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For current U.S. military...a moral note
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Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
Apr 30, 2012, 4:00:01 PM4/30/12
to
Each person has an individual responsibility to
determine if his actions are moral, and no government
or army may ever take that responsibility away.
--
definition:
murder - the unjustifiable (immoral) killing of people, NO EXCEPTIONS.
Eugene Griessel
Apr 30, 2012, 4:18:34 PM4/30/12
to
"Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <dr...@jameford.edu> wrote:
>
>Each person has an individual responsibility to
>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
And you have yet to determine that your actions are immoral? Yet you
>
>Each person has an individual responsibility to
>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
want to pontificate from a moral high ground which in your case is
actually a quagmire.
Son, you really need to take a good long look at yourself. Any normal
person would be disgusted with what they see.
Bill
Apr 30, 2012, 4:53:00 PM4/30/12
to
In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
dr...@jameford.edu says...
And so your statement is meaningless.
No change there then...
--
William Black
When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
time to leave.
dr...@jameford.edu says...
>
> Each person has an individual responsibility to
> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
But morality is determined by culture.
> Each person has an individual responsibility to
> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
And so your statement is meaningless.
No change there then...
--
William Black
When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
time to leave.
Eugene Griessel
Apr 30, 2012, 5:05:10 PM4/30/12
to
Bill <black...@gmail.com> wrote:
>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
>dr...@jameford.edu says...
>>
>> Each person has an individual responsibility to
>> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
>But morality is determined by culture.
>
>And so your statement is meaningless.
>
>No change there then...
Quin is of the opinion that morality is timeless and universal. At
>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
>dr...@jameford.edu says...
>>
>> Each person has an individual responsibility to
>> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
>But morality is determined by culture.
>
>And so your statement is meaningless.
>
>No change there then...
least his interpretation of morality. Pity he shows none himself.
Dennis
Apr 30, 2012, 6:14:12 PM4/30/12
to
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
> Each person has an individual responsibility to
> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
No one denies that.
> Each person has an individual responsibility to
> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
So far as that goes:
"You do not have to obey criminal orders."
- in the paybook of WWII Wehrmacht soldiers
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
Apr 30, 2012, 6:20:59 PM4/30/12
to
Bill wrote:
> In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
> dr...@jameford.edu says...
>
>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
>
> But morality is determined by culture.
Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
> In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
> dr...@jameford.edu says...
>
>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
>
> But morality is determined by culture.
Look it up. Even *you* have your very own personal morality, son.
> And so your statement is meaningless.
>
> No change there then...
;-)
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
Apr 30, 2012, 6:26:42 PM4/30/12
to
morality...well let's just agree you're a peabrain and leave it there.
;-)
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
Apr 30, 2012, 6:36:30 PM4/30/12
to
Dennis wrote:
> Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
>
>
>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
>
> No one denies that.
oh sure, 2 peabrains here have already denied it
> Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
>
>
>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
>
> No one denies that.
>
> So far as that goes:
>
> "You do not have to obey criminal orders."
>
> - in the paybook of WWII Wehrmacht soldiers
;-)
Bill
Apr 30, 2012, 6:46:29 PM4/30/12
to
In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLS...@supernews.com>,
dr...@jameford.edu says...
I consider it reprehensible to not use my real name in Internet
postings, you don't bother about it.
So, in my opinion, you are an immoral person.
dr...@jameford.edu says...
>
> Bill wrote:
> > In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
> > dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >
> >>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> >>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> >>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
> >
> >
> > But morality is determined by culture.
>
> Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>
The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
> Bill wrote:
> > In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
> > dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >
> >>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> >>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> >>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
> >
> >
> > But morality is determined by culture.
>
> Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>
I consider it reprehensible to not use my real name in Internet
postings, you don't bother about it.
So, in my opinion, you are an immoral person.
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
Apr 30, 2012, 7:39:05 PM4/30/12
to
Bill wrote:
> In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLS...@supernews.com>,
> dr...@jameford.edu says...
>
>>Bill wrote:
>>
>>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
>>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
>>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>>>
>>>
>>>But morality is determined by culture.
>>
>>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>
>
> The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
> In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLS...@supernews.com>,
> dr...@jameford.edu says...
>
>>Bill wrote:
>>
>>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
>>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
>>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>>>
>>>
>>>But morality is determined by culture.
>>
>>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>
>
> The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
[at least this dunce is now acknowledging individual morality]
;-)
Bill
Apr 30, 2012, 8:43:01 PM4/30/12
to
In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLS...@supernews.com>,
Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
considered a deadly insult in other parts.
Chat with some bloke who follows Pashtunwali and you'll find blood feuds
and paying blood money are, to him, totally moral.
Your lack of experience with the world and your rather provincial and US
centred views are skewing your perception of that world.
> [at least this dunce is now acknowledging individual morality]
So telling lies isn't against your moral code then?
dr...@jameford.edu says...
>
> Bill wrote:
>
> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLS...@supernews.com>,
> > dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >
> >>Bill wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
> >>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> >>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> >>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>But morality is determined by culture.
> >>
> >>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
> >
> >
> > The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>
> Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
That depends.
>
> Bill wrote:
>
> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLS...@supernews.com>,
> > dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >
> >>Bill wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
> >>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> >>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> >>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>But morality is determined by culture.
> >>
> >>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
> >
> >
> > The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>
> Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
considered a deadly insult in other parts.
Chat with some bloke who follows Pashtunwali and you'll find blood feuds
and paying blood money are, to him, totally moral.
Your lack of experience with the world and your rather provincial and US
centred views are skewing your perception of that world.
> [at least this dunce is now acknowledging individual morality]
NickyK
Apr 30, 2012, 8:43:12 PM4/30/12
to
On Apr 30, 6:26 pm, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@jameford.edu>
wrote:
> Eugene Griessel wrote:
> > Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
> >>d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> - Show quoted text -
YAWNzzzzzzzzzzz
wrote:
> Eugene Griessel wrote:
> > Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
> >>d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> >>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> >>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
> >>But morality is determined by culture.
>
> >>And so your statement is meaningless.
>
> >>No change there then...
>
> > Quin is of the opinion that morality is timeless and universal. At
> > least his interpretation of morality. Pity he shows none himself.
>
> Son, how you could stretch individual morality into a timeless or universal
> morality...well let's just agree you're a peabrain and leave it there.
> ;-)
>
> --
> definition:
> murder - the unjustifiable (immoral) killing of people, NO EXCEPTIONS.- Hide quoted text -
> >>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> >>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> >>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
> >>But morality is determined by culture.
>
> >>And so your statement is meaningless.
>
> >>No change there then...
>
> > Quin is of the opinion that morality is timeless and universal. At
> > least his interpretation of morality. Pity he shows none himself.
>
> Son, how you could stretch individual morality into a timeless or universal
> morality...well let's just agree you're a peabrain and leave it there.
> ;-)
>
> --
> definition:
>
> - Show quoted text -
YAWNzzzzzzzzzzz
NickyK
Apr 30, 2012, 8:42:48 PM4/30/12
to
On Apr 30, 7:39 pm, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@jameford.edu>
wrote:
> Bill wrote:
> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLSnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@supernews.com>,
> > d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >>Bill wrote:
>
> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
> >>>d...@jameford.edu says...
wrote:
> Bill wrote:
> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLSnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@supernews.com>,
> > d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >>Bill wrote:
>
> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
> >>>d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> >>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> >>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
> >>>But morality is determined by culture.
>
> >>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>
> > The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>
> Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
>
> [at least this dunce is now acknowledging individual morality]
> ;-)- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> >>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> >>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
> >>>But morality is determined by culture.
>
> >>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>
> > The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>
> Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
>
> [at least this dunce is now acknowledging individual morality]
NickyK
Apr 30, 2012, 8:43:05 PM4/30/12
to
NickyK
Apr 30, 2012, 8:42:57 PM4/30/12
to
On Apr 30, 6:46 pm, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLSnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@supernews.com>,
> d...@jameford.edu says...
> In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLSnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@supernews.com>,
>
>
>
> > Bill wrote:
> > > In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
> > > d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> > >>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> > >>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> > >>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
> > > But morality is determined by culture.
>
> > Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>
> The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>
> I consider it reprehensible to not use my real name in Internet
> postings, you don't bother about it.
>
> So, in my opinion, you are an immoral person.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
> time to leave.
YAWNzzzzzzzzzzz
> > >>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> > >>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> > >>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
> > > But morality is determined by culture.
>
> > Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>
> The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>
> I consider it reprehensible to not use my real name in Internet
> postings, you don't bother about it.
>
> So, in my opinion, you are an immoral person.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
> time to leave.
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
Apr 30, 2012, 9:14:20 PM4/30/12
to
and what's your opinion of Swisher Sweets?
;-)
dino
Apr 30, 2012, 11:11:47 PM4/30/12
to
In article <MPG.2a0941f4f...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
never change and have always been, regardless of accepted mores. An example is
slavery. Even though societies have accepted it, some believe that it has
always been immoral.
>
>In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLS...@supernews.com>,
>dr...@jameford.edu says...
>>
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLS...@supernews.com>,
>> > dr...@jameford.edu says...
>> >
>> >>Bill wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
>> >>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
>> >>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>> >>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>But morality is determined by culture.
>> >>
>> >>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>> >
>> >
>> > The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>>
>> Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
>
>That depends.
>
>Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
>considered a deadly insult in other parts.
I think you're confusing mores with morals. Some folks believe that morals
>In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLS...@supernews.com>,
>dr...@jameford.edu says...
>>
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLS...@supernews.com>,
>> > dr...@jameford.edu says...
>> >
>> >>Bill wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
>> >>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
>> >>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>> >>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>But morality is determined by culture.
>> >>
>> >>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>> >
>> >
>> > The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>>
>> Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
>
>That depends.
>
>Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
>considered a deadly insult in other parts.
never change and have always been, regardless of accepted mores. An example is
slavery. Even though societies have accepted it, some believe that it has
always been immoral.
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D
Apr 30, 2012, 11:30:54 PM4/30/12
to
In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
> Each person has an individual responsibility to
> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
Each person has the individual responsibility to determine if his lies are moral
> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
conv442
May 1, 2012, 12:13:03 AM5/1/12
to
Quite frankly anyone in the military who has any understanding of what
the meaning of their oath actually is, they already have undertaken a
moral challenge.
"I solemnly swear to support and defend The Constitution of the USofA
against all enemies; foreign and DOMESTIC."
So the basis of service is clearly written down in black and white.
Jim
the meaning of their oath actually is, they already have undertaken a
moral challenge.
"I solemnly swear to support and defend The Constitution of the USofA
against all enemies; foreign and DOMESTIC."
So the basis of service is clearly written down in black and white.
Jim
jonathan
May 1, 2012, 1:34:49 AM5/1/12
to
"Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D" <DrVincen...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:DrVincentQuinPhD-29...@news.solani.org...
