Jimmy Carter -- Consistently Making A Fool Of Himself
D. Spencer Hines
down the encounter, saying the security chief was only doing his job."
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
-----------------------------------------------
Jimmy Carter Confronts Sudan Officials
Oct 3, 8:42 PM (ET)
By ALFRED de MONTESQUIOU
KABKABIYA, Sudan (AP) - Former President Jimmy Carter confronted Sudanese
security services on a visit to Darfur Wednesday, shouting "You don't have
the power to stop me!" at some who blocked him from meeting refugees of the
conflict.
The 83-year-old Carter, in Darfur as part of a delegation of respected
international figures known as "The Elders," wanted to visit a refugee camp.
But the U.N. mission in Sudan deemed that too dangerous.
Instead, Carter agreed to fly to the World Food Program compound in the
North Darfur town of Kabkabiya, where he was supposed to meet with ethnic
African refugees, many of whom were chased from their homes by militias and
the Arab-dominated government's forces.
But none of the refugees showed up and Carter decided to walk into the
town - a volatile stronghold of the pro-government janjaweed militia - to
meet refugees too frightened to attend the meeting at the compound.
He was able to make it to a school where he met with one tribal
representative and was preparing to go further into town when Sudanese
security officers stopped him.
"You can't go," the local chief of the feared Sudanese secret police, who
only gave his first name as Omar, ordered Carter. "It's not on the program!"
"We're going to anyway!" an angry Carter retorted as a small crowd began to
gather around. "You don't have the power to stop me."
However, U.N. officials told Carter's entourage the powerful Sudanese state
police could bar his way.
"We've got to move, or someone is going to get shot," warned one of the U.N.
staff accompanying the delegation.
Carter's traveling companions, billionaire businessman Richard Branson and
Graca Machel, the wife of former South African President Nelson Mandela,
tried to ease his frustration and his Secret Service detail urged him to get
into a car and leave.
"I'll tell President Bashir about this," Carter said, referring to Sudanese
President Omar al-Bashir.
Omar, the security chief, said Carter had already breached security once by
walking to the school and would not be allowed to breach it again.
"We are in the security field. We're not that flexible," he said after the
confrontation ended.
In an interview with The Associated Press later in the day, Carter played
down the encounter, saying the security chief was only doing his job.
"But it's true that I'm not accustomed to people telling me I can't walk
down the street and meet people," he told the AP after returning to a United
Nations compound in El Fasher, the capital of North Darfur state.
Branson said some refugees had slipped notes in his pockets.
"We (are) still suffering from the war as our girls are being raped on a
daily basis," read one of the notes, translated from Arabic, that Branson
handed to the AP.
The note said that on Sept. 26, a group of girls had been raped, one of them
a 10-year-old, and that a refugee had been shot two days ago. Branson said
it had been handed over by an ethnic African man.
"All (refugees) living in the town of Kabkabiya are vulnerable prisoners who
live under injustice and intimidation," the note also said.
For the most part, the refugees here appeared too frightened to speak to the
visiting delegation. The single refugee representative Carter managed to
meet at the school pleaded with an AP reporter out of earshot of Sudanese
security for Carter to ensure he would not face government retaliation.
Carter then went back to the man and wrote down his name, assuring him he
would look out for his safety.
Most of the community leaders the mission met during its two-day visit to
Darfur appeared to be government-vetted, and several ethnic African
delegates told AP they had been intimidated by authorities into turning down
invitations from "the Elders."
"This illustrates the challenges that communities and humanitarian workers
face in Darfur," said Orla Clinton, spokeswoman for the U.N. Mission in
Sudan, who witnessed the incident.
More than 200,000 people have been killed since the conflict in the western
Sudanese region of Darfur began in 2003 when ethnic African rebels took up
arms against the Arab-dominated Sudanese government, accusing it of decades
of discrimination. Sudan's government is accused of retaliating by
unleashing a militia of Arab nomads known as the janjaweed - a charge it
denies.
The visit by "The Elders," which is headed by Nobel Peace Prize laureates
Carter and Desmond Tutu, is largely a symbolic move by a host of respected
figures to push all sides to make peace.
The group made Darfur its first mission, trying to use their influence at a
crucial time in the conflict. A peacekeeping force of 26,000 United Nations
and African Union troops is to begin deploying later this month while new
peace talks between the government and rebels are set for the end of the
month in Libya.
