"Mystery Illness" - Radiation Poisoning
BEFEHL IST BEFEHL
news:qds0ivc0sv8dvf9mp...@4ax.com:
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 19:34:14 GMT, §yko D'Mann
> <Nevert...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 22:02:55 -0400, age...@justicemail.com wrote:
>>
>>* On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:20:17 GMT, BEFEHL IST BEFEHL
>>* <spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>>*
>>* >age...@justicemail.com wrote in
>>news:rd9uhvoup24ubh86snmnju67lm5n6ch7s9@ * >4ax.com:
>>* >
>>* >> On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 21:15:29 GMT, BEFEHL IST BEFEHL
>>* >> <spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>>* >>
>>* >>>Mystery illness kills Missouri soldier
>>* >>>Josh Neusche died Saturday; his family waits for answers.
>>* >>
>>* >> Like everything else you post, Jason, you don't know a thing
>>about * >> "radiation poisoning".
>>* >>
>>* >>
>>* >
>>* >Does that mean you give up on your little Pentagon fantasy? ; )
>>*
>>* Nope.
>>*
>>* <snip the loony conspiracy sites>
>>*
>>*
>>*
>>
>>Since when is the BBC considered a loony conspiracy site? LOL Do you
>>ever attempt to read the information presented?
>
> Yep. Maybe you should actually read it too.
>
>>Here is Clyde's back up info again in case you planned on getting
>>informed. I took the liberty of moving the BBC reference to the top to
>>compensate for your short attention span. Agent its for these reasons
>>that nobody wants to play with you anymore. If you want to be taken
>>seriously you have to learn to play well with others. This includes
>>actually reading their documentation before snipping and disputing it.
>>Its only fair.... anything less would be considered juvenile and ill
>>informed.
>
> It's a four year old, unscientific article where the only mention of
> "radiation poisoning" is unsubstantiated claims made by biased people.
> If you or Mellie actually knew what the symptoms of "radiation
> poisoning" actually were, then you would know that. Try a site like:
>
> http://health.yahoo.com/health/centers/bioterrorism/36.html
>
> And BTW, if you have radiation poisoning, you don't get just one or
> two of the symptoms listed. There is no doubt what you have. And the
> fellow in Jason's news article did not exhibit the symptoms of
> radiation poisoning, which, try as you might to claim differently, was
> the point of the original response.
>
>
Guh....
There are two types, sillyhead. Short term exposure to large doses, and
long term exposure to small doses. With differing sets of symptoms.
You should look into it. Not to mention Los Alamos issued a memo on it in
'91.
http://www.tv.cbc.ca/national/pgminfo/du/
Silver Bullet: Depleted Uranium
(1) Depleted uranium is the super weapon of the '90s; used in the Gulf
War and the conflict in Kosovo. But now Canadian troops, soldiers and
peacekeepers alike, may be exposed to depleted uranium with its potential
danger. Now this threat wasn't one raised by a hostile enemy, but by the
arms used by the United States and other NATO allies. They defeated the
toughest armoured vehicles with the use of depleted uranium. It packed a
knockout punch, but what soldiers often didn't know was that depleted
uranium poses a threat to victor as well as vanquished. Dan Bjarnason
reports this cautionary tale. The story producer was Marijka Hurko.
Jerry Wheat went off to war in the Gulf, He drove a Bradley armoured
personnel carrier for the Third armoured Division. Then the war followed
Jerry home to New Mexico.
"I have had real bad joint pain, abdominal problems," Wheat says. "I get
real bad headaches. I went from 220 pounds down to 160 pounds for no
reason, and that's when I started suspecting that it was something
related to the Gulf."
The shadows of that war eight years ago still haunt him. Wheat brought
back more than victory from the front. Awarded a Purple Heart after being
wounded in combat, Wheat came home with pieces of shrapnel embedded in
his body and with mysterious body pains. Jerry Wheat is convinced these
ominous souvenirs from the firing line are connected.
The ground campaign in the Gulf War involved much fighting by armoured
forces. Wheat's unit was in the thick of it, and his vehicle was
accidentally hit twice by fire from his own side. What Wheat did not know
was that the shells that hit him were made from depleted uranium, the
pride of the American arsenal.
"It blew off my helmet and blew me into the front of the vehicle," Wheat
recalls. "I could feel it. I could feel the burning because when the
rounds went through, the aluminum melted. And as it goes in you, just
burns; it cauterizes as it goes in. At that point, I felt the shrapnel
hit me in the back -- hit me in the back of the head. I had second and
third degree burns on the back of my head."
It's the new wonder weapon the Pentagon calls a "silver bullet."
What is depleted uranium? Depleted uranium is still uranium. There are
three types of uranium, U238, U234 and U235. Uranium 234 and 235 are
fissionable material, the kind used in bombs. Depleted uranium is what is
left over when the U234 and U235 is removed. The remaining U238 is still
highly radioactive.
Depleted uranium shell A DU round is made from the leftover U238. The
killing punch comes from the solid depleted uranium metal rod in the
shell. A 120 mm tank round contains about 4000 grams or 10 pounds of
solid DU.
DU shell hits A DU rod is very dense. At high speed, it slices through
tanks like a hot knife through butter. It burns on impact, creating
flying bits and dust that are toxic and radioactive with a half-life of
4.2 billion years.
In the Gulf War, the U.S. fired almost a million DU rounds, leaving a
battlefield littered with 1,400 wrecked radioactive Iraqi tanks, crawled
over by victorious GI's who were breathing in contaminated dust.
Jerry Wheat and the other Gulf vets were never told of the risks of being
exposed to a DU campaign. But after the shooting stopped and back home in
Los Lunas, New Mexico, Wheat -- now out of the army -- grew mystified as
his health deteriorated. Military doctors had no answers.
Then a year after war's end, Wheat got startling evidence from his father
-- a technician at the famous Los Alamos Nuclear Research Centre, who
just out of curiosity tested the shrapnel that came from his son's body
and gear. The shrapnel was radioactive. Today, eight years after the Gulf
War, that shrapnel still lights up a Geiger counter. He also keeps other
pieces.
"This is shrapnel out of my gear. And there was just a couple pieces that
I took out of my body -- a couple small pieces… I kept it since I found
out the vehicle was hit with a DU penetrator, I just kept it so I would
have it. Just kind of proof," Wheat says.
The pieces on the table are not a danger, he says. "But if you actually
got a piece that was depleted uranium and you had inhaled it or swallowed
it or something, then you would have a potential heavy metal problem,"
Wheat says.
Jerry's great fear is that whatever he brought back with him from the
Gulf is now afflicting his family. His older son Joe was hospitalized
with breathing problems the day after Wheat dragged his contaminated gear
into the house. Derrick, his youngest son, who was born after the war,
suffers strange blisters on his hands. His wife suffered a miscarriage.
Jerry himself recently had a tumour removed from his shoulder. He now
worries continually about cancer.
Jerry says the military has never shown any interest in his shrapnel. The
military said Jerry's health problems are due to post traumatic stress.
At the Pentagon, depleted uranium is no mystery weapon. The American
military has been testing it for 40 years, yet no one in the corridors of
power gave much attention to ensuring that American GI's knew how to
handle the new weapons system. Bernard Rostker is the under secretary of
the army, and he admits that over the years, troops were given no proper
training. Rostker himself reported in 1998 that American soldiers in
their thousands had been unnecessarily exposed to DU; this seven years
after the end of the Gulf War, when it was first used.
"We were not diligent in training our troops," Rostker says. "That
doesn't mean that there were any health consequences. These are men who
survived friendly fire incidences and have been traumatized; some had
been burned, some have lost limbs. So they are not without health
problems. But those health problems are not attributable to the heavy
metal toxicity or the radioactivity of depleted uranium."
"So what do you tell the vets who are ailing from something and they feel
it's because of depleted uranium weapons?" reporter Dan Bjarnson asks.
"We, first of all, don't believe that this is people's imagination. We
think people are ill. We have an extensive program trying to understand
what they may have been exposed to on the battlefield. We have published
over 23 reports. Unfortunately, we have not found a smoking gun."
