, but it's the price to pay for efficiency.
Another one: when you come across some idea/proposal that appears to have
some obvious flaw, which however can be left out with no impact at all on
the rest, feel free to leave it out and just evaluate the rest.
ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com
Less than around 30% of the world population cares about Christmas or
Easter or think that "Christmas is the most important holiday in the year".
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
Cheryl
But just about all of them in the northern hemisphere want a big break
in the middle of the winter, whatever the reason or name for the
holiday. I expect that the southerners would like a break in the middle
of their summer, but I don't know that myself.
--
Cheryl
António Marques
Christmas is a feast that was established late, based on arbitrary
convention, and of relatively minor religious standing (the feast, not the
event it commemorates).
Easter is the central feast of Christianity, would be an end in itself if
nothing else, and of which all the particulars have the highest religious
significance. (Regardless of whatever pagan festivals coincide with it in
date or outward meaning.)
Chocolate bunnies and eggs, you can put them everywhere you like, but that's
not Easter.
Evan Kirshenbaum
Right. They would still have been depending on observation of the new
moon to establish Rosh Chodesh, the first of the month, and ordering a
leap month by fiat when it seemed to be necessary to keep Passover in
the spring (Wikipedia says, plausibly, that this happened when the
barley wasn't yet ripe at the beginning of what would have been Nissan
(originally "Aviv").)
I think that by then there may already have been rules that bumped
certain months by a day to keep certain holidays (e.g., Yom Kippur)
from falling on certain days (which is the actual reason that the
modern calendar happens to never have Nissan 15 falling on a Friday),
but they would have kicked in on the specific months in question
(e.g., Tishrei for Yom Kippur).
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If all else fails, embarrass the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |industry into doing the right
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |thing.
| Dean Thompson
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com
Why wouldn't both want the same breaks at the same seasonal times?
Also, the vast majority of the Asian countries lie north of the equator
and most Asians couldn't care less about Christian or Western holidays.
António Marques
Don't tell them it's the gregorian calendar! It's the revised julian.
Don't call the others monophysites, they prefer miaphysite.
The Finnish Orthodox Church is said to have adopted the gregorian calendar.
Of the other Orthodox, some have adopted the revised julian for fixed feasts
but keep the julian for moveable ones. The moveable ones are the important
ones. The use of two calendars wreaks havoc with the liturgical year.
Aatu Koskensilta
> The Finnish Orthodox Church is said to have adopted the gregorian
> calendar.
This is indeed so.
--
Aatu Koskensilta (aatu.kos...@uta.fi)
"Wovon man nicht sprechan kann, dar�ber muss man schweigen"
- Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus
António Marques
> António Marques wrote:
>
>> A word of advice: when your interpretation of something makes no
>> sense at all, and yet a tiny change in one of your assumptions may
>> make all the nonsense go away, be prepared to revise your
>> assumption. Communication only works thanks to the ability of both
>> parties to infer the strictly unstated. It's only natural that
>> unnecessary disambiguation be omitted. That can lead to
>> misunderstading at times, but it's the price to pay for efficiency.
>
> to interpret proposals at face-value with minimal mangling of
> interpretations by guesses as to a intended interpretation. It is a
> necessity in many serious areas of academic endeavour.
Of course. But there is no such thing as a literal reading. It always
involves interpretation. The interpretation that someone who went to the
trouble of thinking up that calendar actually intends the whole world to
follow american holidays may have been the first one that occurred to you,
but is too outlandish to take seriously without evidence. You might have
equally read it as implying that everyone should use the same month names
(not even translating them) that are used in the calendar's presentation.
It's just as warranted.
>> Another one: when you come across some idea/proposal that appears to
>> have some obvious flaw, which however can be left out with no impact
>> at all on the rest, feel free to leave it out and just evaluate the
>> rest.
>
> Why not work to help improve the proposal for everyone by mentioning
> flaws that need attention? Criticism can be positive as well as
> negative.
Of course. You'd be quite right to point out to the owner of the website
that he could disambiguate.
António Marques
> In sci.physics Andrew Usher<k_over...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 19, 11:52 am, Halmyre<flashgordonreced...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! You
>>>> might as well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you
>>>> suggesting that we only take holidays at Easter every four years or
>>>> so, when your “settled” date just happens to correspond with the
>>>> right lunar phase?
>>>
>>> We don't have Christmas only when there's a bright star in the east.
