Need help with Dirac
Andreas Moser
I got stuck in Dirac's "Principles of QM" again... 4th ed. Page 290
(§77) I can't see how equ. (59) follows from the previous one, i.e.
How does
nabla^2 (A0 + U) ~ 0
lead to
A0 + U ~ 0 ?
I think the subject is now generally taught differently, but I would
still like to follow Dirac's argument in that chapter anyway. Can anyone
help?
Thanks,
Andreas
William K Glunt
: Given a function f such that f is regular and nabla^2 f = 0
: everywhere, then f is a constant.
: Which is just another form for the statement (from complex function
: theory) that "any function which is analytical everywhere is a
: constant".
Polynomials?
Don't you need boundedness or some other nice property?
: Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
: me...@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
Bud G.
--
Dr. William K Glunt | Are you ABNORMAL?
APSU Dept of Math and CS| Then you are probably better than most people!
Clarksville TN | Are alien space monsters bringing a STARTLING NEW
home phone 931 645 8938 | WORLD? from _The book of the SubGenius_
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>
>: Given a function f such that f is regular and nabla^2 f = 0
>: everywhere, then f is a constant.
>
>: Which is just another form for the statement (from complex function
>: theory) that "any function which is analytical everywhere is a
>: constant".
>
>Polynomials?
>
infinity. So, yes, it implies:
> Don't you need boundedness or some other nice property?
^^^^^^^^^^^
yes, that's part of the package.
Keith Ramsay
b...@t3.ms.uky.edu (William K Glunt) writes:
|: Which is just another form for the statement (from complex function
|: theory) that "any function which is analytical everywhere is a
|: constant".
|
|Polynomials?
|
I think he means analytic on all of the Riemann sphere. Nonconstant
polynomials on the complex plane have a pole at infinity when they are
extended to the Riemann sphere. (A pole of order equal to the degree
of the polynomial.)
Probably in the original problem, f is known to be square integrable
or something, but I don't have a copy of Dirac handy either.
Keith Ramsay
Pertti Lounesto
>I got stuck in Dirac's "Principles of QM" again... 4th ed. Page 290
>(§77) I can't see how equ. (59) follows from the previous one, i.e.
>
>How does
>
> nabla^2 (A0 + U) ~ 0
>
>lead to
>
> A0 + U ~ 0 ?
Keith Ramsay wrote:
I do not have Dirac's book handy, because my former
physics teacher, Pekka Tarjanne, presently Secretary-
General of the International Telecommunication Union,
http://www.itu.int/orgchart/bios/tarjanne.htm, said one
should not study the book. But, the Minkowski space-
time does not have a one-point compactification to S^4
with respect to any set of interesting functions. Its
conformal compactification is (S^3 x S^1)/Z_2 = U(2).
Can the claim hold for (S^3 x S^1)/Z_2 ?
Bruce Scott TOK
Andreas Moser <see@http://www.ztop.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I got stuck in Dirac's "Principles of QM" again... 4th ed. Page 290
>(§77) I can't see how equ. (59) follows from the previous one, i.e.
>
>How does
>
> nabla^2 (A0 + U) ~ 0
>
>lead to
>
> A0 + U ~ 0 ?
If a function is localised -- nonzero only within a simply connected
region of space -- then you can prove using Fourier transforms that
nabla^2 f = 0 implies f = 0. This localisation is very often an
implicit assumption even if (especially in older texts) it is unstated.
All that topology you see in some of the other replies is what you do to
address this on more formal grounds.
--
cu,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
Andreas Moser
> >How does
> >
> > nabla^2 (A0 + U) ~ 0
> >
> >lead to
> >
> > A0 + U ~ 0 ?
>
> If a function is localised -- nonzero only within a simply connected
> region of space -- then you can prove using Fourier transforms that
> nabla^2 f = 0 implies f = 0. This localisation is very often an
> implicit assumption even if (especially in older texts) it is unstated.
> All that topology you see in some of the other replies is what you do to
> address this on more formal grounds.
Thanks for the replies... I think I can understand that now - even on a less
sophisticated level. If a function is zero at infinity and its second
derivative is zero everywhere, it can't get out of being zero can it?
I suppose that would explains things, and I think Dirac said elsewhere that
the fields were supposed to vanish at infinity (isn't that necessary for the
Fourier transforms to exist anyway...)
Andreas
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>Bruce Scott TOK wrote:
>
>> >How does
>> >
>> > nabla^2 (A0 + U) ~ 0
>> >
>> >lead to
>> >
>> > A0 + U ~ 0 ?
>>
>> If a function is localised -- nonzero only within a simply connected
>> region of space -- then you can prove using Fourier transforms that
>> nabla^2 f = 0 implies f = 0. This localisation is very often an
>> implicit assumption even if (especially in older texts) it is unstated.
>> All that topology you see in some of the other replies is what you do to
>> address this on more formal grounds.
>
>Thanks for the replies... I think I can understand that now - even on a less
>sophisticated level. If a function is zero at infinity and its second
>derivative is zero everywhere, it can't get out of being zero can it?
>
>I suppose that would explains things, and I think Dirac said elsewhere that
>the fields were supposed to vanish at infinity (isn't that necessary for the
>Fourier transforms to exist anyway...)
Yep.
Bruce Scott TOK
Andreas Moser <A...@ztop.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Thanks for the replies... I think I can understand that now - even on a less
>sophisticated level. If a function is zero at infinity and its second
>derivative is zero everywhere, it can't get out of being zero can it?
Exactly.
>I suppose that would explains things, and I think Dirac said elsewhere that
>the fields were supposed to vanish at infinity (isn't that necessary for the
>Fourier transforms to exist anyway...)
More or less... you can have infinite periodicity but then you need a
finite periodicity length and you also have to filter out the
zero-zero-zero mode, which is that constant.
Localisation is clearer if you look at elliptical problems with
Dirichlet boundaries (set the function to a constant everywhere on the
boundary, or for the simplest case, to zero). Outside of the given
domain, the function is zero. So you can enclose that domain in a
finite sized box, and then do your proof with finite Fourier transforms
(the cosine and sine versions, which meet the boundary conditions).
Jackson (Classical Electrodynamics) is a good place to study this stuff.
You learn all about the most important special functions (eg, Bessel)
along the way.
jmfb...@aol.com
>>Bruce Scott TOK wrote:
<snip conversation that used the word nabla^2>
While looking up this word in my dictionary, I followed my
usual procedure and got side-tracked reading said dictionary.
On the opposite page was the word nail with pictures of
different nails and their names. I got just a tad interested
because I'm about to play with blue board for the first time
in my life.
Now, all of these nails look different and, I suspect, that
they're different because of their use. What I've never
thought about is what are all those differences supposed
to do?
For instance, there's a nail called 'common grooved' that
appears to have two different striations. Does that imply
that there are two layers of different construction materials?
And then there's that really weird looking nail called
'masonry fluted'. What are all those different surfaces
supposed to do? And, it also appears that the groove
separations are important. Why?
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <FHtt6...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>In article <37D84BBE...@ztop.freeserve.co.uk>, Andreas Moser
><A...@ztop.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>>>Bruce Scott TOK wrote:
>
><snip conversation that used the word nabla^2>
>
>While looking up this word in my dictionary, I followed my
>usual procedure and got side-tracked reading said dictionary.
>On the opposite page was the word nail with pictures of
>different nails and their names. I got just a tad interested
>because I'm about to play with blue board for the first time
>in my life.
>
>Now, all of these nails look different and, I suspect, that
>they're different because of their use.
Yes, yes.
>What I've never thought about is what are all those differences supposed
>to do?
Show's that you aren't much of a "do_it_yourselfer":-)
>
>For instance, there's a nail called 'common grooved' that
>appears to have two different striations. Does that imply
>that there are two layers of different construction materials?
Can't say by name, would've to see it. It may be the kind of nail you
use to hang sheetrock to 2X4s, so yes, two different materials.
>
>And then there's that really weird looking nail called
>'masonry fluted'. What are all those different surfaces
>supposed to do? And, it also appears that the groove
>separations are important. Why?
You just found that a nail is a more sophisticated device than it
appears. It has to go in easily but then it has to remain stuck, not
coming out easily. How this is achieved, depends on the material you
hammer the nails into. Different demands for timber, sheetrock,
concrete. Go to a good hardware store and look in the nail section,
you'll find literally dozens of kinds.
Ken Muldrew
>While looking up this word in my dictionary, I followed my
>usual procedure and got side-tracked reading said dictionary.
>On the opposite page was the word nail with pictures of
>different nails and their names. I got just a tad interested
>because I'm about to play with blue board for the first time
>in my life.
What is blue board? If you're going to make furniture, I'd suggest
learning to make it without nails first and then return to the nail
section of your hardware store after you have a good understanding of
joinery. For rough carpentry, of course, nails are fine.
Ken Muldrew
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca
Harry H Conover
: jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
:
: >While looking up this word in my dictionary, I followed my
: >usual procedure and got side-tracked reading said dictionary.
: >On the opposite page was the word nail with pictures of
: >different nails and their names. I got just a tad interested
: >because I'm about to play with blue board for the first time
: >in my life.
:
: What is blue board?
Roughly speaking, it's water resistant drywall material. It's commonly
used as a wallboard material in showers and bathrooms, usually with
tile applied to it as the outer surface. (Ordinary drywall 'sheetrock'
doesn't hold up well in damp and wet locations.)
'Wonderboard' is the next step up from 'blue board', with a look and
feel nearly like a concrete.
The more water resistant the product is, the higher the price.
Harry C.
Steven B. Harris
>You just found that a nail is a more sophisticated device than it
>appears. It has to go in easily but then it has to remain stuck, not
>coming out easily. How this is achieved, depends on the material you
>hammer the nails into. Different demands for timber, sheetrock,
>concrete. Go to a good hardware store and look in the nail section,
>you'll find literally dozens of kinds.
If you will forgive me, this thought above can be generalized. And
it's damned important. Go to any specialized store, from REI to an
arts and crafts store to a welding shop to a Home Depot to a good
electronics part store (I don't mean Radio Shack), to a marine supply
shop, and you will find that there are vast areas where many people
have spent a lifetime trying to improve something didn't even know
existed. And it's the same for hospitals and radiator repair shops and
small airports. I've long thought that the big problem with education
is that we no longer can figure out a way to get kids out of the damned
schools and out to the business offices and police departments and
factories and light industrial areas and plants and shops and backs of
parts stores, and so forth, where the work of the world actually takes
place. And where education (by any definition) happens at least as
fast as in the classroom lecture. This is the world, after all, where
they will be spending the rest of their lives (though each in some tiny
cubbyhole, trying very hard not to go anywhere else, since this results
in feelings of confusion, inadequacy, and being lost. I.e., the normal
human condition if you are rational).
I love the new computer replacement for the card files in libraries.
But there is no substitute for just wandering along the stacks, pulling
out and looking at books at random. The kind of thing you cannot do at
the Library of Congress or the National Library of Medicine, but still
can at many universities and public libraries. Any time you're feeling
full of yourself, I recommend such a wander, for the same reason I
recommend a visit to one of those stores or shops in your city's
industrial area, on the wrong side of the tracks. If such a jaunt
doesn't restore your humility, you're a hopeless case.
SBH
Gregory L. Hansen
Steven B. Harris <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>In <FHur...@midway.uchicago.edu> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>>You just found that a nail is a more sophisticated device than it
>>appears. It has to go in easily but then it has to remain stuck, not
>>coming out easily. How this is achieved, depends on the material you
>>hammer the nails into. Different demands for timber, sheetrock,
>>concrete. Go to a good hardware store and look in the nail section,
>>you'll find literally dozens of kinds.
>
>
> If you will forgive me, this thought above can be generalized. And
>it's damned important. Go to any specialized store, from REI to an
>arts and crafts store to a welding shop to a Home Depot to a good
>electronics part store (I don't mean Radio Shack), to a marine supply
>shop, and you will find that there are vast areas where many people
>have spent a lifetime trying to improve something didn't even know
>existed. And it's the same for hospitals and radiator repair shops and
This is why I love doing science in a technologically advanced, capitalist
country. Because there are so many people out there working hard to make
my job easier! Superfluid helium-tight valves, ion pumps, specialty
alloys, magnetic shielding in the form of amorphous metal ribbon... It's
amazing what they come up with before I know I need it. They make my job
easier, I give them someone else's money, and we're both happy!
The scientific and industrial infrastructure and support in the United
States is just awe-inspiring. I'm sure it is in other countries, too, but
I haven't done much business with other countries.
>small airports. I've long thought that the big problem with education
>is that we no longer can figure out a way to get kids out of the damned
>schools and out to the business offices and police departments and
>factories and light industrial areas and plants and shops and backs of
>parts stores, and so forth, where the work of the world actually takes
>place. And where education (by any definition) happens at least as
>fast as in the classroom lecture. This is the world, after all, where
>they will be spending the rest of their lives (though each in some tiny
>cubbyhole, trying very hard not to go anywhere else, since this results
>in feelings of confusion, inadequacy, and being lost. I.e., the normal
>human condition if you are rational).
I've found that people are happy to talk about their work if you ask them,
and they'll show you around. I've been able to just walk into operations
like a brick factory, cement factory, and limestone cutter, and been shown
around and had all my questions answered. I enjoy "pumping the vendor"
over the phone and learning about fiberglass, depleted uranium, or
whatever their business is. It's fun!
--
"Honey, would you mind opening the window? The police have Daddy's
fingerprints on file." - Homer
Ken Muldrew
>Ken Muldrew (kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca) wrote:
>: jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>:
>: >While looking up this word in my dictionary, I followed my
>: >usual procedure and got side-tracked reading said dictionary.
>: >On the opposite page was the word nail with pictures of
>: >different nails and their names. I got just a tad interested
>: >because I'm about to play with blue board for the first time
>: >in my life.
>:
>: What is blue board?
>Roughly speaking, it's water resistant drywall material. It's commonly
>used as a wallboard material in showers and bathrooms, usually with
>tile applied to it as the outer surface. (Ordinary drywall 'sheetrock'
>doesn't hold up well in damp and wet locations.)
Ah, that stuff is green in Canada and is called aquaboard. In that
case BAH won't need to learn any joinery but she will have to make a
choice between nails and screws.
Ken Muldrew
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca
Steven B. Harris
glha...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory L. Hansen) writes:
>The scientific and industrial infrastructure and support in the United
>States is just awe-inspiring. I'm sure it is in other countries, too,
>but I haven't done much business with other countries.
From all I've been told, it's better in the US than anyplace on
Earth. If your Russian car breaks down in Moscow, Idaho, you've got a
better chance of finding a mechanic who can fix it, or order the right
part to fix it, by the next day, than if you were in Moscow, Russia.
