Sagnac Threads United - sci.physics.relativity

Message from discussion Sagnac Threads United

Dr. Henri Wilson

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More options Nov 3 2007, 5:18 pm

Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity

From: HW@....(Dr. Henri Wilson)

Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2007 21:18:14 GMT

Local: Sat, Nov 3 2007 5:18 pm

Subject: Re: Sagnac Threads United

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On Sat, 03 Nov 2007 03:13:49 -0700, Jerry <Cephalobus_alie...@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Nov 1, 3:53 pm, HW@....(Dr. Henri Wilson) wrote:
>> On Thu, 01 Nov 2007 21:11:20 +0100, "Paul B. Andersen"

>> >Didn't you say that according to the BaTh, the only reference
>> >the photons have is the source? So how do they know that they
>> >are supposed to roll in a frame of reference where the source
>> >is moving?

>The answer, to Paul's question, Henri, is that your photons roll
>in the absolute frame of the stationary observer.

This is becoming quite amusing. You two are getting yourselves tied in knots.

The wheels move at c wrt the source and roll in the nonrotating frame of the
centre of the ring at c+v and c-v where v = wR is the peripheral speed of the
ring wrt the nonR ring frame.. Note 'speed' not 'velocity'.

>I have supplied a new animation to illustrate the fact that your
>model implies an absolute frame. Your model violates the POR, and
>predicts effects that should be visible in the MMX as well as
>Sagnac. Scroll down to the bottom of the following page:
>http://mysite.verizon.net/cephalobus_alienus/toothwheel/toothwheel.htm

That's a joke...

>Imagine my animation to represent a small section of a very large
>rotating ring, so that it appears "straight".

Ah! but it isn't straight Jerry...... that's the point.

>> Both rays move at c wrt the source. That is what the animation shows.

>That is what my animation shows as well. At the end of my
>animation, no matter what the source speed, both "photons" have
>moved 225 pixels away from the source (black dot), regardless
>whether one is measuring in the source frame or the stationary
>frame. (lightspeed = 20 pixels/sec)

I think you got the top one right...there appear to be the same number of
wavelengths between the source and the wheel spots ......but the rotating frame
example is nonsense.

As I said to Paul, the SR analysis in the NON-ROTATING frame is identical to
the BaTh analysis in the ROTATING frame.

http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s2-07/2-07.htm

just interchange 'start' and 'stop'.

>> They move at c+v and c-v in the nonrotating frame of the ring.
>> that is what the animation shows.

>That is what my animation shows as well. If you set the source
>speed to 0.4 times the speed of light, then, measuring in the
>stationary frame, the left photon will move 315 pixels, and the
>right photon will move 135 pixels from the emission point. The
>ratio 315/135 = 2.3333 = (1+0.4)/(1-0.4), which exactly matches
>the ratio required by emission theory.

>Both photons roll the precise number of revolutions required by
>your model. The photon circles have a diameter of 26 pixels. If
>you set the source speed to 0.4 times the speed of light, the
>left photon rolls 3.86 revolutions, and the right photon rolls
>1.65 revolutions regardless of whether one is measuring in the
>source frame or the stationary frame.

Crank, the phase of the spot on the wheel represents that of one infinitesimal
element of the ray.
in the rotating frame, the startpoint of every element of a ray MOVES backwards
at v.

>> What could be more simple?

>Exactly. What could be more simple? Your model implies an
>absolute frame, and implies an ability to detect one's motion
>in this absolute frame. In other words, your model is garbage.

I don't know where you get that idea. The only frames involved are the rotating
and nonR frames of the ring and the source. The startpoint of each ray element
is stationary in the non-rotating frame and moving in the rotating frame. It is
certainly NOT absolute.

>Jerry

Einstein wascertainly the world's greatest hoaxer....

Henri Wilson. ASTC,BSc,DSc(T)

www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/index.htm

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