Tensions in Darfur are running high after rebels overran an African Union
peacekeeping base in northern Darfur over the weekend, killing 10 in the
deadliest attack on the beleaguered force since it arrived in the region
three years ago.
Tutu led a separate group to a refugee camp in South Darfur, where he told
British Broadcasting Corp. radio the joint African Union-U.N. force was
needed immediately.
"It's awful that AMIS (African Mission in Sudan) should be allowed to be
here when it is so inadequately equipped - I mean they couldn't evacuate
their injured from the camp after the attack because they don't have
military helicopters," he said, referring to the weekend attack on the
African Union base.
Carter accused the international community of neglect for taking too long to
mobilize over Darfur.
"Because of Iraq, this crisis had been simmering at a lower level," he told
the AP.
However, he said he disagreed with Bush and others who called the killings
in Darfur a genocide.
"Rwanda was definitely a genocide; what Hitler did to the Jews was; but I
don't think it's the case in Darfur," Carter said. "I think Darfur is a
crime against humanity, but done on a micro scale. A dozen janjaweed
attacking here and there," he said, noting many refugees have survived the
violence.
"I don't think the commitment was to exterminate a whole group of people,
but to chase them from their water holes and lands, killing them in the
process at random," he said. "I think you can call it ethnic cleansing."
He also vowed to hold world powers to their pledge of ending this "crime
against humanity."
Eugene Griessel
> Jimmy Carter -- Consistently Making A Fool Of Himself
You should have vast experience of what that's like. I mean Jimmy
only does it now and again while you do it several times a day.
Eugene L Griessel
And when God, who created the entire universe with all of its glories
decides to deliver a message to humanity, He WILL NOT use as His
messenger, a person on TV with a bad hairstyle.
- I usually post only from Sci.Military.Naval -
Password
Way to much peanut butter has twisted his mind. I fill sorry
for him he is so fucking clueless. Sad.
D. Spencer Hines
pleaded with an AP reporter out of earshot of Sudanese security for Carter
to ensure he would not face government retaliation."
"Carter then went back to the man and wrote down his name, assuring him he
would look out for his safety."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's not a promise Carter can keep -- foolish, naïve duffer that he is.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
-----------------------------------------------------------
"You can't go," the local chief of the feared Sudanese secret police, who
only gave his first name as Omar, ordered Carter. "It's not on the program!"
"We're going to anyway!" an angry Carter retorted as a small crowd began to
gather around. "You don't have the power to stop me."
However, U.N. officials told Carter's entourage the powerful Sudanese state
police could bar his way.
"We've got to move, or someone is going to get shot," warned one of the U.N.
staff accompanying the delegation.
Omar, the security chief, said Carter had already breached security once by
Brian Allardice
<pan...@excelsior.com> wrote:
>"In an interview with The Associated Press later in the day, Carter played
>down the encounter, saying the security chief was only doing his job."
>
>DSH
>
>Lux et Veritas et Libertas
I've never really undestood this. Carter is a great American resource
with considerable international credibility. Personally, I never much
liked the man, but who cares. What I find bizarre is that the
military idiots - and their groupies - who managed to crash
helicopters &c into each other are those who are first to criticise
him for that debacle, having no doubt previously assured him that "Of
course not, Mr. President, we are the best trained military in the
world and of course we won't crash into each other. Do you take us
for idiots?"
Cheers,
dba
Semper Ubi Sububi
The Highlander
I'd say he has a lot more courage than some of the assholes like you
that I've met, who sit home, clinging to their mother's skirts and
insulting honest men who put their principles into practice.
As we Scots say, it's your medals that speak for you; not your mouth.
And before you start whining, let me say that your Boy Scout
knot-tying badge cuts no ice here.
(Sick of disrepectful nobodies.)
The Highlander
Well said!
Billzz
news:dk69g31p5ms3tj8sd...@4ax.com...
The criticism comes from the "minimum essential force structuring" technique
that was used. This approach uses "reverse engineering" to start at the
objective and then work backwards to assemble the minimum essential force.
This resulted in only sufficient helicopter lift for the hostages plus ten
percent. The ten percent was used up in sandstorms and other exigencies.