> In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <dr...@jameford.edu> wrote:
>
>> Each person has an individual responsibility to
>> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
And in the US each person has the right to decide
> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <dr...@jameford.edu> wrote:
>
>> Each person has an individual responsibility to
>> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
whether to....volunteer for military service or not.
>
> Each person has the individual responsibility to determine
> if his lies are moral
think our military is doing that is immoral? But before
answering that, try to imagine how much freedom
and democracy the world would have today
if not for America.
s
Eugene Griessel
May 1, 2012, 1:49:21 AM5/1/12
to
Op Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:13:03 -0700 (PDT), conv442 <james...@ge.com>
wrote:
Quin does not believe oaths, contracts, undertakings, etc. should be
binding. Much like his "morality" vis a vis misrepresenting himself.
Eugene L Griessel
If it's dangerous, makes lots of noise, and scares your mama,
it's gotta be fun!
wrote:
binding. Much like his "morality" vis a vis misrepresenting himself.
Eugene L Griessel
If it's dangerous, makes lots of noise, and scares your mama,
it's gotta be fun!
Eugene Griessel
May 1, 2012, 2:06:14 AM5/1/12
to
Op Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:46:29 +0100, Bill <black...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>I consider it reprehensible to not use my real name in Internet
>postings, you don't bother about it.
>
>So, in my opinion, you are an immoral person.
In my country claiming educational qualifications one does not possess
is not only morally reprehensible but punishable by law.
Eugene L Griessel
I believe in compulsory cannibalism. If people were forced to eat
what they killed, there would be no more wars.'
wrote:
>I consider it reprehensible to not use my real name in Internet
>postings, you don't bother about it.
>
>So, in my opinion, you are an immoral person.
is not only morally reprehensible but punishable by law.
Eugene L Griessel
I believe in compulsory cannibalism. If people were forced to eat
what they killed, there would be no more wars.'
Bill
May 1, 2012, 7:17:55 AM5/1/12
to
In article <jnnk9...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com
says...
Some folks believe that morals
> never change and have always been, regardless of accepted mores.
They're wrong
A good example is the blood feud, which is acceptable in many places
but utterly abhorred in others.
says...
>
> In article <MPG.2a0941f4f...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> >
> >In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLS...@supernews.com>,
> >dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >>
> >> Bill wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLS...@supernews.com>,
> >> > dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >> >
> >> >>Bill wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
> >> >>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> >> >>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> >> >>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>But morality is determined by culture.
> >> >>
> >> >>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
> >>
> >> Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
> >
> >That depends.
> >
> >Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
> >considered a deadly insult in other parts.
>
> I think you're confusing mores with morals.
Goodness no.
> In article <MPG.2a0941f4f...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> >
> >In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLS...@supernews.com>,
> >dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >>
> >> Bill wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLS...@supernews.com>,
> >> > dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >> >
> >> >>Bill wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
> >> >>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> >> >>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> >> >>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>But morality is determined by culture.
> >> >>
> >> >>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
> >>
> >> Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
> >
> >That depends.
> >
> >Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
> >considered a deadly insult in other parts.
>
> I think you're confusing mores with morals.
Some folks believe that morals
> never change and have always been, regardless of accepted mores.
A good example is the blood feud, which is acceptable in many places
but utterly abhorred in others.
Dean
May 1, 2012, 7:49:40 AM5/1/12
to
On May 1, 2:06 am, Eugene Griessel <eug...@dynagen.co.za> wrote:
> Op Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:46:29 +0100, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com>
OK, I'm taking donations to give Mr. Quin a free trip to South Africa.
> Op Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:46:29 +0100, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com>
dino
May 1, 2012, 8:33:09 AM5/1/12
to
In article <MPG.2a09d6bf...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
I think so too, but some very well educated Christians believe that. Basically,
they believe that Christianity defines moral values for everyone. They even go
as far as to ask if an atheist can be moral. Some say it's possible; others say
it is not.
My opinion is that Christian morals are constantly evolving. I believe that
society's mores have influenced Christianity's moral values rather than vice
versa.
they believe that Christianity defines moral values for everyone. They even go
as far as to ask if an atheist can be moral. Some say it's possible; others say
it is not.
My opinion is that Christian morals are constantly evolving. I believe that
society's mores have influenced Christianity's moral values rather than vice
versa.
NickyK
May 1, 2012, 9:49:43 AM5/1/12
to
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On May 1, 7:17 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <jnnk9j01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
> says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <MPG.2a0941f4f4295915989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> > >In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdn...@supernews.com>,
> > >d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> > >> Bill wrote:
>
> > >> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLSnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@supernews.com>,
> > >> > d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> > >> >>Bill wrote:
>
> > >> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
> > >> >>>d...@jameford.edu says...
> In article <jnnk9j01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
> says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <MPG.2a0941f4f4295915989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> > >In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdn...@supernews.com>,
> > >d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> > >> Bill wrote:
>
> > >> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLSnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@supernews.com>,
> > >> > d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> > >> >>Bill wrote:
>
> > >> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
> > >> >>>d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> > >> >>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> > >> >>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> > >> >>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
> > >> >>>But morality is determined by culture.
>
> > >> >>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>
> > >> > The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>
> > >> Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
>
> > >That depends.
>
> > >Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
> > >considered a deadly insult in other parts.
>
> > I think you're confusing mores with morals.
>
> Goodness no.
>
> Some folks believe that morals
>
> > never change and have always been, regardless of accepted mores.
>
> They're wrong
>
> A good example is the blood feud, which is acceptable in many places
> but utterly abhorred in others.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
> time to leave.- Hide quoted text -
> > >> >>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> > >> >>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> > >> >>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
> > >> >>>But morality is determined by culture.
>
> > >> >>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>
> > >> > The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>
> > >> Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
>
> > >That depends.
>
> > >Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
> > >considered a deadly insult in other parts.
>
> > I think you're confusing mores with morals.
>
> Goodness no.
>
> Some folks believe that morals
>
> > never change and have always been, regardless of accepted mores.
>
> They're wrong
>
> A good example is the blood feud, which is acceptable in many places
> but utterly abhorred in others.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
Bill
May 1, 2012, 9:51:44 AM5/1/12
to
In article <jnol6...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com says...
One other problem is that they also refuse to define 'Christian
morals'.
morals'.
NickyK
May 1, 2012, 9:46:13 AM5/1/12
to
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On May 1, 8:33 am, dino <dino_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> In article <MPG.2a09d6bff84b9e2989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> >>In article <MPG.2a0941f4f4295915989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> >> >In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdn...@supernews.com>,
> >> >d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >> >> Bill wrote:
>
> >> >> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLSnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@supernews.com>,
> >> >> > d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >> >> >>Bill wrote:
>
> >> >> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
> >> >> >>>d...@jameford.edu says...
> >abhorred in others.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> In article <MPG.2a09d6bff84b9e2989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> >>In article <MPG.2a0941f4f4295915989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> >> >In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdn...@supernews.com>,
> >> >d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >> >> Bill wrote:
>
> >> >> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLSnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@supernews.com>,
> >> >> > d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >> >> >>Bill wrote:
>
> >> >> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
> >> >> >>>d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
NickyK
May 1, 2012, 9:49:21 AM5/1/12
to
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On May 1, 8:33 am, dino <dino_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> In article <MPG.2a09d6bff84b9e2989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <jnnk9j01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
> >says...
>
> >>In article <MPG.2a0941f4f4295915989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> In article <MPG.2a09d6bff84b9e2989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <jnnk9j01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
> >says...
>
>
> >> >In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdn...@supernews.com>,
> >> >d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >> >> Bill wrote:
>
> >> >> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLSnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@supernews.com>,
> >> >> > d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >> >> >>Bill wrote:
>
> >> >> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
> >> >> >>>d...@jameford.edu says...
NickyK
May 1, 2012, 9:49:34 AM5/1/12
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Eugene Griessel
May 1, 2012, 10:13:41 AM5/1/12
to
Op Tue, 1 May 2012 14:51:44 +0100, Bill <black...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>One other problem is that they also refuse to define 'Christian
>morals'.
As if they are immutable. Morals change with the times no matter from
where they originally spring. The very definition of morality depends
on subjective judgements as to what is "good" and what is "bad". For
a large part of Christianity (and Islam) slave-owning and trading was
morally defensible, as an example. Wars were (are) not only morally
defensible but positively encouraged.
Quin's objections to war, if he indeed actually does object to it, (I
would not believe Quin if he told me he was lying - he may merely be
trolling) has no basis in religion, legality, goverment or society.
Very fiew exalt in it, relish it or "monger" it (to use one of his
hackneyed accusations) but a sizeable majority accept it as a
necessary evil and subscribe to it when it eventuates. Since
civilisation began it has unfortunately been a fairly normal state of
humankind - in the sense of war basically being an extention of the
urge to thieve. We even see planned wars amongst the higher mammals
and especially primates - mainly for territory and females. One of
the uncertainties the last few generations have had to grapple with,
to some extent, is the attempt to make war something else. To
suppress the primal urge that drives war and to convert it into a sort
of policing function. Whenever legislation attempt to suppress
instinct one ends up with conflict, psychological and physical, that
may lead to unexpected outcomes.
Eugene L Griessel
One of the biggest and most important tools of theoretical physics
is the wastebasket. - Richard Feynman
wrote:
>One other problem is that they also refuse to define 'Christian
>morals'.
where they originally spring. The very definition of morality depends
on subjective judgements as to what is "good" and what is "bad". For
a large part of Christianity (and Islam) slave-owning and trading was
morally defensible, as an example. Wars were (are) not only morally
defensible but positively encouraged.
Quin's objections to war, if he indeed actually does object to it, (I
would not believe Quin if he told me he was lying - he may merely be
trolling) has no basis in religion, legality, goverment or society.
Very fiew exalt in it, relish it or "monger" it (to use one of his
hackneyed accusations) but a sizeable majority accept it as a
necessary evil and subscribe to it when it eventuates. Since
civilisation began it has unfortunately been a fairly normal state of
humankind - in the sense of war basically being an extention of the
urge to thieve. We even see planned wars amongst the higher mammals
and especially primates - mainly for territory and females. One of
the uncertainties the last few generations have had to grapple with,
to some extent, is the attempt to make war something else. To
suppress the primal urge that drives war and to convert it into a sort
of policing function. Whenever legislation attempt to suppress
instinct one ends up with conflict, psychological and physical, that
may lead to unexpected outcomes.
Eugene L Griessel
One of the biggest and most important tools of theoretical physics
is the wastebasket. - Richard Feynman
NickyK
May 1, 2012, 9:49:58 AM5/1/12
to
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NickyK
May 1, 2012, 9:49:51 AM5/1/12
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On May 1, 2:06 am, Eugene Griessel <eug...@dynagen.co.za> wrote:
> Op Mon, 30 Apr 2012 23:46:29 +0100, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com>
Dean
May 1, 2012, 11:31:53 AM5/1/12
to
On May 1, 9:51 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <jnol650...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says...
