Probably OT: Early steel ships
Andrew Robert Breen
ships lately.
Seems fairly certain the first such (unless there was anything earlier in
French registry) was the Clyde passenger steamer _Windsor Castle_ in 1859:
http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=15192
She was a fairly sheltered-waters craft (Glasgow-Rothesay, summers
only). So far as I can tell, the earliest seagoing steel ship was the
_Queen of the Isles_ of 1860, small but built for year-round service from
Glasgow to the Outer Hebridies (the Minch, in winter, is not to be
scoffed at):
http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=20716
Given that both these ships were built from open-hearth steel (a method
only perfected in 1855 or so..), it all seems remarkably early (but is
well-confirmed). Thing is, /were there earlier steel ships, and
especially seagoing steel ships...?
Anyone know?
--
Andy Breen, not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales
"The internet, that wonderful tool for bringing us into contact
with things that make us wish we could scrub our brains out with
dental floss.." (Charlie Stross)
Keith Willshaw
"Andrew Robert Breen" <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:5i0737x...@news.aber.ac.uk...
> Not naval as such, but been considering (as one does....) early steel
> ships lately.
>
> Seems fairly certain the first such (unless there was anything earlier in
> French registry) was the Clyde passenger steamer _Windsor Castle_ in 1859:
>
> http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=15192
>
> She was a fairly sheltered-waters craft (Glasgow-Rothesay, summers
> only). So far as I can tell, the earliest seagoing steel ship was the
> _Queen of the Isles_ of 1860, small but built for year-round service from
> Glasgow to the Outer Hebridies (the Minch, in winter, is not to be
> scoffed at):
>
> http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=20716
>
> Given that both these ships were built from open-hearth steel (a method
> only perfected in 1855 or so..), it all seems remarkably early (but is
> well-confirmed). Thing is, /were there earlier steel ships, and
> especially seagoing steel ships...?
>
> Anyone know?
>
ISTR that the open hearth system didnt get into volume production until
the 1860's with Bessemer steel being available from about 1853. Prior to
that steel was made in small quantities by the crucible method so would
simply have not been available although a boat made of crucible steel
was reportedly made for Robert Livingstone to use on the Zambesi.
The first steel ship built on Teesside using Bessemer steel was the Little
Lucy
in 1858. She was a coaster IRC.
Keith
dott.Piergiorgio
>> Given that both these ships were built from open-hearth steel (a method
>> only perfected in 1855 or so..), it all seems remarkably early (but is
>> well-confirmed). Thing is, /were there earlier steel ships, and
>> especially seagoing steel ships...?
mh... aside that back then the enterprisers was really so (that is,
risking really & seriously; earlier, in XVIth and XVIIth century
"adventurers companies" was synonym of seafaring enterprises
associations), I can suspect that there was some boat-sized "proof of
concept" at least because sailors and masters back then have surely an
Iowan attitude in Archimedean principles: "ships of *iron* and floating
? please show me this, but surely I refuse your generous hiring
offer... ah, also press ganging is a HM privilege, so don't attempt
this, for your safety, sir, I mean..." (this from a marine master or
officer, a matey's reply surely was much more direct, unrefined and more
violent...)
Best regards from Italy,
Dott. Piergiorgio.
Keith Willshaw
"dott.Piergiorgio" <dott.Pierg...@KAIGUN.fastwebnet.it> wrote in
message news:JYm8n.99516$813....@tornado.fastwebnet.it...
Actually I didn't use any of the text you quote, that was Andrew Breen.
Keith
Joe Osman
<keithnos...@kwillshaw.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> "Andrew Robert Breen" <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote in messagenews:5i0737x...@news.aber.ac.uk...
From Google books
Bessemer process steel ships from 1863: The metallurgy of iron and
steel edited by Sir William Chandler Roberts-Austen, p. 41
http://tinyurl.com/Bessemer-Ships
Early French use of steel in warships:Papers and discussions on steel
for ship-building By United States. Bureau of Naval Personnel p. 118
http://tinyurl.com/rusty-ships
Corrosion problems of early steel ships (especially French):Papers and
discussions on steel for ship-building By United States. Bureau of
Naval Personnel p. 165 (paper by Siemens) http://tinyurl.com/rusty-ships
Failure of Monel Metal/Steel ship: The Popular science monthly, Volume
87, p. 487 http://tinyurl.com/Monel-ship
The first American steel ship wasn't built until 1895, mostly because
British labor costs were about 55% lower than American at the time.