The number of Gulf War vets who were in contact with radioactive tanks or
breathed in contaminated dust could be in the tens of thousands. Yet so
far, only a fraction -- about 200 vets, like Jerry Wheat -- are being
monitored. The Pentagon still insists there is not enough evidence to
link exposure with illness.
Doug Rokke is a thorn in the side of the military today because of what
he learned eight years ago in the Gulf, where he served as lieutenant
with the U.S. Army Preventitive Medicine Command. There he led army teams
that cleaned up contaminated vehicles hit by DU rounds. Now he is
collecting evidence that the Pentagon knew of the health hazards to
himself and other vets all along. He now teaches at Jackson State
University in Alabama.
"It's obvious today that the military did know, but they didn't inform
anybody," Rokke says. "There were two memorandums that came to us in
March of 1991 as we started the cleanup of the contaminated equipment and
the casualties in the Gulf. One memo was known as the Los Alamos
memorandum."
The Los Alamos memo, written by a Lt.Col. M. V. Ziehmn read, in part,
"there has been and continues to be a concern regarding the impact of DU
on the environment. Therefore, if no one makes a case for the
effectiveness of DU on the battlefield, DU rounds may become politically
unacceptable and thus, be deleted from the arsenal. ...Keep this
sensitive issue in mind when after action reports are written."
"The Los Alamos memorandum specifically gave us guidance that said when
we are writing a report, or reporting our findings, make sure -- make
sure that we don't disrupt the future use of depleted uranium
munitions," Rokke says.
Then a second memo, from the Defence Nuclear Agency, arrived about the
same time. It read "Alpha particles (uranium oxide dust) from expended
rounds is a health concern but, Beta particles from fragments and intact
rounds is a serious health threat..."
"The two memos, added together now after eight years of thought and
research and discussions now, in my mind, are very clear. The United
States and the world know about the health and the environmental
consequences of using this munition and they don't care," Rokke says.
We asked Roskter, if there is no DU problem, why these warnings about DU
hazards issued as far back as 1991?
"There has been concern all along with every weapon," Roster says, "We
have done testing on depleted uranium, from the beginning, to determine
whether it is of particular concern."
After the Gulf War, Doug Rokke was assigned to produce a Pentagon
training video to teach soldiers how to handle depleted uranium. It was a
video that was ultimately shelved and never shown to the troops.
"There are four general situations during which depleted uranium may
present hazards to soldiers. One: if the equipment is damaged or
destroyed in combat or in an accident," the video says.
"This is part of the training video that we finished in 1995," Rokke
says. "The important part here, what we learned from our research, is
everybody involved in working with depleted uranium contaminated
equipment must wear respiratory protection and they must have some kind
of coveralls or covering that can protect their clothes. What we learned,
is you can't get this off the clothing."
"In the Gulf, we basically just had dust masks. We were told that the
dust masks and the surgical masks would work and we could wear gloves.
And all we had was the uniforms that we had available."
"And they knew no better; no one had ever hinted to them they were in
peril?" Bjarnason asked.
"And that's criminal," Rokke replies.
The CBC showed that training video to Bernard Rostker at the Pentagon.
"Very interesting film, because you notice something that has been very
confusing to some of the troops. Some of them were in full mop gear --
chemical protective gear and a gas mask. But they show other soldiers who
were in a bandanna. In fact what you really need is a dust respirator and
that's to meet the standards of the EPA. That does not mean anybody who
didn't meet the standards during the Gulf War have levels of depleted
uranium were likely to be impacted permanently."
The Pentagon built a high security, high priced, high tech cocoon at the
Savannah River nuclear facility in Georgia to process radioactive
materials from contaminated equipment. It has special walls and flooring
to prevent any air or dust from escaping into the outside world. It's
known as Building 101.
"If they're going to spend millions and millions of dollars to clean up
the contaminated equipment that's come back from the Gulf, which you have
seen here, then how could they say there is no hazard?" Rokke asks.
"Look at the amount of effort we do to take asbestos out of a building or
lead paint. That doesn't mean that if you walk past a window that has had
lead paint that you're going to immediately get lead paint poisoning,"
Rostker counters.
Doug Rokke's experiences in the Gulf ended eight years ago, but he still
fights his battles with the Pentagon from his home in Jacksonville,
Alabama. He is convinced his health started to slip away because of his
work among contaminated vehicles over there in the deserts of Iraq and
Kuwait.
"The problems that I have are breathing problems. My lungs have scar
tissue in them. When I run or exercise, there are secretions -- fluids
just fill up in the lungs. I don't have the fine motor control to do all
the fine things that I used to be able to do because the nerves don't
work like they should. Eye problems, vision problems, kidney problems,"
Rokke says.
Rokke has one important ally in his fight with the Pentagon. He is Dr.
Jack Zerimba, head of the Gulf War Clinic at a U.S. Veteran's affairs
clinic in Birmingham, Alabama.
He studied Rokke's breathing problems and the scar tissue on his lungs
and says, "That is consistent with uranium exposure and other things too,
such as metal exposure."
This official affirmation of a link is for Doug Rokke, his biggest
victory in eight years.
In Washington, the Gulf War vets have enlisted the attention of many
politicians. Wisconsin Democrat Senator Russ Finegold pressed for and got
an investigation by the high powered and independent General Accounting
Office, the investigative arm of Congress.
"The evidence is contradictory with regard to the connection between
depleted uranium and the many soldiers from the Gulf War who are
complaining of ill effects," Finegold says. "Some reports indicate a real
problem here; others question it. I think we need an independent
investigation to determine whether this is really true. We have been
through this before with many years of denial with regard to Agent Orange
and its use in Vietnam. I don't want to see our government in any way, in
fact or in perception, stonewall this issue of the health effects of
depleted uranium.
In the latest chapter of this revolutionary new weapons system, DU
ammunition was fired in this spring's NATO war in Yugoslavia. As usage
becomes more frequent, for Finegold, the need for answers becomes more
urgent.
"Keep in mind that depleted uranium was used recently in Kosovo and may
well have effected people there as well," Finegold says, "This is not
just old news. It is real current news for those who are ill from the
Gulf War. And we may be finding other people, from the Kosovo conflict,
who will experience similar problems in the future because of depleted
uranium."
So whatchu sayin'?
--
Can I borrow a feeling?
http://www.mp3.com/gortician
Bass for your anus:
http://www.mp3.com/manticore
http://www.mp3.com/meterversusyard
http://www.mp3.com/highc
http://www.mp3.com/measurerecs.
"[The artwork of Andrew Penland] is REAL...what I mean by "real" is that
it made NEW THOUGHTS occur in my head, which would have never otherwise
occurred." --Full Force Frank
age...@justicemail.com
<spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>There are two types, sillyhead. Short term exposure to large doses, and
>long term exposure to small doses. With differing sets of symptoms.
And Spc. Neusche had neither.
>You should look into it. Not to mention Los Alamos issued a memo on it in
>'91.
And what is one to get from the Los Alamos memo that is pertinent to
whether Neusche had radiation poisoning?
BEFEHL IST BEFEHL
news:o7h3iv07508nb095f...@4ax.com:
What do you think is wrong with him?
age...@justicemail.com
<spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>>>There are two types, sillyhead. Short term exposure to large doses,
>>>and long term exposure to small doses. With differing sets of
>>>symptoms.
>>
>> And Spc. Neusche had neither.
>>
>>>You should look into it. Not to mention Los Alamos issued a memo on it
>>>in '91.
>>
>> And what is one to get from the Los Alamos memo that is pertinent to
>> whether Neusche had radiation poisoning?
>
>What do you think is wrong with him?
It isn't radiation poisoning.
BEFEHL IST BEFEHL
4ax.com:
You have no idea what it is. Unsurprising.
It's no skin off my ass. I hope all of the military get cancers from Iraq
and Afghanistan.
Kegwasher
> age...@justicemail.com wrote in news:tbs5iv4ffk9eq4852jb281lg67n8f4jrvl@
> 4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:31:49 GMT, BEFEHL IST BEFEHL
>> <spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>>
>>>>>There are two types, sillyhead. Short term exposure to large doses,
>>>>>and long term exposure to small doses. With differing sets of
>>>>>symptoms.
>>>>
>>>> And Spc. Neusche had neither.