>>>
>>> It's like saying "I was born on a Wednesday, so I'll only celebrate
>>> my birthday when it falls on a Wednesday".
>>
>> The reason I fix Christmas to a Sunday has been my observation that
>> arranging a family Christmas is substantially more convenient when it
>> falls on a weekend than in the middle of the week. Given that Christmas
>> is the most important holiday in the year, should we not all get at
>> least a 3-day weekend, which we have for lesser holidays?
>
> Easter or think that "Christmas is the most important holiday in the
> year".
Well, but for those who don't it doesn't really matter one way or the other
what day Christmas and Easter Sunday are, does it? So what relevance do they
have for you to bring them along? Or was it just the desire to sound clever?
Andrew Usher
> >> The reason I fix Christmas to a Sunday has been my observation that
> >> arranging a family Christmas is substantially more convenient when it
> >> falls on a weekend than in the middle of the week. Given that Christmas
> >> is the most important holiday in the year, should we not all get at
> >> least a 3-day weekend, which we have for lesser holidays?
>
> > Less than around 30% of the world population cares about Christmas or
> > Easter or think that "Christmas is the most important holiday in the
> > year".
>
> Well, but for those who don't it doesn't really matter one way or the other
> what day Christmas and Easter Sunday are, does it? So what relevance do they
> have for you to bring them along? Or was it just the desire to sound clever?
Right, and I figure that my calendar would be no worse than the
present for those that don't.
Indeed, I considered this problem purely as a logical one; as I've
stated, I don't consider myself Christian, I adopted the Church
calendar as a base only because it makes the problem more interesting.
I didn't consider my calendar complete until I worked out my new leap
year rule (Rule #3) - it not only ensures that both Christmas and
Easter are within 7-day periods despite being a constant distance from
each other and having leap day in between, it simultaneously causes
there to be exactly 52 Sundays in every year if you take out Nov. 1
which is All Saints' day; this immediately allows te to draw up a
permanent list of the Sundays in the year with their traditional
Christian designations, and then follow the perpetual calendar.
And I moved the start of the week numbering to August from Nov. 1 so
that the academic year and the US football season would be on the
fixed schedule, and I think there can be no objection to that. The
holidays I consider are Christmas and Easter (and of course the Church
festivals fixed to them, but hardly anyone cares anymore), and US
Thanksgiving - but other civil holidays could easily be fixed to the
same if they are now observed on a Monday, say, or otherwise not fixed
to a particular date.
Andrew Usher
Brian M. Scott
<dado...@spamcop.net> wrote in
<news:hllka...@drn.newsguy.com> in
sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english:
> James Hogg filted:
>>Andrew Usher wrote:
>>> Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of
>>> the calendar, and attempting in passing to create a
>>> more perfect Church calendar, I say the following:
[...]
>> Give the sound of your name, I suppose you would also
>> renumber the years, with year 1 in what is now 4004 BC.
> I'm taking a survey...how many were thinking something
> along the same lines?...
I was.
[...]
Brian
Jonathan Morton
news:896542a4-e823-450a...@w31g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>Easter is a moveable feast, meaning it is not fixed in relation to the
>civil calendar. The First Council of Nicaea (325) established the date
>of Easter as the first Sunday after the full moon (the Paschal Full
>Moon) following the vernal equinox.[3] Ecclesiastically, the equinox
>is reckoned to be on March 21 (regardless of the astronomically
>correct date), and the "Full Moon" is not necessarily the
>astronomically correct date. The date of Easter therefore varies
>between March 22 and April 25.
It does, but at present (certainly until 2199, at which point we move to a
new table) it is not capable of falling on 22 March. Of course we had 23
March in 2008 and there's a 24 April coming up next year.
Regards
Jonathan
Jonathan Morton
Brian M. Scott
<anton...@sapo.pt> wrote in
<news:hlmpb4$c42$1...@news.eternal-september.org> in
sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english:
[...]
> Chocolate bunnies and eggs, you can put them everywhere
> you like, but that's not Easter.
For me, growing up, that was exactly Easter. It was a minor
holiday, along with Thanksgiving and Hallowe'en; the major
holiday was Christmas.
Brian
Cheryl
Which academic year are you considering? I can think of several
variations - K-12 vs universities and colleges, to begin with, and there
are even variations among the K-12 school years in different
jurisdictions - and even within the same one, in places where some
schools have a year-round schedule.
I will confess to being totally indifferent to the US football schedule.
In fact, I couldn't tell you what it is now, except for a vague
impression that it occurs in the fall, or possibly winter.
