Chaplains in Marine service dress
Arved Sandstrom
uniform? I don't begrudge them that - I just find it odd. The official
pictures for the Chaplain of the Marine Corps, the deputy chaplain, the
RPCM, and the deputy executive assistant all show them in Marine uniform.
How exactly does this work? You're in the USN but you can wear the service
uniform of another branch? Are they the only ones who can do this? I don't
think corpsmen can.
AHS
Duke of URL
Arved Sandstrom <asand...@accesswave.ca> radiated into the
WorldWideWait:
It's not truly another branch. The Marines are a subsidiary of the
Navy. It's the norm for Medical, Legal or Religious personnel assigned
to the Fleet Marine Force to wear Marine Greens.
Howard Berkowitz
<asand...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
Corpsmen may elect to follow USMC uniform and grooming standards while
attached to Marine units. THe chaplains probably are using a similar
rule.
Good idea, I think -- increases unit cohesion, and also has the side
benefit that the sniper doesn't say "I don't know that uniform -- must
be some soft of ossifer."
Arved Sandstrom
news:vvp0p0o...@corp.supernews.com...
Except I can't recall the corpsmen assigned to us ever wearing anything
other than utes with a Navy emblem, or then going over to Navy uniforms for
more formal occasions.
AHS
Howard Berkowitz
<asand...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
Not incompatible with the idea that it's an individual choice.
Ogden Johnson III
Sorry Arved. Corpsmen have always been authorized to wear the Marine
uniform while assigned to the FMF, provided they agree to maintain
USMC grooming and appearance standards while doing so; at least by the
time I enlisted in '61 and for a good time before that. Don't know
when that was extended to the chaplains, but I remember seeing some
when I was stationed at Lejeune in the 60s. The number of corpsmen
choosing to do so has varied from time to time, and by duty
assignment. e.g., all of the corpsmen I ever saw/knew in 2dPionBn
chose to wear the USMC trops/greens [dating myself; yes, it was the
early '60s], probably because they spent a lot of time with the
company they were assigned to - on duty and off, the single corpsmen
lived in the barracks with us, held a basic sick call there every
morning. OTOH, in aviation, all corpsmen, stateside, worked out of
the base hospital/dispensary, and we only saw them in our squadron
area when we did mass things, like pre-deployment shots, annual flu
shots, etc. Few of the corpsmen I saw in aviation in the late
'70s/early '80s had chosen the Marine uniform option. [Naturally, in
the field all corpsmen wore cammies].
When wearing the Marine uniform, the corpsmen still wear their Navy
insignia, Marine-ized in color to go with the greens [and khaki/trops
before they went away].
--
OJ III
[Email sent to Yahoo addy is burned before reading.
Lower and crunch the sig and you'll net me at comcast]
Duke of URL
Arved Sandstrom <asand...@accesswave.ca> radiated into the
WorldWideWait:
> "Duke of URL" <macbenahATkdsiDOTnet> wrote in message
> news:vvp0p0o...@corp.supernews.com...
>> In news:kh%Kb.199745$PD3.5...@nnrp1.uunet.ca,
>> Arved Sandstrom <asand...@accesswave.ca> radiated into the
>> WorldWideWait:
>>
>>> I was wondering, how is it that chaplains are able to wear Marine
>>> service uniform? I don't begrudge them that - I just find it odd.
>>> The official pictures for the Chaplain of the Marine Corps, the
>>> deputy chaplain, the RPCM, and the deputy executive assistant all
>>> show them in Marine uniform. How exactly does this work? You're in
>>> the USN but you can wear the service uniform of another branch?
>>> Are they the only ones who can do this? I don't think corpsmen
>>> can.
>>
>> It's not truly another branch. The Marines are a subsidiary of the
>> Navy. It's the norm for Medical, Legal or Religious personnel
>> assigned to the Fleet Marine Force to wear Marine Greens.
>
> Except I can't recall the corpsmen assigned to us ever wearing
> anything other than utes with a Navy emblem, or then going over to
> Navy uniforms for more formal occasions.
I've seen it many times. Perhaps it's one of those things ordained by
the Area Commander?
Arved Sandstrom
news:q24pvv0k1v9hrh8lf...@4ax.com...