>
> > >> >In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdn...@supernews.com>,
> > >> >d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> > >> >> Bill wrote:
>
> > >> >> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLSnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@supernews.com>,
> > >> >> > d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> > >> >> >>Bill wrote:
>
> > >> >> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
> > >> >> >>>d...@jameford.edu says...
> In article <jnol650...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <MPG.2a09d6bff84b9e2989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> > >In article <jnnk9j01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
> > >says...
>
> > >>In article <MPG.2a0941f4f4295915989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <MPG.2a09d6bff84b9e2989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> > >In article <jnnk9j01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
> > >says...
>
>
> > >> >In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdn...@supernews.com>,
> > >> >d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> > >> >> Bill wrote:
>
> > >> >> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLSnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@supernews.com>,
> > >> >> > d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> > >> >> >>Bill wrote:
>
> > >> >> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
> > >> >> >>>d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> > >> >> >>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> > >> >> >>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> > >> >> >>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
> > >> >> >>>But morality is determined by culture.
>
> > >> >> >>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>
> > >> >> > The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>
> > >> >> Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
>
> > >> >That depends.
>
> > >> >Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
> > >> >considered a deadly insult in other parts.
>
> > >> I think you're confusing mores with morals.
>
> > >Goodness no.
>
> > >> Some folks believe that morals never change
> > >> and have always been, regardless of
> > >> accepted mores.
>
> > >They're wrong
>
> > I think so too, but some very well educated Christians believe that. Basically,
> > they believe that Christianity defines moral values for everyone.
>
> One other problem is that they also refuse to define 'Christian
> morals'.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
> time to leave.
They refuse to define them but they know them when they see them!
> > >> >> >>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> > >> >> >>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> > >> >> >>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
> > >> >> >>>But morality is determined by culture.
>
> > >> >> >>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>
> > >> >> > The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>
> > >> >> Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
>
> > >> >That depends.
>
> > >> >Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
> > >> >considered a deadly insult in other parts.
>
> > >> I think you're confusing mores with morals.
>
> > >Goodness no.
>
> > >> Some folks believe that morals never change
> > >> and have always been, regardless of
> > >> accepted mores.
>
> > >They're wrong
>
> > I think so too, but some very well educated Christians believe that. Basically,
> > they believe that Christianity defines moral values for everyone.
>
> One other problem is that they also refuse to define 'Christian
> morals'.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
> time to leave.
Daryl
May 1, 2012, 11:51:19 AM5/1/12
to
used for people. Important, most costly, etc. were used but
never Greatest Asset. I have heard some pretty skank
corporations use it though. And when your Corp starts using it
it means they are blowing wind up your butt, laying off more
people and demanding much more from you or YOU will be part of
the unappreciated unemployed people as well. The least this kind
of Corp will do is to make your life miserable attempting to get
you to quit.
We dealt in assets in the AF and all assets were equal; people,
equipment, supply, etc.. If any of the above were a failure, all
were a failure. When all were a success then all succeeded.
--
http://tvmoviesforfree.com
for free movies and Nostalgic TV. Tons of Military shows and
programs.
peter skelton
May 1, 2012, 12:45:00 PM5/1/12
to
"Daryl" wrote in message news:jnp0pt$sd1$1...@dont-email.me...
Sometimes leaving is not an option: “THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS THIS COUNTRY'S
GREATEST ASSET.” George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
GREATEST ASSET.” George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
Jim Wilkins
May 1, 2012, 1:17:33 PM5/1/12
to
"dino" <dino_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:jnol6...@drn.newsguy.com...
> ...
> I think so too, but some very well educated Christians believe that.
> Basically,
> they believe that Christianity defines moral values for everyone.
> ...
> Basically,
> they believe that Christianity defines moral values for everyone.
>
The Book that most universally defines the Western code of behavior
does NOT proscribe the smiting of evil foes:
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt08a15.htm#8
Saul was chastised for sparing Agag and the best of his animals,
contrary to the Lord's wish that he "Go and utterly destroy the
sinners the Amalekites..."
"and the Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel." 1
Samuel 35
If you reject it and substitute your own definitions of morality don't
delude yourself that they should apply to anyones' actions but your
own.
And especially don't expect your arrogant slogans to shield you as you
fling your hate and lies at passers-by.
Bill
May 1, 2012, 1:58:36 PM5/1/12
to
In article <jnp5oo$tk1$1...@dont-email.me>, murat...@gmail.com says...
Nobody is fighting another Western power...
>
> "dino" <dino_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
> news:jnol6...@drn.newsguy.com...
> > ...
> > I think so too, but some very well educated Christians believe that.
> > Basically,
> > they believe that Christianity defines moral values for everyone.
> > ...
> >
>
> The Book that most universally defines the Western code of behavior
> does NOT proscribe the smiting of evil foes:
It doesn't matter.
> "dino" <dino_...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
> news:jnol6...@drn.newsguy.com...
> > ...
> > I think so too, but some very well educated Christians believe that.
> > Basically,
> > they believe that Christianity defines moral values for everyone.
> > ...
> >
>
> The Book that most universally defines the Western code of behavior
> does NOT proscribe the smiting of evil foes:
Nobody is fighting another Western power...
Bill
May 1, 2012, 2:00:47 PM5/1/12
to
In article <68abbf15-5759-4f7a-9e43-
e0141c...@f5g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, dama...@gmail.com says...
My impression is the reverse.
They're always prepared to tell you if they think they see something
they feel is immoral.
e0141c...@f5g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, dama...@gmail.com says...
They're always prepared to tell you if they think they see something
they feel is immoral.
Bill
May 1, 2012, 2:02:35 PM5/1/12
to
In article <jnp3ue$hnv$1...@dont-email.me>, skel...@yahoo.ca says...
>
> Sometimes leaving is not an option: ?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS THIS COUNTRY'S
> GREATEST ASSET.? George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
Leaving is usually an option for just about anything, including leaving
the USA.
Leaving is often uncomfortable and frightening, but very rarely is it
impossible.
>
> Sometimes leaving is not an option: ?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS THIS COUNTRY'S
> GREATEST ASSET.? George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
Leaving is usually an option for just about anything, including leaving
the USA.
Leaving is often uncomfortable and frightening, but very rarely is it
impossible.
peter skelton
May 1, 2012, 2:15:48 PM5/1/12
to
"Bill" wrote in message
news:MPG.2a0a358fe...@news.eternal-september.org...
In article <jnp3ue$hnv$1...@dont-email.me>, skel...@yahoo.ca says...
>
> Sometimes leaving is not an option: ?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS THIS COUNTRY'S
> GREATEST ASSET.? George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
>Leaving is usually an option for just about anything, including leaving
the USA.
>Leaving is often uncomfortable and frightening, but very rarely is it
impossible.
For an individual, or a small group, that's true. For the American people,
or even the Small Investors of Alexandria, Virginia it's problematic.
news:MPG.2a0a358fe...@news.eternal-september.org...
In article <jnp3ue$hnv$1...@dont-email.me>, skel...@yahoo.ca says...
>
> Sometimes leaving is not an option: ?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS THIS COUNTRY'S
> GREATEST ASSET.? George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
>Leaving is usually an option for just about anything, including leaving
the USA.
>Leaving is often uncomfortable and frightening, but very rarely is it
impossible.
or even the Small Investors of Alexandria, Virginia it's problematic.
Jim Wilkins
May 1, 2012, 2:21:36 PM5/1/12
to
"peter skelton" <skel...@yahoo.ca> wrote
>
> For an individual, or a small group, that's true. For the American
> people, or even the Small Investors of Alexandria, Virginia it's
> problematic.
As Virginia knows well, having tried once.
> For an individual, or a small group, that's true. For the American
> people, or even the Small Investors of Alexandria, Virginia it's
> problematic.
jsw
Andrew Swallow
May 1, 2012, 3:46:48 PM5/1/12
to
On 01/05/2012 07:06, Eugene Griessel wrote:
{snip}
>
> I believe in compulsory cannibalism. If people were forced to eat
> what they killed, there would be no more wars.'
Alternatively there would be some well fed generals and presidents.
Andrew Swallow
{snip}
>
> I believe in compulsory cannibalism. If people were forced to eat
> what they killed, there would be no more wars.'
Andrew Swallow
Eugene Griessel
May 1, 2012, 3:48:01 PM5/1/12
to
Op Tue, 01 May 2012 20:46:48 +0100, Andrew Swallow
It's actually a crappy quote given the propensity of certain folks who
enjoy "long pig" and war.
Eugene L Griessel
I don't believe in astrology. We Leos are very skeptical.
enjoy "long pig" and war.
Eugene L Griessel
I don't believe in astrology. We Leos are very skeptical.
George152
May 1, 2012, 4:01:15 PM5/1/12
to
Eugene Griessel
May 1, 2012, 4:11:16 PM5/1/12
to
Op Wed, 02 May 2012 08:01:15 +1200, George152 <gbl...@hnpl.net>
wrote:
Or "Emperor" Bokassa?
Eugene L Griessel
When a man says it's a silly, childish game, it's probably
something his wife can beat him at.
wrote:
Eugene L Griessel
When a man says it's a silly, childish game, it's probably
something his wife can beat him at.
dino
May 1, 2012, 4:26:04 PM5/1/12
to
In article <MPG.2a0a358fe...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
>In article <jnp3ue$hnv$1...@dont-email.me>, skel...@yahoo.ca says...
>>
>
>> Sometimes leaving is not an option: ?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS THIS COUNTRY'S
>> GREATEST ASSET.? George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
>
>Leaving is usually an option for just about anything, including leaving
>the USA.
>
>Leaving is often uncomfortable and frightening, but very rarely is it
>impossible.
Unless you're trying to get an F-1 Visa or H-1B Visa to enter the U.S.
>In article <jnp3ue$hnv$1...@dont-email.me>, skel...@yahoo.ca says...
>>
>
>> Sometimes leaving is not an option: ?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS THIS COUNTRY'S
>> GREATEST ASSET.? George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
>
>Leaving is usually an option for just about anything, including leaving
>the USA.
>
>Leaving is often uncomfortable and frightening, but very rarely is it
>impossible.
NickyK
May 1, 2012, 4:41:23 PM5/1/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On May 1, 4:26 pm, dino <dino_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> In article <MPG.2a0a358feee2716d989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
>
>
> >In article <jnp3ue$hn...@dont-email.me>, skelto...@yahoo.ca says...
> In article <MPG.2a0a358feee2716d989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
>
>
> >In article <jnp3ue$hn...@dont-email.me>, skelto...@yahoo.ca says...
>
> >> Sometimes leaving is not an option: ?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS THIS COUNTRY'S
> >> GREATEST ASSET.? George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
>
> >Leaving is usually an option for just about anything, including leaving
> >the USA.
>
> >Leaving is often uncomfortable and frightening, but very rarely is it
> >impossible.
>
> Unless you're trying to get an F-1 Visa or H-1B Visa to enter the U.S.