--
Cheryl
Androcles
"Cheryl" <cper...@mun.ca> wrote in message
news:7u8gk9...@mid.individual.net...
The USA doesn't have a football schedule. The rest of the world plays
football, the USA calls that soccer and then plays it's own version of
parochial handball.
ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com
That a calendar serves a purpose beyond keeping track of regional, ethnic,
or religious "celebrations" of one small group.
And trying to come up with a new calendar fixating on Christmas is about
as logical as fixating on Waitangi Day.
Andrew Usher
> > Well, but for those who don't it doesn't really matter one way or the other
> > what day Christmas and Easter Sunday are, does it? So what relevance do they
> > have for you to bring them along? Or was it just the desire to sound clever?
>
> That a calendar serves a purpose beyond keeping track of regional, ethnic,
> or religious "celebrations" of one small group.
It's hardly a small group, indeed perhaps larger than that for any
other significant holiday in the world. And the Gregorian calendar
that we use as already European-centered.
> And trying to come up with a new calendar fixating on Christmas is about
> as logical as fixating on Waitangi Day.
This is just West-bashing.
Andrew Usher
Peter T. Daniels
> Halmyre wrote:
> > On 19 Feb, 09:12, John Atkinson <johna...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> >> Halmyre wrote:
> >>>> "Andrew Usher" <k_over_hb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:65e2a2e7-1aef-4872...@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>> Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of the calendar,
> >>>>> and attempting in passing to create a more perfect Church calendar, I
> >>>>> say the following:
> >>>>> the Sunday between Dec. 21 and 27, and that in all civilised countries
> >>>>> the Monday should be considered a holiday, or the Saturday if not
> >>>>> normally.
> >>>>> 2. That similarly Easter day should be fixed to the Sunday which is 15
> >>>>> weeks following Christmas.
> >>>>> 3. That the leap year rule be changed to have a leap year occur every
> >>>>> fourth save that it be delayed when the leap year would start on a
> >>>>> Thursday, and that this gives 7 leap years in every 29, which is near
> >>>>> enough.
> >>>>> 4. That the perpetual calendar can be made, by considering the first
> >>>>> day of the year of weeks to occur on the Sunday after the Assumption,
> >>>>> and if this is the first possible calendar day, it is called week 1,
> >>>>> and otherwise week 2, and every year runs through week 53. And this
> >>>>> calendar ensures that everything can be fixed to a day of a certain
> >>>>> week, in particular the American Thanksgiving must be made 31 days
> >>>>> before Christmas.
> >>>>> 6. This is surely the best possible arrangement that can be made,
> >>>>> without disturbing the cycle of weeks or that of calendar days
> >>>>> inherited from the Romans.
> >>>> The calendar has several sources, not just the Rome and the onewe habe in
> >>>> fine as it is
> >>> I just wish they'd settle on a date for Easter and be done with it.
> >> well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you suggesting that we
> >> only take holidays at Easter every four years or so, when your “settled”
> >> date just happens to correspond with the right lunar phase?
>
> > We don't have Christmas only when there's a bright star in the east.
>
> > It's like saying "I was born on a Wednesday, so I'll only celebrate my
> > birthday when it falls on a Wednesday".
>
> > Halmyre
>
> I suppose it all comes down to how much predictability each person
> likes. Some people like all their holidays to come at the same time each
> year, and others are happy to put up with Easter, for example, coming
> late some years because other years it comes nice and early, which makes
> a much-needed break in a long winter. I never did consider Easter to be
> necessarily a spring holiday, myself.
>
> Of course, people living in places where they already have public
> holidays in all three of the dreary months of January, February and
> March wouldn't greet an early Easter with as much enthusiasm as I do.
>
> And I know Easter doesn't occur in January or February, but they seem
> much longer than they are when Easter comes in the latter part of April;
> and slightly shorter than they are when I have a March Easter to look
> forward to.
>
> I want an official long holiday weekend in every single month, no
> exceptions.
I thought they should have used MLK Day to commemorate the March on
Washington, rather than his birthday, since there are no holidays in
August.
Andrew Usher
Robert Bannister
Really, the whole point of Easter is celebrating the coming of northern
hemisphere Spring, so it were better to change the date completely.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
> Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of the calendar,
> and attempting in passing to create a more perfect Church calendar, I
> say the following:
>
> 1. That Christmas day should be fixed to a Sunday, and this should be
> the Sunday between Dec. 21 and 27, and that in all civilised countries
> the Monday should be considered a holiday, or the Saturday if not
> normally.