OK, thank you. I was curious because I don't believe that I ever saw any
doctor or dentist or corpsman or chaplain or RP wear anything other than
camouflage (with the USN emblems) at work or, you know, their pretty Navy
stuff on more formal occasions. I am positive that the battalion chaplain,
his RP, and all of the corpsmen attached to the BAS never ever wore Marine
service uniforms. Most of the corpsmen lived in barracks with us. Fridays
(when we were in garrison) we turned out in service uniform (summer or
winter 'A's), and the corpsmen turned out in whatever the heck is their
appropriate uniform.
But I believe you that they can make the choice, and in fact I rather like
it. I thought it was pretty cool that all the top people in the chaplains
corps that are serving with the Marines decided to have official pictures
taken in Marine service uniform.
AHS
Dale Farmer
Arved Sandstrom wrote:
When I was a corpsman, when you went to field medical school, you were
given a choice of going with marine uniforms or staying navy uniforms. In
either
case you got your issue of utilities, boots and so on. If you went marine, you
got an issue of charlies. ( greens) and you had to conform to marine uniform
and grooming standards. Dress uniform was still jumpers and bell bottoms.
The recommendation was that if you were going to a marine unit after field
medical school, that you went marine, but if you were going to a hospital or
clinic to stay in navy uniforms. You still had to maintain all your navy
uniforms,
you just didn't wear the working whites or blues, but wore the charlies.
You wanted to blend in, being part of the unit. Wearing the same uniforms
made this much easier.
My class in hospital corps school didn't happen to go to Field Medical
school ( about half of the classes did. ) and I was never assigned to a
marine unit, so I don't know the details.
--Dale
TAH
they wish to dress Marine or dress Navy for the duration of their tour of
duty. If one chooses to wear Marine uniforms, one must conform fully with
Marine Corps uniform and grooming standards. Naval personnel wear all
uniforms up to "service" uniforms (greens); they do not wear "dress"
uniforms (blues). Instead of wearing the Marine blue uniform (dress),
sailors wear equivalent Navy uniform usually Service Dress Blues and Whites
or Summer Whites. The following link provides more information:
http://www.marcorsyscom.usmc.mil/sites/mcub/PAGES/Uniform%20Regs%20Chapters/
Chapter%208_files%5CChapter%208.htm
One must also keep in mind that navy personnel assigned to "Navy units"
located on Marine Corps bases would not have this option. In another post
reference was made to medical personnel at the navy hospitals on Camps
Lejeune/Pendleton. Officers and sailors assigned to a medical battalion, but
who work at the hospital when their unit isn't deployed or in the field
would have the option of which uniform to wear; but, those assigned to the
navy hospital staff would most likely not.
And just because one might choose to wear the Marine uniform doesn't mean
that there won't be occasions where the Navy uniform will be worn. For
instance a navy chaplain assigned to Quantico might be invited to give
Benediction at an awards ceremony at the FBI Academy located at Quantico.
Because the chaplain is a naval officer and not a Marine, and since the FBI
is not a Marine Corps unit (though there are plenty of former Marine
officers in its ranks), protocol and service customs would dictate that the
chaplain wear Navy Service Dress Blue (or Whites depending on the season);
and this would be required by Marine uniform regulations if there were
Marines attending the ceremony wearing their Dress Blues.
Another Navy/Marine uniform situation concerns NROTC midshipmen who opt for
Marine commissions upon graduation. NROTC midshipmen wishing to enter the
Marine Corps make their intentions known by the end of their third class
(sophomore) year. Second and First Class (juniors/seniors) Marine Option
program students continue to wear navy midshipman uniforms to classes and
formations, except their uniforms bear the Eagle, Anchor and Globe on
jackets, shirt collars, caps and shoulder boards in place of the fouled
anchor device. A few NROTC units allow their MO's to wear a red name tag
versus a black one as well. These Marine Option students also have the
initials "USMCR" instead of "USNR" after the title "Midshipman". However, to
the best of my knowledge, Naval Academy midshipman who will be commissioned
in the Marines do not follow this practice. Anyone affiliated with
Annapolis know differently?
