Denver

[dott.Piergiorgio]

I read about the senseless mass-murder in Denver, CO

My condolescences to everyone.

And, for the Divine's sake, news about Dennis ?

The Divine bless America,
dott. Piergiorgio.

[Andrew Chaplin]

"dott.Piergiorgio" <chied...@ask.me> wrote in news:wkaOr.193186
$GZ3....@tornado.fastwebnet.it:

> I read about the senseless mass-murder in Denver, CO

I shake my head in disbelief, but I will not say, "It can't happen here,"
because it has happened in Toronto twice in the recent past--and we have
very restrictive laws in place for the control of handguns!

> My condolescences to everyone.

And also from this quarter.

> And, for the Divine's sake, news about Dennis ?

I think Dennis is unlikely to have been attending a screening at Zero-
Dark-Stupid, so he is probably safe.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[La N.]

"Andrew Chaplin" <ab.ch...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA0965F8BDF3DAH...@88.198.244.100...

> "dott.Piergiorgio" <chied...@ask.me> wrote in news:wkaOr.193186
> $GZ3....@tornado.fastwebnet.it:
>
>> I read about the senseless mass-murder in Denver, CO
>
> I shake my head in disbelief, but I will not say, "It can't happen here,"
> because it has happened in Toronto twice in the recent past--and we have
> very restrictive laws in place for the control of handguns!
>
>> My condolescences to everyone.
>
> And also from this quarter.
>
>> And, for the Divine's sake, news about Dennis ?
>
> I think Dennis is unlikely to have been attending a screening at Zero-
> Dark-Stupid, so he is probably safe.
> --

Plus, I believe Dennis lives in Louisiana..

- nilita

[La N.]

"Andrew Chaplin" <ab.ch...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA0965F8BDF3DAH...@88.198.244.100...

> "dott.Piergiorgio" <chied...@ask.me> wrote in news:wkaOr.193186
> $GZ3....@tornado.fastwebnet.it:
>
>> I read about the senseless mass-murder in Denver, CO
>
> I shake my head in disbelief, but I will not say, "It can't happen here,"
> because it has happened in Toronto twice in the recent past--and we have
> very restrictive laws in place for the control of handguns!
>
>> My condolescences to everyone.
>
> And also from this quarter.
>
>> And, for the Divine's sake, news about Dennis ?
>
> I think Dennis is unlikely to have been attending a screening at Zero-
> Dark-Stupid, so he is probably safe.

Not to mention that Dennis lives in Louisiana.

- nilita

[dott.Piergiorgio]

Il 20/07/2012 16:09, La N. ha scritto:

>
> Plus, I believe Dennis lives in Louisiana..

no, LA is Dennis's birthplace; AFAIK, he lives in northern AZ or CO.....

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

[La N.]

"dott.Piergiorgio" <chied...@ask.me> wrote in message
news:UWdOr.193226$GZ3.1...@tornado.fastwebnet.it...

> Il 20/07/2012 16:09, La N. ha scritto:
>
>>
>> Plus, I believe Dennis lives in Louisiana..
>
> no, LA is Dennis's birthplace; AFAIK, he lives in northern AZ or CO.....
>

Hmmm .... from what I understand, he was born in Kansas and currently lives
in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Regardless, I don't think we have to worry about
him.

- nilita

[Jim Yanik]

Andrew Chaplin <ab.ch...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote in

news:XnsA0965F8BDF3DAH...@88.198.244.100:

> "dott.Piergiorgio" <chied...@ask.me> wrote in news:wkaOr.193186
> $GZ3....@tornado.fastwebnet.it:
>
>> I read about the senseless mass-murder in Denver, CO
>
> I shake my head in disbelief, but I will not say, "It can't happen
> here," because it has happened in Toronto twice in the recent
> past--and we have very restrictive laws in place for the control of
> handguns!

The Denver shooter had both a handgun and an "assault rifle"(semi-auto
version),plus body armor,gas mask.

it -sounds- like a terrorist attack;there was preparation and planning
done.