That said, all of this is under constant government attack. There
is nothing like regulatory burden to make small businesses go under,
and large ones (which can devote a smaller fraction of resources to
compliance) able to eat smaller ones. So (for example) it's
Sigma-Aldrich-Fluka-Supelco-Riedel-de-Hae:en now (with RBI being the
latest company to be absorbed and dismembered), but smaller companies
are being eaten by the black hole all the time and it won't be long
before there's just ONE major US chemical company. Ordinarily
capitalism would stop this, but we don't have pure capitalism in the
US. Smegma-Aldrich long ago rolled over for the Feds, and cut a deal
where they voluntarily report all, about any orders what that may be
even slightly likely to be related to illicit drug manufacture. Just
as they rat to your local fire departement about what they send you.
And in return, they don't get treated like Microsoft or Standard Oil.
Instead, they get to be the official government narc chemico-conglom.
And it's rather that way also with a lot of businesses. Those that
help the Feds or the local cops find they don't have quite the
regulatory burdon. Those that don't, soon find the cost of doing
business is oddly enough, too high. All countries decay to fascism
eventually. I'm only surprised it's taken this one this long.
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In <FHur...@midway.uchicago.edu> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>>You just found that a nail is a more sophisticated device than it
>>appears. It has to go in easily but then it has to remain stuck, not
>>coming out easily. How this is achieved, depends on the material you
>>hammer the nails into. Different demands for timber, sheetrock,
>>concrete. Go to a good hardware store and look in the nail section,
>>you'll find literally dozens of kinds.
>
>
> If you will forgive me, this thought above can be generalized. And
>it's damned important. Go to any specialized store, from REI to an
>arts and crafts store to a welding shop to a Home Depot to a good
>electronics part store (I don't mean Radio Shack), to a marine supply
>shop, and you will find that there are vast areas where many people
>have spent a lifetime trying to improve something didn't even know
>existed.
Yes, yes. And that's the stuff that keeps our civilization
functioning.
>I've long thought that the big problem with education
>is that we no longer can figure out a way to get kids out of the damned
>schools and out to the business offices and police departments and
>factories and light industrial areas and plants and shops and backs of
>parts stores, and so forth, where the work of the world actually takes
>place.
I suspect that education, by and large, is still infected with the old
Greek attitude where anything practical is considered dirty, of
interest only to the lower classes.
...
>
> I love the new computer replacement for the card files in libraries.
>But there is no substitute for just wandering along the stacks, pulling
>out and looking at books at random.
Absolutely. The best way to find all you didn't know existed.
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>I've found that people are happy to talk about their work if you ask them,
>and they'll show you around.
Happy? More than happy, extatic. People who actually make something
happen take great pride in what they're doing.
I've been able to just walk into operations
>like a brick factory, cement factory, and limestone cutter, and been shown
>around and had all my questions answered.
Of course. And be sure that you made their day.
jmfb...@aol.com
con...@tiac.net (Harry H Conover) wrote:
>Ken Muldrew (kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca) wrote:
>: jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>:
>: >While looking up this word in my dictionary, I followed my
>: >usual procedure and got side-tracked reading said dictionary.
>: >On the opposite page was the word nail with pictures of
>: >different nails and their names. I got just a tad interested
>: >because I'm about to play with blue board for the first time
>: >in my life.
>:
>: What is blue board?
>
>Roughly speaking, it's water resistant drywall material. It's commonly
>used as a wallboard material in showers and bathrooms, usually with
>tile applied to it as the outer surface. (Ordinary drywall 'sheetrock'
>doesn't hold up well in damp and wet locations.)
>
>feel nearly like a concrete.
Oh, pooh! Nobody said anything about wonder board. grumble,...mumble...
harumph.
>
>The more water resistant the product is, the higher the price.
What's the wonder board made out of? And what kinds of nails
would I match to that material?
jmfb...@aol.com
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) wrote:
>con...@tiac.net (Harry H Conover) wrote:
>
>>Ken Muldrew (kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca) wrote:
>>: jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>>:
>>: >While looking up this word in my dictionary, I followed my
>>: >usual procedure and got side-tracked reading said dictionary.
>>: >On the opposite page was the word nail with pictures of
>>: >different nails and their names. I got just a tad interested
>>: >because I'm about to play with blue board for the first time
>>: >in my life.
>>:
>>: What is blue board?
>
>>Roughly speaking, it's water resistant drywall material. It's commonly
>>used as a wallboard material in showers and bathrooms, usually with
>>tile applied to it as the outer surface. (Ordinary drywall 'sheetrock'
>>doesn't hold up well in damp and wet locations.)
>
>case BAH won't need to learn any joinery but she will have to make a
>choice between nails and screws.
Good grief! Are you telling me that the lingo I learn down
here won't work up there???!!!! :-) How does that happen
when the boundary between us is imaginary?
jmfb...@aol.com
>In article <7rb0u5$et3$2...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>In article <FHtt6...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>In article <37D84BBE...@ztop.freeserve.co.uk>, Andreas Moser
>><A...@ztop.freeserve.co.uk> writes:
>>>>Bruce Scott TOK wrote:
>>
>><snip conversation that used the word nabla^2>
>>
>>usual procedure and got side-tracked reading said dictionary.
>>On the opposite page was the word nail with pictures of
>>different nails and their names. I got just a tad interested
>>because I'm about to play with blue board for the first time
>>in my life.
>>
>>they're different because of their use.
>
>Yes, yes.
Well, that was an easy extrapolation.
>
>>What I've never thought about is what are all those differences supposed
>>to do?
>
>Show's that you aren't much of a "do_it_yourselfer":-)
Well, I've become desperate since men don't seem to want to
do the work. :-)
And it's not that so much as this newsgroup has infected me.
I never questioned stuff like this when I was kid (that
was my doityourselfer days), I just did what Dad did.
>>
>>For instance, there's a nail called 'common grooved' that
>>appears to have two different striations. Does that imply
>>that there are two layers of different construction materials?
>
>Can't say by name, would've to see it. It may be the kind of nail you
>use to hang sheetrock to 2X4s, so yes, two different materials.
OK, that's a start down the path of this thread. Why
would striations that are closer together work in wood and
further apart striations work in sheetrock? (I'm assuming
that's what the nail is used for.)
>>
>>And then there's that really weird looking nail called
>>'masonry fluted'. What are all those different surfaces
>>supposed to do? And, it also appears that the groove
>>separations are important. Why?
>
>You just found that a nail is a more sophisticated device than it
>appears. It has to go in easily but then it has to remain stuck, not
>coming out easily. How this is achieved, depends on the material you
>hammer the nails into. Different demands for timber, sheetrock,
>concrete. Go to a good hardware store and look in the nail section,
>you'll find literally dozens of kinds.
Well, the heat of hammering a nail into the material is a part
of the physics, isn't it? Then, when the material around the
nail cools, it sorta settles into the grooves. I have no idea
how this stuff works. That last one is just something that
came out of my primitive brain :-)).
jmfb...@aol.com
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>In article <7rbqar$va5$1...@jetsam.uits.indiana.edu>,
glha...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory L. Hansen) writes:
>
>>I've found that people are happy to talk about their
>>work if you ask them, and they'll show you around.
>
>Happy? More than happy, extatic. People who actually make something
>happen take great pride in what they're doing.
>
>>I've been able to just walk into operations
>>like a brick factory, cement factory, and limestone
>>cutter, and been shown around and had all my questions
>>answered.
>
>Of course. And be sure that you made their day.
My style tends to not ask questions (I don't think that
fast on my feet.) I just look interested and keep quiet
(with an occasional question to prompt further talk).
Most of the time, any questions (that I would have had) get
answered including the ones I would have never thought to
ask. People who are experts also know the tricks of trade
that aren't obvious to newbies.
That's not a technique that works in a newsgroup, though
[wry emoticon here]...hmmm...is there an emoticon that
indicated interest?
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <FHur...@midway.uchicago.edu>, me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>In article <7rb0u5$et3$2...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>
>>>Now, all of these nails look different and, I suspect, that
>>>they're different because of their use.
>>
>>Yes, yes.
>
>Well, that was an easy extrapolation.
>
>>
>>>What I've never thought about is what are all those differences supposed
>>>to do?
>>
>>Show's that you aren't much of a "do_it_yourselfer":-)
>
>Well, I've become desperate since men don't seem to want to
>do the work. :-)
>
...
>>
>>Can't say by name, would've to see it. It may be the kind of nail you
>>use to hang sheetrock to 2X4s, so yes, two different materials.
>
>OK, that's a start down the path of this thread. Why
>would striations that are closer together work in wood and
>further apart striations work in sheetrock? (I'm assuming
>that's what the nail is used for.)
Has to do with the internal consistency of the material. If it is, in
effect, a compacted powder, then if the gaps arent big enough you'll
just turn it into uncompacted powder. Doesn't hold very well.
...
>
>Well, the heat of hammering a nail into the material is a part
>of the physics, isn't it? Then, when the material around the
>nail cools, it sorta settles into the grooves.
If at this stage the material is pulverized, it doesn't matter where
it settles anymore. It holds nothing.
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <FHvrA...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>In article <7rbqar$va5$1...@jetsam.uits.indiana.edu>,
>glha...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory L. Hansen) writes:
>>
>>>I've found that people are happy to talk about their
>>>work if you ask them, and they'll show you around.
>>
>>Happy? More than happy, extatic. People who actually make something
>>happen take great pride in what they're doing.
>>
>
>My style tends to not ask questions (I don't think that
>fast on my feet.) I just look interested and keep quiet
>(with an occasional question to prompt further talk).
Yep, that's a good approach. Especially since ...
>Most of the time, any questions (that I would have had) get
>answered including the ones I would have never thought to
>ask.
Right on. While, if you keep asking questions, the ones you wouldn't
think about won't get answered.
> People who are experts also know the tricks of trade
>that aren't obvious to newbies.
>
That's what makes them experts.
>That's not a technique that works in a newsgroup,
Because most of the people you encounter here are anything but
experts.
Steven B. Harris
>>
>>Ah, that stuff is green in Canada and is called aquaboard. In that
>>case BAH won't need to learn any joinery but she will have to make a
>>choice between nails and screws.
>
>Good grief! Are you telling me that the lingo I learn down
>here won't work up there???!!!! :-) How does that happen
>when the boundary between us is imaginary?
>
>/BAH
Try taking a peice of blueboard through US/Canadian customs with the
stated purpose of putting it up for somebody else on the other side of
the line, on contract, and you'll find out how imaginary that line is.
You'll shortly find your ass in a very real place where the knobs don't
work.
Emigration for purposes of work was once upon a time a way of
generating a good deal of efficiency, since when people go from here to
here, they take their knowledge with them, and often leave some of it
behind. Social benefit systems have put a big crimp in that, now, for
countries which adjoin, if the systems are disparate. As in US/Mexico,
and US/Canada. NAFTA wasn't built to balance books-- it was built to
protect jobs, which is to say, to make sure people who pay into common
social pot #1 are the same who draw from it. That all has very nasty
impact on the flow of information and technological infrastructure.
You're just seeing the tip of the iceberg of that inefficiency.
Steven B. Harris
Yeah, but we're interested!
The technique you describe above has been used by me all my life. I
have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, most people are willing to
tell you the most important general principles they'd learned in 30
years of being in a field, for free, if you're interested. (Except I
once had a laywer say: "Three rules about talking to police after
identifying yourself: 1: keep your mouth shut. 2: Keep your damn mouth
shut, 3: Keep you GOD damn mouth shut. That will be $50.") So there's
a lot of wealth out there for free, laying about like precious stones
on the ground.
If you use it, though, the value often doesn't get returned to the
original teacher. Which is really very unfair, in a way that has
bothered me for a long time. As we get to be more and more an
information based society, the problem is becoming more acute.
Part of this, of course, has to do with the fact that the brain is
very bad about keeping track of where knowledge comes from, and so when
things turn out to be valuable, you can't go back. I don't remember if
I told here the wonderful storey of my father's friend who prospected
for lead and tin and copper in Southern Utah, and assayed rocks in his
garage. After which they went back to the rock pile. After WWII he
baught a Geiger counter like everybody else, and tried it out first on
the rock pile. And found several very hot ones. But had no idea where
they'd come from. Knowledge is like that.
Steve
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In <FHwwz...@midway.uchicago.edu> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu writes:
>>
>>In article <7rdh9e$lo9$5...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com
>writes:
>>>
>>>fast on my feet.) I just look interested and keep quiet
>>>(with an occasional question to prompt further talk).
>>
>>Yep, that's a good approach. Especially since ...
>>
>>>Most of the time, any questions (that I would have had) get
>>>answered including the ones I would have never thought to
>>>ask.
>>
>>Right on. While, if you keep asking questions, the ones you wouldn't
>>think about won't get answered.
>>
>>> People who are experts also know the tricks of trade
>>>that aren't obvious to newbies.
>>>
>>That's what makes them experts.
>>
>>>That's not a technique that works in a newsgroup,
>>
>>Because most of the people you encounter here are anything but
>>experts.
>
> Yeah, but we're interested!
>
that is interested. I keep believing that there are way more of them,
among the lurkers, but this may be wishful thinking.
> The technique you describe above has been used by me all my life. I
>have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, most people are willing to
>tell you the most important general principles they'd learned in 30
>years of being in a field, for free, if you're interested. (Except I
>once had a laywer say: "Three rules about talking to police after
>identifying yourself: 1: keep your mouth shut. 2: Keep your damn mouth
>shut, 3: Keep you GOD damn mouth shut. That will be $50.")
Sounds like a good advice, to me.
>So there's a lot of wealth out there for free, laying about like
>precious stones on the ground.
Yes.
>
> If you use it, though, the value often doesn't get returned to the
>original teacher. Which is really very unfair, in a way that has
>bothered me for a long time. As we get to be more and more an
>information based society, the problem is becoming more acute.
>
Yes, that's true. And eventually it may put a damper on progress.
> Part of this, of course, has to do with the fact that the brain is
>very bad about keeping track of where knowledge comes from, and so when
>things turn out to be valuable, you can't go back. I don't remember if
>I told here the wonderful storey of my father's friend who prospected
>for lead and tin and copper in Southern Utah, and assayed rocks in his
>garage. After which they went back to the rock pile. After WWII he
>baught a Geiger counter like everybody else, and tried it out first on
>the rock pile. And found several very hot ones.
Probably happened to quite a few.
>But had no idea where they'd come from. Knowledge is like that.