>>>>
>>>>>You should look into it. Not to mention Los Alamos issued a memo on
> it
>>>>>in '91.
>>>>
>>>> And what is one to get from the Los Alamos memo that is pertinent to
>>>> whether Neusche had radiation poisoning?
>>>
>>>What do you think is wrong with him?
>>
>> It isn't radiation poisoning.
>>
>>
>
> You have no idea what it is. Unsurprising.
>
> It's no skin off my ass. I hope all of the military get cancers from Iraq
> and Afghanistan.
>
>
>
I can see wishing on a few uninspired leaders but why the grunts on the
ground? I bet if asked over a cold on 9 of 10 would rather be any where
else doing any thing else.
I bet we are all at higher risk since our belongings and our persons are
being nuked (x-rayed) more and more often in order to gain admission to
various places that used to be without security.
Brave New Worm
news:bg02r3$9t9$01$1...@news.t-online.com:
> BEFEHL IST BEFEHL wrote:
>
>> age...@justicemail.com wrote in
>> news:tbs5iv4ffk9eq4852jb281lg67n8f4jrvl@ 4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 00:31:49 GMT, BEFEHL IST BEFEHL
>>> <spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>There are two types, sillyhead. Short term exposure to large
>>>>>>doses, and long term exposure to small doses. With differing sets
>>>>>>of symptoms.
>>>>>
>>>>> And Spc. Neusche had neither.
>>>>>
>>>>>>You should look into it. Not to mention Los Alamos issued a memo
>>>>>>on
>> it
>>>>>>in '91.
>>>>>
>>>>> And what is one to get from the Los Alamos memo that is pertinent
>>>>> to whether Neusche had radiation poisoning?
>>>>
>>>>What do you think is wrong with him?
>>>
>>> It isn't radiation poisoning.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You have no idea what it is. Unsurprising.
>>
>> It's no skin off my ass. I hope all of the military get cancers from
>> Iraq and Afghanistan.
>>
>>
>>
> I can see wishing on a few uninspired leaders but why the grunts on
> the ground? I bet if asked over a cold on 9 of 10 would rather be any
> where else doing any thing else.
>
Those idiots made their choice. Die slow, fuckers.
> I bet we are all at higher risk since our belongings and our persons
> are being nuked (x-rayed) more and more often in order to gain
> admission to various places that used to be without security.
Like the new 3D Xrays? I'll never fly again, rest assured. That sort of
thing is for sheep. You're already smoking radioactive tobacco and
probably eating radioactive vegetables, anyway.
God Bless Amerika!
age...@justicemail.com
<spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>>>What do you think is wrong with him?
>>
>> It isn't radiation poisoning.
>
>You have no idea what it is. Unsurprising.
Like you do? The only thing that is obvious is that it WASN'T
radiation poisoning as you initially "postulated".
age...@justicemail.com
<spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>Like the new 3D Xrays? I'll never fly again, rest assured.
That's good. It'll keep you closer to home.....
Brave New Worm
4ax.com:
Tell us how you know this.
Aren't skin rashes one symptom?
Brave New Worm
4ax.com:
Are you scared of me, sissy?
age...@justicemail.com
<spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>age...@justicemail.com wrote in news:fcm8ivo8vsp8j8dre0pnlfdars1ka1jkan@
>4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 22:28:10 GMT, BEFEHL IST BEFEHL
>> <spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>>
>>>>>What do you think is wrong with him?
>>>>
>>>> It isn't radiation poisoning.
>>>
>>>You have no idea what it is. Unsurprising.
>>
>> Like you do? The only thing that is obvious is that it WASN'T
>> radiation poisoning as you initially "postulated".
>
>Tell us how you know this.
He didn't exhibit the known symptoms.
>Aren't skin rashes one symptom?
Nope. But then the story you posted didn't mention skin rashes, now
did it?
Symptoms
* Nausea and vomiting
* Diarrhea
* Skin burns (redness, blistering)
* Weakness, fatigue, exhaustion, fainting
* Dehydration
* Inflammation of areas (redness, tenderness, swelling, bleeding)
* Hair loss
* Ulceration of the oral mucosa
* Ulceration of the esophagus and the remainder of the
gastrointestinal system
* Vomiting blood
* Bloody stool
* Bleeding from the nose, mouth, gums, and rectum
* Bruising
* Sloughing of skin
* Open sores on the skin
Nope, no "skin rashes" there. And the symptoms mentioned in your
article:
fluid in his lungs
liver, kidneys and muscles started to break down (whatever that means)
low potassium levels
Comparing the two lists, how would any rational person conclude that
Spc. Neusche was suffering from radiation posioning?
Now, if you do a search on low potassium levels, you can find that
such an event can be connected to a loss of body fluid. In Iraq, the
temperatures have been quite high and our troops wear full body armor.
Their body heat loads are quite high. Without sufficient hydration,
this is a recipe for heat stroke. Heat+loss of fluid+loss of
potassium can equal death....
age...@justicemail.com
<spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>age...@justicemail.com wrote in news:4hm8ivgmogubb06lo66cqcuetidmbghb65@
>4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:46:22 GMT, Brave New Worm
>> <spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Like the new 3D Xrays? I'll never fly again, rest assured.
>>
>> That's good. It'll keep you closer to home.....
>
>Are you scared of me, sissy?
ROTFLMAO......
Brave New Worm
4ax.com:
Let's just ignore the many, many references that *do* include skin
rashes, M'kay? And just post this one list from who knows where.
> And the symptoms mentioned in your
> article:
>
> fluid in his lungs
> liver, kidneys and muscles started to break down (whatever that means)
Yes. Probably not important...
> low potassium levels
>
> Comparing the two lists, how would any rational person conclude that
> Spc. Neusche was suffering from radiation posioning?
>
> Now, if you do a search on low potassium levels, you can find that
> such an event can be connected to a loss of body fluid.
Potassium - Controlled very carefully by the kidneys, potassium is an
electrolyte found primarily inside cells. Its role is to maintain water
balance inside the cells and to help in the transmission of nerve
impulses. It is very important for the proper functioning of the nerves
and muscles, particularly the heart. Any value outside the expected
range, high or low, requires immediate medical evaluation. This is
especially important if you are taking a diuretic (water pill) or heart
pill (Digitalis, Lanoxin, etc.) A low potassium level can cause muscle
weakness and heart problems. A high potassium level can be found in
kidney disease or in over ingestion of potassium supplements. Potassium
levels should be between 3.6 and 5.1 mmol/L.
It seems like his low potassium levels are related to his organ failure.
> In Iraq, the
> temperatures have been quite high and our troops wear full body armor.
> Their body heat loads are quite high. Without sufficient hydration,
> this is a recipe for heat stroke. Heat+loss of fluid+loss of
> potassium can equal death....
Oh, so he died of simple heat stroke. ; )
Mystery illness solved, I guess. Too bad he died at home, and not in
Iraq.
Brave New Worm
4ax.com:
> On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 23:17:30 GMT, Brave New Worm
> <spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>
>>age...@justicemail.com wrote in
news:4hm8ivgmogubb06lo66cqcuetidmbghb65@
>>4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 14:46:22 GMT, Brave New Worm
>>> <spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Like the new 3D Xrays? I'll never fly again, rest assured.
>>>
>>> That's good. It'll keep you closer to home.....
>>
>>Are you scared of me, sissy?
>
> ROTFLMAO......
It is from home that I do the most damage, Max. Like keeping you jumping
like a monkey on a stick.
age...@justicemail.com
<spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
Name one. Be sure that it's for RADIATION POISONING.
>Mystery illness solved, I guess. Too bad he died at home, and not in
>Iraq.
He died in Germany, having been flown there after collapsing in
Baghdad. You can't even keep your story straight.
age...@justicemail.com
<spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>It is from home that I do the most damage, Max. Like keeping you jumping
>like a monkey on a stick.
And when one quits, you declare victory. Nice scam.
Bolo The Stinky Clown
4ax.com:
When a coward runs away, because he can no longer maintain his lies, I
laugh. Andy was a damn sight smarter than you, because he knew when he
was defeated.