But we all have to wait until more information is discovered and released
to the public.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

[dott.Piergiorgio]

Il 20/07/2012 17:37, Fred J. McCall ha scritto:

>> The Denver shooter had both a handgun and an "assault rifle"(semi-auto
>> version),plus body armor,gas mask.
>>
>

> There's no such thing as a semi-auto assault rifle. There *are*
> semi-auto 'assault weapons'; a made up category of arms from the
> Clinton years.

why not simply "self-loading rifle" ? that is, as the M1 Garand....

the mess is that "auto" in handgun parlance means both "automatic
loading" (as in the Colt M1911 and Beretta M9) and "automatic firing"
as in the Stoner M16 & M4, Browning .50 M2 &c.)

(and again, IMHO the right of bear arms must be modernized, when
promulgated in the XVIIIth century, the near-totality of firearms around
was muzzle-loaded smoothbore flintlocks...)

[Keith W]

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Andrew Chaplin <ab.ch...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote in
> news:XnsA0965F8BDF3DAH...@88.198.244.100:
>
>> "dott.Piergiorgio" <chied...@ask.me> wrote in news:wkaOr.193186
>> $GZ3....@tornado.fastwebnet.it:
>>
>>> I read about the senseless mass-murder in Denver, CO
>>
>> I shake my head in disbelief, but I will not say, "It can't happen
>> here," because it has happened in Toronto twice in the recent
>> past--and we have very restrictive laws in place for the control of
>> handguns!
>
> The Denver shooter had both a handgun and an "assault rifle"(semi-auto
> version),plus body armor,gas mask.
>
> it -sounds- like a terrorist attack;there was preparation and planning
> done.
>

As there was at Columbine, this seems to be another home grown
nutjob. The shooter was identified as a grad student being kicked
out of university.

> But we all have to wait until more information is discovered and
> released to the public.

Keith

[La N.]

"Keith W" <keithnosp...@demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:nVfOr.32192$ig....@fx24.am4...

> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Andrew Chaplin <ab.ch...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote in
>> news:XnsA0965F8BDF3DAH...@88.198.244.100:
>>
>>> "dott.Piergiorgio" <chied...@ask.me> wrote in news:wkaOr.193186
>>> $GZ3....@tornado.fastwebnet.it:
>>>
>>>> I read about the senseless mass-murder in Denver, CO
>>>
>>> I shake my head in disbelief, but I will not say, "It can't happen
>>> here," because it has happened in Toronto twice in the recent
>>> past--and we have very restrictive laws in place for the control of
>>> handguns!
>>
>> The Denver shooter had both a handgun and an "assault rifle"(semi-auto
>> version),plus body armor,gas mask.
>>
>> it -sounds- like a terrorist attack;there was preparation and planning
>> done.
>>
>
> As there was at Columbine, this seems to be another home grown
> nutjob. The shooter was identified as a grad student being kicked
> out of university.
>

Med Student. Here are some photos:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/20/james-holmes-photos-released_n_1690005.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

- nilita

[Keith W]

A graduate student at the University of Colorado Medical School in fact.

Keith

[dott.Piergiorgio]

Il 20/07/2012 12:23, dott.Piergiorgio ha scritto:

someone can clarify to me the posse comitatus act re. combat engineers ?

from what I understand from the (weighted) news, the culprit's hideout
(I will not call it "house") is heavily booby-trapped, and the local
police alleges that is a really hard work (perhaps more than one day) to
clear the place......

Best regards from Italy, and the Divine bless America,
dott. Piergiorgio.

[Dalesql]

Posse comitatus act was mainly to keep a local sheriff from borrowing
military troops by fair means or foul to pursue an alleged criminal, and
to keep the feds from using the military to stick their paws into state
criminal matters. It was largely gutted by various means in the 80s and
90s under the clinton and reagan regimes. go read chapter and verse on
the legal blogs that care about that stuff for the details.

I suspect that were the local sheriff in question were to request
assistance from the US military for EOD support, that there would not be
any legal issue for that. Once the police have a search warrant for his
residence, the rest of the legal hurdles have been passed. In this
case, the search warrant would be easy.

But, the local police have mutual aid agreements with Denver, and
from the state police, both whom will have EOD resources to bring to
bear. I suspect that every EOD detachment in the state will have people
willing to volunteer to come work the case.