Certainly. And, indeed, there are fairness issues involved. What can
be done about it, though ...
jmfb...@aol.com
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>In article <7rde6g$2c7$6...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>In article <FHur...@midway.uchicago.edu>, me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
wrote:
>>>In article <7rb0u5$et3$2...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>>
>>>>Now, all of these nails look different and, I suspect, that
>>>>they're different because of their use.
>>>
>>>Yes, yes.
>>
>>Well, that was an easy extrapolation.
>>
>>>
>>>>What I've never thought about is what are all those differences
supposed
>>>>to do?
>>>
>>>Show's that you aren't much of a "do_it_yourselfer":-)
>>
>>Well, I've become desperate since men don't seem to want to
>>do the work. :-)
>>
>Did you try paying them?:-)
Money, even a lot of it, is not a lure here. I've been
thinking of other lures just out of sheer desparation.
The only reason I'm painting the shit-eating brown white
is because I can't get an electrician to change a switch
that broke--a 10 minute job, including writing
out the bill. And, since I'm terribly afraid of electrical
stuff, I'm not even going to try to fix the switch until my
will is written. So, in order to see in the kitchen, I'm
painting stuff white.
>
> ...
>>>
>>>Can't say by name, would've to see it. It may be the kind of nail you
>>>use to hang sheetrock to 2X4s, so yes, two different materials.
>>
>>OK, that's a start down the path of this thread. Why
>>would striations that are closer together work in wood and
>>further apart striations work in sheetrock? (I'm assuming
>>that's what the nail is used for.)
>
>Has to do with the internal consistency of the material. If it is, in
>effect, a compacted powder, then if the gaps arent big enough you'll
>just turn it into uncompacted powder. Doesn't hold very well.
I don't understand. When the nail is driven in, the striations
make a bigger hole. Does the compacted powder then expand to
fill in the ruts of the nail?
And I just looked at the nails that the guy sold me. The
striations don't match any of the ones pictured in the dictionary.
So is there a rule of thumb so that I can identify the utlility
of any particular nail?
If I were a good little girl, I would do as my Mom would do
and clean the rust off these nails. I'm so glad I'm bad.
>
> ...
>>
>>Well, the heat of hammering a nail into the material is a part
>>of the physics, isn't it? Then, when the material around the
>>nail cools, it sorta settles into the grooves.
>
>If at this stage the material is pulverized, it doesn't matter where
>it settles anymore. It holds nothing.
Are you telling me that I have to nail the blue board slowly
for successful adhesion to the ceiling? All I'm trying to do
is cover the area that those mice decided to modify. One
winter I had a set of mice who had projects which involved
making a hole in the ceiling in every room of the house.
I still haven't figured out the purpose of that.
jmfb...@aol.com
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>In article <7rdh9e$lo9$5...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>In article <FHvrA...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>In article <7rbqar$va5$1...@jetsam.uits.indiana.edu>,
>>glha...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu (Gregory L. Hansen) writes:
>>>
>>>>I've found that people are happy to talk about their
>>>>work if you ask them, and they'll show you around.
>>>
>>>Happy? More than happy, extatic. People who actually make something
>>>happen take great pride in what they're doing.
>>>
> ...
>>
>>fast on my feet.) I just look interested and keep quiet
>>(with an occasional question to prompt further talk).
>
>Yep, that's a good approach. Especially since ...
>
>>Most of the time, any questions (that I would have had) get
>>answered including the ones I would have never thought to
>>ask.
>
>Right on. While, if you keep asking questions, the ones you wouldn't
>think about won't get answered.
Yup. It gives the other person a chance to think about what
he's saying.
>
>> People who are experts also know the tricks of trade
>>that aren't obvious to newbies.
>>
>That's what makes them experts.
>
>>That's not a technique that works in a newsgroup,
>
>Because most of the people you encounter here are anything but
>experts.
Well, aside from that :-)...there's another reason. Silence
on the internet is not a good indicator of interest, since
it is synonomous with no interest. It is the nature of
the beast that prompting is required for any dialogue. The
experts don't write because I'm sitting here looking
interested. Unless they can do that remote viewing stuff;
only mothers know how to do that :-).
Steven B. Harris
>>>>
>>>>Show's that you aren't much of a "do_it_yourselfer":-)
>>>
>>>Well, I've become desperate since men don't seem to want to
>>>do the work. :-)
>>>
>>Did you try paying them?:-)
>
>Money, even a lot of it, is not a lure here. I've been
>thinking of other lures just out of sheer desparation.
Post photo.
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <FHwws...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>In article <7rde6g$2c7$6...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>>
>>>>Show's that you aren't much of a "do_it_yourselfer":-)
>>>
>>>Well, I've become desperate since men don't seem to want to
>>>do the work. :-)
>>>
>>Did you try paying them?:-)
>
>Money, even a lot of it, is not a lure here.
AHh, the problems of strong economy.
>I can't get an electrician to change a switch
>that broke--a 10 minute job, including writing
>out the bill.
If it is still broken by the time I happen to pass through your area,
I'll fix it for you. But this may take a while:-)
>>>
...
>>>OK, that's a start down the path of this thread. Why
>>>would striations that are closer together work in wood and
>>>further apart striations work in sheetrock? (I'm assuming
>>>that's what the nail is used for.)
>>
>>Has to do with the internal consistency of the material. If it is, in
>>effect, a compacted powder, then if the gaps arent big enough you'll
>>just turn it into uncompacted powder. Doesn't hold very well.
>
>I don't understand. When the nail is driven in, the striations
>make a bigger hole. Does the compacted powder then expand to
>fill in the ruts of the nail?
If it is an "uncompacted powder" by then, then it won't. But if
you've chunks which got compressed when you drive the neail in, then
expand again, then yes, you get a holding effect.
>
>And I just looked at the nails that the guy sold me. The
>striations don't match any of the ones pictured in the dictionary.
>So is there a rule of thumb so that I can identify the utlility
>of any particular nail?
Probably, but it would take a professional to know.
>
>If I were a good little girl, I would do as my Mom would do
>and clean the rust off these nails. I'm so glad I'm bad.
>
:-)) My father in law, being brought up in times when nails were
expensive, takes the time to straigten all the used nails he pulls out
of whatever, and to clean the rust off. He then puts them in a box to
be reused. Can't convince him that given the current cost of nails
this is a total waste of time and effort.
>>
>> ...
>>>
>>>Well, the heat of hammering a nail into the material is a part
>>>of the physics, isn't it? Then, when the material around the
>>>nail cools, it sorta settles into the grooves.
>>
>>If at this stage the material is pulverized, it doesn't matter where
>>it settles anymore. It holds nothing.
>
>Are you telling me that I have to nail the blue board slowly
>for successful adhesion to the ceiling?
Can't say for sure, don't recall ever using this particular stuff. In
general, though, it is a good idea not to be too hasty while nailing
stuff.
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <FHwwz...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>In article <7rdh9e$lo9$5...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>In article <FHvrA...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
...
>>
>>> People who are experts also know the tricks of trade
>>>that aren't obvious to newbies.
>>>
>>That's what makes them experts.
>>
>>>That's not a technique that works in a newsgroup,
>>
>>Because most of the people you encounter here are anything but
>>experts.
>
>Well, aside from that :-)...there's another reason. Silence
>on the internet is not a good indicator of interest, since
>it is synonomous with no interest.
Yes, that's true. On the other hans, it is usually easy to
distinguish those truly interested from those who are interested only
in argument.
jmfb...@aol.com
sbha...@ix.netcom.com(Steven B. Harris) wrote:
>In <7rg5p0$gl1$1...@winter.news.rcn.net> jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>Show's that you aren't much of a "do_it_yourselfer":-)
>>>>
>>>>Well, I've become desperate since men don't seem to want to
>>>>do the work. :-)
>>>>
>>>Did you try paying them?:-)
>>
>>thinking of other lures just out of sheer desparation.
>
>
> Post photo.
>
jmfb...@aol.com
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>In article <7rg5p0$gl1$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>In article <FHwws...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>In article <7rde6g$2c7$6...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>Show's that you aren't much of a "do_it_yourselfer":-)
>>>>
>>>>Well, I've become desperate since men don't seem to want to
>>>>do the work. :-)
>>>>
>>>Did you try paying them?:-)
>>
>>Money, even a lot of it, is not a lure here.
>
Yup. Another curious thing around here is
that all those guys who had old trucks and didn't care about
scratches used to make extra bucks snow plowing. Every single
one of them decided to buy a new truck and now they don't want
to plow because they want to keep their trucks shiny.
So, no matter how much money one is willing to throw at them,
they don't want to trade.
>
>>I can't get an electrician to change a switch
>>that broke--a 10 minute job, including writing
>>out the bill.
>
>If it is still broken by the time I happen to pass through your area,
>I'll fix it for you. But this may take a while:-)
Thanks. I appreciate it.
<snip>
>>If I were a good little girl, I would do as my Mom would do
>>and clean the rust off these nails. I'm so glad I'm bad.
>>
>:-)) My father in law, being brought up in times when nails were
>expensive, takes the time to straigten all the used nails he pulls out
>of whatever, and to clean the rust off. He then puts them in a box to
>be reused. Can't convince him that given the current cost of nails
>this is a total waste of time and effort.
Yup. I have the same problem. Mom dumped the crookedest
nails last summer. She kept the ones that were just a
little crooked, mostly due to Dad's insistence. Almost the
same day, Dad had her go buy a new box of nails. How do these
kids say it? Go figure.
>>>>Well, the heat of hammering a nail into the material is a part
>>>>of the physics, isn't it? Then, when the material around the
>>>>nail cools, it sorta settles into the grooves.
>>>
>>>If at this stage the material is pulverized, it doesn't matter where
>>>it settles anymore. It holds nothing.
>>
>>Are you telling me that I have to nail the blue board slowly
>>for successful adhesion to the ceiling?
>
>Can't say for sure, don't recall ever using this particular stuff. In
>general, though, it is a good idea not to be too hasty while nailing
>stuff.
Well, I might not have the option of being hasty since the hammering
involves upsidedown within a cupboard. I haven't nailed something
in a very long time so I intend to be extra careful so I can avoid
thumb restoration expenses. My first task is to figure out how
to custom cut a little piece of blue board to fit the hole I
want to cover up. I've already played with spackling. That
stuff is neat. It's like being in kindergarten all over again.
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <FHyn0...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>In article <7rg5p0$gl1$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>In article <FHwws...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>>In article <7rde6g$2c7$6...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Show's that you aren't much of a "do_it_yourselfer":-)
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, I've become desperate since men don't seem to want to
>>>>>do the work. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>Did you try paying them?:-)
>>>
>>>Money, even a lot of it, is not a lure here.
>>
>>AHh, the problems of strong economy.
>
>Yup. Another curious thing around here is
>that all those guys who had old trucks and didn't care about
>scratches used to make extra bucks snow plowing. Every single
>one of them decided to buy a new truck and now they don't want
>to plow because they want to keep their trucks shiny.
>So, no matter how much money one is willing to throw at them,
>they don't want to trade.
>
willing. There is always a price, though it may be way beyond what's
worthwhile.
...
>>>
>>>Are you telling me that I have to nail the blue board slowly
>>>for successful adhesion to the ceiling?
>>
>>Can't say for sure, don't recall ever using this particular stuff. In
>>general, though, it is a good idea not to be too hasty while nailing
>>stuff.
>
>Well, I might not have the option of being hasty since the hammering
>involves upsidedown within a cupboard.
OK, so speed is out:-)
>I haven't nailed something in a very long time so I intend to be
>extra careful so I can avoid thumb restoration expenses.
Good thinking.
>My first task is to figure out how
>to custom cut a little piece of blue board to fit the hole I
>want to cover up. I've already played with spackling. That
>stuff is neat. It's like being in kindergarten all over again.
Yep. It sure is fun. Just watch it, with home repairs you know where
you start, but you've no idea where you end.
Ken Muldrew
>In article <FHwws...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>OK, that's a start down the path of this thread. Why
>>>would striations that are closer together work in wood and
>>>further apart striations work in sheetrock? (I'm assuming
>>>that's what the nail is used for.)
>>
>>Has to do with the internal consistency of the material. If it is, in
>>effect, a compacted powder, then if the gaps arent big enough you'll
>>just turn it into uncompacted powder. Doesn't hold very well.
>I don't understand. When the nail is driven in, the striations
>make a bigger hole. Does the compacted powder then expand to
>fill in the ruts of the nail?
With drywall, only the paper on the front holds against the head of
the nail; there's no expansion of compacted powder or anything like
that (so if you hit it a little too far and break the paper, you'll
have to put another nail in). The rings are to stop the nails from
backing out of the wood (and they work very well). I'm not sure about
the situation that you're in but remember that you will need backing
for you nails all around the hole that you're patching (e.g. if you
want to patch a small mouse hole, you have to cut a larger hole that
will allow joists on both sides to be partially exposed).
Ken Muldrew
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca
jmfb...@aol.com
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>In article <7riqge$mlj$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>In article <FHyn0...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>In article <7rg5p0$gl1$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com
writes:
writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Show's that you aren't much of a "do_it_yourselfer":-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, I've become desperate since men don't seem to want to
>>>>>>do the work. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>Did you try paying them?:-)
>>>>
>>>>Money, even a lot of it, is not a lure here.
>>>
>>>AHh, the problems of strong economy.
>>
>>Yup. Another curious thing around here is
>>that all those guys who had old trucks and didn't care about
>>scratches used to make extra bucks snow plowing. Every single
>>one of them decided to buy a new truck and now they don't want
>>to plow because they want to keep their trucks shiny.
>>So, no matter how much money one is willing to throw at them,
>>they don't want to trade.
>>
>I'm sure that if you offer them the price of a new truck, they'll be
>willing. There is always a price, though it may be way beyond what's
>worthwhile.
I'm not so sure about that. Those trucks might have names. :-)
>
<snip>
>>My first task is to figure out how
>>to custom cut a little piece of blue board to fit the hole I
>>want to cover up. I've already played with spackling. That
>>stuff is neat. It's like being in kindergarten all over again.
>
>Yep. It sure is fun.
Well, I hadn't considered the attitude of fun over all.
> Just watch it, with home repairs you know where
>you start, but you've no idea where you end.
End? I thought it was like house cleaning, neverending.
I've decided that it would be good for me to face my
fear of electricity by fixing that pesky light switch
myself. So now I'm starting on a game plan with the
goals of not killing myself nor starting a house-warming
incident. Do you fix-it guys put this much thinking into
fixit'ing?
jmfb...@aol.com
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) wrote:
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>
>>In article <FHwws...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>>would striations that are closer together work in wood and
>>>>further apart striations work in sheetrock? (I'm assuming
>>>>that's what the nail is used for.)
