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Re: Steve Jobs' yacht - seaworthy?
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Bill
Oct 30, 2012, 3:06:48 PM10/30/12
to
On 30 Oct 2012 18:52:27 GMT, Juergen Nieveler
<juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>A Dutch blogger claims to have taken pictures of the yacht built for
>Steve Jobs (which was apparently finished a tad bit late...):
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/29/steve_jobs_yacht_venus/
>
>Question to the experts - would this boat be actually seaworthy in
>anything but a calm sea?
>
>The vertical bow and vertical flat windows don't really look like
>something you'd see on an oceangoing vessel - and the huge rectangular
>windows below the main deck remind me more of river cruise vessels you
>see on the Rhine...
How long will those iMac's on the bridge last before breaking their
stands in a heavy sea?
I notice it isn't being sailed from Europe to the US, it's being
shipped over...
Like just about every device Jobs was involved in after Wozniac parted
company with him, it's an expensive triumph of form over function.
<juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>A Dutch blogger claims to have taken pictures of the yacht built for
>Steve Jobs (which was apparently finished a tad bit late...):
>http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/29/steve_jobs_yacht_venus/
>
>Question to the experts - would this boat be actually seaworthy in
>anything but a calm sea?
>
>The vertical bow and vertical flat windows don't really look like
>something you'd see on an oceangoing vessel - and the huge rectangular
>windows below the main deck remind me more of river cruise vessels you
>see on the Rhine...
How long will those iMac's on the bridge last before breaking their
stands in a heavy sea?
I notice it isn't being sailed from Europe to the US, it's being
shipped over...
Like just about every device Jobs was involved in after Wozniac parted
company with him, it's an expensive triumph of form over function.
Message has been deleted
Jeffrey Hamilton
Oct 30, 2012, 3:23:30 PM10/30/12
to
Juergen Nieveler wrote:
> A Dutch blogger claims to have taken pictures of the yacht built for
> Steve Jobs (which was apparently finished a tad bit late...):
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/29/steve_jobs_yacht_venus/
>
> Question to the experts - would this boat be actually seaworthy in
> anything but a calm sea?
>
> The vertical bow and vertical flat windows don't really look like
> something you'd see on an oceangoing vessel - and the huge rectangular
> windows below the main deck remind me more of river cruise vessels you
> see on the Rhine...
Wow, that is one strange looking beastie of a boat, isn't it. ? I get the
> A Dutch blogger claims to have taken pictures of the yacht built for
> Steve Jobs (which was apparently finished a tad bit late...):
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/29/steve_jobs_yacht_venus/
>
> Question to the experts - would this boat be actually seaworthy in
> anything but a calm sea?
>
> The vertical bow and vertical flat windows don't really look like
> something you'd see on an oceangoing vessel - and the huge rectangular
> windows below the main deck remind me more of river cruise vessels you
> see on the Rhine...
impression feeling this one was intended to be moored up much of the time,
as a floating luxury hotel/restaurant, with an occasional foray into calm
open ocean waters.
cheers....Jeff
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
Oct 30, 2012, 3:32:45 PM10/30/12
to
In article <XnsA0FCC9A17741...@nieveler.org>,
Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
> A Dutch blogger claims to have taken pictures of the yacht built for
> Steve Jobs (which was apparently finished a tad bit late...):
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/29/steve_jobs_yacht_venus/
>
> Question to the experts - would this boat be actually seaworthy in
> anything but a calm sea?
>
> The vertical bow and vertical flat windows don't really look like
> something you'd see on an oceangoing vessel - and the huge rectangular
> windows below the main deck remind me more of river cruise vessels you
> see on the Rhine...
kind of looks like a stylized dreadnought
> A Dutch blogger claims to have taken pictures of the yacht built for
> Steve Jobs (which was apparently finished a tad bit late...):
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/29/steve_jobs_yacht_venus/
>
> Question to the experts - would this boat be actually seaworthy in
> anything but a calm sea?
>
> The vertical bow and vertical flat windows don't really look like
> something you'd see on an oceangoing vessel - and the huge rectangular
> windows below the main deck remind me more of river cruise vessels you
> see on the Rhine...
tutall
Oct 30, 2012, 3:54:40 PM10/30/12
to
And we have that whole bay to sail on. Lots of nice destinations
nearby with Monterey, Santa Barbara, Morro Bay and whatnot. The west
coast (coastal waters) doesn't see much in the way of heavy seas very
often, so most of the year should be safe from Vancouver to Cabo.
Look for this boat when watching America's Cup racing, wouldn't be
suprised to see it out there to watch the races from.
John Szalay
Oct 30, 2012, 4:09:54 PM10/30/12
to
Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote in
news:XnsA0FCC9A17741...@nieveler.org:
> A Dutch blogger claims to have taken pictures of the yacht built for
> Steve Jobs (which was apparently finished a tad bit late...):
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/29/steve_jobs_yacht_venus/
>
> Question to the experts - would this boat be actually seaworthy in
> anything but a calm sea?
>
> The vertical bow and vertical flat windows don't really look like
> something you'd see on an oceangoing vessel - and the huge rectangular
> windows below the main deck remind me more of river cruise vessels you
> see on the Rhine...
>
"a Jacuzzi on the top of the craft and two floors of superstructure above
the deck area."
IMHO:
seems rather top heavy , with the weight of all the water in the Jacuzzi
that high would make it rather unstable in anything other than a calm
sea.
large "sail area" as well.. would be a real pain in any cross wind..
probably best as a party boat in the marina . my 2¢
news:XnsA0FCC9A17741...@nieveler.org:
> A Dutch blogger claims to have taken pictures of the yacht built for
> Steve Jobs (which was apparently finished a tad bit late...):
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/29/steve_jobs_yacht_venus/
>
> Question to the experts - would this boat be actually seaworthy in
> anything but a calm sea?
>
> The vertical bow and vertical flat windows don't really look like
> something you'd see on an oceangoing vessel - and the huge rectangular
> windows below the main deck remind me more of river cruise vessels you
> see on the Rhine...
>
the deck area."
IMHO:
seems rather top heavy , with the weight of all the water in the Jacuzzi
that high would make it rather unstable in anything other than a calm
sea.
large "sail area" as well.. would be a real pain in any cross wind..
probably best as a party boat in the marina . my 2¢
peter skelton
Oct 30, 2012, 4:10:32 PM10/30/12
to
"Juergen Nieveler" wrote in message
news:XnsA0FCCD84411B...@nieveler.org...
Bill <black...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I notice it isn't being sailed from Europe to the US,
> it's being
> shipped over...
>With an all-aluminium hull, would you trust it to make it
>across the
Atlantic in winter?
>Also, in typical jobsian fashion, it's small - much smaller
>than all
those other billionaire mega-yachts.
Apparently its name is Venus, clearly it was designed for
North Atlantic service
news:XnsA0FCCD84411B...@nieveler.org...
Bill <black...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I notice it isn't being sailed from Europe to the US,
> it's being
> shipped over...
>across the
Atlantic in winter?
>Also, in typical jobsian fashion, it's small - much smaller
>than all
those other billionaire mega-yachts.
Apparently its name is Venus, clearly it was designed for
North Atlantic service
Andrew Swallow
Oct 30, 2012, 4:27:10 PM10/30/12
to
Andrew Swallow
Jeffrey Hamilton
Oct 30, 2012, 5:34:49 PM10/30/12
to
cheers....Jeff
Jeffrey Hamilton
Oct 30, 2012, 5:39:38 PM10/30/12
to
platforn too.
All you need is LOT$ of CA$H and all this can be yours too, for a day of
exquisite enjoyment.
cheers....Jeff
Jeffrey Hamilton
Oct 30, 2012, 5:44:06 PM10/30/12
to
guarantee it's *notoriety*, of course. "Shaken' not stirred", is the order
of the day, all ahead slow....
cheers....Jeff
Dan
Oct 30, 2012, 6:16:28 PM10/30/12
to
On 10/30/2012 12:06 PM, Bill wrote:
> Like just about every device Jobs was involved in after Wozniac parted
> company with him, it's an expensive triumph of form over function.
Name one...
> Like just about every device Jobs was involved in after Wozniac parted
> company with him, it's an expensive triumph of form over function.
Bill
Oct 30, 2012, 7:09:28 PM10/30/12
to
Expensive, stylish and none of them do anything their much cheaper
rivals don't do.
Derek Lyons
Oct 30, 2012, 7:28:41 PM10/30/12
to
Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>Bill <black...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I notice it isn't being sailed from Europe to the US, it's being
>> shipped over...
Which is pretty standard actually, saves paying a crew until she
arrives where she'll be in service. The heavy lift companies have
dedicated yacht haulers, and use their bigger vessels when not
required elsewhere.
>With an all-aluminium hull, would you trust it to make it across the
>Atlantic in winter?
Properly built, yes.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
>Bill <black...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I notice it isn't being sailed from Europe to the US, it's being
>> shipped over...
arrives where she'll be in service. The heavy lift companies have
dedicated yacht haulers, and use their bigger vessels when not
required elsewhere.
>With an all-aluminium hull, would you trust it to make it across the
>Atlantic in winter?
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
tutall
Oct 30, 2012, 10:34:32 PM10/30/12
to
On Oct 30, 4:09 pm, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
availablility of software had been comparatively poor, and the
workplace had, note "had" usually been MS platform dependent, office
suite and whatnot. Also more utilities, games and flexibility.
But, my wife has a tablet , son a 6 year old laptop, the in-laws have
a decade old Mac and have observed them, and others.