AFAIK, there is no time pressure to get into the guys apartment, so
there is no reason for the EOD folks to rush things. The other
residents of the building are kinda screwed until the place is cleared,
but that shouldn't take more than a few days. If the guy was a really
good boobytrapper, then the place is gonna blow up and burn down anyway,
destroying evidence not really needed, a lot of personal property, and a
bomb robot or three.

--Dale

[jonathan]

"dott.Piergiorgio" <chied...@ask.me> wrote in message

news:BFhOr.193330$GZ3.1...@tornado.fastwebnet.it...

> Il 20/07/2012 12:23, dott.Piergiorgio ha scritto:
>
> someone can clarify to me the posse comitatus act re. combat engineers ?
>
> from what I understand from the (weighted) news, the culprit's hideout (I
> will not call it "house") is heavily booby-trapped, and the local police
> alleges that is a really hard work (perhaps more than one day) to clear
> the place......

The news is saying he had his music in his apartment come on full blast
using a timer just after he left for the theatre. They're speculating
he wanted someone to come in to turn off the music and set off
the bombs while he was at the theatre.

All that planning is going to make it hard for an insanity defense.

[Jim Yanik]

"dott.Piergiorgio" <chied...@ask.me> wrote in
news:89fOr.193260$GZ3.1...@tornado.fastwebnet.it:

semi-auto,magazine-fed rifles such as the AR-15 and AK-47 are today's
modern MILITIA weapons,and thus should be the most protected of firearms
under the Second Amendment.

Militias were expected to appear for muster bearing arms and ammo similar
to and compatible with what the Regular military had in use AT THAT TIME.
Since we "compromised" and restricted ownership of full-auto,true assault
rifles,that leaves the semi-auto versions for civilian militia use.

[Jim Yanik]

"dott.Piergiorgio" <chied...@ask.me> wrote in
news:BFhOr.193330$GZ3.1...@tornado.fastwebnet.it:

AFAIK,the "combat engineers" disarming bombs are not enforcing any laws or
acting as law enforcement.
they're just people who have the necessary skills of disarming
bombs.they're "on loan".
Just like the mechanics who work on police cars are not LEO,and have no
authority as such.

BATFE(better known as "F-Troop") will be the ones filing charges on broken
Federal laws concerning bombs,"destructive devices",arson,etc.

[scott s.]

Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote in
news:XnsA097956DACDEA...@216.168.3.44:

From an army.mil site:

"Questions have been raised about the legality of a military unit
responding within the United States to a civilian incident because of
the Posse Comitatus Act, which limits the participation of the military
in domestic law enforcement. However, EOD's performance of its stateside
missions is legal because the rendering safe of a hazardous item is a
public safety issue that is not related to the enforcement of laws. EOD
technicians are not pursuing bomb makers, nor are they armed or
participating in any law enforcement activities while performing
stateside duties.

"A well-known example of stateside EOD response is the Unabomber
bombings, which occurred from 25 May 1978 to 24 April 1995. The
Unabomber was Ted Kaczynski, and most of his devices were functioned by
victims receiving or finding the items. However, some of the items were
identified as potential explosive devices before they could explode and
authorities responded and disposed of them.

"In 1981, an Army EOD team responded to a device found in Milton Bennion
Hall at the University of Utah. Army EOD support was also requested by
the FBI when Kaczynski's cabin in Montana was located. The responding
EOD team rendered safe and cleared the cabin, which was booby-trapped
and contained numerous devices."

I believe in the US Army EOD is an Ordnance Corps function, not
engineers. The 71st Ordnance Group (EOD) and subordinate 242d Ordnance
Bn (EOD) are at Ft Carson (don't know if any currently deployed).

scott s.
.

[dott.Piergiorgio]

> semi-auto,magazine-fed rifles such as the AR-15 and AK-47 are today's
> modern MILITIA weapons,and thus should be the most protected of firearms
> under the Second Amendment.
>
> Militias were expected to appear for muster bearing arms and ammo similar
> to and compatible with what the Regular military had in use AT THAT TIME.
> Since we "compromised" and restricted ownership of full-auto,true assault
> rifles,that leaves the semi-auto versions for civilian militia use.

well, for sure United States can't follow the Swiss model of militia
defense, and today's warfare is so wild different to that of
Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars...