>
> 2. That similarly Easter day should be fixed to the Sunday which is 15
> weeks following Christmas.
>
> 3. That the leap year rule be changed to have a leap year occur every
> fourth save that it be delayed when the leap year would start on a
> Thursday, and that this gives 7 leap years in every 29, which is near
> enough.
>
> 4. That the perpetual calendar can be made, by considering the first
> day of the year of weeks to occur on the Sunday after the Assumption,
> and if this is the first possible calendar day, it is called week 1,
> and otherwise week 2, and every year runs through week 53. And this
> calendar ensures that everything can be fixed to a day of a certain
> week, in particular the American Thanksgiving must be made 31 days
> before Christmas.
>
> 6. This is surely the best possible arrangement that can be made,
> without disturbing the cycle of weeks or that of calendar days
> inherited from the Romans.
If you are going to try to make it sensible, then please give us 13
four-week months with one or two specially named days at the end of the
year to even it out. The first day of each month should be a Monday.
--
Rob Bannister
Andrew Usher
> > 6. This is surely the best possible arrangement that can be made,
> > without disturbing the cycle of weeks or that of calendar days
> > inherited from the Romans.
>
> If you are going to try to make it sensible, then please give us 13
> four-week months with one or two specially named days at the end of the
> year to even it out. The first day of each month should be a Monday.
Once again, I said that I excluded having days outside the week. And
the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that is an
incontrovertible fact.
Having 13 months, in addition, would screw up a bunch of things ; in
particular, 13 can't be divided.
Andrew Usher
Andrew Usher
> Easter is the central feast of Christianity, would be an end in itself if
> nothing else, and of which all the particulars have the highest religious
> significance. (Regardless of whatever pagan festivals coincide with it in
> date or outward meaning.)
I agree, but how does that mean we must celebrate Easter at the full
moon? (which the Orthodox don't, anyway)
Andrew Usher
Robert Bannister
And have you taken the southern hemisphere into consideration? Our
scholastic year is quite different.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
'Scuse me, what's rubbish about the rest of world playing that scoreless
drama with a round ball? Footballs may be different sizes and weights
and even the shape varies a bit, but they are basically ovoid. The other
game is for kids in the street.
--
Rob Bannister
Andrew Usher
> The USA doesn't have a football schedule. The rest of the world plays
> football, the USA calls that soccer and then plays it's own version of
> parochial handball.
Oh, that's a clever insight.
Andrew Usher
Yusuf B Gursey
<jonathan.mortonbutignorethisp...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> "Yusuf B Gursey" <y...@theworld.com> wrote in messagenews:896542a4-e823-450a...@w31g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
BTW I didn't write the quoted text.
Bart Mathias
> [...]
>>
>> Andrew Usher
>
> Give the sound of your name, I suppose you would also renumber the
> years, with year 1 in what is now 4004 BC.
Another one goes right over my head. What in the world is special about
how "Andrew Usher" sounds?
Oh, never mind. I just googled "4004 BC."
Bart Mathias
ji...@specsol.spam.sux.com
> On Feb 19, 4:56 pm, j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>
>> > Well, but for those who don't it doesn't really matter one way or the other
>> > what day Christmas and Easter Sunday are, does it? So what relevance do they
>> > have for you to bring them along? Or was it just the desire to sound clever?
>>
>> That a calendar serves a purpose beyond keeping track of regional, ethnic,
>> or religious "celebrations" of one small group.
>
> It's hardly a small group, indeed perhaps larger than that for any
> other significant holiday in the world. And the Gregorian calendar
> that we use as already European-centered.
New Years (of various sorts) is celebrated by far more people than is
Christmas.
>> And trying to come up with a new calendar fixating on Christmas is about
>> as logical as fixating on Waitangi Day.
>
> This is just West-bashing.
You have something against New Zealand?
OK, Labor Day, also known in some places as May Day and International
Worker's Day.
R H Draney
>
>"Wovon man nicht sprechan kann, dar�ber muss man schweigen"
> - Ludwig Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus
Dog Latin translation: "That man can't speak, but he sure can swing!"
....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
R H Draney
>
>On Feb 19, 1:02=A0pm, Cheryl <cperk...@mun.ca> wrote:
>>
>> I want an official long holiday weekend in every single month, no
>> exceptions.