Another twist to this is enlisted personnel participating in the Enlisted
Commissioning Program (ECP) at schools with NROTC units. Enlisted navy
personnel when entering ECP retain their paygrade (i.e. E-4, E-8) but assume
the title of officer candidate and exchange their petty officer/chiefs
uniforms for those of an officer candidate until graduation from university
and OCS. Marine enlisted on the other hand continue to wear the uniform of
their enlisted rank until graduation/commissioning (however like their Navy
ECP counterparts they are only assigned "officer candidate"duties while in
the program).
--
Arved Sandstrom <asand...@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:kh%Kb.199745$PD3.5...@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
scott s.
news:GT8Lb.765797$HS4.6053654@attbi_s01:
> Naval personnel permanently assigned to Marine Corps units choose
> whether they wish to dress Marine or dress Navy for the duration of
> their tour of duty. If one chooses to wear Marine uniforms, one must
> conform fully with Marine Corps uniform and grooming standards. Naval
> personnel wear all uniforms up to "service" uniforms (greens); they do
> not wear "dress" uniforms (blues). Instead of wearing the Marine blue
> uniform (dress), sailors wear equivalent Navy uniform usually Service
> Dress Blues and Whites or Summer Whites. The following link provides
> more information:
IIRC in the last couple years there has been heated discussion about
whether corpsman would be allowed to have EG&A on their uniforms.
I think this was after crucible was put into boot camp.
scott s.
.
Fred J. McCall
:I was wondering, how is it that chaplains are able to wear Marine service
:uniform? I don't begrudge them that - I just find it odd. The official
:pictures for the Chaplain of the Marine Corps, the deputy chaplain, the
:RPCM, and the deputy executive assistant all show them in Marine uniform.
:How exactly does this work?
I believe Naval personnel on permanent assignment to Marine formations
have the option of wearing Marine uniform.
:You're in the USN but you can wear the service
:uniform of another branch?
The Marines aren't "another branch". They're part of the Department
of the Navy. They only recently got their own seat on the Joint
Chiefs. They used to have to do all their talking through the Navy.
:Are they the only ones who can do this? I don't
:think corpsmen can.
I believe it applies to corpsmen, as well.
[I haven't looked at the regs, though, so I could be mistaken.]
--
"This is a war of the unknown warriors; but let all strive
without failing in faith or in duty...."
-- Winston Churchill
Fred J. McCall
:"Duke of URL" <macbenahATkdsiDOTnet> wrote in message
:news:vvp0p0o...@corp.supernews.com...
:>
:> It's not truly another branch. The Marines are a subsidiary of the
:> Navy. It's the norm for Medical, Legal or Religious personnel assigned
:> to the Fleet Marine Force to wear Marine Greens.
:
:Except I can't recall the corpsmen assigned to us ever wearing anything
:other than utes with a Navy emblem, or then going over to Navy uniforms for
:more formal occasions.
It's optional. A lot of folks don't do it because it entails buying a
whole new sea bag full of uniforms (the Marine ones) and you still
have to have the Navy ones if your next assignment send you to a Navy
command rather than another Marine one.
Kind of an expensive option for most folks to undertake.
Arved Sandstrom
news:c3lqvv8553squjeka...@4ax.com...
> "Arved Sandstrom" <asand...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
>
> :I was wondering, how is it that chaplains are able to wear Marine service
> :uniform? I don't begrudge them that - I just find it odd. The official
> :pictures for the Chaplain of the Marine Corps, the deputy chaplain, the
> :RPCM, and the deputy executive assistant all show them in Marine uniform.
> :How exactly does this work?
>
> I believe Naval personnel on permanent assignment to Marine formations
> have the option of wearing Marine uniform.
So we have been informed - some good posts on this subject. I'm guessing
that the top guys in the chaplains corps (that are assigned to the USMC) all
elected to do the full Marine uniform route.
> :You're in the USN but you can wear the service
> :uniform of another branch?
>
> The Marines aren't "another branch". They're part of the Department
> of the Navy. They only recently got their own seat on the Joint
> Chiefs. They used to have to do all their talking through the Navy.
Yeah, we're another branch, Fred. We're part of the Department of the Navy,
and operationally we work through the Navy, but we're not the Navy.
> :Are they the only ones who can do this? I don't
> :think corpsmen can.
>
> I believe it applies to corpsmen, as well.
It seems like it does, as Dale said. All I know is that when I was in, the
battalion corpsmen were in cammies when we were in cammies, and they were in
their Navy stuff when we were in service uniform.