As the dictum says, the difference between guerrillas/freedom fighter
and governative troops lies in the ammo consumption, self-loading
assault rifles *IS* the ideal weapon for a trained citizen's militia,
whose, in my eyes, today can be effectively fielded only as stay-behind
Resistance.

but how to bring the US constitutional principles citizen militia and
right of bear arms from XVIIIth Century warfare to XXIth century warfare
keeping intact the spirit and letter of of US Constitution ?

[dott.Piergiorgio]

Il 22/07/2012 01:29, scott s. ha scritto:

> I believe in the US Army EOD is an Ordnance Corps function, not
> engineers. The 71st Ordnance Group (EOD) and subordinate 242d Ordnance
> Bn (EOD) are at Ft Carson (don't know if any currently deployed).

Here in Italy (and many EU countries) EOD and IED/mining are handled by
combat engineers ("Genieri" in Italian)...

[Andrew Swallow]

A civilian militia may not be able to fight an invading army equipped
tanks, aircraft and warships. (Although the locals in Iraq and
Afghanistan have had a good try.) What a militia can fight are
terrorists and armed madmen. Newspaper reports of incidents suggest
that there are plenty of terrorists around.

Terrorists come individually or in small groups. They are armed with
knives, hand guns including rifles, rocket propelled grenades and
improvised explosive devices. Their leaders can select targets for
military usefulness such as the Pentagon but appear to prefer ones that
produce the maximum number of newspaper headlines. For transport
terrorists have used civilian aircraft, cars, motorbikes, speed boats,
trucks and armed trucks. The vehicles could have been purchased, stolen
or hijacked.

A small number of trained men - such as the militia - can fight a small
number of men, such as a gang of terrorists.

A group of militia men, being near to the area attacked, can get there
quickly and hopefully secure the area. Against a powerful foe they can
be trained to call in the full military.

A side effect of feminism is that a modern militia will have to
conscript women. Women militia can be trained to search women and their
bedrooms. The IRA for example used its women to sneak weapons passed
all male checkpoints.

Appropriate strategies and tactics for a civilian militia will have to
be devised. Appropriate command, control and communication procedures
needs planning, remembering that the US Constitution says "... reserving
to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the
Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed
by Congress".

A discipline being a book of rules and the enforcement there of,
probably based on the 'Uniform Code of Military Justice'.

I suspect that many states will keep civilian control of the
reinvigorated militia by appointing Country Sheriffs as militia officers.

Andrew Swallow

[Jim Yanik]

Andrew Swallow <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in
news:Gd2dnQVMsICOrZHN...@bt.com:

Keep in mind that in the US,the right to keep and bear arms is NOT
restricted to militias or militia membership. No wording in the 2nd makes
any restriction of the RKBA to militias.
the right is "of the People";individuals,as ruled by SCOTUS.

all the 2nd says about militias,well-regulated or not,is that they are
"necessary to a free state",nothing more.
(the "shall not be infringed" part is pretty clear,however)

Also note that during the 1992 LA riots,when police refused to enter the
riot zone to protect citizens,Korean shopkeepers used "assault weapons"
(Ruger Ranch rifles;.223 cal magazine-fed semi-auto rifles)to fight off the
mobs that came to burn them and their families alive in their
shops/homes.(they lived above the shops)

that's a good argument for 30 round magazines,not that we need any
justification to own them.

[Andrew Swallow]

For once I am not banning guns but mobilising the militia. That is
governed by the original US Constitution.

Andrew Swallow

[Jim Yanik]

Andrew Swallow <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in

news:1bydnUXxkLcWxZHN...@bt.com:

the US does not have any real militias.
the National Guard is merely a reserve component of the Regular military.
some NG units serve full-time!

[Andrew Swallow]

As I suggest above it may be time to create a modern militia. Militias
are not be able to beat modern armies but they may be able to go 2 to 1
against lightly armed terrorist gangs.

Andrew Swallow

[Andrew Swallow]

On 23/07/2012 00:29, Fred J. McCall wrote:
{snip}

>
> What you suggest above is, well, insufficiently imaginative. The idea
> isn't (necessarily) to stand toe to toe with regular heavy formations.
> The idea is to make any occupation untenable.
>

You can train the militia to be an English speaking version of the
French Resistance if you want, but I suspect that it is a waste. Few
countries are physically able to invade the USA and those that can do
not appear to be arming for it. If any try the normal military can
fight them.