Hard not to living in the middle of it all here. Hell, my father was
friends with Steve Wozniak's and knew Steve (by sight) as a teen. I
think we still have a gadget he made for his father's friends. (a
random number generator, used for table gaming)
However, your price/performance critique is now dated at least a
decade ago. There is still some premium, much less these days, and the
trade off is ease of use, which for non users is easy to dismiss.
Computer illiterate grandmothers can use Apple with hardly any
training.
Setting up a new PC is still not that easy.
Some of their other successes are well deserved and I usually sense
jealousy in such scorn. What you don't seem to understand is that
Apple makes technology easy, so easy it's a bit magical to people.
Stupid, but true. Even tech people can fall in love with some of their
products, so it's not just the ignorati.
My next PC will be Intel/Windows as that's what I know, but looking
down at Apple and it's users seems unproductive.
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 15:16:28 -0700, Dan <dnada...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On 10/30/2012 12:06 PM, Bill wrote:
>
> >> Like just about every device Jobs was involved in after Wozniac parted
> >> company with him, it's an expensive triumph of form over function.
>
> >Name one...
>
> iMac, iPod, iPad, iPhone, and on and on and on...
>
> Expensive, stylish and none of them do anything their much cheaper
> rivals don't do.
Am no fanboi, haver never owned or used an Apple, mostly as the
> >On 10/30/2012 12:06 PM, Bill wrote:
>
> >> Like just about every device Jobs was involved in after Wozniac parted
> >> company with him, it's an expensive triumph of form over function.
>
> >Name one...
>
> iMac, iPod, iPad, iPhone, and on and on and on...
>
> Expensive, stylish and none of them do anything their much cheaper
> rivals don't do.
availablility of software had been comparatively poor, and the
workplace had, note "had" usually been MS platform dependent, office
suite and whatnot. Also more utilities, games and flexibility.
But, my wife has a tablet , son a 6 year old laptop, the in-laws have
a decade old Mac and have observed them, and others.
Hard not to living in the middle of it all here. Hell, my father was
friends with Steve Wozniak's and knew Steve (by sight) as a teen. I
think we still have a gadget he made for his father's friends. (a
random number generator, used for table gaming)
However, your price/performance critique is now dated at least a
decade ago. There is still some premium, much less these days, and the
trade off is ease of use, which for non users is easy to dismiss.
Computer illiterate grandmothers can use Apple with hardly any
training.
Setting up a new PC is still not that easy.
Some of their other successes are well deserved and I usually sense
jealousy in such scorn. What you don't seem to understand is that
Apple makes technology easy, so easy it's a bit magical to people.
Stupid, but true. Even tech people can fall in love with some of their
products, so it's not just the ignorati.
My next PC will be Intel/Windows as that's what I know, but looking
down at Apple and it's users seems unproductive.
Mark Borgerson
Oct 31, 2012, 1:51:31 AM10/31/12
to
In article <e29098tt26qgcidr7...@4ax.com>,
black...@gmail.com says...
Well----not if the function is to make money for Apple!
Mark Borgerson
black...@gmail.com says...
Mark Borgerson
Mark Borgerson
Oct 31, 2012, 2:07:03 AM10/31/12
to
In article <9d22d280-fb25-437b-b617-3126b2b38c77
@o5g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>, tut...@hotmail.com says...
LOL! "The west coast (coastal waters) doesn't see much in the way
of heavy seas". Why do you think the US Coast Guard does
motor lifeboat training off the mouth of the Columbia River
between Oregon and Washington?
The West Coast of the US often has wind waves and swells that
match or exceed anything off the US East or Gulf coasts. After all,
we have an exposed coastline with thousands of miles of fetch to
build those swells. I've spent weeks at sea on research vessels
off the US West coast. It can be really rough and there are only
a few harbors not protected by very dangerous bars--the underwater kind
at harbor entrances---well, except for San Franciso perhaps ;-)
A few weeks ago I spent a week up in Alaska helping people
from the Naval Research Laboratory set up instruments off
Southeast Alaska. They are interested in measuring energy
transfer in breaking waves. They didn't pick the Gulf or
Atlantic coasts---which are much closer to their base
in Mississippi. They picked the US Pacific coast. Do you think
that might be a clue?
If you still doubt that the West Coast has heavy seas,
go see the movie "Chasing Mavericks"
>
> Look for this boat when watching America's Cup racing, wouldn't be
> suprised to see it out there to watch the races from.
If I had a boat with those windows and lived in the Bay area,
I'd be out there too.
Mark Borgerson
@o5g2000pbd.googlegroups.com>, tut...@hotmail.com says...
of heavy seas". Why do you think the US Coast Guard does
motor lifeboat training off the mouth of the Columbia River
between Oregon and Washington?
The West Coast of the US often has wind waves and swells that
match or exceed anything off the US East or Gulf coasts. After all,
we have an exposed coastline with thousands of miles of fetch to
build those swells. I've spent weeks at sea on research vessels
off the US West coast. It can be really rough and there are only
a few harbors not protected by very dangerous bars--the underwater kind
at harbor entrances---well, except for San Franciso perhaps ;-)
A few weeks ago I spent a week up in Alaska helping people
from the Naval Research Laboratory set up instruments off
Southeast Alaska. They are interested in measuring energy
transfer in breaking waves. They didn't pick the Gulf or
Atlantic coasts---which are much closer to their base
in Mississippi. They picked the US Pacific coast. Do you think
that might be a clue?
If you still doubt that the West Coast has heavy seas,
go see the movie "Chasing Mavericks"
>
> Look for this boat when watching America's Cup racing, wouldn't be
> suprised to see it out there to watch the races from.
I'd be out there too.
Mark Borgerson
Mark Borgerson
Oct 31, 2012, 2:11:14 AM10/31/12
to
In article <XnsA0FCA48C0B3A...@216.196.97.142>, John Szalay
says...
A modest-sized hot tub holds only about 300 gallons or a bit
over a ton of water. That's not a lot of weight, especially
if the rest of the superstructure is light weight. In any
kind of bad weather, you just drain the thing and refill
it later.
On a larger scale, lots of cruise ships have pools on the 4th or
5th deck. They get a bit sloppy and are usually closed down
when the ships are in the open seas on the Alaska cruises
when the swell kicks up.
Mark Borgerson
says...
over a ton of water. That's not a lot of weight, especially
if the rest of the superstructure is light weight. In any
kind of bad weather, you just drain the thing and refill
it later.
On a larger scale, lots of cruise ships have pools on the 4th or
5th deck. They get a bit sloppy and are usually closed down
when the ships are in the open seas on the Alaska cruises
when the swell kicks up.
Mark Borgerson
dott.Piergiorgio
Oct 31, 2012, 9:02:59 AM10/31/12
to
Il 30/10/2012 20:54, tutall ha scritto:
> And we have that whole bay to sail on. Lots of nice destinations
> nearby with Monterey, Santa Barbara, Morro Bay and whatnot. The west
> coast (coastal waters) doesn't see much in the way of heavy seas very
> often, so most of the year should be safe from Vancouver to Cabo.
well, it's the same coastline where happen the most embarassing USN
> And we have that whole bay to sail on. Lots of nice destinations
> nearby with Monterey, Santa Barbara, Morro Bay and whatnot. The west
> coast (coastal waters) doesn't see much in the way of heavy seas very
> often, so most of the year should be safe from Vancouver to Cabo.
shipwreck (mass-wreck of mass-production DDs...)
and the warm and beautiful waters of the Med are actually more dangerous
for leasure ships unfit for sea, even if the skipper known his Art (I
refer to the brief but sudden & violent summer storms)....
Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.
tutall
Oct 31, 2012, 9:35:35 AM10/31/12
to
On Oct 30, 11:06 pm, Mark Borgerson <mborger...@comcast.net> wrote:
> LOL! "The west coast (coastal waters) doesn't see much in the way
> of heavy seas". Why do you think the US Coast Guard does
> motor lifeboat training off the mouth of the Columbia River
> between Oregon and Washington?
Because of the tides and currents?
> LOL! "The west coast (coastal waters) doesn't see much in the way
> of heavy seas". Why do you think the US Coast Guard does
> motor lifeboat training off the mouth of the Columbia River
> between Oregon and Washington?
> The West Coast of the US often has wind waves and swells that
> match or exceed anything off the US East or Gulf coasts. After all,
Storm season is relatively short.
We see plenty of "small boat advisories" sure. And the Venus, due to
her design would not do as well as one of her size should. But, those
shouldn't be dangerous for her either.
> A few weeks ago I spent a week up in Alaska helping people
> If you still doubt that the West Coast has heavy seas,
> go see the movie "Chasing Mavericks"
streamed btw.
A localized wave due to an underwater formation speaks about sea
state. Really?
I've been out in that water. And the Mavericks big wave contest can be
fun. The local pier is great for certain seasonal fresh fish and crab.
Good little restaraunt shack too.
Maybe I need to be more specific: dangerously heavy, as seen off the
east coast this week.
tutall
Oct 31, 2012, 9:41:24 AM10/31/12
to
On Oct 31, 6:02 am, "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedet...@ask.me> wrote:
> Il 30/10/2012 20:54, tutall ha scritto:
> well, it's the same coastline where happen the most embarassing USN
> shipwreck (mass-wreck of mass-production DDs...)