Bolo The Stinky Clown
4ax.com:
Searched the web for "radiation poisoning" rash. Results 1 - 10 of
about 5,740
I think you have 5,740 web pages to refute, Max. Get busy. And don't take
your usual bitch way out, please.
By the way, an article below says nothing is going to be ruled out. So
how have you ruled out radiation already?
; )
Section 16 Table of Contents - POISONS
... Mercury Poisoning; Nickel Poisoning; Radiation Poisoning; Guillain-
Barré
Syndrome; Drug Rash. —Also see "Rash": Toxemia. ADDICTIONS ...
www.pathlights.com/nr_encyclopedia/tocsec16.htm - 7k - Cached - Similar
pages
Section 16 - Poisons - Part 5
... rash. This rash will appear everywhere in your body when you are
wearing
metal of any kind. The ... help. RADIATION POISONING. SYMPTOMS ...
www.pathlights.com/nr_encyclopedia/16pois05.htm - 40k - Cached - Similar
pages
HoustonChronicle.com - Radiation poisoning haunts Iraqi village
... from open sewers, Hassan Aouda Saffah is recovering from a rash that
left ... is worried
that the residents may be suffering from radiation poisoning since
several ...
www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/iraq/1920171 - 34k - Cached -
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Village Battles Illnesses from Nuclear Waste
... residents who had been exposed to it complained of symptoms
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... Radiation Poisoning, Are You At Risk? ... has been often used to
describe unexplained
illnesses often characterized by fatigue, joint pain, skin rash, memory
loss ...
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... cystitis Radiation enteritis Radiation enteropathy Radiation
poisoning Radiation
sickness ... with pulmonary hemorrhage Rare hemoglobinopathy Rash - child
under 2 ...
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... streaked diarrhea and bloody noses can be a symptom of radiation
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breaks ... came to Al-Mada'in Hospital with a bloody nose and rash after
washing ...
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0306230201jun23,0,7812482.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-utl - 27k -
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061103medicalwatch,0,5652510.story?coll=wgntv-evening-news-2 - 17k -
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>>Mystery illness solved, I guess. Too bad he died at home, and not in
>>Iraq.
>
> He died in Germany, having been flown there after collapsing in
> Baghdad. You can't even keep your story straight.
>
>
My mistake, Max.
Have you ever admitted to making a mistake?
; )
FreeRepublic.com "A Conservative News Forum"
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Mystery Illness Kills Missouri Soldier
Missouri News-Leader ^ | 7/16/03 | Eric Eckert
Posted on 07/26/2003 10:22 AM PDT by SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
Mystery illness kills Missouri soldier
Josh Neusche died Saturday; his family waits for answers.
By Eric Eckert
News-Leader Staff
July 16, 2003
Montreal, Mo. — Seventeen-year-old Jacob Neusche spent Tuesday
morning packing up his big brother's belongings — books, a high
school letterman's jacket and a Class A uniform. "That's what Josh will
be buried in," the teenager said, referring to the uniform.
Missouri National Guard Spc. Josh Neusche, 20, died Saturday at the
Homburg Hospital in Germany from a mysterious illness. A member of the
203rd Engineer Battalion, he is the only Missouri National Guardsman on
the Department of Defense's casualty list.
Family and friends are awaiting the soldier's body, scheduled to arrive
Thursday in the United States.
They are also waiting for autopsy results, and his parents, Mark and
Cindy Neusche, are calling for an investigation.
"He's always been healthy," Mark Neusche said. "Hell, he's a cross-
country runner. There's no reason for a boy of his health to deteriorate
so quickly."
Cindy Neusche said her son collapsed July 2 while in Baghdad and was
transported to Germany. Doctors there told the family they believed Josh
suffered from pneumonia due to fluid that had collected on his lungs. But
then his liver, kidneys and muscles started to break down, his mother
said.
"They were doing some things there, trying to get his kidneys flushed
out," she said through tears. "They told us his potassium levels came up
so far and he needed to go on dialysis."
The Neusches traveled to Germany Friday to be with their son. When they
arrived, they found him in a drug-induced coma. The grief-stricken couple
weren't able to talk with their boy, but they believe he knew they were
there.
"In our hearts, we felt he heard us," said Cindy Neusche. "You could tell
by the machines he was on. His heart rate got faster when we talked to
him."
Josh Neusche died the next day.
Doctors and family members are still befuddled by the strange illness.
There's got to be an explanation, Mark Neusche said. He prays the
hospital's autopsy will reveal the cause.
"I know the doctor over in Germany said he got into some type of toxin,"
Mark Neusche said. "Several soldiers were in similar conditions while we
were there."
So far there has been no hint of an official inquiry.
"That's not under investigation," said U.S. Army Spokesman, Lt. Col. Jeff
Keane, from Virginia.
"To my knowledge, we've not been asked to do that (investigate)," added
Whitney Frost, a spokeswoman for U.S. Rep. Ike Skelton.
Meanwhile, friends and family have been reminiscing about their loved
one.
"I lost the person I looked up to the most," Jacob Neusche said of his
brother. "I guess now the role I'll have to step into is caring for my
mother and dad. My brother always did that."
Friends remembered how Josh loved to play his trombone, his reign as
Camdenton High School's 2002 prom king and his penchant for mathematics.
"He was a tutor for little kids," said friend Danny Pacholski. "The guy
was a genius at math. ... It's really heartbreaking that this happened.
We were always supposed to grow up with each other."
Josh's high school sweetheart, Krissy Lewis, said he lived his 20 years
to the fullest. The couple broke up after high school, but stayed close
friends.
"He was the most outgoing person I'd ever met," Lewis said, adding that
friends have been consoling each other since they learned of the death.
"One moment, I'm OK and then it hits me that I've lost the first love of
my life."
Josh joined the National Guard in high school. When he was activated in
March, the young man was enrolled at Southwest Missouri State University
as a freshman.
He was taking general-education courses and had been dating fellow
student Layne Clark for eight months. Clark, 19, said she and Josh talked
many times about getting married.
"We met at college through a friend of ours," Clark said Tuesday. "We
loved to go dancing. We saw a lot of movies and we enjoyed just being
together — doing nothing."
Clark said the young soldier believed in his mission.
"He was so proud to serve his country. He thought this was the right
thing to do and he wanted to do it. He was the most courageous man I'd
ever known."
On Sunday — the day after learning of Josh's death — Clark
received a two-page letter from her boyfriend; it was postmarked June 30.
"He just told me that everything was going all right and he'd be home
soon."
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TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current
Events; US: Missouri
KEYWORDS: ARDS; ATYPICALPNEUMONIA; ILLNESS; IRAQ; JOSHNEUSCHE; MYSTERY;
MYSTERYILLNESS; NG; PNEUMONIA; SOLDIER; TOXIN
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Has anyone heard any follow up on this?
1 posted on 07/26/2003 10:22 AM PDT by SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
Verrry strange....
2 posted on 07/26/2003 10:26 AM PDT by Humidston (Do not remove this tag
under penalty of law)
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To: Humidston
and it's bringing out the goofy ones...
Found this one at Arabia.com:
US soldiers deployed around Baghdad airport started showing symptoms of
mysterious fever, itching, scars and dark brown spots on the skin, the
source, who refused to be named, said in statements published Thursday,
July 17, by the Saudi Al-Watan newspaper.
He asserted that three soldiers who suffered these symptoms did not
respond to medical treatment in Iraqi hospitals and were flown to
Washington for medication...
US officials did not come up with an explanation for the symptoms, which
NATO experts tend to believe result from direct exposure to powerful
nuclear radiations of the sophisticated B-2 bombs used in the war on
Iraq, particularly in striking Iraqi Republican Guards forces who
deployed to defend the vicinity of Baghdad airport.
DAMN!!! We nuked 'em and I didn't even know it!
3 posted on 07/26/2003 10:29 AM PDT by SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch ("If you
don't read the paper, you are uninformed. If you do read the paper, you
are misinformed."...)
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
"I know the doctor over in Germany said he got into some type of toxin,"
Mark Neusche said. "Several soldiers were in similar conditions while we
were there."
It couldn't be WMD's. Saddam doesn't have any.(sarcasm)
Wonder what it could be?