>>>
>>>Has to do with the internal consistency of the material. If it is, in
>>>effect, a compacted powder, then if the gaps arent big enough you'll
>>>just turn it into uncompacted powder. Doesn't hold very well.
>
>>I don't understand. When the nail is driven in, the striations
>>make a bigger hole. Does the compacted powder then expand to
>>fill in the ruts of the nail?
>
>With drywall, only the paper on the front holds against the head of
>the nail; there's no expansion of compacted powder or anything like
>that (so if you hit it a little too far and break the paper, you'll
>have to put another nail in).
Ah, I didn't know that.
> The rings are to stop the nails from
>backing out of the wood (and they work very well). I'm not sure about
>the situation that you're in but remember that you will need backing
>for you nails all around the hole that you're patching (e.g. if you
>want to patch a small mouse hole, you have to cut a larger hole that
>will allow joists on both sides to be partially exposed).
I have to cut a hole??? And a larger one? Maybe the guys around
here (who refuse to work on used houses) have a point; it seems
to be easier to build a new one.
My plan was to 1. Fill in mouse hole with spackling (which I've
already done); 2. Cut a piece of blue board that will fill in
the space that the cabinet install left in the "ceiling" of
the cabinet (since the guy used the wood from crates, you may
be able to imagine the inside hit and miss design); cut a piece
of wood to pretent that the cabinet has a wooden ceiling.
Each cabinet in this kitchen is different and require different
attachment campaigns.
It would be so much easier if I could use physics by just
chanting a math formula here and there.
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <FI0n7...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>In article <7riqge$mlj$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
...
>>>
>>>Yup. Another curious thing around here is
>>>that all those guys who had old trucks and didn't care about
>>>scratches used to make extra bucks snow plowing. Every single
>>>one of them decided to buy a new truck and now they don't want
>>>to plow because they want to keep their trucks shiny.
>>>So, no matter how much money one is willing to throw at them,
>>>they don't want to trade.
>>>
>>I'm sure that if you offer them the price of a new truck, they'll be
>>willing. There is always a price, though it may be way beyond what's
>>worthwhile.
>
>I'm not so sure about that. Those trucks might have names. :-)
>>
><snip>
>
>> Just watch it, with home repairs you know where
>>you start, but you've no idea where you end.
>
>End? I thought it was like house cleaning, neverending.
House cleaning may be neverending but the scope, at any moment, is
well defined. Home repairs are more like: attempt to replace a
leaking gasket on a bathroom faucet, break the thread, buy a new
faucet, find that it doesn't fit the pipe, buy a new pipe, discover
that the sink is cracked and only the dirt (which you cleaned up) was
holding it together, buy a new sink ....
>I've decided that it would be good for me to face my
>fear of electricity by fixing that pesky light switch
>myself. So now I'm starting on a game plan with the
>goals of not killing myself nor starting a house-warming
>incident. Do you fix-it guys put this much thinking into
>fixit'ing?
Not that much, but there is some planning involved. What's important
is:
1) Check that you have all you may need before you start work.
2) Do not start anything late evening, or on Saturday afternoon, so
that when you discover that in spite of step (1) you don't have all
you need, you'll still be able to rush to the hardware store and buy
it.
Ken Muldrew
>I've decided that it would be good for me to face my
>fear of electricity by fixing that pesky light switch
>myself. So now I'm starting on a game plan with the
>goals of not killing myself nor starting a house-warming
>incident.
Can't you just turn off the breaker?
>Do you fix-it guys put this much thinking into
>fixit'ing?
No, we learn it all through the school of hard knocks so that by the
time we can do such things efficiently it only appears that we have
planned it out thoroughly. ;-)
BTW, you're lucky that the guys didn't suspect you of having a
floating neutral (search deja news for an ancient sci.physics thread
involving John Baez and floating neutrals if you want to see what kind
of trouble you can get into around here).
Ken Muldrew
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca
Ken Muldrew
>My plan was to 1. Fill in mouse hole with spackling (which I've
>already done);
Is this hole in sheetrock? How large is it?
>2. Cut a piece of blue board that will fill in
>the space that the cabinet install left in the "ceiling" of
Is this covering the mouse hole? What are you nailing it to?
>the cabinet (since the guy used the wood from crates, you may
>be able to imagine the inside hit and miss design);
Your cabinets are made from packing crates? Serious?
>cut a piece
>of wood to pretent that the cabinet has a wooden ceiling.
Then what's the point of the blue board?
>Each cabinet in this kitchen is different and require different
>attachment campaigns. (nice word choice)
I must confess that I'm having trouble visualizing your problem as
well as your proposed solution.
>It would be so much easier if I could use physics by just
>chanting a math formula here and there.
Put crown molding around your kitchen if you want to give your
trigonometry a workout. :-)
Ken Muldrew
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca
john baez
Steven B. Harris <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>But there is no substitute for just wandering along the stacks, pulling
>out and looking at books at random. The kind of thing you cannot do at
>the Library of Congress or the National Library of Medicine, but still
>can at many universities and public libraries. Any time you're feeling
>full of yourself, I recommend such a wander, for the same reason I
>recommend a visit to one of those stores or shops in your city's
>industrial area, on the wrong side of the tracks. If such a jaunt
>doesn't restore your humility, you're a hopeless case.
It's also good to do this when you're feeling bored with life, or
just feeling blue. Wow! There's a lot of cool stuff out there!
Perks you right up.
I too once looked at the pictures of all the different nails
in the dictionary... I still have no idea what they're all for.
But it's even nice just knowing they all exist.
When I was a kid I once compiled a list of all the kinds of
pasta I could find. There are LOTS.
john baez
>Silence on the internet is not a good indicator of interest, since
>the beast that prompting is required for any dialogue. The
>experts don't write because I'm sitting here looking
>interested.
Right. It's also interesting how many people there are
lurking out there with interesting things to say, who materialize
only at the precisely right moment. (While others, like me,
keep blabbing endlessly....) How do you get these people to
tell you what they know? You can't just say "Hey you lurkers
out there, what are you up to?" You have to ask the exact right
question.
jmfb...@aol.com
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) wrote:
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>
>>My plan was to 1. Fill in mouse hole with spackling (which I've
>>already done);
>
>Is this hole in sheetrock? How large is it?
It occurred to me yesterday afternoon that you're giving me
advice based on "new" construction techniques :-). I'm dealing
with horsehair plaster (it's all over this damn house) which
has all dried up due to a summer's worth of A/C (or, at least,
that's my hypothesis about the problem of it all deciding to
drop at once).
>
>>2. Cut a piece of blue board that will fill in
>>the space that the cabinet install left in the "ceiling" of
>
>Is this covering the mouse hole? What are you nailing it to?
It's covering the whole gap of the ceiling that the cupboard
doesn't. I have no idea what I'm nailing
it to. I'm assuming the nails will find the slats.
>
>>the cabinet (since the guy used the wood from crates, you may
>>be able to imagine the inside hit and miss design);
>
>Your cabinets are made from packing crates? Serious?
Yup. What I wish that the guy invested in a dollar's worth
of sand paper but I'm not going to smooth out the rough wood.
I've actually found that the spackling does some that.
A lot of the wood still has the original stamp on it.
>
>>cut a piece
>>of wood to pretent that the cabinet has a wooden ceiling.
>
>Then what's the point of the blue board?
To fill the gap between the trusses and the kitchen ceiling.
You're going to make me do ASCII art here. Here's a view
of the top of this particular cabinet from the POV from
my head laying on the top shelf looking up.
___________________
| | <--this is a piece of wood attached as a
|_________________| part of the cabinet
| |
| O | <--this is a 1/2" gap that uses the kitchen
| | ceiling as the top of the cabinet. It has
|_________________| a mousehole now filled with spackling.
| | <-- This is another piece of board.
| |
-------------------
My plan is to cut a piece of blue board to fill that gap such
that the top of the cupboard has an even and completely filled
surface. The reason to fill in that big gap is to prevent
affordable housing for mice and spiders. Then I'm going to
hammer the board I cut (and soon will paint white) onto the
two wooden pieces of the cupboard so that, just in case there
are tenants, they can't drop their garbage on my stuff in the
cupboard.
See!! :-) As long as the blue board stays up there until
I nail the newly cut board up, it doesn't matter what it's
nailed to....right? Please tell me if I'm wrong.
>
>>Each cabinet in this kitchen is different and require different
>>attachment campaigns. (nice word choice)
>
>I must confess that I'm having trouble visualizing your problem as
>well as your proposed solution.
Did my art help? I'm not very good at that sort of stuff.
>
>>It would be so much easier if I could use physics by just
>>chanting a math formula here and there.
>
>Put crown molding around your kitchen if you want to give your
>trigonometry a workout. :-)
It's already there and it's painted a bright red :-((((
The only reason I'm doing any of this is to paint the
shit-eating brown white so I can see. The reason I
can't see (other than I seem to be acquiring a strange
form of blindness) is that the switch of the pull chain
broke so I can't turn on my 240W worth of lighting.
I do not decorate. I only want stuff to be functional.
jmfb...@aol.com
>>fear of electricity by fixing that pesky light switch
>>myself. So now I'm starting on a game plan with the
>>goals of not killing myself nor starting a house-warming
>>incident.
>
>Can't you just turn off the breaker?
Oh, of course. But I have to turn it back on again
(the breaker's in the basement), walk back upstairs,
check the light for smoke and illumination; if smokey,
run back downstairs and flip breaker switch, set on
steps and then try to figure out how to get the two
legged critter who knows about that stuff into my
house before the refridgerator warms up. On second
thought, maybe I'm not going to do it myself. The
changes are 50% that I'm still going to need a two
legged critter. If there are three wires to connect,
then the changes are 75%. Those wires aren't colored
differently because you guys have a sense of decoration;
there's a secret code that would tell me the ?ground?
Nope. That can't be right; that light can't have a ground.
>
>>Do you fix-it guys put this much thinking into
>>fixit'ing?
>
>No, we learn it all through the school of hard knocks so that by the
>time we can do such things efficiently it only appears that we have
>planned it out thoroughly. ;-)
Damn. I wasn't allowed in that school.
>
>BTW, you're lucky that the guys didn't suspect you of having a
>floating neutral (search deja news for an ancient sci.physics thread
>involving John Baez and floating neutrals if you want to see what kind
>of trouble you can get into around here).
A floating neutral? I guarantee you, I have no intention of
playing with my car; there are still guys who are willing to do that
at the Honda dealer in exchange for money. Anyway, they don't
make cars like they used to so I no longer know where to bang
the hammer :-) or wriggle the plugs. -jb got into trouble here?
That must have been some thread :-))). Was he reduced to
wizardly blasts of lightning?
jmfb...@aol.com
Or say something so outrageous that they overcome their shyness.
Actually, I use outrageousness to get people, who post
often, to begin talking about stuff with real meat in it (not
this newsgroup..another one).
There are different approaches, but these approaches certainly
can't be fine-tuned for individuals (since you don't know who
they are). The problem I see is the authoritarianism these
people were taught which started out as "kids should be seen
and not heard". In a logical sense, you're an adult in your
biz and the "kids" keep waiting for you to talk.
I don't know how to solve the problem in this flavor of media,
but I'm working on it.
jmfb...@aol.com
Oh, but that stuff happens only if you let a guy do it. Bring
in a guy to fix one thing, he'll begin a causation that requires
hiring 2 more guys. I learned that a when I bought a new stove.
The stove that came with this house had a tendency to spit white
balls at me whenever I opened the bottom drawer (electric stove).
So I bought a stove. Guy 1 delivered the stove, removed the old
stove, and said that I needed an electrician because the pig
tail was out of spec since it had to be plugged in downstairs
and it couldn't reach that far. Called an electrician who did
whatever he was supposed to do (pig tails took on a whole new
meaning with that exercise), breaking a water pipe while fixing
things so I could cook. Called a plumber to fix the pipe so I
didn't have a swimming pool downstairs and didn't have to walk
to the bathroom for my cooking water. I don't remember what the
plumber broke but it wasn't worth getting fixed so that something
else could break.
I've got a lot more stories along these lines. It's always 3.
That is a universal constant.
>
>>I've decided that it would be good for me to face my
>>fear of electricity by fixing that pesky light switch
>>myself. So now I'm starting on a game plan with the
>>goals of not killing myself nor starting a house-warming
>>incident. Do you fix-it guys put this much thinking into
>>fixit'ing?
>
>Not that much, but there is some planning involved. What's important
>is:
>
>1) Check that you have all you may need before you start work.
>
>2) Do not start anything late evening, or on Saturday afternoon, so
>that when you discover that in spite of step (1) you don't have all
>you need, you'll still be able to rush to the hardware store and buy
>it.
Yup. I'm aware of those steps. Dad followed them all the
time when I watched him as a kid. However, even if you
follow step 2, it was guaranteed that he would discover
a negation of step 1 exactly [driving time to the supply house
minus 5 minutes] minutes before the end of the day. :-)
jmfb...@aol.com
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) wrote:
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>>Do you fix-it guys put this much thinking into
>>fixit'ing?
>
>No, we learn it all through the school of hard knocks so that by the
>time we can do such things efficiently it only appears that we have
>planned it out thoroughly. ;-)
When is graduation?
Ken Muldrew
>In article <7rm3pl$m...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,
> kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) wrote:
>>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>I've decided that it would be good for me to face my
>>>fear of electricity by fixing that pesky light switch
>>>myself. So now I'm starting on a game plan with the
>>>goals of not killing myself nor starting a house-warming
>>>incident.
>>
>>Can't you just turn off the breaker?
>Oh, of course. But I have to turn it back on again
>(the breaker's in the basement), walk back upstairs,
>check the light for smoke and illumination; if smokey,
>run back downstairs and flip breaker switch,
They call them breakers because they break the circuit when too much
current is flowing through them; hopefully this happens before any
smoke appears. Are you repairing a wall switch or (as you mention in
another post) a pull chain on the fixture. If it's a wall switch that
just controls one fixture, it's really simple to fix: buy a new switch
(they're not expensive), turn off the breaker, remove old switch,
attach wires that were on old switch to new switch (they're both the
same, colour doesn't matter here), put new switch into box and turn it
off, turn on breaker, turn on light. If it's a fixture with a pull
chain, buy a new fixture, turn off breaker, remove old fixture, move
wires to new fixture attaching black wire (hot) to the brass screw and
white wire (neutral) to the other screw, replace fixture, turn on
breaker, turn on light.
>A floating neutral? I guarantee you, I have no intention of
>playing with my car;
The neutral is the side of your service that's grounded at the panel.
> -jb got into trouble here?
>That must have been some thread :-))). Was he reduced to
>wizardly blasts of lightning?
There might have been some sparks if he really did have a floating
neutral but I think he just had a flaky switch or something.