Believe fog had something to do with that. That was good formation
> Il 30/10/2012 20:54, tutall ha scritto:
> well, it's the same coastline where happen the most embarassing USN
> shipwreck (mass-wreck of mass-production DDs...)
discipline, give them credit for that. <bg>
> and the warm and beautiful waters of the Med are actually more dangerous
> for leasure ships unfit for sea, even if the skipper known his Art (I
> refer to the brief but sudden & violent summer storms)....
dott.Piergiorgio
Oct 31, 2012, 9:52:51 AM10/31/12
to
Il 31/10/2012 14:41, tutall ha scritto:
> On Oct 31, 6:02 am, "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedet...@ask.me> wrote:
>> Il 30/10/2012 20:54, tutall ha scritto:
>
>
>> well, it's the same coastline where happen the most embarassing USN
>> shipwreck (mass-wreck of mass-production DDs...)
>
> Believe fog had something to do with that. That was good formation
> discipline, give them credit for that. <bg>
This is why the episode was embarassing then and still today...
> On Oct 31, 6:02 am, "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedet...@ask.me> wrote:
>> Il 30/10/2012 20:54, tutall ha scritto:
>
>
>> well, it's the same coastline where happen the most embarassing USN
>> shipwreck (mass-wreck of mass-production DDs...)
>
> Believe fog had something to do with that. That was good formation
> discipline, give them credit for that. <bg>
>> and the warm and beautiful waters of the Med are actually more dangerous
>> for leasure ships unfit for sea, even if the skipper known his Art (I
>> refer to the brief but sudden & violent summer storms)....
>
> Thankfully we don't see those out this way.
obvious reasons..
y' ought to see, the clean and sunny skies in a quarter of hour became
full of storm cloud and rain, wind and thunder rules for another quarter
of hour, then in another quarter of hour the skies return clean and
sunny as nothing happened... go figure what happens on the Sea.
Derek Lyons
Oct 31, 2012, 11:18:13 AM10/31/12
to
tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>However, your price/performance critique is now dated at least a
>decade ago. There is still some premium, much less these days,
Not really. I just bought a new Windows box two weeks ago, and even
>However, your price/performance critique is now dated at least a
>decade ago. There is still some premium, much less these days,
without the sale (Costco was dumping Windows 7 prebuilts in
anticipation of the release of Windows 8), it cost just a hair under
half of what an equivalently performing Mac cost. (I know this for
certain, because I was considering jumping to a Mac and evaluated them
thoroughly.)
>the trade off is ease of use, which for non users is easy to dismiss.
>Computer illiterate grandmothers can use Apple with hardly any
>training.
black and white TV - largely either financially challenged, or
charming anachronisms. Either way, they're fairly rare. Consumer
PC's have been around for nearly thirty years, and the number of
people who are elder *and* have never been exposed to them has
radically decreased and will continue to do so.
>Setting up a new PC is still not that easy.
the last decade? Unbox, attach cables, plug in, power up, Robert is
your parent's sibling. Fine tuning the machine for your idiosyncratic
preferences remains problematic, but for 90% of the users that's not
even necessary - they just want a machine that more-or-less works.
Derek Lyons
Oct 31, 2012, 11:20:29 AM10/31/12
to
Mark Borgerson
Oct 31, 2012, 11:50:31 AM10/31/12
to
In article <2e60a49f-5da4-4056-998c-7068ebf5b3d8
@b9g2000pba.googlegroups.com>, tut...@hotmail.com says...
River bar. A search for "coast guard motor lifeboat school" will
find you some interesting videos of the wave action off the
Washington coast. You get lots of nice breaking waves when
an outgoing tide meets a 15-foot swell.
and April. (See Allan and Komar paper cited later). That's about the
same duration as the storm season off the East Coast.
just outside San Francisco Bay is pretty dangerous. In my younger
and more foolish days (26 and just out of the Navy), I singlehanded
a 24-foot sailboat from Oakland out the Golden Gate and up
to Bodega Bay. The combination of fog, seas, rocks and
other hazards made that a very interesting trip. On the way
back, I got caught in the ebb tide----it took me about 7
hours to make the last 12NM to Angel Island.
waters). Alaska up to about Seward is a West-facing coast
and is part of the US. However, a study, cited later,
shows that the largest waves occur off the Washington
Coast. Alaska, Oregon and California generally have
smaller wave heights.
Incidentally, when discussing waves, particularly off the West
coast, it's helpful to distinguish between localized wind wave
height and the swell. The swell can have heights around
30 feet and a period in the range of 11 to 14 seconds.
Wind waves are generally a fraction of that height and have
periods around 3 to 5 seconds.
shows the peak wave heights for Sandy to be 43 to 47 feet, as
measured by NOAA buoys. However that is from a buoy that
is anchored in only 28m of water. With water that shallow,
the larger waves are probably already starting to feel
the bottom and pile up. Note that the wave height today
is down to about 5 ft, so things have calmed down
pretty quickly as Sandy moved onshore.
Off the coast of Washington:
Big waves along Washington's coast
"High energy
The Pacific Northwest coast has one of the highest wave energy levels in
the world. Wave heights on average are large.
Big storm waves
Winter storms can generate waves more than 22.8 feet (7 meters) high. An
intense winter storm during the 1997/98 El Niño produced waves 48 feet
high.
Getting bigger
Between 1975 and 1999, the largest storm waves off the coast of
Washington increased in height from 26 feet (8 meters) to 39 feet (12
meters). What's causing the increase? El Niño may be a factor.
The biggest
Extreme waves 50 to 90 feet in height have been recorded on and beyond
the continental shelf. "
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/sea/coast/waves/big_waves.html
Off the East coast, wave heigts are also increasing:
"Significant wave heights measured during the hurricane season (which
runs from June 1 to November 30) show that the most extreme occurrences
during the 1996 to 2005 decade were both higher and more common than
those of 30 years ago, having increased from about 23 feet (7 meters) to
higher than 33 feet (10 meters). Hurricane season peaks in late August
to early September. "
So the big waves went up to 10m or more on the East Coast and
12m or more on the West coast. Note that the reports cover two
different time periods, with the East coast data being more recent.
http://www.livescience.com/4867-ocean-wave-heights-rising-east-
coast.html
For a more general explanation see:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/oceanography/questi
on623.htm
The high wave energy is one of the reasons that they are building the
first large prototype wave energy facility off Coos Bay, Oregon.
For an in-depth study, you might also take a look at this report by
Allan and Komar:
http://www.oregon.gov/LCD/OCMP/docs/publications/wave_climate_rpt.pdf
This is a report by two oceanography professors at the College of
Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences at Oregon State University.
(disclaimer: I am a Faculty Research Assistant in physical
oceanography at OSU--but was not employed there when the
report was written.)
Mark Borgerson
@b9g2000pba.googlegroups.com>, tut...@hotmail.com says...
>
> On Oct 30, 11:06 pm, Mark Borgerson <mborger...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > LOL! "The west coast (coastal waters) doesn't see much in the way
> > of heavy seas". Why do you think the US Coast Guard does
> > motor lifeboat training off the mouth of the Columbia River
> > between Oregon and Washington?
>
>
> Because of the tides and currents?
Nope. Because of the high surf in the region of the Columbia
> On Oct 30, 11:06 pm, Mark Borgerson <mborger...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > LOL! "The west coast (coastal waters) doesn't see much in the way
> > of heavy seas". Why do you think the US Coast Guard does
> > motor lifeboat training off the mouth of the Columbia River
> > between Oregon and Washington?
>
>
> Because of the tides and currents?
River bar. A search for "coast guard motor lifeboat school" will
find you some interesting videos of the wave action off the
Washington coast. You get lots of nice breaking waves when
an outgoing tide meets a 15-foot swell.
>
>
> > The West Coast of the US often has wind waves and swells that
> > match or exceed anything off the US East or Gulf coasts. After all,
>
> Wind waves and swells. Not storms, hurricanes or typhoons though.
> Storm season is relatively short.
The maximum wave heights off the west coast occur between October
>
> > The West Coast of the US often has wind waves and swells that
> > match or exceed anything off the US East or Gulf coasts. After all,
>
> Wind waves and swells. Not storms, hurricanes or typhoons though.
> Storm season is relatively short.
and April. (See Allan and Komar paper cited later). That's about the
same duration as the storm season off the East Coast.
>
> We see plenty of "small boat advisories" sure. And the Venus, due to
> her design would not do as well as one of her size should. But, those
> shouldn't be dangerous for her either.
>
Try a google search for "farallon islands shipwrecks". The area
> We see plenty of "small boat advisories" sure. And the Venus, due to
> her design would not do as well as one of her size should. But, those
> shouldn't be dangerous for her either.
>
just outside San Francisco Bay is pretty dangerous. In my younger
and more foolish days (26 and just out of the Navy), I singlehanded
a 24-foot sailboat from Oakland out the Golden Gate and up
to Bodega Bay. The combination of fog, seas, rocks and
other hazards made that a very interesting trip. On the way
back, I got caught in the ebb tide----it took me about 7
hours to make the last 12NM to Angel Island.
>
> > A few weeks ago I spent a week up in Alaska helping people
>
> I specifically excluded Alaska.
I must have missed that. All I see is "the west coast (coastal
> > A few weeks ago I spent a week up in Alaska helping people
>
> I specifically excluded Alaska.
waters). Alaska up to about Seward is a West-facing coast
and is part of the US. However, a study, cited later,
shows that the largest waves occur off the Washington
Coast. Alaska, Oregon and California generally have
smaller wave heights.
>
>
> > If you still doubt that the West Coast has heavy seas,
> > go see the movie "Chasing Mavericks"
>
> That's about a big wave surfing contest you know. Last one was live
> streamed btw.
> A localized wave due to an underwater formation speaks about sea
> state. Really?
No swell, no big surf, no matter what the underwater configuration.