4 posted on 07/26/2003 10:34 AM PDT by auggy
(http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-DownhomeKY /// Check out My USA Photo
album & Fat Files)
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To: Humidston
Seems he wasn't the only one. Just curious if there are any other
publications talking about this. The original article was the 16th.,
here's today's follow-up...
July 26, 2003
Experts to investigate Ozarks soldier's death
Family hopes answers will protect other soldiers
By Eric Eckert, Copyright ? 2003
News-Leader Staff
The U.S. government is investigating whether the death of a Missouri
National Guardsman is related to 11 other incidents of severe pneumonia
among soldiers stationed in the Middle East.
The U.S. Army Surgeon General's Office confirmed Friday two teams of
epidemiology experts will investigate the 12 cases, two of which were
fatal. National Guard Spc. Joshua Neusche, 20, of Montreal, Mo., was one
of the two troops who died.
Deploying such teams is rare, said Col. Robert DeFraites, the surgeon
general's senior preventative-medicine physician. "This only happens one
or two times every year."
A two-person team has already been sent to the Landstuhl Regional Medical
Center in Germany, where Neusche was treated before his death on July 12.
An additional six-person team is gearing up to fly to undisclosed areas
of Iraq, where other soldiers began suffering from the illness.
The teams will study everything from the soldiers' medical records and
tissue samples to soil, water and air samples, DeFraites said.
"Nothing's going to be ruled out," DeFraites said. "When you go into one
of these things, you keep an open mind. ... There's enough concern about
these two fatal cases (occurring) in such a short period of time" to
warrant the investigation.
The colonel said they've not yet been able to identify a specific
bacterium or virus that could have caused such severe cases of pneumonia,
but added that 17 soldiers have died from acute respiratory distress
syndrome in the past five years.
"It's not entirely unheard of for this to happen," DeFraites said. It is
uncommon for pneumonia to cause a breakdown in organs other than the
lungs, he said.
Neusche's parents said they were told their son's kidneys, liver and
muscles began to deteriorate after he contracted the illness.
"The problem with Josh's death was they didn't know what they were
fighting," the soldier's father, Mark Neusche, said Friday. "The doctor
said (Josh) got into some type of toxin that began degenerating his
muscles."
Without releasing specific numbers, DeFraites said there has been a
noticeable increase in pneumonia cases among soldiers since the war in
Iraq began.
Under normal circumstances, the colonel said, they expect to see 750
cases worldwide each year among troops.
Considering the number of troops in Iraq, DeFraites said the incidents of
pneumonia are exceeding military expectations — 10-20 cases among
deployed soldiers each month. Most of the patients have served in Kuwait
and Iraq.
Since March 1, the 12 soldiers serving overseas in the Central Command's
Area of Responsibility have fallen ill with pneumonia and had to be
placed on respirators, the doctor said. Two suffered from a serious form
of the illness called pneumococcus pneumonia, but lived.
Many of those soldiers have recovered and are back to work, but questions
still linger as to what actually killed Neusche and another unnamed
soldier, who died June 17.
Searching for answers
Mark and Cynthia Neusche said they will not accept "pneumonia" or
"complications from pneumonia" as the reason for their son's death.
"There has to be more of an explanation than that," his mother said.
"Josh was never sick. He was healthy. He ran cross country and track."
The Neusches said Josh — a heavy-equipment operator with the National
Guard's 203rd Engineer Battalion — fell ill on June 30 after returning to
his camp in Baghdad. He had just completed a mission that started four
days earlier. Fellow soldiers found him unresponsive in his tent.
"Before he went to sleep, he told his friend he was tired and had a sore
throat," Cynthia Neusche said.
Neusche's parents learned of their son's condition on July 2 and flew to
Landstuhl to be with him one day before he died. Doctors there told the
couple their son's organs had stopped functioning and he'd have to be
transferred to a hospital in Hamburg and placed on dialysis. The soldier
was dead by the time he arrived in Hamburg.
Physicians suspected unidentified toxins, Mark Neusche said, and he wants
to know more about those substances. He and his wife are scheduled to
speak with a medical examiner and a representative with the surgeon
general's office Monday at Fort Leonard Wood.
"We're not against the military on this," Cynthia Neusche said. "Josh
would just want us to find out what killed him."
Toxic exposure
DeFraites said preliminary tests show the illness is not passed from
person to person and is not related to severe acute respiratory syndrome,
or SARS.
Aside from bacteria and viruses, he said, pneumonia can also be brought
on by fungus, parasites and noninfectious causes such as exposure to
metal dust.
"We don't think depleted uranium has anything to do with it," the colonel
said, referring to the element some contend led to soldier illness during
the first Gulf War. "There's nothing to suggest depleted uranium would
cause pneumonia in the soldiers we've seen."
DeFraites said the 12 soldiers' vaccination records will be studied, as
will their personal habits.
"No vaccines cause pneumonia as a side effect," he said. "... You look
for clues. Where were they? What are their ages? ... There's probably
more to be gained by looking at their environment, blood, lab findings
and personal habits."
Infectious agents such as anthrax and smallpox will also be investigated,
the doctor said.
Mark Neusche believes his son may have come in contact with some kind of
toxin while digging in the Iraqi sand.
"We know there are chemical weapons over there," Mark Neusche said.
"Maybe something was leaked into the sand."
Keeping soldiers safe
Regarding deployment of the epidemiology teams — a relatively rare
occurrence — DeFraites said units were sent last summer to Fort Bragg in
North Carolina to investigate a series of murders and to Fort Leonard
Wood when the post experienced a meningitis outbreak in early 2002.
The Iraq team will augment medical military personnel already in that
country. It includes an epidemiologist, who will study the patterns of
disease and health in the targeted population; an infectious-disease
specialist, who will diagnose and prescribe treatment for infections; a
microbiologist and laboratory technicians.
The team will stay in Iraq for about a month, DeFraites said.
Stephen Robinson, executive director of the National Gulf War Resource
Center — a veterans advocacy group — said he has been watching this trend
of strange illnesses closely. He said he's encouraged by the military's
latest investigative actions.
"We serve veterans of the last Gulf War, many who have had exposures to
elements that made them ill," Robinson said.
"Our interest in this instance is to make sure we hear the truth and we
don't let events like this get buried and never resolved. We're out there
fighting for these guys who are fighting for us."
In his last letter to his parents, Josh Neusche wrote: "I have millions
of stories to tell and I want to tell you in person."
Mark Neusche said he hopes the investigation will provide safety for
those soldiers remaining in Iraq so they can live to tell their stories.
"If there's anything we can do to keep those other soldiers from dying,
we'll do it," he said. "... Maybe they'll find something and be able to
do something about it."
5 posted on 07/26/2003 10:35 AM PDT by SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch ("If you
don't read the paper, you are uninformed. If you do read the paper, you
are misinformed."...)
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
You know, I had a cousin who was a young woman, she had just gotten
married, she must've been about 32 yrs old, and she just got sick, and
died. I think they said it was some unusual viral thing, I don't
remember. She was only sick for a few days, and before that she had been
perfectly healthy.
My poor aunt has had so much hardship in her life, this just seemed too
much.
6 posted on 07/26/2003 10:35 AM PDT by jocon307
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
Mystery Illness Kills Missouri Soldier
"Mystery" just means the disease that killed this poor soldier
(and whatever afflicts some of the other deployed) is:
1. Something exotic our military doctors can't recognize
AND/OR
2. A disease course that the doctors haven't gotten a full story on, so
it's
a challenge for them to solve
AND/OR
3. A combination of syndromes that makes diagnosis very challenging
AND/OR
4. Represents some sort of diagnostic "perfect storm" combined of 1-3
above,
M.D. ignorance/incompetence, or "the great unknown".
I'm not an M.D., but just say this having lived this long thanks to the
help
of very competent (and I might add compassinate and concerned) M.D.s and
having suffered at the hands of a couple M.D.s who I suspect at least
lost their edge a year or two out of med school/residency.
7 posted on 07/26/2003 10:45 AM PDT by VOA
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To: jocon307
Sad. Guess we never know how close we are to the end. Look at David Bloom
of NBC.
8 posted on 07/26/2003 10:46 AM PDT by SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch ("If you
don't read the paper, you are uninformed. If you do read the paper, you
are misinformed."...)