> [I haven't looked at the regs, though, so I could be mistaken.]
There were some good refs supplied, which I am going to check out.
AHS
Arved Sandstrom
news:Xns9469F123B2644...@205.188.138.161...
What does EG&A mean?
AHS
Fred J. McCall
:"Fred J. McCall" <fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
:news:c3lqvv8553squjeka...@4ax.com...
:>
:> The Marines aren't "another branch". They're part of the Department
:> of the Navy. They only recently got their own seat on the Joint
:> Chiefs. They used to have to do all their talking through the Navy.
:
:Yeah, we're another branch, Fred. We're part of the Department of the Navy,
:and operationally we work through the Navy, but we're not the Navy.
Well, that's what the Marines claim, anyway. The Navy has a somewhat
different opinion. :-)
Andrew Chaplin
>
> What does EG&A mean?
Are you funnin' us, Arved, or just sufferin' from unexpelled brain gas? Even
I can see it's "Eagle, Globe and Anchor"
ABC
Duke of URL
Arved Sandstrom
news:9meLb.7630$fm4....@news20.bellglobal.com...
No, I honestly did not know. Not one of us ever used that
acronym/abbreviation. If you had to refer to it, it was "Eagle, Globe and
Anchor". That's why seeing it in that form was so unfamiliar to me. You
could have walked through any squadbay I ever inhabited, and said "where's
your EG&A on that blouse?", and the other fellow would have gone "what the
hell are you talking about?"
AHS
Peter H. Granzeau
<asand...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
>> I can see it's "Eagle, Globe and Anchor"
>
>No, I honestly did not know. Not one of us ever used that
>acronym/abbreviation. If you had to refer to it, it was "Eagle, Globe and
>Anchor". That's why seeing it in that form was so unfamiliar to me. You
>could have walked through any squadbay I ever inhabited, and said "where's
>your EG&A on that blouse?", and the other fellow would have gone "what the
>hell are you talking about?"
This is not a formal document, it's a frigging newsgroup. You are
being a bit too anal on the matter. Abbreviations abound in
newsgroups. You wouldn't SAY the abbreviation, just as you wouldn't
try to pronounce "etc." if reading aloud; you would say "et cetera" or
even translate to "and so forth".
Joe Osman
Don't be so harsh with Arved. The USMC is a very traditional
outfit with its very own lingo, so any changes to that lingo
are to be met with proper suspicion before they are
accepted. As far as EG&A is concerned, I have never seen or
heard it myself. I have seen EGA used on Usenet and WWW
sites, but only there and only in print. I never heard
either when I was in the USMC (1969-1972).
Joe
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Alan Minyard
And you claim that you were a US Marine?
Al Minyard
Andrew Chaplin
Different ships, different splices -- but does a stoker know every
long splice used aboard?
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)
Arved Sandstrom
news:1iurvv0k8d5g0b75v...@4ax.com...
I asked the question because I never saw a single chaplain, RP, or corpsman
*ever* wear anything other than utilities or their Navy uniforms. Not one.
Zero. One less than one. Nobody. Is that clear enough? The Navy lieutenant
assigned to Hq Bty 1/10 Liaison Section when I was with that section
operated exactly the same way - utilities, but always his USN uniforms in
more formal situations.
What do you think we did - sit around and memorize the NAVPERS on uniform
regs? I'll tell you what was considered sufficient in relation to the navy -
knowing what the rank insignia were, knowing how to properly go aboard and
go onshore when afloat, and learning how to stay out of the way during GQ.
We were on army bases often enough that we also knew what the rank insignia
were for the doggies - but it may shock you to your core to know that
neither I nor any Marine I recall could reliably identify USAF personnel by
grade. Why bother? Are you going to take me to task for that? It was enough
to know that the crewchief and the guys flying the plane (whether a C-130,
C-141 or C-5) were senior to me - I've been on a number of USAF bases
(mostly in NC) and I don't believe that I ever had to address an air force
guy.
We tried to spend as much of our time as possible doing Marine training, not
boning up on whether a rear-admiral lower half wears a cummerbund in a given
situation. Guess what? 90% of the time we didn't even know what the rates
were - we just knew that this guy was a PO1, or this other guy was an MCPO.