Ken Muldrew
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca
Ken Muldrew
>My plan is to cut a piece of blue board to fill that gap such
>that the top of the cupboard has an even and completely filled
>surface. The reason to fill in that big gap is to prevent
>affordable housing for mice and spiders. Then I'm going to
>hammer the board I cut (and soon will paint white) onto the
>two wooden pieces of the cupboard so that, just in case there
>are tenants, they can't drop their garbage on my stuff in the
>cupboard.
OK, I get it. Your plan should work just fine except nailing a board
onto those two wooden pieces is probably a bad idea. For one thing it
will break your spackle patch but more importantly, since your
cabinets are just packing crates, those boards are probably just
nailed on themselves. By banging on them with a hammer, you'll
probably loosen them. Better to attach that piece of wood using a
couple of screws (get the Robertson (square drive) screws as they are
by far the easiest for upside down application).
>See!! :-) As long as the blue board stays up there until
>I nail the newly cut board up, it doesn't matter what it's
>nailed to....right? Please tell me if I'm wrong.
Well, if it's nailed to nothing except horsehair plaster, it might not
stay up that long. You could just glue it in place (or even a couple
of strips of duct tape over the edges--using duct tape is a bonus in
any DIY job).
>The only reason I'm doing any of this is to paint the
>shit-eating brown white so I can see. The reason I
>can't see (other than I seem to be acquiring a strange
>form of blindness) is that the switch of the pull chain
>broke so I can't turn on my 240W worth of lighting.
Fix the light; a broken switch can be a dangerous thing to have
around.
>I do not decorate. I only want stuff to be functional.
Well, sure, but packing crates for cabinets seems to be a little
extreme.
Ken Muldrew
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca
Ken Muldrew
>I too once looked at the pictures of all the different nails
>in the dictionary... I still have no idea what they're all for.
Well go ahead and ask. There are many people lurking out there with
interesting things to say, who materialize only at the precisely right
moment.
[I thought it was strange that one person looked at pictures of nails
in a dictionary; now there are two? Just how common is this? Don't you
people ever go to hardware stores?]
Ken Muldrew
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <FI23n...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>End? I thought it was like house cleaning, neverending.
>>
>>House cleaning may be neverending but the scope, at any moment, is
>>well defined. Home repairs are more like: attempt to replace a
>>leaking gasket on a bathroom faucet, break the thread, buy a new
>>faucet, find that it doesn't fit the pipe, buy a new pipe, discover
>>that the sink is cracked and only the dirt (which you cleaned up) was
>>holding it together, buy a new sink ....
>
>Oh, but that stuff happens only if you let a guy do it.
Ohh, a gal will manage just as well. Try it.
... story of mishaps...
>
>I've got a lot more stories along these lines. It's always 3.
>That is a universal constant.
Yes, indeed. Now, something my mother used to do, when two things
went wrong in succession, was to pick something, say, a glass, and
break it. THis way the magical 3 was completed and the curse was
removed.
...
>>
>>Not that much, but there is some planning involved. What's important
>>is:
>>
>>1) Check that you have all you may need before you start work.
>>
>>2) Do not start anything late evening, or on Saturday afternoon, so
>>that when you discover that in spite of step (1) you don't have all
>>you need, you'll still be able to rush to the hardware store and buy
>>it.
>
>Yup. I'm aware of those steps. Dad followed them all the
>time when I watched him as a kid. However, even if you
>follow step 2, it was guaranteed that he would discover
>a negation of step 1 exactly [driving time to the supply house
>minus 5 minutes] minutes before the end of the day. :-)
Of course. You really can't beat Murphy.
Kevin A. Scaldeferri
Although 24 hour hardware stores go a long way on this one. This is
possibly the best thing about Home Depot.
--
======================================================================
Kevin Scaldeferri Calif. Institute of Technology
The INTJ's Prayer:
Lord keep me open to others' ideas, WRONG though they may be.
jmfb...@aol.com
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>In article <7ro68s$5a$6...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>In article <FI23n...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>
>>>House cleaning may be neverending but the scope, at any moment, is
>>>well defined. Home repairs are more like: attempt to replace a
>>>leaking gasket on a bathroom faucet, break the thread, buy a new
>>>faucet, find that it doesn't fit the pipe, buy a new pipe, discover
>>>that the sink is cracked and only the dirt (which you cleaned up) was
>>>holding it together, buy a new sink ....
>>
>>Oh, but that stuff happens only if you let a guy do it.
>
>Ohh, a gal will manage just as well. Try it.
ROTFL. Well, my data sample does consist of 100% male errors :-).
This gal thinks of all possibilities with Plans A-Z to deal with
each possibility. Then decides to let somebody else do it. I've
now almost talked myself out of futzing with the electricity :-).
Maybe if I seem pitiful....
The project is probably moot for the next week or so. The last
time on those hurricanes came through, I didn't have power
for a week.
It looks like /jac survived :-)
>
> ... story of mishaps...
>>
>>I've got a lot more stories along these lines. It's always 3.
>>That is a universal constant.
>
>Yes, indeed. Now, something my mother used to do, when two things
>went wrong in succession, was to pick something, say, a glass, and
>break it. THis way the magical 3 was completed and the curse was
>removed.
Really? That works? I always thought that a purposeful mishap
would start another round because the chain was of a completely
different flavor. Besides _my_ mother would have never let me
do that. Breaking a glass was very wasteful. The solution to
that was always having to use plastic glasses ...yuk.
jmfb...@aol.com
>OK, I get it. Your plan should work just fine except nailing a board
>onto those two wooden pieces is probably a bad idea. For one thing it
>will break your spackle patch but more importantly, since your
>cabinets are just packing crates, those boards are probably just
>nailed on themselves. By banging on them with a hammer, you'll
>probably loosen them.
Aha! I never thought about that. Based on the lack of nail
holes, they are. And I was so hesitant about writing about
this stuff even though it is a physics' application.
>Better to attach that piece of wood using a
>couple of screws (get the Robertson (square drive) screws as they are
>by far the easiest for upside down application).
I've never heard of them. What's a square drive? Or are you
talking about those screws that have a square head that sorta
attaches themselves to the electric screw driver indentation?
That means that you're suggesting that I buy an electric screw
driver. This is getting expensive. Have I just discovered a
monetary black hole?
>
>>See!! :-) As long as the blue board stays up there until
>>I nail the newly cut board up, it doesn't matter what it's
>>nailed to....right? Please tell me if I'm wrong.
>
>Well, if it's nailed to nothing except horsehair plaster, it might not
>stay up that long. You could just glue it in place (or even a couple
>of strips of duct tape over the edges--using duct tape is a bonus in
>any DIY job).
Oh, NEAT! Duct tape. I use it for everything. Just fixed my
running toilet with it. They're not making duct tape like they
used to. It's flimsier...jerks. There are some things
that just shouldn't be improved.
>
>>The only reason I'm doing any of this is to paint the
>>shit-eating brown white so I can see. The reason I
>>can't see (other than I seem to be acquiring a strange
>>form of blindness) is that the switch of the pull chain
>>broke so I can't turn on my 240W worth of lighting.
>
>Fix the light; a broken switch can be a dangerous thing to have
>around.
Yea, I know. My fears were never based on flights of fancy.
>
>>I do not decorate. I only want stuff to be functional.
>
>Well, sure, but packing crates for cabinets seems to be a little
>extreme.
The guy who owned this house did some [ahem] amazing things. The price
was worth it though.
jmfb...@aol.com
Those bins are guarded by invisible dragons who are tended
by guys armored in aprons and cotton work clothes who have
very strange and mysterious incantations that bedazzle the
uninitiated.
Besides the money extracting spells that are in
book stores appear to hover over those hardware stores.
/BAH
jmfb...@aol.com
>> kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) wrote:
>>>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>I've decided that it would be good for me to face my
>>>>fear of electricity by fixing that pesky light switch
>>>>myself. So now I'm starting on a game plan with the
>>>>goals of not killing myself nor starting a house-warming
>>>>incident.
>>>
>>>Can't you just turn off the breaker?
>
>>Oh, of course. But I have to turn it back on again
>>(the breaker's in the basement), walk back upstairs,
>>check the light for smoke and illumination; if smokey,
>>run back downstairs and flip breaker switch,
>
>They call them breakers because they break the circuit when too much
>current is flowing through them; hopefully this happens before any
>smoke appears.
Yup. But I just don't trust it; it's an unreasonable superstition
but it's there.
>Are you repairing a wall switch or (as you mention in
>another post) a pull chain on the fixture.
Pull chain on a ceiling light.
<snip recipe for wall fixture fix>
> If it's a fixture with a pull
>chain, buy a new fixture, ...
Stop. I have to take out the old fixture, bring to some store
yet to be found, and use it to figure out what to buy.
> ... turn off breaker, remove old fixture, move
>wires to new fixture attaching black wire (hot) to the brass screw and
>white wire (neutral) to the other screw, replace fixture, turn on
>breaker, turn on light.
That assumes that the previous owner ran black and white according
to spec. I don't think I can trust it. The guys who have
replaced this switch before (it breaks about every 5 years or
so) always stopped, thought "Now what do I do with THIS?" while
holding a wire in their hand, and then did something
like, "Weeellll, let's try this." I don't
have the background circuitry that will give me a lucky guess.
>
>>A floating neutral? I guarantee you, I have no intention of
>>playing with my car;
>
>The neutral is the side of your service that's grounded at the panel.
Oh, that. The last electrician who crossed my door jamb managed
to put half of the plugs bassackwards.
<snip>
jmfb...@aol.com
ba...@charity.ucr.edu (john baez) wrote:
<snip>
>When I was a kid I once compiled a list of all the kinds of
>pasta I could find. There are LOTS.
Wow, you were already working on studying surfaces and
knots when you were a kid.
When I was a kid, there were only two that I knew about:
noodles and elbow macaroni. It wasn't until I got to
college that I learned about Italian cooking...among
others.
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <FI4IB...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>In article <7ro68s$5a$6...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>In article <FI23n...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>>
>>>>House cleaning may be neverending but the scope, at any moment, is
>>>>well defined. Home repairs are more like: attempt to replace a
>>>>leaking gasket on a bathroom faucet, break the thread, buy a new
>>>>faucet, find that it doesn't fit the pipe, buy a new pipe, discover
>>>>that the sink is cracked and only the dirt (which you cleaned up) was
>>>>holding it together, buy a new sink ....
>>>
>>>Oh, but that stuff happens only if you let a guy do it.
>>
>>Ohh, a gal will manage just as well. Try it.
>
>ROTFL. Well, my data sample does consist of 100% male errors :-).
Yep, thought so:-)
>The project is probably moot for the next week or so. The last
>time on those hurricanes came through, I didn't have power
>for a week.
>
Sounds like when Gloria hit Long Island.
>It looks like /jac survived :-)
>
Yep, it missed him. I'm sure he wasn't disappointed.
>> ... story of mishaps...
>>>
>>>I've got a lot more stories along these lines. It's always 3.
>>>That is a universal constant.
>>
>>Yes, indeed. Now, something my mother used to do, when two things
>>went wrong in succession, was to pick something, say, a glass, and
>>break it. THis way the magical 3 was completed and the curse was
>>removed.
>
>Really? That works?
I don't believe it:-) But then, do you know the story about Niels
Bohr and the horseshoe.
>I always thought that a purposeful mishap
>would start another round because the chain was of a completely
>different flavor. Besides _my_ mother would have never let me
>do that. Breaking a glass was very wasteful. The solution to
>that was always having to use plastic glasses ...yuk.
Uggh. Never liked the taste of plastic
Ken Muldrew
>In article <7rop23$8...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,
> kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) wrote:
>>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>They call them breakers because they break the circuit when too much
>>current is flowing through them; hopefully this happens before any
>>smoke appears.
>Yup. But I just don't trust it; it's an unreasonable superstition
>but it's there.
Time to excorcise that demon, call in dogbert.
>>Are you repairing a wall switch or (as you mention in
>>another post) a pull chain on the fixture.
>Pull chain on a ceiling light.
><snip recipe for wall fixture fix>
>> If it's a fixture with a pull
>>chain, buy a new fixture, ...
>Stop. I have to take out the old fixture, bring to some store
>yet to be found, and use it to figure out what to buy.
OK then, turn off breaker, remove old fixture, put tape over exposed
wire on the two leads, turn breaker back on (if you need the circuit
for other things), go to store with old fixture, etc.
>> ... turn off breaker, remove old fixture, move
>>wires to new fixture attaching black wire (hot) to the brass screw and
>>white wire (neutral) to the other screw, replace fixture, turn on
>>breaker, turn on light.
>That assumes that the previous owner ran black and white according
>to spec. I don't think I can trust it.
I guess that means you haven't had an electrician (or more likely, an
apprentice) do this job for you. If it was reversed last time (and
assuming it was correct before that) then you have had 5 years with
the polarity reversed on that particular circuit. The lights don't
care, of course, since they just dissipate current to make the
filament incandesce, but if there are outlets on the same circuit
(outlets that have one slot that is longer than the other) then you
might want the polarity to be correct. This will require a minimal set
of test equipment and knowledge, in addition to being handy.
>The guys who have
>replaced this switch before (it breaks about every 5 years or
>so) always stopped, thought "Now what do I do with THIS?" while
>holding a wire in their hand, and then did something
>like, "Weeellll, let's try this."
Could have been gratuitous bravado to impress you.
Ken Muldrew
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca
Ken Muldrew
>In article <7ropkt$m...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,
> kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) wrote:
>>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
><snip plan>
>>Better to attach that piece of wood using a
>>couple of screws (get the Robertson (square drive) screws as they are
>>by far the easiest for upside down application).
>I've never heard of them. What's a square drive?
You know how old screws have slots cut in them for a screwdriver with
a straight piece of metal to drive? And Phillips screws have two slots
at right angles so that they look like a plus sign. Robertson screws
(often called "square drive" in the US due to trademark avoidance)
have a square recess in the top of the screws. The screwdrivers have a
square protrustion that is used to drive the screws. In Canada, these
are by far the most popular screws (because they just work so much
better than the others). You should be able to get them at any decent
hardware store.
>Or are you
>talking about those screws that have a square head that sorta
>attaches themselves to the electric screw driver indentation?
>That means that you're suggesting that I buy an electric screw
>driver.
Certainly not. A handheld screwdriver is perfectly adequate and will
only cost a dollar or two (but make sure you get the proper size for
the screws that you buy).
> This is getting expensive. Have I just discovered a
>monetary black hole?
Tools? Oh yeah, they can set you back if you let them but your
attitude of expedience and function will probably prevent any
tendencies to become a collector (as opposed to a user).
