Russian General Staff: NATO warships will enter Black Sea in August
Earl
several NATO warships from US, Canada and Poland will enter Black Sea
before August's end. NATO has already requested Turkish permission to
pass this fleet over Bosporus.
deem...@aol.com
Just wondering what the Russians consider the Turkish,
Romanian, and Bulgarian naval forces?
Jack Linthicum
TJ
This will be as part of Operation SEXTANT. This is an anti-terrorism
training exercise.
http://www.dnd.ca/site/Community/MapleLeaf/article_e.asp?id=4588
http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/cms_operations/operations_e.asp?category=15&id=670
TJ
Ed Rasimus
wrote:
Many nations have Black Sea coasts. Some of them are in NATO. Just as
Russian (and previously Soviet) ships transited the Bosporus and
sailed into the Med, so also other nation's ships enter the Black Sea.
Some of those ships are warships.
The exercise of passage rights has been going on for decades. No news
in any of this.
But, wait, maybe Sen. Obama hadn't heard this before.
Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
www.thundertales.blogspot.com
www.thunderchief.org
tankfixer
So ?
--
Meddle ye not in the Affairs of Dragons, for Thou art Crunchy and taste
Goode with Ketchup.
tankfixer
8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, jackli...@earthlink.net says...
> On Aug 19, 12:56 pm, "deemsb...@aol.com" <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 19, 8:38 am, Earl <ne...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> >
> > > As Russian MOD spokesman announced today Russia has informations that
> > > several NATO warships from US, Canada and Poland will enter Black Sea
> > > before August's end. NATO has already requested Turkish permission to
> > > pass this fleet over Bosporus.
> >
> > >http://www.interfax.ru/news.asp?id=28003
> >
> > Just wondering what the Russians consider the Turkish,
> > Romanian, and Bulgarian naval forces?
>
> Black Sea ships
It's not their lake.
The Russians will just have to live with it.
>
> http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3821440
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2064219/posts
> http://news.trendaz.com/index.shtml?show=news&newsid=1273813&lang=EN
>
--
Ian B MacLure
> As Russian MOD spokesman announced today Russia has informations that
> several NATO warships from US, Canada and Poland will enter Black Sea
> before August's end. NATO has already requested Turkish permission to
> pass this fleet over Bosporus.
STANAVFORBLACK.
Give the Rooskies something to think about.
Particularly if the Ukranian gummint decides to
allow them to dock at the soon-to-be-former Rooskie
naval station at Sevastopol.
IBM
korben dallas
>
> STANAVFORBLACK.
> Give the Rooskies something to think about.
> Particularly if the Ukranian gummint decides to
> allow them to dock at the soon-to-be-former Rooskie
> naval station at Sevastopol.
>
lol...
firstly, it is, of course, russians who allow or disallow anything in
sebastopol. so, unless those guest ships enjoy docking in direct contact
with the bottom of the sea in the area, they'll have to keep the very
good distance. and they will, i can guarantee you that :)
secondly, who's "soon to be former" is that current ukrainian president,
as we all know. his games with usa and nato, apparently, didn't receive
too much admiration among ukraininan people. he's lucky he didn't dig
himself into any hole georgia-style. the russian ownership of sebastopol
is not going to end on our lifetime, that i can promise you already :)
arereat
> In article <g8ees8$v3d$1...@news.mixmin.net>, ne...@nowhere.net says...
>> As Russian MOD spokesman announced today Russia has informations that
>> several NATO warships from US, Canada and Poland will enter Black Sea
>> before August's end. NATO has already requested Turkish permission to
>> pass this fleet over Bosporus.
>>
>>
>> http://www.interfax.ru/news.asp?id=28003
>>
>
> So ?
>
>
Concerns over the military tensions in the region may already have
influenced some neighbors. American officials said Turkish officials had
denied the United States’ request that an American Navy hospital ship,
the Comfort, be allowed to travel through the Turkish straits en route
to Georgia. A Bush administration official, who asked not to be
identified because of the delicacy of the diplomatic discussions,
expressed hope that American officials would eventually persuade the
Turks to let the ship pass.
buff82driver
> Ian B MacLure wrote:
>
> > STANAVFORBLACK.