There are however countries and groups that want to attack the USA.
They can (and have) put a dozen or so men on a commercial liner or
aircraft. They need dealing with.

Andrew Swallow

[dott.Piergiorgio]

Il 23/07/2012 01:29, Fred J. McCall ha scritto:

>> As I suggest above it may be time to create a modern militia. Militias
>> are not be able to beat modern armies but they may be able to go 2 to 1
>> against lightly armed terrorist gangs.
>>
>

> What you suggest above is, well, insufficiently imaginative. The idea
> isn't (necessarily) to stand toe to toe with regular heavy formations.
> The idea is to make any occupation untenable.

I'm not 100% sure if you replied to me or to Andrew; but Andrew's idea
is definitively interesting; he's suggesting a gendarmerie militia,
whose is worth of a more careful study (OK I'm of a country whose the
Gendarmerie (Carabinieri) *IS* the senior service...) but aside that a
gendarmerie militia can do little against a terror attack (whose core
element is *surprise* ) can be really effective against out-of-control
non-political riots (the LA one is one of the classical examples) but
this put into the picture the third legal framework issue, the posse
comitatus act (a militia *is* military)

but the core framework of the US Const. is modelled from the one formed
on the Seven Hills, whose main check is that if the top of the political
echelon is non-functional, the other echelons can, and must intervene to
remove it (if the Senate isn't functional, the People intervene, if the
Caesar isn't functional, the Senate intervene) and armed militia,
gendarmerie or not, can be both a powerful check & balance and a really
dangerous source of instability....

[Jim Yanik]

Andrew Swallow <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in

news:ArednSCUhYjxHJHN...@bt.com:

well,perhaps the wrong assumption is that the US military would go along
with an usurping,abusive US government.
Or that they would not defect and bring along heavier weaponry to the
rebels,as is happening all around the ME right now.

Plus,it's an extra,costly expense to arm and equip an independent militia
AND the Regular military. Thus the Second Amendment,putting power in the
hands of the People.

[Jim Yanik]

Andrew Swallow <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in

news:qvmdnY4Gu441SpHN...@bt.com:

I could see other countries invading the US if an EMP attack crippled the
US,especially if US citizens are dying from disease and starvation. It
might even come under the guise of "aid";naturally,they would use troops to
keep control over the "aid"....
Troops and their arms can be delivered in "Ro-Ro" or other commercial
shipping,and cargo aircraft,no need to build landing craft.

[dott.Piergiorgio]

Il 23/07/2012 17:55, Jim Yanik ha scritto:

> I could see other countries invading the US if an EMP attack crippled the
> US,especially if US citizens are dying from disease and starvation. It
> might even come under the guise of "aid";naturally,they would use troops to
> keep control over the "aid"....

you're too fantasying....

Even the land of Machiavelli, Borgia and Maramaldo will never think of
this level of backstabbing....

[Andrew Swallow]

EMP = nuclear.
Any one nuking the USA will get nuked back.

Then have a look to see what countries have sufficient R0-Ro and cruise
liners to move an army around.

Andrew Swallow

[Andrew Swallow]

Hmm. Did General Lee use the militia?

State governors can warehouse ammunition and keep lists of logistical
items such as the location of trucking companies and school buses.

Andrew Swallow

[Jim Yanik]

Andrew Swallow <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in

news:CdydncpgPOhDMpDN...@bt.com:

ONLY if they can identify who originated the weapon. If the containership
that launched the EMP missile is scuttled,there's no evidence remaining to
lead to it's origin. The US may not have the nuclear isotope signatures for
an Iranian nuke.
Also,exploding the device outside the atmosphere,that method of ID may not
work. Probably not. certainly,no U-2 can collect the bomb residues.

Plus,I'm not as certain as you that some US presidents would actually order
a nuke strike,especially if there's any chance they could weasel out of it
due to lack of absolute,unquestionable proof.