[snip]
>Oh, NEAT! Duct tape. I use it for everything. Just fixed my
>running toilet with it. They're not making duct tape like they
>used to. It's flimsier...jerks. There are some things
>that just shouldn't be improved.
Hah! You can still get the old stuff. A Canadian company called Lee
Valley Tools sells it (they do mail order as well, and once you
convert $US to $CAN you can pretty much buy anything you want for
change). On the web at http://www.leevalley.com/ and you can read
about the original duct tape at
http://www.leevalley.com/woodwork/newprodu/feb9801/origduct.htm
Ken Muldrew
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca
Jim Carr
}
} In article <7ropkt$m...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,
} kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) wrote:
} >Better to attach that piece of wood using a
} >couple of screws (get the Robertson (square drive) screws as they are
} >by far the easiest for upside down application).
}
} I've never heard of them. What's a square drive?
In article <7rrddo$c...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) writes:
>
>You know how old screws have slots cut in them for a screwdriver with
>a straight piece of metal to drive? And Phillips screws have two slots
>at right angles so that they look like a plus sign. Robertson screws
>(often called "square drive" in the US due to trademark avoidance)
>have a square recess in the top of the screws. The screwdrivers have a
>square protrustion that is used to drive the screws. In Canada, these
>are by far the most popular screws (because they just work so much
>better than the others). You should be able to get them at any decent
>hardware store.
They are often used in dry wall installation in the US. Also used
where the installer does not want the owner to take out the screw
(like when hanging cabinets). I know I ended up having to get a drive
for a power screwdriver and use a ratchet attachment since non-power
versions of that kind of screwdriver seem to be rare in the US. Later
I got a power screw driver. ;-)
There are also screws with "star" (asterisk shaped) drive, hex
drives, and what I always called "slotted" -- where the head has
just two indents on opposite sides and the driver is sort of a
fork. Used when they *definitely* don't want you to take out
the screw. Screens in our dorm room were held in by those.
--
James A. Carr <j...@scri.fsu.edu> | Commercial e-mail is _NOT_
http://www.scri.fsu.edu/~jac/ | desired to this or any address
Supercomputer Computations Res. Inst. | that resolves to my account
Florida State, Tallahassee FL 32306 | for any reason at any time.
Randy Poe
> there's a secret code that would tell me the ?ground?
> Nope. That can't be right; that light can't have a ground.
Black is hot, white is neutral, copper is ground. There's
also a convention on the light switch. I believe it's
"black on the brass screw". I had a pamphlet from the
hardware store that helped me keep the conventions
straight.
It's fun working with grungy old wiring, as I often
am in my house, when "black" and "white" look identical.
I've skipped most of this thread, mostly because
of multi-level quotes of quotes. So I don't know
what you mean by "that light can't have a ground".
Exposed metal parts are supposed to be grounded,
& you should always have a conductive path to
ground available to connect to.
- Randy
Randy Poe
> >No, we learn it all through the school of hard knocks so that by the
> >time we can do such things efficiently it only appears that we have
> >planned it out thoroughly. ;-)
>
> When is graduation?
Graduation exercise 1: My hand resting on the metal lab
bench, I feel around underneath for the 240 V switch
to turn off bench power. ZZZZAPPPP!!!! Found it. Interesting
sensations across my chest from 240V to ground. (circa 1975)
Graduation exercise 2: Spent all morning attaching a BNC
connector to the end of a custom-made cable. As I approach
the piece of equipment I'm plugging it into, one hot
contact accidentally touches the case. ZZZAPPPP!!! I'm
holding a connector. The wire vaporized. (ca. 1976,
same job)
Post-graduation exercise, as recently as a couple of
months ago: Screwing a light bulb with the wrong base
into a socket, with the power on. ZZZAPPPP! Smoke,
whole house goes dark. First time I ever blew the
main circuit breaker.
This stuff happens. You just think about it, use
your voltmeter to keep yourself honest, think through
worst-case scenarios, and take precautions to make
sure that if you still do something really stupid
you and your house will live through it.
But don't hesitate to call a pro when you are out
of your element. I do plenty of wiring around here,
but I never, repeat never do anything around the
breaker box or the outside lines. Don't even use
my extension ladder on that side of the house.
- Randy
Andy Resnick
Then there's also the hex heads w/ a pin in the center so you can't use a
standard hex drive to remove them (seen on playground equipment) and a
variation of the standard screwhead but with the sides cut away so you can
only drive them in and not back them out (seen in bathroom stalls)
Andy
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>
>Hah! You can still get the old stuff. A Canadian company called Lee
>Valley Tools sells it (they do mail order as well, and once you
>convert $US to $CAN you can pretty much buy anything you want for
>change). On the web at http://www.leevalley.com/ and you can read
>about the original duct tape at
>http://www.leevalley.com/woodwork/newprodu/feb9801/origduct.htm
>
Stephen Riley
writes
>Uggh. Never liked the taste of plastic
Talking of which, would you then prefer cocoa-cola in plastic or glass
bottles?
With my fridge I have a plastic container with spigot/tap and it will
hold maybe a few litres of a liquid. It'd never been used in the past,
but this summer I thought I'd fill it with water so as to mix with
concentrate when wanted for a cold drink. When used the taste wasn't
pleasant - even though it was just water in there with nothing to go
off. Shaking to aerate didn't appear to improve the taste.
Question is, is this the plastic giving an unpleasant taste, or is it
because it's still water. I didn't get around to doing an experiment
(say by using a glass container).
--
Stephen Riley
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <FI5u5...@midway.uchicago.edu>, me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>writes
>
>>Uggh. Never liked the taste of plastic
>
>Talking of which, would you then prefer cocoa-cola in plastic or glass
>bottles?
>
has a strong enough taste to cover nearly anything else:-) Some
tastes are more delicate than others. Thus you can drink coffee out
of a plastic glass, but tea out of plastic tastes bad. Similarly, you
can drink bourbon out of practically anything, but good cognac only
out of glass.
>With my fridge I have a plastic container with spigot/tap and it will
>hold maybe a few litres of a liquid. It'd never been used in the past,
>but this summer I thought I'd fill it with water so as to mix with
>concentrate when wanted for a cold drink. When used the taste wasn't
>pleasant - even though it was just water in there with nothing to go
>off. Shaking to aerate didn't appear to improve the taste.
>
>Question is, is this the plastic giving an unpleasant taste, or is it
>because it's still water. I didn't get around to doing an experiment
>(say by using a glass container).
>
At least from my experience, it is the plastic and, no matter how many
times you'll empty and refill the container, you'll still taste it.
But, try to run a comparison study. Will be interesting to hear the
results.
Richard Herring
> wires to new fixture attaching black wire (hot) to the brass screw and
> white wire (neutral) to the other screw, replace fixture, turn on
> breaker, turn on light.
> The neutral is the side of your service that's grounded at the panel.
Careful; this is an international medium, and national wiring codes
vary considerably (even between Canada and USA, I suspect.)
*My* brown and blue wires both go to brass screws and the blue one
is only grounded at the substation. Except when they are red and black ;-)
--
Richard Herring | <richard...@gecm.com>
jmfb...@aol.com
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>In article <7rqk7v$4hm$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>In article <FI4IB...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>In article <7ro68s$5a$6...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>>In article <FI23n...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>>>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>House cleaning may be neverending but the scope, at any moment, is
>>>>>well defined. Home repairs are more like: attempt to replace a
>>>>>leaking gasket on a bathroom faucet, break the thread, buy a new
>>>>>faucet, find that it doesn't fit the pipe, buy a new pipe, discover
>>>>>that the sink is cracked and only the dirt (which you cleaned up) was
>>>>>holding it together, buy a new sink ....
>>>>
>>>>Oh, but that stuff happens only if you let a guy do it.
>>>
>>>Ohh, a gal will manage just as well. Try it.
>>
>>ROTFL. Well, my data sample does consist of 100% male errors :-).
>
>Yep, thought so:-)
Yup. But I would like to have a data sample that included females.
My hypothesis is that I wouldn't have to clean up after them.
However, they're as rare as hen's teeth.
>
>>The project is probably moot for the next week or so. The last
>>time on those hurricanes came through, I didn't have power
>>for a week.
>>
>Sounds like when Gloria hit Long Island.
Yup. But the hurricane fizzled out up here. I'm not going
to make a comment about lost power because that would
guarantee that I will.
>
>>It looks like /jac survived :-)
>>
>Yep, it missed him. I'm sure he wasn't disappointed.
Yea. I couldn't believe how HUGE that thing was. We started
getting rain when the reports stated that the hurricane was
in Maryland. And I got really confused when the news reports
were talking about landfall in a Carolina and a guy called
the radio talk show, stated he was in Florida and that the
eye was due east of him.
>
>>> ... story of mishaps...
>>>>
>>>>I've got a lot more stories along these lines. It's always 3.
>>>>That is a universal constant.
>>>
>>>Yes, indeed. Now, something my mother used to do, when two things
>>>went wrong in succession, was to pick something, say, a glass, and
>>>break it. THis way the magical 3 was completed and the curse was
>>>removed.
>>
>>Really? That works?
>
>I don't believe it:-) But then, do you know the story about Niels
>Bohr and the horseshoe.
No, I don't. What is the story of Niels Bohr and the horseshoe?
<snip>
jmfb...@aol.com
in dorm rooms? We had removable screens. After the fifth
panty raid, we got fed up (we wanted to study and/or sleep
in peace). A girl down the hall bought a bunch of condoms,
filled them up water, and let them drop. I believe that
was the last one that happened.
jmfb...@aol.com
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>In article <7rrddo$c...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>, kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken
Muldrew) writes:
>>
>>Hah! You can still get the old stuff. A Canadian company called Lee
>>Valley Tools sells it (they do mail order as well, and once you
>>convert $US to $CAN you can pretty much buy anything you want for
>>change). On the web at http://www.leevalley.com/ and you can read
>>about the original duct tape at
>>http://www.leevalley.com/woodwork/newprodu/feb9801/origduct.htm
>>
>Oh, thanks. That's useful info.
Yup. Guess what I'll be buying when I breeze through Canada. :-)
Then I can dump the shitty duct tape that I have now.
jmfb...@aol.com
<grin> And I have no idea what the "standard" of the previous
owner was, but I suspect that he had his own. One of the
very first things that I did when I moved into this house was
called an electrician (he was hungry back then) because little
balls of white fire kept getting spit at me whenever I opened
the fuse box.
jmfb...@aol.com
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) wrote:
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>
>>In article <7ropkt$m...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,
>> kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) wrote:
>><snip plan>
>
>>>Better to attach that piece of wood using a
>>>couple of screws (get the Robertson (square drive) screws as they are
>>>by far the easiest for upside down application).
>
>>I've never heard of them. What's a square drive?
>
>a straight piece of metal to drive? And Phillips screws have two slots
>at right angles so that they look like a plus sign.
Yup. Yup.
> Robertson screws
>(often called "square drive" in the US due to trademark avoidance)
>have a square recess in the top of the screws. The screwdrivers have a
>square protrustion that is used to drive the screws. In Canada, these
>are by far the most popular screws (because they just work so much
>better than the others). You should be able to get them at any decent
>hardware store.
A decent hardware store may be a rarity these days. The hardware
stores I visited years ago, used to be willing to help and teach.
When I bought the nails for the blue board, the guy tried to charge
me for a pound rather than 1/2 pound of nails.
>
>>Or are you
>>talking about those screws that have a square head that sorta
>>attaches themselves to the electric screw driver indentation?
>>That means that you're suggesting that I buy an electric screw
>>driver.
>
>Certainly not. A handheld screwdriver is perfectly adequate and will
>only cost a dollar or two (but make sure you get the proper size for
>the screws that you buy).
I didn't know that handheld screwdrivers existed for those screw
heads. I had always assumed that this design was exclusive for
power screwdrivers because the other head designs wouldn't work--
the screw heads would get stripped often.
>
>> This is getting expensive. Have I just discovered a
>>monetary black hole?
>
>Tools? Oh yeah, they can set you back if you let them but your
>attitude of expedience and function will probably prevent any
>tendencies to become a collector (as opposed to a user).
I watched that TV guy you talked about (I it was you who
mentioned the show). That guy's work area is bigger than
my house!
<snip a most useful piece of knowledge> Thanks :-).
jmfb...@aol.com
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>> >No, we learn it all through the school of hard knocks so that by the
>> >time we can do such things efficiently it only appears that we have
>> >planned it out thoroughly. ;-)
>>
>> When is graduation?
>
>Graduation exercise 1: My hand resting on the metal lab
>bench, I feel around underneath for the 240 V switch
>to turn off bench power. ZZZZAPPPP!!!! Found it. Interesting
>sensations across my chest from 240V to ground. (circa 1975)
>
>Graduation exercise 2: Spent all morning attaching a BNC
>connector to the end of a custom-made cable. As I approach
>the piece of equipment I'm plugging it into, one hot
>contact accidentally touches the case. ZZZAPPPP!!! I'm
>holding a connector. The wire vaporized. (ca. 1976,
>same job)
I will never survive those exercises. I didn't have
to be holding a wire to get heebee-jeebees when I
walked into our machine room. Our computers' wires
were 2-1/2 inches in diameter and the plugs were very
long thin boxes that were suspened above one's head.
>
>Post-graduation exercise, as recently as a couple of
>months ago: Screwing a light bulb with the wrong base
>into a socket, with the power on. ZZZAPPPP! Smoke,
>whole house goes dark. First time I ever blew the
>main circuit breaker.
>
>This stuff happens. You just think about it, use
>your voltmeter to keep yourself honest, think through
>worst-case scenarios, and take precautions to make
>sure that if you still do something really stupid
>you and your house will live through it.
Now I need a voltmeter?
>
>But don't hesitate to call a pro when you are out
>of your element.
<snip>
Well that's what started all the problems. I can't get a
pro and am now considering going to the underground.
The only reason I started painting that area white was
so I could see the stove. The reason I can't see the
stove is because the pull chain switch broke. I didn't
want to fix it; it is my responsibility to circulate money
into the neighborhood by hiring somebody to do that work.
House fixing would never be a choice of occupying my time.
I have a brand new math book; I would rather be reading that
than actively solving my can't-see problem.
/BAH
Jim Carr
r...@gmrc.gecm.com (Richard Herring) wrote:
}
} In article <7rop23$8...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,
} Ken Muldrew (kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca) wrote:
} > wires to new fixture attaching black wire (hot) to the brass screw and
} > white wire (neutral) to the other screw, replace fixture, turn on
} > breaker, turn on light.
} >
} > The neutral is the side of your service that's grounded at the panel.
}
By which you mean attached to metal, or is it actually earthed there?