>
>I thought they should have used MLK Day to commemorate the March on
>Washington, rather than his birthday, since there are no holidays in
>August.
I always thought it should be observed on the anniversary of his assassination,
so I could get my birthday off every year....
I also plumped for rolling back "Presidents' Day" to the original "Washington's
Birthday" and "Lincoln's Birthday", further suggesting that *every* president's
birthday should be a holiday...(Polk and Harding screwed things up by having
their birthdays on the same day of the year)...as luck would have it, at the
time I made this suggestion, that still would have left us with no holidays in
June (Bush Sr came along a year or two later)....r
R H Draney
>
>Androcles wrote:
>>
>> The USA doesn't have a football schedule. The rest of the world plays
>> football, the USA calls that soccer and then plays it's own version of
>> parochial handball.
One expects such a reaction from someone who inserts an apostrophe into
possessive "its"....
>'Scuse me, what's rubbish about the rest of world playing that scoreless
>drama with a round ball? Footballs may be different sizes and weights
>and even the shape varies a bit, but they are basically ovoid. The other
>game is for kids in the street.
*Poor* kids...with foreign accents...and brown skin....r
R H Draney
Guess you didn't need to have a house fall on you....r
R H Draney
>
>On Feb 19, 6:07=A0pm, Robert Bannister <robb...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>
>> If you are going to try to make it sensible, then please give us 13
>> four-week months with one or two specially named days at the end of the
>> year to even it out. The first day of each month should be a Monday.
>
>particular, 13 can't be divided.
Neither can seven, but very few calendar reformers have suggested that as a
reason to change the length of the week....r
Androcles
"R H Draney" <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:hlni3...@drn.newsguy.com...
> Robert Bannister filted:
>>
>>Androcles wrote:
>>>
>>> The USA doesn't have a football schedule. The rest of the world plays
>>> football, the USA calls that soccer and then plays it's own version of
>>> parochial handball.
>
> One expects such a reaction from someone who inserts an apostrophe into
> possessive "its"....
Oops... I forgot that is one possessive word that doesn't have an apostophe.
My's mistake.
What is "....", four thirds of an ellipsis ?
>>'Scuse me, what's rubbish about the rest of world playing that scoreless
>>drama with a round ball? Footballs may be different sizes and weights
>>and even the shape varies a bit, but they are basically ovoid. The other
>>game is for kids in the street.
>
> *Poor* kids...with foreign accents...and brown skin....r
>
>
I don't know that word, what does "....r" mean?
Brian M. Scott
<k_over...@yahoo.com> wrote in
<news:af2de314-5e50-4662...@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
in
sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english:
> On Feb 19, 4:56�pm, j...@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
[...]
>> And trying to come up with a new calendar fixating on
>> Christmas is about as logical as fixating on Waitangi
>> Day.
> This is just West-bashing.
Don't be silly: New Zealand is part of the cultural west.
Brian
Brian M. Scott
<k_over...@yahoo.com> wrote in
<news:acc184f6-20cf-4ecf...@15g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>
in
sci.math,sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english:
[...]
> And the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that
> is an incontrovertible fact.
Don't be ridiculous: it's merely a convention. For many of
us Monday is unquestionably the first day of the week.
[...]
Brian
Peter T. Daniels
> Peter T. Daniels filted:
>
>
>
> >On Feb 19, 1:02=A0pm, Cheryl <cperk...@mun.ca> wrote:
>
> >> I want an official long holiday weekend in every single month, no
> >> exceptions.
>
> >I thought they should have used MLK Day to commemorate the March on
> >Washington, rather than his birthday, since there are no holidays in
> >August.
>
> I always thought it should be observed on the anniversary of his assassination,
> so I could get my birthday off every year....
>
> I also plumped for rolling back "Presidents' Day" to the original "Washington's
> Birthday" and "Lincoln's Birthday", further suggesting that *every* president's
> birthday should be a holiday...(Polk and Harding screwed things up by having
> their birthdays on the same day of the year)...as luck would have it, at the
Statistically, in a group of 30 random people, you should expect at
least one pair to share a birthday. With a pool of 44, oughtn't there
to be two shared birthdays, on average?
Peter T. Daniels
> Robert Bannister filted:
>
>
>
> >Androcles wrote:
>
> >> The USA doesn't have a football schedule. The rest of the world plays
> >> football, the USA calls that soccer and then plays it's own version of
> >> parochial handball.
>
> One expects such a reaction from someone who inserts an apostrophe into
> possessive "its"....
