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Message from discussion The Emission Theory of Androcles
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Androcles  
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 More options Sep 13 2009, 7:24 pm
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
From: "Androcles" <Headmas...@Hogwarts.physics_o>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:24:47 +0100
Local: Sun, Sep 13 2009 7:24 pm
Subject: Re: The Emission Theory of Androcles
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"Henry Wilson, DSc" <hw@..> wrote in message
news:thlqa518ssespdbndogd5rbcd84qffp6mt@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 03:30:01 -0400, Jonah Thomas <jethom...@gmail.com>
> wrote:

>>hw@..(Henry Wilson, DSc) wrote:
>>> Jonah Thomas <jethom...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >hw@..(Henry Wilson, DSc) wrote:
>>> >> Jonah Thomas <jethom...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >hw@..(Henry Wilson, DSc) wrote:
>>> >> >> Jonah Thomas <jethom...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> >> There are two rotations, the ring is rotating and the photons are
>>> >> rotating around the ring.

>>> >> Here it is in the nonrotating frame. the distance between the
>>> >emission> and detection points is vt....where t is the travel time
>>> >around the> ring. http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s2-07/2-07.htm

>>> >> If you can't understand that you shouldn't be here.

>>> >I said back what I understood you to say, and you didn't tell me
>>> >whether I got it right.

>>> >The emission point is the point where the first wave we're interested
>>> >in started out. True or false?

>>> You can look at it that way if you like. BUT THE POINT IS STATIONARY
>>> IN THE NONROTATING FRAME.

>>OK. So you can't mark that point on the rotating apparatus. You could,
>>say, put a rock besice the apparatus where the first wave you care about
>>starts.

> Yes. You mark a point on the hypothetical nonrotating ring next to the
> rotating
> apparatus.

Can't do that, grandpa rides the carousel with the kids according to you, so
there is nobody to mark it.

>>> >> Even SR gets that right. It's simple stuff.

>>> >Yes. And still you have ten waves present at a time in each
>>> >direction, and each of them has the same wavelength.

>>> No you don't. You have 10 + vt/L in one and 10-vt/L in the other.

>>Count them as they are produced. At the first wave you make one in each
>>direction. That's one. At the second wave you make one wave in each
>>direction. That's two. Three. Four. Five. ... Ten.

>>Ten in each direction. Number ten is just finishing its creation as
>>number one begins to be destroyed by the detector.

> Let's use inertial's example...only we'll do it properly.

You couldn't pour a glass of ozzie plonk properly. You'd spill it.

> When an element is being emitted from the source/detector, another
> wavecrest is
> being detected at the same location. This latter was emitted prior to the
> currently emitted one. It was NOT emitted from the current source/detector
> position. For the two rays, one traveled a distance 2piR+vt and the other
> 2piR-vt. There is no dispute about this.

Yes there is. vt is a chord, not an arc.
For the two rays, one traveled a distance (2pi+alpha)Rt and the other
(2pi-alpha)Rt, you thick bastard.
If I was paying for a glass of ozzie plonk I'd want full measure.

> Wrap two lengths of rope around a cylinder. One is longer than the other
> to
> represent the two different path lengths mentioned above.

Your cylinders have a flat, like the tyres on the VW campers you sell.

> Now, imagine that the rope doesn't move and one strand is hollow... like a
> helical coil would around the ring between the emission and detection
> points.

> According to the model, each light element moves around the helix at c+v
> one
> way and c-v the other.

Only in grandpa's frame of reference.  Each light element moves at c in
the kid's frame of reference. Idiot.

> They both travel for the same time.. BUT because of
> their different speeds, one spins faster around the coil than the other.

Neither "spins". They both slide through the middle of the imaginary
hollow strand of rope you invented.

> Both
> halves get to the detector at the same instant BUT ONE HAS COMPLETED MORE
> TURNS
> THAN THE OTHER.

Bullshit.
    http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Sagnac/ring.gif
Dumbfuck!

> So the phases are different when they meet.

Bullshit.
  http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Sagnac/CoriSag.gif
They meet in perfect phase.

> This is exactly the model my ring gyro program illustrates....the one
> Jerry
> converted to java.

> www.users.bigpond.com/hewn/rayphases.exe

> I hope this fills in the gaps.

It's fucking hopeless. You don't understand c+v, you don't
understand phase,  you are forever frame jumping, you are
too gutless to run that progam with speed v = 0.010.

>>> The number of wavecrests that pass any stationary point marked on the
>>> nonrotating ring is NOT ten.

>>Yes. But why count the number that pass a stationary point when the
>>detector is moving? Isn't it wavecrests that pass the detector that
>>count?

>>> If you can understand the SR 'explanation' you should be able to
>>> understand the BaTh one too. There is basically very little
>>> difference.

>>The difference I see is that the SR explanation has the speed of light
>>constant in both directions. So their waves are out of phase when they
>>meet.

> Yes, it is basically the old aether model. It requires that the rays
> miraculously move at c+v and c-v wrt the source.

And you don't understand  SR either.

>>Agreed, no doppler shift. To get the phase different you'd have them get
>>out of phase by a constant amount and then they would all arrive at the
>>same speed but one side would be slow consistently by that constant
>>amount. But your moving picture does not show that. It shows them
>>arriving at the same time, every time.

> Ok, I think you will get the picture now from my 'hollow rope' model.

Yeah, I get the picture. Bullshit, like Einstein.

> So where do we go from here? There are no 'hollow ropes' wound around a
> ring
> gyro but this is a model that is theoretically sound and gives the right
> result. What might it tell us about the true nature of light?

>>> >> >That's the part I don't understand, why the number of wavelengths
>>> >is> >different.

>>> >> Because the pathlengths are different. If you didn't keep reverting
>>> >to> the rotating frame you would understand that.

>>> >At this point in my imagination Androcles is saying the pathlengths
>>> >are history. Why do the pathlengths matter?

>>> Androcles is totally confused about Sagnac. He still thinks the
>>> detector is not rotating with the apparatus.

>>His pictures don't show the detector standing still.

>>At this point we agree about most of the facts. The only thing I don't
>>understand is why you say the waves in the different directions are out
>>of phase. You show each wave arriving at the detector at the same time.
>>How are they out of phase?

> Study the above explanation. One element spins faster inside the torus
> than the
> other. (That's equivalent to the doppler shift I have talked about in the
> inertial frame). Even though the two halves travel for the same time, one
> has
> completed more turns than the other when they meet.

> I'm sorry it took me so long to provide a really simple mechanical model
> but it
> has been so obvious to me all along that I couldn't get myself down to
> basics.

You still haven't and you should be fuckin' sorry, you pathetic old fart.
Your rayphases with speed set to 0.010 copied by Jeery is the same as
my
  http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Sagnac/MechModel.gif

 
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