The latter being especially important info, since you never cross a chief.
After a few floats you started realizing that there were things like
boatswains and coxswains and machinist's mates and so on and so forth, but
if you think that we could often figure out who was who by the nice little
insignia, or actually even give a damn, you're sadly mistaken.
Sorry to burst your bubble, Al. If you think that Marines should be
concerned about minutiae like this, e-mail the CMC.
AHS
Ogden Johnson III
>What do you think we did - sit around and memorize the NAVPERS on uniform
>regs? I'll tell you what was considered sufficient in relation to the navy -
>knowing what the rank insignia were, knowing how to properly go aboard and
>go onshore when afloat, and learning how to stay out of the way during GQ.
>We were on army bases often enough that we also knew what the rank insignia
>were for the doggies - but it may shock you to your core to know that
>neither I nor any Marine I recall could reliably identify USAF personnel by
>grade. Why bother? Are you going to take me to task for that? It was enough
>to know that the crewchief and the guys flying the plane (whether a C-130,
>C-141 or C-5) were senior to me - I've been on a number of USAF bases
>(mostly in NC) and I don't believe that I ever had to address an air force
>guy.
Speak only for yourself with that "neither I nor any Marine I recall".
Since before my day, enlisted Marines were expected to know the rank
insignia, enlisted and officer, of the other services. We didn't have
to know what the Navy rate insignia meant - but I and every other
Marine that *I* recall were pretty good with the ones you commonly saw
on ships - lotta dead time on a float, if for no other reason.
>We tried to spend as much of our time as possible doing Marine training, not
>boning up on whether a rear-admiral lower half wears a cummerbund in a given
>situation. Guess what? 90% of the time we didn't even know what the rates
>were - we just knew that this guy was a PO1, or this other guy was an MCPO.
>The latter being especially important info, since you never cross a chief.
>After a few floats you started realizing that there were things like
>boatswains and coxswains and machinist's mates and so on and so forth, but
>if you think that we could often figure out who was who by the nice little
>insignia, or actually even give a damn, you're sadly mistaken.
>Sorry to burst your bubble, Al. If you think that Marines should be
>concerned about minutiae like this, e-mail the CMC.
Sorry to burst yours, Arved. CMC expects his Marines to know the rank
structures and insignia of our sister services. If nothing else to
avoid situations where, e.g., some low-ranking other-service snuffie
tries to give a senior Marine NCO an order he has no business giving.
["Pick up those empty in-flight meal boxes". From an E-4 to a Gunny?.
The E-4 would be lucky to leave the aircraft under his own power.]
[Most SrAirman [E-4] or SSgt [E-5] USAF crew members I flew with knew
the right way to get that done - "Gunny, could you have your Marines
police up the meal boxes? We've got bags for them to put them in.
Thanks, Gunny."]
Arved Sandstrom
In actual fact so were we, as far as the Navy rates were concerned - it
usually took a float or two. Were we required to learn it? No. You simply
had to know what the ratings or ranks were, without being necessarily able
to pick out what the specific rate was.
We also knew Army ranks and insignia, for equally practical reasons. But I
can tell you that not many Marines when I was in would have been able to
properly address a USAF type. That's not to say that you don't recognise an
officer, and you can tell by the insignia when they are senior or maybe
senior - it doesn't mean that you know what they are called though.
Let me put this another way - take 100 enlisted guys from each of the USN,
USA, USAF and USCG, serving right now in 2004. A nice healthy mix -
everything from E-1's up through E-9's, with the numbers weighted by
percentage representation. Show them every USMC enlisted rank insignia there
is, and ask them to tell you what the ranks actually are. You think that the
majority of PFC's at Fort Benning, or the majority of Seamen at NAB
Littlecreek, are going to know the difference between a Master Sgt and a 1st
Sgt?
> >We tried to spend as much of our time as possible doing Marine training,
not
> >boning up on whether a rear-admiral lower half wears a cummerbund in a
given
> >situation. Guess what? 90% of the time we didn't even know what the rates
> >were - we just knew that this guy was a PO1, or this other guy was an
MCPO.
> >The latter being especially important info, since you never cross a
chief.