>
> > If you still doubt that the West Coast has heavy seas,
> > go see the movie "Chasing Mavericks"
>
> That's about a big wave surfing contest you know. Last one was live
> streamed btw.
> A localized wave due to an underwater formation speaks about sea
> state. Really?
Incidentally, when discussing waves, particularly off the West
coast, it's helpful to distinguish between localized wind wave
height and the swell. The swell can have heights around
30 feet and a period in the range of 11 to 14 seconds.
Wind waves are generally a fraction of that height and have
periods around 3 to 5 seconds.
>
> I've been out in that water. And the Mavericks big wave contest can be
> fun. The local pier is great for certain seasonal fresh fish and crab.
> Good little restaraunt shack too.
>
> Maybe I need to be more specific: dangerously heavy, as seen off the
> east coast this week.
http://gcaptain.com/sandy-wave-height-analysis/
> I've been out in that water. And the Mavericks big wave contest can be
> fun. The local pier is great for certain seasonal fresh fish and crab.
> Good little restaraunt shack too.
>
> Maybe I need to be more specific: dangerously heavy, as seen off the
> east coast this week.
shows the peak wave heights for Sandy to be 43 to 47 feet, as
measured by NOAA buoys. However that is from a buoy that
is anchored in only 28m of water. With water that shallow,
the larger waves are probably already starting to feel
the bottom and pile up. Note that the wave height today
is down to about 5 ft, so things have calmed down
pretty quickly as Sandy moved onshore.
Off the coast of Washington:
Big waves along Washington's coast
"High energy
The Pacific Northwest coast has one of the highest wave energy levels in
the world. Wave heights on average are large.
Big storm waves
Winter storms can generate waves more than 22.8 feet (7 meters) high. An
intense winter storm during the 1997/98 El Niño produced waves 48 feet
high.
Getting bigger
Between 1975 and 1999, the largest storm waves off the coast of
Washington increased in height from 26 feet (8 meters) to 39 feet (12
meters). What's causing the increase? El Niño may be a factor.
The biggest
Extreme waves 50 to 90 feet in height have been recorded on and beyond
the continental shelf. "
http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/sea/coast/waves/big_waves.html
Off the East coast, wave heigts are also increasing:
"Significant wave heights measured during the hurricane season (which
runs from June 1 to November 30) show that the most extreme occurrences
during the 1996 to 2005 decade were both higher and more common than
those of 30 years ago, having increased from about 23 feet (7 meters) to
higher than 33 feet (10 meters). Hurricane season peaks in late August
to early September. "
So the big waves went up to 10m or more on the East Coast and
12m or more on the West coast. Note that the reports cover two
different time periods, with the East coast data being more recent.
http://www.livescience.com/4867-ocean-wave-heights-rising-east-
coast.html
For a more general explanation see:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/earth/oceanography/questi
on623.htm
The high wave energy is one of the reasons that they are building the
first large prototype wave energy facility off Coos Bay, Oregon.
For an in-depth study, you might also take a look at this report by
Allan and Komar:
http://www.oregon.gov/LCD/OCMP/docs/publications/wave_climate_rpt.pdf
This is a report by two oceanography professors at the College of
Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences at Oregon State University.
(disclaimer: I am a Faculty Research Assistant in physical
oceanography at OSU--but was not employed there when the
report was written.)
Mark Borgerson
tutall
Oct 31, 2012, 12:03:19 PM10/31/12
to
On Oct 31, 8:18 am, fairwa...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
> tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >However, your price/performance critique is now dated at least a
> >decade ago. There is still some premium, much less these days,
>
> Not really. I just bought a new Windows box two weeks ago, and even
> without the sale (Costco was dumping Windows 7 prebuilts in
> anticipation of the release of Windows 8), it cost just a hair under
> half of what an equivalently performing Mac cost.
Sure, sure, when Apple got themselves out of the IBM chipset they
> tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >However, your price/performance critique is now dated at least a
> >decade ago. There is still some premium, much less these days,
>
> Not really. I just bought a new Windows box two weeks ago, and even
> without the sale (Costco was dumping Windows 7 prebuilts in
> anticipation of the release of Windows 8), it cost just a hair under
> half of what an equivalently performing Mac cost.
really helped themselves out.
You can still find Wintel machines for a LOT less than any Apple
machine, but, you get what you pay for.
Your "of comparable performance" is an important point.
> People without PC experience today are like people in 1978 with a
> black and white TV - largely either financially challenged, or
> charming anachronisms. Either way, they're fairly rare.
never have to learn a thing other than the power button.
>
> >Setting up a new PC is still not that easy.
>
> As compared to what?
> Have you actually bought a pre-built machine in
> the last decade? Unbox, attach cables, plug in, power up, Robert is
> your parent's sibling.
IP stack has long been an issue with MS for some damn reason.
Drivers, accessories such a scanners and whatnot can still be too
problematic.
> Fine tuning the machine for your idiosyncratic
> preferences remains problematic, but for 90% of the users that's not
> even necessary - they just want a machine that more-or-less works.
>
Derek Lyons
Oct 31, 2012, 4:37:40 PM10/31/12
to
No, actually we don't. It doesn't seem like you either read a word I
said, or have any actual recent Windows experience.
said, or have any actual recent Windows experience.
Mark Borgerson
Oct 31, 2012, 6:06:57 PM10/31/12
to
In article <50924199....@news.supernews.com>, fair...@gmail.com
says...
>
> tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
winds as cold air sinks past the snowfields and glaciers.
http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/pubs/PDF/reyn441/reyn441.pdf
I experienced these winds during a drive across the Copper
River delta a few weeks ago. Sunny and calm at the
edge of the delta. 30 knots wind and 14 degrees lower
temperature out in the middle of the delta. The crew
placing some moorings for NRL reported that the roughest
part of the trip was off the Copper River delta due to
these outflow winds.
Mark Borgerson
M
says...
>
> tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Oct 31, 6:02ï¿œam, "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedet...@ask.me> wrote:
> >> Il 30/10/2012 20:54, tutall ha scritto:
> >
> >> and the warm and beautiful waters of the Med are actually more dangerous
> >> for leasure ships unfit for sea, even if the skipper known his Art (I
> >> refer to the brief but sudden & violent summer storms)....
> >
> >Thankfully we don't see those out this way.
>
> But the whole of the West coast of CONUS isn't California.
>
If you go up as far as Southeast Alaska, you can get katabatic
> >On Oct 31, 6:02ï¿œam, "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedet...@ask.me> wrote:
> >> Il 30/10/2012 20:54, tutall ha scritto:
> >
> >> and the warm and beautiful waters of the Med are actually more dangerous
> >> for leasure ships unfit for sea, even if the skipper known his Art (I
> >> refer to the brief but sudden & violent summer storms)....
> >
> >Thankfully we don't see those out this way.
>
> But the whole of the West coast of CONUS isn't California.
>
winds as cold air sinks past the snowfields and glaciers.
http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/pubs/PDF/reyn441/reyn441.pdf
I experienced these winds during a drive across the Copper
River delta a few weeks ago. Sunny and calm at the
edge of the delta. 30 knots wind and 14 degrees lower
temperature out in the middle of the delta. The crew
placing some moorings for NRL reported that the roughest
part of the trip was off the Copper River delta due to
these outflow winds.
Mark Borgerson
M
Dan
Oct 31, 2012, 7:21:37 PM10/31/12
to
their competition (time point for time point).
Guess you don't pay much attention...
Dan
Yama
Oct 31, 2012, 7:38:46 PM10/31/12
to
Dan <dnad...@hotmail.com> wrote:
: On 10/30/2012 4:09 PM, Bill wrote:
: > Expensive, stylish and none of them do anything their much cheaper
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone
: On 10/30/2012 4:09 PM, Bill wrote:
: > Expensive, stylish and none of them do anything their much cheaper
: > rivals don't do.
: Not true at all. They are quite functional, more than almost all of
: their competition (time point for time point).
: Guess you don't pay much attention...
Maddox summed up iPhone years ago:
: Not true at all. They are quite functional, more than almost all of
: their competition (time point for time point).
: Guess you don't pay much attention...
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone
Yama
Oct 31, 2012, 7:46:05 PM10/31/12
to
tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
: However, your price/performance critique is now dated at least a
magical "easiness" anymore than in a Windows. It's an OS, and that's
that. Maybe it would be different with iPad, I dunno, I don't use tablets.
: Setting up a new PC is still not that easy.
Uh, what? It's out-of-the-box, no different from Apple. Sure if you
do everything "old style", put all the components, drivers, OS together
yourself, then yes.
: My next PC will be Intel/Windows as that's what I know, but looking
: However, your price/performance critique is now dated at least a
: decade ago. There is still some premium, much less these days, and the
: trade off is ease of use, which for non users is easy to dismiss.
: Computer illiterate grandmothers can use Apple with hardly any
: training.
I've used Macs (not a lot, though) and I didn't detect any of this
: trade off is ease of use, which for non users is easy to dismiss.
: Computer illiterate grandmothers can use Apple with hardly any
: training.
magical "easiness" anymore than in a Windows. It's an OS, and that's
that. Maybe it would be different with iPad, I dunno, I don't use tablets.
: Setting up a new PC is still not that easy.
Uh, what? It's out-of-the-box, no different from Apple. Sure if you
do everything "old style", put all the components, drivers, OS together
yourself, then yes.
: My next PC will be Intel/Windows as that's what I know, but looking
: down at Apple and it's users seems unproductive.
Yeah, fun is unproductive, I admit it...