One doesn't, really; the greengroce'rs apostrophe is more a feature of
Britland than USland.
Mike Dworetsky
> On Feb 19, 4:34 am, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>> John Atkinson wrote:
>>> Halmyre wrote:
>>>> On 19 Feb, 04:58, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> "Andrew Usher" <k_over_hb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>>> news:65e2a2e7-1aef-4872...@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>>>> calendar, and attempting in passing to create a more perfect
>>>>>> Church calendar, I say the following: 1. That Christmas day
>>>>>> should be fixed to a Sunday, and this should be the Sunday
>>>>>> between Dec. 21 and 27, and that in all civilised countries the
>>>>>> Monday should be considered a holiday, or the Saturday if not
>>>>>> normally. 2. That similarly Easter day should be fixed to the
>>>>>> Sunday which is 15 weeks following Christmas. 3. That the leap
>>>>>> year rule be changed to have a leap year occur every fourth
>>>>>> save that it be delayed when the leap year would start on a
>>>>>> Thursday, and that this gives 7 leap years in every 29, which
>>>>>> is near enough. 4. That the perpetual calendar can be made, by
>>>>>> Sunday after the Assumption, and if this is the first possible
>>>>>> calendar day, it is called week 1, and otherwise week 2, and
>>>>>> every year runs through week 53. And this calendar ensures that
>>>>>> everything can be fixed to a day of a certain week, in
>>>>>> particular the American Thanksgiving must be made 31 days
>>>>>> arrangement that can be made, without disturbing the cycle of
>>>>>> weeks or that of calendar days inherited from the Romans.
>>>>> The calendar has several sources, not just the Rome and the onewe
>>>>> habe in fine as it is
>>>> I just wish they'd settle on a date for Easter and be done with it.
>>
>>> But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! You might
>>> as well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you suggesting that
>>> we only take holidays at Easter every four years or so, when your
>>> phase?
>>
>> My Book of Common Prayer makes things easy by pointing out that "the
>> moon referred to in the definition of Easter Day is not the actual
>> moon of the heavens, but the Calendar Moon, or Moon of the Lunar
>> Cycle, which is counted as full on its fourteenth day, reckoned from
>> the day of the Calendar New Moon inclusive." Also, in a Bissextile
>> Year "the number of Sundays after Epiphany will be the same, as if
>> Easter Day had fallen one day later than it really does."
>
> the Orthodox (Eastern) churches have a slightly different system.
> dunno exactly what it is.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter
>
> Easter
Orthodox Easter and other events are based on the Julian Calendar (one year
= 365.25 days), while Catholic and Protestant practice follows the Gregorian
calendar (one year = 365.2425 days plus the 1582 dropping of 10 days). Over
several centuries, the date of the spring equinox has drifted away from
March 21 in the Orthodox calendar.
The two religious systems have different methods for calculating Easter
within their own calendars.
Do a Google search for "calendar FAQ".
>
> Easter is a moveable feast, meaning it is not fixed in relation to the
> civil calendar. The First Council of Nicaea (325) established the date
> of Easter as the first Sunday after the full moon (the Paschal Full
> Moon) following the vernal equinox.[3] Ecclesiastically, the equinox
> is reckoned to be on March 21 (regardless of the astronomically
> correct date), and the "Full Moon" is not necessarily the
> astronomically correct date. The date of Easter therefore varies
> between March 22 and April 25. Eastern Christianity bases its
> calculations on the Julian Calendar whose March 21 corresponds, during
> the twenty-first century, to April 3 in the Gregorian Calendar, in
> which calendar their celebration of Easter therefore varies between
> April 4 and May 8.
>
>
>
>>
>> What could be simpler?
>>
>> --
>> James
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
R H Draney
>
>
>"R H Draney" <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>news:hlni3...@drn.newsguy.com...
>> Robert Bannister filted:
>>>
>>>Androcles wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The USA doesn't have a football schedule. The rest of the world plays
>>>> football, the USA calls that soccer and then plays it's own version of
>>>> parochial handball.
>>
>> One expects such a reaction from someone who inserts an apostrophe into
>> possessive "its"....
>
>Oops... I forgot that is one possessive word that doesn't have an apostophe.
>My's mistake.
>What is "....", four thirds of an ellipsis ?
An ellipsis and a full stop....
>>>'Scuse me, what's rubbish about the rest of world playing that scoreless
>>>drama with a round ball? Footballs may be different sizes and weights
>>>and even the shape varies a bit, but they are basically ovoid. The other
>>>game is for kids in the street.