YAWNzzzzzzzzzzz
> >> Sometimes leaving is not an option: ?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS THIS COUNTRY'S
> >> GREATEST ASSET.? George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
>
> >Leaving is usually an option for just about anything, including leaving
> >the USA.
>
> >Leaving is often uncomfortable and frightening, but very rarely is it
> >impossible.
>
> Unless you're trying to get an F-1 Visa or H-1B Visa to enter the U.S.
NickyK
May 1, 2012, 4:41:40 PM5/1/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
NickyK
May 1, 2012, 4:41:48 PM5/1/12
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On May 1, 2:21 pm, "Jim Wilkins" <muratla...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "peter skelton" <skelto...@yahoo.ca> wrote
YAWNzzzzzzzzzzz
> "peter skelton" <skelto...@yahoo.ca> wrote
NickyK
May 1, 2012, 4:41:55 PM5/1/12
to
On May 1, 2:15 pm, "peter skelton" <skelto...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> "Bill" wrote in message
>
> news:MPG.2a0a358fe...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> In article <jnp3ue$hn...@dont-email.me>, skelto...@yahoo.ca says...
> "Bill" wrote in message
>
> news:MPG.2a0a358fe...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
>
> > Sometimes leaving is not an option: ?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS THIS COUNTRY'S
> > GREATEST ASSET.? George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
> >Leaving is usually an option for just about anything, including leaving
>
> the USA.
>
> >Leaving is often uncomfortable and frightening, but very rarely is it
>
> impossible.
>
> For an individual, or a small group, that's true. For the American people,
> or even the Small Investors of Alexandria, Virginia it's problematic.
YAWNzzzzzzzzzzz
>
>
> > Sometimes leaving is not an option: ?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS THIS COUNTRY'S
> > GREATEST ASSET.? George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
> >Leaving is usually an option for just about anything, including leaving
>
> the USA.
>
> >Leaving is often uncomfortable and frightening, but very rarely is it
>
> impossible.
>
> For an individual, or a small group, that's true. For the American people,
> or even the Small Investors of Alexandria, Virginia it's problematic.
NickyK
May 1, 2012, 4:42:03 PM5/1/12
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On May 1, 2:02 pm, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <jnp3ue$hn...@dont-email.me>, skelto...@yahoo.ca says...
YAWNzzzzzzzzzzz
> In article <jnp3ue$hn...@dont-email.me>, skelto...@yahoo.ca says...
NickyK
May 1, 2012, 4:42:17 PM5/1/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On May 1, 2:00 pm, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <68abbf15-5759-4f7a-9e43-
> e0141c881...@f5g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, damark...@gmail.com says...
> time to leave.- Hide quoted text -
> In article <68abbf15-5759-4f7a-9e43-
> e0141c881...@f5g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, damark...@gmail.com says...
NickyK
May 1, 2012, 4:42:27 PM5/1/12
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Report not abuse
On May 1, 1:58 pm, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <jnp5oo$tk...@dont-email.me>, muratla...@gmail.com says...
>
>
>
> > "dino" <dino_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
> In article <jnp5oo$tk...@dont-email.me>, muratla...@gmail.com says...
>
>
>
> > "dino" <dino_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
> >news:jnol6...@drn.newsguy.com...
> > > ...
> > > I think so too, but some very well educated Christians believe that.
> > > Basically,
> > > they believe that Christianity defines moral values for everyone.
> > > ...
>
> > The Book that most universally defines the Western code of behavior
> > does NOT proscribe the smiting of evil foes:
>
> It doesn't matter.
>
> Nobody is fighting another Western power...
>
> --
> William Black
>
> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
> time to leave.
YAWNzzzzzzzzzzz
> > > ...
> > > I think so too, but some very well educated Christians believe that.
> > > Basically,
> > > they believe that Christianity defines moral values for everyone.
> > > ...
>
> > The Book that most universally defines the Western code of behavior
> > does NOT proscribe the smiting of evil foes:
>
> It doesn't matter.
>
> Nobody is fighting another Western power...
>
> --
> William Black
>
> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
> time to leave.
NickyK
May 1, 2012, 4:41:31 PM5/1/12
to
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Dan
May 1, 2012, 4:57:01 PM5/1/12
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"president for life." Were they ever confirmed as true?
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
Bill
May 1, 2012, 5:03:13 PM5/1/12
to
In article <jnp98n$l79$1...@dont-email.me>, skel...@yahoo.ca says...
In the end we are all individuals.
Bill
May 1, 2012, 5:04:04 PM5/1/12
to
In article <jnpgs...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com
says...
Another one for whom English is not their first language...
says...
Mickey
May 1, 2012, 6:04:27 PM5/1/12
to
George152
May 1, 2012, 6:29:55 PM5/1/12
to
Eugene Griessel
May 1, 2012, 6:33:23 PM5/1/12
to
Op Wed, 02 May 2012 10:29:55 +1200, George152 <gbl...@hnpl.net>
wrote:
Or as someone once said in the high Andes: "I'll take a piece off one
of the pilots - after all they got us into this mess in the first
place."
Eugene L Griessel
I used to be indecisive; now I'm not sure.
wrote:
of the pilots - after all they got us into this mess in the first
place."
Eugene L Griessel
I used to be indecisive; now I'm not sure.
Richard Casady
May 1, 2012, 6:59:34 PM5/1/12
to
Saddam, Quadaffi, Ben Laden. Ordinarily, I don't believe in plain
murder, although pirates should be exterminated, not arrested, in
cases where there is no doubt. For the educational value. Of course I
favor Gatling guns at the bridge wings and bow. For the educational
value, in the only language they understand, let alone respect.
Casady
dino
May 1, 2012, 8:33:19 PM5/1/12
to
In article <MPG.2a0a601d3...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
don't enter. It has nothing to do with being uncomfortable or frightening.
>
>In article <jnpgs...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com
>says...
>>
>>In article <MPG.2a0a358fe...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>> >
>> >In article <jnp3ue$hnv$1...@dont-email.me>, skel...@yahoo.ca says...
>> >>
>> >
>>>> Sometimes leaving is not an option: ?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS THIS COUNTRY'S
>> >> GREATEST ASSET.? George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
>> >
>> >Leaving is usually an option for just about anything, including leaving
>> >the USA.
>> >
>> >Leaving is often uncomfortable and frightening, but very rarely is it
>> >impossible.
>>
>> Unless you're trying to get an F-1 Visa or H-1B Visa to enter the U.S.
>
>Another one for whom English is not their first language...
Huh? Leaving a country means entering another. If they don't want you, you
>In article <jnpgs...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com
>says...
>>
>>In article <MPG.2a0a358fe...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>> >
>> >In article <jnp3ue$hnv$1...@dont-email.me>, skel...@yahoo.ca says...
>> >>
>> >
>>>> Sometimes leaving is not an option: ?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS THIS COUNTRY'S
>> >> GREATEST ASSET.? George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
>> >
>> >Leaving is usually an option for just about anything, including leaving
>> >the USA.
>> >
>> >Leaving is often uncomfortable and frightening, but very rarely is it
>> >impossible.
>>
>> Unless you're trying to get an F-1 Visa or H-1B Visa to enter the U.S.
>
>Another one for whom English is not their first language...
don't enter. It has nothing to do with being uncomfortable or frightening.
Bill
May 1, 2012, 8:42:32 PM5/1/12
to
In article <jnpvc...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com
country with several million illegal immigrants.
says...
>
> In article <MPG.2a0a601d3...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> >
> >In article <jnpgs...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com
> >says...
> >>
> >>In article <MPG.2a0a358fe...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> >> >
> >> >In article <jnp3ue$hnv$1...@dont-email.me>, skel...@yahoo.ca says...
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>>> Sometimes leaving is not an option: ?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS THIS COUNTRY'S
> >> >> GREATEST ASSET.? George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
> >> >
> >> >Leaving is usually an option for just about anything, including leaving
> >> >the USA.
> >> >
> >> >Leaving is often uncomfortable and frightening, but very rarely is it
> >> >impossible.
> >>
> >> Unless you're trying to get an F-1 Visa or H-1B Visa to enter the U.S.
> >
> >Another one for whom English is not their first language...
>
> Huh? Leaving a country means entering another. If they don't want you, you
> don't enter.
Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
>
> In article <MPG.2a0a601d3...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> >
> >In article <jnpgs...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com
> >says...
> >>
> >>In article <MPG.2a0a358fe...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> >> >
> >> >In article <jnp3ue$hnv$1...@dont-email.me>, skel...@yahoo.ca says...
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>>> Sometimes leaving is not an option: ?THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS THIS COUNTRY'S
> >> >> GREATEST ASSET.? George W. Bush, Alexandria, Virginia, February 12, 2003.
> >> >
> >> >Leaving is usually an option for just about anything, including leaving
> >> >the USA.
> >> >
> >> >Leaving is often uncomfortable and frightening, but very rarely is it
> >> >impossible.
> >>
> >> Unless you're trying to get an F-1 Visa or H-1B Visa to enter the U.S.
> >
> >Another one for whom English is not their first language...
>
> Huh? Leaving a country means entering another. If they don't want you, you
> don't enter.
country with several million illegal immigrants.
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
May 1, 2012, 8:44:00 PM5/1/12
to
Bill wrote:
> In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLS...@supernews.com>,
> dr...@jameford.edu says...
>
>>Bill wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLS...@supernews.com>,
>>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
>>>>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
> and paying blood money are, to him, totally moral.
Yeah, and there are also blokes (individuals) in Pashtunwali who
find blood feuds immoral.
Son, your problem is you are unable to grasp the difference between
"individual" and "group". You think there is one homogeneous moral
code that everyone follows. Surprise! there is not. Your stupid
example of blood feud is an excellent example. Again, each
individual decides for themselves which moral values they have and
follow. Any group moral codes are ultimately just guidelines, nothing
more.
In fact, son, there is no *single* moral value that is held be
everyone...none. Go ahead, try to name one...specifically. How
about "stealing is always bad"?...you would be wrong again, son, as
I know *you* would steal when you personally deem it proper. So try another.
> Your lack of experience with the world and your rather provincial and US
> centred views are skewing your perception of that world.
We've had blood feuds in the U.S., so clearly you are the
naive bloke here, son. And sadly, even naive about Pashtunwali.
;-)
> In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLS...@supernews.com>,
> dr...@jameford.edu says...
>
>>Bill wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLS...@supernews.com>,
>>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
>>>>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
>>>>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>>>>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>But morality is determined by culture.
>>>>
>>>>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>>>
>>>
>>>The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>>
>>Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
>
>
> That depends.
>
> Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
> considered a deadly insult in other parts.
>
> Chat with some bloke who follows Pashtunwali and you'll find blood feuds
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
>>>>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>>>>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>But morality is determined by culture.
>>>>
>>>>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
>>>
>>>
>>>The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>>
>>Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
>
>
> That depends.
>
> Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
> considered a deadly insult in other parts.
>
> and paying blood money are, to him, totally moral.