> >After a few floats you started realizing that there were things like
> >boatswains and coxswains and machinist's mates and so on and so forth,
but
> >if you think that we could often figure out who was who by the nice
little
> >insignia, or actually even give a damn, you're sadly mistaken.
>
> >Sorry to burst your bubble, Al. If you think that Marines should be
> >concerned about minutiae like this, e-mail the CMC.
>
> Sorry to burst yours, Arved. CMC expects his Marines to know the rank
> structures and insignia of our sister services.
I wish him luck. Things must have changed since the '80's and early '90's.
CMC can expect all he likes - doesn't mean it's going to happen.
> If nothing else to
> avoid situations where, e.g., some low-ranking other-service snuffie
> tries to give a senior Marine NCO an order he has no business giving.
> ["Pick up those empty in-flight meal boxes". From an E-4 to a Gunny?.
> The E-4 would be lucky to leave the aircraft under his own power.]
> [Most SrAirman [E-4] or SSgt [E-5] USAF crew members I flew with knew
> the right way to get that done - "Gunny, could you have your Marines
> police up the meal boxes? We've got bags for them to put them in.
> Thanks, Gunny."]
This is a bit different from what I was talking about. I wasn't suggesting
that people didn't know that the guy who you were interacting with was an
E-2, E-4 or E-7. It's just that you might not remember that the guy who
clearly outranks you is a Technical Sergeant.
As for your example, to a certain degree it would be a matter of
interservice courtesy for even a senior person of one branch to ask a junior
member of another branch to get something done, rather than issue an order.
I'm not talking about Gen Myers having to be deferential when telling a
Marine sergeant what to do, I'm talking about a Navy PO2 being a bit tactful
when addressing a Marine corporal and requesting that the corporal's section
or working party accomplish such-and-such a thing.
AHS
Howard Berkowitz
<asand...@accesswave.ca> wrote:
\
> Let me put this another way - take 100 enlisted guys from each of the
> USN,
> USA, USAF and USCG, serving right now in 2004. A nice healthy mix -
> everything from E-1's up through E-9's, with the numbers weighted by
> percentage representation. Show them every USMC enlisted rank insignia
> there
> is, and ask them to tell you what the ranks actually are. You think that
> the
> majority of PFC's at Fort Benning, or the majority of Seamen at NAB
> Littlecreek, are going to know the difference between a Master Sgt and a
> 1st
> Sgt?
And many of us have trouble telling apart a Marriott doorman and a
Bolivian admiral.
J.T. McDaniel
certainly will.
--
Jack
http://jtmcdaniel.com
http://www.fleetsubmarine.com
http://riverdaleebooks.com
Arved Sandstrom
news:dYmdnX26Iui...@comcast.com...
>
> "Arved Sandstrom" <asand...@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
> news:M0sLb.171$PK6....@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> > Let me put this another way - take 100 enlisted guys from each of the
USN,
> > USA, USAF and USCG, serving right now in 2004. A nice healthy mix -
> > everything from E-1's up through E-9's, with the numbers weighted by
> > percentage representation. Show them every USMC enlisted rank insignia
> there
> > is, and ask them to tell you what the ranks actually are. You think that
> the
> > majority of PFC's at Fort Benning, or the majority of Seamen at NAB
> > Littlecreek, are going to know the difference between a Master Sgt and a
> 1st
> > Sgt?
> >
> Don't know about the sailors, but the Army guys
> certainly will.
You sure about that? I didn't mean an army MSG and an army 1SG.
AHS
J.T. McDaniel
insignia for a Marine 1SG and an Army 1SG,
other than size and color, and the Marine
version has a solid diamond? As for MSG,
three up and three down, and one service
has crossed rifles and the other doesn't.
Now if you're suggesting they might not be
able to tell which one is a Gunnery Sergeant,
you might have a point, since the names are
different for an E-7, and the young soldier
might not know it's equivalent to an SFC.
Air Force rank, OTOH...
--
Jack
http://jtmcdaniel.com
http://riverdaleebooks.com
http://www.fleetsubmarine.com
Arved Sandstrom
[ SNIP ]
> Now if you're suggesting they might not be
> able to tell which one is a Gunnery Sergeant,
> you might have a point, since the names are
> different for an E-7, and the young soldier
> might not know it's equivalent to an SFC.
My point exactly.
AHS