>>
>> *Poor* kids...with foreign accents...and brown skin....r
>>
>>
>I don't know that word, what does "....r" mean?
An ellipsis and a full stop and the world's shortest meaningful .sig....r
Androcles
"Mike Dworetsky" <plati...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:jc6dnUEvCLDSC-LW...@bt.com...
Over two millennia, the date of the spring equinox has drifted by a month.
Androcles
"Brian M. Scott" <b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote in message
news:1s2uq5glt3lgu$.1m746rj1287gz$.dlg@40tude.net...
Which day is Mittwoch and which god is it holy to?
http://www.woxikon.com/wort/mittwoch.php
Mike Barnes
>And the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that is an
>incontrovertible fact.
Crap.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Androcles
> Androcles filted:
>>
>>
>>"R H Draney" <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>>news:hlni3...@drn.newsguy.com...
>>> Robert Bannister filted:
>>>>
>>>>Androcles wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The USA doesn't have a football schedule. The rest of the world plays
>>>>> football, the USA calls that soccer and then plays it's own version of
>>>>> parochial handball.
>>>
>>> One expects such a reaction from someone who inserts an apostrophe into
>>> possessive "its"....
>>
>>Oops... I forgot that is one possessive word that doesn't have an
>>apostophe.
>>My's mistake.
>>What is "....", four thirds of an ellipsis ?
>
> An ellipsis and a full stop....
One expects such a reaction from one who concatenates a period with an
ellipsis.
I thought it might have been four quarter stops resulting from brake failure
or break failure.
>
>>>>'Scuse me, what's rubbish about the rest of world playing that scoreless
>>>>drama with a round ball? Footballs may be different sizes and weights
>>>>and even the shape varies a bit, but they are basically ovoid. The other
>>>>game is for kids in the street.
>>>
>>> *Poor* kids...with foreign accents...and brown skin....r
>>>
>>>
>>I don't know that word, what does "....r" mean?
>
> An ellipsis and a full stop and the world's shortest meaningful .sig....r
>
I don't know that word, what does ".sig." mean, Mr. ...r?
Prai Jei
continuum:
> 3. That the leap year rule be changed to have a leap year occur every
> fourth save that it be delayed when the leap year would start on a
> Thursday, and that this gives 7 leap years in every 29, which is near
> enough.
7/29 amounts to 0.2413 of an extra day on average. We're looking for 0.2422.
The Gregorian calendar says 97/400 (0.2425) which is more accurate, the
Revised Julian Calendar says 218/900 (0.24222 recurring) [1] which is more
accurate again.
[1] The RJC says that century years are not leap years unless they leave a
remainder of 2 or 6 when divided by 9. Thus in a 4*225 = 900-year cycle
seven leap-years are omitted. The RJC is currently in sync with the
Gregorian, and will not diverge therefrom until 2800.
--
ξ:) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
Cheryl
> Andrew Usher <k_over...@yahoo.com>:
>> And the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that is an
>> incontrovertible fact.
>
> Crap.
>
Perhaps we could just point everyone to the last thread discussing which
is the first day of the week.
--
Cheryl (votes for Sunday)
jmfbahciv
> On Feb 19, 6:07 pm, Robert Bannister <robb...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>> 6. This is surely the best possible arrangement that can be made,
>>> without disturbing the cycle of weeks or that of calendar days
>>> inherited from the Romans.
>> four-week months with one or two specially named days at the end of the
>> year to even it out. The first day of each month should be a Monday.
>
> the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that is an
> incontrovertible fact.
>
> particular, 13 can't be divided.
>
/BAH
CDB
> Androcles filted:
>
[socking the ball: a round]
>
>>> *Poor* kids...with foreign accents...and brown skin....r
>>>
>> I don't know that word, what does "....r" mean?
>
> An ellipsis and a full stop and the world's shortest meaningful
> .sig....r
>
Mike Barnes
>Mike Barnes wrote:
>> Andrew Usher <k_over...@yahoo.com>:
>>> And the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that is an
>>> incontrovertible fact.
>> Crap.
>
>Perhaps we could just point everyone to the last thread discussing
>which is the first day of the week.
I don't think you've characterised that thread quite right. People
discussed which day of the week was most convenient for them. IIRC no-
one was insisting that one day was *the* first day of the week.