Yeah, and there are also blokes (individuals) in Pashtunwali who
find blood feuds immoral.
Son, your problem is you are unable to grasp the difference between
"individual" and "group". You think there is one homogeneous moral
code that everyone follows. Surprise! there is not. Your stupid
example of blood feud is an excellent example. Again, each
individual decides for themselves which moral values they have and
follow. Any group moral codes are ultimately just guidelines, nothing
more.
In fact, son, there is no *single* moral value that is held be
everyone...none. Go ahead, try to name one...specifically. How
about "stealing is always bad"?...you would be wrong again, son, as
I know *you* would steal when you personally deem it proper. So try another.
> Your lack of experience with the world and your rather provincial and US
> centred views are skewing your perception of that world.
We've had blood feuds in the U.S., so clearly you are the
naive bloke here, son. And sadly, even naive about Pashtunwali.
;-)
dino
May 1, 2012, 11:16:26 PM5/1/12
to
In article <MPG.2a0a93579...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
Ian B MacLure
May 1, 2012, 11:18:12 PM5/1/12
to
"Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <dr...@jameford.edu> wrote in
news:EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com:
>
> Each person has an individual responsibility to
> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
Never had to sit through a lecture on military law
have you?
You wouldn't get it anyway what with bein' a idjit an' all.
IBM
news:EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com:
>
> Each person has an individual responsibility to
> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
have you?
You wouldn't get it anyway what with bein' a idjit an' all.
IBM
Ian B MacLure
May 1, 2012, 11:20:58 PM5/1/12
to
Dennis <tsalagi...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:XnsA045AF583C670ts...@130.133.4.11:
> Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
>
>> Each person has an individual responsibility to
>> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
> No one denies that.
>
> So far as that goes:
>
> "You do not have to obey criminal orders."
>
> - in the paybook of WWII Wehrmacht soldiers
And just in case Vinnie doesn't get it.
Much of what was legal in the Third Reich constituted
crimes against humanity.
Mind you they did execute one of their Kamp Kommandants
for cruelty.
IBM
news:XnsA045AF583C670ts...@130.133.4.11:
> Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
>
>> Each person has an individual responsibility to
>> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
>
> So far as that goes:
>
> "You do not have to obey criminal orders."
>
> - in the paybook of WWII Wehrmacht soldiers
And just in case Vinnie doesn't get it.
Much of what was legal in the Third Reich constituted
crimes against humanity.
Mind you they did execute one of their Kamp Kommandants
for cruelty.
IBM
dino
May 1, 2012, 11:36:01 PM5/1/12
to
In article <68abbf15-5759-4f7a...@f5g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
Dean says...
>> > >> >d...@jameford.edu says...
>>
>> > >> >> Bill wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLSnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@supernews.com>,
>> > >> >> > d...@jameford.edu says...
>>
>> > >> >> >>Bill wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
>> > >> >> >>>d...@jameford.edu says...
>=A0Basically,
>> morals'.
>>
divorce immoral? Is practicing homosexuality immoral? Is burning folks accused
of practicing witchcraft immoral? Is it immoral for inquisitors to turn over
heretics to the state knowing their punishment will be torture and death?
Dean says...
>
>On May 1, 9:51=A0am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In article <jnol650...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says...
>>
>> > In article <MPG.2a09d6bff84b9e2989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill=
>On May 1, 9:51=A0am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In article <jnol650...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says...
>>
> says...
>>
>> > >In article <jnnk9j01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
>> > >says...
>>
>> > >>In article <MPG.2a0941f4f4295915989...@news.eternal-september.org>, B=
>>
>> > >In article <jnnk9j01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
>> > >says...
>>
>> > >> >d...@jameford.edu says...
>>
>> > >> >> Bill wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> > In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLSnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@supernews.com>,
>> > >> >> > d...@jameford.edu says...
>>
>> > >> >> >>Bill wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> >>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
>> > >> >> >>>d...@jameford.edu says...
>>
>> > >> >> >>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
>> > >> >> >>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>> > >> >> >>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>>
>> > >> >> >>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
>> > >> >> >>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>> > >> >> >>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>>
>> > >> >> >>>But morality is determined by culture.
>>
>> > >> >> >>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality=
>>
>".
>>
>> > >> >> > The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>>
>> > >> >> Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
>>
>> > >> >That depends.
>>
>> > >> >Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
>> > >> >considered a deadly insult in other parts.
>>
>>
>> > >> >> > The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
>>
>> > >> >> Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
>>
>> > >> >That depends.
>>
>> > >> >Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
>> > >> >considered a deadly insult in other parts.
>>
>> > >> I think you're confusing mores with morals.
>>
>> > >Goodness no.
>>
>> > >> Some folks believe that morals never change
>> > >> and have always been, regardless of
>> > >> accepted mores.
>>
>> > >They're wrong
>>
>> > I think so too, but some very well educated Christians believe that. =
>>
>> > >Goodness no.
>>
>> > >> Some folks believe that morals never change
>> > >> and have always been, regardless of
>> > >> accepted mores.
>>
>> > >They're wrong
>>
>=A0Basically,
>> > they believe that Christianity defines moral values for everyone.
>>
>> One other =A0problem is that they also refuse to define 'Christian
>>
>> morals'.
>>
>> --
>> William Black
>>
>> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
>> time to leave.
>
>> William Black
>>
>> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
>> time to leave.
>
>They refuse to define them but they know them when they see them!
Christian morals have changed over time and they vary amongst themselves. Is
divorce immoral? Is practicing homosexuality immoral? Is burning folks accused
of practicing witchcraft immoral? Is it immoral for inquisitors to turn over
heretics to the state knowing their punishment will be torture and death?
Daryl
May 2, 2012, 3:50:54 AM5/2/12
to
On 5/1/2012 9:36 PM, dino wrote:
> In article<68abbf15-5759-4f7a...@f5g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
http://tvmoviesforfree.com/mel/musical-movies/spanish-inquisition-the-musical-video_e3f603204.html
> In article<68abbf15-5759-4f7a...@f5g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
Is it immoral for inquisitors to turn over
> heretics to the state knowing their punishment will be torture and death?
>
Now, there were the days.
> heretics to the state knowing their punishment will be torture and death?
>
http://tvmoviesforfree.com/mel/musical-movies/spanish-inquisition-the-musical-video_e3f603204.html
Bill
May 2, 2012, 7:17:24 AM5/2/12
to
In article <95CdneFbnO-oHj3S...@supernews.com>,
>
> Son, your problem is you are unable to grasp the difference between
> "individual" and "group". You think there is one homogeneous moral
> code that everyone follows. Surprise! there is not. Your stupid
> example of blood feud is an excellent example. Again, each
> individual decides for themselves which moral values they have and
> follow. Any group moral codes are ultimately just guidelines, nothing
> more.
Well yes you buffoon. You're the one making claims about morals being
universal.
> > Your lack of experience with the world and your rather provincial
and US
> > centred views are skewing your perception of that world.
>
> We've had blood feuds in the U.S.,
It isn't part of your culture though is it.
dr...@jameford.edu says...
>
> Bill wrote:
>
> > In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLS...@supernews.com>,
> > dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >
> >>Bill wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLS...@supernews.com>,
> >>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Bill wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
> >>>>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> >>>>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> >>>>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>But morality is determined by culture.
> >>>>
> >>>>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
> >>
> >>Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
> >
> >
> > That depends.
> >
> > Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
> > considered a deadly insult in other parts.
> >
> > Chat with some bloke who follows Pashtunwali and you'll find blood feuds
> > and paying blood money are, to him, totally moral.
>
> Yeah, and there are also blokes (individuals) in Pashtunwali who
> find blood feuds immoral.
Ah, you really do need to use Wikipedia...
>
> Bill wrote:
>
> > In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLS...@supernews.com>,
> > dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >
> >>Bill wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLS...@supernews.com>,
> >>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Bill wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPS...@supernews.com>,
> >>>>>dr...@jameford.edu says...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to
> >>>>>>determine if his actions are moral, and no government
> >>>>>>or army may ever take that responsibility away.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>But morality is determined by culture.
> >>>>
> >>>>Partly, but ultimately each individual has "individual morality".
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The problem is that they vary from individual to individual.
> >>
> >>Son, that is not a problem, it is a strength (and a freedom).
> >
> >
> > That depends.
> >
> > Much that is considered 'moral' in parts of the world would be
> > considered a deadly insult in other parts.
> >
> > Chat with some bloke who follows Pashtunwali and you'll find blood feuds
> > and paying blood money are, to him, totally moral.
>
> Yeah, and there are also blokes (individuals) in Pashtunwali who
> find blood feuds immoral.
>
> Son, your problem is you are unable to grasp the difference between
> "individual" and "group". You think there is one homogeneous moral
> code that everyone follows. Surprise! there is not. Your stupid
> example of blood feud is an excellent example. Again, each
> individual decides for themselves which moral values they have and
> follow. Any group moral codes are ultimately just guidelines, nothing
> more.
universal.
> > Your lack of experience with the world and your rather provincial
and US
> > centred views are skewing your perception of that world.
>
> We've had blood feuds in the U.S.,
Bill
May 2, 2012, 7:22:04 AM5/2/12
to
In article <jnq8u...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com says...
>
> In article <MPG.2a0a93579...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
>
> In article <MPG.2a0a93579...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> >
> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>
> And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
The reality is that all borders are porous.
> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>
> And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
NickyK
May 2, 2012, 8:31:09 AM5/2/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On May 2, 7:22 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <jnq8ua0...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says...
>
>
>
> > In article <MPG.2a0a935791dd31d0989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> In article <jnq8ua0...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says...
>
>
>
> > In article <MPG.2a0a935791dd31d0989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> > >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
> > >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>
> > And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
> > U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>
> The reality is that all borders are porous.
>
> For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
> formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
> home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
> time to leave.
YAWNzzzzzzzzzzz
> > >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
> > >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>
> > And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
> > U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>
> The reality is that all borders are porous.
>
> For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
> formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
> home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
> time to leave.
dino
May 2, 2012, 8:39:25 AM5/2/12
to
In article <MPG.2a0b29371...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
posts here. If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial it is to
illegally immigrate to the U.S. from the U.K.
>
>In article <jnq8u...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com says...
>>
>>In article <MPG.2a0a93579...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>> >
>
>> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
>> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>>
>>And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
>> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>
>The reality is that all borders are porous.
>
>For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
>formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
>home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
I'm posting from alt.war.vietnam. We have a retired immigration officer who
>In article <jnq8u...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com says...
>>
>>In article <MPG.2a0a93579...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>> >
>
>> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
>> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>>
>>And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
>> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>
>The reality is that all borders are porous.
>
>For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
>formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
>home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
posts here. If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial it is to
illegally immigrate to the U.S. from the U.K.
Bill
May 2, 2012, 11:35:17 AM5/2/12
to
In article <jnr9t...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com
Tens of thousands have done it, and keep doing it.