}
} Careful; this is an international medium, and national wiring codes
} vary considerably (even between Canada and USA, I suspect.)
} *My* brown and blue wires both go to brass screws and the blue one
} is only grounded at the substation. Except when they are red and black ;-)
Brown and blue? Must be tough on color blind electricians.
After the last go-round on this in sci.physics, I was driving around
town looking at where the ground wire was on different parts of our
local distribution system and sorting out which parts had a neutral.
In the U.S. -- if the building was built to what is the current code
in most places -- there should be a ground wire that is earthed (for
our English speakers) at the service entrance while the neutral is
connected to earth at the transformer as well as the substation.
In article <7rt8ni$nqp$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>
jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>
><grin> And I have no idea what the "standard" of the previous
>owner was, but I suspect that he had his own. One of the
>very first things that I did when I moved into this house was
>called an electrician (he was hungry back then) because little
>balls of white fire kept getting spit at me whenever I opened
>the fuse box.
Indeed. It could even be a bad assumption that the wiring in
an old house follows any kind of pattern at all regarding the
color code on wires. May not even have a separate ground at
each outlet. I would assume that either wire could be "hot".
If you have 3-prong outlets, there are testers that will check
if the wiring is correct.
jmfb...@aol.com
j...@ibms48.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr) wrote:
>In article <7rt2qq$abm$4...@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>,
>r...@gmrc.gecm.com (Richard Herring) wrote:
>}
>} In article <7rop23$8...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,
>} Ken Muldrew (kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca) wrote:
>} > wires to new fixture attaching black wire (hot) to the brass screw and
>} > white wire (neutral) to the other screw, replace fixture, turn on
>} > breaker, turn on light.
>} >
>} > The neutral is the side of your service that's grounded at the panel.
>}
>
> By which you mean attached to metal, or is it actually earthed there?
>
>}
>} Careful; this is an international medium, and national wiring codes
>} vary considerably (even between Canada and USA, I suspect.)
>} *My* brown and blue wires both go to brass screws and the blue one
>} is only grounded at the substation. Except when they are red and black
;-)
>
> Brown and blue? Must be tough on color blind electricians.
>
> After the last go-round on this in sci.physics, I was driving around
> town looking at where the ground wire was on different parts of our
> local distribution system and sorting out which parts had a neutral.
Now that must have been a mind-blowing experience.
>
> In the U.S. -- if the building was built to what is the current code
> in most places -- there should be a ground wire that is earthed (for
> our English speakers) at the service entrance while the neutral is
> connected to earth at the transformer as well as the substation.
>
>In article <7rt8ni$nqp$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>
>jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>
>><grin> And I have no idea what the "standard" of the previous
>>owner was, but I suspect that he had his own. One of the
>>very first things that I did when I moved into this house was
>>called an electrician (he was hungry back then) because little
>>balls of white fire kept getting spit at me whenever I opened
>>the fuse box.
>
> Indeed. It could even be a bad assumption that the wiring in
> an old house follows any kind of pattern at all regarding the
> color code on wires. May not even have a separate ground at
> each outlet. I would assume that either wire could be "hot".
>
> If you have 3-prong outlets, there are testers that will check
> if the wiring is correct.
>
That was another project that I had another electrician do
(he's disappeared). The project was to replace the two-prong
with the 3-prong. Then I bought a super-duper APC power
backup box to protect the precious bits that I encounter on
this newsgroup. When I plugged that box in, the light
labelled "Electrical wiring fault" lit up. So I carried
the box around to every plug that the guy had changed. 50%
of them lit the light. Somedays, one can't even run in
place.
Stephen Riley
writes
>>
>>>Uggh. Never liked the taste of plastic
>>
>>Talking of which, would you then prefer cocoa-cola in plastic or glass
>>bottles?
>>
>Glass, though with coca-cola it doesn't make that much difference. It
>has a strong enough taste to cover nearly anything else:-) Some
>tastes are more delicate than others. Thus you can drink coffee out
>of a plastic glass, but tea out of plastic tastes bad. Similarly, you
>can drink bourbon out of practically anything, but good cognac only
>out of glass.
I'd always considered things tasted better out of glass than plastic,
but never done the experiment.
>
>>With my fridge I have a plastic container with spigot/tap and it will
>>hold maybe a few litres of a liquid. It'd never been used in the past,
>>but this summer I thought I'd fill it with water so as to mix with
>>concentrate when wanted for a cold drink. When used the taste wasn't
>>pleasant - even though it was just water in there with nothing to go
>>off. Shaking to aerate didn't appear to improve the taste.
>>
>>Question is, is this the plastic giving an unpleasant taste, or is it
>>because it's still water. I didn't get around to doing an experiment
>>(say by using a glass container).
>>
>At least from my experience, it is the plastic and, no matter how many
>times you'll empty and refill the container, you'll still taste it.
>But, try to run a comparison study. Will be interesting to hear the
>results.
Well I just tried it & it was inconclusive. I filled a plastic measuring
beaker with water and put it in the fridge, together with a glass of
water. I also still have the large plastic drinks dispenser that I
mentioned in there containing a couple of litres of water. I left them
in the fridge for a few hours.
I labelled 4 mugs and poured the contents of:
(A) The plastic measuring beaker of water
(B) The container of water that I mentioned in the previous post (water
which is some months old from the plastic drinks container).
(C) The glass of water
(D) Fresh tap water.
So now I've got 4 mugs filled with water from various sources, which I
shuffled, until I losing track of what was where. The tap water (D) was
easy to identify because it was warmer. I did identify water (B) twice -
but not until I started taking gulps rather than sips and it wasn't
instant, or as distinctly identifiable as I'd maybe thought. I didn't
manage to separate (A) from (C). Partly because my random selections
picked mug (A) 3 times and (C) only once and I did get a result wrong.
At this point I've run out of water and don't want anymore :)
So not an easy test, 4 mugs was a bit much, and possibly one taste test
interfering with the next, because of the slight (if any) differences
involved. But I think I could detect the very old water. Perhaps also
drinking from a plastic container would made a difference. I'd wanted to
eliminate this 'cos the texture of the container would be noticeable
when sipping.
So an inconclusive test - and it'd be more enjoyable with beer instead
of water :)
--
Stephen Riley
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
Well, I'm not surprised.
>
>So not an easy test, 4 mugs was a bit much, and possibly one taste test
>interfering with the next, because of the slight (if any) differences
>involved.
You could try the tricks done in wine tasting. Such as:
1) Don't take big gulps. Rather, take a small sip and keep it in
your mouth for a while before swallowing.
2) Eat something neutral ( a piece of white bread is fine) between
one test (or taste:-)) and the next.
But I think I could detect the very old water. Perhaps also
>drinking from a plastic container would made a difference. I'd wanted to
>eliminate this 'cos the texture of the container would be noticeable
>when sipping.
>
>So an inconclusive test - and it'd be more enjoyable with beer instead
>of water :)
>
For sure. Brandy may work even better but with 4 glasses of brandy
the results may end up pretty inconclusive, too:-)
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <FI5u5...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>>In article <7rqk7v$4hm$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>>In article <7ro68s$5a$6...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>>>In article <FI23n...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>>>>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>House cleaning may be neverending but the scope, at any moment, is
>>>>>>well defined. Home repairs are more like: attempt to replace a
>>>>>>leaking gasket on a bathroom faucet, break the thread, buy a new
>>>>>>faucet, find that it doesn't fit the pipe, buy a new pipe, discover
>>>>>>that the sink is cracked and only the dirt (which you cleaned up) was
>>>>>>holding it together, buy a new sink ....
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh, but that stuff happens only if you let a guy do it.
>>>>
>>>>Ohh, a gal will manage just as well. Try it.
>>>
>>>ROTFL. Well, my data sample does consist of 100% male errors :-).
>>
>>Yep, thought so:-)
>
>Yup. But I would like to have a data sample that included females.
>My hypothesis is that I wouldn't have to clean up after them.
You would. Murphy's laws aren't suspended for women.
>However, they're as rare as hen's teeth.
Almost. But they exist. I did build a beamline once, with one of
them.
>
...
>>
>>>It looks like /jac survived :-)
>>>
>>Yep, it missed him. I'm sure he wasn't disappointed.
>
>Yea. I couldn't believe how HUGE that thing was. We started
>getting rain when the reports stated that the hurricane was
>in Maryland. And I got really confused when the news reports
>were talking about landfall in a Carolina and a guy called
>the radio talk show, stated he was in Florida and that the
>eye was due east of him.
>
Yes, these things are big. Quite humbling.
...
>>>
>>>Really? That works?
>>
>>I don't believe it:-) But then, do you know the story about Niels
>>Bohr and the horseshoe.
>
>No, I don't. What is the story of Niels Bohr and the horseshoe?
Well, there was this old European superstition that a horseshoe nailed
to your door frame brings luck. So, the story is that a reporter, visiting
Bohr, noticed a horseshoe nailed to his door frame. This surprised
him so he asked : "Professor Bohr, do you really believe in this old
superstition?". "No, of course not" answered Bohr "but people say
that it works even if you don't believe in it".
Ken Muldrew
>In article <7rt2qq$abm$4...@miranda.gmrc.gecm.com>,
>r...@gmrc.gecm.com (Richard Herring) wrote:
>}
>} In article <7rop23$8...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,
>} Ken Muldrew (kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca) wrote:
>} > wires to new fixture attaching black wire (hot) to the brass screw and
>} > white wire (neutral) to the other screw, replace fixture, turn on
>} > breaker, turn on light.
>} >
>} > The neutral is the side of your service that's grounded at the panel.
>}
> By which you mean attached to metal, or is it actually earthed there?
Attached to the wire that brings a ground connection in from outside.
The point was just that you can't pull your neutral off of any old
plumbing pipe, even though both are connected to ground somewhere.
>}
>} Careful; this is an international medium, and national wiring codes
>} vary considerably (even between Canada and USA, I suspect.)
The NEC and CEC are mostly the same (for ordinary house wiring, at
least) but there are always local codes that have to be considered as
well.
>} *My* brown and blue wires both go to brass screws and the blue one
>} is only grounded at the substation. Except when they are red and black ;-)
> Brown and blue? Must be tough on color blind electricians.
Indeed. I was once in the local quickie-mart when the owner's son was
trying to put a new plug on their slushie machine. He asked me if
there was any difference between the wires. They were clearly red and
blue (standard for 220V in Canada) but he was color blind and could
not tell them apart.
Ken Muldrew
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca
Ken Muldrew
>> differently because you guys have a sense of decoration;
>> there's a secret code that would tell me the ?ground?
>> Nope. That can't be right; that light can't have a ground.
>Black is hot, white is neutral, copper is ground. There's
>also a convention on the light switch. I believe it's
>"black on the brass screw".
If it's just a standard switch, you're only switching one line (e.g.
the hot goes from the light fixture to the switch and then back to the
light) so it doesn't matter where white and black go.
>I've skipped most of this thread, mostly because
>of multi-level quotes of quotes. So I don't know
>what you mean by "that light can't have a ground".
>Exposed metal parts are supposed to be grounded,
The box where the light is mounted should be grounded (but rarely is
in old houses) but many light fixtures do not have ground connections
other than the bolts that fix them to the box.
Ken Muldrew
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca
Ken Muldrew
>In article <7rrddo$c...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,
> kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) wrote:
>>[snip stuff about Robertson screws]
>When I bought the nails for the blue board, the guy tried to charge
>me for a pound rather than 1/2 pound of nails.
That's a lot of nails. You're going to be looking for other projects
soon... ;-)
>I didn't know that handheld screwdrivers existed for those screw
>heads [Robertson]. I had always assumed that this design was exclusive for
>power screwdrivers because the other head designs wouldn't work--
>the screw heads would get stripped often.
Actually, they've been in use in Canada since the 20's; long before
most people had power screwdrivers.
Ken Muldrew
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca
Ken Muldrew
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>}
>} In article <7ropkt$m...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,
>} kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) wrote:
>} I've never heard of them. What's a square drive?
>In article <7rrddo$c...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>
>kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) writes:
>>
[snip]
> They are often used in dry wall installation in the US.
Interesting. Philips are used exclusively up here for drywall. The
trouble with square-drive would be that the driver never torques out
of the slot so you'd tend to break through the paper all the time.
With Philips screws, the problem is that the bit torques out too soon
once the head gets worn down (drywall screws are considerably
hardened).
> Also used
> where the installer does not want the owner to take out the screw
> (like when hanging cabinets).
Heh. Clearly a process subject to escalation.
> I know I ended up having to get a drive
> for a power screwdriver and use a ratchet attachment since non-power
> versions of that kind of screwdriver seem to be rare in the US. Later
> I got a power screw driver. ;-)
I think we've just seen a drive-by tool gloat; by a theoretician, no
less! I'll bet Dirac (obThreadTitle) never had one.
Ken Muldrew
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca
kva...@my-deja.com
ba...@charity.ucr.edu (john baez) wrote:
> In article <7rg96v$184$2...@winter.news.rcn.net>, <jmfb...@aol.com>
wrote:
> >Silence on the internet is not a good indicator of interest, since
> >it is synonomous with no interest. It is the nature of
> >the beast that prompting is required for any dialogue. The
> >experts don't write because I'm sitting here looking
> >interested.
>
> Right. It's also interesting how many people there are
> lurking out there with interesting things to say, who materialize
> only at the precisely right moment. (While others, like me,
> keep blabbing endlessly....) How do you get these people to
> tell you what they know? You can't just say "Hey you lurkers
> out there, what are you up to?" You have to ask the exact right
> question.
>
>
I _know_ that that is precisely why I lurk: most of the time I don't
have anything more cogent to add (than the usual s.p cast of chars).
I'd like to think that that's why others lurk as well...
cheers,
kvah
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
jmfb...@aol.com
Add? Don't you ever question what people say? You understand
everything that's being discussed? You're never curious about
the next step?
jmfb...@aol.com
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>In article <7rt5v0$4u2$3...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>In article <FI5u5...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>>>>>House cleaning may be neverending but the scope, at any moment, is
>>>>>>>well defined. Home repairs are more like: attempt to replace a
>>>>>>>leaking gasket on a bathroom faucet, break the thread, buy a new
>>>>>>>faucet, find that it doesn't fit the pipe, buy a new pipe, discover
>>>>>>>that the sink is cracked and only the dirt (which you cleaned up)
was
>>>>>>>holding it together, buy a new sink ....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Oh, but that stuff happens only if you let a guy do it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ohh, a gal will manage just as well. Try it.
>>>>
>>>>ROTFL. Well, my data sample does consist of 100% male errors :-).
>>>
>>>Yep, thought so:-)
>>
>>Yup. But I would like to have a data sample that included females.