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To: aristeides; TaxRelief; Fred Mertz; backhoe; blam; Judith Anne; riri;
flutters; Shermy; All
Hmmmm,
Iraqi civilians have stolen drums that contained the old yellowcake from
the 80's.
They are using then for water.
Does anyone know if this soldier was near that area of the old
yellowcake?
What do we do if this GI and the others mentioned are the start of a
massive bio attack ala SARS?
9 posted on 07/26/2003 10:49 AM PDT by Betty Jo
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
Yikes...
Seems to me that new diseases are just coming out of the woodwork...
10 posted on 07/26/2003 10:51 AM PDT by Im Your Huckleberry
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To: VOA
Agreed. I'm not ready to screw on my tin-foil hat...but I am rubbing my
chin and looking thoughtful. So far this has been very low key
considering there have been 2 deaths of young, healthy people.
11 posted on 07/26/2003 10:53 AM PDT by SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch ("If you
don't read the paper, you are uninformed. If you do read the paper, you
are misinformed."...)
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
Bio weapon?
12 posted on 07/26/2003 10:54 AM PDT by Petruchio (<===Looks Sexy in a
flightsuit . . . Looks Silly in a french maid outfit)
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
Yes, it's true. When it is your time, you're going. Before it's your
time, you're not. This is my conclusion after 45 years of observing the
world. For every "pre-mature" death we can find someone who has "cheated
death".
13 posted on 07/26/2003 10:57 AM PDT by jocon307
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
for later read.....
14 posted on 07/26/2003 11:44 AM PDT by rface (Ashland, Missouri -
FReeping polls since 1998)
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
I wonder if it was ethylene glycol poisoning. Might be worth asking his
team-mates if he drank any native hooch. Of course, it doesn't take much
to put some anti-freeze in the unit's gatorade bag, but lots more would
be sick.
/john
15 posted on 07/26/2003 11:48 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (I'm just a cook.)
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To: JRandomFreeper
That would sure shut down the kidneys.
16 posted on 07/26/2003 11:51 AM PDT by SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch ("If you
don't read the paper, you are uninformed. If you do read the paper, you
are misinformed."...)
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
bump
17 posted on 07/26/2003 12:54 PM PDT by Free Vulcan
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To: VOA
"A disease course that the doctors haven't gotten a full story on, so
it's
a challenge for them to solve"
Since this soldier was assigned to an Engineer Battalion, he may have
been involved in grading or other earth moving operations that stirred up
a lot of dust. If so, he may have contracted something similar to Valley
Fever which is sometimes fatal.
18 posted on 07/26/2003 1:03 PM PDT by Ben Hecks
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To: Betty Jo; Badabing Badaboom
The symptoms don't sound like radiation sickness to me. They remind me of
that ship's officer that was initially thought to have anthrax poisoning.
19 posted on 07/26/2003 1:31 PM PDT by aristeides
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
DU?
20 posted on 07/26/2003 1:42 PM PDT by Marianne
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
WARNING OF TOXIC AFTERMATH FROM URANIUM MUNITIONS LINK
excerpts:
"Former Maj. Douglas Rokke, who was director of the Army's depleted
uranium project, . . .
"Myself and my team members started to get sick almost immediately. It
started with respiratory problems, then rashes."
21 posted on 07/26/2003 1:51 PM PDT by Marianne
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To: jocon307
I think they said it was some unusual viral thing,
I would have checked on insurance policies bought right after the
marriage unless she had preexisting conditions of some kind.
22 posted on 07/26/2003 3:23 PM PDT by zip
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To: jocon307
Not withstanding the potential subject discussion of 'predestiny', we are
saddened by the young man's passing. Not the least because he was serving
his nation and people. It leads one to reflect on how much we take for
granted. Life is fleeting in the grand design. Enjoy every moment you
can. Do not let adversity poison your attitudes. Seek out the wonders and
sweetness of our Earthly realm. From the descriptions of this young man,
he knew at 20 what a multitude will never grasp. Live life and be happy.
23 posted on 07/26/2003 3:36 PM PDT by Thumper1960
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To: flutters
Ping.
Do you think people on your SARS ping list may be interested?
Sounds puzzling.
24 posted on 07/26/2003 6:25 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch; RJCogburn; LadyDoc; Doc On The Bay; gas_dr
Doctors there told the family they believed Josh suffered from pneumonia
due to fluid that had collected on his lungs. But then his liver, kidneys
and muscles started to break down, his mother said.
The old infectious disease training is kicking in. There's one infectious
disease that is endemic in third world countries that causes this
constellation of symptoms. Leptospirosis. Serological tests can take
several weeks to confirm.
25 posted on 07/26/2003 6:32 PM PDT by CholeraJoe (White Devils for
Sharpton. We're baaaaad. We're Nationwide)
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To: blam
Pinging for your 2 cents!
Interesting differential overlap. Anthrax is a possibility.
26 posted on 07/26/2003 6:33 PM PDT by Domestic Church (AMDG... Prayers
for the soldiers family and friends)
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To: Domestic Church
"Pinging for your 2 cents! "
Thanks. I read this earlier and didn't know what to say. Still don't. (A
learning thread for me.)
27 posted on 07/26/2003 6:36 PM PDT by blam
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To: Ben Hecks
"... he may have been involved in grading or other earth moving
operations that stirred up a lot of dust."
You probably hit the nail on the head.
28 posted on 07/26/2003 6:37 PM PDT by Domestic Church (AMDG... Prayers
for the soldiers family and friends)
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To: CholeraJoe
"Leptospirosis"
What is that? Is it related to leprosy? Or...cholera? Are you an
infectious diseases expert, hence your name?
Where are the diseases of yesteryear? Sorry, I get silly at 5:30 am, like
clock-work!
29 posted on 07/27/2003 2:42 AM PDT by jocon307
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To: jocon307
Leptospirosis is caused by a bacteria that usually infects wild rodents.
It can be acquired through exposure to contaminated water or rodent
droppings. Not related to leprosy or cholera.
Although infectious diseases are not my specialty, I know quite a bit
about them.
30 posted on 07/27/2003 8:52 AM PDT by CholeraJoe (White Devils for
Sharpton. We're baaaaad. We're Nationwide)
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
They are also waiting for autopsy results
I wouldn't trust an autopsy conducted by the military.
My brother-in-law reported to Ft. Bragg for a new assignment. They gave
him 17 shots in one day when they processed him in.
He came down w/ myocarditis right after that and survived approx. 2
months.
When he died in a civilian hospital, the Army grabbed the body and
shipped it back to Bragg and did their own autopsy so quickly no one had
time to think about it.
I don't know if they had found anything that embarassed them, but I
suspect they were following SOP just in case.
31 posted on 07/27/2003 9:21 AM PDT by putupon (sic semper tyrannis)
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To: CholeraJoe
I've got Little experience with "Third World Diseases;" I Defer to your
"Expertise!"
God Bless this poor soul!
I WISH I could contribute!!
Doc
32 posted on 07/28/2003 7:13 PM PDT by Doc On The Bay
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To: FairOpinion; aristeides; Lessismore; per loin; EternalHope; Judith
Anne; CathyRyan; Dog Gone; ...
Do you think people on your SARS ping list may be interested? Sounds
puzzling.
It sure does. Sorry I didn't get this when it was posted, but I'll ping
them now in case they didn't see it.
33 posted on 07/28/2003 8:34 PM PDT by flutters (God Bless The USA)
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To: flutters
Thanks for the ping. I'm puzzled, too.
34 posted on 07/28/2003 8:43 PM PDT by Judith Anne (O, ICURAQT. ;-D)
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To: flutters
Atypical pneumonia bump...
And condolences to his family and friends.
35 posted on 07/28/2003 9:01 PM PDT by Prince Charles
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To: aristeides; Nita Nupress; The Great Satan; Wallaby
This one sounds like some sort of bio/chem incident. Who knows?
36 posted on 07/28/2003 9:09 PM PDT by Fred Mertz
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To: flutters; genefromjersey
Are you on flutters ping list? did you see this?
37 posted on 07/28/2003 9:14 PM PDT by Calpernia (Runs with
scissors.....)