Bill
Oct 31, 2012, 8:00:33 PM10/31/12
to
I have no desire to join the Church of Jobs and pay for my devices to
spy on me and send little notes back to Apple Central every week
either.
In the end a phone is a phone, a computer a computer and an MP3
player is an MP3 player.
I refuse to pay twice the price for a clever graphical front end and
some rather pedestrian industrial design from failed architects.
If I was a millionaire it would be different, because I admit the
stuff does 'just work' straight out of the box in a way that M$
products don't, but you'd need a very convincing argument to pry my
Android telephone from my hands.
But as I'm not rich, (and I'm retired and have the time to make it all
work as I wish it to work) I won't...
tutall
Oct 31, 2012, 9:23:18 PM10/31/12
to
On Oct 31, 3:06 pm, Mark Borgerson <mborger...@comcast.net> wrote:
> In article <50924199.306008...@news.supernews.com>, fairwa...@gmail.com
> In article <50924199.306008...@news.supernews.com>, fairwa...@gmail.com
>
> > But the whole of the West coast of CONUS isn't California.
>
> If you go up as far as Southeast Alaska,
Alaska does not belong to CONUS.
> > But the whole of the West coast of CONUS isn't California.
>
> If you go up as far as Southeast Alaska,
Mark Borgerson
Oct 31, 2012, 9:39:02 PM10/31/12
to
In article <87f3939f-6030-4540-a43c-3d6f6bf61639
@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, tut...@hotmail.com says...
I didn't say that it did. That's why I specified Southeast Alaska
for the example you deleted.
Mark Borgerson
@q16g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, tut...@hotmail.com says...
for the example you deleted.
Mark Borgerson
Message has been deleted
bob
Nov 1, 2012, 6:37:21 AM11/1/12
to
On Nov 1, 1:00 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
I find it odd that on the one hand you are concerned about how an
iPhone might "spy" on you and on the other hand you are happy to use
an Android phone. You should take a look at how Google makes its
money (hint you, the android phone user, are the product they sell).
Robin
> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 16:21:37 -0700, Dan <dnada...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On 10/30/2012 4:09 PM, Bill wrote:
> >On 10/30/2012 4:09 PM, Bill wrote:
iPhone might "spy" on you and on the other hand you are happy to use
an Android phone. You should take a look at how Google makes its
money (hint you, the android phone user, are the product they sell).
Robin
Derek Lyons
Nov 1, 2012, 8:33:52 AM11/1/12
to
Fred J. McCall <fjmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Oct 31, 8:18 am, fairwa...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>>> tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >Setting up a new PC is still not that easy.
>>>
>>> As compared to what?
>>
>>A Mac of course.
>>
>
>Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
>cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
assistance whatever computer they're using.
>tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Oct 31, 8:18 am, fairwa...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>>> tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >Setting up a new PC is still not that easy.
>>>
>>> As compared to what?
>>
>>A Mac of course.
>>
>
>cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
assistance whatever computer they're using.
tutall
Nov 1, 2012, 9:28:09 AM11/1/12
to
On Oct 31, 1:37 pm, fairwa...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
> tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Think we mostly agree really.
>
> No, actually we don't. It doesn't seem like you either read a word I
> said, or have any actual recent Windows experience.
I gave a few examples, and all you offer up is playground talk?
> tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Think we mostly agree really.
>
> No, actually we don't. It doesn't seem like you either read a word I
> said, or have any actual recent Windows experience.
You talk to people IRL like this?
Bye.
Bill
Nov 1, 2012, 10:16:21 AM11/1/12
to
On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 03:37:21 -0700 (PDT), bob <rcp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I find it odd that on the one hand you are concerned about how an
>iPhone might "spy" on you and on the other hand you are happy to use
>an Android phone. You should take a look at how Google makes its
>money (hint you, the android phone user, are the product they sell).
>
I also use Gmail and a couple of other web based products that Google
>I find it odd that on the one hand you are concerned about how an
>iPhone might "spy" on you and on the other hand you are happy to use
>an Android phone. You should take a look at how Google makes its
>money (hint you, the android phone user, are the product they sell).
>
spy on.
What I object to is Apple reserving the right to look at my phone
records.
Google say explicitly that they do not do so, Apple refuse to
comment.
Anyone who thinks a personal and unencrypted email system is secure is
a fool.
Derek Lyons
Nov 1, 2012, 12:00:07 PM11/1/12
to
tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 31, 1:37 pm, fairwa...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>> tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >Think we mostly agree really.
>>
>> No, actually we don't. It doesn't seem like you either read a word I
>> said, or have any actual recent Windows experience.
>
>I gave a few examples, and all you offer up is playground talk?
You gave a mixed salad of nonsense, hence my comment.
>On Oct 31, 1:37 pm, fairwa...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>> tutall <tut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >Think we mostly agree really.
>>
>> No, actually we don't. It doesn't seem like you either read a word I
>> said, or have any actual recent Windows experience.
>
>I gave a few examples, and all you offer up is playground talk?
>You talk to people IRL like this?
Derek Lyons
Nov 1, 2012, 12:00:47 PM11/1/12
to
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Bill
Nov 1, 2012, 5:12:37 PM11/1/12
to
On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 16:00:47 GMT, fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons)
wrote:
>Bill <black...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 03:37:21 -0700 (PDT), bob <rcp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I find it odd that on the one hand you are concerned about how an
>>>iPhone might "spy" on you and on the other hand you are happy to use
>>>an Android phone. You should take a look at how Google makes its
>>>money (hint you, the android phone user, are the product they sell).
>>>
>>
>>I also use Gmail and a couple of other web based products that Google
>>spy on.
>>
>>What I object to is Apple reserving the right to look at my phone
>>records.
>>
>>Google say explicitly that they do not do so, Apple refuse to
>>comment.
>>
>>Anyone who thinks a personal and unencrypted email system is secure is
>>a fool.
>
>Yet you use Gmail... therefore you are a fool.
What makes you think anything of import is ever passed by me by email?
Email is about as secure as a postcard...
wrote:
>Bill <black...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 03:37:21 -0700 (PDT), bob <rcp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I find it odd that on the one hand you are concerned about how an
>>>iPhone might "spy" on you and on the other hand you are happy to use
>>>an Android phone. You should take a look at how Google makes its
>>>money (hint you, the android phone user, are the product they sell).
>>>
>>
>>I also use Gmail and a couple of other web based products that Google
>>spy on.
>>
>>What I object to is Apple reserving the right to look at my phone
>>records.
>>
>>Google say explicitly that they do not do so, Apple refuse to
>>comment.
>>
>>Anyone who thinks a personal and unencrypted email system is secure is
>>a fool.
>
>Yet you use Gmail... therefore you are a fool.
Email is about as secure as a postcard...
Bill
Nov 1, 2012, 5:17:00 PM11/1/12
to
On 1 Nov 2012 19:30:19 GMT, Juergen Nieveler
<juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>
>>>Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
>>>cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
>>
>> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
>> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
>> assistance whatever computer they're using.
>
>And since Win7, the setup really is quite fast and easy to do - the
>most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
>browser ;- )
Which is one reason why I have stopped using Linux and have gone back
to Windows.
The other was me buying a powerful twin-head graphics card and I had
difficulty installing it using Linux.
On asking the OS newsgroup for help I got a host of 'If you can't do
something that simple you're not fit to be a Linux user' type of
answers, so I gave up and used something that worked...
<juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>
>>>Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
>>>cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
>>
>> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
>> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
>> assistance whatever computer they're using.
>
>most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
>browser ;- )
Which is one reason why I have stopped using Linux and have gone back
to Windows.
The other was me buying a powerful twin-head graphics card and I had
difficulty installing it using Linux.
On asking the OS newsgroup for help I got a host of 'If you can't do
something that simple you're not fit to be a Linux user' type of
answers, so I gave up and used something that worked...
Mark Borgerson
Nov 1, 2012, 6:42:47 PM11/1/12
to
In article <XnsA0FECF62D447...@nieveler.org>,
juergen.nie...@arcor.de says...
a bit problematical for me with some of the tools I use. Manufacturers
of some debugging and programming tools were a bit
slow to upgrade their drivers.
Furthermore, HP, which used to be pretty good at customer support,
hasn't bothered to upgrade drivers for a lot of perfectly functional
flatbed scanners. We've had to recycle about three of these where I
work. I'm tempted to bring one home and see if MACOS will let it work
with my IMAC. (the IMAC hardly gets any use these days----it was
purchased for IOS programming back before I got unretired.)
Mark Borgerson
juergen.nie...@arcor.de says...
>
> fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>
> >>Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
> >>cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
> >
> > Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
> > deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
> > assistance whatever computer they're using.
>
> fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>
> >>Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
> >>cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
> >
> > Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
> > deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
> > assistance whatever computer they're using.
>
> And since Win7, the setup really is quite fast and easy to do - the
> most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
> browser ;- )
While Win7 itself is easy to set up, the transition to 64-bit OS was
> most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
> browser ;- )
a bit problematical for me with some of the tools I use. Manufacturers
of some debugging and programming tools were a bit
slow to upgrade their drivers.
Furthermore, HP, which used to be pretty good at customer support,
hasn't bothered to upgrade drivers for a lot of perfectly functional
flatbed scanners. We've had to recycle about three of these where I
work. I'm tempted to bring one home and see if MACOS will let it work
with my IMAC. (the IMAC hardly gets any use these days----it was
purchased for IOS programming back before I got unretired.)
Mark Borgerson
Derek Lyons
Nov 1, 2012, 11:51:26 PM11/1/12
to
>>>Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
>>>cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
>>
>> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
>> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
>> assistance whatever computer they're using.