> > Give the Rooskies something to think about.
> > Particularly if the Ukranian gummint decides to
> > allow them to dock at the soon-to-be-former Rooskie
> > naval station at Sevastopol.
>
> lol...
>
> firstly, it is, of course, russians who allow or disallow anything in
> sebastopol. so, unless those guest ships enjoy docking in direct contact
> with the bottom of the sea in the area, they'll have to keep the very
> good distance. and they will, i can guarantee you that :)
>
Taking on Georgia's
navy is one thing the U.S.N. is quite another can of worms.
> secondly, who's "soon to be former" is that current ukrainian president,
> as we all know. his games with usa and nato, apparently, didn't receive
> too much admiration among ukraininan people. he's lucky he didn't dig
> himself into any hole georgia-style. the russian ownership of sebastopol
> is not going to end on our lifetime, that i can promise you already :)
on kicking Russia to
the curb the other year? Seems to me that most the people of Ukraine
want to be with the West
and not Russia.
Ken S. Tucker
Currently Russia is the worlds greatest superpower,
what's important however, is using our influence to
settle the problem to create the best future, with the
least damage.
Russia and West have too much in common to let
this incident fracture us.
I think the US over-played placing missiles in Poland,
for strange ideas, what's next, how would the US
react if canux allowed a Russian missile base in
Manitoba, because we need to protect Vancouver
from North Korean missiles and the Ruskies were
the lowest bidder for that ABM system?
Ken
buff82driver
blue water navy? Modern/heavily upgraded intercontinental
bombers? Professional infantry? How are they a superpower?
> Currently Russia is the worlds greatest superpower,
> what's important however, is using our influence to
> settle the problem to create the best future, with the
> least damage.
> Russia and West have too much in common to let
> this incident fracture us.
> I think the US over-played placing missiles in Poland,
> for strange ideas, what's next, how would the US
> react if canux allowed a Russian missile base in
> Manitoba, because we need to protect Vancouver
> from North Korean missiles and the Ruskies were
> the lowest bidder for that ABM system?
> Ken
missiles are to defend against and thats Iran but perhaps they could
help out in a "spiff" with Russia but I doubt that. Russia has far to
many missiles
to be stopped by this shield and it may be easier to sneak in a bomber
undetected. If we
really wanted to neuter Russia we would use the Cold War era idea/
system? of using space based lasers
and Brilliant Pebbles. Using ground based missiles for the foundation
of BMD never will make sense. Using SAMs
for terminal defense and as a backup for space based defenses is ok
but as the primary shield is and always will be
cost-prohibitive.
Ken S. Tucker
I think the good spirit of the Gorby-Reagan INF deal
was to minimize military systems in East Europe,
and that should stand. If the EU thinks it needs
an ABM system then they should talk to Russia
about it. It's a grand strategy outlook that the US
needs to formulate and use.
Ken
Ken S. Tucker
Ian B MacLure
news:ccf092a4-328d-4d28...@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com:
[snip]
> Currently Russia is the worlds greatest superpower,
> what's important however, is using our influence to
> settle the problem to create the best future, with the
> least damage.
So, are you calling for "Peace In Our Time"?
Evidently you've forgotten how well that turned
out last time.
And as to buying Rooskie missiles to defend Kanuckistan,
ya might want to talk to the Syrians about the effective-
ness of Ruskie AD gear. Besides which why would you want
to defend Vancouver anyway?
IBM
Ken S. Tucker
Read this...
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/transcript1.html
Render an opinion.
Ken
TJ
Ian, You are only relying on media hype in relation to Syrian air
defences. A simple airstrike taking the path of least resistance to an
undefended target in the Syrian desert. Part of that path of least
resistance took it through and skirted Turkish airspace. In reality no
modern Russian air defence systems to be defeated. It was the likes of
Debka that gave the Syrians Pantsyrs and other modern systems. The
Syrians simply took the gamble of leaving the site unprotected. If the
Syrians had deployed air defence systems around this site it would
have brought attention to it from SIGINT/ELINT systems. Even putting
layered security fences around it would have sparked interest from
imagery analysis.The Syrians simply took the gamble and lost.