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To: flutters
Thanks for the ping. Hopefully it's not the beginning of something
bigger.
38 posted on 07/28/2003 9:15 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few
shades of gray.)
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
I am sorry if someone else has posted this BUT ....I have horrible
allergies to mold and I live in Missouri. But living here is my choice. I
grew up in the San Francisco Bay area and did not have any
allergies...NONE !!! When I lived in Seattle...I had allergies to trees,
mold, and just about everything growing !!! It was deadly !!! In the mid-
west you have the choice to avoid your problems....I don't go into
basements...don't page through books that are full of mold. Here if you
have half a brain and allergies you know you have a choice...and if you
decide to dig for gold through that mold....there is a price to pay and
don't whine !!!!
39 posted on 07/28/2003 9:28 PM PDT by MissL (i AM SORRY IF SOMONE ELSE
HAS POSTED THIS ....but !!!!)
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To: All
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0710/p07s02-woiq.html
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/WO0307/S00044.htm
two articles about "radiation" contamination.
Was this GI in or near Tuwaiha ?
40 posted on 07/28/2003 10:26 PM PDT by Betty Jo
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
Ricin ingested via food or water is a possible candidate as well.
41 posted on 07/29/2003 12:58 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Calpernia
Thanks ! No, I'm not on that list, but I do monitor a WHO-related site.
42 posted on 07/29/2003 4:34 AM PDT by genefromjersey (So little time -
so many FLAMES to light !!)
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To: Myrddin
Not likely. Symptoms don't match and the numbers are too low.
Aside from that, the troops guard their food and water very well.
43 posted on 07/29/2003 4:54 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law
against excessive legislation.)
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To: flutters
Thanks for the ping
44 posted on 07/29/2003 6:06 AM PDT by BeforeISleep
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To: All
Tuesdays update. Doesn't appear anything is new...
July 29, 2003
Family still wants to know why soldier died
Long talk with Army official falls short, Neusches say.
Neusche
By Eric Eckert
News-Leader
An hourlong phone call Monday afternoon with the U.S. Army Surgeon
General's Office brought little closure to the parents of fallen soldier
Spc. Joshua Neusche.
Mark and Cynthia Neusche said they spoke with Col. Robert DeFraites, the
office's senior preventive-medicine specialist. Throughout the
conversation, the couple hoped to learn what exactly killed their oldest
boy on July 12.
That answer never came.
"We didn't find out as much as we'd like to," Mark Neusche said after the
teleconference at Fort Leonard Wood. "We learned a lot of stuff is still
pending."
Josh Neusche — a Missouri National Guardsman with the 203rd Engineer
Battalion — died in a German hospital after falling into a coma about 12
days earlier. The casualty report his parents received in the mail Monday
says the 20-year-old college freshman succumbed to complications due to
respiratory failure.
The colonel told the Neusches tissue samples taken from their son's
liver, kidneys and lungs were sent for testing to the pathology lab at
Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C. Mark Neusche said
DeFraites advised it would take several weeks to learn of the test
results.
Spc. Neusche, of Montreal, Mo., was among 12 soldiers in the Middle East
who suffered pneumonia so severe they were placed on respirators,
DeFraites said. All but one were treated at Landstuhl Regional Medical
Center in Germany. Neusche and another unnamed soldier died after
contracting the illness.
DeFraites told the News-Leader last week that two epidemiology teams had
been deployed — one to Landstuhl, the other to undisclosed areas of Iraq
— to study the cause of the pneumonia outbreak, which has afflicted
dozens of troops since March 1.
"I think it's really positive that they're sending the crews," Mark
Neusche said. "I'd like to get results a lot faster than what he told us,
but apparently that's not possible. With them being overseas, it takes
time."
The Neusches said Josh, a heavy-equipment operator, fell ill on June 30
after returning to his camp in Baghdad. He had just completed a mission
that began four days earlier.
Cynthia Neusche said she's learned through firsthand accounts that Josh
was complaining of a sore throat and had trouble breathing after
returning to Baghdad. She said Josh talked with some friends before going
to his tent to write letters — one to his parents, the other to his
girlfriend, Layne Clark.
That same night, Josh apparently left his tent and went to the camp's
medical tent, where he fell into a coma, DeFraites told the Neusches.
The Neusches were told of their son's condition July 2. And after
scrambling to acquire passports — an effort expedited by U.S. Rep. Ike
Skelton's office — the couple flew to Landstuhl to be with Josh one day
before he died.
"I don't see no reason for pneumonia to drop someone as healthy as Josh
was," Mark Neusche said Monday, five days after burying his son.
Doctors in Landstuhl told the Neusches their son's organs had stopped
functioning and he'd have to be transferred to a hospital in Hamburg,
where he would be placed on dialysis. The soldier was dead by the time he
arrived in Hamburg.
DeFraites said pneumonia can be brought on by bacteria and viruses, as
well as fungus, parasites and noninfectious causes. Preliminary tests
show the condition was not communicable, and investigators have ruled out
severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS.
In an earlier interview, DeFraites said the epidemiologist team will look
at the victims' personal histories for smoking and medical ailments.
Cynthia Neusche said DeFraites asked her and her husband about Josh's
habits. "He didn't smoke," she said. "He never had a broken bone. He was
always healthy."
She did say, however, Josh was allergic to poison ivy. "That was about
it."
While they'd like to know more, the Neusches said they're satisfied right
now with the government's initiative.
"I don't see any other way to fight it," Mark Neusche said. "Right at the
moment, I don't think they know anything."
Added his wife: "I know it all takes time. As long as they keep at it,
I'll be satisfied."
45 posted on 07/29/2003 7:15 AM PDT by SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch ("If you
don't read the paper, you are uninformed. If you do read the paper, you
are misinformed."...)
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To: SpeakLittle_ThinkMuch
Thanks for posting.
46 posted on 07/29/2003 7:20 AM PDT by Judith Anne (O, ICURAQT. ;-D)
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age...@justicemail.com
<spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>> Name one. Be sure that it's for RADIATION POISONING.
>>
>
>Searched the web for "radiation poisoning" rash. Results 1 - 10 of
>about 5,740
Brilliant Jason. You've just demonstrated how little you know about
search engines.
>I think you have 5,740 web pages to refute, Max. Get busy. And don't take
>your usual bitch way out, please.
ROTFLMAO.
>By the way, an article below says nothing is going to be ruled out. So
>how have you ruled out radiation already?
Yep. The doctors believe that it was some kind of toxin. That isn't
radiation.
>Section 16 Table of Contents - POISONS
>... Mercury Poisoning; Nickel Poisoning; Radiation Poisoning; Guillain-
>Barré
>Syndrome; Drug Rash. —Also see "Rash": Toxemia. ADDICTIONS ...
>www.pathlights.com/nr_encyclopedia/tocsec16.htm - 7k - Cached - Similar
>pages
Great start, Jason. What does it actually say?
RADIATION POISONING
SYMPTOMS AND DISEASE—Dizziness, mental fatigue, eye fatigue, severe
headache, cataracts, and nausea.
Not a word about a skin rash as a symptom. The site covers a
multitude of poison situations, some of which have a skin rash as a
symptom, but radiation poisoning does not.
>Section 16 - Poisons - Part 5
>... rash. This rash will appear everywhere in your body when you are
>wearing
>metal of any kind. The ... help. RADIATION POISONING. SYMPTOMS ...
>www.pathlights.com/nr_encyclopedia/16pois05.htm - 40k - Cached - Similar
>pages
LIAR. You're connecting two unrelated items on the page.
Your first sentence comes from this quote:
"NICKEL POISONING
SYMPTOMS AND DISEASE—Skin rashes, respiratory illness, and myocardial
infarction. It also interferes with the Kreb's cycle.
WHERE FOUND—Nickel is found in hydrogenated fats and oils and refined
and processed foods,
SOLUTIONS—Read labels and use nothing containing nickel. Avoid nickel
sources and environments.
Do not pierce your ears or wear metal jewelry containing nickel. The
posts placed in pierced ears are nickel, and cause nickel rash. This
rash will appear everywhere in your body when you are wearing metal of
any kind. The cause is the nickel in those ear posts or in the
earrings. "
Totally unrelated to radiation poisoning.