>
>>>cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
>>
>> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
>> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
>> assistance whatever computer they're using.
>
>And since Win7, the setup really is quite fast and easy to do - the
>most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
>browser ;- )
Indeed. As I said I just bought a new machine two weeks ago (my old
>most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
>browser ;- )
one was an XP) and was pleasently surprised by how easy it was.
Gernot Hassenpflug
Nov 2, 2012, 12:34:22 AM11/2/12
to
Bill <black...@gmail.com> writes:
> On 1 Nov 2012 19:30:19 GMT, Juergen Nieveler
> <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>
> >fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
> >
> >>>Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
> >>>cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
> >>
> >> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
> >> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
> >> assistance whatever computer they're using.
> >
> >And since Win7, the setup really is quite fast and easy to do - the
> >most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
> >browser ;- )
>
> Which is one reason why I have stopped using Linux and have gone back
> to Windows.
I've been happy with Win7 at work, in the sense that it has been
> On 1 Nov 2012 19:30:19 GMT, Juergen Nieveler
> <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>
> >fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
> >
> >>>Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
> >>>cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
> >>
> >> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
> >> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
> >> assistance whatever computer they're using.
> >
> >And since Win7, the setup really is quite fast and easy to do - the
> >most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
> >browser ;- )
>
> Which is one reason why I have stopped using Linux and have gone back
> to Windows.
relatively stable, and fast too. Mind you, I don't use it for any kind
of programming, so there is no need to hassle with installing
productive software on it, just the usual business-required Office
Word, Excel and Powerpoint.
Sadly, in latest linux Debian and Ubuntu, there has been a move to
large icon-based interfaces, very far from the more text-based
interfaces I like to use. I still use fallback window managers as
customizing a new manager is not my thing, but it may become
necessary.
> The other was me buying a powerful twin-head graphics card and I had
> difficulty installing it using Linux.
> On asking the OS newsgroup for help I got a host of 'If you can't do
> something that simple you're not fit to be a Linux user' type of
> answers, so I gave up and used something that worked...
myself), as these people probably would not recognize a free market if
it bit them in the behind; being able to tolerate others' choices and
capabilities/differences is kind of a pre-requisite for a free-market
based society, rather than a one-size-fits-all central-control or
other utopian attempt to mould society (end of rant).
--
Gernot Hassenpflug
Mark Borgerson
Nov 2, 2012, 12:34:51 AM11/2/12
to
In article <50934309...@news.supernews.com>, fair...@gmail.com
says...
with the new Win7 machine, you can't use the Win7 default Homegroup
networking. It will require a bit of fussing around to get old and
new machines talking to each other. Nowhere near as troublesome as
setting up SAMBA on a linux machine to exchange files with Widows
machines, though.
Mark Borgerson
says...
>
> Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>
> >fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
> >
> >>>Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
> >>>cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
> >>
> >> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
> >> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
> >> assistance whatever computer they're using.
> >
> >And since Win7, the setup really is quite fast and easy to do - the
> >most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
> >browser ;- )
>
> Indeed. As I said I just bought a new machine two weeks ago (my old
> one was an XP) and was pleasently surprised by how easy it was.
>
One thing to look out for----if you want to network that old XP machine
> Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>
> >fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
> >
> >>>Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
> >>>cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
> >>
> >> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
> >> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
> >> assistance whatever computer they're using.
> >
> >And since Win7, the setup really is quite fast and easy to do - the
> >most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
> >browser ;- )
>
> Indeed. As I said I just bought a new machine two weeks ago (my old
> one was an XP) and was pleasently surprised by how easy it was.
>
with the new Win7 machine, you can't use the Win7 default Homegroup
networking. It will require a bit of fussing around to get old and
new machines talking to each other. Nowhere near as troublesome as
setting up SAMBA on a linux machine to exchange files with Widows
machines, though.
Mark Borgerson
Kerryn Offord
Nov 2, 2012, 12:35:08 AM11/2/12
to
On 2/11/2012 4:51 p.m., Derek Lyons wrote:
> Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>
>> fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>>
>>>> Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
>>>> cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
>>>
>>> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
>>> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
>>> assistance whatever computer they're using.
>>
>> And since Win7, the setup really is quite fast and easy to do - the
>> most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
>> browser ;- )
>
> Indeed. As I said I just bought a new machine two weeks ago (my old
> one was an XP) and was pleasently surprised by how easy it was.
>
> D.
>
Yes, but what is Windows 8 like?
> Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>
>> fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>>
>>>> Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
>>>> cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
>>>
>>> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
>>> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
>>> assistance whatever computer they're using.
>>
>> And since Win7, the setup really is quite fast and easy to do - the
>> most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
>> browser ;- )
>
> Indeed. As I said I just bought a new machine two weeks ago (my old
> one was an XP) and was pleasently surprised by how easy it was.
>
> D.
>
(Difficult to get a Win7 machine new now...)
David E. Powell
Nov 2, 2012, 1:35:36 AM11/2/12
to
On Tuesday, October 30, 2012 4:27:05 PM UTC-4, Andrew Swallow wrote:
> On 30/10/2012 19:23, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
>
> > Juergen Nieveler wrote:
>
> >> A Dutch blogger claims to have taken pictures of the yacht built for
>
> >> Steve Jobs (which was apparently finished a tad bit late...):
>
> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/29/steve_jobs_yacht_venus/
>
> >>
>
> >> Question to the experts - would this boat be actually seaworthy in
>
> >> anything but a calm sea?
>
> >>
>
> >> The vertical bow and vertical flat windows don't really look like
>
> >> something you'd see on an oceangoing vessel - and the huge rectangular
>
> >> windows below the main deck remind me more of river cruise vessels you
>
> >> see on the Rhine...
>
> >
>
> > Wow, that is one strange looking beastie of a boat, isn't it. ? I get the
>
> > impression feeling this one was intended to be moored up much of the time,
>
> > as a floating luxury hotel/restaurant, with an occasional foray into calm
>
> > open ocean waters.
>
> >
>
> > cheers....Jeff
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
> I wonder how long it will be before this turns up in a James Bond movie?
>
>
>
> Andrew Swallow
YES! Thunderball mode!
> On 30/10/2012 19:23, Jeffrey Hamilton wrote:
>
> > Juergen Nieveler wrote:
>
> >> A Dutch blogger claims to have taken pictures of the yacht built for
>
> >> Steve Jobs (which was apparently finished a tad bit late...):
>
> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/29/steve_jobs_yacht_venus/
>
> >>
>
> >> Question to the experts - would this boat be actually seaworthy in
>
> >> anything but a calm sea?
>
> >>
>
> >> The vertical bow and vertical flat windows don't really look like
>
> >> something you'd see on an oceangoing vessel - and the huge rectangular
>
> >> windows below the main deck remind me more of river cruise vessels you
>
> >> see on the Rhine...
>
> >
>
> > Wow, that is one strange looking beastie of a boat, isn't it. ? I get the
>
> > impression feeling this one was intended to be moored up much of the time,
>
> > as a floating luxury hotel/restaurant, with an occasional foray into calm
>
> > open ocean waters.
>
> >
>
> > cheers....Jeff
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
> I wonder how long it will be before this turns up in a James Bond movie?
>
>
>
> Andrew Swallow
YES! Thunderball mode!
Message has been deleted
Keith W
Nov 2, 2012, 5:09:46 AM11/2/12
to
There was no support for my perfectly good Canon Scanner
in Win 7 but these guys had their own driver.
Keith
Keith W
Nov 2, 2012, 5:15:31 AM11/2/12
to
As a long time user of OS from MVS XA through Primos, VMS
and several flavours of Unix I found Win 8 to be a real
pain to set up. It took me half a day to install a printer
which was installed from Windows 7 in seconds.
Quite a few manufacturers actually offer downgrades to Win 7
because the corporate users are cold shouldering Win 8
as they did with Vista.
Keith
Kerryn Offord
Nov 2, 2012, 6:02:58 AM11/2/12
to
That fits the rumours I've heard...
I'm looking at getting a laptop, one without a touch screen...
dott.Piergiorgio
Nov 2, 2012, 6:38:24 AM11/2/12
to
Il 01/11/2012 20:30, Juergen Nieveler ha scritto:
(okular) and.... ;)
seriously, it's a pity that Commodore goes belly up... I always watch
with interest the german/N euruope demoscene ;)
In the end, *real* software improvement came from N euruope.....
Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.
> fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>
>>> Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
>>> cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
>>
>> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
>> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
>> assistance whatever computer they're using.
>
>
>>> Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
>>> cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
>>
>> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
>> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
>> assistance whatever computer they're using.
>
> And since Win7, the setup really is quite fast and easy to do - the
> most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
> browser ;- )
add to this a better office suite (libreoffice), a better .pdf reader
> most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
> browser ;- )
(okular) and.... ;)
seriously, it's a pity that Commodore goes belly up... I always watch
with interest the german/N euruope demoscene ;)
In the end, *real* software improvement came from N euruope.....
Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.
dott.Piergiorgio
Nov 2, 2012, 6:44:31 AM11/2/12
to
Il 01/11/2012 22:17, Bill ha scritto:
> The other was me buying a powerful twin-head graphics card and I had
> difficulty installing it using Linux.
>
> On asking the OS newsgroup for help I got a host of 'If you can't do
> something that simple you're not fit to be a Linux user' type of
> answers, so I gave up and used something that worked...
well, the c.o.l.* NGs is populated by talibans (of both sides ;) )
> The other was me buying a powerful twin-head graphics card and I had
> difficulty installing it using Linux.