>
> Then have a look to see what countries have sufficient R0-Ro and
> cruise liners to move an army around.
>
> Andrew Swallow
>

After the EMP blast and it's ensuing disaster,that's not gonna happen.
The military is going to be too busy trying to restore order,feed
citizens,and rebuild the systems.
Plus,the surveillance satellites aren't going to be working anymore,and we
won't be able to launch any replacements,nor MAKE any replacements TO
launch.

[Bill]

On Mon, 23 Jul 2012 20:11:12 -0500, Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov>
wrote:

>ONLY if they can identify who originated the weapon. If the containership
>that launched the EMP missile is scuttled,there's no evidence remaining to
>lead to it's origin. The US may not have the nuclear isotope signatures for
>an Iranian nuke.

I would imagine the Iranian authorities would be told that you open
your reactors for inspection or we'll kill you all.

I can't honestly see anyone objecting any more than anyone objected to
Afghanistan being invaded after they'd hit the twin towers.

[Fred J. McChicken]

Fred J. McCall wrote:
> John Smith wrote:
>> Fred J. McCall boasted:
>>>
>>> I'm no coward, anybody can verify I use my real name.
>>
>> Please post your address so we can verify.
>
> cackle cackle cluck cluck cluck

translation: no I won't post my address, I'm a chicken, afraid of you-know-who
;-)

[Keith W]

Lets get real here. In 1974 The USA was able to find and raise a Soviet
submarine that sank in the pacific. A recon dive on a containership
using an ROV is a piece of cake in comparison. Given AIS coverage
of major choke points, SOSUS. SURTASS and maritime recon aircraft
the chances of such a vessel remaining unidentified are minimal.

Keith

[Dean Markley]

On Monday, July 23, 2012 4:11:08 PM UTC-4, Andrew Swallow wrote:
> On 23/07/2012 16:55, Jim Yanik wrote:

> &gt; Andrew Swallow &lt;am.sw...@btinternet.com&gt; wrote in
> &gt; news:qvmdnY4Gu441SpHN...@bt.com:
> &gt;
> &gt;&gt; On 23/07/2012 00:29, Fred J. McCall wrote:
> &gt;&gt; {snip}
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt;&gt; What you suggest above is, well, insufficiently imaginative. The idea
> &gt;&gt;&gt; isn&#39;t (necessarily) to stand toe to toe with regular heavy formations.
> &gt;&gt;&gt; The idea is to make any occupation untenable.
> &gt;&gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; You can train the militia to be an English speaking version of the
> &gt;&gt; French Resistance if you want, but I suspect that it is a waste. Few
> &gt;&gt; countries are physically able to invade the USA and those that can do
> &gt;&gt; not appear to be arming for it. If any try the normal military can
> &gt;&gt; fight them.
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; There are however countries and groups that want to attack the USA.
> &gt;&gt; They can (and have) put a dozen or so men on a commercial liner or
> &gt;&gt; aircraft. They need dealing with.
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;&gt; Andrew Swallow
> &gt;&gt;
> &gt;
> &gt; I could see other countries invading the US if an EMP attack crippled the
> &gt; US,especially if US citizens are dying from disease and starvation. It
> &gt; might even come under the guise of &quot;aid&quot;;naturally,they would use troops to
> &gt; keep control over the &quot;aid&quot;....
> &gt; Troops and their arms can be delivered in &quot;Ro-Ro&quot; or other commercial
> &gt; shipping,and cargo aircraft,no need to build landing craft.
> &gt;

>
> EMP = nuclear.
> Any one nuking the USA will get nuked back.
>
> Then have a look to see what countries have sufficient R0-Ro and cruise
> liners to move an army around.
>
> Andrew Swallow

There are non-nuclear EMP devices. Just saying.

[Andrew Swallow]

On 24/07/2012 08:17, Fred J. McCall wrote:

>>>>> the US does not have any real militias.
>>>>> the National Guard is merely a reserve component of the Regular
>>>>> military. some NG units serve full-time!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As I suggest above it may be time to create a modern militia.
>>>> Militias are not be able to beat modern armies but they may be able to
>>>> go 2 to 1 against lightly armed terrorist gangs.
>>>>
>>>

>>> well,perhaps the wrong assumption is that the US military would go along
>>> with an usurping,abusive US government.
>>> Or that they would not defect and bring along heavier weaponry to the
>>> rebels,as is happening all around the ME right now.
>>>
>>> Plus,it's an extra,costly expense to arm and equip an independent militia
>>> AND the Regular military. Thus the Second Amendment,putting power in the
>>> hands of the People.
>>>
>>
>> Hmm. Did General Lee use the militia?
>>
>

> Both sides did. Standing armies were pretty small in those days.