The second part is from the section on radiation poisoning:
"RADIATION POISONING
SYMPTOMS AND DISEASE—Dizziness, mental fatigue, eye fatigue, severe
headache, cataracts, and nausea.
Not a word about skin rash."
>HoustonChronicle.com - Radiation poisoning haunts Iraqi village
>... from open sewers, Hassan Aouda Saffah is recovering from a rash that
>left ... is worried
>that the residents may be suffering from radiation poisoning since
>several ...
>www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/iraq/1920171 - 34k - Cached -
>Similar pages
Yeah, another good one. It says:
"Suhayb is worried that the residents may be suffering from radiation
poisoning since several of the symptoms are consistent with those of
acute radiation syndrome. "
Not all of the symptoms, SEVERAL of the symptoms, Jason.
Obviously no one has to go through the rest since it's easily
demonstrated that you're a liar.
>>>Mystery illness solved, I guess. Too bad he died at home, and not in
>>>Iraq.
>>
>> He died in Germany, having been flown there after collapsing in
>> Baghdad. You can't even keep your story straight.
>>
>My mistake, Max.
>
>Have you ever admitted to making a mistake?
Yep.
<snip>
>"I know the doctor over in Germany said he got into some type of toxin,"
>Mark Neusche said.
<snip>
Now you're depending on emails for "proof"? tsk, tsk...
Enemy Combatant
news:gr8eiv464vr45rief...@4ax.com:
> On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:26:18 GMT, Bolo The Stinky Clown
> <spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>
>
>>> Name one. Be sure that it's for RADIATION POISONING.
>>>
>>
>>Searched the web for "radiation poisoning" rash. Results 1 - 10 of
>>about 5,740
>
> Brilliant Jason. You've just demonstrated how little you know about
> search engines.
>
So none of those nearly 6,000 pages say anything about skin rashes due to
radiation? Are you sure?
>>I think you have 5,740 web pages to refute, Max. Get busy. And don't
>>take your usual bitch way out, please.
>
> ROTFLMAO.
I forgot who I was talking to.
>
>>By the way, an article below says nothing is going to be ruled out. So
>>how have you ruled out radiation already?
>
> Yep. The doctors believe that it was some kind of toxin. That isn't
> radiation.
Got a cite for that new claim?
>>Section 16 Table of Contents - POISONS
>>... Mercury Poisoning; Nickel Poisoning; Radiation Poisoning;
>>Guillain- Barré
>>Syndrome; Drug Rash. —Also see "Rash": Toxemia. ADDICTIONS ...
>>www.pathlights.com/nr_encyclopedia/tocsec16.htm - 7k - Cached -
>>Similar pages
>
> Great start, Jason. What does it actually say?
>
> RADIATION POISONING
>
> SYMPTOMS AND DISEASE—Dizziness, mental fatigue, eye fatigue, severe
> headache, cataracts, and nausea.
>
> Not a word about a skin rash as a symptom. The site covers a
> multitude of poison situations, some of which have a skin rash as a
> symptom, but radiation poisoning does not.
>
>>Section 16 - Poisons - Part 5
>>... rash. This rash will appear everywhere in your body when you are
>>wearing
>>metal of any kind. The ... help. RADIATION POISONING. SYMPTOMS ...
>>www.pathlights.com/nr_encyclopedia/16pois05.htm - 40k - Cached -
>>Similar pages
>
> LIAR. You're connecting two unrelated items on the page.
Shit for brains. It was a cut and paste from Google. Keywords: "Radiation
Poisoning" rash. That was the first page of results. Unadulterated.
I didn't "connect" anything. Fuck, you're thick.
>
> Your first sentence comes from this quote:
>
> "NICKEL POISONING
>
> SYMPTOMS AND DISEASE—Skin rashes, respiratory illness, and myocardial
> infarction. It also interferes with the Kreb's cycle.
>
> WHERE FOUND—Nickel is found in hydrogenated fats and oils and refined
> and processed foods,
>
> SOLUTIONS—Read labels and use nothing containing nickel. Avoid nickel
> sources and environments.
>
> Do not pierce your ears or wear metal jewelry containing nickel. The
> posts placed in pierced ears are nickel, and cause nickel rash. This
> rash will appear everywhere in your body when you are wearing metal of
> any kind. The cause is the nickel in those ear posts or in the
> earrings. "
>
> Totally unrelated to radiation poisoning.
>
> The second part is from the section on radiation poisoning:
>
> "RADIATION POISONING
>
> SYMPTOMS AND DISEASE—Dizziness, mental fatigue, eye fatigue, severe
> headache, cataracts, and nausea.
>
> Not a word about skin rash."
>
You might want to take it up with Google, Max. They are conspiring to lie
to you. ; )
>>HoustonChronicle.com - Radiation poisoning haunts Iraqi village
>>... from open sewers, Hassan Aouda Saffah is recovering from a rash
>>that left ... is worried
>>that the residents may be suffering from radiation poisoning since
>>several ...
>>www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/iraq/1920171 - 34k - Cached
>>- Similar pages
>
> Yeah, another good one. It says:
>
> "Suhayb is worried that the residents may be suffering from radiation
> poisoning since several of the symptoms are consistent with those of
> acute radiation syndrome. "
>
> Not all of the symptoms, SEVERAL of the symptoms, Jason.
>
> Obviously no one has to go through the rest since it's easily
> demonstrated that you're a liar.
>
Oh, obviously. ; )
>>>>Mystery illness solved, I guess. Too bad he died at home, and not in
>>>>Iraq.
>>>
>>> He died in Germany, having been flown there after collapsing in
>>> Baghdad. You can't even keep your story straight.
>>>
>>My mistake, Max.
>>
>>Have you ever admitted to making a mistake?
>
> Yep.
>
When and where was this?
> <snip>
>
>>"I know the doctor over in Germany said he got into some type of
>>toxin," Mark Neusche said.
>
> <snip>
>
> Now you're depending on emails for "proof"? tsk, tsk...
Erm, no, dummy. I cut and pasted a page from Free Republic to repost the
article.
What kind of toxin, Max?
age...@justicemail.com
<spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>When a coward runs away, because he can no longer maintain his lies, I
>laugh. Andy was a damn sight smarter than you, because he knew when he
>was defeated.
He may be smarter than me because he realized how ultimately useless
it is to "debate" a troll. But he wasn't defeated.
fuckhead
<us...@myactiveware.com> wrote in Message id:
<f8mdiv0d5gebvv869...@4ax.com>:
>On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:10:26 GMT, Bolo The Stinky Clown
><spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
>
>>When a coward runs away, because he can no longer maintain his lies, I
>>laugh. Andy was a damn sight smarter than you, because he knew when he
>>was defeated.
>
>You've stunk this group up enough, Bolo. Headers adjusted.
How rude!
Shockwave Rider Clause
Plane Fixer
news:bgpdt...@enews2.newsguy.com:
>
> "Flonkbane" <spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote in message
> news:Xns93CE6EB183163sp...@bedoper.com...
>> "Rhonda Lea Kirk" <rhonda...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
>> news:bgobff $qloc0$1...@ID-181658.news.uni-berlin.de:
>>
>> > Hit1Hard wrote some stuff that would have Willard Van Orman
>> > Quine twirling in his grave:
>> >
>> > <snipped>
>> >
>> > Uh...bad news, pal.
>> >
>> > You'd best go find yourself a professor of philosophy to
>> > review this. You can twist the logical fallacies around and
>> > make them twitch, however, formal logic is going to cut you
>> > off at the knees. "If P, then Q." Get some.
>> >
>> > http://www.wvquine.org/
>> >
>> > rl
>
> <spewing soda>
>
> Oh. My. God.
>
> That proves nothing, other than you're more of a pretentious twit than
> even I've given you credit for being.
>
> Where are _your_ facts? Stuffing them all in a file marked "media
> sources", and trying to buffalo the general readership with links to
> old philosophers still doesn't tell us anything.
>
> I thought you were a big fan of Occam over there? You're being awfully
> obtuse.
>
> mellstrr--Andy? Is that you? ;)
>
Andy in a dress. She should be publicly shamed.