Nobody seems to bother them because they're white and speak reasonably
good English.
The US employment system doesn't seem to bother about illegal immigrants
in the way the UK one does.
Nobody seems to bother them because they're white and speak reasonably
good English.
The US employment system doesn't seem to bother about illegal immigrants
in the way the UK one does.
Andrew Swallow
May 2, 2012, 1:21:14 PM5/2/12
to
Andrew Swallow
dino
May 2, 2012, 2:36:27 PM5/2/12
to
In article <MPG.2a0b64928...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
days you are then an illegal immigrant. You've committed a crime and if caught
you will be arrested and deported. Sure you can hide out with someone and
probably not get caught but you are not going to get a social security number
and you are not going to get a driver's license. You'll have to work illegally
for cash and hope not to get caught.
The U.S. is not the same as it was before 9/11. Even to get a visa waiver you
now have to apply on-line. This is done to keep track of everyone entering the
country. College students are even being arrested on campus for violating their
visas. You must be thinking of yesteryear.
>
>In article <jnr9t...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com
>says...
>>
>>In article <MPG.2a0b29371...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>> >
>> >In article <jnq8u...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com says...
>> >>
>>>>In article <MPG.2a0a93579...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill
>>says...
>> >> >
>> >
>> >> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
>> >> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>> >>
>>>>And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
>> >> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>> >
>> >The reality is that all borders are porous.
>> >
>> >For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
>> >formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
>> >home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
>>
>> I'm posting from alt.war.vietnam. We have a retired immigration officer who
>>posts here. If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial it is to
>> illegally immigrate to the U.S. from the U.K.
>
>Tens of thousands have done it, and keep doing it.
>
>Nobody seems to bother them because they're white and speak reasonably
>good English.
Bullshit! If you come over on the visa waiver program and stay beyond the 90
>In article <jnr9t...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com
>says...
>>
>>In article <MPG.2a0b29371...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>> >
>> >In article <jnq8u...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com says...
>> >>
>>>>In article <MPG.2a0a93579...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill
>>says...
>> >> >
>> >
>> >> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
>> >> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>> >>
>>>>And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
>> >> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>> >
>> >The reality is that all borders are porous.
>> >
>> >For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
>> >formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
>> >home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
>>
>> I'm posting from alt.war.vietnam. We have a retired immigration officer who
>>posts here. If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial it is to
>> illegally immigrate to the U.S. from the U.K.
>
>Tens of thousands have done it, and keep doing it.
>
>Nobody seems to bother them because they're white and speak reasonably
>good English.
days you are then an illegal immigrant. You've committed a crime and if caught
you will be arrested and deported. Sure you can hide out with someone and
probably not get caught but you are not going to get a social security number
and you are not going to get a driver's license. You'll have to work illegally
for cash and hope not to get caught.
The U.S. is not the same as it was before 9/11. Even to get a visa waiver you
now have to apply on-line. This is done to keep track of everyone entering the
country. College students are even being arrested on campus for violating their
visas. You must be thinking of yesteryear.
Bill
May 2, 2012, 4:17:01 PM5/2/12
to
In article <jnrur...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com
You've committed a crime and if caught
> you will be arrested and deported.
True.
How many got caught last year?
Sure you can hide out with someone and
> probably not get caught but you are not going to get a social security number
> and you are not going to get a driver's license. You'll have to work illegally
> for cash and hope not to get caught.
Like several million Mexicans...
I wonder how they manage.
> The U.S. is not the same as it was before 9/11. Even to get a visa waiver you
> now have to apply on-line. This is done to keep track of everyone entering the
> country. College students are even being arrested on campus for violating their
> visas. You must be thinking of yesteryear.
No.
As I said, there are tens of thousands of Brits in the USA illegally,
and the lack of deportations of any of your several million illegals
does rather seem to indicate that you don't care much.
says...
>
> In article <MPG.2a0b64928...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> >
> >In article <jnr9t...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com
> >says...
> >>
> >>In article <MPG.2a0b29371...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> >> >
> >> >In article <jnq8u...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com says...
> >> >>
> >>>>In article <MPG.2a0a93579...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill
> >>says...
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
> >> >> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
> >> >>
> >>>>And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
> >> >> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
> >> >
> >> >The reality is that all borders are porous.
> >> >
> >> >For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
> >> >formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
> >> >home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
> >>
> >> I'm posting from alt.war.vietnam. We have a retired immigration officer who
> >>posts here. If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial it is to
> >> illegally immigrate to the U.S. from the U.K.
> >
> >Tens of thousands have done it, and keep doing it.
> >
> >Nobody seems to bother them because they're white and speak reasonably
> >good English.
>
> Bullshit! If you come over on the visa waiver program and stay beyond the 90
> days you are then an illegal immigrant.
True.
>
> In article <MPG.2a0b64928...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> >
> >In article <jnr9t...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com
> >says...
> >>
> >>In article <MPG.2a0b29371...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> >> >
> >> >In article <jnq8u...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com says...
> >> >>
> >>>>In article <MPG.2a0a93579...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill
> >>says...
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
> >> >> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
> >> >>
> >>>>And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
> >> >> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
> >> >
> >> >The reality is that all borders are porous.
> >> >
> >> >For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
> >> >formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
> >> >home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
> >>
> >> I'm posting from alt.war.vietnam. We have a retired immigration officer who
> >>posts here. If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial it is to
> >> illegally immigrate to the U.S. from the U.K.
> >
> >Tens of thousands have done it, and keep doing it.
> >
> >Nobody seems to bother them because they're white and speak reasonably
> >good English.
>
> Bullshit! If you come over on the visa waiver program and stay beyond the 90
> days you are then an illegal immigrant.
You've committed a crime and if caught
> you will be arrested and deported.
How many got caught last year?
Sure you can hide out with someone and
> probably not get caught but you are not going to get a social security number
> and you are not going to get a driver's license. You'll have to work illegally
> for cash and hope not to get caught.
I wonder how they manage.
> The U.S. is not the same as it was before 9/11. Even to get a visa waiver you
> now have to apply on-line. This is done to keep track of everyone entering the
> country. College students are even being arrested on campus for violating their
> visas. You must be thinking of yesteryear.
As I said, there are tens of thousands of Brits in the USA illegally,
and the lack of deportations of any of your several million illegals
does rather seem to indicate that you don't care much.
NickyK
May 2, 2012, 4:42:24 PM5/2/12
to
On May 2, 11:35 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <jnr9tt01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
> says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <MPG.2a0b29371433269a989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> > >>In article <MPG.2a0a935791dd31d0989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> - Show quoted text -
YAWNzzzzzzzzzzz
> In article <jnr9tt01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
> says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <MPG.2a0b29371433269a989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> > >>In article <MPG.2a0a935791dd31d0989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> > >> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
> > >> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>
> > >>And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
> > >> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>
> > >The reality is that all borders are porous.
>
> > >For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
> > >formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
> > >home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
>
> > I'm posting from alt.war.vietnam. We have a retired immigration officer who
> > posts here. If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial it is to
> > illegally immigrate to the U.S. from the U.K.
>
> Tens of thousands have done it, and keep doing it.
>
> Nobody seems to bother them because they're white and speak reasonably
> good English.
>
> The US employment system doesn't seem to bother about illegal immigrants
> in the way the UK one does.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
> time to leave.- Hide quoted text -
> > >> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
> > >> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>
> > >>And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
> > >> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>
> > >The reality is that all borders are porous.
>
> > >For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
> > >formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
> > >home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
>
> > I'm posting from alt.war.vietnam. We have a retired immigration officer who
> > posts here. If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial it is to
> > illegally immigrate to the U.S. from the U.K.
>
> Tens of thousands have done it, and keep doing it.
>
> Nobody seems to bother them because they're white and speak reasonably
> good English.
>
> The US employment system doesn't seem to bother about illegal immigrants
> in the way the UK one does.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
>
> - Show quoted text -
YAWNzzzzzzzzzzz
NickyK
May 2, 2012, 4:42:31 PM5/2/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On May 2, 8:39 am, dino <dino_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> In article <MPG.2a0b29371433269a989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <jnq8ua0...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says...
>
> >>In article <MPG.2a0a935791dd31d0989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> In article <MPG.2a0b29371433269a989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <jnq8ua0...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says...
>
>
> >> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
> >> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>
> >>And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
> >> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>
> >The reality is that all borders are porous.
>
> >For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
> >formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
> >home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
>
> I'm posting from alt.war.vietnam. We have a retired immigration officer who
> posts here. If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial it is to
> illegally immigrate to the U.S. from the U.K.- Hide quoted text -
> >> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
> >> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>
> >>And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
> >> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>
> >The reality is that all borders are porous.
>
> >For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
> >formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
> >home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
>
> I'm posting from alt.war.vietnam. We have a retired immigration officer who
> posts here. If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial it is to
Dean
May 2, 2012, 4:43:09 PM5/2/12
to
On May 2, 11:35 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <jnr9tt01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
> says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <MPG.2a0b29371433269a989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> > >In article <jnq8ua0...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says...
>
> > >>In article <MPG.2a0a935791dd31d0989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <MPG.2a0b29371433269a989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> > >In article <jnq8ua0...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says...
>
>
> > >> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
> > >> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>
> > >>And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
> > >> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>
> > >The reality is that all borders are porous.
>
> > >For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
> > >formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
> > >home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
>
> > I'm posting from alt.war.vietnam. We have a retired immigration officer who
> > posts here. If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial it is to
> > illegally immigrate to the U.S. from the U.K.
>
> Tens of thousands have done it, and keep doing it.
>
> Nobody seems to bother them because they're white and speak reasonably
> good English.
>
> The US employment system doesn't seem to bother about illegal immigrants
> in the way the UK one does.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
> time to leave.
William, once again you are speaking without really knowing the
> > >> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
> > >> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>
> > >>And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
> > >> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>
> > >The reality is that all borders are porous.
>
> > >For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
> > >formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
> > >home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
>
> > I'm posting from alt.war.vietnam. We have a retired immigration officer who
> > posts here. If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial it is to
> > illegally immigrate to the U.S. from the U.K.
>
> Tens of thousands have done it, and keep doing it.
>
> Nobody seems to bother them because they're white and speak reasonably
> good English.
>
> The US employment system doesn't seem to bother about illegal immigrants
> in the way the UK one does.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
> time to leave.
facts. The US deported 396,906 illegal immigrants in 2011 (a
record). 91% were from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras.
The reason that % is so high is because those four countries represent
the bulk of illegal immigrants. If there were 396,000 illegal UK
citizens here, then, 99% of deportations would be British. I could
not find exact numbers for Britons deported but it was under 1000.
Plus you conveniently forget the relative sizes of the UK and the US
in terms of population and size. There's some 5 times as many
Americans as there are Brits.
Now unless you have first hand knowledge of the US Immigration system.
you should stop making assumptions.