>>My hypothesis is that I wouldn't have to clean up after them.
>
>You would. Murphy's laws aren't suspended for women.
Oh, I never thought that. My hypothesis is that they know
how to close the loop so that the Law becomes repeatable.
Murphy gets bored so easily.
>
>>However, they're as rare as hen's teeth.
>
>Almost. But they exist. I did build a beamline once, with one of
>them.
Well, we've been talking about houses but you work with light.
What kind of beam? :-))
I've just figured out an example for an exercise I'm supposed to
do in that new math book [joyful emoticon dancing the dance
of Snoopy with Woodstock looking on]. Yipee!
>>
> ...
>>>
>>>>It looks like /jac survived :-)
>>>>
>>>Yep, it missed him. I'm sure he wasn't disappointed.
>>
>>Yea. I couldn't believe how HUGE that thing was. We started
>>getting rain when the reports stated that the hurricane was
>>in Maryland. And I got really confused when the news reports
>>were talking about landfall in a Carolina and a guy called
>>the radio talk show, stated he was in Florida and that the
>>eye was due east of him.
>>
>Yes, these things are big. Quite humbling.
And irritating. The weathermen had declared the hurricane gone.
So yesterday we get the wind and the power outages. They have
weather backdoors up here. And to add insult to injury, it
snowed on Mt. Washington (peak in New Hampshire) [very, very
glum emoticon here]. Snow is a four letter word.
<snip>
>>No, I don't. What is the story of Niels Bohr and the horseshoe?
>
>Well, there was this old European superstition that a horseshoe nailed
>to your door frame brings luck. So, the story is that a reporter,
visiting
>Bohr, noticed a horseshoe nailed to his door frame. This surprised
>him so he asked : "Professor Bohr, do you really believe in this old
>superstition?". "No, of course not" answered Bohr "but people say
>that it works even if you don't believe in it".
Yup. Just in case.... :-))))
/BAH
john baez
Ken Muldrew <kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca> wrote:
>ba...@charity.ucr.edu (john baez) wrote:
>>I too once looked at the pictures of all the different nails
>>in the dictionary... I still have no idea what they're all for.
>Well go ahead and ask. There are many people lurking out there with
>interesting things to say, who materialize only at the precisely right
>moment.
Okay: what are they all for?
See - this question won't do it. It's too broad to elicit the
excitement of the expert - sort of like when someone posts to
sci.physics.research and says "Does anyone know anything about
gravity?" To get you to want to answer, I'd need to look at those
pictures again and say "What do you do with a 17-cm twisted thrapnail?"
or something like that - using the actual name of some particular
sort of nail, or at least describing one precisely.
>[I thought it was strange that one person looked at pictures of nails
>in a dictionary; now there are two? Just how common is this?
Looking at the pictures in dictionaries? Why, I'd guess that at
least a dozen people have done it. The world is a large and
wonderful place. :-)
>Don't you people ever go to hardware stores?]
Oh, sure, but not nearly as often as I look at dictionaries, and
usually when I go I'm in a hurry to buy what I need and scram.
I prefer to linger in libraries rather than hardware stores,
because in libraries there aren't big tough-looking guys in
greasy overalls who say "Looking for something?" There's
a kind of macho vibe in hardware stores that makes me nervous,
especially since I don't know what all those millions of screws
and nails and things are for, but I feel like I *should*, so I
feel sort of stupid and threatened. Just like other people get
nervous about math because they don't like it when the teacher
says "What? You don't remember the integral of the arccosecant?!
I'm afraid I'll have to publicly humiliate you!"
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <FI7Mu...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>In article <7rt5v0$4u2$3...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>In article <FI5u5...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>House cleaning may be neverending but the scope, at any moment, is
>>>>>>>>well defined. Home repairs are more like: attempt to replace a
>>>>>>>>leaking gasket on a bathroom faucet, break the thread, buy a new
>>>>>>>>faucet, find that it doesn't fit the pipe, buy a new pipe, discover
>>>>>>>>that the sink is cracked and only the dirt (which you cleaned up)
>was
>>>>>>>>holding it together, buy a new sink ....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Oh, but that stuff happens only if you let a guy do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ohh, a gal will manage just as well. Try it.
>>>>>
>>>>>ROTFL. Well, my data sample does consist of 100% male errors :-).
>>>>
>>>>Yep, thought so:-)
>>>
>>>Yup. But I would like to have a data sample that included females.
>>>My hypothesis is that I wouldn't have to clean up after them.
>>
>>You would. Murphy's laws aren't suspended for women.
>
>Oh, I never thought that. My hypothesis is that they know
>how to close the loop so that the Law becomes repeatable.
>Murphy gets bored so easily.
>
tell a guy to do it, then blame him for the results:-)
>
>>
>>>However, they're as rare as hen's teeth.
>>
>>Almost. But they exist. I did build a beamline once, with one of
>>them.
>
>Well, we've been talking about houses but you work with light.
>What kind of beam? :-))
X-ray beam, powerful enough to drill holes in walls if you're not
careful. Fun stuff.
>I've just figured out an example for an exercise I'm supposed to
>do in that new math book [joyful emoticon dancing the dance
>of Snoopy with Woodstock looking on]. Yipee!
>
Going off on a tangent? Now I'm confused.
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>In article <FI4IB...@midway.uchicago.edu>, <me...@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>In article <7ro68s$5a$6...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>
>>>Yup. I'm aware of those steps. Dad followed them all the
>>>time when I watched him as a kid. However, even if you
>>>follow step 2, it was guaranteed that he would discover
>>>a negation of step 1 exactly [driving time to the supply house
>>>minus 5 minutes] minutes before the end of the day. :-)
>>
>>Of course. You really can't beat Murphy.
>
>Although 24 hour hardware stores go a long way on this one. This is
>possibly the best thing about Home Depot.
>
Ohh yeah, most true. Was I glad when they opened one in my
neighborhood.
Jim Carr
|
| jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
| } I've never heard of them. What's a square drive?
| They are often used in dry wall installation in the US.
In article <7ru2l3$7...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>
kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca (Ken Muldrew) writes:
>
>Interesting. Philips are used exclusively up here for drywall.
My bad.
I was remembering some particularly messy deinstallation work where
the cabinetmakers had used square-drive screws from their regular
work to put up everything else in the area.
Sheet-rock screws do have Phillips heads.
| I know I ended up having to get a drive
| for a power screwdriver and use a ratchet attachment since non-power
| versions of that kind of screwdriver seem to be rare in the US. Later
| I got a power screw driver. ;-)
>I think we've just seen a drive-by tool gloat; by a theoretician, no
>less! I'll bet Dirac (obThreadTitle) never had one.
;-)
After using other people's power tools, the acquisition of the more
labor saving ones becomes inevitable. My dad actually has a mechanical
"power" screwdriver, but cordless electric ones are more compact.
Randy Poe
> Now I need a voltmeter?
There are cheaper substitutes. Little things
with a couple of leads that light up if they are
completing a circuit. Should only cost a couple of
bucks.
Yes, if you're screwing around with household electricity,
you need a way to verify that something is not hot
before you touch it. Unless you like those shocking
sensations.
- Randy
Michael Kagalenko
A great tool for checking whether there's a danger on some wire or metal
box is a small neon bulb. Although, I think that neone bulb w/o large resistor in
series is safe tester only if you are dealing with voltages in 100s range.
jmfb...@aol.com
ba...@charity.ucr.edu (john baez) wrote:
>In article <7rp10f$c...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>,
>Ken Muldrew <kmul...@acs.ucalgary.ca> wrote:
>>ba...@charity.ucr.edu (john baez) wrote:
<snip>
>>Don't you people ever go to hardware stores?]
>
>Oh, sure, but not nearly as often as I look at dictionaries, and
>usually when I go I'm in a hurry to buy what I need and scram.
>I prefer to linger in libraries rather than hardware stores,
>because in libraries there aren't big tough-looking guys in
>greasy overalls who say "Looking for something?" There's
>a kind of macho vibe in hardware stores that makes me nervous,
>especially since I don't know what all those millions of screws
>and nails and things are for, but I feel like I *should*, so I
>feel sort of stupid and threatened.
<snip>
Hardware-challenged people...UNITE! I sure am glad I'm not
the only one....and I know when I'm getting BS in those stores.
jmfb...@aol.com
me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>In article <7rvtpe$col$1...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>>In article <7rt5v0$4u2$3...@winter.news.rcn.net>, jmfb...@aol.com writes:
>>>>In article <FI5u5...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>>>> me...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>House cleaning may be neverending but the scope, at any moment, is
>>>>>>>>>well defined. Home repairs are more like: attempt to replace a
>>>>>>>>>leaking gasket on a bathroom faucet, break the thread, buy a new
>>>>>>>>>faucet, find that it doesn't fit the pipe, buy a new pipe,
discover
>>>>>>>>>that the sink is cracked and only the dirt (which you cleaned up)
>>was
>>>>>>>>>holding it together, buy a new sink ....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Oh, but that stuff happens only if you let a guy do it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ohh, a gal will manage just as well. Try it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>ROTFL. Well, my data sample does consist of 100% male errors :-).
>>>>>
>>>>>Yep, thought so:-)
>>>>
>>>>Yup. But I would like to have a data sample that included females.
>>>>My hypothesis is that I wouldn't have to clean up after them.
>>>
>>>You would. Murphy's laws aren't suspended for women.
>>
>>Oh, I never thought that. My hypothesis is that they know
>>how to close the loop so that the Law becomes repeatable.
>>Murphy gets bored so easily.
>>
>Nah, that's not what thye do. They don't open the loop. Instead they
>tell a guy to do it, then blame him for the results:-)
ROTFLMAO! Isn't that what guys are for? :-)
>>>>However, they're as rare as hen's teeth.
>>>
>>>Almost. But they exist. I did build a beamline once, with one of
>>>them.
>>
>>Well, we've been talking about houses but you work with light.
>>What kind of beam? :-))
>
>X-ray beam, powerful enough to drill holes in walls if you're not
>careful. Fun stuff.
Sounds like it [emoticon backing away slowly so the other emoticon
doesn't get upset]. But isn't that just a tad overkill to make
new window?
TW used to look fondly on our dual-KI system (his favorite) and
say, "You can tell the men from boys by the price of their toys."
It sounds like his toys were at the level of yours :-).
>
>>I've just figured out an example for an exercise I'm supposed to
>>do in that new math book [joyful emoticon dancing the dance
>>of Snoopy with Woodstock looking on]. Yipee!
>>
>Going off on a tangent? Now I'm confused.
Oops, sorry. I did get carried away. I'd just figured out
one answer to an exercise that I was trying to do. Some guy
recommended a math book if one was curious about category
theory. I've read the first five pages and have had this
curious sensation of having my brain turned inside-out.
I've been trying to do the first homework problem. As
I was talking to you, the solution just came flying out
of my screen and whacked me over the head. I get excited
when I find a solution when I'm doing math. It's an old
affliction of mine :-).
jmfb...@aol.com
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote:
>> Now I need a voltmeter?
>
>There are cheaper substitutes. Little things
>with a couple of leads that light up if they are
>completing a circuit. Should only cost a couple of
>bucks.
I've heard that line before :-).
>
>Yes, if you're screwing around with household electricity,
>you need a way to verify that something is not hot
>before you touch it.
That's why I want to hire an electrian. IMO, he's the best
way to verify such things.
> Unless you like those shocking sensations.
Nope. Running into a hot fence was enough.
Lorenz [to_email_see_my_sig] Borsche
>Looking at the pictures in dictionaries? Why, I'd guess that at
>least a dozen people have done it. The world is a large and
>wonderful place. :-)
I always thought it's only a few hours time lag from here to there,
but now it seems you've got spring instead of the autumn we got here
- though a beautiful indian summer it is, I dare say. The world's axis
must have made a quantum leap while I have been looking elsewhere...
--
Lorenz Borsche http://www.borsche.de
eMail? check my site eMil auf meiner homepage
-----------------------------------------------------
All professions are conspiracies against laymen (GBS)
Edward Green
>[I thought it was strange that one person looked at pictures of nails
>in a dictionary; now there are two? Just how common is this? Don't you
>people ever go to hardware stores?]
I too have looked at the pictures of nails in the dictionary. ;)
American Heritage, I think. Full of lots of cool pictures in the
margins which will grab your interest if you leaf through it.
Edward Green
>>Don't you people ever go to hardware stores?]
>
>Oh, sure, but not nearly as often as I look at dictionaries, and
>usually when I go I'm in a hurry to buy what I need and scram.
>I prefer to linger in libraries rather than hardware stores,
>because in libraries there aren't big tough-looking guys in
>greasy overalls who say "Looking for something?" There's
>a kind of macho vibe in hardware stores that makes me nervous,
>especially since I don't know what all those millions of screws
>and nails and things are for, but I feel like I *should*, so I
>feel sort of stupid and threatened. Just like other people get
>nervous about math because they don't like it when the teacher
>says "What? You don't remember the integral of the arccosecant?!
>I'm afraid I'll have to publicly humiliate you!"
Two anecdotes surface from my unconscious under that prompting.
First, there is a specific tool for working on bikes, and don't
remember exactly what I needed it for. And it has two specific,
accepted names; say "grommet delineator" and "side-lug puller". Now, I
_know_ that I asked for it by one of the canonical names, because, I I
had an old one, and that's what it said on the package. So, I didn't
wave may hands, and say "I need a tool that sort of pulls on the
thingie on the side of the crank, you know..." No. I confidently
asked for a side-lug puller. And, a very butch looking female bicycle
mechanic in greasy overalls gave me a withering look, and said "A
what?", and what when I explained exactly what it's function was,
informed me, with a condescending sneer, that I meant a grommet
delineator.
So (searching for cogent aphorism), there are always people searching
for ignorance, even when revealing their own. Hmm, whadayathink?
Second anecdote: When I was younger, so much younger than today-ay; I
never cut my hair, my hair in any way... Ok. I had long hair, hokay?
And I was trying to enjoy a pleasant library style browse among the
parts bins in a surplus store on Canal street, mechanically
fantasizing among the reverse threaded grommets, the fluted pump
sleeves, and the Alnico dog magnets, this fellow, who seemed to be the
owner, was staring at me, and said "let me know when you've had
enough", assuming, no doubt, that browsing without apparent purpose in
his parts bins, my only object could have been shoplifting.
Now, the closing aphorism, generalizing the results of both these
anecdotes: While there is meaning and beauty in the grommet, and
perhaps philosophy among the striated lamp screws, there are also a
concentration of the ignorant, arrogant and suspicious, at least as
high as in many other interesting walks of life, like universities...
Ed