The crash of the C-130 with a helicopter happened after the decision was
made to withdraw. I was at Major General Vaught's debriefing at the
Pentagon.
As a result I was appointed project manager for the US Army's first computer
graphics based three-sided interactive wargame. I left the army before it
was finished but when I left members of the XVIII Airborne staff were
testing contingency plans on it. And since the administration had changed I
do not have to tell you that we never planned a minimum essential force
structure. In fact my personal belief is that when Reagan was inaugurated
the Iranians released the hostages because they knew what was gong to
happen.
It's always easy, and usually wrong, to blame the troops for the failure of
political leadership. The military can come up with a winning force
structure and have it undercut by the political people who only want what
they want, not necessarily what it takes.
The same thing is going on now. Not enough force structure.
What you find bizarre is the failure of the civilian leadership.
Billzz
D. Spencer Hines
And Correct...
To A Degree...
Kennedy made some of the same mistakes at the Bay of Pigs in 1961 -- and
other mistakes.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"Billzz" <billzz...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:5f41f$47052091$9440b19b$21...@STARBAND.NET...
Baldoni
Carter is the best ex President America has ever had.
--
Count Baldoni
zzbu...@netscape.net
> D. Spencer Hines pretended :
>
>
>
>
>
> > "The single refugee representative Carter managed to meet at the school
> > pleaded with an AP reporter out of earshot of Sudanese security for Carter to
> > ensure he would not face government retaliation."
>
> > "Carter then went back to the man and wrote down his name, assuring him he
> > would look out for his safety."
>
> > That's not a promise Carter can keep -- foolish, naïve duffer that he is.
>
> > DSH
>
> > Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> > "You can't go," the local chief of the feared Sudanese secret police, who
> > only gave his first name as Omar, ordered Carter. "It's not on the program!"
>
> > "We're going to anyway!" an angry Carter retorted as a small crowd began to
> > gather around. "You don't have the power to stop me."
>
> > However, U.N. officials told Carter's entourage the powerful Sudanese state
> > police could bar his way.
>
> > "We've got to move, or someone is going to get shot," warned one of the U.N.
> > staff accompanying the delegation.
>
> > Omar, the security chief, said Carter had already breached security once by
> > walking to the school and would not be allowed to breach it again.
>
> > "We are in the security field. We're not that flexible," he said after the
> > confrontation ended.
>
> > In an interview with The Associated Press later in the day, Carter played
> > down the encounter, saying the security chief was only doing his job.
>
> Carter is the best ex President America has ever had.
He would have to be, since he's the only President
who was the first elected Pesident after Nixon resigned.
But that still doesn't mean the idiot knows anything
about deep submersibles, GPS, Government, Computers, AI, or
non Interstate 95 transportation.
>
> --
> Count Baldoni- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
God's Creator!
Thus Spake: *G* *O* *D* *S* *C* *R* *E* *A* *T* *O* *R*
*They made the world's people a lot happier*
Jimmy Carter, (1)
---> http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/jc39.html
Harry Truman, (2)
---> http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/ht33.html
Franklin Delanor Roosevelt, (3)
---> http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/fr32.html
Both; Bush's (++) ended the worlds people singing, dancing,
and caring, and turned them into *Death, Suffering, and... Fear* .
That should also be placed on their tombstones...
--->
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/2004-10-17-steves_x.htm
The *Suicide Bomber Terrorist's * are planning it to be
soon... :-(
God's Creator! 8-)
( Sorry, I don't forgive shit! )
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Todays U.S. "Judaism Vs. Islamism Wars" News:
. http://www.antiwar.com .
. http://icasualties.org/oif/ .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rich Johnson
> I'd say he has a lot more courage than some of the assholes like you
> that I've met, who sit home, clinging to their mother's skirts and
> insulting honest men who put their principles into practice.
>
> As we Scots say, it's your medals that speak for you; not your mouth.
>
> And before you start whining, let me say that your Boy Scout
> knot-tying badge cuts no ice here.
Please show a little respect for those of us who humbly attempt to
follow in B.P.s footsteps.
smn content, B.P.'s started Sea Scouts with his brother, as well his
maternal Grandfather was an admiral.*
*Stolen shamelessly from wikipedia when I went to check the year Sea
Scouts were started
--
Rich
Enfield NS
Canada
Ray O'Hara
"D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:rD9Ni.256$6q5....@eagle.america.net...