Joe
Andrew Robert Breen
Joe Osman <Joseph...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Jan 28, 3:43�am, "Keith Willshaw"
><keithnos...@kwillshaw.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> "Andrew Robert Breen" <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote in
>messagenews:5i0737x...@news.aber.ac.uk...
>>
>> > Not naval as such, but been considering (as one does....) early steel
>> > ships lately.
>>
>> > Seems fairly certain the first such (unless there was anything earlier in
>> > French registry) was the Clyde passenger steamer _Windsor Castle_ in 1859:
>>
>> >http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=15192
>> > only). So far as I can tell, the earliest seagoing steel ship was the
>> > _Queen of the Isles_ of 1860, small but built for year-round service from
>> > Glasgow to the Outer Hebridies (the Minch, in winter, is not to be
>> > scoffed at):
>>
>> >http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/viewship.asp?id=20716
>>
>> > Given that both these ships were built from open-hearth steel (a method
>> ISTR that the open hearth system didnt get into volume production until
>> the 1860's with Bessemer steel being available from about 1853. Prior to
>> that steel was made in small quantities by the crucible method so would
>> simply have not been available although a boat made of crucible steel
>> was reportedly made for Robert Livingstone to use on the Zambesi.
I'd known vaguely about Livingstone's steel boat, but had rather excluded
it from the debate on the grounds of being, well, small..
_Windsor Castle_ seems to have definitely been open-hearth steel,
something which surprised me. Built within a year of the first open-hearth
plant opening in Scotland, I think. Definitely a "brave" design, too, with
a long an very light (and narrow, and shallow) hull housing very heavy and
powerful machinery amidships. Went to pieces remarkably quickly when
wrecked.
As to _Queen of the Isles_ - she may well have been Bessemer steel
(different builder, so may well have sourced different steel -and I
suspect cost was much more of an issue in her case)..
>> The first steel ship built on Teesside using Bessemer steel was the Little
>> Lucy
>> in 1858. She was a coaster IRC.
To my shame, I'd not known about her. /Intersting/, and probably as much a
seagoing ship as QotI, and bigger to boot...
>
>From Google books
>
>Bessemer process steel ships from 1863: The metallurgy of iron and
>steel edited by Sir William Chandler Roberts-Austen, p. 41
>http://tinyurl.com/Bessemer-Ships
Intersting, but later than the three (four....) we have so far.
>
>Early French use of steel in warships:Papers and discussions on steel
>for ship-building By United States. Bureau of Naval Personnel p. 118
>http://tinyurl.com/rusty-ships
>
>Corrosion problems of early steel ships (especially French):Papers and
>discussions on steel for ship-building By United States. Bureau of
>Naval Personnel p. 165 (paper by Siemens) http://tinyurl.com/rusty-ships
>
Again, so far as I can tell these refer to rather later ships: the move to
steel in warships was slower because of the high variability of early
steels (esp. Bessemer-process steels). Even in merchant shipping, at the
top end, its use didn't really take off until the second half of the
1870s. That's why I find these very early ships so interesting...
--
Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)
Jack Linthicum
> In article <bd3ebe8b-0b93-4177-a8a1-071178f8d...@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Again, so far as I can tell these refer to rather later ships: the move to
> steel in warships was slower because of the high variability of early
> steels (esp. Bessemer-process steels). Even in merchant shipping, at the
> top end, its use didn't really take off until the second half of the
> 1870s. That's why I find these very early ships so interesting...
>
> --
> Andy Breen ~ Not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales, Aberystwyth
> Feng Shui: an ancient oriental art for extracting
> money from the gullible (Martin Sinclair)
U.S. ships didn't go steel until the early 1880s. The ABCD ships and a
freighter SS Alaskan were built by John Roach's Delaware River Iron
Ship Building and Engine Works.