>
> On asking the OS newsgroup for help I got a host of 'If you can't do
> something that simple you're not fit to be a Linux user' type of
> answers, so I gave up and used something that worked...
better avenue to ask, are the distro's forums (and searching in said forums)
aside that generally, putting the name of the offending hardware plus
Linux into google works wonders...
(aside that generally many Linuxians consider winsozz good only for
gaming, and that you asked about a powerful grh card, I guess the people
on Linux NG got the wrong idea...)
dott.Piergiorgio
Nov 2, 2012, 6:48:00 AM11/2/12
to
I placed here an data HD I plan put Debian on) and customizing WM ought
to be a breeze (no more than a day for me)
But I use Linux since 1994....
dott.Piergiorgio
Nov 2, 2012, 6:53:07 AM11/2/12
to
Il 02/11/2012 05:34, Mark Borgerson ha scritto:
> One thing to look out for----if you want to network that old XP machine
> with the new Win7 machine, you can't use the Win7 default Homegroup
> networking. It will require a bit of fussing around to get old and
> new machines talking to each other. Nowhere near as troublesome as
> setting up SAMBA on a linux machine to exchange files with Widows
> machines, though.
Indeed I use the old proven way for transferring files, modernized: I
> One thing to look out for----if you want to network that old XP machine
> with the new Win7 machine, you can't use the Win7 default Homegroup
> networking. It will require a bit of fussing around to get old and
> new machines talking to each other. Nowhere near as troublesome as
> setting up SAMBA on a linux machine to exchange files with Widows
> machines, though.
keep a pair or so of USB memories with winsozz filesystem, and use 'em
for transferring files between the two machines.
as the old tagline used during the good ol'days of USENET says, "never
underestimate the bandwith of a station-wagon loaded with DECTapes" ;)
Keith W
Nov 2, 2012, 8:30:29 AM11/2/12
to
dott.Piergiorgio wrote:
> Il 02/11/2012 05:34, Mark Borgerson ha scritto:
>
>> One thing to look out for----if you want to network that old XP
>> machine with the new Win7 machine, you can't use the Win7 default
>> Homegroup networking. It will require a bit of fussing around to
>> get old and new machines talking to each other. Nowhere near as
>> troublesome as setting up SAMBA on a linux machine to exchange files
>> with Widows machines, though.
>
> Indeed I use the old proven way for transferring files, modernized: I
> keep a pair or so of USB memories with winsozz filesystem, and use 'em
> for transferring files between the two machines.
>
Simplest way is just a good ftp client on the Windows machine.
> Il 02/11/2012 05:34, Mark Borgerson ha scritto:
>
>> One thing to look out for----if you want to network that old XP
>> machine with the new Win7 machine, you can't use the Win7 default
>> Homegroup networking. It will require a bit of fussing around to
>> get old and new machines talking to each other. Nowhere near as
>> troublesome as setting up SAMBA on a linux machine to exchange files
>> with Widows machines, though.
>
> Indeed I use the old proven way for transferring files, modernized: I
> keep a pair or so of USB memories with winsozz filesystem, and use 'em
> for transferring files between the two machines.
>
Filezilla makes transferring files from a Unix Server to
Windows very easy and over a remote connection its more
efficient and faster than windows copy.
Keith
Mark Borgerson
Nov 2, 2012, 11:52:30 AM11/2/12
to
In article <nCNks.2845$5b....@tornado.fastwebnet.it>, chied...@ask.me
says...
LOL! That's a parallel to another one I read: What's the highest
bandwidth data transfer medium? Answer: A semi-truck full of
DVDs on the interstate highway. (Of course that ignores an awful
lot of redundant transfers!)
Mark Borgerson
says...
bandwidth data transfer medium? Answer: A semi-truck full of
DVDs on the interstate highway. (Of course that ignores an awful
lot of redundant transfers!)
Mark Borgerson
Mark Borgerson
Nov 2, 2012, 11:54:41 AM11/2/12
to
In article <u5Mks.154154$Sr2.1...@fx01.am4>,
keithnosp...@demon.co.uk says...
thanks. I'll give it a try.
Mark Borgerson
keithnosp...@demon.co.uk says...
Mark Borgerson
dott.Piergiorgio
Nov 2, 2012, 12:25:28 PM11/2/12
to
solid-state media in being more tailored for backup than transfer)
on the redundant transfers, is all in the capacities of who split the
data for the recording.....
(my main backup tool is still cp ....)
Message has been deleted
Derek Lyons
Nov 2, 2012, 3:56:29 PM11/2/12
to
Mark Borgerson <mborg...@comcast.net> wrote:
>In article <50934309...@news.supernews.com>, fair...@gmail.com
>says...
>>
>> Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>>
>> >fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>> >
>> >>>Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
>> >>>cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
>> >>
>> >> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
>> >> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
>> >> assistance whatever computer they're using.
>> >
>> >And since Win7, the setup really is quite fast and easy to do - the
>> >most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
>> >browser ;- )
>>
>> Indeed. As I said I just bought a new machine two weeks ago (my old
>> one was an XP) and was pleasently surprised by how easy it was.
>>
>One thing to look out for----if you want to network that old XP machine
>with the new Win7 machine, you can't use the Win7 default Homegroup
>networking.
I don't... the XP machine is sitting in the corner waiting for me to
>In article <50934309...@news.supernews.com>, fair...@gmail.com
>says...
>>
>> Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:
>>
>> >fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
>> >
>> >>>Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than 'plug
>> >>>cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
>> >>
>> >> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
>> >> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
>> >> assistance whatever computer they're using.
>> >
>> >And since Win7, the setup really is quite fast and easy to do - the
>> >most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
>> >browser ;- )
>>
>> Indeed. As I said I just bought a new machine two weeks ago (my old
>> one was an XP) and was pleasently surprised by how easy it was.
>>
>One thing to look out for----if you want to network that old XP machine
>with the new Win7 machine, you can't use the Win7 default Homegroup
>networking.
wipe it's hard drive before it goes off to a charity.
Derek Lyons
Nov 2, 2012, 3:58:47 PM11/2/12
to
Kerryn Offord <ka...@uclive.ac.nz> wrote:
>On 2/11/2012 4:51 p.m., Derek Lyons wrote:
>
>> Indeed. As I said I just bought a new machine two weeks ago (my old
>> one was an XP) and was pleasently surprised by how easy it was.
>
>On 2/11/2012 4:51 p.m., Derek Lyons wrote:
>
>> Indeed. As I said I just bought a new machine two weeks ago (my old
>> one was an XP) and was pleasently surprised by how easy it was.
>
>Yes, but what is Windows 8 like?
>(Difficult to get a Win7 machine new now...)
I bought a Win 7 machine specifically to avoid the headaches of
>(Difficult to get a Win7 machine new now...)
dealing with Win 8. In a couple of years when Win 8 is patched and
stable... then it might be time to take a look at it.
Kerryn Offord
Nov 2, 2012, 5:19:39 PM11/2/12
to
On 3/11/2012 8:58 a.m., Derek Lyons wrote:
> Kerryn Offord <ka...@uclive.ac.nz> wrote:
>
>> On 2/11/2012 4:51 p.m., Derek Lyons wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed. As I said I just bought a new machine two weeks ago (my old
>>> one was an XP) and was pleasently surprised by how easy it was.
>>
>> Yes, but what is Windows 8 like?
>> (Difficult to get a Win7 machine new now...)
>
> I bought a Win 7 machine specifically to avoid the headaches of
> dealing with Win 8. In a couple of years when Win 8 is patched and
> stable... then it might be time to take a look at it.
>
> D.
>
That is what I am thinking..
> Kerryn Offord <ka...@uclive.ac.nz> wrote:
>
>> On 2/11/2012 4:51 p.m., Derek Lyons wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed. As I said I just bought a new machine two weeks ago (my old
>>> one was an XP) and was pleasently surprised by how easy it was.
>>
>> Yes, but what is Windows 8 like?
>> (Difficult to get a Win7 machine new now...)
>
> I bought a Win 7 machine specifically to avoid the headaches of
> dealing with Win 8. In a couple of years when Win 8 is patched and
> stable... then it might be time to take a look at it.
>
> D.
>
Why spend my money to help Microsoft improve Win8 to the point where it
is usable
Keith W
Nov 2, 2012, 7:01:49 PM11/2/12
to
Derek Lyons wrote:
> Kerryn Offord <ka...@uclive.ac.nz> wrote:
>
>> On 2/11/2012 4:51 p.m., Derek Lyons wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed. As I said I just bought a new machine two weeks ago (my old
>>> one was an XP) and was pleasently surprised by how easy it was.
>>
>> Yes, but what is Windows 8 like?
>> (Difficult to get a Win7 machine new now...)
>
> I bought a Win 7 machine specifically to avoid the headaches of
> dealing with Win 8. In a couple of years when Win 8 is patched and
> stable... then it might be time to take a look at it.
>
> D.
It looks pretty stable , its just BAD.
> Kerryn Offord <ka...@uclive.ac.nz> wrote:
>
>> On 2/11/2012 4:51 p.m., Derek Lyons wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed. As I said I just bought a new machine two weeks ago (my old
>>> one was an XP) and was pleasently surprised by how easy it was.
>>
>> Yes, but what is Windows 8 like?
>> (Difficult to get a Win7 machine new now...)
>
> I bought a Win 7 machine specifically to avoid the headaches of
> dealing with Win 8. In a couple of years when Win 8 is patched and
> stable... then it might be time to take a look at it.
>
> D.