NickyK
May 2, 2012, 4:41:56 PM5/2/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On May 2, 4:17 pm, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <jnrurb02...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
> says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <MPG.2a0b64928b492294989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
> time to leave.- Hide quoted text -
> In article <jnrurb02...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
> says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <MPG.2a0b64928b492294989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> > >In article <jnr9tt01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
> > >says...
>
> > >>In article <MPG.2a0b29371433269a989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> > >> >In article <jnq8ua0...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says...
>
> > >>>>In article <MPG.2a0a935791dd31d0989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill
> > >In article <jnr9tt01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
> > >says...
>
> > >>In article <MPG.2a0b29371433269a989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> > >> >In article <jnq8ua0...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says...
>
NickyK
May 2, 2012, 4:42:16 PM5/2/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On May 2, 2:36 pm, dino <dino_mem...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> In article <MPG.2a0b64928b492294989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <jnr9tt01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
> >says...
>
> >>In article <MPG.2a0b29371433269a989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> >> >In article <jnq8ua0...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says...
>
> >>>>In article <MPG.2a0a935791dd31d0989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill
> In article <MPG.2a0b64928b492294989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >In article <jnr9tt01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
> >says...
>
> >>In article <MPG.2a0b29371433269a989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
>
> >> >In article <jnq8ua0...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says...
>
> >>says...
>
> >> >> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
> >> >> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>
> >>>>And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
> >> >> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>
> >> >The reality is that all borders are porous.
>
> >> >For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
> >> >formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
> >> >home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
>
> >> I'm posting from alt.war.vietnam. We have a retired immigration officer who
> >>posts here. If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial it is to
> >> illegally immigrate to the U.S. from the U.K.
>
> >Tens of thousands have done it, and keep doing it.
>
> >Nobody seems to bother them because they're white and speak reasonably
> >good English.
>
> Bullshit! If you come over on the visa waiver program and stay beyond the 90
> days you are then an illegal immigrant. You've committed a crime and if caught
> you will be arrested and deported. Sure you can hide out with someone and
> probably not get caught but you are not going to get a social security number
> and you are not going to get a driver's license. You'll have to work illegally
> for cash and hope not to get caught.
>
> The U.S. is not the same as it was before 9/11. Even to get a visa waiver you
> now have to apply on-line. This is done to keep track of everyone entering the
> country. College students are even being arrested on campus for violating their
> visas. You must be thinking of yesteryear.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> >Ah, you're sweet, especially for someone who, I think, lives in a
> >> >> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>
> >>>>And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. Try immigrating to the
> >> >> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>
> >> >The reality is that all borders are porous.
>
> >> >For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. There's no
> >> >formal visa requirement for me, I just go as a tourist and don't come
> >> >home, as several tens of thousands have done already.
>
> >> I'm posting from alt.war.vietnam. We have a retired immigration officer who
> >>posts here. If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial it is to
> >> illegally immigrate to the U.S. from the U.K.
>
> >Tens of thousands have done it, and keep doing it.
>
> >Nobody seems to bother them because they're white and speak reasonably
> >good English.
>
> Bullshit! If you come over on the visa waiver program and stay beyond the 90
> days you are then an illegal immigrant. You've committed a crime and if caught
> you will be arrested and deported. Sure you can hide out with someone and
> probably not get caught but you are not going to get a social security number
> and you are not going to get a driver's license. You'll have to work illegally
> for cash and hope not to get caught.
>
> The U.S. is not the same as it was before 9/11. Even to get a visa waiver you
> now have to apply on-line. This is done to keep track of everyone entering the
> country. College students are even being arrested on campus for violating their
Bill
May 2, 2012, 6:42:59 PM5/2/12
to
In article <cd2fa504-b72b-44a3-8a80-ff9aa35a07b1
@d8g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>, dama...@gmail.com says...
How many illegals are there?
I've been told it's about 12 million.
I'm also informed that about half the illegals in the USA are visa
overstayers, so not Mexicans coming over the border but visa
overstayers.
Now an organisation called 'The Pew Hispanic Centre' says that about 6%
of all illegal immigrants to the USA are from Europe, and that's about
750,000 people.
Now, how many Brits do you think there are in there?
@d8g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>, dama...@gmail.com says...
I've been told it's about 12 million.
I'm also informed that about half the illegals in the USA are visa
overstayers, so not Mexicans coming over the border but visa
overstayers.
Now an organisation called 'The Pew Hispanic Centre' says that about 6%
of all illegal immigrants to the USA are from Europe, and that's about
750,000 people.
Now, how many Brits do you think there are in there?
Dennis
May 3, 2012, 1:16:20 AM5/3/12
to
Ian B MacLure wrote:
> Dennis wrote :
themselves to abrogate their oath to Adolf Hitler.
> Mind you they did execute one of their Kamp Kommandants
> for cruelty.
Hmmmm! Who, and under what circumstances?
Dennis
> Dennis wrote :
>
>> Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
>>
>>> Each person has an individual responsibility to
>>> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>>> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>>
>> No one denies that.
>>
>> So far as that goes:
>>
>> "You do not have to obey criminal orders."
>>
>> - in the paybook of WWII Wehrmacht soldiers
>
> And just in case Vinnie doesn't get it.
> Much of what was legal in the Third Reich constituted
> crimes against humanity.
Perhaps not openly. AIRC the July 20 Plotters used this rationale for
>> Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D. wrote:
>>
>>> Each person has an individual responsibility to
>>> determine if his actions are moral, and no government
>>> or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>>
>> No one denies that.
>>
>> So far as that goes:
>>
>> "You do not have to obey criminal orders."
>>
>> - in the paybook of WWII Wehrmacht soldiers
>
> And just in case Vinnie doesn't get it.
> Much of what was legal in the Third Reich constituted
> crimes against humanity.
themselves to abrogate their oath to Adolf Hitler.
> Mind you they did execute one of their Kamp Kommandants
> for cruelty.
Dennis
NickyK
May 3, 2012, 8:18:37 AM5/3/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On May 2, 6:42 pm, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <cd2fa504-b72b-44a3-8a80-ff9aa35a07b1
> @d8g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>, damark...@gmail.com says...
> time to leave.- Hide quoted text -
> In article <cd2fa504-b72b-44a3-8a80-ff9aa35a07b1
> @d8g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>, damark...@gmail.com says...
Dean
May 3, 2012, 12:49:50 PM5/3/12
to
On May 2, 6:42 pm, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <cd2fa504-b72b-44a3-8a80-ff9aa35a07b1
> @d8g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>, damark...@gmail.com says...
So you've "been told it's about 12 million"?
And you are "informed" that half the illegals are over stayers?
I refuse to accept that as hard fact.
> In article <cd2fa504-b72b-44a3-8a80-ff9aa35a07b1
> @d8g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>, damark...@gmail.com says...
And you are "informed" that half the illegals are over stayers?
I refuse to accept that as hard fact.
Bill
May 3, 2012, 4:04:44 PM5/3/12
to
In article <b854570a-070f-40c3-bf0e-9613486b87d4
@d8g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>, dama...@gmail.com says...
Well plenty of people who are in a position to say I'm right also say
I'm right.
Here's a few for you to take my argument forwards.
http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/17.pdf
http://www.cis.org/trends_and_enforcement
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/ois_ill_pe_
2009.pdf
Here's some interesting stuff about how they entered.
http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/19.pdf
Oh look, lot's of visa overstayers there...
Now you may not accept their figures as hard facts, they almost all say
the illegal immigrant levels run at something over 10 million, but you
have to accept that they sound a lot more accurate than your 'I know a
bloke who used to be an immigration officer', which isn't actually a
measurement anyone outside the pub doors will accept.
@d8g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>, dama...@gmail.com says...
I'm right.
Here's a few for you to take my argument forwards.
http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/17.pdf
http://www.cis.org/trends_and_enforcement
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/ois_ill_pe_
2009.pdf
Here's some interesting stuff about how they entered.
http://pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/19.pdf
Oh look, lot's of visa overstayers there...
Now you may not accept their figures as hard facts, they almost all say
the illegal immigrant levels run at something over 10 million, but you
have to accept that they sound a lot more accurate than your 'I know a
bloke who used to be an immigration officer', which isn't actually a
measurement anyone outside the pub doors will accept.
dino
May 3, 2012, 11:03:42 PM5/3/12
to
In article <cd2fa504-b72b-44a3...@d8g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>,
Dean says...
>l says...
>>
>> > >In article <jnq8ua0...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says.=
>..
>>
>> > >>In article <MPG.2a0a935791dd31d0989...@news.eternal-september.org>, B=
>ill says...
>>
>> > >> >Ah, =A0you're sweet, =A0especially for someone who, =A0I think, liv=
> no
>> > >formal visa requirement for me, =A0I just go as a tourist and don't co=
>me
>> > >home, =A0as several tens of thousands have done already.
>>
>> > I'm posting from alt.war.vietnam. =A0We have a retired immigration offi=
>cer who
>> > posts here. =A0If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial=
ignorant of the U.S. immigrant situation. He hasn't a clue. Let's see if this
message goes through...
Dean says...
>
>On May 2, 11:35=A0am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In article <jnr9tt01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
>> says...
>>
>> > In article <MPG.2a0b29371433269a989...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bil=
>On May 2, 11:35=A0am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In article <jnr9tt01...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com
>> says...
>>
>l says...
>>
>> > >In article <jnq8ua0...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_mem...@newsguy.com says.=
>..
>>
>> > >>In article <MPG.2a0a935791dd31d0989...@news.eternal-september.org>, B=
>ill says...
>>
>> > >> >Ah, =A0you're sweet, =A0especially for someone who, =A0I think, liv=
>es in a
>> > >> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>>
>> > >>And you get your fair share coming across the Channel. =A0Try immigra=
>> > >> >country with several million illegal immigrants.
>>
>ting to the
>> > >> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>>
>> > >The reality is that all borders are porous.
>>
>> > >For me illegal immigration to the USA is a trivial problem. =A0There's=
>> > >> U.S. You won't make it without extraordinary circumstances.
>>
>> > >The reality is that all borders are porous.
>>
> no
>> > >formal visa requirement for me, =A0I just go as a tourist and don't co=
>me
>> > >home, =A0as several tens of thousands have done already.
>>
>> > I'm posting from alt.war.vietnam. =A0We have a retired immigration offi=
>cer who
>> > posts here. =A0If he reads this, he may may not agree about how trivial=
> it is to
>> > illegally immigrate to the U.S. from the U.K.
>>
>> Tens of thousands have done it, and keep doing it.
>>
>> Nobody seems to bother them because they're white and speak reasonably
>> good English.
>>
>> The US employment system doesn't seem to bother about illegal immigrants
>> in the way the UK one does.
>>
>> --
>> William Black
>>
>> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
>> time to leave.
>
>William, once again you are speaking without really knowing the
>facts. The US deported 396,906 illegal immigrants in 2011 (a
>record). 91% were from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras.