>
>>
>> State governors can warehouse ammunition and keep lists of logistical
>> items such as the location of trucking companies and school buses.
>>
>

> Sorry, but your point isn't clear.
>

State level preparations for the militia to fight the Federal Government.

Andrew Swallow

[Andrew Swallow]

True but any non-nuclear EMP that can knock out anything bigger than a
city block?

Andrew Swallow

[Jim Yanik]

Jeff <je...@asystems.com> wrote in news:jum2fu$4ku$1...@speranza.aioe.org:

>
>> Given AIS coverage
>> of major choke points, SOSUS. SURTASS and maritime recon aircraft
>> the chances of such a vessel remaining unidentified are minimal.
>>
>> Keith
>

> Well that didn't work for the Arctic Sea, did it!!
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>

how does SOSUS or SURTASS identify the national origin of a ship???
a ship could travel between several ports before heading across the
Atlantic and launching a missile outside the 200 mile zone.
Fact is,the ocean is a big place,and not every ship out at sea is
positively identified before it gets close to US borders.

and after an EMP attack,things are going to be pretty disorganized,if they
work at all.

[Bill]

On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 13:33:48 -0500, Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov>
wrote:

>how does SOSUS or SURTASS identify the national origin of a ship???

Merchant shipping, all merchant shipping, is tracked.

One must assume that an awake intelligence agency keeps track of such
things, even if it's only with a computer programme that eats the
data and squawks if it comes back with some ship disappearing.

>and after an EMP attack,things are going to be pretty disorganized,if they
>work at all.

You're being silly again.

The one organisation in the world that wouldn't feel much of the bump
would be the US Navy

[george152]

There are a number of ship tracking systems operating now. You just
look for the ship closest to the 'launch point' and send a number of
nukes into that countries military and governmental centers
BTW I use
http://marinetraffic.com/ais/

[scott s.]

Andrew Swallow <am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote in

news:RrydnaeJdf6SLJDN...@bt.com:

>
> Hmm. Did General Lee use the militia?

Yes, though I think the militia for the most part operated
within their counties of origin, not in campaigns. There
were also partisan forces such as Mosby. That's why in
some cases you have to be careful with "numbers" proferred
for army size, which tend to only count Provisional Army
(PACS) units.

scott s.
.

[Keith W]

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Jeff <je...@asystems.com> wrote in news:jum2fu$4ku$1...@speranza.aioe.org:
>
>>
>>> Given AIS coverage
>>> of major choke points, SOSUS. SURTASS and maritime recon aircraft
>>> the chances of such a vessel remaining unidentified are minimal.
>>>
>>> Keith
>>
>> Well that didn't work for the Arctic Sea, did it!!
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> how does SOSUS or SURTASS identify the national origin of a ship???

It allows you to locate the vessel even if scuttled

> a ship could travel between several ports before heading across the
> Atlantic and launching a missile outside the 200 mile zone.

Indeed it could, you are aware of the DSP and SBIRS satellites, operated
by the Air Force Space Command I suppose ?

Their task is to detect missile launches and alert NORAD, placed in
geosynchronous orbit they scan the earth, During Desert Storm they
were able to detect Scud launches in real time.

Now that gives a pretty good location at launch time for SURTASS
and SOSUS to look into for any of the sound associated with scuttling

> Fact is,the ocean is a big place,and not every ship out at sea is
> positively identified before it gets close to US borders.
>

It sure as hell will be located if it launches a missile.

> and after an EMP attack,things are going to be pretty disorganized,if
> they work at all.

The military use hardened electronics for just that reason.

Keith

[Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.]

Jim Yanik wrote:
>
> Fact is, not every ship out at sea is positively identified

avoiding identification is childishly simple
;-)

[Bill]

That should read 'Used to be..'

In these days of satellites and digital signatures it no longer is.

What's more it is reasonable to assume that people do so, especially
as the British have just turned back a Russia merchant ship carrying
arms to Syria...