They have done some good work at the Kernel level, it
is less resource intensive and boots faster, the trouble is
they tried to come up with a single OS for Phones, Tablets
and PC's and thats just a bad idea. The end result is that
you keep having to go back to a menu screen that looks
like a primary school childs idea of an interface and which
then switches you back to what is in effect Windows 7
running as an app.
Yuck !
Keith
Andrew Chaplin
Nov 3, 2012, 8:20:17 AM11/3/12
to
"dott.Piergiorgio" <chied...@ask.me> wrote in news:nCNks.2845$5b.559
@tornado.fastwebnet.it:
> Il 02/11/2012 05:34, Mark Borgerson ha scritto:
>
>> One thing to look out for----if you want to network that old XP machine
>> with the new Win7 machine, you can't use the Win7 default Homegroup
>> networking. It will require a bit of fussing around to get old and
>> new machines talking to each other. Nowhere near as troublesome as
>> setting up SAMBA on a linux machine to exchange files with Widows
>> machines, though.
>
> Indeed I use the old proven way for transferring files, modernized: I
> keep a pair or so of USB memories with winsozz filesystem, and use 'em
> for transferring files between the two machines.
The term I heard back in the '80s was "sneakernet," only then we were
walking from one stand-alone machine to another with 5.25" floppy discs.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)
@tornado.fastwebnet.it:
> Il 02/11/2012 05:34, Mark Borgerson ha scritto:
>
>> One thing to look out for----if you want to network that old XP machine
>> with the new Win7 machine, you can't use the Win7 default Homegroup
>> networking. It will require a bit of fussing around to get old and
>> new machines talking to each other. Nowhere near as troublesome as
>> setting up SAMBA on a linux machine to exchange files with Widows
>> machines, though.
>
> Indeed I use the old proven way for transferring files, modernized: I
> keep a pair or so of USB memories with winsozz filesystem, and use 'em
> for transferring files between the two machines.
walking from one stand-alone machine to another with 5.25" floppy discs.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)
Mark Borgerson
Nov 3, 2012, 1:58:06 PM11/3/12
to
In article <XnsA10054D1A482EH...@88.198.244.100>,
ab.ch...@yourfinger.rogers.com says...
using Dropbox. With 20MBit cable internet at home and even faster at
the university, I can keep files and folders synced between home and
work computers pretty easily. With most projects using only
a few tens to perhaps a hundred MB of data, I'm still getting by with
the free 5GB.
Mark Borgerson
ab.ch...@yourfinger.rogers.com says...
>
> "dott.Piergiorgio" <chied...@ask.me> wrote in news:nCNks.2845$5b.559
> @tornado.fastwebnet.it:
>
> > Il 02/11/2012 05:34, Mark Borgerson ha scritto:
> >
> >> One thing to look out for----if you want to network that old XP machine
> >> with the new Win7 machine, you can't use the Win7 default Homegroup
> >> networking. It will require a bit of fussing around to get old and
> >> new machines talking to each other. Nowhere near as troublesome as
> >> setting up SAMBA on a linux machine to exchange files with Widows
> >> machines, though.
> >
> > Indeed I use the old proven way for transferring files, modernized: I
> > keep a pair or so of USB memories with winsozz filesystem, and use 'em
> > for transferring files between the two machines.
>
> The term I heard back in the '80s was "sneakernet," only then we were
> walking from one stand-alone machine to another with 5.25" floppy discs.
For modest-sized transfers between computers in different locations, I'm
> "dott.Piergiorgio" <chied...@ask.me> wrote in news:nCNks.2845$5b.559
> @tornado.fastwebnet.it:
>
> > Il 02/11/2012 05:34, Mark Borgerson ha scritto:
> >
> >> One thing to look out for----if you want to network that old XP machine
> >> with the new Win7 machine, you can't use the Win7 default Homegroup
> >> networking. It will require a bit of fussing around to get old and
> >> new machines talking to each other. Nowhere near as troublesome as
> >> setting up SAMBA on a linux machine to exchange files with Widows
> >> machines, though.
> >
> > Indeed I use the old proven way for transferring files, modernized: I
> > keep a pair or so of USB memories with winsozz filesystem, and use 'em
> > for transferring files between the two machines.
>
> The term I heard back in the '80s was "sneakernet," only then we were
> walking from one stand-alone machine to another with 5.25" floppy discs.
using Dropbox. With 20MBit cable internet at home and even faster at
the university, I can keep files and folders synced between home and
work computers pretty easily. With most projects using only
a few tens to perhaps a hundred MB of data, I'm still getting by with
the free 5GB.
Mark Borgerson
Message has been deleted
Gernot Hassenpflug
Nov 4, 2012, 9:39:17 PM11/4/12
to
Fred J. McCall <fjmc...@gmail.com> writes:
> Kerryn Offord <ka...@uclive.ac.nz> wrote:
>
> >
> >Yes, but what is Windows 8 like?
> >(Difficult to get a Win7 machine new now...)
> >
>
> It's wonderful if you want a really big phone on your desk. Not so
> much, otherwise.
NHK in Japan had warning adverts over the media the last weeks. The warning was that customers who bought Windows 8 must not expect to have a touch-panel operating system---they need a physical touch panel for that to work.
It seems Windows 8 is seen by many people over here as simply a touch-panel gimmick.
<dry>For me, I leave out the word touch-panel</dry>
--
Gernot Hassenpflug
> Kerryn Offord <ka...@uclive.ac.nz> wrote:
>
> >
> >Yes, but what is Windows 8 like?
> >(Difficult to get a Win7 machine new now...)
> >
>
> much, otherwise.
NHK in Japan had warning adverts over the media the last weeks. The warning was that customers who bought Windows 8 must not expect to have a touch-panel operating system---they need a physical touch panel for that to work.
It seems Windows 8 is seen by many people over here as simply a touch-panel gimmick.
<dry>For me, I leave out the word touch-panel</dry>
--
Gernot Hassenpflug
Gernot Hassenpflug
Nov 4, 2012, 9:42:17 PM11/4/12
to
Unfortuantely, also what Ubuntu linux has done, and Debian also in the default desktop now.
Absolutely horrible. Luckily Debian still has a usable fallback.
Ubuntu I found I could not install 12.04 as a VM anymore, even with VMware Tools, totally unresponsive and I finally gave up and install 10.04 for all Ubuntu-needed development at my work.
--
Gernot Hassenpflug
Gernot Hassenpflug
Nov 4, 2012, 9:46:41 PM11/4/12
to
"Keith W" <keithnosp...@demon.co.uk> writes:
> Mark Borgerson wrote:
> > In article <XnsA0FECF62D447...@nieveler.org>,
> > juergen.nie...@arcor.de says...
> >>
> >> fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than
> >>>> 'plug cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
> >>>
> >>> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
> >>> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
> >>> assistance whatever computer they're using.
> >>
> >> And since Win7, the setup really is quite fast and easy to do - the
> >> most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
> >> browser ;- )
> >
> > While Win7 itself is easy to set up, the transition to 64-bit OS was
> > a bit problematical for me with some of the tools I use.
> > Manufacturers of some debugging and programming tools were a bit
> > slow to upgrade their drivers.
> >
> > Furthermore, HP, which used to be pretty good at customer support,
> > hasn't bothered to upgrade drivers for a lot of perfectly functional
> > flatbed scanners. We've had to recycle about three of these where I
> > work. I'm tempted to bring one home and see if MACOS will let it
> > work with my IMAC. (the IMAC hardly gets any use these days----it was
> > purchased for IOS programming back before I got unretired.)
Yes, that is pretty dismaying. Not only for Win7. The gutenprint project for (primarily) inkjet support on linux and Mac OSX system, and for which I am the de facto Canon backend maintainer, is receiving a multitude of queries on how to install drivers for perfectly good printers on Mac OSX 10.6. It seems HP just decided to shelve driver support for many models after 10.5.
> Mark Borgerson wrote:
> > In article <XnsA0FECF62D447...@nieveler.org>,
> > juergen.nie...@arcor.de says...
> >>
> >> fair...@gmail.com (Derek Lyons) wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Really? I'm sorry, but I don't see how it gets any easier than
> >>>> 'plug cables together', 'plug in power', 'turn on switch'.
> >>>
> >>> Not to mention... setting up is only done *once*. Someone who is
> >>> deterred by a modest amount of setup time/work probably needs
> >>> assistance whatever computer they're using.
> >>
> >> And since Win7, the setup really is quite fast and easy to do - the
> >> most annoying bit is you have to use IE once... to download a better
> >> browser ;- )
> >
> > While Win7 itself is easy to set up, the transition to 64-bit OS was
> > a bit problematical for me with some of the tools I use.
> > Manufacturers of some debugging and programming tools were a bit
> > slow to upgrade their drivers.
> >
> > Furthermore, HP, which used to be pretty good at customer support,
> > hasn't bothered to upgrade drivers for a lot of perfectly functional
> > flatbed scanners. We've had to recycle about three of these where I
> > work. I'm tempted to bring one home and see if MACOS will let it
> > work with my IMAC. (the IMAC hardly gets any use these days----it was
> > purchased for IOS programming back before I got unretired.)
> > Mark Borgerson
>
> You might want to try a shareware program called VueScan.
> There was no support for my perfectly good Canon Scanner
> in Win 7 but these guys had their own driver.
--
Gernot Hassenpflug
Gernot Hassenpflug
Nov 4, 2012, 9:48:50 PM11/4/12
to
--
Gernot Hassenpflug
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
Nov 5, 2012, 12:58:34 AM11/5/12
to
Microsoft won, and they do a damn fine (mostly worry free) job, for my money.
;-)
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