>The reason that % is so high is because those four countries represent
>the bulk of illegal immigrants. If there were 396,000 illegal UK
>citizens here, then, 99% of deportations would be British. I could
>not find exact numbers for Britons deported but it was under 1000.
>Plus you conveniently forget the relative sizes of the UK and the US
>in terms of population and size. There's some 5 times as many
>Americans as there are Brits.
>
>Now unless you have first hand knowledge of the US Immigration system.
>you should stop making assumptions.
I replied to his post several times but somehow it won't go through. Yes, he is
>> > illegally immigrate to the U.S. from the U.K.
>>
>> Tens of thousands have done it, and keep doing it.
>>
>> Nobody seems to bother them because they're white and speak reasonably
>> good English.
>>
>> The US employment system doesn't seem to bother about illegal immigrants
>> in the way the UK one does.
>>
>> --
>> William Black
>>
>> When you hear the words 'Our people are our greatest asset' then it's
>> time to leave.
>
>William, once again you are speaking without really knowing the
>facts. The US deported 396,906 illegal immigrants in 2011 (a
>record). 91% were from Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras.
>The reason that % is so high is because those four countries represent
>the bulk of illegal immigrants. If there were 396,000 illegal UK
>citizens here, then, 99% of deportations would be British. I could
>not find exact numbers for Britons deported but it was under 1000.
>Plus you conveniently forget the relative sizes of the UK and the US
>in terms of population and size. There's some 5 times as many
>Americans as there are Brits.
>
>Now unless you have first hand knowledge of the US Immigration system.
>you should stop making assumptions.
ignorant of the U.S. immigrant situation. He hasn't a clue. Let's see if this
message goes through...
dino
May 3, 2012, 11:30:21 PM5/3/12
to
In article <MPG.2a0bc8ca6...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
So, you're just guessing. Nothing wrong with that. I guess that you don't have
a clue.
a clue.
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
May 4, 2012, 4:43:50 AM5/4/12
to
the topic to an obscure moral code, so I did read Wikipedia.
>>Son, your problem is you are unable to grasp the difference between
>>"individual" and "group". You think there is one homogeneous moral
>>code that everyone follows. Surprise! there is not. Your stupid
>>example of blood feud is an excellent example. Again, each
>>individual decides for themselves which moral values they have and
>>follow. Any group moral codes are ultimately just guidelines, nothing
>>more.
>
>
> Well yes you buffoon. You're the one making claims about morals being
> universal.
feud as being a moral belief held by all of Pashtunwali, but now you
have no where to go but lie. As usual for you with me.
;-)
Dean
May 4, 2012, 7:56:06 AM5/4/12
to
On May 3, 4:04 pm, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <b854570a-070f-40c3-bf0e-9613486b87d4
Nice references which I shall look at. But you are in error in
claiming that I said "I know a bloke who used to be an immigration
officer".
By the way, isn't it refreshing to have a civil discussion every now
and then?
> In article <b854570a-070f-40c3-bf0e-9613486b87d4
claiming that I said "I know a bloke who used to be an immigration
officer".
By the way, isn't it refreshing to have a civil discussion every now
and then?
Dean
May 4, 2012, 7:57:18 AM5/4/12
to
On May 4, 4:43 am, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@jameford.edu>
wrote:
> Bill wrote:
> > In article <95CdneFbnO-oHj3SnZ2dnUVZ_sWdn...@supernews.com>,
> > d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >>Bill wrote:
>
> >>>In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdn...@supernews.com>,
> >>>d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >>>>Bill wrote:
>
> >>>>>In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLSnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@supernews.com>,
> >>>>>d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >>>>>>Bill wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
> >>>>>>>d...@jameford.edu says...
But Vinnie, every time I point out the hypocrisy of you calling
someone a liar, you conveniently ignore it.
wrote:
> Bill wrote:
> > In article <95CdneFbnO-oHj3SnZ2dnUVZ_sWdn...@supernews.com>,
> > d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >>Bill wrote:
>
> >>>In article <ntSdnSawfasevwLSnZ2dnUVZ_qqdn...@supernews.com>,
> >>>d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >>>>Bill wrote:
>
> >>>>>In article <5-edncWLusWsjQLSnZ2dnUVZ_gmdn...@supernews.com>,
> >>>>>d...@jameford.edu says...
>
> >>>>>>Bill wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>In article <EdCdnYkObNS7cgPSnZ2dnUVZ_rudn...@supernews.com>,
> >>>>>>>d...@jameford.edu says...
someone a liar, you conveniently ignore it.
Eugene Griessel
May 4, 2012, 8:52:04 AM5/4/12
to
Op Fri, 4 May 2012 04:57:18 -0700 (PDT), Dean <dama...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>But Vinnie, every time I point out the hypocrisy of you calling
>someone a liar, you conveniently ignore it.
Vinnie, having conclusively proved to the world his deviousness seems
to be hell-bent on proving his ignorance.
Eugene L Griessel
A taxpayer is someone who does not have to take a civil
service exam in order to work for the government.
wrote:
>But Vinnie, every time I point out the hypocrisy of you calling
>someone a liar, you conveniently ignore it.
to be hell-bent on proving his ignorance.
Eugene L Griessel
A taxpayer is someone who does not have to take a civil
service exam in order to work for the government.
NickyK
May 4, 2012, 9:18:41 AM5/4/12
to
Why this is marked as abuse? It has been marked as abuse.
Report not abuse
On May 4, 8:52 am, Eugene Griessel <eug...@dynagen.co.za> wrote:
> Op Fri, 4 May 2012 04:57:18 -0700 (PDT), Dean <damark...@gmail.com>
> Op Fri, 4 May 2012 04:57:18 -0700 (PDT), Dean <damark...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >But Vinnie, every time I point out the hypocrisy of you calling
> >someone a liar, you conveniently ignore it.
>
> Vinnie, having conclusively proved to the world his deviousness seems
> to be hell-bent on proving his ignorance.
>
> Eugene L Griessel
>
> A taxpayer is someone who does not have to take a civil
> service exam in order to work for the government.
YAWNzzzzzzzzz
>
> >But Vinnie, every time I point out the hypocrisy of you calling
> >someone a liar, you conveniently ignore it.
>
> Vinnie, having conclusively proved to the world his deviousness seems
> to be hell-bent on proving his ignorance.
>
> Eugene L Griessel
>
> A taxpayer is someone who does not have to take a civil
> service exam in order to work for the government.
Bill
May 4, 2012, 10:13:50 AM5/4/12
to
In article <qN-dnUp5Pqo3Cz7S...@supernews.com>,
dr...@jameford.edu says...
'Pushtanwalli' (I know, spellings vary) isn't a group of people, it's
a system of behaviour.
dr...@jameford.edu says...
>
>
> You're a liar, son, as you were attempting to present the blood
> feud as being a moral belief held by all of Pashtunwali, but now you
> have no where to go but lie. As usual for you with me.
Oh dear, what dreadful source have you been using this time.
>
> You're a liar, son, as you were attempting to present the blood
> feud as being a moral belief held by all of Pashtunwali, but now you
> have no where to go but lie. As usual for you with me.
'Pushtanwalli' (I know, spellings vary) isn't a group of people, it's
a system of behaviour.
Bill
May 4, 2012, 10:15:30 AM5/4/12
to
In article <jnvig...@drn.newsguy.com>, dino_...@newsguy.com
says...
Look, they're illegal, their numbers are unknown because of that.
The bast anyone can do is guess.
However the sources I gave give guesses that are backed by what few
facts are available.
says...
The bast anyone can do is guess.
However the sources I gave give guesses that are backed by what few
facts are available.
Bill
May 4, 2012, 10:16:31 AM5/4/12
to
In article <2f819b96-0eaf-41df-bc39-e0bf86986046
@n22g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, dama...@gmail.com says...
@n22g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, dama...@gmail.com says...
>
> By the way, isn't it refreshing to have a civil discussion every now
> and then?
'Dino' is busy trying to lower the tone, but yes, it is.
> By the way, isn't it refreshing to have a civil discussion every now
> and then?
dino
May 4, 2012, 2:41:34 PM5/4/12
to
In article <MPG.2a0df4e1b...@news.eternal-september.org>, Bill says...
If you ever decide to take a walk in the woods, do carry a compass because
you're great at going in circles. Originally you said anyone can leave their
country. As a joke I said unless they're trying to get an F-1 or H1-B Visa to
the U.S. Then you started making claims that there are tens of thousands of
illegal Brits in the U.S. and they are still coming in droves over here.
I said our laws and our enforcement has changed considerably withing the past
few years and it is now easier to find illegal immigrants who overstay their
Visas. Then you wondered why or how the Mexicans are so successful at living
here illegally. The reason they are successful is because they do not have a
driving license or social security number and live with dozens of others in
little trailers (caravans) or in vans or buses under squalor conditions.
Your comment about Homeland Security not being concerned about English speaking
non-blacks living illegally here is just not true. My advice to you is to write
about something in which you have knowledge instead of believing everything you
hear on BBC.
you're great at going in circles. Originally you said anyone can leave their
country. As a joke I said unless they're trying to get an F-1 or H1-B Visa to
the U.S. Then you started making claims that there are tens of thousands of
illegal Brits in the U.S. and they are still coming in droves over here.
I said our laws and our enforcement has changed considerably withing the past
few years and it is now easier to find illegal immigrants who overstay their
Visas. Then you wondered why or how the Mexicans are so successful at living
here illegally. The reason they are successful is because they do not have a
driving license or social security number and live with dozens of others in
little trailers (caravans) or in vans or buses under squalor conditions.
Your comment about Homeland Security not being concerned about English speaking
non-blacks living illegally here is just not true. My advice to you is to write
about something in which you have knowledge instead of believing everything you
hear on BBC.
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
May 4, 2012, 7:35:27 PM5/4/12
to
Bill wrote:
> In article <qN-dnUp5Pqo3Cz7S...@supernews.com>,
> dr...@jameford.edu says...
>
>
>>You're a liar, son, as you were attempting to present the blood
>>feud as being a moral belief held by all of Pashtunwali, but now you
>>have no where to go but lie. As usual for you with me.
>
>
> Oh dear, what dreadful source have you been using this time.
>
> 'Pushtanwalli' (I know, spellings vary) isn't a group of people, it's
> a system of behaviour.
moral code, ethical code...even your slightly goofy system of behaviour
> In article <qN-dnUp5Pqo3Cz7S...@supernews.com>,
> dr...@jameford.edu says...
>
>
>>You're a liar, son, as you were attempting to present the blood
>>feud as being a moral belief held by all of Pashtunwali, but now you
>>have no where to go but lie. As usual for you with me.
>
>
> Oh dear, what dreadful source have you been using this time.
>
> 'Pushtanwalli' (I know, spellings vary) isn't a group of people, it's
> a system of behaviour.
and it *is* a group of people, son...the group that lives by that code
my you are naive son...you don't even understand "group"
;-)
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