But if anyone subscribes to the view that there is a "the" first day of
the week, they should take a look at the International Standard ISO
8601, in which weeks are defined as beginning on Monday.
>--
>Cheryl (votes for Sunday)
--
Mike Barnes (doesn't think it's a voting matter)
Cheshire, England
Yusuf B Gursey
> >>> phase?
>
> >> My Book of Common Prayer makes things easy by pointing out that "the
> >> moon referred to in the definition of Easter Day is not the actual
> >> moon of the heavens, but the Calendar Moon, or Moon of the Lunar
> >> Cycle, which is counted as full on its fourteenth day, reckoned from
> >> the day of the Calendar New Moon inclusive." Also, in a Bissextile
> >> Year "the number of Sundays after Epiphany will be the same, as if
> >> Easter Day had fallen one day later than it really does."
>
> > the Orthodox (Eastern) churches have a slightly different system.
> > dunno exactly what it is.
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter
>
> > Easter
>
> Orthodox Easter and other events are based on the Julian Calendar (one year
> = 365.25 days), while Catholic and Protestant practice follows the Gregorian
> calendar (one year = 365.2425 days plus the 1582 dropping of 10 days). Over
> several centuries, the date of the spring equinox has drifted away from
> March 21 in the Orthodox calendar.
>
> The two religious systems have different methods for calculating Easter
> within their own calendars.
>
> Do a Google search for "calendar FAQ".
>
>
>
yes, thank you IIRC somebody else pointed that out.
Androcles
"Mike Barnes" <mikeb...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:W1kjfgYNc$fLF...@34klh41lk4h1lk34h3lk4h1k4.invalid...
> Cheryl <cper...@mun.ca>:
>>Mike Barnes wrote:
>>> Andrew Usher <k_over...@yahoo.com>:
>>>> And the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that is an
>>>> incontrovertible fact.
>>> Crap.
>>
>>Perhaps we could just point everyone to the last thread discussing
>>which is the first day of the week.
>
> I don't think you've characterised that thread quite right. People
> discussed which day of the week was most convenient for them. IIRC no-
> one was insisting that one day was *the* first day of the week.
>
> But if anyone subscribes to the view that there is a "the" first day of
> the week, they should take a look at the International Standard ISO
> 8601, in which weeks are defined as beginning on Monday.
Perhaps you should look at this:
http://tinyurl.com/ybvrll5
The rest of the world seems to have told International Standard ISO 8601
to get stuffed, along with the International Standard Language Esperanto.
Mike Dworetsky
Over 2000 years, the calendrical difference of 0.0075 d/yr adds up to 15
days. In 1582, a correction of 10 days was done because the original
agreement for the date of Easter was made not on AD1 but in AD325 at the
Council of Nicea, so the accumulation over 1257 years was 9.4 days. I'm not
certain why they dropped 10 days instead of 9; possibly because 1600 would
not be a Gregorian leap year? Or possibly because the most prevalent date
was already pretty much set by around AD200?
R H Draney
>> Androcles filted:
>>>
>>>I don't know that word, what does "....r" mean?
>>
>> An ellipsis and a full stop and the world's shortest meaningful .sig....r
>>
>I don't know that word, what does ".sig." mean, Mr. ...r?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.sig
Brian M. Scott
<Headm...@Hogwarts.physics_u> wrote in
<news:lQTfn.100919$zD4.1...@newsfe19.ams2> in
sci.physics,sci.astro,sci.lang,alt.usage.english:
> "Mike Barnes" <mikeb...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
> news:W1kjfgYNc$fLF...@34klh41lk4h1lk34h3lk4h1k4.invalid...
>> Cheryl <cper...@mun.ca>:
>>>Mike Barnes wrote:
>>>> Andrew Usher <k_over...@yahoo.com>:
>>>>> And the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that is an
>>>>> incontrovertible fact.
>>>> Crap.
>>>Perhaps we could just point everyone to the last thread discussing
>>>which is the first day of the week.
>> I don't think you've characterised that thread quite right. People
>> discussed which day of the week was most convenient for them. IIRC no-
>> one was insisting that one day was *the* first day of the week.
>> But if anyone subscribes to the view that there is a "the" first day of
>> the week, they should take a look at the International Standard ISO
>> 8601, in which weeks are defined as beginning on Monday.
> Perhaps you should look at this:
> http://tinyurl.com/ybvrll5
So what? It seems likely that calendar layout is to a large
extent a matter of tradition.
[...]
Brian