> Thoughtful...
>
> And Correct...
>
> To A Degree...
>
> Kennedy made some of the same mistakes at the Bay of Pigs in 1961 -- and
> other mistakes.
kennedy's mistake at the bay of pigs was ever letting it happen
allen dulles sold him a bill of goods. the idea was always to use the 1st
marine division but dulles didn't disclose that bit to JFK.
he figured kennedy would be forced into when the bigade assaulto was pinned
down{as was always expected}.
dulles they held back the air support just making the disaster on the beach
all the worse.
the whole idiot idea was based on the belief that nixon would be elected
when kennedy was elected instead, dulles kept the plan alive but he never
disclosed the truth.
the dulles brothers were two of the most despicable people in modern
american history.
Richard Casady
wrote:
>As we Scots say, it's your medals that speak for you; not your mouth.
>
>And before you start whining, let me say that your Boy Scout
>knot-tying badge cuts no ice here.
Maybe it should, just a little.
Knots are one of the actually useful things they teach Scouts.
[They also teach knife sharpening, another dying art.]
We are at the Navy group In the navy few can tie knots well enough to
get even a scout award for it. Not many sails[1], or much rope, on a
modern ship. Most modern mariners, navy, merchant. or pleasure,
wouldn't know a marlinspike from a fid.
Someone had to put the eyesplices in the ends of the docklines, but
you need fewer than one guy per ship for that. I have taught sailing
at a summer camp and know just how few can tie more than a couple of
knots. You only really need about five. Most people don't know that
much. When was th last time you saw a package with string on it? All
tape these days: that stuff has gotten noticeably better in the last
fifty years. I have only actually met one guy who knew how to splice,
my father. I can barely imagine splicing wire rope, but a few can do
it.
[1] If a lifeboat lacks an engine it will have a sail, and they teach
the use thereof at merchant marine trade schools. Mostly lifeboats do
have engines. You want to see what a modern lifeboat looks like go to
the Panama Canal Authority webcams and see the ships go through the
locks. I did an Atlantic crossing on the Queen Mary, and all you could
see from the room was a lifeboat. They put the props in circular
shrouds that turn for steering. Kort nozzle they call it.
Casady
The Highlander
I can still splice and I can still rig sails ans bring a sloop into
harbour to a dead stop at the quayside without bumping it.
But then, it was our way of life.
The Highlander
You'll be eating it soon enough if your country doesn't get off its
arse and move into the 21st century.
The Highlander
That's very true.
I've learned to respect your judgements and opinions as one of the few
genuine military men who post here.
PaPaPeng
<billzz...@starband.net> wrote:
>It's always easy, and usually wrong, to blame the troops for the failure of
>political leadership. The military can come up with a winning force
>structure and have it undercut by the political people who only want what
>they want, not necessarily what it takes.
If I recall from the reports of that time one of the most biting
criticism was that every service chief wanted into the rescue mission
for the prestige of being a major player in it. Carter wasn't firm
enough to resist. He could have invited competing proposals from each
service arm and selected the best. So every service arm had a part
but no one was really in charge of overall planning or command. It
was more of a military PR mission that went bad and less a rescue
mission. Not one service chief admitted any blame when Carter "took
sole responsibility."
Fred J. McCall
:On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:19:03 -0700, "Billzz"
:
That's because the responsibility WAS his. Carter was told that a
'go/no go' decision was needed BEFORE the start of the sandstorm
season. He waited too long to pull the trigger and, sure enough, they
got hit by a bloody sandstorm.
--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to
live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Dryden
PaPaPeng
A sin that many supreme commanders commit. Micromanaging. The
supreme commander should determine policy or in this case the mission.
The mission's execution should be left to the operations commander.
If that mission fails the OC takes the fall. The mission objective
remains valid and the supreme commander's decision remains correct.
The two really bad examples of supreme commanders micromanaging wars
were Tzar Nichilas II and Kaiser Wilhelm II They thought wearing
magnificient bemedalled military uniforms and having exalted military
titles actually qualified them to lead armies. The failure of their
wars cost them their crowns. Bush 43 and Cheney. Sounds familiar?