Comments and analysis from a serving U.S. intel analyst. All info open
source.
http://geimint.blogspot.com/search/label/Syria
TJ
Peter A. Stoll
> As Russian MOD spokesman announced today Russia has informations that
> several NATO warships from US, Canada and Poland will enter Black Sea
> before August's end.
New news today, (to me at least) of a three US ships, of which two leaving
Crete Thursday (today), listed as:
USS Mount Whitney
USS McFaul
Coast Guard Cutter Dallas
The Mount Whitney is Blue Ridge Class amphibious warfare ship currently
fitted as a command ship and serving as Sixth Fleet flagship.
McFaul is an Arleigh Burke destroyer.
Dallas (WHEC-716) is a Hamilton-class (large, long-endurance) cutter
I'm no Montreux expert, but think I read in the text recently a limit of
15,000 tons for a given movement in the restricted waters at once. As
various references to Mount Whitney list her at 18,000 tons and the other
two at 6600 and 2700 this would seem to pose some difficulties.
After I wrote the above, I looked around a little more, and saw than CNN
says that the McFaul and Dallas movement is relying on prior Turkish
permission related to the previously scheduled exercise.
I report in The Hindu says that McFaul left Souda Bay, Crete on Wednesday,
Dallas is to leave there Friday, and Mount Whitney is to leave its base of
Gaeta, Italy, giving as source a public affairs officer at Souda Bay, and
also says that the US State Department said on Wednesday that Turkish
permission had been granted.
buff82driver
statement given the less than stellar performance of Russian made air
defense hardware. There is more to evading SAMs than anti-radiation
missiles and skirting the boundaries of coverage. What about decoys,
chaff, flares, ECM, ACM, missiles... If its an intergraded air defense
you might be able to hack into the defense net and shut it down in
unconventional ways. If it communicates over a comm-link that may be
more probable than if they used buried lines but then what if you find
out about those lines running all over your enemies country and manage
to cut them. That amazing intergraded air defense is moot as it is no
more. I'll put far more stock in U.S. hardware defeating Russian
hardware than the other way around. The U.S. has lots of experience
dealing with so called great Russian air defense hardware. We have the
technological edge over Russia.
TJ
> No modern Russian air defense can be defeated? Thats a very bold
> statement given the less than stellar performance of Russian made air
> defense hardware. There is more to evading SAMs than anti-radiation
> missiles and skirting the boundaries of coverage. What about decoys,
> chaff, flares, ECM, ACM, missiles... If its an intergraded air defense
> you might be able to hack into the defense net and shut it down in
> unconventional ways. If it communicates over a comm-link that may be
> more probable than if they used buried lines but then what if you find
> out about those lines running all over your enemies country and manage
> to cut them. That amazing intergraded air defense is moot as it is no
> more. I'll put far more stock in U.S. hardware defeating Russian
> hardware than the other way around. The U.S. has lots of experience
> dealing with so called great Russian air defense hardware. We have the
> technological edge over Russia.
Who said that they couldn't be defeated? For the Israelis it was easy
for them to take the path
of least resistance. To see the media hype the Israelis might as well
have been doing barrel rolls over
Damascus on both ingress and egress. The F-15 fuel tanks were
jettisoned over Turkish territory. Put yourself in
the shoes of an Israeli mission planner. Years of Israeli aircraft
with tanker support going north to utilise Turkish bombing ranges.
Such routine patterns simply lull Syria into complacency and they take
their eye off the ball. The Israeli's simpy exploit a weakness in the
Syrian defences using Turkish airspace to get to an undefended target.
No requirement for large strike packages or dedicated jamming support.
Before the Syrians get a chance to react, or realise what is going on,
the building is plinked and the F-15s are back out over the Med having
used Turkish airspace to make good their escape. No need to go through
the main Syrian IADS and stir up a hornets nest.
TJ